We all need anchor points to keep us grounded through transition seasons. Welcome to navigate everybody. I'm Tim Austin and this is the podcast designed to take the guesswork out of transition. Whether a transition is looming in your future or you're trying to make sense out of a past or current transition
this shows for you. In each episode, I'll introduce strategies and tools individuals and teams can use to effectively navigate seasons of change, and navigate, we want to help you leverage the challenges of change for optimal growth. Difficult transitions have a way of uprooting and de stabilizing us. In this episode of navigate our conversation will focus on ways to anchor ourselves when the winds of change come our
way. Today I'll be talking to pastor Ray Shelton about anchoring oneself through seasons of change. Ray Shelton leads prayer ministries network which grew out of six years of prayer schools he and his wife Joanne conducted at the J h ranch in Northern California, individuals and couples from across the nation attend their one week intensive training and ministry programs. The Shelton's also developed for couples a one hour training called one note prayer on how to pray together
as husband and wife. It is widely used by others in marriage training events. Since moving back to Chico, California in 2014. Ray has continued in local prayer ministries, as well as serving as a chaplain to the
Chico police department. After more than 50 years of pastoral and teaching ministry, he has become an advocate for the kingdom of heaven on earth, the gospel, which according to Jesus is to be preached in all nations as a witness, Ray and Joanne carry this anointed mentioned message and all they do as a gift to the body of Christ. The scheltens reside in Chico, California, where they also serve on assignment as pastoral consultants at a local church.
They have three daughters, six grandchildren, and two great grandchildren. Thanks so much for joining me today. Ray.
You're welcome, Tim. It's nice to be with you.
Yeah, I'm just so so excited for this conversation we're gonna be having today. We go back aways and that we do. Yeah, shortly after I became a follower of Jesus, you became my pastor. Right? Yeah. And you were already my parents, pastor and the pastor to my wife's family. So I guess you could say, you were there. We could say you were there when the foundation was being laid, you know, in our
lives. And so, so grateful for that which you guys, you and Joanne had have invested into both my wife and I, our lives and even our marriage, you not only that, you know, you had a significant role in helping to lay the foundation from discipleship to facilitating my my first exposure to cross cultural ministry. If you remember, missions trip to Jamaica that you facilitated, extremely well. Yeah, I can't. Number. I can blame you for
that. Right? Well, whatever. Yeah, and then marriage counseling and officiating at our wedding vows and a lot, a lot of history there a lot of great memories.
Well, I can tell you for sure, Tim, we're proud of you guys, and what the Lord has brought you to
thank you, Ray. Well, we love you guys. And even I have really, you know, looked up to you and admire you, mostly, as we have observed you from afar from our overseas context, as you and Joanne navigated some big shifts and changes in life and ministry roles, locations, etc. So maybe you could just bring us up to speed in terms of where you are now. And how you got here and what you most look forward to these days.
In a weekend, we've come full circle, I, I came to Chico, California in 1978. And we were led by the Spirit to take up the password at first assembly here. And we held that for 12 years, and then felt led off in another direction. But 25 years later, we still had children in Chico and we were looking for a place to retire. And we decided this would be it.
So five years ago, almost five years ago, we came back here relocated, resettled, and have been discovering what supposed retirement is supposed to be about. And it's been a fairly substantial transition, believe it or not.
Yes. So, you know, we have to define What retirement looks for, like for everybody and their unique personal stories. And so what does that look like for you?
Well, so far, it hasn't looked like anything I expected because I wasn't thinking so much of retiring as just shifting location and continuing on with the kinds of prayer ministries and other things to join in I had been doing. But in reality, we were reentering a community from which we had been absent 25 years. And so that picture is different from the way we thought it might be. And I, there are some things for which
I'm very grateful. And some things which have been challenging, and that's part of every transition, I suppose. Hmm.
Yeah. Well, yeah, as you were just, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking of, you know, the the re entry kind of transitions that missionaries have, and that we had just a few years ago, coming back to the States after, after 20 years, and being somewhat fairly disconnected from our roots, so to speak, and, and are, relate those relationships that at one point ran deep. And then you're wondering, what's it going to look like here as I transition back? And so for you guys, how
did that feel? What did it look like? How were you able to, to transition? What were some maybe bumps in the road that you didn't expect or some surprises along the way?
