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Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Home, Everybody. This is episode counted ninety one, Just nine Shype, our one hundredth episode of Native Lampod where we give you our breakdown on all things politics and.
Of course culture.
We're your co hosts today, Angelouri, Andrew Gillham, and our sister friend Tiffany Cross, who is the third co host. Happens to be away, but we got an update from the ground directly from her, so you don't want to miss that. Angela, what will be talking about today, Well, we.
Are talking about missing our sister Tip, but also you all won't miss her because you'll hear from her. But I am really excited. We did a mini pod yesterday on Texas redistricting. Andrew, We're going to get into how this is in all the states and we might have missed a major key alert in North Carolina in twenty twenty four.
Well, along with those topics, we're going to be able to get into it with our first guest, Meddi Hassan, who some of you may know from a viral video going around, and ju believe where he debated a room full of well, I'll let him describe what the room was full of coming up next to you here from the man himself, Meddi. But before we do that, we
want to remind you if you like this show. In fact, if you love this show or if you like it, we want you to go ahead and please rate and review, share this episode or whatever your favorite episode may be, with your friend's family, loved ones, frenemies, et cetera, et cetera.
And if you don't like it, jump in the lake. That's what he was trying to say. Also, you know the other thing, Andrew, we should tell people right now is we have a survey right now. Black people like free stuff. I think there's some other people in the world that like free stuff too, So if you do, you might want to fill out this survey. We launched it this past Monday, and folks are already chiming in.
We got a little fifty dollars gift card for you, and also a signed poster of us because somebody wants that. Somebody may want it, Andrew, but I don't need a sign.
Anytime, but there may be some out there who might appreciate it. Maybe your three year old child's loves our faces.
And Davis Davis is absolutely in the building, by the way, along with gall I am managing them from upstairs.
We don't detain my nephews and my niece.
Please listen well to the audience, y'all stay tuned, because we've got some very great, great, great, great great show. On the other side of this, we've got Neddie Hassan who is repping real hard that shirt today, representing the network that he has found then and is now in charge of Zito. Now he's teased Angela and I that this merch that you're looking at, it is priced in pounds and so you want to compare the.
Diction about it if you're in the UK. Thanks guys for having me, and thanks for the plug. But it isn't dollars the tail dot com shop dot detail dot com. I'm a shameless small businessman.
Now we should be jos, but I have to I have to do this. I did tell him before we got on, y'all that it's more expensive because we say merch. Maddie, what do you say.
I say, merch much that's much more priceing.
I've been in ten years. I've been a citizen for five years. I'm proud to still keep my accent speaking.
Of you being a citizen. We sorry you tearing it up on Jubilee, and we actually want to go right to that clip. Let's watch.
Do you believe the wages? I'm just wondering how naive you are. You believe that the one percent will.
Raise wages in the federal wage They will be forced to when you increase labour's relationship to capital. Okay, and you give labor more bargaining power because you're understanding economics.
Because you explain I'm wrong, I'm telling you how you're wrong, because you're ignoring the fact that when immigrants come into an area, they spend money, they create jobs, they spend that's a good thing. Also, because you don't like us a foreign aid, so this is the point they created into this country. So far, everyone of my assumptions about you as being correct, But listen to me. I am an immigrant. I'm speaking for us experience. I don't even like I should get the hell out.
Yes, why I don't watch here?
Why because you come here and say all this bullshit about how Americans are lazy, You push your left Americans.
Oh my lord, how do you mentallysty How do you mentally prepare for that room? I mean I was, I was frustrated off jump, but I stuck in there, you know, giving my moral support to you. But how do you mentally prepare yourself for such ignorance on such a scale where everywhere you turn, literally you're confronted by the same level, if not a greater level of ignorance.
I mean, the show is called Surrounded, and you are literally surrounded by twenty of them, and actually the worst ones. As I discovered in hindsight, the most openly white supremacist of the bunge were actually behind me, so I didn't see them for a lot of the taping. So when I watched it back on YouTube, you can see them kind of pouting and preening and making faces and gestures. They were actually behind me, so I missed a lot of their facial expressions as I was winding them up.
How do you prepare for that? A lot of people have told me that they haven't been able to watch all our forty minutes. They watch it in like portions because he gets their blood pressure up. And I was like, how do you think I felt I was sitting there for the whole time. We got one toilet break in the middle, in which I was able to go, what the fuck is happening here? Yeah, and then go back into the lion's den. It was this very strange experience.
I knew it was going to be weird, it was going to be different to anything I'd done, But it's like nothing I've ever done in my life, personally or professionally. To be in that room, in that studio in LA with twenty of them, and one after another, they're each crazier than the next. And I've talked about jubilee. It's been out now for a couple of weeks. But what's interesting is you guys are the first people I'm talking to you since I saw the latest jubilee a couple
of days back. Chenk Wiger of the Young Turks, he just did a jubilee that just came out a couple of days ago on one populist versus twenty Republicans and Democrats. And I noticed again that he has some normal people in there. And people keep asking you, why did you go sit down with fascists? I didn't know that it all be fascist. I knew there'd be a couple of crazies. Sam Cedar from Majority reported earlier this year, good friend of mine, he said you should do it, and I
did it, and he had a couple of nutjobs. But some normal people. I seem to be the only person who wanted Jubilee, and they were all that jobs.
