- Welcome to The Natural Health for People in Pets podcast, a show that aims to empower you with the knowledge and tools needed to take control of your own health and wellbeing, as well as providing health promoting strategies for the dogs in your life. The world of health and nutrition can be overwhelming, so what better way to understand what works and what doesn't, what's evidence-based and what's not, then to hear it from someone in the know.
So, please welcome your host of the show, accredited Naturopath and nutritionist Narelle Cook. - Welcome back to episode four of Natural Health for People in Pits. My name is Glenn Cook, I'm co-host of the show. However, I'm going to introduce you to the person in the know the host of the show. Noelle Cook, that rhymed. - Hello everyone. , you're a poet and you didn't know it. - That rhymed too. Yeah. - Well, welcome back everyone.
It's good to be back for another episode. Mm. Today's episode is based on something that triggered me on social media a little while ago and - What you got triggered on social media. I, how did that - Happen? I know Who'd - Have thought? Who'd have thought that social media could trigger people around the world? Yeah. - This was on a fresh food feeding forum and - A what? A fresh food feeding forum. . - I know it's a bit of a mouthful. - Say it three times. Really fast,
- Fresh food feeding forum. Um, - I, I can't believe you did that. - And people don't realize where we are. It's late on a Sunday night. Mm. So bit - Weary. And you just did another podcast I did with Penos and Luke. Yep. - That was good. Talking about dog nutrition. Yep. And lots of other bits and pieces. So - You've had a few meaty things going out recently. You appeared on Pooches at play with Lara. - Yeah, that was interesting. Did a short film clip with her about dog nutrition. Yep.
And specifically leaky gut in dogs. Yep. And I also did a blog post for Big Dog. Yep. The Raw Pet Food Company. So that's really great to be able to get the message out there. Yeah. - It's really good. And like you said, it is good to get the message out there and help inform people about better options for their dog. Yeah. - So what came up recently for me, and it's not that I haven't seen it before Mm-Hmm.
But I just saw it on this particular thread, and this unsuspecting dog owner happened to put out there that her dog had diarrhea. Right. And that she was giving chicken and rice. Okay. It comes up all the time. It does. And most of the forums that I'm part of, when that does come up, the poor pet owner gets absolutely persecuted. Like they get ripped to shreds for even hinting that they might give their dog chicken and rice for diarrhea.
- I've gotta say, after many, many years of being on forums where I've started, I literally started when the internet started on forums. You know, like I was dialing into billboard forums in the States, and it's never changed. You know, like it's just gone from generation to generation of these savage people, you know? Like it's got worse because it's attracted more people to it. But it's still in the same vein of meanness where people are just tearing people apart.
And I get it, where you have somebody coming in who's asking the same question, you know, for the umpteenth time that people get sick of it. And they also feel that, you know, oh, you should know, but the reality is they do not know. Yeah. They absolutely don't know. And they've been advised that like that was industry standard. If you have diarrhea, chicken and rice, that's what was given out. I remember vets telling me that. Yeah.
- We grew up with that. We used to do that for our own dogs back in the day. That's right. It's the go-to, - But it was the same for people when you're sick. Chicken soup. - Yeah. The bratt diet, which is banana rice, apple sauce and toast. Mm-Hmm. for diarrhea. So yeah, same, same. But I just, you know, I feel really bad because people are so persecutory. Mm. Is that the - Word ? I don't know. We'll go with it. Sounds good. - People persecute other people. Yeah. On social media.
And nothing's ever black or white. And that's what irks me the most because they're so rigid in their thinking. Like as soon as they see the word rice, they're just like, that's it. That person is like an evil, horrible dog owner. Yeah. That's doing harm to their dog. And it's not the case. It's not so black and white.
Some of the things that I've seen, like I did a quick Google thinking about, you know, talking about it today and some of the comments that come up when you type in chicken and rice for diarrhea for dogs is that chicken and rice is one of the worst things that you can feed a sick dog. Now that's a pretty bold, big statement. And I can think of a lot of things that are worse than chicken and rice for a sick dog.
And a lot of the commercial kibble brands sort of come in there, like the poorer quality kibble brands. There's some good premium brands that yeah, I think are fine, but it's not one of the worst things you can feed a sick dog. Other comments are that they're hurting their dog by feeding chicken and rice. They're - Hurting, - They're actually hurting their dogs by feeding it. And - What's the evidence behind that? What's the scientific basis of it?
