Episode 9: Histamine intolerance

- Welcome to the Natural Health for People in Pets podcast, a show that aims to empower you with the knowledge and tools needed to take control of your own health and wellbeing, as well as providing health promoting strategies for the dogs in your life. The world of health and nutrition can be overwhelming, so what better way to understand what works and what doesn't, what's evidence-based and what's not, then to hear it from someone in the know.

So, please welcome your host of the show, accredited naturopath and nutritionist Narelle Cook. - Welcome back again to Natural Health for people and pets. I'm the co-host of the show, Glen Cook, but now to the person in the know Noelle Cook. - Hello everyone. - You know they can't hear you right now, don't you? But you can say hello, would you? ? . - Anyway, - Yeah, welcome - Back. It's good to - Be back. Yeah, it is.

- I got some good feedback. I always love getting feedback in stories after each episode that we do. - Yeah, that's good. - And I got some great personal stories from people who are using digestive enzymes with their dogs. Mm-Hmm. with great success and people who have their dogs on digestive enzymes, you know, for life basically. And sort of attribute their dog's quality of life and longevity to impart the digestive enzymes.

And I think that's great. So I hope that, you know, my position in the episode didn't come across that I was anti enzymes. I, I think enzymes are great. Um, I guess my point is always just to make people stop and think about why they're giving supplements to their dogs. Mm-Hmm. . But if it's indicated, I mean, if I had a dog on kibble, I would probably have it on an enzyme for most meals. Well, - You take digestive enzymes yourself.

Well, I, as we said in the episode, yeah, I - Go through phases. It depends. If we're having heavy meat meals, I'll have enzymes, but if we're eating lighter and healthier, I don't see the need for them. But I just realized too, to help with lady bugs who's after her accident, I popped her on a product and it's not an enzyme product, so I didn't mention it in the episode. It's a fiber product, but it's got enzymes in it, but it doesn't quantify the enzymes and it's at low levels.

So I sort of dismissed it. But it's a great product. It's by livestream. It's a human product and it's called Bowel Biotics Fiber and enzymes. Mm-Hmm. . And it's mainly cilium and inulin, which is a prebiotic, but it's got a few enzymes in it. And I love too that it's got some ginger and peppermint. Mm-Hmm. . So it's a great all round digestive. But yeah, so thanks for the stories everyone. I love the feel good stories after the episodes.

- I did see on a few forums after you did the episode, there was a lot of conversation opening up about digestive enzymes. So maybe you provoke some interesting conversation with people that they thought, Hmm, that's interesting. I wanna learn a little bit more about that. Which is, you know, fundamentally it's a good thing about doing some of these podcast shows is when you raise a topic, people go, Hmm, I actually don't really know much about that.

And now I do know a little bit about it and now I want to go on a journey of a bit more discovery. Which is good. I like to see that too. It - Is good. So I hope I do stimulate that in people and because you know, there's a lot of controversy with enzymes. I dunno if I mentioned it. You look at some websites that say, you know, they're useless and no dog should be on them and they're actually harmful. And then other sites will say, every dog should be on them for life. So find a middle ground.

- There's a couple of good things that come out of this. And one is that I get to learn about it as well, which I do enjoy because these are conversations that we don't regularly have around the dinner table. But now when I'm doing the podcast and I get to sit down and listen to you doing it and then re-edit it, I actually get to listen to the show a couple of times. So I get to really absorb the information and it provokes a little interest in me from time to time.

'cause I think, yeah, I dunno much about that at all. Which I profess I'm not the smart person about natural health and nutrition on this show. It's you. But it adds to my collective knowledge as well. One of the other points that I do wanna raise as well is we got to interview on the canine paradigm, a gentleman who is a role model to many of us in the industry. He's a professor in anthology, Dr. Roger a Brandis. And he talks about when something in science is proven, it's actually a fact.

So that's one thing that I like to address is, you know, like we have a lot of popular opinions on things, but, and that's great. But at the end of the day, facts are facts. - That's right. Mm. So, and I try and stick to the facts. I mean, I've got lots of opinions, but, well, you - Are a scientist. - I am. So when I'm in clinic, I only like to use, it's hard because of what I do in natural medicine, but I do primarily like to base my decisions on evidence-based science.

- And I do see you doing the research. - Yeah. And what I love to what you're saying before, how you know you learn something from these podcasts. I love it when I hear you on the phone to a friend - Bumbling my way through it, . Well - They'll be saying they've got some health problem and I'll hear you say, oh, you need to take some zinc or some vitamin C. And I just smile. I'm like, oh, he was listening. Yeah, yeah, - Yeah. You've acknowledged that before. Yep.