They were all there.
Yeah, you know, I watched it and I was thinking, you know, oh, they weren't ready for that DEI and for d by d Y, I mean DA's education and intelligence, like they were not ready for all of what you brought to them. But Meddi, the thing that I am concerned about is what I heard you say after And I think many of us are roaming this country right now with some of that same anxiety. Talk about how you felt when you left that set.
Not safe, deeply depressed, shocked. I and a producer at a security guard got the hell out of Dodge people saying, oh, did you chat to them afterwards?
Oh?
Of course I didn't chat to them afterwards. There was one guy as he was leaving, one of them lean over. They were leaving the set, and then I left separate door and he leant over and he whispered I wouldn't deport you, and I was like, thanks, okay, that's that's very charitable of you. No, I got a hell out of there. And in fact, this was taped the same day that Trump bombed Durran, so I didn't have time to collect my thoughts. I had a producer telling me,
while you've been taping this, Trump as bombed Duran. So we just kind of spent Saturday night covering that. So I really it was later on when I went out to dinner with some family and friends in La where I was just telling them what happened, that it really was hitting me. These people were insane. What did I
just go through? And now I've watched it back a couple of times, and the point I have to make, and this is going to sound I don't I don't really care if it sounds slow flaky, but it's kind of as a journalist and a debate, and Andrew, You're very kind about you know what I brought to the debate. I enjoy doing debates. I don't have many skills in life. I'm pretty good at arguing.
I made it that I have.
Very few skills in life, so I'm happy to brag about the one that I clearly do have. And it doesn't always work in my favor, I ask my wife, But I enjoy doing it. And I agreed to do the debate because I believe in debates, and I've written a book about debating and all of that, and that's great. And I watch it back and say, hey, there's a viral clip of me owning some guy. Great, but put that all to one side. Take off the journalist hat, the debater, hat I am a brown Muslim immigrant in
the United States. Nobody should have to sit through an hour forty minutes of twenty people seventeen I think of them white saying get out of our country. You're not a real American, you can't be an American, you hate our country. Were fascists, et cetera, et cetera. That is that is I want to say unacceptable, but it's not unacceptable. Clearly it is acceptable in America today. And why I still think there is value to having done it. And I'm on the fence of, you know, the good and
bad of having done it. The one clear benefit of doing it is it's kind of it's really is eyes wide open moment for a lot of liberals a lot of white liberals who've been in denial. I spent much of twenty twenty four people telling me, Oh, it won't.
Be that bad.
Oh, the Trump people aren't that bad. Angelie. You and I have had these discussions before. In the past, Tiffany and I have had many discussions on this, like the whole number twenty sixteen. Is it economic anxiety or is it racial resentment? It's like, go watch Jubilee. It's racial resentment about the economy. They don't give a shit about the constitution, they don't give a shit about democracy. All they wanted to talk about was immigration and race. That's all.
They didn't care about anything else I brought to the party. That was it. And you know, for me, that's the kind of case closed.
Really, you know, I want to I wonder how much of you thinks that this was the rights sentiment on steroids versus like, this is what you will encounter when you encounter Donald Trump voters in today's day and age.
I mean, look, I'm not going to say all Donald Trump voters are like the people in that room. Clearly not. I have people in my family who Donald Trump voters. Unfortunately, but the wait.
A minute, we can't blow pass that one issue, but you know.
I want one angelo, one in three, one in four Muslims, whether it depending on which polls you believe, voted for Donald Trump. It's very scary. There are people in the Muslim community who I know well, who are good people, and they'll be like, oh, yeah, vote of Trump. What that's just like just I know there's a smaller proportion of the black community, but in the Muslim brown not the Black Muslim community, in the Brown Muslim community, the
Pakistani Indian community and Arab American community. In a place like Dearborn, Michigan, a lot of people, unfortunately bought the bullshit about Trump being anti war and Trump being better for the economy and voted for Trump. So I'm not of the position every Trump voter is a racist. I am of the position that every Trump voter is fine with his racism. But the people in that room, I
think what's scary. Andrew answer your question is they A lot of them turned out to be kind of influencers online. They weren't just ordinary folks. They have like a wrap online, and I think that makes it in one sense, it makes it better. Okay, They're not just random twenty people picked up his story. On the other hand, these is scarier because these people exist online. They're doing very well online. They've got big followings. I'm sure Jubilee will have helped
them grow their followings. They are winning arguments online with certain subsections of population who are going down these rabbit holes and getting red pilled. So in that sense, like the way in which white supremacy and white supremacist propaganda is so organized and so mainstream, that is very work. Like the stuff those people said to me in that room. Americans have been saying for decades you both know better than me, but they didn't say it so proudly and
loudly in front of a camera. That was what was And by the way, one guy claims to have got fired, which I think is false, the guy who said he was a fascist since that taping. But my question is, so the rest of them, their employers are fired.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, sire, all of them.
