Tim Austin (00:03):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Navigate, everybody, on a beautiful day in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California where most of the smoke is cleared and we are enjoying near perfect temps. I'm Tim Austin, owner and coach at encompasslifecoaching.com. And I'm also the host of this show.
Tim Austin (00:22):
Have you ever wondered what is the difference between something like life coaching and spiritual direction? Are they forms of counseling, or something different? What are the differences? How do I decide what I need, and what is best for me in this season of life? Well, you're in for a real treat today as I have a conversation with Amy Young, founder of Global Trellis, Lane Arnold, a life coach and spiritual director, Lori Ferrell, also a spiritual director, and Katie Brown, a professional counselor. And I'm going to let them tell you more about themselves, and what they do. But, just to say that these are gifted experts in their fields. And what a privilege to have them all on the show together. So listen in as we have a five way conversation about counseling, coaching, and spiritual direction.
Tim Austin (01:11):
All right. Hey, Amy, and Lori, and Lane, and Katie. Thank you for joining me today to talk about coaching, counseling, and spiritual direction. I'm excited that each one of you has agreed to join me on this show. I think we're going to have a great conversation.
Amy Young (01:29):
Thank you for inviting all of us. We're excited to be here, Tim. This is Amy speaking since some of you don't know my voice.
Tim Austin (01:34):
Hi, Amy. So, we have Amy Young, Lane Arnold, Lori Ferrell, and Katie Brown joining me today. Yeah. And we're going to talk about some of the distinctives about coaching, and counseling, and spiritual direction. And how those are unique and different from each other, how they compliment each other. And we're just going to share this time together because each one has a unique space in this ministry of supporting those who are journeying with God and want some support around that, want some partnership around that.
Tim Austin (02:11):
So I'll start with you, Amy. Give our listeners a brief sketch of who you are and what you do as a resource. You tell me what you do because you do a lot. But, you're the founder of Global Trellis. So, we'll start with that. And I'll let you fill in the blanks.
Amy Young (02:29):
I was going to say for the sake of this conversation just focus it on Global Trellis. But, a lot of you know that Global Trellis, just like a trellis, exists in the back of a garden to support the growth and help a plant be all that it can be, that is what Global Trellis does. And part of Global Trellis is having specialists that none of us are experts in any one area. So, inviting people where it is an area that they've gotten additional training, they're interested in. And so, the four of you are actually specialists for Global Trellis. One, a couch, two of you're spiritual directors, and one, a counselor.
Amy Young (03:04):
And so, I'm just interested in this conversation to help people, to help me also understand, where do they compliment each other, where are they different, and what would be good resources for people. So, that's why I'm here.
Tim Austin (03:17):
Great. Yeah. And we're glad you're here, Amy. And we're... As one who has joined the Global Trellis team and has been part of this collaboration just so thankful for you spear heading this and bringing us together. So how about Lori, let's go to you next. Tell us who you are and what you do a little bit.
Lori Ferrell (03:42):
Hi, I'm Lori. My husband and I have been living in Southeast Asia for about a decade plus. And I became a spiritual director in 2018 after meeting with one for several years, and learning what it was as I was meeting with someone. And we'll go into more of that, I'm sure, in this conversation. But Lane and I are both in this podcast today together as spiritual directors, so we might have some similar things to offer. And yet, we might use different language. I think spiritual direction is one of the most complicated of these three to explain. And it took me studying to be able to have words to even begin to say what I do. But, I'd say companion, spiritual companion, is a word I like to use. Because direction tends to assume that we direct. But, companion gives a different image of someone coming alongside in the spiritual journey, and seeing the Holy Spirit as the director.
Tim Austin (04:48):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lori Ferrell (04:48):
So, I think I like to see that as a way of how I see my role as coming alongside people in their spiritual journey.
Tim Austin (04:56):
Great. Thanks, Lori. Yeah. Okay. How about you, Katie?