- Oh, have I? Yeah, - I think so. - It still impresses me. Oh, that's great that you listened to me. - Yep. Earned some husband points. That's it. - Yep. So today, mm. We are gonna talk about histamine. - Good time of year for it. - Well it is in Australia. Mm. Um, we're in spring coming into summer and I have had a lot of presentations in clinic with people and dogs with increased respiratory symptoms and skin issues. So I just thought I'd talk about the role of histamine in all of that.

Mm-Hmm. So I guess we'll start beginning as I always do, and sort of explain what histamine even is. - Yeah. I think that's a good place to start. Because although I know the word, I don't know exactly what it is. I know it has something to do with the body's reaction to certain things and the inflammation it causes, especially to the mucus membranes and so forth. But again, I'm only summarizing on small points where, you know, the vast knowledge of it. Yeah.

- Histamine, it's naturally, it's a chemical that's naturally found in our bodies and it's what's called a biogenic amine. So what that means is we have like these regular run of the mill, everyday amino acids going about their business and our bodies. And then along comes a particular type of enzyme. Mm-Hmm. . And it cuts off part of a regular amino acid and turns it into a more powerful and potent molecule, which is histamine. So histamine is a biogenic amine. So it's being transformed.

And whenever I think about that transformation, I always think of the incredible Hulk. Yep. So you've got these like amino acid that gets assaulted and part of it's structured cutoff and then it like gets enraged and turns into the Hulk. Yeah, - That's a good analogy. I like that. - Anyway, that's my geeky - . But it's a good way to explain to people who, what was the term used, the scientific term of an amine? A - Biogenic amine. A - Biogenic amine.

See sometimes when people listen to words like that, I know there are people out there in the audience who are very intelligent and they follow these things, but they're also people who get lost with some of those explanations sometimes. So sometimes if you can correlate it to a, a relatable story, it helps them retain it. I - Just feel a bit silly when I, when I talk about my analogies, I seem so nerdy. But I do also like to use the proper words as well.

Because when people are reading the literature, if they do come across it, it might just ring a bell for them and they have an understanding of what they're reading. - And you do have an audience of learned people who are responding to you as well. I do. - Hmm. Yeah. But it's not great for our bodies to have all of these like incredible hulks constantly rampaging around inside of us.

So the way histamine is designed is that, um, it's short-lived, so as soon as it's done its job, which is to deliver a certain message to a particular target cell, it gets destroyed. Which is really important because histamine and there are some other different types of biogenic amines, if they build up too much in the body, they can be actually highly toxic and cause a lot of health problems. So that's not good. And another way I like to think of histamine is like a bouncer.

Mm-Hmm. at a pub or a club. So its job is basically to get rid of something that's bothering us. So classic example is pollen. Yep. But sometimes like bouncers who can get a little bit hotheaded and can overact to things that are harmless, that can happen in our bodies as well. So I guess that's what we're gonna focus on today.

When things don't go as planned. Look at - You queen of the analogies today, and - I'm on a roll and I, but I do just, I really find it helps when you're trying to learn or grasp concepts. - Yeah. Grasp the retention. - Yeah. So most people will be familiar with histamine because of its rolling allergic reactions, which is why people take antihistamine medications. Yep. But what they may not know is that it's also involved in the regulation of our guts and our digestion.

It acts as a neurotransmitter like serotonin and dopamine. It's involved in our sleep weight cycle is required for arousal and sexual function, alertness, learning memory, blood pressure. So there's a lot of things beyond allergies that histamine plays an important role in. But because of the allergy side of it, most people think histamine like is a bad thing, but it's not bad. We absolutely need it. It just needs to be in balance in the body. Yep.

Which is easier said than done in a lot of instances. And we'll talk about that too today. Mm. Good. So that's histamine. What's more relevant is what triggers it to be released in the body. So histamine gets released from certain types of immune cells and the one that most people will be familiar with are called mast cells. So mast cells will release histamine when our immune system is triggered by an external threat.

So that could be an injury, an infection, uh, an allergen, like I said, pollen's, the classic example from the environment. It could be something you eat or your dog eats. I'll just stop to explain that we, when I say we in this podcast, it's people and pets. Yep. So we is us and we is our dogs. Yep. As well. It's just easier than saying Yeah, that's a good humans and dogs. Hey, - Before we progress any further, what is a mass cell? - It's a type of immune cell. Okay. I thought I said that.

- . Did you? Yeah. I must have just had my husband ears on and not heard that part. - That's right. That's why I'm impressed when you repeat things I say. Yeah. Yep. Um, so it is, it's a type of immune cell. Okay. So environmental allergens can trigger mast cells to release histamine. But you know, foods that we eat as well and foods that our dogs eat.