So here's here's the next thing. And and and to get out of the trauma of the Jubilee experience, which is also very oxymoronic. But you have founded this company, Zteo and I and I want to just stay here for a moment, because there's a prophet who also is a hip hop artist, Lauren Hill, who said, you may
win some, but you just lost one. And so I'm wondering now, as a mainstream network that shall not be named looks as you are rapid rise and the way in which this company has filled a void that we clearly had when you set out to found this company, medi what was behind it? What were the gaps that you were seeking to feel?
So end of twenty twenty four, end of twenty twenty three, excuse me, MSNBC told me they were canceling my shows. They said, you can stay on as a guest host and a political pundit analyst. I said no thanks. It was very clear to me that twenty twenty four would be one of the most important news years of our life, with a presidential election and ongoing genocide in Gaza. I didn't want to be sitting on the bench. I needed to have my voice out there. So I remember talking
to my wife about this. On the day that I got the news that I'm not staying. I got to leave. Then it was an issue of getting out of my contract to be fed at MSNBC. It was all very pleasant and easy, and by January I was announcing on air on my last show that I'm leaving formerly a zeteo in April. It was pretty fast for me, there was it was a no brainer that only was I going to leave MSNBC, but I wasn't going to go to another network, another newspaper, another media outlet. Because I
kind of done that, got the T shirt. And you know, I'm now forty six years old. I've worked in the media for twenty five years. I've worked in the UK, I've worked in the US. I've worked for Sky News, the BBC, Al Jazeera internationally, you know, obviously NBC in the US, and I was kind of like, now it's time to do my own thing. If not now, when And in terms of the if not me, who to
get ego maniacal? I did look at the independent media marketplace and say, hold on, Tucker Coulson Network, he's doing really well. Sadly, Daily Wire is now this multi billion dollar behemoth. You know, Barry Weiss and the Free Press. What are they all have in common? How can it's all right wingers dominating our independent media space, the subscription space. Yes, Chenk and the young Turks have been you know around credit to them, blessed them on YouTube for two decades
and Sam Cedar and others. But like in the subscript scription independent space, in the sub stacks of this world, how come the progressives are not that well represented? How come no one's trying to do this? Why don't I have a go? So for me, that was the driving force. And clearly I'm not you know, I'm not a natural businessman. Friends of mine's like, you can't run a bath, how are you going to run a company? But one thing
I did identify was a gap in the market. Clearly there was a gap because the response has been so overwhelmingly positive. Touch lots of Wood. We're over a million subscribers on YouTube right now, less than a year and a half in, We're half a million subscribers on substack. We've won a Webby for our podcast. People are coming to us internationally and domestically because I think they are
fed up with mainstream media. They are fed up with cable, they are fed up with the kind of inability to cover the rise of fascism at home and the genocide abroad. And that gap has been there, and you know, making a commercial success I'm very proud of. I want to build something where even if I said this the other day in an interview, I said, if I'm run over by a bus and then my mother rang me into never used that phrase again. Don't talk about your death.
So even if I were to retire and go quietly into the night, the company would survive. I'm trying to build something beyond me. I'm not trying to build the mere the huss On network, which is why we've got great people from around the world as contributors. We've got Credit Tunberg and Naomi Klein and Bars some USAF and Owen Jones. We got really good people, and that's what we're trying to build. We need to build, like you
guys with the podcast. We're trying to build in these spaces where the right have occupied these spaces and own these spaces for so long, which is why you get a kind of Jubilee crowd because that's where they're dominant online.
That's incredible. Well, I just want to a countray dig one thing, which is just because you saw avoid and sort to fit in that space didn't mean you'd be a rocket success. Your rocket success because your brilliance is on Ford.
This very much.
I appreciate when we hear you it is usually backed up and substantiated by what we know to be facts. Now turn to what we're all living through, which is a complete disassociation with what facts are. Everybody's got their own and none of it connects to anything. We're in the throes of what may be an arms race, if you will, around redistricting, where we've got these you know, big states, bohemit of states, including the one that I
live in, no threatening to do half disential. You know five point you know, five years point census redrawing of districts to basically rig the game so that Republicans have a better shot at maintaining control come this midterm election. And I'm just curious, based off of your assessment of the field, the field of states that are at play here and where, and which states are helmed by which governors, how much do you think Democrats are prepared for this
arms race and are they really willing? And what I mean by that is this potential of meeting Texas where they're at, which is to say, if you redraw at this midpoint, we're going to redraw at this midpoint and We're going to just fight it out until uh one party has the greatest advantage. Where do you size this up and where do you think it's going.
I think you're right to use the phrase Andrew Alms race, because it is about trying to get yourself an advantage with political weapons. I mean, this is what's so wrong with jerry mandering. Let's just make clear, in a perfect world, you wouldn't have jerry mandry. Actually it's not even a perfect world. In a normal country, you wouldn't have jerry mandrew because every other normal Western democracy does not have jerry Manderin Canada, Britain, France, Germany, jerry mandering does not exist.