Well, it's a good question. And I'm going to go back a bit and talk about another transition that even had greater impact because it was a complete change of life and ministry. And that was back in oh three, when Joanne and I left pastoring, we had been living in our RV, which we had purchased for a couple of years earlier. And we were leaving pastoring altogether, and going into a completely new line of ministry.
And I think that was much more challenging, and maybe even upsetting, and what we're doing now. So chances are we were fairly well prepared for this transition. It just required a few little adjustment to bumps in the road. But most of our transitions in ministry have been fairly fluid, fairly, not really difficult. And I can explain in a minute why that is true. This one to Chico hasn't been that difficult. It just had some bumps. The big one was when we left pastoring, because we
changed everything. We left a congregation, we left a familiar surrounding, we headed off into things that we had never really done before. And I think it was mostly impactful on Joanne because our last child left the house about that time, then there was no congregation anymore. And then things became unfamiliar. And so one of the things we faced was really a time of minor depression in her life. And I had to live with that and live with her and help her and work myself through
these processes. And so I thought that with your permission, addressing the issues of transition of any kind at almost any time, I would share a few of the things maybe that I've learned about the process is is that something like here?
Absolutely. Pastor Ray, I think that would be great. You know, we, you know, I often say, people I work with or in this podcast that transitions are our fertile ground for growth. But they can also feel it feel like shaky ground. So there's that there's there's a lot of things that you know, are that encompass transition, and that you got the from everything from the excitement to a new season to the adventure that we are on with God and what's next to the instability and the uncertainty
and all those things. So I love to hear, I would love to hear and I know that the listeners of this podcast would love to hear what are some of those experiences and things that we could glean and gain insight into, you know, from from your personal transition story.
Thank you appreciate that. I think the first thing that comes to mind is the question. During transition. The question is who's in control. Most of us, like the feeling that we are at least partially in control, we like to be in charge of something that's going on in our life. And so positive transitions don't challenge that as much as negative transitions and by negative i simply mean a transition that perhaps you were anticipating, or not expecting or even wanted to take place,
but it did anyway. And the question who's in control goes back to the basis of our faith of substance of what our faith looks like and what it means. And it's usually accompanied by this question, what is the extent of my loss, or my gain during this time of transition? And having to answer those puts us back deeply into the relationship that we share, not only with the people around us, but with the Father God Himself. I'm going back to a particular time, this was almost 50 years
ago. And I was in a situation that had become burdensome emotionally to me. And I, I guess, just put it bluntly, I wanted out, I had been praying about the Lord helping us get out and make change. And I was, I was pondering that. And I was at the same time reading in the book of Genesis, and I came across the story of Hagar, who was the servant, basically the slave of Abraham's wife, Sarah, and Sarah kicked her servant out, just told her to get out. And an angel found Hagar
wandering in the wilderness. And he asked her two things. He said, Hagar, Where have you come from? And where are you going? And her only answer was, I'm running away from my mistress. She had no answer to the other part of the question, that she wasn't going anywhere. She was just running away. And God's Spirit spoke to my heart as I was reading that. And it came across as a personal exhortation, because he called me by name. He said, Ray, I don't ever want you running away
from things. I want you moving toward things. That became a really valuable life lesson for me, Tim. And as I said, That was almost 50 years ago, and it has stuck with me. And it's always caused me to evaluate any transition in the light of this, am I running away? Or am I running toward? Hmm. And so the idea of who is in control of our destiny, we all kind of remember some of the strange sayings that Yogi Berra had. One of them was when you come to a fork in the
road, take it, huh? Yeah. And it's like, Hello, I have to choose here, but which fork I take and, and you know, sometimes we get a choice. Sometimes we can choose left or right. But sometimes we're forced down something that maybe we didn't think we were choosing, but here's what I discovered. According to the Scripture, God causes everything to work out for good. Yeah, according to the Scripture, God has only one overarching will
for my life. And that's according to Romans 829, that we become conformed to the image of his son. So if I understand that God is in control of the process, that changes my life and character to be more in conformation with Jesus, it certainly helps bring peace into the unsettled times, God is at work, God is working in this transition. I'm not the only one here. I am here with the Holy Spirit, I am here with the Word
of God. And if I'm not running away, from whatever it is, that has been placed in front of me, then I am moving towards something. attitude of judgment, that's a perspective adjustment that has helped me tremendously to realize that the tough times the challenges and the bumps in the road, are not an attended. We are being attended by the one who has saved us and is leading us toward a destination we have a destiny. Yeah, been able, over the time to see God at work in
my destiny. So that was the first lesson I think the Lord taught me about transformation. A transition is don't be running away. be running towards something. Yeah. And the Lord is guiding you and helping you along that way.
