Hey everybody, thanks for tuning into this episode of navigate. Some of my favorite people out there are pastors and other church based ministry leaders. And it's because of them their leadership and their global vision that makes it possible for me and many of my listeners out there to serve as global workers. My wife and I are indebted to many of these faithful visionary
leaders. A few weeks ago, I drove down Highway 50, from our home in the Sierra Nevada Mountains to the Assemblies of God district office located in Sacramento. I did this in order to have a conversation with a guy named Brett Allen. And what you'll, what you'll be listening to today is part one of that interview, Brett was elected to serve as a district superintendent of the Northern California Nevada Assemblies of
God in April 2016. As district superintendent, he provides leadership to the 1500 plus ministers, and 450 churches within Northern California and Nevada. Prior to this, Brett served as senior pastor of Bethel Church in San Jose, California. He's also been a youth pastor, missionary leadership coast, leadership coach, district, youth director and author, one of Brett's greatest passions is investing into leaders of all generations
styles and backgrounds. His personal mission is to provide leadership by serving a community of believers who desire to impact their city and influence their world. So glad you dropped in. And here's part one of my conversation with Pastor Brett Allen. Thanks for joining me today. Brett, I really appreciate you being being with me and being willing to share your insight, but to do this podcast to do it. So we're gonna be talking about, I mean, we always talk about some aspect of transition on
this podcast. And it's always fun to get different, see it from different angles, different perspectives. And we're just going to kind of start maybe looking at transition in terms of preparing for handing off the baton succession, those kinds of areas of transition, because I know you have done quite a bit of that in your life and work. So let me just ask you this, what would be two or three most challenging ministry tant transitions that you've navigated? And what what makes those stand out?
Well, for me, that one of the great transitional challenges when is when Valerie and I moved to Mexico, and we worked on an orphanage, there were a lot of challenges there with language, there are a lot of challenges there with new location, new food, new customs, not being known by anybody who was there, that was a difficult transition, then the transition that was more difficult than that was once Mexico became home and coming back to the United States and taking a youth
ministry position. And being exactly two full years out of the development of the youth culture and trying to get back to the helm of it. That was a big transition. It's a big transition going from being a district youth director to being a senior pastor of a large church in in San Jose, that was a challenge. And this one is, is had its own set of challenges stepping into the leadership role of 450 churches across two
states. So the thing though, I think that makes transition, always the most challenging. Beyond location and beyond food and beyond language, is people. There's the the problems, always focus on people. You walk into a setting, you walk into a new situation, you're excited about the opportunity that God's given you, but the people you're leading may not be excited at all about the change. And so the transition is where the rubber meets the road is always in the
interpersonal aspect of it. When I came here to be the district superintendent. My very first day, I brought two of my former pastors, john Lugo and Paul Gottlieb. And I assembled the
staff. And I left those two men in the room with the entirety of the district, office staff, and I left the room and the instructions were, you have two hours to ask these people, anything that you want about me, they will not report back to me, they're not gonna say anything to me about the questions that you asked or the comments that you made or the concerns that you share. These people have worked with me for many years, and they know me, and so they know my strengths and they know
my weaknesses. And they know the good side of me and the bad side of me, and they're here to help educate you so you can be at ease when I show up. And it was it was several days before I showed up here in an official capacity that we made. We made that available. That was a very, very helpful thing. For the people in this office to put them at ease, because they did get to ask a lot of questions
about me. So, for me, that the difficulty whether it's a church admissions assignment, a district office assignment, it's always it's always boiled down to the difficulty of trying to transition relationally relationally.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. And what are some Life and Leadership lessons you've learned related to transitioning?