They have independent election commissions. Politicians don't get to pick their voters. Voters get to pick their politicians. In the United States, we have jerry mandreing on steroids now and thanks to the Supreme Court. And yeah, I'm glad that we have some democratic governors now willing to at least
talk the talk. Let's see if they do it. But Gavin Newsom in California, Pritzker in Illinois, and even Hockel, who I'm not a fan of in New York came out this week, saying, you know, I'm not with one hand behind my back. Maybe that's the Mamdani effect there, I say, but I'm not going to fight with one hand behind my back. She said, Let's see if they actually do it. The problem we have, Andrew, of course, is that a lot of Democratic run states have already
done the right thing and did independent registricts. So in Michigan, for example, they had a referendum, they won the referendum, they brought in independent So even if Gretchen Whitmer wanted to match Greg Abbotts cynicism and rigging, she can't. So there is a limit to what democratic states can do. I believe I'm not an expert on this, that Newsome can redistrict in California despite them having an independent body because the independent body would kick it in twenty thirty
or some such technicality. But look, one hundred percent, they have to fight fire with fire. It's the only it's the only language that Republicans understand. I interviewed James Tallarico this week, the Texas state rep who's out in now in Illinois, part of the fled contingent, and he made the point as well. He said look, you've got to do it. It's got to be done otherwise they have no no block on their behavior. I just saw a Republican state lawmaker from Texas, I can't remember his name.
I stow them on CNN early this morning with Brianna Kayla just bluntly. I've not seen them say it's sober three things.
He just said.
She said, why are you doing and he said, because we can, Yes, and you know you can? Yeah, And she goes, but should you and he goes, yes, it
is good for our party. I was like, Wow, the only good thing about MAGA Republicans is they do say the quiet part out loud all the time, and that is somewhat beneficial when you're at least in terms of getting your own side to wake up to the threat because we've had far too many bipolgisanship obsessed Democrats for far too long, and that's why we're in this situation.
That's right, That's I think that's such a fair point. I do think that it's important as we talk about grounding in this moment. One thing that you don't shy away from mehdie is criticizing Donald Trump. But there's one place where we see folks culpable on both sides of the aisle, and I think that is really what is the reason why you met your demise at MSNBC, the critique around the genocidey Gaza.
Sorry, I just want to say rebirth, renaming demise.
Oh I'm like, I'm like, I'm just like, what happened?
If can?
I almost check in my mic to see it because I'm mute. Sorry. So one of the reasons why the relationship with the network ended is because of your unashamed, unabashed critique of this country and its role and culpability and what's happening in God, can you talk about what
people need to know just as human beings. When you sink into morality, you move politics aside, you move partisans partisanship aside, and you focus on the people, the innocent people who are being impacted with what's happening in that country. Talk about what folks really need to know at home.
Good Angela.
Yeah, it's a great question. And one thing that's upset me quite a bit and disappointed me is that since January the twentieth, suddenly lots of ordinary democrats and liberals and people I follow online have suddenly woken up to the genocide in Gaza. And so this is really bad because Donald Trump's president. Oh look at the bat, and Trump is doing some horrific things in the Middle East.
You know, they'll point to Trump saying ethnic cleansing, They'll point to Trump signing off on two thousand pound bombs. They'll point to Trump, you know, using Palestinian as a slut, all horrific things, things that I oppose and warned about last year when people were trying to give Trump a pass on foreign policy. But what upsets me is there's no real reckoning with what Biden oversaw, with what Harris refused to disown, with what Schumer and Jeffrey signed off on.
And I think that reckoning has to happen the inability. Every time you hear a Democratic Party post mortem, they refuse to mention Gaza. It's kind of the elephant in the room where they don't talk about how much it custom votes in places like Michigan and Pennsylvania. They don't talk about how much it damaged their credibility as a party that claims to care about democracy, human rights, to quality. So I think that reckoning has to be had. I
saw KARRMLA. Harris recently advertise her new upcoming memoir and she said, I'm going to be very candid. All right, I'll wait and see. If there's not a chapter on Gaza, then it won't be a very candid memoir. Because she went on multiple TV shows and was asked, are you going to break with Biden on anything? And she didn't say Gaza. She didn't say anything, to be honest, She went on the view and said nothing. Huge strategic error.
And I actually know for a fact because I know people who were in the White House in the campaign who all know the privately Harris was better than Biden on Gaza, but publicly she wasn't. She didn't ever actually message that she would be different. And I think Democrats have to own the hundreds of thousands of children and women and men who were injured and the at least thirty to forty thousand people minimum who were killed on Joe Biden before Donald Trump even stepped foot into office,
the number of deaths in Gaza. Even before Donald Trump became president, Gaza was the worst place in the world to be a child, the worst place in the world to be an aid worker, the worst place in the world to be a journalist, right, That was all before Trump became president. We have to be able to have a reckoning about that. We can argue about Wood, Biden or Harris had been better than Trump, who cares at
this point. The point is right now, as you say, Angela, it was a bipartisan both sides policy to back the Netanyahu government as he carried out the worst war crimes of our time. We are seeing children being shot in the testicles, according to Dr Nick Maynard, the UK doctor, in a pattern he says as really sold as a using civilians and children just for sport, just for target practice. We are paying for that. And I'm so thought up with people coming out and say, oh, how come I'm
not hearing protests about Sudan. Actually we've covered Sudan on our show, but people cynically going Sudan or some other part of the world, and it's like, well, we're not funding the militaries in those places doing the killing. My and your tax dollars helping to kill children and make Gaza's kids the most amputated cohort of children in modern world history. We paid for that. So yes, we're going to be pissed off about that forever.