So if we consume something that causes an internal reaction that could act locally in the gut and trigger things like vomiting and diarrhea, or it can go into the bloodstream and affect other parts of the body. So when histamine is in the body, it creates our blood vessels to dilate. So you get that inflammatory response. Mm-Hmm. . And that's what most people experience with, for example, hay fever. So the rainy nose, the itchy eyes, puffy face, the rash, the hives, all of those symptoms.

Uh, our body's way of trying to get rid of something that we don't want. Mm-Hmm. . So a foreign invader in the body. So mucus secretions or any bodily fluid's a great strategy for our body to try and get rid of things. So when, you know, when you've got a cold and you get, you know, yellowy green snot Yeah. - It's trying to flush it - Out. Yeah. Trying to get rid of the bacteria. Mm-Hmm. diarrhea and vomiting and classic examples of the body trying to eliminate stuff.

Yep. So mast cells, because of their role, they're found mainly where our mucus membranes meet the external environment because that's where these antigens or foreign invaders are most likely to gain access to us. So things like the gastrointestinal tract, the skin and the respiratory tract. So in humans, most of our mast cells are in the respiratory tract. That's why we get really congested and snotty and fine when we react to things. But it's a little bit different for dogs.

So dogs have relatively more mar cells close to the skin surface. So if a dog's gonna react to something, it's more likely to manifest as a skin problem. Right. So rash hotspots. Yeah. Things like that. And well that's a, - That's a good note because there's been a lot of confusion and misdiagnosis around hotspots.

- Yeah. It's not to say that that's the only thing for, for all the symptoms we talk about today in relation to histamine, you know, there are a lot of other things that could be triggering the same symptom. So it's never just one thing, but I'm just putting it in people's minds that histamine could be part of the puzzle. Yep. Uh, that they need to consider.

And if we even think about it from an evolutionary perspective with our dogs, so let's say our dog gets bitten by a flea and the, they react to the flea saliva. Mm-Hmm. that's gonna trigger the Mars cells to release histamine. Histamine causes vasodilation, which causes itching, which makes the dog scratch and scratching's like a mechanical means to eliminate the irritant. Mm-Hmm. . And the same thing happens with the gut.

So histamine causes increased gastrointestinal motility, which triggers diarrhea, which you know, is a great way for our dogs to get rid of parasites and worms. Yep. So it does have a purpose, but you don't want it to stay chronically elevated like in the body. Mm-Hmm. , I guess that's what we're talking about. So antihistamine medication is typically taken to control and calm down that histamine response.

The problem is, unless you really sort of figure out the underlying trigger, taking antihistamine medication really is just a bandaid solution.

So you know, you need to think about if you're getting, like, if you're just reacting to a lot of things or your dog is really highly reactive and you don't know why, I always say come back to diet, you know, is your diet adequate or are there nutrient gaps that's causing say your mucus membranes to lack in integrity and you know that they're our first line of defense against the external world.

Mm-Hmm. . So if we're not eating a diet that's nutrient replete and our mucus membranes are compromised, then our immune systems are compromised and we're more likely to react. Yeah. And taking antihistamine medications, I know some people take them for a long term every day and feel that they need to, but because of histamine's essential role in like our mood and our gut function, like there can be some unpleasant side effects if you do take antihistamine medications long term.

Right. It's funny because in clinic people will often come and see me with symptoms that they want remedied. And you know, I'll go through like their list of medications that they're on and I'm like, wow, you know, there's a good chance that your symptoms are due to your medications. Mm-Hmm. . So that's tricky. - It's kind of like people write who take indigestion drugs and so forth to stop their gastro reflux, intestinal reflux and so forth. And I think that long-term that's quite significant.

- Yeah. Yeah. Not good. I should do a whole show on protein pump inhibitors and reflux medications. 'cause a lot of people don't realize just how nasty the long-term side effects are of - Well why don't you put that on your scope because I think that is one worth talking about because there's been a lot of people I've known throughout my life who've been on those sort of medications and they've constantly got health problems.

Even in my limited capacity of knowing some of this knowledge, I've said to 'em, I think you really need to look at your diet and and your lifestyle at the moment because, you know, just being told to take this drug long term, I don't think that's gonna solve the problem. I think it's going to put a lid on it for a period of time and manifest in other areas.

