Episode 8: Digestive enzymes

- Welcome to the Natural Health for People in Pets podcast, a show that aims to empower you with the knowledge and tools needed to take control of your own health and wellbeing, as well as providing health promoting strategies for the dogs in your life. The world of health and nutrition can be overwhelming, so what better way to understand what works and what doesn't, what's evidence-based and what's not, then to hear it from someone in the know.

So, please welcome your host of the show, accredited naturopath and nutritionist Nelle Cook. - Welcome back to Natural Health for People and Pets. I'm your co-host of the show, Glen Cook, but now it's over to the real talent of the show. Narelle Cook. - Hello everyone. - Welcome back to your own show. Yeah, - It's good to be back. Always good to be back. Yeah, it's great to be back. I love doing what I do. Mm. So today it's a people and pets episode for both.

So covering both and I thought we'd talk about digestive enzymes. It comes up a lot for me in clinic with my human clients. I see it come up a lot online on the dog forums. Mm-Hmm. for dogs. I thought we'd just sort of run through the nitty gritty of digestive enzymes - Every time we go out for a nice restaurant and have a bit of alcohol and so forth, you always come back and give me a little tablet and say, here, you need to take this. And every time I say, what is it?

And you say it's digestive enzymes. - That's funny because if we've been out and we've had a few drinks, I'll most likely give you a liver supplement. If we've had like a big meaty meal. Like tonight we're having beef ribs. Yep. We are definitely getting digestive enzyme. - Yeah. That digestive enzymes. - So most people would've heard of the saying, you know, you are what you eat, but the fact is, we are what we assimilate or absorb.

Mm-Hmm. . So it doesn't matter if you're eating the healthiest diet there is, it's not really gonna benefit you if you're not actually breaking it down and absorbing the nutrients from that food. - Yeah. Well that makes a lot of sense because I've heard you often saying that your stomach is your second brain. - Yeah. I mean it's key. We need nutrition for every aspect of health. So if that's compromised, overall health is compromised in so many different ways.

Mm-Hmm. . And the fact is digestive disorders are super common. So at least 50% of Australian adults, and I'm sure it's the same, you know, in other developed countries such as the US especially Mm-Hmm. experience, digestive symptoms such as bloating, gas, constipation, and even they say like one in seven experience symptoms that are so distressing that it affects their day-to-day life.

So they may not be able to socialize to the extent that they want to or exercise, or it may impact their ability to work just because, you know, maybe they always need like a bathroom close by, things like that. Mm. So that's really sad, but it's not just us. It's a similar situation, unfortunately with dogs. And they did a study only in 2015 to assess the prevalence of common canine health problems that presented to this particular veterinary hospital.

Mm-Hmm. . And the result of that study showed that digestive problems were the highest recorded problems among dogs. Wow. Which is sad, but not surprising given the type of diet that most pet dogs are fed these days. Mm-Hmm. So if we're gonna talk about enzymes, let's start with what are they? Yeah, so enzymes are protein molecules. So they catalyze, which means they trigger or they accelerate chemical reactions in the body. Basically they help to turn one thing into something else.

So our cells contain thousands of enzymes, and these chemical reactions are constantly occurring. So life wouldn't exist without enzymes. Mm-Hmm. So they're our metabolic enzymes. Mm-Hmm. . Today we're gonna focus on digestive enzymes. So they catalyze the breakdown of food that then allows the nutrients to be released and absorbed into the bloodstream.

So if we're not producing enough digestive enzymes, this is where we can lead to issues such as nutrient deficiencies and the downstream health effects of that. - Is Crohn's got anything to do with that? - Oh, it absolutely would. So any inflammatory state of the intestinal tract is definitely gonna compromise nutrient absorption in enzyme synthesis. Yep. But we can touch on that a bit more. Sure.

So we produce digestive enzymes in our saliva from the pancreas and from what's called the brush border membrane of the small intestine. And what's interesting, a lot of the listeners might know, particularly the dog people, there's always that statement online that dogs don't produce any saliva amylase, which means, you know, they shouldn't be fed any carbohydrates, even though they produce enough pancreatic amylase to deal with some carbohydrate in the diet.

But in humans, sali amylase is considered a valid and reliable biomarker of disease progressions due to the way that stress impacts health outcomes because it's triggered by sympathetic nervous system activation. Mm-Hmm. . So it was interesting, there was a study done only a few years ago to see if that stimulation of sympathetic activity in dogs would also trigger saliva amylase production.

Mm-Hmm. . And at the end of the study, they did find that triggering that sympathetic nervous system response produced some amylase in dogs. So they do produce some amylase. Mm-Hmm. very low level. So, you know, probably nothing significant diet-wise, but what made me laugh about the study, and I shouldn't laugh as a scientist, I should be just like, oh yeah, that's cool.

But when I was reading through the methodology of the study, the way they triggered sympathetic activation in the dogs was to get them to ejaculate. - Wow. So, okay. . - And that wasn't the bit that made me laugh. I raised an eyebrow, I went, Hmm, okay. That is one way you can do that. That - Would be embarrassing in the bedroom, wouldn't it? You just suddenly started drooling. That's .

