Nigga Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome home, everybody. This is of course your family here over at Native Lampod. This is this week's mini pod, which I want to go ahead and kick over to my good co host and Fran Tiffany to I think pick up from some of the themes that we began at invest Fest. And there was one particular topic Tiffany, if you recalled it, you opened up that I don't know.
Well, let me just first say thank you again to Troy and Rashid, who hosts invest Fest. I'm sure you guys may already follow them on social media. They had an amazing gathering with tens of thousands of people who came with financial literacy inquiry and it was a great networking opportunity and they were polite enough to extend us the stage and we were joined by amazing guests. So if you haven't checked out that episode, please be sure you can find that episode on all Native Land properties.
During this conversation, we you know, were posing each other questions and Angela pulled the audience a few times, and I was sitting there or watching tens of thousands of people in the audience, and I started thinking, like, gosh, we're all sitting here trying to build wealth while democracy is falling around us, and we have this audience before us. How can we meet the moment to address some of these other things That's got me on this whole philosophical kick.
So I asked my fellow co host, the panelists, and the audience, just the plan a seed of thought that can black people thrive and survive in the very system of capitalism, which in America was born out of the plantation. So it was, you know, it was a lot of like cheers and yeah, but when I asked that question, it was a little quiet.
It was a little quiet.
We're talking about entrepreneurship, and you touched on this so beautifully, Reverend Bryant, when you talked about chase your purpose and not your profit.
And I'm just.
Sitting here wondering because so many people in entrepreneurship, a lot of people want to become Their goal is to you know, make millions, And I just wonder, the system of capitalism originated on the plantation, and if we are trying to build empires and not community. Does this system
of capitalism serve us? We may not be able to answer that on the panel, but I just want to throw that out to the audience to think about it as we're building businesses and hopefully building community, And if y'all had thoughts.
On it, I would love to hear it.
But I'm happy I posed it because it wasn't necessarily meant to be addressed then, but I wanted to at least plant that seed of thought because even that seems like their way of doing things. If we are, if we become individuals just trying to build our own empires, trying to build wealth, it seems like that adopts the whitest right way. Before we came to America, there were systems that there was no capitalism, you know, like we just didn't function that way.
Are you talking bothering? Because because I think that's part of what I'd like to invite from you now that we've got a little bit of time on it. Yeah, is how you may I don't want you to describe the perfect system, but if you have that, you would describe that you would want to be in a system of the economy or replacing the current form of economy we have, Like, what are the elements? What are some of the elements you might want to be included there?
Or what you might want to make sure we avoid.
Yes, so to me, if our it poses the question, if our basic needs are met, what do we get to create?
Who do we get to be? How do we get to function?
So there are political systems and there are economic systems, and some would argue in capitalism, I think Ibram Kendy said, I think racism and capitalism are twin components. Forgive me, Ebrahm if I'm misquoting you, so for me, And I've also read a few books about this. One I've referenced here is the work of fiction called Sky Full of Elephants. For me, I wonder like, if I'm just living in my space, growing in my garden and it's I can I can give to you? I have home, I have food,
I have shelter. And if I'm growing greens and carrots and potatoes in my garden and you're growing turnips and strawberries and peaches in your garden, can we function that way in this black city? That the guest in our main episode this week post in this black city.
Is it possible, you know? And I don't know.
I think it's worth having an action ual economists maybe address some of this, because I don't know what that looks like, but I at least want us to think about it.
I wonder too, if we should be.
Presuming that everybody wants the same things. Like part of what I heard you saying Tiff earlier was, you know, there's this idea that the convening that earn your leisure is the entity that puts on investmentst Is there something tone deaf about that right now? And there are people who are participating in those convenings, in those conferences, wanting to be a part of, you know, an investment group because they have always felt the way that some of
us are feeling right now. Right They've always felt under attack, They've always felt like they don't have enough, they always feel like they're having to choose one basic necessity from another. And the thing that I'm kind of fascinated by in this conversation is like, yeah, I'm like I want to set up mutual aid networks and bartering systems and all
these things. But there are a lot of people who are like, nah, I've been kind of doing some element of that, you know, Rob Peter to pay Paul, even though I would not put that stank spent on bartering.
But just go at me for a second.
So the mentality is now shifted to what do I need to do to secure the bag. We hear that language a lot or back at the back in our day, it was you know, get that money made right, like all of these things where or get your hustle on or whatever. There is some right, there's a thing where there is something we're aspiring to. And I don't think that aspiration is rooted in basic needs. It isn't being you know, a real estate mogul where you have a
ton of rental properties. It's being able to get that yacht and you set it off with your friends with the with asus spades. It's being able to get you know, a may back and you know cha Chase Rick Ross who found his dumb ass in the target the other day.