- Yeah. And you know, I get dog clients and you know, on their intake paperwork I'll see that the vets put them on some acid suppressing medications as well. And I always sort of cringe a little bit and need to question why that's the case. But yeah, keep that in mind for a future episode. Yeah. - Anyway, back to histamine. Back to - Histamine. So under normal circumstances, like small amounts of histamine, you know, going about its daily business in our body is fine.

Mm-Hmm. But it's the situations that lead to excessive histamine exposure, which creates problems but, and it's like anything, you know, the dose makes the poison. Mm-Hmm. Same with histamine. So I've mentioned that histamine is naturally produced in our bodies, but it's also found in a lot of foods that we eat and that our dogs eat. Now if you've got a healthy gut, you can generally tolerate larger amounts of histamine coming in through the diet.

But as I've said, I think in every episode, like more and more of us have compromised gut. And so we struggle with even small amounts of histamine. And you know, a couple of reasons for this is the whole leaky gut situation. So, you know, if you're eating an inflammatory diet, whether that's kibble for dogs or just the standard Australian and American diet for us Mm-Hmm. , um, alcohol processed foods.

So anything that damages the gut is going to allow more food proteins into the bloodstream, which is gonna trigger an immune response in a histamine release. Yep. But another one of the key reasons for a potential buildup of histamine in the body is we've got a couple of enzymes whose job it is to destroy histamine once it's done its job. And the main one is called diamine oxidase or just DAO. Now it's located in only certain organs in the body.

So you know, the intestines, the kidney and the liver. So anything that causes damage to those organs is automatically gonna affect the function of this enzyme. Meaning that we can't break down histamine as well as we need to. - Isn't the body just remarkable when you think about it? Like all the positive and negative actions that are constantly going on within us. You kind of don't think of yourself as this machine with all of this internal life pumping around inside your own body.

It's full on. That's it really is, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Like when you get into the nerdy side of it, when you look at it, I know they did this cartoon and they had parts of the body where like it was a bit of like normal reality where somebody was eating something and that, you know, then, uh, there were characters inside the body who were acting as police to stop all the bacteria. I, I can't remember what the show was,

but you know, it really is a fascinating thing. Sounds - Like a show I'd - Like to watch. Yeah, it is. It's right down your alley. But - Even if we think of this enzyme whose job it is to break down histamine so it doesn't build up, it requires certain, like they're called essential co-factors. So vitamins and minerals like vitamin B six, vitamin C, copper and zinc. You know, it needs those to work properly. So if you're not giving the enzyme what it needs to work properly, it can't do its job.

Yep. And some people can have a genetic polymorphism or a variation in that DAO enzyme so it doesn't work as well. That can also make people more prone to histamine intolerance, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. So dogs and people can be quite prone to this and it can increase histamine levels in the body because some microbes actually produce histamine as a byproduct of their metabolism.

Mm-Hmm. . So with all of that, the main problem occurs when we eat more histamine than our body can deal with. And this can lead to a range of symptoms that most people may not relate back to diet and particularly histamine. And now symptoms will always differ from person to person. But some of the most common symptoms of excess histamine include neurological symptoms because of its role as a neurotransmitter.

So people might experience irritability, depression, brain fog, anxiety, headaches and migraines is really common. And there's another biogenic amine called tyramine, which is like notorious for triggering headaches and migraines. Unexplained fatigue can be a result of increased histamine. Histamine can also trigger adrenaline. So for people who are quite sensitive, that could cause anxiety symptoms.

So racing, heart, nausea, sweating, insomnia, shortness of breath, sort of how I feel when I'm doing my podcast - Episodes. - I have the adrenaline pumping people have no idea. Then we've got the typical like the skin symptoms, you rashes, flushing, hives, eczema, tissue swelling, just general inflammation which might present, you know, as joint pain and stiffness, cardiovascular symptoms, things like high blood pressure and irregular heartbeat.

The gut symptoms we've sort of touched on, you know, diarrhea, abdominal pain and cramps. Any of those sort of IBS symptoms could be related back to histamine. Yep. Nausea, reflux and heartburn. You know, the typical hay fever symptoms, you know, nasal congestion, sinusitis, postnasal, drip, chronic cough. So some people, you know, they don't realize they're just sort of doing constantly. Mm-Hmm. that could just be an immune response and a histamine response triggering that.

And hormones. So you can have hormonal abnormalities. So irregular menstrual cycles and PMS hot flushes. So they're mainly related to women in dogs. You know, you're looking for things like, you know, itching and scratching, excess mucus from the eyes and the nose sneezing any skin issues, you know, rashes, swelling, diarrhea, vomiting. And I don't know if, for our listeners, way back when I started my natural health for people on pet's Facebook page, I put up some pictures of pixel.

