Tree Talk

Welcome to Nature Guys, the podcast that connects you to the exciting natural world right in your own neighborhood. I'm Bob, a longtime nature lover, and today I'm joined by the plant guru. Greg Torres. Greg, welcome to Nature Guys. Hi, Bob. Thanks for having me back. It's been a while. We're gonna talk about um a pretty what most people would consider to be a large plant. Of the largest. Of the largest plants on the planet. And I think most people would recognize the technical term tree.

But then again, Sometimes it gets a little nebulous about exactly what is a tree. So we're going to be talking about a variety of things about trees in general today. But we always start out trying to define our topic on Nature Guys. So what exactly is a tree, Greg? Yeah, let's define our terms so we're all on the same page. A tree has a definition and uh just to give it to you, it's a woody perennial plant that's typically having a single stem or trunk.

uh growing to a considerable height in oftentimes bearing lateral branches uh some distance from the ground. So it's not a shrub that has multiple trunks, um It's not bamboo, which is actually more closely related to grasses. It's not palm trees, which are also in a a different uh lineage than trees properly. Uh but generally speaking trees are woody and they have branches um and they get bigger than most of the other plants around uh that are around them.

Uh a lot of our terrestrial ecosystems are defined by the presence of trees or the absence of trees. So we have like boreal forests, we have temperate forests, tropical rain forests. Or on the other hand we have deserts or tundra. Those are kind of the absence of trees, right? Those ecosystems. Right. And then like in mountainous areas, you know, they talk about the tree line. You're getting above the tree line and then when you hike.

like out in Colorado, it's very clear. You can see, you know, you'll hike out and you'll get to a point where kinda Dwindles off a little bit, right? And you'll have a few little sh kind of shrubby like trees and then it they're gone. And then they're gone. Uh the the conditions for them to grow just uh don't exist above that level. So

Trees in general you need ample moisture, you need good sunlight to provide for trees. And um we've got a number of ecosystems around the world that have trees as their predominant plant organism. Uh you could even argue that trees are probably the apex of plant development on the planet. And it's not just a tree, but forests. Right. Um they are I would argue probably the most important terrestrial ecosystems on the planet, especially tropical rainforests and uh temperate forests as well. So

Those are trees in general. That's the uh the the broad definition of our and what we're talking about today is uh kind of the importance of trees and the relationship that humans have to trees and why that might be uh crucial for us to recognize.

Um I also want to talk about there's evergreen trees, conifers And then we have hardwoods, uh or deciduous trees like maples, beeches, oaks, etc. So there's different forms of trees even within this definition of tree. So it's a broad definition, a lot of different kinds of trees. So you mentioned they're important. Like why are they important in your mind?

Uh there's a number of different reasons that I think trees are important. Uh some are undeniable, right? Like they provide uh oxygen for all the the air breathing creatures on the planet. Something like one square mile of trees produces uh twenty nine tons of oxygen per day. And that's enough for about ten thousand people to breathe. So It's pretty important that we need trees, especially if there's billions of humans, we need square miles of trees to provide that kind of oxygen.

Uh, they also provide a good buffer for humans, especially with our pollution. The trees are one of the only things that can take carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and fix it into their bodies. and uh kind of balance out the carbon that we're throwing in excess into the atmosphere. So it's vitally important that we have trees, not only now but into the future. And ideally we should have more trees as uh we continue our presence here on the on the planet. Yeah, absolutely.

I also would say that life's biota on land really is geared towards living in and around trees. Not all organisms, but a large percentage of the tr of the organisms on the planet. Again, tropical rainforests harbor more animal species than any other ecosystem on land and so it's not a coincidence that where you have a lot of trees and a lot of species of trees, you have a increase in animals and insects and all this other diversity as well.

Yeah, and I guess we should make the point too that just numbers of trees uh we're talking about the importance of biodiversity. So some of these um sometimes what happens is we'll have uh groups of people come in, cut down all the trees, all the various species of trees, and then plant basically a monoculture in its place. It doesn't replace what was there and and often uh doesn't make

nearly the difference that a a diverse forest would. No, it doesn't. Again, a lot of our insects are directly connected to certain plants and if you have just a stand of a few plants or one species of plant, you're gonna r drastically reduce the amount of insect or even bird activity that you're gonna find in that forest. Uh trees in general, I would say that in history they're drivers of biodiversity.

Think of an ecosystem without a tree. It's gonna be flat. Maybe you got topography, some mountains in that. But as far as like three dimensionality to the ecosystem, trees really provide that. Not only above the ground, but in the dirt as well.

So there's organisms in the soil that will be using tree roots, fungi that connect to tree roots, and a lot of other things that happen under the ground all around tree roots. The tree roots themselves provide uh increased opportunities for things to develop. And of course above ground we have the tree roots. Big trunks. branching out, a lot of leaves, a lot of opportunities for a lot of different organisms to start developing and evolving to live in and among those trees. Birds.