- I will get into the nitty gritty of the science of - Them herding their dog. - No, I've just rice for - Diarrhea. Yeah. But that's what I'm saying is like, if they're saying that you're hurting your dog, ah yeah. How, what are they basing that off? Like where's the basis, where's the evidence? - That's right. But I guess when I see comments like that, I am, I automatically go to, well, let's put that in perspective.
Mm-Hmm. So like I do think grains and rice are for the most part, inflammatory foods and should be minimized. Mm-Hmm. . But to say that giving, you know, home cooked rice and chicken for a dog that's got sort of acute onset diarrhea for a few days is hurting their dog. I mean, when we go on holidays for a couple of weeks, most of my naturopathic principles go out the window and I know I'm gonna eat foods and drink things that are actually damaging my body and harmful to my body.
I know that's not in my best interest for that week or two that we're away, but it's a short period of time. Yep. And you know, the body's amazing. You get back on track and you know, you recover and everything's great and you know, post-holiday sugar cravings that you're dealing with, things like that, . But it's the same with dogs with diarrhea. Hopefully if someone's got a dog with severe chronic diarrhea that they've seen their vet and they've ruled out anything sinister.
But if your dog just gets diarrhea one day and you think it's pretty, you know, maybe it's something they ate in the garden and you know, it's gonna resolve pretty quickly giving chicken and rice for a few days. Mm-hmm. While it may not be the best option, I mean, there are other things that we'll talk about today that you can do instead, but it's not gonna hurt your dog and it's not the worst thing that you can give them for that short period of time.
- Yep. I just need a quick interlude here for a minute, just through experience. Yep. And this is for forum people.
And I've had experience from this before, like anybody who's heard me talk on the canine paradigm or anything like that, like the things that I'm saying about what other people are doing, I would never be bold enough to say that I haven't done this myself or been, you know, mean to somebody on a forum before because I have, and it's been pointed out to me and I've thought about it and I've reflected on it.
So, you know, like if anyone's doing this on forums now they actually get the message and make good on it. Because some people who are asking genuine questions and really need genuine feedback, when they get beat ups on the forums, they never ask again. Mm-Hmm. Or they just, they delete themselves off the forum. That's the worst thing that could happen is because they won't go looking for knowledge or further education anymore.
They give up on it because they feel, as you said before, they feel such a high level of persecution and that's it for them. Mm. You know, there is no more asking people for advice or reaching out and trying to get educated. They just think, well, that was a terrible experience. So I guess in a nutshell, what I'm suggesting, if people are coming on forums and they want to be better educated, then be a little patient with them.
Even if it just grinds your gears and you just think I've just answered that like, honestly just three weeks ago, that same question came up about three times and it's been answered. You could even say to them helpfully, which I do see people do in nice forums where they say, Hey mate, if you do a search on the forum, you'll find that that was just answered last week and there was some really good back and forth on it.
So you might find that really engaging and really helpful, especially for what you're asking. Anyway. Sorry to interrupt. I thought that was beneficial for people who are forum trials. - Yeah, no, that's fine. And I, I'm seeing that more and more where people are telling others, just look, do a search. Yeah. You know, it's being answered. Do a search. And that's, people accept that. - They can also say, do a search.
And if you're having no luck of it doesn't help you specifically, then message back and, you know. Yeah. We'll, uh, get the brains trust to see if they can answer the question for you. - Yeah. So some of the other sort of comments that come up about rice is that, you know, dogs don't have any nutritional requirement for carbohydrates. And again, that's true. Dogs technically don't have any nutritional requirement for carbohydrates. But we're talking about sort of an acute use Yep.
For a therapeutic purpose. Again, I'm not saying rice is the way to go. We'll talk about better options. Mm-Hmm. . But carbohydrates are important for dogs at certain times in their life where energy requirements are high Yep. During growth, during gestation, during lactation. And if dogs don't have adequate carbohydrate for energy, then they're gonna make the glucose they need from amino acids, so they're gonna break down their protein.
Yep. Which is better used supporting muscle growth and supporting the immune system. So we don't wanna compromise that Mm. During those periods. But that's, that's an aside. Another comment that I saw with my quick Google was that rice is too starchy to be part of a dog's diet. Again, true for the most part. But there's a reason, and this is why I wanna get into today, there's a reason why dogs need starch when they've got diarrhea.
Okay. It's got a purpose. Okay. So I guess to begin, it's helpful to have a bit of a backstory about where, you know, the rice for diarrhea even came from in the first place. Most people may not realize that diarrhea is the greatest cause of malnutrition and mortality. Mm-Hmm. in infants and children in developing countries.
