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Welcome, Welcome, Well come, well come, well come, welcome.
Hey, fam, We hope you had an amazing Christmas and also happy Kwansa and just happy holidays, but whatever you're celebrating during this time of year. For this week's episode, we're going to do something a little different. We're broadcasting a very special holiday segment and a couple of our favorite mini pods from throughout the year that will help you get through these times that can be challenging for some of you for many reasons. Maybe you've lost somebody,
maybe you're going through a breakup. Maybe you have political strife and disagreement in your family, maybe you have a beef with friends. Whatever you're going through, you are welcome home here. You have a seat at our table always, and so we just wanted to get into a little conversation and talk about how to manage those challenging times and take a look back at some of our favorite conversations from the year.
So pull up a chair and join us.
All right, I know, I'll be honest. For me, the holidays are definitely challenging, but for a lot of people. It's a very joyful times. I don't want to act like it's all doom and gloom for everybody. This year maybe felt a little different for a lot of people. But Andrew, what about you?
Are you? You have little ones?
Though?
I feel like little ones always bring an element of joy to the holidays.
Yeah, bring an element of something. I broke empty wallet, you know, you know the exactly except I'm calling all three of them by name, likely the wrong ones, but anyway, you know, the holidays absolutely shifted for me with and I think Jay would reflect the same with kids, because it went from being about what I was going to get her and what she was going to get me, and what we were getting our parents and siblings and whatnot, to like, how do we make this very special for
the kids? I mean, we've created our own set of traditions around it, right like the day after Thanksgiving, the kids are like on me Ddy, the tree, the lights, the you know, and we spend all day doing that. And they are as much a part of it as as I am. In fact, they're more a part of it, and they take great pride in that. So so much of it for our household has shifted to be you know,
the kids centerfold. But you know I'd be lying if I didn't, you know, also say that, you know, I have real strong thoughts about my family members who aren't with us, My brother Eric, who passed away actually the year that my twins were born in a in an accident, my father who passed away, you know, a month and a half after my loss, and the and the governor's race, and I have you know, regrets that are visited upon
me during that time. I also am challenged typically as we approach the new year around like taking stock of what I did the last year, and like, am I proud of it? Am I let down by it? Did I let myself down? Other people around me let down? Am I inspired by it? Did I do so much that I think? How am I going to top this in the coming year? Actually, I have to say I'm probably more triggered about the new year than I am
about you know, the sort of Christmas kwansa. You know, you know that part of the season, that part for me is more joyous the beginning. But as I start to turn toward the next year, and because I am very self critical, almost always my reflection is about how I want to do more and better and really get this thing done. It really hit that goal, really organize myself differently, really pay attention to myself, or really pay
attention to my partner. That that gives me a lot of strain, and it's probably why I don't make resolutions anymore. Jay approaches the new year with a theme of like, you want to center myself more or something like that. I find those a little challenging and I absolutely find, you know, the resolutions like just untenable for me, and it puts me in a real kind of awkward state. In fact, almost every New Year's evens sort of weird.
I'm either trying to get mad at something, trying to get upset about something as an excuse for not having to deepen into like what I'm really afraid and terrified of, which is like a reflection and then a projecting forward about how to be better, or.
The police is coming down the street right now for somebody.
Oh lord, not in my house.
Ten years always anyway, I've never heard it before.
The whole podcast has been going.
I just heard it now. Maybe Joe Biden is going to free some people. But let us, let us pray I am. You know, the holidays shifted for me. My grandmother it was one hundred and five and her birthday is on Christmas and she passed away a couple of years ago. And my mom last year said she wanted to have a really big Christmas because she was just on the other side of a triple negative breast cancer diagnosis, and so we did a huge Christmas.
I was exhausted for three days. I didn't want.
To feed her and everything. We cook so much food and order to pajamas for sixty five people. It was fun, but it was a lot. And so this year, with my mom wrestling with cancer again, you know, I've just been talking to her about, you know, what she wants to do, and she's just like, I don't know.
So we're gonna do something.
I know this is after Christmas, but just being full disclosure, we record this before Christmas because we weren't gonna give that to y'all too. But I just, you know, I'm wrestling with what we're gonna do and wanting to make sure that it's her way, you know. But it is hard, and I think some of it is like aging Tip was talking about little ones. I wanted I want little ones, and to not have them still to be doing stuff
for Christmas is hard. But I'm so grateful for the kids who are in my life and for the many ways that you all make this holiday special.
And it's just time to.
Celebrate in my religion, my my faith, the coming of the save y'all, and so I'm always happy about that. Christmas Carols is going, lights getting put up, trees getting put up.
You guys. I ordered a black tree. I love it. I was very here.
Being black everything black. IM wear black uniform instead of gene. I'm just I'm feeling real black right now. So I even got a black tree with black ornaments. It's white lights, but it's all black everything on that damn tree.
I love that.
I don't know what that had to do with tips question, but I felt like that was a good time to tell you I got with the.
Question, are y'all a white are y'all white lights or a colored lights?
I have no tree in my house. I used to get a real tree and I would have my friend Mail. He would help me carrying my tree up and decorate. And then I'm like, why am I doing this?
Every year?
I got pines all over my floor and I got a.
Clean im not doing it.
It does, but it just became too much work.
Right, So now I don't decree water so the pine needles don't fall as much.