When the children of Israel cross the Jordan, the first thing that God did for them, was stopped the manna, the manna ceased. And the Lord said to them, you're going to feed yourself off the land. And there's a truth about transition
in there. That when you transition, and you move from this to this, there is a heavy, heavy expectation from the Lord, that you're going to care for yourself, that you're going to feed yourself yourself, the man is going to stop some of these provisionary things are going to stop, and there's going to be some extra responsibility on you to take care of yourself. The children of Israel succeeded in
doing that. But there I like the principle that when you crossover and you're going to do something new, there's going to be some new area of responsibility and, and burden put on you for self care. When we leave something, we typically leave a wonderful support group, we typically leave a group of people that love us, and they understand our sense of humor, and they pray for us, and they care about us. And if they don't see us for a couple of days, they call and check on us, and
we're well cared for. And then all of a sudden, you step into a situation where it's not like that people don't know you very well, and they're not checking on you, they're checking you out, instead of checking in on you. Yeah, and there is just, there's a wonderful truth there that you're going to need to you're going to need to take some extra care of self until the rest of those things start
to kick in. Another really profound leadership principle, I believe is, I was told once that the way you come in, will not be remembered as much as how you go out. And immediate immediately, immediately, when you arrive at a new assignment, you're beginning to determine what your exit is like on your first day, your second day, your third day, you're beginning to lay track on how this thing is going to go
and how it's going to end. And whether that's intentionally or not intentionally, that's exactly right, you're doing it. And when you get someplace and you followed a very weak leader, or you followed a very strong leader, in six months that leaders momentum is done, the negative momentum is done, or the positive momentum is done. And at the end of six months, whatever is happening is on you.
That's that's all you. So your first day, your second day, those are those are big days, to setting a tone, and what's going to be happening for the 10 years or the 15 years or the nine years that you're going to be someplace. All all of that matters and the start. I read a book one time it was called you're in charge. Now what and the premise of the book is planning out your first 100
days. Because that first 100 days is what establishes you it's it's what makes you or breaks you and the practices of a first 100 days. For me, in the pastor that I had in San Jose, those practices in the first 100 days, the things I purposed to do in the first 100 days, they they became earmarks of the ministry the whole time I was in San Jose. The same thing is true
here. That the things that we talked about, and that we that we put into action in the first 100 days and my superintendency are very much earmarks right now. So the start of this thing is super, super important. And what's interesting is lots and lots of times people go in and they make grave errors and the first 100 days they make huge mistakes, they make huge overreach they make unbelievable
assumption. And then six months in eight months in, they're trying to reel it all back and they're trying to reestablish and trying to redo it's so much easier than when you're in the middle of a transition to come in and take care of your first 100 days with great wisdom and to have your days planned out for 100 days what you're going to do for your first 100 days so that it is thought about it is prayed about and you are following a game plan that you in the Lord or involvement
instead of coming in and just read Acting to everything that happens in the first 100 days and then trying to reel it back, your transition in and your transition out can be completely make or break in the first 100 days.
So, where did you learn some of those do's and don'ts for the first 100 days? How did you how did you absorb some of that in previous ministry experience watching reading learning? What are some things that you did?
Well, it's been said that if you learn from your mistakes, you're smart. Yeah, but if you learn from other people's mistakes, you're wise. Yeah. And I have really watched a lot of transition in my life. My dad's a senior pastor, I watched people follow my father. And I watched some things done very well. I have watched some things done very badly. I've learned some lessons that way, I have followed some people that I watched the way they left and I
learned some lessons. To me, it's I think I've learned some of the some of the key principles. Part from reading part from having a dad that's been an incredible mentor in my life. But for me, ministry, as people in ministry moves at the pace of relationship. So your first, your first transitional point in first days, the principles that guide my life, you're investing that heavily in people in that program. The program is not sacred, the
program. The programs are interchangeable, they come and they go, the people are what sacred the people are, what matter the people are what's
going to endure. So the the people in your in all of my transitions, I don't care if we're sitting on chairs appears, I don't care if the choir is wearing ropes, I don't care what color the carpet is, I don't, there's so many things that need to be established interpersonally, that once the interpersonal is done well, then a lot of those other secondary tertiary issue types, things can change very, very easily.