Katie Brown (05:00):
Hey. So, I am a wife and a mom of three little ones. I do a little bit of writing on the side. And I'm a professional counselor. So, I've been working counseling for 14 years. I've done a variety of different things, worked overseas and worked with all kinds of different populations in mental health centers, and private practice, and group practice settings. And for the past, probably, five or six years my primary focus has been grief and loss. I do some other work as well. But, that's really where my heart is primarily at this point with counseling.
Tim Austin (05:37):
Great. Thanks, Katie. Okay. Lane, how about you?
Lane Arnold (05:40):
I'm Lane Arnold. And I live in Savannah, Georgia currently, but lived in Colorado for many decades. And I am a writer, a mother, a grandmother. I'm also a spiritual director and a life coach along with being a writing coach and an editor. So, I wear several hats. I'm a former teacher. I'm a former pastor's former wife. So, I've had lots of suffering in my life along with lots of joy in my life. And through my own inner healing, I'm come to know about spiritual direction, went to seminary and loved working and walking with women who want to go deeper with God. I really see spiritual direction as being how do we move through the story of God within our own story. And what are His movements. So, that's what I'm really looking for and enjoying when I meet with women as I come alongside them a lot like Lori said.
Tim Austin (06:43):
Great. Thanks, Lane. And I guess I'll just say a bit about myself, too. I'm Tim Austin and I'm the host of this show, but I'm also a global worker who has served in Central Asia for about 16 years with my family. And then I moved to Turkey, and were there for about three years. But now we're based in Northern California, and both my wife and I still love to come alongside global workers and ministry leaders, myself as a coach. And so as a coach, I specialize in transitions coaching and leadership coaching. So that's where I love to do my work. And that's the space, I guess you could say, where I love to do most of my work. Yeah.
Tim Austin (07:30):
So, great. We've had a little bit of introduction here. So, now we're going to get into unpacking this a little bit. And I think, Lane, I'll go ahead and start with you. From your experience, how do you see these three callings, approaches to soul care, coaching, counseling, and spiritual direction. How do you see them working together to help global workers both thrive on and off the field. And we can expand that to not only global workers, but ministry leaders and those who are believers in the marketplace who need support. Whatever that could look like in terms of your client base and who you work with. But, how do you see those areas coming together, and complimenting each other, and working together?
Lane Arnold (08:19):
Well, I think the beauty of all three of these professions is that they really are going about looking at the heart and the soul care of each individual. And so in that regard, there's much overlap in many ways. There's some differences, certainly, between them which we've alluded to. But, I think at each one of these we're looking at transformation. We're looking at transition. We're looking at trauma. Each role, whether it's a counselor, a life coach, or a spiritual director, has different components for what part of the person is being addressed and what season the person's going through. I think that it's really helpful when we're on the field or off the field to know that somebody else is coming alongside us and supporting us. Because quite often as leaders, we are pouring out. But, we need places to be poured into.
Tim Austin (09:19):
Great. Thanks, Lane. Would anybody else like to add to that, expand on that a little bit? Or have your own perspective?
Katie Brown (09:26):
Sure. This is Katie.
Tim Austin (09:27):
Hi, Katie.
Katie Brown (09:29):
Hi. From a counseling perspective, I think... And actually, I love what Lane said. I just have to say that out loud. But, I think that she's so right. And as global workers in particular, I think that... and actually for everyone, honestly, that there's an element of feeling like you have to sort your things out alone. And I think that's [inaudible 00:09:55]. And so there's this component of I have to get my stuff together all by myself. And I think, specifically from counseling, but from all these perspectives, that's something that each one shares is that you don't have to be alone. And you can journey with somebody in those things. And it's a place of safety to be able to do that. And I think, also, from a Scriptural perspective just that that's what God wants for us. He wants us to be in community and to have support around those things. And so, those are some of the things that I love about each one.
Katie Brown (10:27):
But as Lane talked about, and we've all been kind of alluding to, I think there's specific differences. So with counseling specifically, it's more from a kind of overcoming personal obstacles or relational obstacles and looking at changes. So, it's kind of more from a psychological, emotional, mental health standpoint. And so, that's sort of the niche of that. And also, I love that you had mentioned, Tim, about transitions. Because that's a lot of what I do in grief. And we can get into that possibly more. But, transitioning through life challenges as well.