No, they hurt, yeah, but even carrying it in and out and it's just too much. And it's like I don't have kids, Like why am I doing this? So I really don't do any of the Christmas Day is the day where I can binge, watch whatever I want. I don't have the expectation that I got to respond to somebody's text. You know, I hate being on my phone, So it's just a day of relaxation and relief for me.
I think the sadness comes from there was a time where I was young and innocent to everything, and I was like surrounded by family and doing things, and I think that Christmas magic kind of left me and lost with my Maybe I was around eleven or twelve when things just happening in my family and it just didn't feel right, you know, it didn't feel Christmas anymore. And so I entered adulthood way before I was an actual adult.
And of course you have all these I can go anywhere I want on Christmas, I have so many invitations, but it's like, you know, I'm just gonna take the day and chill. And sometimes I'll stop by people's house and get a plate, but I really just binge, watch movies and relax. So I get that there's some heavy It could be heaviness to be by yourself. It could be heaviness to be around people. I protect my peace. That is the mode I'm in. I'm instituting boundaries and
protecting my peace and being by myself feels right. When I say by myself, I mean like I'm not with my family.
You know, you know I'm not.
Family.
Yeah, when was the last time year with your family?
Andrew asked, oh, oh god, how honestly?
Probably the nineties?
Wow? Probably.
And I was just getting ready to say when you were saying, oh I binge watched it, I was, okay, Tip, you've been saying, an invitation to Seattle is about to be like you ain't got to be by yourself.
But she's like, I ain't.
Got to be around Florida.
Yeah, And I have so many people who are like come over like friends and like people. You know, your friends become your family, and it's like people who in close parks and like come over, come over. But then that becomes a thing, and like I got to pull myself together and it's like, no, I ain't got to put no braw on today. I could put on my q ol plannel pajama. I can eat whatever I want.
Sometimes I order like from Joe's, like three hundred dollars of stone cold crabs, and I'm just like, you know, so I can enjoy myself in that way. But I
totally empathize because I'm not. I'm not sad on Christmas and so, but I do think about people who are sad, you know, who are like I'm sad because I got to be around somebody, or I'm sad because there is there are no invitations for me, like there is nowhere for me to go, and so I honor like what those people must you know, what it must feel like for them.
And they again, y'all have a home here.
Well, who's cooking? Since this is home?
I shook for myself.
The thing I make the best when it comes to Christmas stuff is mac and cheese.
I will battle anybody on mac and cheese. If you don't.
Like like my mac and cheese, well you don't like truffle. You might not like it, but my mac and cheese, I like, I would have said dressing Angela, but I yes, but made it this seafood dressing. And she was telling us about it in our our group chat. So I don't even want to compete for that. I'm like, just you just make me the seafood dressing, and I do a really good apple cobbler.
Those are the things that I do.
I think we should have an NLP pop look because I wanted to try to show down.
I'm so down.
I'm to volunteer J.
J cooking, But you talk about your mother in law's cooking like.
My mother in law and my mother all and guess what we're hosting and both of all of them going to be here, and so everybody's making something and I eat. You know, my contribution is I do breakfast, you know, not quite the holiday and give pancakes, eggs, bacon.
You make pancake better from scratch or it's out the box?
Hell no from the box?
Okay, well let's move right along for this, say everybody, everybody's pancakes from the box don't taste good.
Nick telling us we got a racket, but good.
That's why I didn't volunteer. That's why I didn't volunteer any of my dishes right.
Because I still want to try them, Andrew.
But before the space becomes unsafe, we want to talk to you all about is this space really safe? And that is a many probably did earlier this year, and that conversation, y'all got pretty heated, which we don't love those, but it was important for us to engage and to speak our truth. We took an opportunity to ask ourselves how do we create a safe space? Given our pledge to you all every week to make sure Native Lampod
is a safe space. We hope that you enjoy this particular segment and maybe take away some tips for how you make a safe space for you and yours all.
Right, Welcome home, everybody. This is Tiffany Cross, Andrew Gailam and Angela Rai and you are tuned into this week's mini pop Welcome home again. Home is not enthusiastic enough.
We mean it.
We mean it.
I mean it. I don't have to yell to be.
We mean it.
Welcome home.
This is our home and this is your home, and just like any family, we have disagreements sometimes, and so we thought it was important to share one of those more heated, intense discussions that we had last week with you all, and to know that right after that podcast was over, maybe ten minutes after everybody was good, we were all all back, because that's how.
It works with family. Will you skip some steps, but I'll let you have it? Well, do you we can say what we want to say about it? And Andrew, do you want me to say the whole thing or do you want me to say.
I'll say this is I knew that in the moment while we had already had a long day, and then of course we got to the subject of what value each of us puts on what we choose and desire to platform. And that does feel a little personal because you're now asking me what lens, what vet do I put on on on what I think we should be talking about on this show, and to the extent that we scrutinize each other's you know, vetting, it can feel
real personal. So I completely got that. But I will sell you this and I think I said this Angelou tip. I can't remember who one of y'all that what I knew in that moment, although it was very tense, and and whatnot was that that we were not going to leave New York without resolution, which is not something that
I would bet on in many relationships that I know of. Friendships, romantic relationships are otherwise, where you have confidence that there's enough love and respect in this space that before we leave this place we will be reconciled, even if it is we still disagree. But guess what, it was never my intention to hurt you and not I'm really sorry that you were hurt by what I say, like that backhanded thing, right fact, that's not going to happen because
that's not who we are. That's not who we are at this stage in our lives. And the other thing that I appreciate about who we are and not who we are about this stage in our lives is that I don't think either of us feel like we've got to beast one another, like we got to one up end. I don't feel like I have anything to prove to
either one of you. What I felt like I want to do is to show up as my best self every time, and even in those moments where I can't, I want to be able to count on the fact that y'all know me well enough that you and love me and care for me enough that you'll have grace and those moments where we can't. And so I just I know y'all have more to say about this because
you had some after conversation. I just felt like, I know it's heated right now, but you know what, keep it pushing, because we're not leaving this space without feeling complete.