Where would they take off from without trees, right? Bats, where would they be without trees? A lot of the insects, I'm imagining those inchworms that look just like a tree nub, right? Right. Or a number of other insects that are so well adapted for trees. specifically trees. Yeah, I was just working on a project in my yard and I've been doing some research on leaves. And there's a big um you know, a big movement now to kind of leave the leaves.

And what we have found in research and science that the leaves that fall off the trees, a lot of people I think, well, they're like waste material, right? You want to get out there and blow'em out or rake'em out and get rid of'em and throw'em away. But actually when those leaves fall

There's all there's this whole community of insects that make their living off those leaves. A few years ago I was shredding uh some of my leaves to use as mulch in the garden. But then I realized that Uh this is a place where a lot of these insects live in the winter. So I get leaves not only from my yard, but you notice the big bins back there. I've got bins that hold like two hundred and fifty gallons and I've got like eight of them.

And so I I collect leaves from my neighbors and other people that are nice enough to leave these nice bags of leaves for me and I bring'em over and now I put them in those bins and I'm leaving them as they are right now. uh because there are insects and things in there that are gonna overwinter in there and so I really don't want to destroy that habitat for them. So I leave'em alone and then I was researching, well, when is a good time as long as you can wait.

basically. Maybe May, June in that area. At that point most of the insects have made their way out of the leaf structure and gone into other habitats for the summer. So You can really uh I mean it's this this whole system of uh and we've talked about the importance of course of insects. Um, but you know, the the the leaves from the trees are supporting that uh a lot of that life. Yeah. And that what you're talking about are kind of like dead leaves.

Even yeah, even in just the refuse of bees you have this huge diversity of insects and other creatures. Um I'm thinking about some of the my my swamp land uh down in Florida. Um we've got for example, pond apples that grow directly out of the water. There's no other plants that can live in that kind of situation.

Because the pond apple, this one type of small tree that grows directly out of the water, you have all these epiphytes that grow on the branches, other plants that grow on the branches of this one tree. Without that tree, this whole ecosystem wouldn't be there. And there's orchids, there's bromeliads, all kinds of other insects and creatures that inhabit this ecosystem.

Solely based off of one tree being able to grow straight out of the water and provide its branching uh to as a substrate for other things to grow on. So

They really are drivers of biodiversity, as I was mentioning. I think one of the biggest things to keep in mind is that we are products, right? Humans are products of evolution among trees. And uh I think we m forget that sometimes. But if you just look at your hands, those are the greatest products I think of trees. They've been given to us, you know, over time. Uh human hands are directly evolved from our predecessors living in and among trees. Our hands are meant to grab the arms of trees.

Um, that's what they're good for. And a lot of our tools throughout history have been based off of a wooden handle. Again, indicating like how adept our hands are at grasping tree branches specifically and wood specifically. It's almost like this natural connection that we have. And there's a feel to it, you know. Um we've uh we're both kind of tool guys. But you know, there's something about you know, you can buy these

tools now that have fiberglass handles and stuff, but there's something about a wood, don't you agree? A wood handled tree. I mean, you just get a feel to it. And even uh like I've got an old hammer that I've had for years and it's just worn down and And this has a feel to it that that I couldn't get from a fiberglass handle. I agree with you. I I think that, you know, um

It's from a living thing, one. So right there's there's a life I don't want to sound hoke hokey about it, but there's a life connection there. And also the wood far in ad in addition to us being evolved to grasp wood, it feels good in our hands. I think it's slightly flexible so when we use it as a tool it doesn't provide such a shock to our hand. It kinda takes that absorption. And also what I know about wood tools, the older they are, the older the handles are, the

the gentler they are to hold in your hand. They get softer to your hand. They wear and fit to your hand better. And I I like that about wood tools too. I'm kind of a absolute tool geek. Yeah. But in addition to just tool handles, you know, plants provide us or trees

specifically provide us with um wood, which is a phenomenal building material. Um the strength that it has in combination with flexibility is unmatched really out there. And it's a biodegradable and uh sustainable product that we could use for our construction in the future, uh, probably more

In addition to that we've got dyes, cleaning agents, oils, uh drugs come from uh some of our trees, biofuels, a lot of different products and materials, chemicals come from trees that we use almost every day, even flavors like cinnamon. come from trees. So uh pretty important for us if we want to have the nice things in life like cinnamon. Absolutely. Um well and uh breathing is a big thing, right? As you mentioned earlier. So without the trees

We literally I don't think we would be able to exist on this planet in the numbers we have. I mean it No, no. It would be difficult. And we we wouldn't have evolved without trees. Right. So fundamentally we need them as a prerequisite for ourselves if if that's how you want to look at it in a way. Right. Um

So there's other aspects to trees I think that humans have. Uh I talked about the human hands and how our hands are specifically designed for grasping trees. Um the opposable thumbs, you know, which aren't very common in other creatures. our lineage, the ape lineage, the monkeys, they they have that and it's all because of our ability to grab trees. Human eyesight is also a major uh factor I think caused by our living among trees.