Yeah. And how, you know, and I love that how, you know, the, the, the analogy you used and and the example you brought about Hagar and how do you win? That's obviously that's a we may not we may might not say a forced transition, but certainly a difficult transition and one that came because of
hard times. How would you say that looks the same or different, you know, that kind of looking or Moving ahead in a transition rather than running away from something moving ahead and looking forward, how does that look the same or different what, whether it's a forced transition or a difficult transition or something, a transition you're excited about and easily, you know, drawn to?
Well, this last one was something we anticipated, we planned for it. When we retired from active full time ministry and decided to be back here in Chico, around our family and friends and remake our connections from the past. We were happy about that. And there was some excitement in it, and it was something moving forward for us. But there's always the unexpected, there are the things that don't materialize, there are the connections that don't
come together. And, and so the adjustments I had to make, and it's been constant, it hasn't just been, oh, I made this attitude adjustment, and everything's fine. Now, as the years were on, we discover that changes have occurred within us. And to us, as well as the ones that we effected. I mean, we made some changes, but the others just happened. And so the other thing I've had to constantly remember, Tim, is to keep a record of how the Lord and I are walking along together. And here's how I do
that. Most of my life has been a journaling process. By journaling, I mean, I have written notebook after notebook after notebook, I have a box full and a computer full of journaling and notes that I've written as I have read the word and prayed and walked along my journey with the Lord. I can't say too much about journaling. And the reason is simply this, when we are in unexpected moments when we are dealing with challenges, and whether negative or positive, they can still
present challenge. When we're dealing with challenge. Oftentimes, our thought processes, if they're not being expressed in a meaningful way, will get jumbled up inside of us. And we lose track of what God is doing and saying in our life. I dare say that I could take you back through my journals, and track everything that I've ever done and everything that's ever happened to me, not because I journaled
every day of my life. But because the journaling has been so consistent over the periods of my life that I can see, I have written down as in the time it takes to write things down, your thoughts will become organized, and it gives your emotions a chance to respond. Instead of just keeping everything kind of contained and
unsorted. On the inside journaling helps sort things out, it helps release thoughts and feelings, and get them out on paper where you can see them objectively think about them, and then process them especially in prayer. I have made the Word of God, and my prayer life and my friendship with God through the Holy Spirit, a major prime factor of my life, and I still
do to this day. It's a matter of fact, I can remember once, many, many, many years ago, decades ago, sitting in my car one day, and I was just thinking about God and talking to God. And I finally heard myself say, Lord, I didn't realize it. But all this time, you have been my best friend. It's when we discover friendship with God friendship with a father. And that's what Jesus came to reveal to us that we begin to discover how God leads us in our life, and and
works these things out. But it is a process and we're part of the process. It's not God doing something to me. It's the Lord and I interacting until things happen in me. Yeah, yeah. So the relationship, I can't overestimate the relationship aspect. And that is always supported by the word of God, by the prayers that we pray. And the journaling that I've done over the years has certainly helped. It's a sorting process.
It's an organizing process. And then it's a releasing process because I can finally find the track that the Lord has me on with some anticipation.
Yeah, it's kind of like, in I can I don't even know if I can pull out the scripture reference but talking about when you're stinking out, stand at the crossroads, standing at the crossroads and watching and considering and we always talk about it's important to tell our story to other people to tell our, in this case, our transition story and how God has led us and, and just, it's it's perspective. It helps us gain perspective, get perspective. But I hear you saying it's also it's important
to tell your story. But it's also important to document your story in some way.