Tim Austin (11:04):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Good. Yeah. Lori? How about you? I think you were going to say something, too. And I appreciate both of these perspectives so far. What I'm hearing really is kind of a theme of partnership on the journey. You don't have to be... You can feel isolated at times, but you don't have to be. There's ways to partner with a fellow journeyer who also has some skills and expertise in a certain area that can ask the right questions, and come alongside, and facilitate a process of supporting you through conversations, through asking the right questions, and all of that that will help you in your journey. So, yeah. Go ahead, Lori.
Lori Ferrell (11:54):
Well, I'll speak a little bit from the experiential side of both spiritual direction and counseling in my life. I have as an overseas worker, and even before that, felt like I needed counseling. And so, I've experienced that side of it. Realizing, okay, these are some areas in my life that I would need some help for. And counseling was one of the things I knew could help. At the time, I did not know about spiritual direction. But later in my mid-30s when we were going through burnout and my husband and I took an intentional sabbatical year, I actually had a woman on the field approach me and ask me if I'd like a spiritual director. And I didn't know what she was talking about, but I knew I needed someone in my life. And so, we were living in Chiang Mai, Thailand, which has a Christian counseling center. And so, I knew enough that I needed a counselor, but then this woman came into my life as a spiritual director.
Lori Ferrell (12:57):
And I think what was interesting was that I didn't always know, well, what do I talk about with a spiritual director? But actually, you bring sometimes the same things to either place. And I'm only talking about these two because I haven't personally experienced life coaching. But, I think even in life coaching you might bring the same topic of conversation, whatever it is in your life that you're present to. Whether it's a problem or a situation that you just need help with or to sit and talk with someone about.
Lori Ferrell (13:27):
And I think from that season of my life, counseling was able to help me in areas of the emotional, psychological, the mental aspects of the burnout. But, there was definitely views in my Christian faith of God and myself, and how God wanted me, as a person, in my ministry that were distorted. And that, I think, just sitting with a spiritual director as I talked through that there was an aspect of beginning to encounter God's love for me that I needed to heal and begin to see that God was not seeing me as a failure in that burnout. And so I think that they're very complimentary, but they come to us in just different angles. And sort of in a sense, you could say it's like a holistic approach.
Tim Austin (14:17):
Mm. So Lori, just a question. Out of curiosity, where you actually engaging in counseling and spiritual direction simultaneously then for a season?
Lori Ferrell (14:27):
Yes. In fact being quite transparent, I guess, that, yes, I've actually needed lots of counseling. And I've also not stopped spiritual direction once I started. I actually am a strong believer that spiritual direction is something we can take to the grave with us.
Tim Austin (14:45):
Hm.
Lori Ferrell (14:47):
And I'm okay if I need counseling off and on the rest of my life. Although I'm not currently in the season where I need it weekly. But, I have had several years in the last five years, or actually I guess it's been longer, that I have done it simultaneously. And even at times where... Usually spiritual direction's a once a month thing because we're not taking on the whole ownership of carrying the weight of someone else's journey, but we're really coming alongside and that supporting, companioning, helping them continue to engage in that area as long as they want to engage. I think counseling people often go to more often because it's like we really need some tools. I need some tools to kind of help me where I've had an empty toolbox. I've not known... I didn't get raised with enough tools or whatever. So I think in that way, there's a difference.
Tim Austin (15:42):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lori Ferrell (15:42):
But in the same week, I might meet with my spiritual director when it aligns that once a month with my spiritual director once a week. And the conversation topic might be very similar, but I come out with completely different ways that it touches me or gets me thinking.
Tim Austin (15:59):
Great. Yeah. And I ask that question because I think there's sometimes some confusion around that. Can I actually do more than one of these things? Can I be engaged in more than one of these areas at the same time? How do we help people make those decisions? And I know for me I can say the same for coaching and counseling, the combination of the two. And I work with a number of clients who are actually engaged with counseling. And maybe they're working on some marital issues around their counseling, but they want to work with a coach around transition and change. Or one of the individuals wants to work on that with me. And so, I think they very much can compliment each other.