By the way, but I did I digress.
Uh, you know, there are all of these things, and I believe it's probably paid for it, like Hai Sanata, We'll do that another time. I think my point is that from our rap lyrics to.
You know, some of the people who we.
Aspire for the fact that they're Yes, the small number of black billionaires that exist, there is a deep desire to increase that number. And so if that is the case, bartering is not what they're striving for. You are rightly talking about survival in this moment. But if I'm honest, that doesn't get me closer to you know, taking my parents to Africa for.
A month, you know, Like I've been bawling on a budget. I would like to be off the budget, please.
Any So, I don't know if that in and of itself is capitalism or if it's capitalism influence, But I just wonder if there is safe if there's space for two of those ideas to safely coexist. And I don't know, but I think that's that's what I'm wrestling with, Like, do we say that, you know, okay, we're a capitalist because we're a capitalist society. In order for us to ball not on a budget, we too have to be capitalist? Or is there a way for us to still have abundance in a system that's.
Rooted in bartering and all that. Anyway, I'm in so well.
We have abundance. Can everybody have abundance? And I don't I write that that's I don't know. And I don't want to sit here and perpetrate either. I to desire wealth like I work towards it. People you know, constantly call out my hypocrisy because I mean, look, I'll be honest. I'm probably not going to fly coach unless it's like some sort of thing. I know that sounds horrible, but I literally will forget because they're like, oh, your luggage
is over. I'm like, no, it's not. And it's like, oh, I forget, Like if you're you know, you have a different luggage it is listen. I'm just being honest. It is a lifestyle that I aim for that and then when it shakes, you're like, oh, I am married to this system of capitalism. I was an argument with somebody and he's very successful, and I was arguing with him basically saying like, okay, but your success doesn't define you.
You could be some little African American history professor somewhere and that's like a dupe thing.
And he was like, do you hear yourself?
You said some little African American history like there is a ranking, and grant car is one of my favorite people. Like all, I put these people in the highest respect. But to be told to have my words reflected back to me that way, I did actually wonder like, oh, I have some of this embedded in who I am, and that's not okay?
How do I unlearn those things?
The hierarchy part. I didn't like hearing that repeated back to me. I was like, oh, that is true, like when I say some little you know.
I didn't like that. But why do you have to put a judgment, like a judgment value on whether or not you desire nice things and to fly?
I don't know why.
No, get I get the hypocrisy. I'm just saying why from a value set? To me? All right, I guess I am. I'm absolutely in in the capitalist system as we are. If you live here in America, unless you're off the grid and you do your own thing, I would be. I'm more concerned with where you You sort of hinted that, which is, what about the basic of needs being established across? What?
Why?
What? Why can't our system of capitalism establish a universal floor by which from that floor you can go on to achieve all the things in the world that you may want to. But at a very basic level, you're going to have a house, You're.
Gonna guarantee income or something like you.
At a basic level, you're gonna have access to health care that doesn't break the bank and break you for going in you know, to see about a communicable disease that you can transfer to other people, or a cold or a cough again that you can transfer to other people. That could equal much more. But we have impact on them than you. But so I just I wish our system of capitalism made more room and put more emphasis on a floor that way, I'm not trying to cap
your future. I'm not trying to put a cap on all the wonderful, amazing things you can earn and buy and create, which is what a lot of people fear when we have universal systems of anything, is that all you want to do is cap my income or cap my potential, cap my innovation, take it away if you regulate,
or so on and so forth. So I don't want to attack that part, even though I do believe that that part ought to be taxed appropriately, that they ought to make the contributions back to society as much as their secretaries do, which doesn't exist in today's capitalist society
and most forms. I believe the Donald Trump's of the world, and okay, maybe you're not him, but the most successful capitalists in this country largely believe that they shouldn't pay taxes because their contributions to the country is the fact that they create jobs for people here. I mean, I've heard wealthy people say that my contribution is is that I give other people a place to work. That's all fine. What I'm concerned about is your financial contribution back for
all that you have taken from the country. Amazon. You may be Amazon and you're the wealthiest guy and this kind of thing, but you're you're relying on the roads that we pay for in our taxes to move across to get your goods and services to people. You're not paying for that. But I am so. I just I think that we deserve a conversation about what would a universal floor, a point by which everybody ought to start from.
For black folks, at one point, it was the guarantee of forty acres and a mule for our service or for our renders service extracted from us, with no payment system in place whatsoever. It's still none. So if I had it my way, it would be it would be a Roosevelt era Second New Deal of what people can expect at a base level in this economy to have to meet their basic needs, and anything above that basic need then you can work in Claw four.