I just think the whole journaling process, even though I'm not necessarily trying to document it, yeah, comes a document, it becomes a statement of faith, it becomes a track to roll on. I'm sitting here thinking right now to have when I came to Chico in 1978. And it's just as real to me today as it was then, because I tracked it all. We came up here for a Wednesday through Sunday, back in Oh, I think it was early October of 78. first weekend in
October. And I still I could go out today and find somewhere to file. Those, those yellow, that yellow pad of sheets that I journaled that whole five days. And then before and beyond, told the story to myself, rehearsed it with the Lord. I can remember early one morning, just after the sun came up walking the streets of downtown Chico, near the motel where Jen and I were staying, and walking the streets of talking to the ward and, and discussing this transition that
we were in. And realizing how he had masterfully brought this all together and brought it about it's it's an amazing story. Let me give you a couple little ideas about what God did back then just a couple of little things. In that summer. The Lord put on my brother's heart, to just say to me, Ray, it's time for you to make a change. My brother got this from the Lord. So he got on a plane and flew to Southern California where I was living. He spent 24 hours. And he came simply for one reason to
bring me a message. And the message was Ray, it's time for you to leave here. It's time for you to change. And so after he went home, I prayed about that, I waited to hear what God would say, I got two basic instructions. One of them was to send my resume to Chico first assembly. The other was to send an application to reconnect with our denomination in this district of Northern California. And so both of those had a
challenge to me. Because the very first I'd ever heard about Chico first assembly my my cousin had said Chico first assembly is open. And I said I don't want to go to Chico. And so later the Spirit said to me send your resume to Chico? Well, I did. It's the only place I sent my resume. And I will tell you what happened on Chico's end, a retired pastor was serving in an interim position at Chico first assembly, a lovely man a wonderful man of
God. And he was coming in every morning and connecting with the Secretary and then any envelopes that were addressed to the board of the church, he would take unopened and he would lay them on a shelf and the pastor's office, and the next time the board convened, they would open those envelopes and peruse those resumes. On this particular morning. He walked into the secretary's office, she handed
in the envelopes. There were three of them, he went back into the pastor's office, he led that them laid them down on the shelf, except for one, he held this one in his hand. It was unopened. He laid it on the shelf. Later when he got home he said to his wife, I held in my hand today the resume of our next pastor, Guess whose it was?
And I will tell you, it's the interaction it's the relationship of knowing that God is in control that we don't have to be in control that gets us through these transitions and causes them to become meaningful and and growth producing in our life. And so the journaling is part of the relating to God. Yeah, reading the reading the journaling. It's all part of understanding how God is involved with us and how he's leading us through these basic transitions in our life.
Yeah, yeah. And I hear you I when I hear you talking and sharing your story, I it keeps you know, I keep keep coming back to the this idea of of having anchors throughout our journey or places good footholds places where we can step confidently, even in unknown uncertain times. And because you know whether it's a kind of a rug pulled out transition or forced transition that can send us reeling and lacking confidence in Next, what you know, and asking those questions, what's next? How do I
know? So many of those questions that that are out there looming. But it could also be a transition that we choose for ourselves, we still need those anchor points. There's a quote by William bridges, in his book called The way of transition. And he says, as rock climbers try to move only one hand or foot at a time, keeping the other three points of contact with the rock solid. So the person in transition will usually do well to use the rest of his or her life as a series of holds while making a
transition elsewhere. And, and so I think we're talking about some of these holds, if you've, you know, you've hinted at a number of them the journaling the prayer, the Word of God, a number of these holds, that you've used to navigate transition seasons in your own life. Can you tell us about some of those maybe some non negotiables for you? What are some non negotiables for you in terms of no matter where you are? What season you're in, if it's turbulent, or calm, or
transition or not? What are some habits and practices that don't change even through the most most tumultuous times?