Yep. So even though they could die of the actual disease that's causing the infection, that's causing the diarrhea, for the most part, they actually die from dehydration and the loss of electrolytes. Mm-Hmm. . So, you know, you've gotta think in these countries, getting to medical aid isn't always possible. Mm-Hmm. or if it is, you know, it's not gonna happen immediately. So a lot of these children die.
So, you know, they've developed standard oral rehydration solutions, but again, not accessible to everyone. So what scientists have been doing over the decades is trying to find an alternative that's readily accessible, that's effective for helping you know, these children with diarrhea. Yep. And they ended up testing all these different carbohydrates, uh, sources like they tested rice, wheat, lentils, mung beans, all those sort of crops that are readily available in developing countries.
And they found that most of them actually worked. But rice just had more of the properties for, you know, reducing stool output and rehydration that they were looking for. So the World Health Organization now, from that, they developed a rice-based oral rehydration solution. And the World Health Organization now recommends the use of a rice water fast as the initial intervention for children with diarrhea. Who, who , the World Health Organization.
That's who, yep. So that's sort of the background. So it really did come from a good place and it's been shown to be effective Mm-Hmm. , um, in saving children's lives. Yep. So that's important. But you know, we need to know, I guess as a nutritionist, it's important for people not to get hung up on individual foods and think like it has to be this particular food, but to know what you can use instead.
Like for example, raw food feeders tend to be fixated on, you know, you have to feed 5% liver in a raw food diet to, you know, make it complete and balanced. Why? Well, because of the nutrient profile that it provides, particularly vitamin A, but you know, a lot of other things too. But you don't need liver specifically, even though every sort of ratio will say, you know, 5% liver, 5% other secreting organs. Mm-Hmm. , you need the nutrients that the liver provides.
So if you are savvy with your nutritional knowledge, you know, you can say, okay, liver's got this nutritional profile, what else could I substitute that has that similar nutritional profile? And it's the same with rice when it comes to diarrhea. Yep. So rice is great, but once you understand how it works, you can go, okay, so that's how it works to fix diarrhea. What can I substitute that will also do that? Mm-Hmm.
. So I wanna get into a bit of the nerdy stuff and, and just explain how, like what happens during diarrhea and how rice works to fix it. Okay. And then we can move on to what you can use instead. Yeah. Cool. So in the normal healthy intestine, so we've got this continuous exchange of water being secreted into the intestines. Mm-Hmm. and, you know, a similar amount most days being reabsorbed back into the body.
But you know, when we're in a state of diarrhea, our dogs are in a state of diarrhea. So that balance gets upset because there's a lot of inflammation. And so the ability of the large intestine to reabsorb water is compromised. So, you know, we are getting a lot more water secreted into the intestines, less taken up. So we're getting that net loss of fluids, which is why people die of dehydration and electrolytes. So, you know, sodium's the main electrolyte that gets lost in diarrhea.
And if it goes on for an extended period of time, then potassium really becomes a problem as well. But many people think too, particularly when it comes to human diarrhea, that if you just add some salt to your water, that's gonna be fine. 'cause that's gonna help your body take up the extra fluid so you don't get dehydrated. Mm-Hmm. . But it doesn't really help because the normal mechanism by which sodium gets absorbed by a healthy intestine is impaired when you've got diarrhea.
So it's not so straightforward in that sense. What about - Those electrolyte drinks? - Yeah. So - Hydrolite and so forth. - Yes, they work. Yep. But they're a blend of sodium and potassium magnesium. So all of your electrolyte minerals Mm-Hmm. plus they've got some glucose. Right. So you've just jumped ahead, segued into my next point, . So if we can't absorb sodium back up into the body, then we can't absorb excess water back up into the body. And this is an important relationship.
It's good that people understand it and know it, but you know, you don't have to dwell on it. But there's a relationship, it's an osmotic gradient that gets established between sodium and water. So all people need to remember is that wherever sodium goes Mm-Hmm. water will follow. So if you are getting excess sodium in the intestines Mm-Hmm. , then you'll get excess water coming outta the body into the intestines, which is gonna exacerbate diarrhea.
Right. But if your intestines can take up sodium, then automatically water's gonna get taken up. Mm-Hmm. . Okay. So bear with me people. Okay. But I've just said, you know, when you've got diarrhea and the intestinal lining is inflamed, that normal sodium uptake is impaired, but the body in all its, you know, beauty and glory has a workaround. Right. So if people can think of, you know, we've got all these different little transporters in our intestinal lining Mm-Hmm.