- Yes, it would. But when I was reading through a bit further, the way they actually, and again, I'm embarrassed that this made me laugh, , the, the way that they got them to ejaculate was quote unquote digital manipulation. So when I read that in my mind, I'm like, oh, AKA hand job. 'cause digital manipulation that's using the hand or the digits to manipulate. - Well, I'm thinking like, it would've been like a prosthetic,

like a cow milking thing or something. Well, - I dunno, digital manipulation, it sounds like a human hand. And then they had an artificial vagina to sort of capture everything. Anyway, sorry I digress from the topic today, but - Wouldn't that be digit manipulation rather than digital? Oh, unless it's digital sort of, uh, resounds electronics to me, - Unless it did say digit, either way, it's irrelevant. , it made me laugh and I thought, I'm, I'm such a child. When I read things like that,

I just sit there and giggle to myself. Well, - Made me giggle. - Anyway, that's how they stimulated their nervous system and it worked. Yep. - So, okay. - So maybe if you're gonna feed your dog carbohydrates, you know what to do. - What? Get - Your dog to ejaculate - You. - All right. Maybe we'll cut that out. . Okay. So that's what enzymes are.

So there are different types of enzymes, like there's lots of different types, but I'm just gonna sort of touch on the key ones that most people will come across when they're looking at, say, supplements, for example. Mm-Hmm. . So you've got your proteases. They can also be called peptidase proteolytic enzymes or ass. And as the name suggests, they break down proteins into amino acids. Then you've got your lipases, which break down fats.

And if you think about medications that work for weight loss, things like lestat, which was also called xal from memory. So they work by inhibiting intestinal lipase enzymes. So they prevent the breakdown of fat. And that's how they work for weight loss. So if someone on that medication eats fat, basically they're gonna get pretty quickly liquid diarrhea. Right. So I can think of much better ways to lose weight. Mm-Hmm. Than experiencing liquid diarrhea every time you eat some fat.

- Is that the only sort of after effect that happens? - I mean, that's the main one. And that's the motivator not to eat fat for those people. Yep. But the problem with that is, if you are not absorbing fats, and I, you know, this really is one of my soapbox topics. Fat doesn't make us fat. And I think we've sort of progressed to that point. Well, - Healthy fats. - Yeah. Healthy fats, - Not trans fats or any of that ugly substance.

- True. Yeah. There are some nasty fats out there. Mm. But when we are not absorbing fats, we're also not absorbing our fat-soluble vitamins. So things like vitamin A, D, E, and K. And they're fundamental to health, particularly now with viruses all over the place, particularly vitamins A and D for, you know, healthy mucus membranes to sort of stop that invasion. Mm-Hmm. . So that's lipases.

Then we go on to things like amylase, which breaks down carbohydrates to lactase is actually sort of the approved name for lactase. So it breaks down carbohydrates as well, but specifically lactose from dairy products. So if someone experiences diarrhea, bloating, flatulence from consuming milk, taking a lactase enzyme can help with those symptoms. And you know, they say up - Or just don't drink milk. - I know they say up to 75% of people worldwide have some degree of lactose intolerance.

Mm-Hmm. . So, and it's the same with dogs. Like, you know, once we are winged, technically we shouldn't be drinking - Milk . - And then you've got things like cellulase, which is quite common now in formulas, and that breaks down carbohydrates as well. But specifically the insoluble plant fiber cellulose. - Mm-Hmm. . People on the podcast might not know why I said milk's so funny. It's because a very close friend of ours went to a doctor and he couldn't say milk. He said milk.

- Yeah. There's a whole story behind that. It's, it's a funny story, - But it's a funny story. But for another day. For another day, yeah. - So there's some of the types of digestive enzymes. So what might cause us to not produce enough of our own digestive enzymes. So we've always gotta, before we jump onto a supplement, why aren't we making our own adequately - Our own milk? - Milk, , - . - I've never done that before. - And you did it on the podcast .

- So like the environment in which digestive enzymes function is key to their synthesis and their activity. So this means that the health of the digestive tract, you know, from the gastric and the intestinal mucosa, the pH, the composition of the gut microbiota. Mm-Hmm. , you know, they all play critical roles in the process of digestion. So there are lots of aspects to our modern lifestyles that damage that digestive environment.

And then that's automatically gonna reduce our ability to produce digestive enzymes to the degree that we need based on what we're eating. Yep. But that's the thing. Poor diet is probably the biggest factor for impacting our own endogenous production of enzymes. Mm-Hmm. . So foods or drinks that promote inflammation of the intestines. Things like coffee, alcohol, sugar, highly processed foods. So after 60% of Americans are consuming a highly processed diet.

So it's no wonder that, you know, so many people are suffering from digestive complaints when you know, we are destroying our guts with the food that we're eating. Other things like in addition to damage in the gut, alcohol can also negatively impact the pancreas itself. So you know, about a third of acute pancreatitis cases are alcohol induced and up to 90% of pancreatitis patients have a history of chronic alcohol consumption.