I love that.
I think.
You know.
I was feeling really defensive, and I was telling Tiff when we walked out of the room, like we were all walking down the stairs quietly we recorded some other evergreen content that honestly it might end up being trash because my energy was completely off.
I wouldn't even hardly.
Look at it.
And I was like looking silently talking to Andrew. Feels like he was talking to which doesn't just happen when we're mad. Sometimes Andrew to preach it anywhere by himself. He'd be like, somebody gonna get it, hello, lights.
But the bottom line is I literally walked out the room.
I turned around ativity I was like, you heard my feelings, and I was in tears, and then she was like, don't cry, You're gonna make me cry, and that is I mean, that's it.
I think that part of.
I think part of what happened is, you know, a lot of times in life people aren't in tune with where they are on their journeys, and so I think I've done a lot of work from a therapy perspective to like, no, oh, this person was rising up because sixth grade Angela showed up.
I was feeling bullied. Nobody was saying anything to bully me, but I was feeling it.
And Tiff give it. Being the media strategy she is, she was like, oh my god, I could see that because you were literally sandwich between me and Andrew and we were on the same side. You were in the middle, so you're like squished. I was like, oh my god, I didn't even think about that.
So there's that.
Plus I'm not sleeping where work really hard on Marilyn Moseby's petition, like there's so many things happening, I'm waking up at tiffany hours, and for any of you all that know me, no, like I'm a night out, so that means I'm sleeping like three or four hours right now. So I think I was uniquely tender from that just like when you have a little kid with if it's your child, you know, it's like, oh no, you need
to go to bed. It was one of those sleepy you're not thinking clearly, you're you know, you're delirious, and I just I was feeling tender, and so I thank God for this safe podspace that we've created where I could say I'm feeling tender. And when Tiff said you think I said that, how I heard it was very different than her intention because she started feeling defensive, like how could you possibly think I was saying that? And then I was like, why would you talk to me in that tone?
And then we were crying.
And then Andrew missed all the tears, but I think deep down somewhere he probably had one single thug tear, because I think every now and then not the glory tier too. But I will also just say I think one of the things at that moment for me, you guys, is it made me connect to what our listeners may have felt when they talked about how we answer questions.
And so the question I have today really is, in this space that we created, our pod, our unique little bubble, our safety bubble, what is our obligation to each other and then to our broader audience to hold that safe space, to ensure that people don't feel over attacked, that they don't feel like they're being put on the defensive, that they don't feel like we're trivializing what they say, and
certainly that we're not doing that to each other. And then what is our responsibility when somebody may have a trigger that maybe we're not even aware of, Like, how do you navigate that space? I think this is one thing that will help us not only be a better podcast, but better people to be in relationship with, whether it's your church, community, your family, your friends, whomever. Like, what is our responsibility collect and as individuals to create safety?
Sure?
Well, I will give my assessment and answering that question.
I think you know, Angela, you carry.
A lot, and we're all Type A personnet like extreme Type A personalities, and it's very few people being a Type A personality. It's very few people. I'm gonna trust that you have it all together, But Angela is definitely one of those people. If Angel's like I'm taking lead on this, I trust that you have it all together. So my takeaway might be a little different from both
you guys. My takeaway is just because there are people in your life and your circle who are always on top of things, who always have it together, we have to also caution ourselves that we're not doing the superwoman myths on these people, you know, because honestly, the way I thought, I expected this to be a brawl in how we cover, but not a brawl in the way that it was. But that Angel's gonna feel really strong and come back and say, well, let me tell you
why you and Andrew are wrong. And I think I did not in that moment hold space for everything Angela was feeling and going through and doing. And so the lesson I think as a takeaway is don't assume because the person in your life that's always juggling everything, is always on top of it, is always that person. Like we all have a right to, you know, have a moment. You know, Angeli, you are always quick to take ownership of things, And I'm like, I don't think it's all
on anybody, you know. I think it's in how we all collectively hold space for each other. I'm giving sometimes, you know, Andrew was, you know, saying we needn't be so highbrow or whatever, like Andrew says said that to me sometimes, and I wanted him to say it on air that day because I'm like, they're probably people out there who feel that way, you know. I like highlighting our different perspectives and disagreement because we you know, we
get to do that here. We didn't get to do that in other spaces because we were like under the umbrella of like black commentators. But the the we're not homogenous in our community, and so we get to have
these nuanced disagreements and what we cover. I thought it was a really robust conversation that one I don't like when things escalate to that level, but the comfort in being friends with people for multiple decades, as you know, business family, and it's going where we wanted to be good and not we're going to be good, you know, and we communicate spoken and unspoken, you know. And so I wish Andrew had been on his job and had been cutoutowing me and behind the scenes footage and.