Tim Austin (16:52):
And coaching, being a little more present and forward focused... Where as counseling, you guys have, those who are counselors, have the skills, Katie, for going back into... You'll say it better than I do. But, just dealing with past trauma and some of the history there that they need to process and go back to. So Katie, I'm just interested from your perspective, too, how have you seen those kind of compliment each other, work together?
Katie Brown (17:24):
Yeah. I think they work together very well. And I love what both of you said. Counseling, and you alluded to this, but I kind of look at it as you've been running on bad fuel for a long time and then all of a sudden the engine won't work. And that's an extreme measure.
Tim Austin (17:39):
Mm.
Katie Brown (17:39):
I mean, that's a crisis type of situation. But I think all of us, including myself, we keep doing things. We just keep... This is the way we know how to do them and it's working okay. But it's causing injury, but we don't necessarily recognize it. And then all of a sudden our arm won't work, or something doesn't work, our relationships don't work. And so, I think counseling specifically often you hit a lower point where as you had talked about. And that's not always the case. I try to go to counseling any time I start to see my tank coming down because it's, to me, it's a part of healthy living. And I would rather tank up when I have plenty of fuel left than when I don't have anything left.
Tim Austin (18:21):
That's good.
Katie Brown (18:23):
But as far as the coaching versus spiritual direction versus counseling, specifically, I think what Lori had said about spiritual direction earlier as far as the Holy Spirit entering. I think if you're any of those three... If you're meeting with somebody who believes in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is a part of that session. And I meet with people who don't believe in Jesus, but the Holy Spirit is a part of the session. But I think, specifically, with spiritual direction, your focus... I think, the main thing is your focus of what the focus is of the time together. And so, with spiritual direction... And I'm going to let you guys, the experts in these areas talk about this more. But, your focus is more towards the spiritual piece and your journey there. Counseling is your trying to hit on the emotional side, the psychological side, then mental health piece, the communication piece, the relational piece.
Katie Brown (19:21):
And then, Tim, I'm going to let you talk about, specifically, coaching. But, I think they work beautifully together. And I'll let you take it from there.
Tim Austin (19:29):
Yeah. Yeah. I've already said a little about the coaching piece, so maybe we can go... Lane, do you have anything to add to this?
Lane Arnold (19:35):
Well, one of the things I'm hearing is that there are a lot of overlap, but there're also times when one is more needed than the other, or they need to compliment each other. So, I do have people that I work with... And as I begin to hear some things, I begin to say, "I'm glad to work alongside of you in this, but I'm hearing some things that I think would probably be, also, addressed better with a counselor or with a life coach." And so, particularly, if I'm seeing some places in the past that are really keeping somebody stuck or they are not having good cooping skills for how to manage the brokenness within. That counseling piece brings a professional presence that I don't have the training for. I do a lot of reading, and I've had my own personal counseling and inner healing, prayer, and life coaching. But, I know that that skill set of a counselor is very important to offer the tools and offer the healing for the wounded places in our past.
Lane Arnold (20:44):
Likewise, I think there're times when I have a client that comes in and they are very much oriented towards I'm moving from this place in my career to that place in my career, or this place in this world to that place in the world, or wanting to make a change and not knowing how. And I can talk about that as a spiritual director. But often, I can put on my life coaching hat or send them to somebody else in the life coaching world to say, "Let's look at what particular skills you need for this, and what your goals are during this time." So, Tim, can you talk a little bit about that more?
Tim Austin (21:25):
Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, goals, Lane. I think that's coaching is more outcome based or goal oriented. And so, we're looking at... Whenever I have an introductory session, for example, with a potential coaching client, we will talk about those very things that you've just mentioned really. Just what is some of the history here, what are some of the things you're trying, what's something you're trying to get through to move toward, what's the destination? And so it's really kind of forward focused looking. And if I feel as a coach that there's areas that I would not be best qualified to support them in, I may refer them to a counselor or a spiritual director. Yeah.