Okay, I can get with that. What do you call that? System?
With democracy? But I don't know.
Also overreliance on government, and I think this.
Is the one no no, no, not an overreliance on government.
That's if it's no, well, well I think it's mine.
So this is my argument right now.
Now, if Andrew was the president, i'd be with it, because I know it's about to happen, right and I think the reality is, not only do we are we not getting a New Deal twenty twenty five, we got Project twenty twenty five. And as a result of getting Project twenty twenty five, some of the basic things that we have relied upon for decades are now also not just at risk, but literally on the chopping block. And it any moment, folks will start to fill the real
economic hardships from those things being pulled back. So one of the things that that I reference a lot is this comment from Congressman Rango Make God Rest his soul, who was one of the founders of the Congressional Black Caucus. When he was retiring, he said that he often wonders if we spend too much time focusing on social policy and not enough on economic policy. And I think his perspective on that was many of the things that we seek to change socially we could address if we had
our own resource. But what we've done is we've set up a system where because we deserve it. Right, we're not saying we don't deserve it the government doesn't owe us, but because we deserve it, because the government owes us, we are going to hold them to account, to give them what they to give us what they owe. That's great, But at the same time, we were not building a
simultaneous system for things that we should also receive. In all of the attempts that we've had historically, from the Freedman's Bank to Garrison Fraser and the special Order Special Order Number fifteen to now, you know, to every demand we've had, it is somehow still related back to what the government must do. I think that the place where we've missed is what we must also do just in case the government does what the government does and does not do what there or give.
Us what they owe us.
Can I attract the mythology of the sure because I think it's just built on a myth. I think it is mythology. I want to hear it because whether you're black, white, or other, when those folks have gone gotten into places of wealth, those individuals have not necessarily taken those resources and put them back into building stronger society. They've largely concentrated them on themselves, in many cases, saving their own money and taking the government's money and using that money
as it's leverage to build even more wealth. And if not the government's money directly the services provided by the government. I gave the example of Amazon driving on our road. But you know, to take it further, the people who are in favor of abolishing the post office right and they're saying, you know, it is highly inefficient. This is that.
And the third No, the post office and the government as its owner, and we as a taxpayers rather as this owner, have made a guarantee that no matter where you live at the edges of this earth on in the United States, you will get mail. Universally. Everybody if you put a post a stamp and you live within
our you will get mail. Well, guess what. Amazon does not guarantee that anywhere you live, and in fact, where they do guarantee it, it is relying on the government and it's and it's suppostal service to get it the last mile to the client who asked for So. Even the private sector, which is you know, supposed to be so independent and pull yourself up by the boo strips and we did this by ourselves, are relying on us, the tax paying people who fund the government, to actually
make their business model work out. Most of the drug companies in this country, they're not spending the billions, if not trillions, and research required to take a theory about a drug that can solve a problem to market. They're relying on the government. It's research partner institutions, academic institutions both public and private, to do that work, and then they come in to monetize it and sell it back to us for you know, millions on the cost you know,
to create it. And so even those institutions that we look at as being so successful didn't get there by themselves. In fact, their success would not be possible but for their reliance on the government's skirt. All I'm saying is, if the billionaires can rely on the government to have their wealth, then why can't everyday, average working people rely on the government for its own basic services. The government by which it funds, not that the billionaires fund, but
that we, the working people of this country fund. Why can Andinavian countries that are all basically monolithic, because they're largely just, they're largely white. Why can Scandinavian countries provide these basic levels of services that are not considered, you know, a sucking on the government teat it is considered what is humane and what is That's what they're described as basic.
That everybody needs food, everybody needs shelter, safety and security, and we're going to provide those things that are most basic in humanity. And then everything above that you go out and you earn for yourselves. Because the truth is is that for those of us who think we're going out and earn it for ourselves, who are working, breaking their backs to work, the system of capitalism as we
understand it and know it and experience it. Hearing this country still doesn't pay me a wage that I can take care of myself and my family.
It's a big part of the trauma for me because I hear what you're saying. I completely agree, and I'm still caught up in my own hypocrisy around it. I think it's so embedded in us, you know, that we'd have to spend so much time on learning it. Growing up without is a traumatic experience, you know, Like I still every single day, I do little stupid things that why don't want I'm trying to speak kinder to myself. I don't want to say it's stupid, but things that
I have learned to do. So like when I go to get a paper towel, you know, maybe I need to wipe the counter down, I'm grabbing a paper towel.
I will not pull a whole paper towel.
I'm pulling a little piece of that paper, like as much as I think I need, because I'm trying to preserve if I have toothpaste, you know, like I'm.
Taking it to the white meat, you know, like all.