So I was reading and praying through proverbs three this morning, I had encountered it the other day, for something else I was doing, I'm writing another curriculum for a poor school right now. And so verse five, and six are usually pretty well known to most people who have a walk with the Lord. It says, Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not depend on your own understanding. In other words, who's in control really, in all your ways, acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths
straight. Let's take the rock climbing analogy, because you just quoted from a fellow. This, this idea of trusting a rock climber, I've watched it, I've never done it. Well, I've done it a little bit. As a kid, when I lived on near Mount Shasta, we used to climb up in the rocks. But a real rock climber who's doing face rock climbing a mile off the ground, or whatever. When I've watched what they do with their hands in their feet, they never just reach over and grab something and move, they
reach. And then they test. They put their foot down, and then they test. They test, they test to see if that next hold is going to actually hold before they release any of the other old points. And if we want to use that analogy, the four things that I've mentioned this morning, three of them, and I'm adding the fourth now, three, one is keep a journal of your relationship with God. keep a journal of the Word of God keep a journal of your prayers to God. Those are three holding
points. Those are footholds. I've done them so much through my lifetime camp, that I know that those are solid anchor points. Yeah, the fourth. It's non negotiable. But it's also the most difficult, and it's called trust. Trust in the Lord. To me, that's a non negotiable. I can't negotiate my trust in the Lord. I had to decide at some point that he is trustworthy, he can be trusted with my transition. I can't see ahead. I can't know everything.
A lot of things we do we do in good faith, we do with some expectation, or we do with some acceptance if it wasn't something we wanted to choose. But the non negotiable and all of this is don't depend on yourself. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. You're not depend on your own understanding. I I'll tell you what, I feel sad for people who don't carry on a relationship
with God. And I'm even talking about some Christians, whose idea of a relationship with God is going to church and hanging out with your Christian friends. Hey, I'm telling you right now going to church and hanging out with your Christian friends won't cut it. When you're looking for that next holding place as the face of the rock. Yeah, yeah. But trusting that God is providing that next handhold or the next foothold, trusting that God has already been there, and you can count on
him. In all your ways, acknowledge Him and He will make your path straight. So don't be wise in your own opinion. You're the Lord and turn away from evil. That has been the glue that binds all my other holding points to Gather is trusting God, trusting His sovereignty, trusting his wisdom, trusting his love for me, his acceptance of me knowing that I belong to him, and he cares.
It's great. Yeah. You know, I want to kind of pause here and and and go back to something you mentioned early on in, in our conversation about you mentioned leaving the decision to leave the pastorate altogether. Yes. And, and this is something, this is something that is really common to a lot of us in full time ministry, whether that be in pastoral
ministry or or missions. And something I struggled with personally as we after 20 years, made a decision to transition back to the, to the US following all those years overseas. Right? The whole idea of calling, because we talk so much about it about calling in, in the ministry context, and, and we even see how God calls us and God calls his people he calls his profits, he calls his anointed ones, and so breathless, something that gets kind of just just really instilled in you about, I'm
called to do this. And yet, how do you how do you negotiate that in terms of transition when you're feeling like a total shift out of something that you've been doing for so long? In my case, as a missionary overseas and your case, as a full time pastor, how do you negotiate that transition? And do all the things we're talking about today? And, and not allow? Well, I guess just to reframe, or redefine the calling, I'm not sure what I'm getting at, but maybe me,
I hear you let me help you with that. Because for me, I had already been in full time ministry for 50 years, right. So it wasn't as if I was a novice, or just suddenly making a change over or just suddenly wanted out of ministry. None of that happened. I was quite, I was probably 5758 years old. And and so this was a very interesting time for joining me because something new happened
to us. In the year 2000. God introduced me to a whole aspect of my, who I am, where it came from, that I hadn't paid any attention to my whole life. I happen to be Native American on my mother's side. And in the year 2000, the Lord reintroduced me to my Native American roots, my heritage. And it absolutely slammed me it just had an impact because the Lord was preparing to segue us from full time pastoring into something else all together, I won't go through
all the details. I'll simply tell you that the year 2000 was a watershed and the beginning of the inward transition that would lead to the stepping out of pastoral ministry. I didn't deliberately just decided I didn't want to pastor anymore, right? It came because God gave me a whole new revelation of who I am, where I came from. And what could be if I would just let him guide me along the path.