I don't know if you saw, but and I'm going to yield to you.
Andrew, I.
Just was nodding so hard my headphones a little ya fell off, So I'm.
A sort Well.
We warned y'all that you were going to hear a truth teller on this side of the conversation, and many you you don't disappoint in telling the truth. And I just wonder, as we we we apart from each other, we're the bright spot. What if there is a bright spot people can be left with on our side? Where are you seeing it and sensing it right now? And then where can people find you?
The bright spot has always been the same place, even at the height of the Gaza killings last year, the same answer, which is young people, which is students, which is activists, which is organizers. You look at the generational divide in American politics, it is massive. It's not just
on Gaza, but on multiple issues. The kids are all right, as they say, and that's why the Trump administration is cracking down on campus is one very simple reason, because they know that the biggest threat is from the youth vote. You look at Mamdani and how he won that New York Democratic mayoral primary. Huge surge in young people turning out to vote who had never voted before. So that's what keeps me hopeful, is that the young folks have got their heads in the right place. And as for me,
where you can find me detail dot com. We z e t e o dot com. That's where we are become a subscriber to support independent journalism because mainstream media is part of the reason we are in the ship show.
We're in again. Absolutely, I love it. Well, we just want to thank you, I'll say, on my part, in on Tiffany's part, who misses you?
Mistif bose of us have been reborn.
Yeah, that's it, be reborn to produce even greater and your mission and work is is greater. But we want to thank you for taking some time we got to come back it up with us. Yes, indeed, thank you both.
Thanks for having me.
Best wishes, so appreciate it. So everybody you know that our girl didn't get to see her favorite guy, Mehdi Hassan join us for that incredible interviewing conversation. He is a brilliant debater and also, as Andrew said, a brilliant true tailor, our good friend and sister is in the continent and she has a very special message from the ground that she wants to share with all of us. Let's take a look.
Welcome home, Native lamb Bam. Of course it's here, our co host, Tiffany Cross. I'm so sorry I'm missing this week's show, but I am actually here in the Democratic Republic of Congo. I am in the capital of Conshaza. You can see behind me, just over my shoulder, just across that river is Brazaville, and I am here on ground learning about the conflict that's happening here because of cobalt, which is a mineral here that powers our cell phones, very thing i'm filming on and millions of people have
lost their lives because rebel fighting in the east. I am, of course in the west at the capital in Gonsaza, but a lot of fighting in the east that could very easily find its way to the west has claimed the lives of so many people here. And this really should be one of the wealthiest countries on the continent, given the amount of minerals that they have here.
Unfortunately, the people of.
The Democratic Republic of Congo have not benefit at all from the billions and billions of dollars of minerals here. I was here for an event called Genocas and they show video where the rebels would show up and kill people on site, and children as young as two and three years old would just be walking around aimlessly in their communities where they lived. After coming back and finding their entire families slaughtered.
Women have been raped here. The rebels use rape as a weapon of war.
After raping the women, they have inserted weapons in their vaginal area, anything from knives to stones.
The intention is to destroy.
Now, while this is completely inhumane and reprehensible, I would like to when I come back, share on Native Land how these cell phones are, computers, batteries, so many things that we use mindlessly and effortlessly contribute to this conflict here now. Earlier this year, Donald Trump signs an agreement and he somewhat did the country as solid by securing the border between the country of the Congo and Rwanda. I will break all that down on a later episode of Native Land Pod.
But I did want to let you know why I'm not there.
I had an opportunity to speak with the President and the first Lady of the Congo here and it's as you can see, it is a country that has so much potential. There is also beauty in this country, and it never astonishes me how much war, how much barbarism, how much agony the people of the entire continent have suffered, mostly at the hands of European nations, and it does not take away from the beauty of the land nor
the beauty of the people. I've been to the homes of people who live here that are gorgeous, beautiful artwork, the vegetation here, So I don't want to present only one side of this beautiful country or one side of this beautiful continent. But it has been a very eye opening experience. It's one thing to read about the conflict. It's another thing completely to be on ground and understand.
It from a different perspective.
So hopefully I'll be able to say more on a future episode of Native Land Pod about the conflicts here the role we play in it as America being the largest consumer economy that benefits from the minerals here. So sorry to miss this week's episode, I will be back soon and welcome home y'all.
Well, that is our sister Tiffany Cross bringing us as a true journalist that she is bringing us her take from the Congo of where she is, and we look forward to welcoming her back home physically here and hearing what more lessons she may have to share with us.