I hear you saying, kind of put the pet peeves aside for the time being, and focus on the relationship.
And if some is driving you nuts, write it down, write it down and put it in a folder, things that need to change, I had to things that need to change folder in most of the assignments that I've had, but they do not Trump me coming in and having good quality relationship with somebody. And having a good sir. You know, if you're a pastor, and you go to a church, go to that church and fall in love with that church and fall in love with that community. I'm married, I've been married just about 38
years. And when I said to Valerie, I love you. She said, I love you. She didn't say to me, I think I could love you. But you need to change this and this and this and this. And then I know I can love you. And a lot of ministers go to assignments with a hit list of things that must change in that assignment. Before that they can declare their love for that church or that congregation or that mission field, or whatever it
is. I think we have an obligation to go in and fall in love with the church, fall in love with the mission field, fall in love with the people and get to know them and ask some questions like, why do you do that? What Why has it been done like that? What's the purpose? Why is that there? And what's the reasoning? What was the rationale right there, there usually is a reason there
usually is a rationale. And if all you're doing is taking your preference and exercising your preference and doing things based on preference, you're going to hurt somebody, you're going to bruise a relationship. And you just don't have enough relational coin in the bank to be burning those bridges, right. 30 days in 10 days in 28 days in you just can't do it can't do it. Yeah.
Yeah. So would that go for? So that would not only go for a lead pastor who's coming in as the leader, senior pastor, but it would also go for someone on staff, I'm assuming absolutely same principles involved.
Anybody that's leading people, if you're the head of the facilities team, and there are six people answering to you the same principles. They still apply. If you're a Sunday school teacher, and you're replacing somebody has been teaching that Sunday school class for 30 years, and they've retired and you're coming in and you're taking over that class,
the same principles apply. When I came to work here at the district Resource Center for Northern California, Nevada, we have had a long term practice of putting portraits of the executive officers on a wall right out here you walk by that wall on your way into my office today. And in one of my very first meetings with Dr. Sam Huddleston and Dr. J. Herndon.
Dr. Jay said, Pastor, we need you to go down and get your portrait taken so that we can put it up it was a big hole on the wall were brother Bradley's picture have been taken down. And I asked a question. I said, Why do we do that? They said, we've just always done that. And I said, Okay, why is it important? Why is it important to you guys? And so we talked about it. And Sam said, Let me make this easy. You got something on your mind? What is
it? And I said, I was just wondering, that's valuable space. People walk by that all day, every day. Is there anything different we could be doing there? They said, What are your thoughts? I said, I thought that we could take our pictures down, and we could put pictures of pastors up there, and remind everybody, that's why we're here
is to build pastors. Now, that whole entire process, that whole entire conversation moved us, it made a a philosophical shift of this building, that it wasn't about portraits, it was about pictures of pastors in action. And it helps us keep our eye on the mission of the district building. But it was done through question. It was done
through inquiry, right. And it was done with an essence of, of humility, instead of the directive and an order, I was more than happy to have that conversation for the next couple, three months before I had a portrait, this matter of fact, is still having a portrait taken. So to me, it's not as important to my picture is on that wall as the pictures of pastors. But in that, I was able to move myself down the road, both relationally with both Dr.
Sam and Dr. Jay. As, we worked on something together, that we now we're all three are very proud of right. But it was done in a relationally affirming and building manner.
That's great. And yeah, that goes back to the relationships. I mean, just the fact that you, you mentioned putting pastors, you know, portraits on the wall is, that's what you're here for. That's what you're here to build. Right. And I love that approach. You know, one of those areas of transition that we don't always want to talk about is the succession planning, or handing off the baton. Those big handoffs in life and ministry that we do, though, that we need to do that, those pivotal points
that we come to. Why, in your opinion, is having and implementing a succession plan, an important piece of navigating successful transitions?