- Oh yeah. Where she got all those blotches all over and yeah that was, that was quite a alarming. So - That was an example of an acute allergic reaction. And that's a classic histamine response. Like poor pixel, she was just covered in swellings. Her face, her paws, her legs, her underbelly just, - It happened multiple times. - Happened a couple of times and each time within an hour she just blew up. Yep. Poor baby. Yeah. Like - Blotches all over her face. Skin body, belly, legs.

- Yeah. So if you wanna see the photos, scroll back to the beginning of my Facebook page 'cause that was so cute. We just treated that with an antihistamine med and that cleared it up and she's being good. Yep. But I wanna spend just a couple of minutes talking about women and histamine intolerance because this is really interesting. So women are generally more intolerant and this is just humans. I don't know if this applies to dogs, maybe it does because it's based on estrogen.

- Somebody out there might know. Yeah. - I surprised I haven't even thought to look into that. Well - Now you've got a project. Yeah. - Yeah. So women are generally more intolerant of histamine than men and they suspect this is the case because estrogen and histamine reinforce each other. So estrogen increases histamine and vice versa. Histamine causes increased estrogen.

So because women naturally have higher levels of estrogen in their bodies than men, it means they also naturally have higher levels of histamine than men. And so, you know, it stands a reason that it would take smaller amounts of high histamine foods. And we're gonna talk about what they are shortly. Mm-Hmm. to overwhelm those histamine destroying enzymes in the body for women than men.

Now the connection between histamine and estrogen, it's important to think about because women may be more sensitive to high histamine foods during those points in their cycle when estrogen levels are highest. Mm-Hmm. . So at around ovulation and about a week before they get their period, sorry guys that we we're talking about this, but it's important. Hmm. Histamine also triggers nitric oxide release in the arteries around the brain being a vasodilator. So this can lead to migraine.

So you think about, you know, a lot of women, you don't probably don't know this, but a lot of women get menstrual migraines. And this may be due to, you know, you get a peak in estrogen levels, premenstrually. And this can stimulate histamine, which stimulates nitric oxide, which stimulates a migraine. Mm-Hmm. . So for women who experience a lot of, you know, menstrual headaches, migraines or PMS, - That could be a contributing factor. - Histamine absolutely could be a contributing factor.

It's also part of histamines action in the body stimulate uterine contraction. So again, high histamine levels may exacerbate like premenstrual cramps because of its role with estrogen. Women have a higher level of a particular type of histamine receptor in their brains than men do. So our brains are more sensitive to histamine. So that whole, not tonight honey, I've got a headache. It's a thing. Oh it's a - . - And even if it's not, that's my story and I'm sticking to it .

And what's really fascinating just before we get off the women's health, is women typically experience relief from allergies and can tolerate histamine much better when they're pregnant because the placenta produces up to 500 times the normal amount of that DAO enzyme that destroys histamine. And this is a way to protect the fetus from histamine toxicity. Wow. So isn't that fascinating? - It is like that, again, that goes back to my whole fascination on how the body can go into these positive

and negative spins. Yeah. - Mm-Hmm. All my PM sy women listeners just try a low histamine diet for a couple months and see if it makes a difference. So - Speaking of now that you've sort of brushed on the diet, and I might may be racing ahead of what you've planned, is there any foods that are really strong contributors to histamine? Yes. And that was probably on the agenda, - Wasn't it? An awesome segue. . Okay. Yeah, there are. So some foods naturally have more histamine in them. Mm-Hmm.

Like to start with. But then there are other foods that might start with low histamine levels, but then the levels build up over time as the food ages. Right. And there's lots of like, it's so easy to Google histamine foods and you'll get all these great tables of high, low and moderate histamine content. - I'm thinking red meat would be a high histamine food. - Well the worst offenders are the fermented and soured foods. So things like sauerkraut and vinegar and soy sauce, Kafi and Boch.

- Right. - Kombucha. Mm-Hmm. We call it bouch around here. Yep. Um, and you know, vinegar containing foods, pickles, olives, alcoholic beverages. So red wine is a classic high histamine beverage. Okay. As if beer and champagne. Mm-Hmm. cured meats. So any of those sort of processed meats. Bacon, salami, - No, no - Luncheon meats. Hot dogs. No one should be eating hot dogs. Anyway, canned foods, particularly canned fish. So sardines, mackerel, herrings and trophies. Yep.