You Know, what I really appreciate about what Tip shared Andrew is there's been so much conversation when Gaza is addressed, just like it was with Mehdi, and there are black folks who say, well, what about what's happening with in Rwanda the congo ers today and what we shouldn't be and what about it is and more are oppression Olympics. But what we also shouldn't do is turn a blind eye to what is happening in the motherland. So I'm
very very grateful for what Tiff is saying. She's you know, questioning and checking and hearing about firsthand, and I just hope that we will all be accountable to continue to do that same work ourselves.
That's real, especially where it's Western habits and Western you know, desires that are fueling so so much of what's happening to devastating degree outside of our outside of American US borders. But we thank her for that what's.
The matter with Texas and Missouri and Louisiana and a lot more. We're going to get to all of that right after this breaking.
Greetings, Native Pod. My name is Keith. I'm from DC, and recently you will talk me about the redistricting of Texas. Well, here's my idea I brought this before, is that we redistrict the whole nation, which means we would revise the electoral college to increase the representation of representatives in the House of Representative. Right now, we're severely underrepresentative. My idea is that we would take the population of the smallest state Union, which is Wiring right now, that has five
hundred and eighty thousand people. We would divide each state by the size of Wyoming and make increase the representation in each one of those states. For example, the representation in California would increase from fifty five to sixty seven point one. And he asked us, what do we do that point one? Well, we will have a chief electorial and that chief electoral will have a voting power of one point one and that he as far as the national electin of president, you only have a power of one. Again,
that is my idea is to increase, revise it. We can squash all this redistricting all over the state. We can just do a ratification of Electoria College. Get it done. Thanks, that's my recommendation. Thanks for having me.
All right, so we got a recommendation there on how we might make the the electoral college map look a little bit more for fair Angela. And just before you, before we take your response, I just wanted for the viewers to help us understand where we sit today, which is, yes, Wyoming is the lowest populated state in the Union. They have two US Senate seats, as every state in the Union has two seats, and they've got one Congressional seat. And the question was right, mister Keith, they said, at
about you know, about what half No. On average, each member of Congress represents about seven hundred and sixty one thousand people. Wyoming sits under that at about five hundred and fifty plus thousand folks living in that state. However,
the constitution limits, actually it's law that limit. Since nineteen eleven, I believe the practice has been that the Congress will be capped at four hundred and thirty five members, and that the minimum a number of people required to constitute a seat will basically be divided based off that five hundred and thirty five members amongst the various states, with again Wyoming, that not being applicable because Wyoming will maintain one seat unless it increases beyond that average number seven
hundred and sixty plus population, but they will maintain one seat right now. The problem with the recommendation is that we would have to grow the House of Representative pretty substantially if we began dividing the US population basically by five hundred and fifty thousand people per every seat in Congress. The number of seats are capped four thirty five, and then obviously the US Senate has capped at two members per state. So I don't know, do you have a
reaction to that idea. I just wanted to set the plate so that folks, you know, sort of had a sense of how we got or where we are.
Well.
I think that you've done a great job of answering Keith's question or responding to Keith's ideas. Keith always has big ideas for those of you at home listening, because you are welcome home. We always welcome your big ideas, no matter how crazy, large, miraculous they sound, or basic, and we should abandoned that we here for So please make sure you continue to send in your questions, thoughts and ideas, and your challenge is to the host, especially
when you say Angela, miss Cross. I was gonna say, Andrew, you know what is fascinating about this redistricting conversation to me is that it's not new we have seen. It's not just Texas. Of course, recently in Missouri, the governor said that he's interested in redrawing the lines where the first black member of Congress in Missouri sits in Kansas City, rather not in all of Missouri, but in Kansas City. Who's a former mayor of Kansas City, My former boss,
the former CBC chair, Congressman Emmanuel Cleeved. The second they're talking about redrawing the line so that he would not be in a district that represents Kansas City anymore. We're hearing these same things about Louisiana. As you know, there was an open court case Calais Kaye in Louisiana that would have would challenge again the seat that Cleo Fields now operates or occupies in in the Baton Rouge area. What I think that we have to wrestle with here
is why. And the thing that is most troubling to me, as you all know NLP listeners, I had Jelanda jones On, who's a state repon Texas representing the Houston area, yesterday this week, Yes, sorry this week in case you didn't hear it, we record on Wednesdays. I'm sorry, y'all, Andrew, I have ad D bad today and now when you
do that, I can't remember what I'm saying. Jones at Jelanda jones On yesterday, and she is one of the members of the Texas delegation that has fled the state to prevent Governor Abbott from getting this very unconstitutional, hyper racist redistricting and Jerry Vander process done in and off year. As a reminder, y'all, as Andrew just said, it is
twenty twenty five. This happens in twenty twenty. Generally, by the time we get to about twenty twenty two, by the time we get to a midterm election, this has been asked, answered and resolved, even if we don't like the outcome. So what has happened is there was an off year test and Julanda brought this up on the podcast on Tuesday. There's been off your test. That off your test didn't start with Texas. The off year test
started with North Carolina. And Andrew might be ready to fight because you might say, well, they really tested it out in Florida first, but at least in Florida it was attached to the twenty twenty census. This in North Carolina last year was just randomly. In twenty twenty three, Republican leaders decided that they wanted to redraw maps to see what would happen and to restrict the number of
black elected officials in North Carolina. So now that case is going to a three panel court close to Winston Salem to determine whether or not it's constitutional or unconstitutional. Here's the bottom line. We're watching Texas legislators flee. But what we're really watching, Andrew, I think for people who don't understand redistricting, what is that? Jerry mandering? What is that? Why should we care? All people right now are watching is like they are on the run, and we here
for the fight. My favorite thing about this is you brought up earlier. Your memory is so good. You brought up earlier. What happened when Texas legislators. Texas state legislators did this in twenty twenty one, and you said, that is how Jasmine Crockett met her rise to fame.