Mm-Hmm. , you've got conditions like exocrine, pancreatic insufficiency, that's common. Well, it's not common, but that's in people and dogs as well. German shepherd's actually probably more prone to that, but it can occur in sort of any breed. - Is there any reason for that? Like has it ever been listed or explained why? Oh, - There are, there are multiple possible triggers for, I just call it epi, um, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency.

It could be just, you know, damage to the pancreas due to various factors. Inflammation, it could be due to, you know, dysfunction with the gallbladder or the bile ducts. - My question's related to why is it specific in German Shepherds - Genetic - Disorder or - I don't know, maybe one of the listeners knows and can pop it on the Facebook page. Yeah, that'd - Be good. It'd be interesting to know why that they're so predominantly affected.

- Yeah. So jump on the Facebook page people and let me know. - Yeah. If anyone's got the statistics around why German shepherds are more affected by epi - Physical or psychological stress reduces pancreatic digestive enzyme output. And you know, everyone's just running on adrenaline and stress these days. Mm. I mean, there are other diseases too, like cystic fibrosis that has a massive impact. Inadequate chewing and eating on the run. So remember for humans, we do produce a lot of sylva amylase.

So digestion begins in the mouth. Mm-Hmm. , you know, a lot of people just like chomp, chomp, swallow, I'm looking at someone . Yeah. Right now. But that mechanical breakdown of the food and that's saliva amylase, that's important for overall digestion. So we can't just ignore the fact that that's something we should all be doing. So most people don't chew their food as well. I think. Uh, what's the - Chew your food?

42 times four. That's it. Yeah. Bert Newton, he was one of the morning show hosts. There was a sidekick on his show that used to come and taste food for him. And every time he'd eat the food, Bert would say to him, chew your food 42 times. I - Remember that. Yeah. - Belvedere, the guy. Belvedere, that's Belvedere. - Yep. That's right. Yep. So chew your food people, medications.

Oh my goodness. If anyone is on a proton pump inhibitor for, you know, acid reflux heartburn, that sort of thing, they're one of the worst meds. And I know some people need to be on them, so don't just stop your meds without talking to your doctor. But they're one of the worst because they reduce stomach acid. Mm. You need acid to help break down your food and release the nutrients and absorb them, but you also need acid to trigger certain enzymes into their active form.

So by inhibiting that from happening, proton pump inhibitors have quite serious side effects when used long term, like, you know, over decades. And some people, I get people in clinic who have been on PPIs for like 30 years and the medical guidelines say they should only be for like a few weeks or a few months at the most, but they just get left on them anyway, have a think about that.

And then aging. So as we get older, we naturally produce less digestive enzymes and it decreases by about 10% each decade once we're over 20 years of age. - So, wow. I heard you having this conversation with family the other day talking about pills versus powders. That's - Right. My grandmother is 95 ish - And in unbelievable condition still - Lives alone. Still drives, she probably shouldn't drive, but she does.

- She does Pilates. Yeah, - She's pretty full on, - But she, and she looks like she's about 70. - Yeah. And she was taking a tablet supplement and I said, you should really be on a powder. And I was trying to explain to her that her age, her gastric acid is probably inadequate to be really breaking down a tablet formula and getting all the goodness out of it. Mm-Hmm. So yeah, that was fascinating. Powder's the best if you can tolerate them.

So, you know, there's some of the causes of why we may not be producing enough of our own digestive enzymes.

And I guess the way you'll know if that sort of relates to you, because a lot of people are doing a lot of what I've just mentioned and feel fine, but if you are experiencing like really bad bloating, flatulence, sort of any sort of abdominal discomfort, if you've got IBS or irritable bowel syndrome and that sort of alternating diarrhea and constipation, if you see undigested food in your stools, if you've got stools that float, so that's SSA steatorrhea,

which just means they've got too much fat in them. Mm-Hmm. . So floaty stools or fatty stools, um, if you feel really full quickly, like when you eat, and um, that could also just be a sign that you're not sort of breaking down and processing your food properly. Or if you, you suffer from food intolerances, that's also an indication that you might wanna think about. - So what's the perfect poo? The perfect - Poo is a Bristol stool type four - .

- So you can google the Bristol stool chart and there's a kid's version that is hilarious and there's an adult version, which is serious. And yeah. So a perfect PO should just be a completely well-formed solid round log. And it's funny 'cause in at uni, like - A bratt worst - I guess so. Mm-Hmm. At uni we're always sort of taught that it should enter the water. This is, can you imagine sitting in class having this conversation with a lecturer? It should be like the Titanic.

So it should sort of just . It should enter the water as sort of that. Oh my goodness. - Um, - Hope none of my lecturers, all colleagues are listening anyway. It should just enter the, the water, like the toilet bowl as one continuous, like angled stool. Yeah. - We'll just, and just wait for Kate to push Leo off off the edge of the raft. - . - Oh, okay. - Okay. Well, so , how hell would people, like, how would you get that as a balancing act to be able to watch that all happen?