This can be, I'm gonna talk about dogs a bit more specifically soon, but can sardines and mackerel and stuff, people will often give their dogs Mm-Hmm. aged cheeses. So meat in itself is not high histamine, but if you cooked some meat and left it in the fridge and had it a couple of days later for lunch Mm-Hmm. over that time, the histamine levels will be increasing

- Significantly. Uh, - I dunno what the number values are, but the reason that this happens is, so when histamine's released in our bodies, we've got mechanisms in place to sort of break it down, destroy it, and get rid of it. Mm-Hmm. . But in food, if it's not immediately consumed, so microorganisms like yeast and bacteria that are naturally present in the food, they start to break down those amino acids into biogenic amines.

Okay. And those biogenic amines like histamine, they don't get destroyed in food. So they just build up. So the older the food is, the higher the biogenic amine level is. Mm-Hmm. . And I'll give you some examples. So it's not just histamine, but the examples I'm giving, it's just because their names make me laugh when you think that we're eating this stuff, I mentioned tyramine and that's a common one in like aged cheeses that can trigger headaches.

But the other ones are Racine, - Racine - Cadaver. Mm. And sperm aine. So - . So we've got putrid, cadaver and sperm. Yeah. - So I'm thinking, you know, cadaver maybe was first discovered on a dead body. Mm-Hmm. Racine on rotting flesh or meat and sperm. Let's just not go there. Yep. Yep. Dried fruits, you know.

Ah, the vegetables. So avocados, eggplants, spinach, tomatoes, low histamine diet typically needs to be a fresh food diet because of the way that histamine levels increase when the food ages. But there's a lot of really healthy foods that are high in histamine. So, you know, avocado classic. I have a lot of clients who have to go on a sort of a low histamine diet that just - Are traumatized that they can't have avo smash anymore. Yeah. - That's it. Most citrus fruits really ripe bananas.

Like any really rip fruits, kiwi fruit, pineapple, papaya, uh, nuts such as walnuts, cashews, peanuts, again peanuts. Some dog people might use peanut butter to stuff. A Kong with stuff. - Is that some of the reasons why people have such high allergens to some nuts? Would they be causing like a, an acute histamine reaction or something like that? - Well, anaphylaxis, I guess it's part of it. It's more involved. Okay. Than that. Yeah. Much more involved than that.

I'll just finish off with the foods. Mm. So chocolate processed foods of all types. Preservatives. So same with dog food as well. Like kibble with preservatives high in histamines. And because aged meats are so high in histamine, I imagine that those jerky type treats for dogs, like the macco type treats will be high in histamine as well. So if you think about that food list, it's all the good things in life. Like cheese, chocolate, wine. Yeah. And ba bacon.

- I know. Sorry. I know. It's, it's a cruel irony. - And it's not to say that people need, like everyone needs to give up all of that that I've just mentioned. But for people who are suffering particular health problems and symptoms, they may need to for a period of time. Mm-Hmm. . So I like to think of the body as a bucket. So to fill the bucket with histamine, we've got what our body makes ourselves.

We've got what comes in through the diet and then the tap to empty the bucket is that DIO enzyme. So we don't want a bucket to ever overfill. So that's when we reach our threshold and everyone's bucket's gonna be a different size. Mm-Hmm. . So everyone's got a different threshold. So some people can like binge on high histamine foods forever and you know, be great and then others will have a glass of wine and be flushed and headachey.

Yep. And the other thing with that tap, like the DAO enzyme, there are actually foods which block its action as well. So foods can stop the breakdown of histamine by inhibiting that enzyme. And a big one that does that is alcohol. Right? So red wine, it's a double whammy. It is high in histamine. Mm-Hmm . And it blocks the enzyme we need to break down histamine. Right. Energy drinks will do that as well. And black and green tea will do that. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs will do that.

Plus they damage the gut. So that's a double whammy. Mm-Hmm. as well. So if we bring it back to dogs, allergies is a big dog issue that I treat in clinic. You know, one of the first things you need to do is assess the diet.

And on the online forums, if anyone asks for help in treating their dog's skin or gut issues, one of the first things they're told to do is give, you know, bone broth or for minted foods such as like apple cider vinegar or kafi or sauerkraut, you know, to support the dog's gut health.

But all of those things, you know, they might be great and healthy and beneficial for the average healthy dog and person that could be making matters worse and exacerbating the issue in a dog that's prone to allergies and histamine intolerance. Right. A lot of people online, you know, will also be told to give their dog a probiotic again to support gut health. But even certain probiotics can trigger histamine release and make matters worse.

So there's certain histamine producing bacteria, there's not a heap of research around the different strains, but some of the top ones, lactobacillus helveticus, streptococcus thermophilic, lactobacillus del Brue, lactobacillus bulgaricus. So if you're looking at labels, you know, have a look for those. And again, it's not all or nothing. So everyone's got a threshold. Dogs have a threshold.