, and they all have different jobs. And if we think of this particular one, like a revolving door, so it's designed specifically to transport both glucose and sodium. So they're a package deal. So if sodium went up to this door and said, Hey, I wanna get in, it'd be like, sorry bud, you're on your own. No deal. Mm-Hmm. . But if sodium goes and grabs glucose and goes up to the door, then it's like, great. It lets 'em in. It revolves, they get up into the body, right.
And then water gets absorbed up, like water just gets a free ride. - So it's kind of like when you go to a nightclub and you've got too many guys and they go, sorry, we've got too many guys inside. That's - Actually, yeah. Yeah. That's a really good analogy. You know, so if you go grab a girl like any random girl Yeah. You can, you've got a better chance of getting in. That's, - That's why I'm here to dumb things down . - No, that's - , - That's awesome.
I really love that. But, and people might be like, oh, whatever. But The Lancet, which is one of the oldest and most prestigious, um, medical journals, what's - It called? - The Lancet. Mm-Hmm. . They actually made a statement saying that the discovery of this mechanism, so this cotransport of sodium and glucose was potentially the most important medical advancement over the past century. Wow. Yeah. So it obviously does a lot more than I know.
Right. I just know how it works with diarrhea, but, - So you better deep dive into that. - Yeah. So it must be pretty fascinating. Mm-Hmm. So that's what oral rehydration therapy is based on. So those electrolyte drinks Mm-Hmm. They've got the sodium, but they also put the sugars in there to, to create - The binder. Yeah. To help - The sodium get into the body, which helps the water get into the body. Well, - There you go. That's fascinating. I didn't know that.
- Yeah. So back to rice. So rice is a carbohydrate. Mm-Hmm. , uh, it's a starchy carbohydrate. Yep. Which gets broken down in the body into sugar, glucose, sugar. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why rice works in this instance. Mm-Hmm. because it's providing the glucose to help with the reabsorption of sodium and water. Yeah. Back into the body. There are other compounds that can do this too. Amino acids like glycine, for example. And people forget that grains also contain protein.
So rice is about, depending on what book you look at, about 10% protein and some of that protein will be glycine. Yep. So that's gonna be sort of helping too. But chicken, you know, as an animal, protein is rich in amino acids, including glycine. So glycine can help with the absorption of sodium in a similar mechanism, not the same, but, um, as the glucose, now everyone's educated on the mechanism behind why rice is so useful for helping to reduce the incidents and frequency of diarrhea.
So having that information and knowledge, you can then go, okay, well what else is going to potentially provide a source of carbohydrate and starch that can be broken down into glucose and taken up into the body as - An alternative to rice. - Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . And again, I've got no problem if, like, if one of our dogs suddenly got diarrhea and, you know, there was panic buying because of covid and we didn't have anything else in the house except for rice.
Mm-Hmm. , like, I wouldn't hesitate to make up some rice water. Yep. Um, and it's actually the water that's being used and beneficial rather than the grain itself. You can give both. But, um, and oh, there's a little recipe that I can tell people at the end Mm-Hmm. if they wanna use the rice water approach. Yep. But one of the reasons that I don't think rice is the best option is because grains do have an inflammatory effect in the body.
So when the gastrointestinal tract is already sort of compromised and inflamed, it just seems counterintuitive to throw more fuel on the fire. Mm-Hmm. , so to speak, in that regard. And it's the same with factory farm chicken, you know, that can be very pro-inflammatory because of the high omega sixes and anything else that's in the meat, you know, from the farming practices. Yep. But what a lot of people may not realize is that rice is notoriously high in arsenic.
- Wow. How did that come to be? Well, lucky I asked. - So rice, and this has been known in human health circles for a long time. Like rice has always been a problem for human health in terms of its carcinogenic effect.
Mm-Hmm. on the body. But there was a paper released last year, 2019, on dogs and showing that hair tissue mineral analysis, uh, looking for arsenic in dogs, um, was much higher, like significantly, statistically significantly higher in dogs that had more rice in their diet than dogs that didn't. But to arsenic, it's sort of one of those ubiquitous compounds. So it's naturally found, you know, in the air, in the soil, in the groundwater. And - Isn't it in apricot kernels?
- Yes, I think it is. - Yeah. - Yeah. And apple seeds too, I - Think. Yes. I think in apple seeds in very small quantity. But I'm sure that there is a recommendation to be cautious with apricot kernels. I'm sure I've heard that before. Yeah. - I know there was a phase years ago now for, and it's probably still out there. I've just, it's - Faded. It was probably like a thing on Facebook that said, wives treat your husbands to some apricot kernels or something. .