Getting us hugging in the alley whatever.
But it it just I thought, it's a different lesson, I know, But then you should have been out there on camera with your camera phone.
No, I shouldn't have not loving hip hop to.
Like our vts.
And I think we all deal with like these things differently, right, So Angela at a different point may have needed us to lean in or to pull out. But you, you, and I may have a different relationship with conflict or with the way in which conflict is handled. So, for instance, if things get too emotional for a long time, for me, if things got really emotional, my first comment was, and Jay is gonna like, amen, this was you're not a victim.
We both have our grievances here, this is you, This is where I am da da, but noither of us are victims here. And it was now that in reflection, I'm thinking what a harsh insense it is, and like non loving way to approach a conflict is to say like you're not a victim. That is like the worst place to go with it. And thank God for Angela introducing me to therapy in a way that I had never been before really helped me to get outside of it because the only thing I needed to hear was
how are you feeling? And whether I feel like I did something to necessitate that or not. The truth is is that a person who I love and care deeply about about reacted to a thing that I did or said in this way, and that isn't what I want to happen. I want you to hear me clearly, but I certainly don't want to level you in the process. I don't want you to walk away feeling like you're less intelligent, or you have less to contribute, or that your voices and as important or as valued. And I'll
just disclose. You know, Angelina, I had a conversation yesterday after our Don Lemit interview, and I was, you know, saying to her that, you know, I've sort of gotten used to, at least in some ways in our podcast, like not really fighting for the space in every conversation.
Like if comments are being had or being said and either I'm not invited directly into it, or the conversation takes place and I've not made a contribution, my default position might be like, Okay, I'm not of value at this space and in this time, And the the adjustment or the compromise I made with myself is like, Okay, just accept that in some spaces and at certain times,
you won't be of value. And what Angela was pointing out was that may be an incident where you might not feel that way, but to the point that that becomes now your conduct, You've negotiated yourself into a space where every week you now feel like you have to just sort of sit with it, be quiet, keep it moving. Time is going. I don't know how to shut up. Whatever the thing is that the self talk that I'm telling myself now we are completely disrupting the very environment
we're trying to create for ourselves. The very environment we're trying to create is that I don't have to be curated through the world's lens. That if this conversation takes me away from one about politics and one about the fact that, gosh, I feel no real worth in this moment, and I don't want to be in a I have too much respect for myself. I'd like to think that I don't want to be anywhere where my contribution isn't valued,
where I'm not making a contribution at all. And to your point, Angela, about where we have to be respectful and where do our listeners show up? They show up all the way through this.
It breaks.
I can't tell y'all if you're on the listening side of this what it did to Angela and Tiffany when we got some comments about from some of the listeners who said, I felt like you all disrespected the questioner here, like you just completely. I'm sitting on the I'm sitting here with them on a you know, on the telephone, and they're like, I can't believe that. I just I can't believe I wasn't aware of that and this, and they're going back and forth. I'm like, y'all you want
to call them on three? Ay, y'all want to FaceTime? I mean, like, what are we.
Going to do?
No, I was saying.
He was genuine. That's the scary part. He really wanted to FaceTime these people.
Absolutely was serious. I was like, we have to unburden this and I'm really sick of this. I can't believe we said that. And I got to go back and look at our the veal and all that. I'm like, look, which I want to do about it? And so just know that it isn't anyone's intention to go that way.
And I think in our apology the following week, I mentioned that sometimes we're not even responding directly to what the question is, which is part of our obligation to respond to what the question is because you posed it and we respect you enough to give you an answer. But we're responding to all of the clouds, the layers of stuff that we've had to dig through all week,
and all of everybody else's misimpressions about that thing. And now we feel like, oh, this is the window to correct the rest of the world, not you the questioner, but the rest of the world on that perspective. And so I have nothing but love and respect for our audience. And that has to mean more than our words. That it has to be manifest in our actions, not just in the way that we experience it, but also the way that you, our listeners, experience it. And that's just
the work in progress. But know our heart.
Please all right, job, We're gonna take a quick break, but don't go anywhere, because we still want to talk more about how to create safe spaces, not just for us, but for you as well.
We'll be right back.
I even like having this conversation and putting it out there for our viewers because I want the audience to feel like they are part of the conversation. And I think what they appreciated about the mini pod last week is they felt like they were eavesdropping on a private disagreement with all of us. And I think all of us maintain how we feel. I don't think Angela you feel any different. I don't think Andrew you feeling different.
I don't feel any different. And it's like, yeah, we can have these three opposing points of view and still come together as family, as friends and you know, spend time with Yether and laugh and you know, nothing changes. And I think that's what we're the society we're trying to build and go for in terms of our audience and the things that we platform here and creating a
safe space for our viewers and for each other. I just want to make this plea to our audience and say, even when we disagree with you, we love you.
You know.
I think that I often say this to Angela, and I probably said this you too, Andrew, Like I think it's black people. We don't have the privilege to dislike each other nobody, you know, right, But but there are people who, you know, they're not my favorite people, you know, so among us, I'm like, I don't really rock with him, I don't really rock with her, but out here in this world if something were happening, then I got to be a part of the army defending that person, you know.
And so we feel that way.
Even when you give a comment that I feel is a little disrespectful to the w NBA, we still welcome you, brother, We welcome you a comment, you know, like you're gonna have to get some.
Of the smoke.