Tim Austin (22:21):
I have a wife who's a marriage and family therapist, so she has her own practice. And so, I get to, with keeping confidentiality, I can always run something by her and say, "Do you think I... From your perspective, where should I go with this? Or should I refer out?" Sometimes as coaches, counselors, spiritual directors, we need to get that input somehow. And we've been trained to make those decisions. But there's always kind of, I think, some places where the waters get a little muddy and we need some support in that. Yeah, Lane?
Lane Arnold (23:02):
So I think for me as a spiritual director, one beauty of having a supervisor for my own direction is that very thing that you're talking about.
Tim Austin (23:10):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lane Arnold (23:10):
But, I have a supervisor that I speak to once a month and say, "Here's some things I'm seeing in this particular directee, where am I in faith waters and where do I need to say, "Let's get a bigger net here for you."?
Tim Austin (23:28):
Good. Good. Good. Yeah.
Katie Brown (23:29):
Yeah.
Tim Austin (23:30):
Katie?
Katie Brown (23:31):
So, this conversation is just making me think about counseling, and I'd be interesting to hear, but there's a rigidity to seeing a counselor. And I say that in the sense that I think there's very clear boundaries about what a counselor is and what a counselor isn't. And so that's one of the differences as far as from spiritual direction and coaching that sometimes I think it's hard on clients because there's such a rigidity. And what I mean by that is we can't have a relationship outside the counseling relationship. And for each one, there's different things. But it's very, "Hey, I'm going to meet you at this time for this period of time." And that's our session and this is what that looks like. And you guys can speak to how different that is. But on many different levels, the ethical guidelines and the different things that the legal and ethical guidelines that counselors have to abide by are very, very specific in those terms. And so, sometimes, there is that piece that it's a very specific type of work that we're doing as well.
Tim Austin (24:37):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Amy, I think you were going to say something.
Amy Young (24:40):
Well, I just wanted to throw in the global piece that can be so confusing between counseling, and spiritual direction, and coaching is the dual relationships.
Tim Austin (24:48):
Mm.
Amy Young (24:48):
That some of these boundaries are much clearer when you're in a context like North America than when you are on the field and maybe you're in the same organization. Or you might not live in the same town, but you see each other annually. Or there's just... I think that's where it does also get very muddy in these conversations. Katie and I had the same training on counseling, and I went into the program having lived on the field overseas for nine years. So, I came in with a certain perspective of I'm going to take this training and go back to the field. And so part of my whole training, I was trying to wrestle with how do I take these skills I'm being trained with and apply them to this context that I'm within a certain organization. It's a biggish organization, but it's still small enough that we all know each other. It's almost like counseling in a small town. And the answer I got over and over was, "Well, that's just not the right way to do it. Don't do it." I found that a very unsatisfactory, very unhelpful answer.
Amy Young (25:53):
And I realize that's slightly off topic of what exactly is spiritual direction, what is counseling, what is coaching? But, I think that also factors in when we look at it through the lens of global workers. So, that's all I want to say. I might have just taken us off on a bunny trail. And so now, back to the main trail. But, that's what I wanted to say.
Tim Austin (26:14):
I think that's helpful because there's a lot to navigate there within an organization, sending agencies, whether that be approvals or how you're allowed to use your funds. Different things like that are just practical real issues that global workers have to navigate as they're looking for support and seeking that out. Yeah. Lori? No, sorry. Katie, I think you were going to say something.
Katie Brown (26:47):
Yeah. Yeah. Just one quick thing. So, the reason I brought that up is as you're seeking through trying to decide do I need a spiritual director, do I need a counselor, do I need a coach? Is that... Even on the field... And I love, actually Amy, I think your point is really relevant that regardless of your environment, you are going to hit certain things and it depends what you're looking for and what your needs are. So, if you need a really safe place for a period of time to work through really intense issues, then maybe counseling is that place. But, if you need something that moves a little bit more, then counseling might not be exactly where you want to start with. If that makes sense.
Tim Austin (27:26):
Good. Yeah. Lori?