- Well, you are not watching it happen, but I do recommend, I mean, people find this growth, but it's really important that you look at your poo. - Mm, I agree. The serious side of it. It is, we've just mocked it and made fun of it all. - Um, because it does, I - Get people out there outrage saying, oh Glen, you've just something so important. You've just ridiculed it. That's right. - All the naturopaths will be - Just, that'd be very angry with me. I'll

- Get hate mail shaking your finger. Mm-Hmm, - . Yeah, go ahead. - Yeah, it is important that you look at your poo because it tells us a lot about health and like I said, whether it floats, whether there's mucus, whether there's blood. All those things are really important. - So because I turned 50, I had a bowel cancer test sent to me from the government and I had to put like a little place mat down in the toilet. A like a, what is it? A biodegradable bio? Yeah. A little biodegradable mat.

And I had to poke my poo with a little stick and put it in a tube. I had to do that twice and then send it off. And fortunately my GP contacted me and said, all clear. Mm-Hmm. . Which was good. But um, they do test it for bowel cancer and blood within the poo. So you have to do like a poke and scrape sort of thing, which is kind of unpleasant, but it's necessary. - It is. And caught early bowel cancer is really treatable. Mm-Hmm. So that's important. But we do digress. Yes.

So sources of enzymes beyond, you know, making our own, they can come from the food we eat and from supplements. So, you know, I love that most fresh food contains enough active enzymes to digest the proteins, the starches or the fat found in that particular food. So for example, avocados and nuts, they're naturally high in lipase to break down the fats in those foods.

Things like oats are naturally high in amylase to break down the starch pineapples got brolin, which is, you know, breaks down protein. It also has some amazing anti-inflammatory effects, which I'm actually gonna touch on later in the podcast because I think it's so important for people to know. Papayas got pepane, which is great for protein. Again, Kiwi people may not realize Kiwi contains an enzyme called actine.

And again, some people might have used it for tenderizing meat, but it's great for constipation. So we're back to the poo. If I have chronically constipated clients that I see in clinic as just sort of a starting point, I might say, look, just have two kiwi fruit, you know, maybe in the afternoon. And then mm-Hmm. and then another two in the evening. So it can also sort of double as a sweet treat if people like something sweet after dinner.

But the enzymes in the kiwi fruit are great for sort of softening the stool and helping it pass Mm-Hmm. outta the body more easily. So give that a go people. Mm-Hmm. fermented foods like unpasteurized fermented foods are a source of enzymes. When we are looking at our dogs products like raw beef pork or lamb pancreas contains like the natural enzymes from those animals and raw green tribes. So raw stripes, it's illegal to sell unwashed tribe in Australia.

So it's usually like heavily bleached and processed and sort of devoid of most of the goodness. But you, why is that? - Why is that a regulatory issue? - I think it's just a safety aspect. It's one of those things I've just accepted. I mean, you can get washed green, trite, like washed raw green, trite for dogs, but for human consumption it has to be bleached. So that's why you only see white trite. - It almost looks like a calamari. Yeah. It's got like a honeycomb sort of texture to it.

- Yeah, that's right. Mm-Hmm. The thing about enzymes, and I, I love how this sort of, and I think this is ties into traditional Chinese medicine, is that most digestive enzymes work best at body temperature. So cold inhibits enzymatic action and you know, cooking or heating destroys it. So if you're gonna feed your dog raw pancreas, like don't cook it.

'cause that defies the point. But it's like in traditional Chinese medicine, they sort of talk against having like frozen foods and very cold foods because you know, it inhibits good digestion. Mm-Hmm. because enzymes, enzymes in the body, you know, there's a set body temperature that they're, - They always say room temp, don't they? - Yeah. Room temperature, you know, body temperature and most metabolic processes in the body sort of operate at an optimal body temperature.

Mm-Hmm. . So any extreme sort of puts those things out of whack. So if we just like pause and think about everything we've spoken about so far, if we look at people, the majority of people are eating highly processed food that's heat treated. Mm-Hmm. . So that's already destroyed the natural enzymes in the food. Then they don't chew their food well. So we are getting less of that action in the mouth. Mm-Hmm. that sort of stage one of enzymatic breakdown.

Yep. Most people are stressed and they eat when they're stressed. So we're getting less gastric acid production and you know, conversion of active enzymes in the stomach. So that's being compromised. Diets are inflammatory, so we're damaging our intestinal mucosa, so we're not getting those intestinal enzymes doing their job. So you can see why most people are suffering from digestive complaints and those health problems that could come from that.

Okay. I just think if people just stopped and thought about that for a bit, like if you're suffering from reflux, you know, that's indicating that something's not operating the way it should. Yeah. So, you know, what could you do differently if you've got irritable bowel syndrome?

I mean, there's lots of compounding factors, but most people like, you know, you want a pill, they just want an easy solution without really pausing and thinking about, well what could I do differently diet wise, stress wise, you know, psychologically things like that to sort of optimize digestion. Hmm. - Yeah. I come from, well as you know, my grandmother had stomach issues and it does range around in my family a fair bit.

One of the other things that I do find interesting is that I've spoken to people before who do have stomach issues, yet they'll down a two liter bottle of Coke or Mountain Dew or something like that. Mm-Hmm. So when I have seen people who have had those severe complaints before, they're usually smashing really, really sugary soft drinks or they're eating really heavily spiced foods or anything like that Mm-Hmm. That just don't agree with their system. That's - Right.