Well, without it, the stress you put on the organization is intense. Asking the organization to start all over again, every time a new leader comes in new vision, new new philosophies on finance and counseling in days off, and all the philosophy that gets put into the life and in the body of an organization, all of a sudden to have it pulled out. And all
new ones, right? It, it's so hard to transplant a heart and an individual, it's so hard to transplant a heart in a ministry to to pull it out and to say, Okay, now accept this new heart. And that's going to be the way it is from now on. It's very difficult. It's very, very traumatic. So the better that you can do with succession, the better you can do at hand in batanes. To to in a succession plan, the better off you are. I was a district youth director
here for five years. During those five years as a young man on my advisory board the entirety of that time, named as Daniel, a Daniels, a pastor here in Sacramento, Trinity Life Center, he succeeded me. And five years he worked with me and then seven years, he became the district youth director in this spirit, and the flavor of it was exactly the same, even though he was many years younger than I am. I'm about 16 years older
than eight. And the description of my leadership to age leadership was Brett was a father figure where he is the older brother. But please notice, it's still got family, family, right you notation. There's, it was more of the same spirit, even though there was a 16 year difference in age, the continuity still stayed there. And what a benefit to something that had good forward momentum with the youth pastors in the development of the youth pastors. Pastor, he was able to
carry on. I think one of the interesting things about this whole idea about succession. The reason we don't talk about it very much is because we just don't do it very well. And the reason that it doesn't happen very well is because it can't just Be the pastor that thinks that or the leader or the head missionary, or, or whoever that thinks it's important. It has to be thought important by all
levels of the organization. If I can talk about church for just a minute, yeah, in a church, we're in a, we're in a congregational form of governance, and that church has to vote on the new pastor. Well to take a succession plan can never override the will of the people voting in a new senior pastor, the senior pastor doesn't get to say, that's, that's not going to happen, I'm appointing my
successor. So what has to happen is that this succession plan has to be normalized in all spat aspects of the life of the church, the board, the pastoral staff, the congregation, everybody has to be able to see it, yeah, is a valuable thing, which means we're communicating it prior to six months before the pastor's leaving, right, it's got to become part of the whole entire makeup of the organization to say, we are elevating, raising, appreciating, developing and promoting young ministers on
this staff. And we're watching them grow from this position to this position to this position. And pretty soon, it just becomes a part that we're used to seeing pastors move and grow and be promoted and be appreciated and being given incredible opportunities. That out of that lots and lots of staff pastors aren't given. Now, if if an organization runs that way, then
it's going to be normalized. If it isn't run that way, then you're going to every six to eight years, every 10 years, whatever it is, you're going to get in a heart transplant. And and every time that happens, the church goes into traumatic turmoil, and you'll lose a lot of people and then you have to get a whole bunch of new people. And everything gets disrupted for usually about two years. Yeah, it takes to work its way
through that. And if that pastor then leaves at the end of a turbulent two years, then the churches now the church has taken a step back.
I love what you're saying. It's an intentional process. Like you said, it's not making some formal announcement necessarily, but it's just communicating that, that philosophy of ministry, philosophy and intentionality behind that of preparing the next generation, at some point, there has to be a formal, you know, all the formalities do have to take
place. But but right at first, it just on all levels, like you're saying, and what if it doesn't happen, like you said, There creates this, this huge hole.
All churches have vision statements, right? So we started writing books in the 80s, that we all need to have vision statements. So now every church has a vision statement. Not all churches are run by vision. Just because you have a vision statement doesn't mean that your run by vision, being run by vision means that you
have a vision statement. And when you're putting something on the calendar, you say, does that does that further our vision, when you're doing your budgeting process, in a church or in a ministry, that is a vision exercise, because you're only spending dollars on things that promote the vision, you're hiring people in accordance to the vision, right, you're training your people leadership skills and talents based on the vision. So the vision becomes the directing force of dollars
and calendar and personnel. Now, just because you have that printed on your bulletin, or a tongue on the wall, or it's on a piece of paper in a manila folder in your desk, doesn't mean that you're a vision driven ministry. And it's the same exact thing. We've got churches that have a vision, but they're not vision driven. We have churches that want to talk about succession, but it isn't permeated the the whole of that church. And so for that reason, it's not going to be successful.