- No, there was a compound la trill or something. I, that could be wrong, but I'm sure it was potent anti-cancer. Yes. Benefits from apricot kernels. - Yes. Yes. I have heard that. That's where I think I heard it from. Yeah. Hmm. Anyway. - Yeah. So this is important. So I'm just gonna spend a bit of time on this arsenic picture because I don't think people realize how significant a problem it is for their own health, for the health of their children, let alone the health of their dogs.
So arsenic comes in two form. So you've got organic arsenic and inorganic arsenic, and the terms organic and inorganic when we're talking about heavy metals and minerals is completely different to the farming practices of, you know, chemicals or no chemicals. Mm-Hmm. . So it's not that organic. Yep. Meaning, yep. It's to do with whether it's attached to a carbon molecule.
Right. So organic arsenic is relatively slave, but it's the inorganic arsenic, which is a carcinogen, and it's described as what's called a non threshold carcinogen. So any exposure constitutes a health risk. And the eu, so the European Union have actually classified it as a category one carcinogen. So it's, it's pretty nasty. And rice, because of the way it's grown naturally takes up a lot more arsenic from the soil and the groundwater.
Mm-Hmm. again because of the farming practices then similar crops. Yep. So depending on where the rice is grown, you know, bas Maori rice, for example, tends to have lower levels of arsenic, particularly if it's from India and Pakistan and California. Mm-Hmm. . But research is found, and this is what's scary, that's 75% of rice-based products that were tested for arsenic had levels that exceeded the European urine guidelines for safe consumption for babies and toddlers.
So the EU European Union, they're super conservative, they set their limit at 0.1 milligrams per kilogram, whereas in Australia, and that's just for inorganic arsenic. Mm-Hmm. Australia just has this like broad combination of organic and inorganic, which can be up to one. You know, in Australia they, they're happy, the government's happy for us to eat 10 times more arsenic - Really - Than the eu. And - Usually it's the other way round. Australia are so nanny with a lot of those sort of things.
That's surprising to say that. - Yeah, it is. And when you know that any arsenic is a health risk Mm-Hmm. And, you know, they've set a limit that they consider safe, but you know, any exposure Yep. Is detrimental. Mm-Hmm. So 75% of baby formulas and like toddler foods that are rice based exceed the safe limit. Okay. Um, that's scary. And you gotta think like if a child's main source of carbs is rice and 'cause rice, you know, kids love rice.
Mm-Hmm. And a lot of the baby formulas are like mushed up rice Yep. And rice cakes. And there's like little teething things for babies that are rice based. And if you think about it, children in general eat a lot of rice and that's problematic already. But children with celiac disease have been shown because they're eating rice instead of gluten containing grains. So they're getting, the studies show like up to 14 times more arsenic than other children.
Like on average. Has - This always been around, like things like celiac or is it just that we're more aware of it? Look, - We're definitely more aware of it with better testing Yep. Procedures, but it's not that it, you know, hasn't been around - What would've been classified way back then. Just stomach problems and, - Well, not even, so it's not a guarantee that you'll have digestive complaints or problems if you are celiac.
So people can go through their whole lives and not have any gastric symptoms. Yep. But still be celiac. But you know, it may manifest in other ways, you know, down the track if there's nutrient deficiencies that are causing sort of secondary Mm-Hmm. health problems. So, so it's not a guarantee. Most people do have gastric distress, but you know, our diets too, this is sort of getting off topic, but our diets now are so much more aggravating to our digestive systems.
I think that's, our diets are more triggering of autoimmune conditions in general. So I think that all sort of comes into it. Yeah. - Yeah. That makes sense there. Anyway, let's get back to your topic. Sorry to hijack. - No, that's all right. And I'm really like, I didn't like it when I learned that brown rice has up to 80% more arsenic than white rice.
Wow. So all of our, you know, health conscious people who are going for brown rice for the extra fiber and nutrients, they're actually getting more more arsenic. Arsenic in the mix as well. And that's because the arsenic tends to concentrate in the brand. Yep. You know, that gets removed, uh, when they make white rice. Mm-Hmm. And it's, you know, it's not just about arsenic.
Rice can have like lead and mercury, cadmium and things like that, but uh, I can't give you the stats on it, but I read a paper where they suspect that part of the decline in IQ in children Mm-Hmm. could be due to exposure to rice. Wow. Like the arsenic levels, you know, lots of arsenic levels in rice. - It's interesting to hear you say that because I was going to intervene and ask, is there a go-to rice?