Most animals that have the eyes in the front of their head are predators, right? Uh and other animals that have eyes on the side of the head they're usually uh herbivores or some kind of prey of some sort, so they can see well around the their whole head. However, humans have our eyes directly in the front. Um apes and other monkeys that eat fruits and vegetables also have their eyes in the front. And they're it's thought that they have our eyes oriented

front forward facing so as to be able to move quickly through trees and to be able to see depth perception very accurately. Because we have to move fast. uh you'd have a really painful experience if you didn't know where that branch was next as you went to it. So the orientation of our eyes, even the colors that we're able to see, uh all are designed to be living in and among trees. Birds seeing colors and so do humans and monkeys as well. And it's probably to see ripe fruits in trees.

uh many other mammals don't see in colors. And so it's because of our ancestry in trees that we have this gift of being able to see the the colors that we do today. Um also patterns. Uh, like seeing fractal patterns is psychologically pleasing to us to see a repeated pattern over and over and over again. Well

One of the things I like to do when I'm in the forest is just look up and you have a repeated pattern of a maple leaf over and over and over and over again. And that's pleasing to our eyes. And I think this is all really basic instinct to human our our human psyche from our actual living for probably hundreds of thousands, millions of years in and among trees. It just feels good to be around them. We did a previous episode, you did a previous episode on forest bathing. Right. Um

There's a lot of benefits to that too. Do you remember anything? Well, you know, the first thing we have to d talk about defining terms when people hear forest bathing I I remember the first time I heard that term. I thought, oh, okay, well um people are going out, you know, like bathing in ponds or whatever. It's sorta bathing in the ambiance of the trees or the life forms of the trees. I think that's basically it. Going out into the forest

in being present in among the trees in in enjoying the the experience therein. What they've shown though is that has great psychological benefits for humans to be able to do this, to go out, separate ourselves from the human madness that is everywhere today, go into a quiet place among the trees and just sit and be among them. It sounds kind of like you're just thinking about it, but

Plants give off chemicals and if you ever have been into like a pine forest you can smell that piney smell. Those are phytochemicals. They're chemicals that plants are creating to aid themselves or to communicate with other plants. And in this case with the piney smell, it's oftentimes to disinfect the forest from harmful bacteria that might affect the trees themselves or harmful uh fungi as well. So by sitting in and among a pine forest and breathing in these

Minute phytochemicals. It's akin to microdosing yourself with beneficial plant chemicals. almost like eating good food. You can breathe it in as well from the plants. And that's shown really good benefits. Even just smelling an apple. can reduce your heart rate. So being in among the trees, breathing the air that they're imbuing with these phytochemicals has shown some real benefits. Um also the auditory uh aspects of it, the birds chirping.

the wind and the sound of the trees is also very soothing to people, um, as opposed to cars honking or Jets flying overhead or something like that. Yeah. We did an episode two years ago on the sit spot, but actually you mentioned sitting. in the forest, which is a really nice thing because sometimes there's nothing wrong with hiking through the forest. It's a great experience. But we're kind of inundated with different you know, it's almost overload sometimes, especially if you hike with uh

you know, a botanist type of person like you and it's like, Oh, here's this, here's that, here's this and then it's like it's just oh my gosh, it's just overwhelming. But if you just sit for a while and I find that depending on how um

anxious I am, it may take a while. It it's not gonna you can't sit and expect this to magically happen in twenty seconds. But sit for five or ten minutes And I think you do feel and I guess this bathing concept is is really A good one in a way because when you think of a bath

you think of water being surrounding you and and getting that feeling all over your body. Well you get that same kind of feeling in the forest when you're when you really take the time to sit and slow down and just let your mind It's not that it's not like uh it's a little different than just than say meditation.

Because you're try you're not trying to eliminate the forest. You're trying to bring the forest in to your thoughts and your being. And it's really it's powerful and very calming. It is calming. And um I think

We could all use a little bit more calm in our life too. Everyone would agree with that. Um So we've talked about kind of the mental connection, the physical connection that humans have to trees and one other aspect that I'd like to talk about, and it's not so much science.

uh, but it is an aspect about the human experiences. We we have emotions. We have a spiritual uh aspect to our human existence and so Throughout history trees have been kind of like uh inspiring to people, both from a religious perspective, but also um just seeing their longevity, the strength that trees have. the awesomeness of an oak tree and how it's uh providing for so many other things. We talked in a previous episode about mistletoe.

how mistletoe in an oak was thought to be the living heart of the tree. Um, and then that would be taken indoors, you know, uh all as part of this ritual. Trees have for a long time given people this basis of spirituality and religion. even I've heard that the columns of a cathedral as you walk into it is nothing more than just the columns of a tree in a mature forest as you walk through. The dappled light coming through stained glass window is nothing more than the light coming through

the leaves filtering down through the the tree canopy. So there's a big connection there. I think it's not a coincidence in that way. But beyond that, even if we don't want to get into a spiritual aspect, I think there is this point about transcendence that working with trees really gives us.