Yeah, so let us see how a lot of us came to nowhere.
And here, let's watch that clip.
We have not committed a crime, and so under the US Constitution and the Texas constitution, you can't arrest people that haven't committed a crime. So we've not committed a crime. What can happen is we can be detained, so we can have someone come and get us. But that's so long as they have jurisdiction. And I know that the governor may believe that he's president now, but he's not and hopefully will never be the president of these United States.
But he does not have jurisdiction over all United States. He has jurisdiction over Texas. And so it's actually our sergeants in the House that it says in the rules that they.
Can actually go after us.
The law is still unclear as to whether or not the speed maker can then go ahead and say, hey, we're going to deputize these DPS officers, and these officers can go after them, but even still, their jurisdiction would not extend outside the state of Texas.
This is such an important point, uh, Angela, that you bring up, because we're hearing a lot of conversation right now, a lot of bluster blunder out of the governor of Texas saying they're creating you know, he has he has now said or issued a writ to go and bring these members back to Texas to arrest them, warrants, warrants, issue warrants for them on a civil civil laws site.
Uh citation if you will, so Jasmine Congressman Crockett, who we many of us got introduced to through means like Don Lemon through her interviews that she did the last time Texas tried to try some corrupt stuff, and we're her comment, as les I listened, is just as apropos today as it was, you know, back in twenty twenty one about the jurisdiction of the governor to come after them and to arrest them. But your point was, people are saying that they're fleeing the battle, fleeing the fight.
Talk about how they're fleeing is not running from the fight, but in fact bringing the fight directly to the jaw of the governor and to the Republican that legislature.
Well, you know what I love about the strategy is one we keep saying in this moment, we don't have to go and create new tactics. Andrew, I love what you've done also on your solo pods where you train people how to organize, and this is one of those tactics. The Texas State Legislature has been engaging in fleeing as a strategy since eighteen seventy. It is not new. We say, there's nothing new under the sun. We can fight with old tactics and just update how we use those old
tactics and tools. They are doing that right now. And what Jasmine is saying is like, look, he can issue a warrant. You don't have any jurisdiction outside of the state. And I think that's so important for people to realize.
I also think there's something that gets in the psyche of a democratic governor right that may have lacked the courage, the political courage, the political will to engage in this type of fight, But now they may have a little sauce because the Texas Dems who are fleeing and walking and embodying courage. They got to be like, well, I can't just let y'all hang out there by yourselves, so let me meet you where you are. One of those governors who surprised me, and we heard this from Mehdi earlier,
is Governor Hochal in New York. Let's roar what she said recently.
I have newsflash for Republicans in Texas. This is no longer the wild West. We're not going to tolerate our democracy being stole in a modern day stage called choice hoist by a bunch of lawbreaking cowboys. Americans don't want a system that's stacked against them.
They've believed in fairness. It's fundamental. I'll tell you this.
They're done with the chaos, they're done with the cruelty, and I would say they're ready to vote Republicans out of power in Washington, certainly in the upcoming twenty twenty six elections.
Republicans know this. They've seen the polls.
They know they're sliding downhill because Americans are rejecting their policies.
So this is why they're fighting.
They want to They know they'll lose the elections, but to subvert the will of the people. They're hell bent on rigging the system. Rigging the system is un American. All's fair in love and war. That's why I'm exploring with our leaders every option to redraw our state congressional lines as soon as possible. Our state legislatives' leaders Carol hoastein with Joy Leader on to rest their cousins. They're
on board, as are their members. We're already working on a legislative process, reviewing our legal strategies, and we'll do everything our power to stop this brazen assault.
Andrew Angela, I tell us, so, why for you? Was that a surprise?
And I'll say my piece, cause she.
Say all kind of crazy stuff all the time. I'll be mad at how most of the time. So I just was like, oh, okay, that's what we're doing. We gotta fight. And I love this speaker was right next to her. The thing that I appreciate about this moment. We keep saying that people want to see a fight. We keep hearing that too, right, But part of the fight isn't just this resistance tactic. People want to see an alternative. That alternative is the vision of the opposition.