Like a better form of rice to have, you know, like that was shocking for me to hear you say that brown rice is so compromised. Yeah. So compromised. Is there a go-to rice? Is basmati the one that you would recommend? - Yeah, well that's what I mentioned just earlier, like baati rice is the preferred rice for arsenic levels being lower. Yep. But that even in the category of Baati rice, the studies show that it depends on where it's grown.
So Yep. The safest rice, according to the research is vasts Maori rice that's grown in India, Pakistan, or California, - Not even in Australia. - No, we don't rate, and it doesn't matter if the rice is grown organically or not, that has no bearing on arsenic levels because it's the way rice has to be grown like in that water. And so it's just naturally occurring arsenic in the soil and the, the groundwater. Geez. And - Who would think that there's such a rising problem from such a little thing?
- Yeah. And it's a known carcinogen, so Mm-Hmm. If they're saying, and sorry, just back to your, um, what's good, what's not in terms of rice choices. Yep. The highest levels in the US is rice that's grown in Texas. Mm-Hmm. , Arkansas and Louisiana. Right. So for all our US listeners Yep. Get your rice from California. Yep. Not Texas. Mm-Hmm. I mean that's not even gonna be on the packet. It's just gonna say product of the USA, right?
- That's right. - Yeah. So that's really tricky and hard for people. - How would they find out? I - Don't know. I guess they could, I mean, if you're lucky, the company may No, but often a lot of manufacturing companies, you know, they source their product from a wide variety of farms. Yeah. So it may not be just like an exclusive farm in California. Might be some Californian rice, some Texan rice, I don't know.
But if you think about it, so the guidelines say that young children shouldn't be eating rice at every meal. Yep. And let's think about what we feed our dogs that are on kibble. - Yeah. They're rice and grain-based. Yeah. - And I cringe because you know, our French bulldogs back in the day before I knew better, were on - A hundred percent kibble diets. Well, - I was about to say the brand, I won't - Don't say the brand, - But it was a brand where rice is the number one ingredient.
Mm-Hmm. . Like this is a dog food, but the number one ingredient was rice. Yeah. And our dogs were getting that twice a day, every day for their entire lives. Mm-Hmm. . So you think of a toddler or a child if it's unsafe, you know, if the levels in rice are unsafe for them to eat regularly. Yep. And our poor dogs, like, no one's been considering what that's doing to their health and body and their similar body weight and size.
Mm-Hmm. . So I just, I really wanted to put that out there because, oh, you know what I read too. Rice milk can be really high in nasty milk. No, I know. Glen loves his - Rice milk. Ah, man. Let's, well I don't want to grow breasts so I don't drink soy. - No. I might have to try you on oat milk. - Yeah. And I don't like almond milk. - No, me either. Yeah. - I'll try oat milk. - Yeah. So, okay, let's get . I'll get back to the topic now. Yeah. Um, of diarrhea. Yeah.
So we know that the main thing we are looking for when dogs have diarrhea is a source of glucose. Mm-Hmm. . That's the key. Yeah. So, you know, there's lots of awesome alternatives. My go-to is to mix. So instead of chicken Mm-Hmm. I go for Turkey. Yep. The leanest Turkey you can find, because you've gotta think again when the intestinal tract is inflamed and upset, fat is one of the hardest nutrients to absorb.
Mm-Hmm. So you'll get a lot of malabsorption of fats and that'll just make the diarrhea worse and fattier and disgusting. - And turkey's got tryptophan in it. Yeah. Mm. - It does. So when I cook the Turkey, I, so I buy the leanest Turkey mints I can find, cook it, drain off the excess fat after cooking. And then I mix that like 50 50 with cooked mashed pumpkin. Yep. So pumpkin's my rice alternative. Mm-Hmm. . And I think that Turkey pumpkin combo is actually growing in use.
Mm-Hmm. , particularly in the raw feeding circles. - Don't you recommend slippery elm as well? - That's my next point. You just, oh, okay. You're well ahead of the game here. - I've just, I've heard you say it to people before, that's why, because I've, I actually listen to things that you say. Thank you. I don't know all about it or why you do it, but I've heard you suggest that to people. - Yes. I do mix slippery elm into it, but I'll finish with the pumpkin.
Okay. There. So pumpkin's good because it's a great source of soluble fiber. Mm-Hmm. . So it's actually higher in soluble fiber than rice. So that's good. Yeah. But what that means is that it can absorb excess water from the intestines. Mm-Hmm. because it forms this viscous gel, which makes the stool sort of swell up and become firmer. So that helps to sort of lessen the, the ranny poos. Yep. Soluble fiber also slows down the gastric transit time.