Lori Ferrell (27:29):
Well, this is making me think it would be interesting... I think listeners who are not familiar with spiritual direction or life coaching, I think counseling tends to be one that we're more familiar with even if we haven't experienced it. We hear about it a lot more in our pop culture, and just it's more accepted now. I think spiritual direction, life coaching are being more known. But, one of the things that I'm aware of is that I didn't really know what it was when I entered in. And so, I usually use my first session to help people feel comfortable by just answering their questions and telling them each thing that's maybe alike in counseling, what to expect, but maybe what's different.
Lori Ferrell (28:15):
Because I know it can be a little, or maybe a lot, nerve wrecking. And people come in nervous to the first counseling session. They may come in nervous. They may come into spiritual direction feeling nervous. I guess life coaching they might, or they might feel a lot of excitement because maybe there's just a different energy. But,` I don't know if we want to talk about how it would look if someone was wanting to consider to talk it through. Because sometimes the unknown makes us more fearful about it.
Tim Austin (28:43):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Great. Yeah. Great point, Lori. And so, I'm hearing you say that you allow that. You take that time in an initial session to answer questions, to explain. So, if someone's not sure... I'll come at it from a coaching perspective. I often offer a complimentary call just to have that conversation, is this a good fit for coaching in the season that you're in? And they can ask any questions and get clarification. I can help them navigate that issue. I can point them to a counselor or to a spiritual director if that's really what they're more looking for. So, that's... Yeah. I appreciate you bringing that up, Lori, because I think some people are kind of, "How do I even start? How do I even start to get clarification on this?" Did anybody else want to add to that?
Lori Ferrell (29:44):
Well, I think...
Tim Austin (29:44):
Lori.
Lori Ferrell (29:46):
For spiritual direction... This is Lori. I think that the idea of the complimentary first time came to me as well when I was trying to figure out how to go about... Because it's less clear than counseling. I think in counseling we definitely know and expect to pay, but spiritual direction tends to be one where some people think it should be free. Some charge. And so there's a variety of offers out there. And I think some people do sliding scales. But, for me, I just had to wrestle with that. And I decided the first time to offer free because there is so much uncertainty and questions. And are we a good fit?
Tim Austin (30:23):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lori Ferrell (30:23):
Because even if I'm trained the same as Lane, Lane and I are different personalities, we have a different feel. And so, for people to be able to try it on and sit with different people. And I also know that the first session probably is going to be less of the normal. And so, I still try to move into an experiential part of spiritual direction, so it's not just talking about it. Because I think that spiritual direction is very experiential. So to just tell them about what they're going to experience is different than, okay, let's move into it. Let's actually sit here together. And if they're comfortable with that, then we move into a more contemplative slowing down kind of space.
Lori Ferrell (31:08):
And so, that is actually, I think, a difference of spiritual direction. It's contemplative, it has more silence woven in, we're not afraid of the silence, and some spiritual directors don't even really talk much during the... Which can be really nerve wrecking for people who aren't used to silence. But, those are things I just try to tell them at the beginning. "Let's not be afraid of the quiet or the pauses." And I like to light a candle if I'm in person, but now most everything is over Zoom, or Skype, or whatever. Yeah. Those are some of the ways I like to just help them feel more at ease with what's going to happen.
Tim Austin (31:46):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Good. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lane?
Lane Arnold (31:51):
And just to add to that. With my directees when somebody calls and says, "I'm not sure what spiritual direction is. Somebody recommend me talk to you." I have a free complimentary phone call, and we just talk all about what is it, what is it not, what might it feel like. And then I actually ask them to pause at that point and take some time to go pray about it. And just say, "Is Lane a good fit? Is spiritual direction a good fit?" And what I really want, as I think we would all want, is we want each of our people that we're involved with to have the best support and the best soul care that they can get.
Tim Austin (32:33):
Right.
Lane Arnold (32:33):
And so, if I'm it, that's great. But, if I'm not it, that's okay, too.
Tim Austin (32:37):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Lane Arnold (32:38):
The other thing that I suggest is that people try spiritual direction for a couple of months because it is meeting just once a month. And so, it takes a little time to get some traction. And the first month or two, I'm also wanting to hear the story of God with them. Where have they walked? So, I can understand where they're coming from. So, to give yourself some space to say, "This feels uncomfortable." And uncomfortable is okay. But, not to quit instantly because oh, this is a little too much. This is just a little too weird. But, also to know from a Christian perspective that this is Christ based. It's not new age. It's not touchy feely. It's not letting go of all conversation for the sake of just sitting there in the silence. There's some purpose to what we're doing. And to talk about some of that purpose.