If you've got those strains of bacteria in a probiotic, but it's you just giving small doses, you know, chances are it's not a problem. Mm-Hmm. . But if your dog's chronically suffering, I would say still cut it out for the time being, people might be told that they should feed more oily fish to increase the omega three fatty acid content of their dog's diet to reduce, you know, that in inflammatory response and to support the integrity of the skin barrier.

And you know, for raw food feeders they might do that by adding in some sardines to the dog's diet. But for convenience they may use canines. So I know I use canines. Mm-Hmm. , I'm lazy like that - . - Oh just driving to the fish guy just seems so far away. Yep. But you know, canines are really high in histamine. So they again could be just exacerbating the allergic response or the skin issue in the dog.

A lot of raw food feeders might make up big batches of like raw food and it may sit there for a few days in the fridge before it gets sort of packed up and frozen. But the longer it's sitting there, the more the histamine is building up in the food. - That's important to know, right. That the faster that it's prepared and frozen, the better it'll be and the less histamine that will have around it. Yep. Well there you go. I've just learned something 'cause I would not have known that.

- Yeah. So it is better to make up a batch and immediately freeze it in small portions and just defrost one day's worth of food at a time. Which isn't convenient when you've got a lot of dogs or you've got big dogs and you wanna try and defrost more. But again, we're talking about a specific population here. So these are dogs that are chronically suffering from skin or gut issues. So the average dog, this doesn't really apply.

It's not just raw. So histamine has been found to be high in commercial pet foods for you know, combination of reasons including the preservatives they need to use. But there's one study I was reading that said, you know, the levels are not high enough to cause a reaction. But I always think, yeah, maybe not in healthy dogs 'cause they can, you know, deal with it and detoxify and break down those amines.

But if you've got puppies or you know, reproducing females or sick dogs, you know, they could be more prone to reacting because their threshold's gonna be potentially lower. Mm-Hmm. So with all of that, I guess the question is, you know, what can we do about it? Yep. It always comes back to the gut. I think again, in every episode I've highlighted the important role of gut health. Mm. In overall health. So you wanna look for gut healing.

Supplements that include ingredients like L-glutamine, aloe vera, deg, gly, rice licorice, marshmallow roots, li Elm. And that's for people and dogs. I've got a product that I use for both mm-Hmm , it's the same product and it's great. It's got all of those good things in it. If there's any suspected small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, like you really need to address that first. Otherwise you sort of just, what's the expression?

- Robbing Peter to pay Paul - Pushing something uphill with - , pushing shit uphill. - Something like that. - Literally with intestines. - And even avoiding common food allergens that may not be high in histamine but they may be aggravating the gut enough to like trigger that leaky gut situation. So for people the top sort of allergic foods are wheat eggs, dairy, like cow's milk, soy and tree nuts, which are things like almonds, walnuts, and pecans. Mm-Hmm. shellfish.

And for dogs, you know, you might just eliminate or reduce gluten containing grains, dairy, chicken and beef are common allergens in dogs and eggs. So sort of you need to do a, again if, if someone's suffering chronically you need to sort of - Go on a diet elimination. - Yeah. You need to be more comprehensive in what you're doing and not just sort of do a couple of little things that you really do need to go the whole hog and see what makes a difference.

Yep. And then slowly reintroduce things and monitor the response. There are probiotics that actually decrease histamine production. So you wanna look for strains like bifidobacterium infantis, bifidobacterium longum, lactobacillus Plantarum, lactobacillus Gnosis, lactobacillus Gase and smi his Boi. So I love SB for people and dogs and our shepherd. Randy's always on SB because as a shepherd he's just so prone to allergies and yeasty ears and things like that and it's very safe.

So I love that one. Manage your stress levels, manage your dog's stress levels because again, stress negatively impacts the gut for women. You know, look at your hormones and if you do have signs of estrogen, excess address that. And that might mean a diet and supplement regime to sort of target that phase two liver detoxification pathways or you know, liver support and things like that. Yep. If you're gonna do a low histamine diet, I recommend it needs to be at least four weeks.

I'd say probably eight weeks. Right. Would be better to get a better idea of what's going on. Mm-Hmm. . And some of the supplements you can add, again these are for people and dogs, vitamin C is awesome. It helps to break down histamine, making sure there's adequate vitamin B six because that's needed for that DAO enzyme to work properly. Cetin like I wouldn't know of any allergy sort of protocol that didn't include qua eatin.