Although I did think it was a hoax.
But yeah, well either way, you know, I hope it wasn't. I hope, I hope he had more respect for us giving hope, But who knows. Even when we disagree that we want you to pull up a seat to this table. You know, we've all come from spaces where we didn't feel welcome. For twenty four years, I didn't feel welcome in you know, mostly white run newsrooms that constantly dismiss my input and value and opinions. So I don't ever want either of my co hosts to feel like they
don't have value. And I certainly don't want our audience, who shows up to us every week twice a week to hear us, to not feel like they have value. So we thank y'all for rocking with us, for tuning in every week. I thank you Angela for inviting me and Andrew to be part of this podcast and build this thing brick by brick with you. I thank you Andrew for the times that we have on this podcast. But honestly, my favorite time is when we're not on the podcast, and it's just when Andrew and I get
one on one time. I feel like it's so calming. I'm always telling you some personal drama I have or something, you know, Andela off doing something, she's on a flight, she doing something else, and I'm all about, like, where's where's a good restaurant? So Andrew and I'll go eat sometimes. But Angela and I also spend a lot of time.
Too as the ladies.
Uh, we have a whole girl group, so I get my alone time with each of them, but with with Andrew, I just I truly value you, both personally and professionally. So I just I love y'all for having the space, and just thank y'all for for for dealing on the days when I'm giving whatever I'm giving.
When I'm giving highbrow to Andrew.
You an.
When we were walking.
In Sancho Park, he was so like smooth jazz when you know how he does Angela and he was like, I had I was a bit elevated at the time. And sometimes when I'm like that, I it means I go inward.
Okay, I just get mute.
What does that mean to It means that I had a mood ordering substance that sent me on a flight. Okay, and it's a good, beautiful day. I've rolled it to the Sangraal Park. And Andrew was talking to me, and I hear it. But sometimes your thoughts are like they run away and you're like no, no, no, no, wait, and the thought is gone. And Andrew was like, you know, when you get like this, you just have this judgmental look on your face.
And I don't care for it's just exuding judgment.
No, but I have it's not even judgment.
But I was laughing so hard because he said it was just so funny to me.
I'm like, see this is yes, I don't care for it. I don't care for it. It's just it's so proper.
That in most places I wouldn't have two words to say to the other person about how they look or what they're giving.
Andrew, you give the craziest cuss outs with no cuss words and big words. Sometimes you make up the words as.
Well, but yeah, like, yes, hilarious.
All right, do we feel complete with this conversation or do we.
Well, we didn't read the comment I wanted to read.
I believe it's Janice Paris right, and it says I have been listening to your podcast since episode one. Just so y'all know, we are not going to make a practice of reading these comments. We expect for you to send in videos. But just because it was on point since episode one, I share the podcast a few times. I believe in what you are doing because it is imperative and needed. After listening to your last mini pod, I resonate with all your viewpoints because they are valid.
I must say I lean toward Angela as I too was blindsided, as I would have never imagined millions on millions of people could ever be scammed by Trump. I am from NYC, and my very arrogance thought people knew he was deplorable in every aspect of being empty, nothing good and possibly evil. Keep going and know that you're valuable information is appreciated. Keep fighting for the good, and as you know, great things start small. Sometimes I love the podcast.
I love that comment.
I love it too.
Sure, I'm sure you love it. Angela. No, no, no, I didn't.
I really think like she was like, I agree with her screaming on the podcast she was saying she agreed with like being blindsided by like y'all really think you could vote for this?
That was knocking? Get it? Yeah?
So not that part. But yes, I do appreciate them.
But you know, I appreciate that no matter how we feel or what we say, we're three intelligent people with people out there who will reflect back, like yes you had a good point, or yes I agree with you, or yes I agree with all three of you all.
I think that's what it's for.
So I like that we You don't want all three of us having the same perspective coming up with the same ideas, you know, yeah, we don't.
But the one thing I would love to ask our listeners, if you guys don't mind, is we didn't dive enough into what it looks like to create a safe space. And since we are so lacking and safety in so many places, some people at home don't have safety, some people at work don't have safety, Some people in their neighborhoods don't have safety.
What does it look like?
What does it look like to create safety.
On this podcast? For you?
What would it what would it look like to be in this bubble with us and to feel like you have a safe place to process your political gripes, to get talking points to take back to your families, into your communities.
What does it look like to create safety here?
Do we want that on video or in comments or both?
I would love the videos I love because I want to play them and see that I want I want the video responses. We have a video on our Instagram page at Native Lampard where you can see how to submit a video. We will repost that in our stories when this air, so you all can send in your videos and let us know what safety looks like to you on and that.
I like that. We love the money that jingles, but.
We prefer the We did a whole Broadway routine in Central Park.
We and our movies. We did a whole thing. Anyway, stay tuned for me and Nan.
I'm excited that he's got some movie lines.
I'm all right, we'll do that'll do. Thanks for listening, y'all home.
Yeah, so this is one of my favorite episodes. In fact, ladies. I don't know if you'll remember, but it came up because we were at the DNC convention and uh, Angela may have said something. I think I responded, it's safer there, and that spawned you like, this is a mini pod. Is it safer in the shallow or the deep? And all of us have relationships close and otherwise where we're constantly asking ourselves a question like how much do we reveal? Is it safe if I reveal this? Do I hold back?