Planting trees, you know, you grow them, you plant them, it's that tree is gonna transcend your lifespan. And that's something I think if you take seriously when you're planting the tree, uh, you can have some real good feelings about that. planting trees or even enjoying the trees that we enjoy today. They're oftentimes planted by somebody in the past and we're enjoying their the benefits, the shade and all of that today. We have, I feel, an obligation to the previous next generations

to plant the trees for them to enjoy in that. That's why I do a lot of work with kids around trees and such. It kinda takes you out of this um our lifespan and our you know, how old are we and how long are we going to live and you plant the tree with no expectation that you're gonna sit under the shade of that tree, but somebody else is and you're enjoying, as you said, the shade of a tree that was planted by someone else. Often

A blue jay. Or you know, a squirrel. You know, we always get ballistic about squirrels running around taking things, but you know, they are. We have planters of trees out there. We don't we don't plant all of them by any means and But it's this this beautiful continuation of life. That it they were here before us, they'll be here after us. There's something about that.

I think as you touched on in this day and age when so much change is going on and it really does provide a calm aspect to life and a perspective. Yeah. Yeah. That you can't get um In your normal day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think also another aspect of it, I'm using the word transcendence or transcendental. I think working with trees in another way is transcendental in the sense that it transcends our human species. Planting trees isn't necessarily for humans.

Uh not everything we do should be for humans sometimes. Sometimes planting trees will transcend your species because whatever you plant is gonna feed other things. in another lifetime or even in your present lifetime, but it transcends this human interest that we always have. I also like the idea of transcendence in that planting trees really breaks that linear approach that humans have towards nature. We go to nature, we take from it and we make stuff out of it or use it.

planting trees, as I've already explained, it transcends our lifetime, our species, and sometimes it's done of its own good. Um and in that way it breaks that linear approach. You're planting seeds or trees knowing that this is gonna have a cyclical, beneficial uh aspect that's gonna go beyond your self interest. And I think that's really important as well. So The only other thing that I'd like to say I guess is that

Teach kids to plant trees, get kids involved with planting trees. Um if a kid starts planting trees when they're young, they're gonna make a pretty big impact on some other creatures lives for sure. Even a squirrel, as we talked about. I think too.

We should take time out of our day. Not every day, but occasionally, to really have some respect, some reverence for trees, to really acknowledge what they are, the importance of their advent on this planet, that there is no other planet like this. And that trees again are the apex of this kind of development of this plant kingdom. All the benefits that trees give to us

Really we go and we take it for granted, I think, every day, right? I don't think about the oxygen I breathe every day, but it's take it for granted. One time I was hiking in upper peninsula in Michigan in some of their conifer forests up there, the hemlock and that, and I came upon a sign on this trail and it was called uh the prayer of the wood and I read it.

And it was quiet in the woods and it was winter and I I had a moment, like a kind of a spiritual moment, reading through this and letting this hit me how important trees are. So if you give me a chance I'd like to read this I think I'd love to hear it. Cool. Um so it's called The Prayer of the Wood. It says I am the heat of your hearth on the cold winter nights, the friendly shades screening you from the summer sun, and my fruits are refreshing droughts quenching your thirst as you journey on.

I am the beam that holds your house, the board of your table, the bed on which you lie, and the timber that builds your boat. I am the handle of your hoe, the door of your homestead, the wood of your cradle, and the shell of your coffin. I am the bread of kindness and the flower of beauty, ye who pass by, listen to my prayer, harm me not. So when I read that

I was kind of shook. I was like, Wow, this is really kinda deep and it really got me down this journey of thinking about the importance of trees and why I've come to this understanding of of how important they are to me and Why I try to share that with other people as well as joining me in doing this today. Coming up in the future episodes, we're going to touch on some specific trees and talk about

what are the histories behind those trees and what are some of the human connections to those trees? We're gonna have some people on who have had very special relationships to trees. Stay with us for the series. We're excited about it and Greg's gonna be back to do a number of these and we'll have some other special guests joining us. So it's gonna be exciting. Looking forward to uh

A good year of trees. I need the trees this year. Yeah, we all do. Well, thank you, Greg. My pleasure. Uh this has been great. And I think We'll have to end by saying for Nature Guys, this is Bob. This is Greg. Saying we hope until next time you'll take the time to step outside and stay awhile. Take care everyone.