So you've gotta think the longer that a stool is in the intestines or in the colon, the more opportunity there is for the body to reabsorb water out of it. Yep. And then it becomes firmer. Okay. That's the great thing about soluble fiber. Soluble fiber is also very soothing to the intestinal lining. Pumpkin's a great source of potassium, so to replenish that electrolyte.
Mm-Hmm. , it's really good. And I dunno a lot about this next fact, but pumpkin has been shown to be better for diabetic dogs or patients, I should say. I think it's human studies instead of rice because it contains a particular extract that improves blood glucose levels. So, you know, a lot of diabetic patients have to be super careful with grains particularly Yeah. Um, that are rapidly absorbed. But there's something in pumpkin that can be safe and effective for diabetic patients.
So I imagine that translates to dogs as - Well. And not sweet potato pumpkin particularly. - I like pumpkin. You can use sweet potato. So that's the thing. If you understand that it's, you know, you need a starchy carbohydrate Mm-Hmm. that gets broken down into glucose in the body, sweet potato would be fine.
Okay. It's gonna have a slightly different profile obviously to pumpkin, but it's, you know, it's still an a suitable go-to, but then what I mix into the Turkey and pumpkin is slippery elm. Slippery elm. So slippery elm, it's also a soluble fiber, but it's what's called um, a mage. So it's very mucilaginous. Mm-Hmm. . And again it chops what's slippery, slippery . Well it's funny because that's what it does. It forms a viscous gel and it makes the poo slimier. Yep.
So for people who are constipated, it can be helpful to make, you know, the stool pass through the colon and come out the other end. Yep. But it's also very healing, very soothing. It's very nutritive. So again, when a dog's digestive capacity is compromised, you know, their nutrient absorption is compromised. So that can sort of help with that. You need to make sure that whenever you're giving sources of fiber to your dog, you need to make sure they're getting, you know, adequate fluid intake.
Mm. Because all these fibers are like sucking up moisture, which is why we want them in diarrhea. Yep. But we still need to make sure our dogs are getting adequate water so they don't get dehydrated throughout their illness. As a general guide, if you've never used slippery elm before, start with about a quarter of a teaspoon for a five to 10 kilo dog. Mm-Hmm. . And then, you know, you can build it up to a teaspoon or a bit more if you've got larger dogs.
But again, with fiber, whenever you're introducing fiber, you wanna start small and low and go slow because it does affect the microbiome and it can cause gas and bloating, which can exacerbate diarrhea, which is the opposite of what we want. Right. So small amount, see how your dog responds, but it's great. Slippery arm is awesome. Okay. A similar herb is marshmallow root comes in capsules, comes in powders. So that works in a similar way to slippery elm. Mm-Hmm.
. So you can look into that. Digestive enzymes, you know, there's so much microtrauma to the intestines during inflammation and infection in diarrhea that digestive enzymes can just help our dogs get a little bit more out of what they are eating. Mm-Hmm. and just help them recover a bit better oats, you know, if people don't have rice or potato or pumpkin. Yep. You know, you can use oats, another great source of soluble fiber.
So you can see there's lots of options. So you can - Make it like a porridge. - Yeah. If you understand the mechanism behind why you're doing something. Yep. And just sort of to round out, you know, some other things that you could do holistically for dogs with diarrhea, bone broths are, are beautiful because, you know, easy for the dog to take in and absorb in liquid form. Great for electrolytes. Mm-Hmm. and other compounds that can be very healing to the intestinal wall. Very - Hydrating.
- Yeah. Great for dogs and usually very aromatic. So if you feed it or give it to them slightly warmed. Yep. If they're feeling off or nauseous because of whatever's triggering their diarrhea, it can really help them take up extra fluid that, you know, they may not wanna just drink plain water from their bowl. It's - Like a little magic soup. - It's a magic soup. - ladybug likes it. - Oh Ladybug loves her bone broth. You know, I make a big batch and freeze it in ice cube trace.
Yep. And so I'll just pop a few out and add some extra water and yeah. That really help For days for people who haven't listened to episode two on what happened to Ladybug she needs, I need to ensure that she's getting adequate fluid intake during the day to prevent UTIs. Mm-Hmm. for her. So if I don't think she's drinking enough, I'll put some bone broth cubes in her water - And she will scoff - It and then she becomes like a leaky tap.
- Yep. And then we have to back her off it because she'll try and gulp the whole lot down in one sitting. - Yeah. So herbal teas, people don't think about herbal teas for therapeutic benefits for themselves or dogs, but I'm huge on herbal teas for my clients. Dogs and people. Mm-Hmm. . So you know, again when you've got gastric upset, Kamal is beautiful. Uh, and you just make it up as you would for yourself. Let it cool. Don't give you dog hot schooling tea, but Chami MA's great.