And it's not just about, you know, digestive enzymes. I mean it is, but people don't realize health problems that are related to digestive enzymes and poor gut function. So if someone's depressed and anxious, for example, they'll rarely think about diet or gut health. Mm-Hmm. , you know, PMS for women fatigue, even obesity, you know, that whole overfed and undernourished concept.

Yep. You know, they could all be sort of tied back to poor gut function, poor enzyme production and you know, it goes on from there. Mm-Hmm. So there are quite broad reaching health consequences of poor gut health and you know, we've just spoken about people, but even with dogs, it's no surprise, probably majority of my dog cases in clinic would be allergies and digestive upsets.

Yep. And again, that doesn't surprise me, given that most dogs are on a highly processed, heat treated kibble, which is pro-inflammatory. If you've got a dog that's prone to stress and anxiety, then that's further compromising matters. And a lot of behavioral problems we don't know could be like for people stemming from poor gut health and enzyme function.

Okay. So moving on to what you might be able to do, if you think all of that applies to you or your dog, you might wanna go out and buy a supplement to try. Okay. So supplements for digestive enzymes can originate from three sources. So you can get animal derived Mm-Hmm. plant derived or microbial based. So historically digestive enzymes have come from porcine or bovine sources.

So pig and beef, which, you know, makes 'em inappropriate for vegetarian and vegan patients, for example, they include things such as pancreatin, pepin trypsin, and chima trypsin. And they're particularly important if we're talking dogs for dogs with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. The plant sourced enzymes are those things like bromm lane from pineapple and propane from papaya. Mm-Hmm. . Now, more recently you'll see a lot of what's called microbial derived enzymes.

And they come from fungal or bacterial sources. So they grow, they grow them up on a media, and then they ferment them. And then once the whole process is finished and they extract the enzymes, it doesn't actually contain any microbial residue. So they are suitable for vegetarians. Right. The other great thing about the microbial derived enzymes is that they're stable across a much wider pH range. Mm-Hmm. than the animal-based enzymes.

So they're active in both the acidic stomach environment as well as the alkaline intestines. So when I'm choosing digestive enzyme supplements for my clients or for my, my human clients or my dog clients, I don't have a single go-to product. I'm always trying to pick a formula that suits the presentation of the person or the dog. So if I've got a dog that's on a primarily kibble diet, I'll look for one that's higher in the carbohydrate.

Mm-Hmm. digestive enzymes. If I've got a dog with a history of fat malabsorption or you know, mild pancreatitis, I'll look for one that's higher in, uh, the lipases. For example. The other thing people need to be aware of when they're buying a digestive enzyme is the units of measure. So firstly, always buy a product that actually lists out the enzymes themselves. Because some animal products particularly might just say on the label, contains enzymes, which tells you nothing.

Human products are regulated a lot more strictly. So they tend to list out whether there's lactase, cellulase, amylase, you know, proteases for example. Mm-Hmm. . The other thing is the strength of the enzymes. So enzymes may be present in a product, but unless they're functional, you know, they're not gonna be any good. So a product label should list enzyme strength in what's called standard activity units rather than by weight. Just to give the listeners an example.

So if you pick up a product and the digestive enzyme supplement says it contains 40 milligrams of lipase, and then you pick up another product and it says it contains 20 milligrams of lipase, you might go, well, I better pick the stronger one because it's a bigger dose, so therefore it's gonna be more active. But you don't actually know that it's not giving you that information based on weight.

But if you picked up a product and it said it contains 15,000 HUT, so that's a measure for proteases, and then another product had 45,000 HUT, well then in that case, you know that that second product is three times more potent than the first product. So it's gonna break down more protein in the same time period than that the other product. So that's really important for people to look for.

If we think about some practical applications for dogs, animals with a normal pancreas generally don't need a digestive enzyme supplement. And it's not something I've ever used for our dogs for digestive problems or just, you know, just for the sake of it. Mm-Hmm. and they did a study in 2017 where they actually supplemented healthy dogs with either plant-based or based enzymes. And then they had a control group that didn't get any enzymes.

And at the end of the study they found that there was no difference at all between the, the three groups in terms of the digestibility of their food. Meaning there was really no benefit to the supplementation. So healthy animals, healthy people, you know, you don't really need to supplement, it's just a waste of money. Right. - Which I think has been people's argument long term anyway, with supplements. That's - Right. For us and for my clients.

I don't recommend things just for the, - Just for the sake of - It. Yeah. Just, I mean, it's just doesn't make sense. Yeah. And we have to remember, when it comes to supplements more broadly, the body, particularly the liver, still has to metabolize those ingredients. So it's still putting a burden on the body. So if you don't need them, just don't take them. - So how do you know if you need them or you don't need them?

- Well, remember we went earlier on, we went through some of the physical symptoms that people might experience. Mm-Hmm. or the gut symptoms, things like that. Yep. So they're the obvious, let's try a digestive enzyme supplement sort of symptoms. But if we look at dogs, older dogs, particularly if they're underweight, would probably benefit from trying an enzyme. Mm-Hmm. because like people, the older dogs get, they, you know, produce less naturally.