Okay. So what would you say to a pastor, maybe they've come to that reali ation that it needs to be ore than just something on a pi ce of paper that actually ne ds to be implemented some kin of succession strategy, let s say, rather than an, you k ow, an announcement or but t ere's some kind of strategy mo ing forward. So that pastor nows I'm not going to be here
forever. I may have five more ears, I may have 10 more years But what would you say to to a pastoral pastor in that situat on who, or missionary minutes inistry leaders in gene al who are in that kind of s tuation would say, where do I start? Where do I begin? Who' the first kind of go-to in thi ?
I think you start with lunch. And you start with lunch with the people who work with you one on one. I took every one of my pastors out to lunch one on one. And I said to them, where do you see yourself in five years? And from those meetings, Tim, I was able to hone in on three or four people that I saw as very keen opportunities for me to see as a successor. There were some of them that said, What? Where do you see yourself in five years?
Well, not here. I don't see myself still being here in five years, I see myself doing this or doing that. Okay, well, that's fine. And the other reason I want to ask that is because he gave some to be pastors to equip God's people for works of service, If you ha e a call to missions, I want to ork very hard to helping you
ecome a missionary. If you w nt to be an evangelist, if you w nt to be a school teacher, I wa t to help you get from where y u are today to what it is that y u feel God's calling you to do. And if you're saying to me, I want to be senior pastor in church, then I have a respon ibility to start dumping a lot f resource from myself into a y ung staff guide and make sure hat they are able to hit that
goal. You know, those staff me bers are not there to serve m , they're there to serve the L rd and I have an opportunity, I have a window of opportunit to to make an investment in the , to help them become what it s that God's called them to be. Yeah, so if I have a young man on my staff, and he says, really want to be a senior astor one day, I don't care wh t his current position is, is a youth pastor or college pa tor, he works on the mainten nce team, he needs to be inves
ed in. I really believe that hen I was a senior pastor, that y number one responsibility w s the investment into my s aff. If you put if you put a hea y emphasis on your staff, and y ur staff are elevated in thei abilities to lead and problem olve and deal with, with cong egate congregational issue , all of a sudden, your effecti eness is multiplied many, man
, many times over. So I wou d invest heavily in the staff But part of my monthly object ve with every one of my staf was working on where the wanted to go, not what I neede them to do. And so I think a l of us that have had the pr vilege of having people work f r us. Those people have every ri ht to know that I'm not trying o just get 40 hours out of you his week, I am trying my very be t to get you in a position wh re you are being trained and eq ipped to be able to do what it i
God's called you to do. We do leadership training ere every month, once a month, I get together with this e tire staff, and we spend time on a Tuesday morning for everybod . It doesn't matter what he position is that you hold in he District Resource Center, you come to that meeting, and it is my effort and it's my t me to invest in you leader hip principles to better you toward what it is that God' called you to be.
That's good. You can learn more about pastor Brett and what he does at Brett L. Allen calm and be on the lookout for part two, as Brett shares more about navigating successful ministry transitions. How do you start Well, how do you leave well? How can I best honor relationships through this challenging transition? These might be questions that have come up for you as you've
listened to this podcast. A leadership coach is someone who comes alongside you in your journey to help you process change and see the big picture. To learn more book a discovery call with me at encompass life coaching comm if you're interested to learn how working with a coach can help you get unstuck and grow during this time of transition. Thanks for joining me today for this episode of navigate podcast and I've been your host Tim Austin.
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