Is it better to keep it superficial with niceties and positive encounters? Every time? And we debate the question, and I am still trying to answer for myself. Take a listen. I love to love to hear what you all think. Is it safer in the shallow with the deep?
So I don't remember how this question came about Miami. I know it was in Miami, and somehow we started talking about the shallow end and the deep, and I think Andrew said that it was safer in the shallow. Yeah, I wonder if that indeed is the case.
And so.
I am hoping that we can discuss some of these I have some questions that I that I want to ask y'all I think the first thing is to talk about like it is frowned upon for someone to be deemed as shallow, right, Like if someone is like, oh there's a shallow what is that? What does that mean? Like, what does it mean for someone to be shallow to you?
Tif? What does it mean You're like, oh, this person is shallow? What does that mean?
That everything is surfaced?
I guess it's like if you you can't even have a philical sophical.
Yes, if you if you can be.
Philosophical, I think that tip might be shallowed today.
They cannot have a philosophical discussion, Like they couldn't even participate.
That, we cannot have a serious making laughing, you're not.
Doing anything.
It's just like they can't have a philosophical discussion. I'm not looking at you all and when you like, they're not engaged on anything beyond what I would consider like be issue. Even if we're talking about like celebrity gossip, like it's stays at.
You know, celebrity gossip.
If we're talking about rap lyrics, you know, like everything is just kind of who cares? But can I say though I have a friend who doesn't read any news, all of her information comes from like Instagram. You know, she is a mother, but she's like the embodiment of love. And I think these two things are related because I think it's easy to go through the day and maybe through life being joyful when you're oblivious to all the
misery happening. And I've read this in a book somewhere, and they said that humanity does not function on human kindness. It actually functions on human callousness. Because if any of us ever truly confronted the monstrosities that happen every day as human beings, we would not be able to function. So there is some safety perhaps in staying in the shallow.
But even your friend who reads who doesn't read papers, doesn't necessarily mean that she's shallow. Are we talking about substantively show shallow, Like, yeah, she's joy like intim actually shallow?
Or are we saying that there is there more than one way to be shallow?
Yeah, I think people who find it difficult to choose not to or don't have the ability to see or understand subtexts. Yeah, like beyond what is said and what is obvious, that there's a refusal, either deliberately or an absence of ability to see beneath. And there's some people, I think who use the tool of shallowness simply as that.
A tool, Yeah, like a defense mechanism.
Or I would get you coming the other way. It's sort of like you won't see me coming. It's sort
of like you won't see me coming. So you've ever been in community with people who you may have relegated to the category of shallow, not deep, not the person you're going to go to for a real conversation, and then in an instance, you happen to listen or you happen to hear them in something that they have said really prickture consciousness, because it isn't on the superficial it is they sort of had a moment where they revealed that I'm as deep as you. I can go there
if I want to. I choose to keep this relationship where it is so that I don't have to do this is that And the third with view and I think that I have experienced people who have used the veneer of superficiality as a way to cover for what I've come to learn as a much deeper thinker, analyzer, and quite frankly.
Operator, Yeah, you know, and.
An operator to their benefit, right in their interests.
One of the things I'm thinking about now because it's like if you contrast between somebody who is shallow and someone who is deep, at least theoretically, or maybe they vacillate between the two. The person who I was just thinking about is Congressman Bennie Thompson. He is not shallow at all, but he says things that feel sometimes that feel very surface, like he can reach you at USA today and it has, you know, some shakespeare like meaning and it doesn't even sink in like that until later.
We were having a conversation recently, and I'll speak more vaguely, but I was in trouble because he felt like I wasn't reaching out the way that I should, and he was right, and he was just like something like you know. I was like, So I called him the next or a couple days later, and I said, I'm just calling to check in. I don't want anything. I just wanted to make sure you knew that I was here. And he was like, yeah, I'm just telling you to just check in every now and then.
And he was like he was making fun of me. He's like, I talked to your dad more than you. My dad calls all of them all the time.
On a surface level, on a shallow level, it sounds like just tapping in every now and then is a very shallow point.
But it is.
It actually isn't like it.
It is.
There's a ton of depth attached to it.
When you check in with someone, it creates attachment, it creates relationship, and it ensures that people know just what's going on in people's everyday lives. When you don't check in with someone, you don't necessarily know they need surgery, or you don't necessarily know that someone in their family's struggling, or you know there are all of these different layers that you miss from what feels like a relatively shallow touch.
Yeah.
Also, I find with those shallow touches, it might appear, if you want to categorize it that way, that those touch ins also provide just that nugget, like something happens in the course of that exchange. Yeah, that again might transform the battle that you might be in. He may not be as clueless about the battle as you're fighting
as you think. He is, maybe more tuned in. He never is, And where you choose to check in, Yeah, he may be the South, and something that he says may be the South that you've been looking for and you just didn't know it. I found with my father that while he didn't talk a lot to us right unless it was a directive, that when he did choose to say something, he was really saying somethings, and I didn't always get it. He'd say, he'd have to say, don't take no wood Nickels off nobody now Nickel, Well,
you're right, they don't exist. There is no wood Nickel, right, it didn't spend And in other words, it's like, don't be tricked, don't be fooled, don't be you know whatever. I've shared this when I talked about my own testimony, where he says, you know, son, don't believe the hype like the hype music. Yeah, if you believe what they say good about you, you believe what they say bad, and you'll be a slave to them both. And I had no way to see that properly at the time.