- What's qua eatin? - It's a bio flavonoid. That - Didn't really answer my question . You just, just complicated it with another - Complication. It's an awesome compound present in like brightly colored fresh fruits and vegetables. Right? Yeah. Okay. P my favorite compound parol ethanol amide acronym P. It's great. There's a lot of research in dogs specifically as well as people for pee for allergic responses and it's really safe and it comes in powder or capsules.

So that's always part of my allergy protocol. Mm-Hmm. . Then you've got all your herbs bagel, skull cup, Nigel Tiva, which is black cumin al Busia Holy basil. 'cause that's great for stress. I love nettle. So even with our dogs, every now and then, I'll just make up some like herbal nettle tea. Particularly if, you know if pixels, she can tend to get reactive on the her pads. Mm-Hmm there's still something in our yard we need to figure out Mm.

What triggers her. So you might make up some herbal tea, you let it cool and just, you know, add a quarter of a cup, half a cup depending on the size of your dog into their food once or twice a day. Yep. Digestive enzymes like we spoke about last episode, you can take them with meals or between meals to reduce the risk of immune activation from food molecules entering into the bloodstream, which then you know, triggers mast cells to release histamine.

Mm-Hmm. you can actually buy supplements of that DAO enzyme. It's not approved by the TGA for use in Australia. So I can't prescribe it to my clients. Right. But I know it's easily accessible in the US and it's not to say that Australian people can't buy it, it's just because it's not TGA approved. I can't prescribe it. Does it work? I don't know because I can't use it. I don't really, you dunno enough about it? Yeah. I've never really looked into it.

It's like CBD oil, you know, I think it's amazing but because I don't use it because I can't yet legally with the tga. MM-Hmm. I, you know, I haven't spent the time researching it, sort of looking into it in any depth. You can do pathology testing for blood histamine and DAO levels, but it's not really gonna change the treatment protocol. Mm-Hmm. . So if you've got symptoms like just I think the best approach for people and dogs is dietary changes for, you know, four to eight weeks.

Really sort of hone in on the diet and just always monitor symptoms. We forget, we always think we're gonna remember how we felt today versus in four weeks versus in eight weeks. Yep. People don't, yep. Any of my clients, you know, will probably know. I always ask out 10, you know, what's this out of 10 today? Yep. And then in you know, four weeks I ask them and they'll say, oh just the same. They'll say, you know, seven outta 10 I'll be like, oh actually last time you were five out of 10.

But they feel the same. Yep. Or they think they feel the same. I'm like, well actually you, you know you're feeling better. Yeah. So I love rating scales. Sorry, on the herbal T. So nettle is awesome for allergies but you can also use other herbal T blends. So chamal, calendula, dandelion root and milk thistle. So you know, supporting that liver function, red clover burdock for lymphatics and gotchu cola, which is great for any skin and sort of immune issues. I love cola as well.

I guess that's it in a nutshell for histamine and what it is and what foods it's in and what you can do to sort of lower it. - Well I got to learn something today 'cause I knew nothing about any of that. - Well that's good. Yeah. I hope our listeners got something out of it as well. - I just know that when I get histamine related issues, go and take an antihistamine.

- Yeah, well maybe you should just, oh, and so I guess I should say with dogs, with the environmental allergens, you know I've got some dog clients where it's pretty full on. And as well as addressing the internal aspects of, you know, with supplements and diet and things like that, we actually need to remove as best we can. The environmental allergens like pollen.

So for a dog that's got chronic skin issues, if they go for a walk when they come home, I might say, you know, you either need to wipe your dog down with a damp cloth. Mm-Hmm or wipe in between their toes or give them a bath or whatever. Because if you can reduce the burden, then that's what we're aiming for to sort of get under that threshold of histamine response. So - Food for thought. Food - For thought.

Mm. So as always, if you've got anything you wanna contribute or questions you wanna ask about the episode, jump onto my Facebook page. Natural Health for People and Pets. Mm-Hmm. , if you wanna find out more about me, jump onto my website. Yep. Natural health and nutrition.com au. Yep. Um, you can email me Yes. At noelle at natural health and nutrition.com au. - They can attend one of your seminars.

- My seminar on the 20th of Feb in Canberra. So if - That's starting to fill up now - Numbers are growing so getting quick because there's a limited special for the first 30 people that buy a ticket to get a free bottle of anol worth $62. Mm-Hmm. . So contact Eleni at All Round Good Hounds. But all those details are on my website so you can check it out there y'all. Yeah.

- And if they wanna book you for a seminar, they just go through any one of those media contact portals and they can get a hold of you. - And if none of that works, contact Glen - - 'cause everyone knows you. Mm. Okay. So we'll leave you there for today. Okay. Thanks everyone. Bye. Bye.