By the year 2002, we were solidly understanding that this was a shift, there was going to be a major change, we prepared for it, we started thinking in that direction. And then the day came when we hitched up our RV and drove out of our last pastoral town, your over way. And we drove to Chico and parked our RV and waited to see what God would do next. Now the adventure was on. Well, in the course of time, it took a couple
of years. But by 2005, we were associated with a major Christian ministry, what I would call an adventure ranch up near the Oregon border in California. And we landed there and we lived there for 10 years. That was that was the place where we developed the prayer schools and ran prayer schools for six summers and did prayer school
ministries in between. I heard myself saying after a season, Tim, to the friends who would come we would we would get a new group of people every week, attending one of our prayer schools all week, every week during the summer and they would come live with us for a week we did life together. That's how we conducted our prayer schools on this ranch. If people came, they lived in our house. We did life together. We spent a week together. Then they went home and carried out what they'd been
learning. And I heard myself saying to them, Lord took me out of my vocation and placed me in my destiny. Hmm. I was always destined to do what I'm doing now. But it wasn't my vocation. My calling is to be like Jesus, my calling is to serve God. my vocation was pastoring. And that ended. But I wasn't done. When my vocation ended. I was walking into another season of my life that I wanted to call my destiny. That's where I live
today. Because I've had another major transition since then, which is leaving that 10 year stamp, and settling into what might look to some like retirement. But I'm still in my destiny. The thing that called us forward is still a calling in my life. Yeah. And I mentioned I am right now writing a new curriculum for another prayer school. I've been asked to teach it at why Wham. And so a couple months from now, that's the next thing I will do. I don't see
myself ever not ministering. We are just preparing right now. We've already made the contact. There's a young couple living here in ministry. And we've already made the connection. We're going to start mentoring them for the next year. Wonderful. And so we're in we're still in our calling. Yes, this looks different. And God has taken us through the transition times.
Yes. I'm so glad you you put it that way. And mentioned just the kind of the distinction between vocation and calling. And our destiny, like you said, is to be like Jesus to be conformed to his image, we have a future and a hope with him in whatever direction as we trust him to lead whatever direction of vocational work and ministry he leads us into. correctly. Yes, you're an inspiration. Pastor Ray, I really appreciate you sharing that and how it helps us a
fellow transitioners. to, to not maybe associate guilt or shame or remorse with leaving a role, where we've kind of wrapped our identity around that role. And who we are, well, no, I'm more than that. I'm in Christ, you know, my identity is in him. And so, yeah, always another, I guess you could say, another anchor point, we could just kind of leave with our listeners today. be reminded of who we are, ultimately, who we are and what our identity is, ultimately, in Christ. So yeah,
I can't say it's easy. I will say this. There have been several times in the last few in the last two or three years, where I have thought to myself, wow, I should be pastoring. Again. I can imagine myself doing that. And then the reality hits me how old I am. And how much I don't want to do that again. I am that so it doesn't take long to get past that fantasy. Oh, I could go past or get no, I really can't. God really has led me to where I am. Yeah, Lord really is using
me in this role. God really does have his hand on me. And I can trust him as I move forward and stay in my calling.
Absolutely. Yes. Well, this has been this has been a great conversation. Thank you for sharing. Pastor Ray, do you have a just as we wrap up this this time together? Do you have any last word of encouragement for fellow transitioners out there listening to the podcast today?
I absolutely do. It's one of my favorite models. I say it to anybody who will listen these days. It's get up and show up. Get up every day, knowing that God is fleeting, and then show up to wherever you're supposed to be. Don't let any negative feelings keep you from doing life together with the Lord who has called you and is leading you get up and show up.
Thank you, Pastor Ray, a great a great word of exhortation and encouragement for everyone out there listening today. Get up and show up. You've been listening to a conversation with Pastor Ray Shelton about finding and maintaining our footing and transition seasons. Thanks so much pastor Ray for being on the show. God bless him. As you navigate transition, make a list of some non negotiables that can remain a part of any transition you go through. Why are they
important? How are your core values and beliefs represented here? How can these non negotiables function as holds for you as you make your transition climb? As a coach, I'm passionate about helping you discover what those anchor points are. During transition seasons. Book a discovery call with me at encompass life coaching comm if you're interested to learn more, how working with a coach can help you grow during this season of
transition. Thanks for joining me today everybody for this episode of navigate podcast. I've been your host Tim Austin and if this has been helpful to you, would you mind rating the podcast and writing a review And sharing on social media. And of course, you can subscribe so that you're sure to get in on the next episode of navigate. I'll see you there.