Tim Austin (33:35):
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Amy, where you going to say something? I appreciate that, Lane. I think this has been really helpful just to get an idea that... And help people, hopefully, feel more comfortable with at least exploring options, maybe helping them to feel more free to explore options that a spiritual director, or coach, or counselor... We're always willing to sit with people and have that conversation around what's a good fit. So, yeah. Super helpful today. Just one last question here. Is there anything that... What's something in your line of work that is often misunderstood by a potential client? And I think we've touched on some of that. But, is there anything else that stands out to you?
Tim Austin (34:27):
For example, for me as a coach, I think a lot of people misunderstand coaching as only being about efficiency and productivity. Like I want to... Or achieving more. And so, I think that there is space in coaching for a more reflective internal processing coming to... I go deep into, a lot of my coaching, deep into core values and what's important to me. Because if we don't kind of solidify what's important and what I believe in and what are the non-negotiables... So, a lot of that is really... Yeah. It helps you move forward, but it's that space of getting clarity, too. So for me, some of that needs to be explained up front with someone who's potentially wanting to be coached. Anything for you guys? Yeah, Katie?
Katie Brown (35:27):
Yeah. I think in counseling, specifically, it's misunderstood that I only go to counseling if I have significant problems or there's something wrong with me, if I go to counseling. And there's been a lot of conversation about the stigma of counseling and all these pieces. But, the reality is that we are all broken people. And I have done hours and hours of counseling myself. And I love, Lori, that you shared more about your story. So, I think that's misunderstood.
Katie Brown (35:55):
And also, I think there is still, especially, in bearing cultures, but really anywhere, people will say, "Oh, wow. You're..." There's still kind of that stigma around counseling. Actually, I see counseling as this beautiful opportunity to heal and to let Jesus transform you into more of what he's created me to be or you to be. And so, I actually see it as this really... I admire people that, for any of these things, that want to grow and become more of who God has created them to be. And to heal.
Tim Austin (36:29):
Good. Good. Thanks, Katie. Yeah. Well good, guys. This has been such a great conversation. And one thing I do want our listeners to know is that we're going to add a short bio of each of our guests today on the show notes. We're going to have that in the show notes of the show. And contact info for each of our guests, so that our listeners do have a way to connect with you guys. But, is there anything you guys would like to add, particularly as it relates to what you have to offer and how our listeners can connect with you?
Lori Ferrell (37:05):
Well...
Tim Austin (37:05):
Okay, Lori. We'll go with Lori.
Lori Ferrell (37:07):
I'll break the silence. So the last few years, I've been living in Chiang Mai and went there as a result of the previous story I was sharing of burnout and experiencing the more healing side. Came with a vision of then wanting to provide sanctuary for the weary heart. And just went to Chiang Mai because it is an area that a lot of overseas global workers come to in the Asia region because it has a lot of resources. But, I think my hope and heart is to sort of make Soul Sala, that's something that you'll see in my bio, a link to that, but just wanting to gather sort of awareness of, okay, there's other workers overseas. Who is in the spiritual direction department that has an overseas international perspective? Maybe they've lived there or they're just more aware of the special needs of those people. And so, that's just one resource. I think it's just how do you find these people? How do you find them? And there's so many resources out there. And I think a lot of them are accessible in North America, but what about internationally?
Tim Austin (38:24):
Good. Good. Yeah. How about you, Katie?
Katie Brown (38:28):
So, I have a website. It's zoecounselinglife.com, which I think Tim's going to post. And I'm doing tele-counseling right now. I am based out of Littleton, Colorado. But, the main thing I'm doing at the moment is meeting with people that are experiencing grief and loss. I do a lot of work with complicated grief as well. So, if you've got a significant... Go to Global Trellis and you can read about more what that is. But, if you're just finding yourself stuck in grief, that's something that I also do. So, I think probably just check my website for more details.