Mm-Hmm. dogs with digestive orders, like with people, again, if your dogs got a lot of gas, a lot of rumbling noises from its gut frequent diarrhea or stools that contain a lot of mucus or undigested food. Now for dogs that have fed a raw bath style diet, you know, sometimes I do see carrot come out in our dog's poo. Mm-Hmm. . But to me that's not a red flag that, oh, you know, our dogs need to be on enzymes. I just know that that's plant matter that's sort of coming through in chunks.

Obviously dogs with the exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, they, you know, absolutely need it for life. Mm-Hmm. , some say that digestive enzymes can help reduce dogs eating their poo because they make it less attractive. And by increasing the dog's nutritional uptake from food that they won't seek out that poo to eat it in the first place. I don't know. So if any of our listeners have had experience where that's worked using enzymes,

post it on the Facebook page. Well, - People usually say, give your dog pineapple. Stop them wanting to eat their own poo. - Well see that's interesting because pineapple is - Brolin. Yeah. - Potent source of bromm. I say bromm, Moline bromm - Brolin - Dogs that are going through a dietary transition.

Mm-Hmm. , you know, they might, because if you are suddenly going from say, a highly processed heat treated high carb kibble to a high protein, high fat, raw food diet, their body may not be used to producing, you know, those high levels of proteases and lipases to deal with the raw food. Mm-Hmm. . So, you know, some support in the short term might be beneficial for those dogs. Dogs that are highly stressed, again, like humans that compromises digestion.

So while you're working on the behavioral aspects, you might also support their gut health as well. Mm-Hmm. dogs that are on antibiotics or any medications that interfere with sort of the gut microbiome might benefit and dogs with food allergies or intolerances. Like, that's a really interesting point. And I don't know if a lot of people are aware that food intolerances can develop in response to incomplete protein digestion.

Mm-Hmm. . So everything we've spoken about already today that could contribute to sort of the poor breakdown of food that can set dogs up and people for food intolerances. So these undigested proteins can cross into the bloodstream, the body sort of flags them as foreign substances, mounts and immune response. And then that ends up triggering an adverse food reaction.

So when we give digestive enzymes with food, it helps them to better break down the proteins into the smaller amino acid subunits, which then helps to minimize the risk of adverse food reactions occurring in the first place. But if we give digestive enzymes between meals, it can actually help with intolerances as well. Because once a protein gets into the bloodstream, it forms a complex, I'll just call it like an immune complex.

And digestive enzymes, when they're not dealing with food to break down, can then actually sort of attack these complexes and clear them from the bloodstream, which makes the allergy or the intolerance less for the drug. Right. So I find that fascinating. I probably haven't explained it very well, but sounds - Very complicated. - It's a thing that's my scientific, what I said, I haven't explained it well, but believe me, it's a thing.

Okay. Yeah. The other benefit of giving, and this is how I've used digestive enzymes for our dog. So our dog's guts, we've been really lucky. Like we've, we haven't really had any issues with any of our dogs that they've needed enzymes for dietary sort of reasons so far. So good. Touch wood. Yeah. Touch wood. But what I have used enzymes for, for ladybug when she came out of surgery for her spinal surgery, episode two, what happened to ladybug?

Mm-Hmm. , they're great anti-inflammatory agents, particularly Bromm Lane, which she's really well studied for. You know, all of these uses beyond digestion and it's been shown to be as effective in some instances as the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. Mm-Hmm. . So one of bromm lane's most common applications is in the treatment of inflammation and soft tissue injuries. It can speed up healing, you know, from bruises, hematomas, it's great for reducing swelling and pain and tenderness.

So that's really good if's taken before surgery. It can speed up recovery time and then when you take it again after surgery, that's sort of just doing that as well. Right. But it's just so, it's safe to take before and after it's been shown to be helpful for a lot of joint conditions like osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, any of those musculoskeletal injuries, cardiovascular diseases, autoimmune disorders for sinusitis.

A lot of research particularly for kids in that regard, which is why Fresh pineapple is so good. So during winter when you get all the sniffles and things like that, you know, fresh Pineapple is great for, I - I was gonna ask that question. I was gonna say, would it be just beneficial just to eat pineapple or should you take it as a supplement form? Like what is the best source? - I'm always gonna say food first. Yep. Fresh produce is really where we should be starting. Mm-Hmm.

And it's only if that's not effective, or the problem with fresh food is compliance for a lot of people. So if I said to you, you know, you need to eat pineapple every day, the first couple of days you might be like, oh yeah, this is awesome, I can do this. But then it sort of becomes a chore. You gotta chop up the pineapple. You know, maybe you don't feel like it. Maybe they're not in season anymore. Mm-Hmm. , you know, maybe you can't get to the shops to buy one.