Nettles great. Ginger's great. Fennels great. You know, a lot of, there are teabag companies out there that do like blends. - So when you're saying that, like is there a specific brand that you would recommend for people? Because you talked about rice before and you said depends where it's grown. Would it be the same as tea? - Yes. I tend to just stick to a couple of brands of tea. So my knowledge of all the other tea brands that would be probably just as good isn't super duper mm-Hmm.
. But the ones that I love is Planet Organic. Yep. So they're organically grown tea and Hilda Hems is another high quality tea and they do single herbs as well as blends. Mm-Hmm. . So I dunno if they're available overseas, but they're definitely easy to get in Australia. Yep. So don't forget about herbal teas in a nutshell. If, you know, if a dog presents with diarrhea or if your dog has diarrhea, the first thing, if you've got a healthy adult dog Mm-Hmm.
, the best thing that you can do is to withhold all food for about 24 hours. Mm-Hmm. . So that just gives their gut a chance to calm down, you know, without any food aggravating the picture. So critical that they still get adequate fluids. So this is where the bone broth Yep. You know, would be lovely. Mm-Hmm. but fast your dog don't do it for puppies, don't do it for really old dogs or sick dogs. That's not really indicated.
And then, you know, after 24 hours you start to introduce easy to digest food. So that's pumpkin and our Turkey and you know, low fat foods, things like that. Yep. And all the supplements that you wanna add, I mean you might even add in a probiotic to again, help with the immune system, you know, whatever's triggered it to help with your immune system. Mm-Hmm. or just to help heal the lining of the gut.
Yep. So you might do that for a couple of days and then, you know, if things start to clear up if they don't go to Yvette, obviously, but if things start to clear up then you know, don't just put them straight back onto their original diet, just, you know, every day you might add in another like 25% of what their normal diet is. Yep. To say the Turkey and the pumpkin and the slippery arm.
- So you glossed over that just quickly before and I just think that it probably warrants caution for people that if they are concerned then speak to their vet as well. - Absolutely. Yeah. Like usually by day two. Yep. People should have a good sense of the quality of the diarrhea and the severity of it. Yep. So if by, you know, the end of day two I had that feeling, I would be to the vet that day or the next day, particularly if - It's got a really ranted smell or anything like that.
- Absolutely. If there's any blood from day one, you know, I'd be going to the vet - Yeah. And take a sample if you can, - If you can . Yeah. Okay. And I just meant to mention too, when you are start introducing food to the dog Mm-Hmm. Give smaller meals more frequently. So, you know, giving one massive meal is such a burden to the digestive tract that it's not gonna help. It's just gonna hinder, you know, any function of the enzymes and you know, absorption of nutrients.
So just, you might give three or four smaller meals throughout the day to a dog that's not well and then ease off over the days as the dog improves. Sounds - Good. I mean, - I've bagged rice a bit, but like I said, everything's gotta be put into perspective. I wouldn't be so concerned if I gave my dog rice and chicken for three days. Mm-Hmm. Because I know they're on a healthy diet now. They'd be on a healthy diet afterwards. Right.
But like I've, you know, we've gone through today, there are better options now. We've sort of evolved I think beyond, you know what, we've all grown up with chicken and rice from our vets. Yeah. So something to think about that was what today's podcast was about. You know, people shouldn't be persecuted if they do use chicken and rice. Mm-Hmm. . It's not the worst thing that you can give your dog. Yep. It's not the best thing, but it's certainly far from the worst.
Yep. And you know, just that people keep that in mind and just educate others - And just say, listen pumpkin, just use some pumpkin Aw . - So I think we'll leave it there for today. So that's my, um, chicken and rice for diarrhea. - Yep. Okay. Anyone you wanna thank, any love you wanna send out there or anything, - I'm always highly appreciative of my listeners and the people that support the show and my business.
Mm-Hmm. . So if people wanna get in contact with me, my primary business is natural health and nutrition. Yep. And so you can go to my website. Mm-Hmm. , there's heaps of information at natural health and nutrition.com au. Yep. I've got a Facebook page, natural Health and Nutrition, but I've also got a page Natural Health for People and Pets, which supports this podcast. Yep. So if you've got any questions about what we've spoken about today Mm-Hmm.
and what else you might be able to use for your dog, if it's got diarrhea, jump on the Natural Health for people and pets Facebook page and we can take it from there. Great. Thanks everyone.