But his advice then was as prescient, you know, as ever, and if I would have applied it properly, Sometimes you need the experience, you know, of what not to do before you appreciate that, you know, the advice. But but it had I known, man, it would have been. But most people would have thought my daddy was just his nickname was Sonny, you know, almost like you know, you know, bright and cheery. He never met a stranger. In fact,
that my graduation is like two little times. So many people you know, can get around to your dad, right, get around and touching me and meet everybody. So you just thought it was just happy, happy, you know, good, go lucky and and truth. He was an observer, very perceptive of people, incredibly aged and wise, you know, advice and so even in this conversation about what's deep and what's superficial, a lot of people who think they're deep ancient at all.
Exact exactly the point. Confused, Yeah, very confused makes a good point.
She's like when she was around all these like heads of state and that, you know, high profile people, it's.
Like some of y'all ain't that smart. And I used to have that.
I mean, we say imposter syndrome, but I think imposter syndrome is when a white man came along and told you weren't good enough to do something, and it stuck with you because you don't you're not born with that. And I remember feeling like everyone around me must know something that I don't until you start talking to folks and it's like, yeah, I actually.
No more than yeah, what I don't know.
I can learn, but you ain't gonna learn what I know. You know, some things that we know is just by osmosis. I think I choose to be shallow on something. I have to go out of my way to force myself because I have to be honest on days. It might be a random Saturday where I don't read anything. I might read like a book of work of fiction, but my spirit does feel a little lighter when I don't.
Do you just here's the question, because this is the second time now when referencing deep or shallow you go right into like, yeah, and well reading something. So your friend who you said is so loving, but you're like, she doesn't read anything.
She's not shallow, she's really deep, right.
But then you said on your shallow days, you're not reading something. I wonder how we then define that's good? Yeah, you know depth, like it's just book knowledge.
That's true. How far we defined.
That's because I couldn't get to the knowledge place because I thought, I don't know that it is. Oh, I don't know that it is about our degrees or what we real or how much information that sort of thing. I think it's like what you see is not the ability to sort of discern what you see isn't what it really is, And that applies across you know, the range of subject matter so on and so forth, that it takes work to investigate a subtext. It takes effort.
You have to put energy, the expenditure of energy into trying to figure out what somebody's trying to communicate to you or what they're saying without saying it. So I think a lot of us really do choose in different relationships at different moments, whether or not we just want to keep this there or if we're willing to go the layers beneath, and so maybe we're not perpetually any of it.
That I think is so true because when I consider the people who are like vulnerable off top, to me, that's deeper than someone who is like, hey.
How you doing you good?
You look goods good?
That's very surface. But someone who can say, man, you know I've been going through a lot. You know, behind all my taxis I got my kid is struggling like they're they're putting it all on the surface, but they've done the work for that stuff to come out.
I think that's so different, and that is a form of depth.
And so that is my question when we consider the space that we're creating on this podcast or the people that we want to be in the world, is it really safer on the shallow end? Is it safer in the shallow for us than in the deep?
Where you know?
On the shallow end, are you really known? Can you really be yourself in the shallow when you know your multi dimensional and have all these layers, Like, is that really safe where you're not yourself?
Is it safer for you Angela in the shallow?
No?
No, I'm a scorpiogre.
Yeah, Like I need you to stareing to see my soul, yeah, you know, and I want.
To see yours.
And I would prefer if I didn't have to navigate through some crazy forests and some booby traps and stuff to get there.
I think for people who I know and love, I'm like you, I want to be known. But I have to say that is fairly new for me. You said this to me a while ago, Angela and I had two fights. We had one fight, No, we had to who was the second one? The second one we aired the one y'all know that.
Andrew was like, can't we all just get along?
People in the comments fundy on Andrew, they like, I love the way Andrew handles Angela and Tiffany's they're like, okay, I don't have literally on Our first one was over a guy, and you remember we were at lunch and it was.
It wasn't my potential booth that sounds like you like Monica.
Was he don't deserve your ass.
Yes that Angela's point was, he doesn't deserve you, not even to breathe your air.
Yes, she was right for the record, but imagine that listener.
But what no much offensive but me. I said it and I echo it now. But what you said to me, which I hear this message, I'm Tiffany crist and I approved that message. But what you said to me at the time I had not heard before. The question hadn't been posed to me before. And you said, I wonder when you come home to yourself dot dot dot. There was some other stuff after that, but I thought about that, what does that mean? To come home to myself because I had been in a shallow with myself for a
long time. But when you go deep. Our other sister for Latasha Brown, said this to me. I'll go over laughing to cry and I'm like, it's good.
Latasha said this to me.
Latasha Brown, she was telling me when I was just going through a lot, and she said, you know you this sounds mean, but she is a body of love. And she said, it's like you have a bowl of shit and you have put flowers on top, you spray perfume on top, and you present that to the world. But this is like, this is okay, and you present that to people who you want to get to know. But the thing about shit, you can't cover up shit.
And until you deal with that shit deep inside, you have to clean that out first for those flowers to really bloom. And I hope this encourages somebody today because that is when I realized, oh, this is the journey home to myself.
It's not this happened to me and I'm moving on.