So people tend to fall off the wagon when they have to rely on specific foods regularly. Yep. Whereas I, you know, if you had a, - And some people don't like the taste of pineapple, - That's it. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. So I always say, because some of my clients may not be taking this for whatever reason, there's lots of reasons, you know, may, may not be taking the supplement that I particularly want them to take. But then I'm like, well, if they're gonna actually take that one.

So for example, I prefer powders. Mm-Hmm. , why For better absorption, good . Um, I do know that. - I know, but people on the show might not. Yeah. - Well we mentioned it earlier with, with my grandma. Oh, - We did. Yeah. Yeah, we did.

- So I might say, well, you know, this powder's gonna be so much better for you, but if they're not gonna comply, like if the effort of sort of spooning that powder into a glass of water and drinking that a couple of times a day, if they're not gonna adhere to that, then there's no point giving them a powder, even if it's a better product. Yeah. If they're gonna throw a tablet back, you know, three times a day, no problem, then I'm gonna go, oh, you know, it's not the best option.

But the best thing is that you're taking something that makes sense. - It does make sense. Because look, people might be listening on the show thinking, well, why wouldn't they just do that? And from somebody who doesn't do all the right things, IE me Mm-Hmm. , um, who won't take certain powders and stuff like that, or conveniently forgets or just sometimes forgets to do it. It would be easy for me to point the finger to other people and say, well, why won't you do it?

Why won't you go into these measures to look after your own health? Well, you know, I'm not a great candidate for that. So I kind of understand how life and inconvenience gets in the way of you looking after your optimal health, which is just crazy really. We seem to wait until something diabolically goes wrong and then we want to do something about it rather than Mm-Hmm. You know, a lot of these preventative measures.

- Yeah. And that, look, I see it every day in clinic where people are suffering, but it's still not enough for them to motivate them to sort of adhere to the optimal protocol. But that's fine. You know, that's life and that's what flexibility is about in working with someone. Mm-Hmm. - Well, I mean, look, I know plenty of people in, in health and I know you'd never talked to me about client confidentiality anyway, but Mm-Hmm.

You know, like friends of mine who are fitness trainers and so forth, they've said that people will turn up there and then, um, they'll catch up with 'em in the street while they're smashing a coke. Mm-Hmm. You know, and they're saying, oh, I don't wanna do this. And I, you know, I've got stomach issues and I'm breaking out in acne and my skin's terrible and all this sort of stuff. And they'll say they, they'll see 'em walking down the road with a pie and a coke. They say, what's going on?

They go, oh yeah, look, you know, life inconvenience, blah, blah blah. But you know, like even though we talk about takeaways and so forth, there are other options, other healthier options. But, you know, sometimes shitty food taste good. - Yeah. And even like the last episode we did on fasting, like I know the enormous health benefits of fasting, but I don't do it. It's just, I find it hard.

I find it uncomfortable, I get hangry. Mm. So even though I know it would be awesome for me, that's just not something I'm drawn to, to do myself. But I highly encourage everyone else to, to give it a - Go. Well, Q did it, our friend Q who's a personal friend of Elle's and mine, I think he got onto day six of just Oh wow. Yeah, just day six. And he was pretty much just doing a water fast.

And I think he had a little bit of crushed seed at one day just because he was feeling a little, i I tess's blood. He does everything, he does all his ketones and everything. I was gonna - Say like that's quite extreme. So people, I don't recommend that the, you know, that most people go to that extreme, particularly if there's any underlying health issues. - Yeah. Well he didn't have any underlying health issues. He was testing his blood every day.

So he was really going through all the responsible measures that you would if you're going through such a long fast. But one thing that he did find was that his vision had improved dramatically. Mm-Hmm. So he said that not only did he see benefits in losing quite a significant amount of weight, 'cause he's done several of them now, but yeah, he said that his mental clarity has improved. His si his vision has improved. I think he said he's sleeping better if I recall properly.

But quite a significant amount of benefits anyway. I know this is a digestive thing and not a fasting thing, but you know, oh it's all fascinating. It's all, well, it's all interconnected somehow. It is because fasting is connected to the digestive system funnily enough. That's correct. Mm-Hmm. - So if we look at the safety of digestive enzymes now that we've sort of just touched on the safety of fasting.

Mm-Hmm. oral administration of digestive enzymes is generally like really safe and tolerated by most people. The only caution is advised or one of the main cautions advised is for those people taking blood thinners, um, because there's a risk of hemorrhage and that's mainly due to Bromm lane. So it interferes with platelet aggregation. So anyone out there on things like warfarin, just be mindful of bromm lane content of any enzymes.

Most problems if you're gonna see them, are more likely to occur with the animal-based ones rather than the microbial or the plant-based ones, with the exception of Bromm Lane, some people can be hypersensitive to pineapple again, Bromm Lane. Yep. So that's always a caution you'll see on in - What ways? Like how would it surface - Maybe hives or a rash. Okay. Um, tingling in the mouth, things like that. So don't really know beyond that. . - Well I got hives from eating too many oranges one day.

- Strawberries can do it. That's a common culprit. - Yeah. Like I think I ate like a bag of oranges over a course of a day. Yeah. And uh, I was just, these oranges were delicious and I got, uh, hives from it. Yeah. Mm. - There you go. If you gave your dog a digestive enzyme for the first time and then it actually triggered a worsening of symptoms like loose stools or vomiting or anything like that. Mm. You know, just stop it. Yeah. Same with people.