Tim Austin (39:04):
Good. And just to clarify, everybody here on the show here today would be having sessions via online, remotely. So, you can be anywhere in the world and connect with one of our guests today. Lane, how about you?
Lane Arnold (39:25):
Well, first I think I'd like to say that I think Amy Young with Global Trellis, or you Tim, both know how to reach all of us. But, if somebody comes and isn't quite sure who to go to or what to go to, maybe both of you all would be a great resource to say, "We can talk this through with you a little bit." So, you don't have to jump right in with one of us necessarily if you still have some questions. On the other side, I would say that all four of us are very eager to listen and offer more suggestions if that's helpful.
Lane Arnold (39:58):
One of my passions is creativity. And so, I love seeing how creative God is in our stories. And the other thing that I've known quite a bit of is suffering. And so, those don't seem to go together, but they actually do. Because there is an interplay between beauty and sorrow, and between lament and joy. And so, those are places that I walk. And I'm glad to walk in those places with others.
Tim Austin (40:28):
Great. Yeah. Wonderful. So, okay. And I don't need to say anything about myself right now because you'll get the end of the podcast episode. I always have my spiels. But, Amy, let's just wrap this up with you. Any last words from a Global Trellis perspective? I just appreciate you, and I know we all do, for initiating this and putting together such a dream team. And this is just a fraction, a part, of the Global Trellis team. And so, yeah. Tell us what you got.
Amy Young (41:10):
Well, thank you, Tim. And thank you all for being here. One of the things I just appreciate from a Global Trellis perspective is how many people are willing to invest to help all of us keep growing. Investing in parenting, investing in grief, in spiritual direction, in the transitions, in culture, in language, that we don't grow alone. And so, we can all get these inputs. What I've so appreciated about this is conversation and what I value at having at Global Trellis is the space for coaching, for spiritual direction, for counseling. Because I think the world loves to have the fallacy broken people go to counseling, healthy people go to coaching, and woo woo people go to spiritual direction. And that is just not true. That there are roles for each of them. We're all broken, we're all healthy, and we're all woo woo. So, different parts of our story and different parts of us in different seasons need each of this.
Amy Young (42:07):
So from Global Trellis's perspective, thank each one of you for helping to unpack and explain what each is, what it's not, and how it could enter my story and how it could enter each one of the listener's stories. So, I just... There were different points in this conversation I was getting a little teary, and I was also doing jumping jacks inside my heart because I love these kinds of conversations that help create clarity. I think confusion is from the enemy. And a conversation like this takes all that chaos and brings clarity, and helps people to know what resources are there, and how to go forward. So, tears and jumping jacks from Jesus. Yeah.
Tim Austin (42:50):
Awesome. Thank you, Amy. That's a great way to wrap up the show today. And like you said, I mean, there's so much here. Such a rich conversation that we could continue. And actually, I've already had you, Amy, on as a guest on one of my shows. But now, I'm thinking, man, I've got to have each one of these... Lane, and Lori, and Katie, each one individually just to unpack some more things. So, I may be coming after you. But, thank you so much for joining me today, you guys. And for contributing of just your hearts to serve the worker community. Yeah. Again, Amy, you've put together an amazing team. I'm just so privileged to be a part of that. So, I look forward to continued collaboration with all of you. And we'll sign off for now. Thanks.
Lori Ferrell (43:41):
Thanks, Tim.
Katie Brown (43:41):
Thank you, Tim.
Tim Austin (43:43):
First of all, I want to thank Amy Young of Global Trellis, who had the idea for this topic today. I hope this has helped you sift through any confusion, and answer any questions you may have had. You'll find tons more resources when you head over to Amy's website, globaltrellis.com. So, I encourage you to check that out. You may also be wondering how to connect personally with one of today's guests. Well, their bio and contact info is listed on the show notes of this episode, so be sure to use the show notes as a resource as well. And feel free to reach out to me at encompasslifecoaching.com to learn how working with a coach can help you navigate your transition with confidence and clarity. Thanks again for joining me for this episode of Navigate. I've been your host, Tim Austin. And I'll catch you next time.