It's like, no feel your feelings, sit in your feelings, be self, your friends, the people around you reflect back to you who you are. See that ugly reflection and work on it and clean it out and come home to yourself because you leave home and you go out there and work throughout your trauma that your parents in childhood unintentionally, and then on that journey home back to yourself, it's like, oh, let me get rid of this, get
rid of this shit, and let flowers boom. So I'm recently in deep with myself, but for a long time, even unbeknownst to myself, I was in the shallow.
I ain't even expay to get bad.
I appreciate the trust. All right, y'all, we're going to take a quick break and be right back. I think for me, I I definitely took a long way round to the invitation for people to know me more deeply, and one because I didn't think people were that interested and right it was, you know, I sort of saw myself as a production wheel. What can you put out,
what can you put out? Give me more? You know, you know that sort of thing, and therapy largely thanks to Angela, you know, and our Jay's insistence of sitting down and just sort of figuring out how to come home to myself and that when you do that, you are a lot less concerned about people's thoughts, perceptions, feelings
about you. Not in a disrespectful way, but just in a way that you know what, I'm gonna do this thing, and I'm going to do it because it's in my pleasure, not because this is what your expectation is of me, this is what you want from me, or I'm not in a performative state, but rather, if I come up to you and you and I engage in something at a deeper level, it's simply because it was in my pleasure at the time. Yeah, And if we don't get to that, I'm not being superficial with you. I'm just saying,
what's up, how you doing? I hope all this well and I'm moving on, and you should as well. We had a positive encounter because we did, and I do wish you well, But I didn't open an invitation to know that the world was upside down for you, partly because everybody doesn't deserve that. Have me earned that from you? Everyone it shouldn't be treated to that. And I don't think that is a denial of yourself. I don't think that is a departure from who you are. I don't
think that is putting on. Certainly, if you're acting without expectation, I'm not doing this thing because I want this thing to be said back to me in return. I didn't do that thing for you to compliment me. I didn't give that speech for you to be wild bowed over and say, oh, you're an excellent speaker. I did it, and I said it, and it came out that way because it was in my pleasure, it was in my truth.
I stood there and if you get something from it, good, And if you didn't, that's okay too, because I did it not in service to that, but in service to me, and by being in service to me that God knows it, I believe it will bless beyond Yeah. Otherwise, there was no intention of doing it that way, or doing it at all, and therefore it wouldn't have happened. So I think we choose the moment at which we have our reveals, whatever those reveals may be. And I don't want to
judge them those reveals. It's just that's where you and I are each other, and we might encounter each other on another day and we may be someplace different, because you may be someplace different, and your expectation of me may be different at that time. But what I like about this conversation is I think what we're going to get leading to is that we're taking the value judgment off of the the shallow from the depth, yeah.
And exploring what it means.
I appreciate you saying, is it the second time you brought up reading something or like knowledge and what I perceive it to be. But that's not really the shallow or the deep like that's just you know, it's the form of it.
It's intellectual depth.
But is there there's there's another kind that I think results in real human connection, right like intimacy people will say, means into me see and can.
You do that?
If there's a shell or there's a layer, or there's a that really you know, maybe came as a result of a very deep, deeply wounded place, but it's created a barrier that feels very shallow. We talk about creating a safe space here, we can't create a safe space here for our podcast if we're not safe spaces for ourselves as co hosts and also as individuals, and that is a regular journey or a return home to yourselves.
I also don't want to take credit for that that's a yachty saying to return yadi home to ourselves, but it is a regular return. Like you think about going home every single day, you have to go and check back in every single day, sometimes multiple times a day, like where am I?
Right?
Am I still? Who I say? I am? Am? I?
You know?
Where are my conflicts? Where are my flat sides?
Every single week on this podcast, I feel like there's something glaring where I'm like, oh my god, I see my hypocrisy here, and I'm going to call it out so I can be accountable to y'all, our listeners and keep growing. That is also a return home to myself. And you were talking about the reveal.
We're revealing we literally are shedding layers.
Yeah, you know, every every day, probably multiple hours in a day, we're shedding these layers. And so my hope is that in this conversation that will never end because we're constantly waiting a little bit deeper. We hope that you all will consider what depth really means and how you can wait in and out of the shallow, but making sure that you know how to create safety for yourself.
So that's safety.
Yeah, Can I just say one more thing? When you were talking about creating safe space for co hosts. To me, that's the easier part. Creating the individual part is the hardest part, like being at peace internally and seeing your hypocrisy. You know when you watch yourself, when you hear yourself, and it's like, oh, that is something that I have to sit in, that I have to address, I have to deal with. I have to unpack and come out better on the other side. And I don't know that
we have an answer to the question. It might not be safer in the deep end, but you have to learn to be comfortable in the deep end with yourself because that's your home.
That is your home.
Yeah, welcome home, y'all.
Welcome y'all.
Thank you guys so much for tuning into this very special episode of Native Land Pod our holiday season edition, and we're so happy that you pulled up a chair and joined us at our table. You got some good recipe ideas and also some good philosophical exchange from us from our mini pods over the years. So stay tuned for that Native Land pot luck because we may be revisiting that. As always, we do want to remind you to leave us a review. What'd you think about this episode.
This you got time to leave us a review, so leave us a review and let us know what you thought about this episode.
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We're available on all platforms in YouTube, and don't forget to check out our mini pods. You got a clip of what some of those mini pods are going forward. Be sure to check them out there every Monday and follow us on social media. We are your hosts, Tiffany Cross, Angela Rai, and Andrew Gillham.
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