You know, if you start something always, like I always tell my clients really pay attention, particularly for the first week of just any symptoms, like anything new, anything different, just, you know, be body aware. Just stop it. Just stop it and then stop it and let me know. Yeah. So we can do something about it. Mm-Hmm. But look, I'm, I guess we've covered a lot today so we should probably wrap it up.

Mm-Hmm. . So at the end of the day, I do think there's a place for digestive enzymes for both people and pets. Yep. But as I've repeated over and over throughout this episode, we have to remember the good digestion is not just about sort of popping a pill to deal with the problem. You know, it requires like this synergistic action between our diet, our lifestyle. We need good stomach acid, we need a healthy gastrointestinal lining.

You know, all of these things that are fundamental to nutrient absorption. Mm-Hmm. . That's what we've gotta keep in mind. Rather than just hitting straight for the health shop and a supplement. So yeah. Before you run out and spend your money, eliminate foods that could be aggravating your system. Look at your stress levels and your lifestyle and see how you could sort of improve the psychological wellbeing of, you know, of your situation. Practice mindful eating. All of this.

I'd say, you know, who sits quietly at a dinner table these days and just eats and has conversation. We're all in front of the computers and we're in front like I eat in front of the tv. Like I'll admit that. So there's all this external stimulation and distraction, which again is part of, you know, one tiny part of the obesity epidemic. 'cause we're all just doing hand to mouth. Yeah. You know, we're not consciously thinking about what we're doing and chewing our food properly.

It's just really that mind numbing hand to mouth. - Yeah. In some cases it still happens. But going of the day of sitting at the table with the family and having a conversation and eating your food properly and so forth, it's more about rushing around and watching Netflix or doing something. I remember you and I when we still lived in Melbourne, we went to a Chinese restaurant one time and I was on the phone 'cause I was working in security then - And ah, I know, I remember. Yeah.

- . Yeah. And the owner of the restaurant who we were friends with, he came over and said, oh, you shouldn't talk on the phone when you're eating. It's very, very bad for digestion. Mm-Hmm. You know, I kind of thought, oh that was a weird thing to say. But as I've looked into it and you've been really getting involved in your bachelor course and you were coming back and telling me all these things about, you know, the importance of mindfulness and digestion and blah, blah, blah.

It was, yeah. It made, made sense. Yeah. I - Think we all have, you know, we're all evolving over time with our knowledge and Yep. What do you always say once you know better, - Do the best you can until you know better and when you know better do better. And that's Maya Angelou's quote. That's - It. I love that quote. - It's the best quote in the world because - There's no point in people beating themselves up for things that they didn't know.

Yep. I mean, I used to feed our dogs a brand, a kibble that now makes me cringe and die a little bit on the inside, but I don't beat myself up about it 'cause I didn't know better at the time. - That's right. It's all about convenience and prior knowledge. Yeah. And I think if you know better and you don't do better, then you're a fool. Yeah. - So just keep that in mind. Digestive enzyme supplements are really just a bandaid approach unless you fix the underlying cause.

I think we might leave it there today. - Just remind people that you've also got a seminar coming up in Canberra. - Yes. Everyone get to Canberra the 20th of February, 2021. Yep. I'll be doing a full day. So eight 30 till four 30 ish. Mm-Hmm. on Canine Nutrition. So we'll be covering like the fundamentals of nutrition, the impact of nutrition on behavior, how to interpret commercial pet food labels.

We're gonna look at raw food feeding and then touch a little bit on food allergies and the role of diet in that area of health. So it's gonna be great. Mm-Hmm. . And if you are getting in quick for your tickets, the first 30 people Yep. Get a free bottle of Anol Rapid, which is valued at around 61 60 $2. - Damn. That's very generous of Anol. - Yeah, it was pretty awesome. So I really appreciate them offering that support. Yeah, - Sure.

Yeah. And you've had other people around Australia inquiring about hosting you for seminars as well. - I have no details to release as yet. Mm-Hmm. . But hopefully 2021 I'll be back on the road doing stuff. - So if people want to approach you about hosting a seminar, how would they do that? - If you're interested in me coming and doing a seminar, the best way to contact me is via email. So Noelle at natural health and nutrition.com au. Mm-Hmm.

, if you've got any questions or any feedback you wanna provide about today's show Mm-Hmm. , jump onto the Facebook page, natural Health for People and Pets. Yep. And then if you wanna know more about me and I'm having consultations for you or your dog Mm-Hmm. , jump onto my website, natural health and nutrition.com au. Terrific. Well thank you everyone. I hope you got something out of the digestive enzyme episode and that you'll think about what you're doing with your diets.

- Hmm. And Titanic Poos - Titanic. Poos . We need a, the cue music today needs to be the Titanic. - We need Celine Dion singing us out. Well, - I'll leave that up to you, - . Well, we'll get copyright blasted too. - Okay. Thanks everyone. Bye. Bye.