Right, And I can afford, Praise God, I can afford to go out and buy a new toothpast. I can afford to go buy new paper towels, whatever, But my mind is such that I remember, it's a scarcity mindset that whatever I have today I might not have tomorrow, so let me preserved. I'm like that with lotion, just everything, and so it is a constant and so that is a part of my desire for wealth. I'm always afraid
that I'm going to go back. So even you know, on a flight, it's like, okay, maybe a code seat is the best way to take a two hour.
Flight, you know, like just grab it.
But in my mind it's like, once you accept that, then that is like you have taken a step back, you have shifted timelines, and now you're going back this way. And there is trauma around that. There's trauma around of course. Yeah, not having enough for sure, and in this time and a time such as this, clinging so desperately to what we have because we don't know what's coming tomorrow.
That's real. And you're not doing stupid things. You're doing things that life has taught you. Yeah, your experience has taught you. And by the way, some of that stuff shouldn't be thrown off simply because we can afford more expensive.
So it's getting a new Earth is new expensive as well.
And good luck if you're trying.
To reusable paper towels now that I refuse.
Yeah, that is interesting. I can't wait to see you try that. I do think we have to unlearn a lot about what we are, what we have taught ourselves in what society has taught us, because we keep you know, we even talking point, you know, we regurgitate things that the culture has you know, of that time has sort of adopted and haven't even interrogated the truthfulness of it. Yeah, you know, people how to go out and get a
job and earn for themselves. Well, yeah, guess what, I know people who are working multiples of those and still aren't earning it. So who's who's who's that fault for this? The people who are breaking their necks and spending their minimum eight hours likely ten to twelve working, or the people who are failing to pay them what they are worth,
who are failing to pay them what they deserve. And so I just think systems of of uh, the financial systems like the one that we have where you can earn as much as you want to and that and I've got thoughts on whether or not that I'll have some whatever, But but largely the people who got earn
your innovation and your your hard work is rewarded. But your innovation and hard work is not aure to you because you have become a billionaire necessarily, because there are a lot of cheats who are right now at the top of society economic realms of society who didn't necessarily earn it. Okay, but but but and there are a lot of folks who are breakneck who do earn it and still aren't being rewarded for what they what they
really do earn by way of their contributions. But but that, but but that, what we focus on is at the very minimum, if as human beings who are in this shared experience, what could we provide as part of a society that would just meet people's basic human needs? And if we started there, man, I think the sky has the limits for where they could take it. You know how many inventors exist right now as working people who don't have the resource. This is where the networks to
scale their idea. You create openings for for for growth. We create openings. If we can get past desperation and just trying to survive, past that, you can get to innovation and thriving for everybody can we as.
Black folks This is not my idea, this is Natasha Brown, But can we as black folks trade directly with other countries legally?
Because we're the innovative people.
We have all these ideas, and so she was saying, like, why can't we orchestrate our own trade deals in the government?
Can't we? But right now, good luck in the next week, because the government under Trump has just removed dominus deminimus minimums for mail link packages. So previously anything that was mailed from another country to one other country, thinking about packaging and sending and trading, but moreover, thinking about people who use the internet to buy a lot of their goods from other that are made in other places. And
that is they used to be eight hundred dollars. Anything under eight hundred dollars in value, they didn't have to pay the tariffs on and they didn't have to pay the access and postage. For now the Trump administration has removed a minimus and next week those tariffs are going to be hitting those products and you're going to be
paying mountains more than what you paid before. So yes, the government has restrictions on how you can do that, and you but part of this is what you know from when you fly on a plane in your first class and you make those declarations about what you're bringing back and what you're taking that there are there are caps on what you can do. But Trump Trump and his administration has made that burdens made it even more burdensome.
And in seven or so days or whenever you're listening to this, about a week from today of our talking, that price is going to is going to go up pretty significantly for most people. Ye'ah. I know we have entered and weaned into a couple of different areas, but I want to thank Tiffany for this topic because I think it is one that we really ought to continue to interrogate and revisit. And that is what kind of system would we build if we had our brothers build
and participate in. But for our listeners, we thank you, of course for giving us a little bit more of your time. We do not take it for granted. You've got many choices, and we're really glad and thankful that you choose us. We hope also that you will listen to the other shows that are available on this platform and obviously rate, review, subscribe, and share with all of your friends. We are Tiffany Cross, angela Ryan I Manager, gill Them Welcome home, Welcome home, y'all.
Thank you for joining the Natives. Attention of what the info and all of the latest rock Gillim and Cross connected to the statements that you leave on our socials. Thank you sincerely for the patients, reason for your choices clear, so grateful to execute roles for serve, defend and protect the truth in this case, and.
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