What you get to see from her comments is what the vision of the opposition is, so the resistance was brought to you by the Texas state legislators, right, the Democratic legislators who left the opposition strategy, and the vision is roped to you by those who can govern. And they'll say, if this is what the what the right wants to do, this is what those who are representing a political entity that will be the demise of our democracy. We are going to show you how we're going to
fight back against this democracy. Sure, ideally we'd love to have this bipartisan or nonpartisan commission that does this great thing, but in the absence of people who are willing to fight on an on an even and level playing field, we gonna meet them in the mud. And so they're saying, we're not going to let them imbalance the scales of justice. Wherever they create an imbalance, we're gonna right.
Say that's it.
And I think that's I think that is what a resolution and an alternative looks like. So resistance should not stand alone. Resistance should be met with resolution, and that is where governors, those who can govern, can meet folks in the middle. And I think that's what people want to see.
Yeah, and so and just so our listeners understand what the oven or and even we're referring to when we talk about this in balance and the changing of the rules, as it's already been established. These processes are changing congressional maps happen after the census, typically between the change and the census, and maybe two years out. Mostly by and large, litigation has been settled, and those maps are now the maps that are in place, with some very very large exceptions.
Those maps are established within time, and then new members of Congress are elected. In this case, the rigging comes in, y'all, and that Texas is saying, all right, we're five years in to this census, why don't we two advantage. In fact, they were instructed to do this. Let me be clear about this. They were instructed by Donald Trump to change their maps to produce five more congressional Republican congressional seats.
This is basically Donald Trump calling Raffinsburger in Georgia and saying, hey, you go ahead and find me one hundred, no, no, no, ninety eight whatever whatever, thousand votes so that we can win this race.
Right.
We all knew that was illegal. We all knew that that was a foul call. So he made that foul call again on this occasion to the governor of Texas.
Governor of Texas, Oh yeah, yeah, why don't we go ahead, and why don't we go ahead and do that. Let's let's find you five more seats. Okay, we'll find you the seats that you want. So that for the seats that we may lose coming up in the midterm elections, thereby putting Democrats in control of the House of Representatives, and if they stuck together, they could basically end at least the legislative agenda for Donald Trump for the remainder of his term in office.
So high stakes. But in this case, they are going about it by breaking the rules, but basically saying they haven't gotten any new, grand new numbers of population. They haven't had all these new folks moving to the state in this period of time. What they're gonna do is
they're gonna take seats that right now Democrats hold. They're gonna move huge sums of Democrats out of those districts that create democratic seats, put them in to strong Republican seats by breaking them up and basically creating a situation where they could not elect a Democrat. If their full breath and body were to go out and vote wholesale to elect Democrats, they couldn't do it anymore because those Democratic votes would now be broken up and spread out.
In some cases, in the case of Austin, Texas, they would be broken off into a district that spans three and a half hours drive away from their city center, where they may not have anything in common by interests of the folks who are three and a half hours away from them, but they would be split that hard so that they could never ever elect a Democrat to their seat in Congress. That's the complete subversion of the rules. They are cheating just so that they can maintain their advantage.
That's the illegal part of this, and the question that Angela is raising, well, the point that she's making is that there are democratic governors who right now sit in position where they could also force their states or take steps to force their states and to redrawn their seats and doing the same thing basically taking Republican seats right now, splitting those seats out by taking conservatives and diving them up amongst other seats, and creating the opportunity for only
Democrats to be elected there that hasn't been the take that we have, that's not been the step of the direction we've gone in the past. And there are probably some people out there. I think we may even have a clip of someone making this argument who were saying we shouldn't do that because we have been the good government people that have been pushing for you know, independent
redistrict and commissions that are nonpartisan. Well, that may be the ideal, but the question is is should we stick to that now or do we have to meet the knife fight with a knife and not a spoon, a.
Plastic spoon, a plastic ass well, maybe compostable. As soon as you try to pick some up the thing break off in their shout out to the compostables. Though I do love y'all. I was going to say, Andrew, you raise a great point. We should continue that part of the conversation in the mini pod, okay, because I think that we should analyze like you know, id ID a versus reality, like should you be in the ideals or should you be in the real And I have to
tell you this, this is very important. They're doing this on the sixtieth anniversary of the Voting Rights Act. This Voting Rights Act that has been virtually gutted again. We talked about this mostly on the Solo Pod Tuesday, but I have something else very important I need to tell you, and it's an apology, and I wish Tiff was here
for this. I got so chin checked this week talking to someone who is a hero to many of us, Shriylyn Eifel, who used to run the Legal Defense Fund now is a prestigious and amazing leader professor at Howard University leading the Fourteenth Amendment Center there. What we have to know is this. Cherylyn said that Donald Trump asked for Texas to find him five seats. He wanted those five seats so that he could have the Kung rational majority. She said that there absolutely will be an election in
twenty twenty six because he's going to search for this majority. Now, she says she didn't know about twenty eight, So I'm retracting my apology for twenty twenty eight, Andrew. But now I'm going to eagerly count down with you how many days we have left until the election. But I wanted to apologize to you because it's a perspective I hadn't considered when she said that he's going to hunt for seats, right, Like, if he's going to hunt for seats, of course states
can determine if they're going to have an election or not. Again, we don't know if it's going to be fair or not. But the point around, well, clearly it's not going to be fair if he can get these seats. But the point around he's going to hunt for the seats, which means he knows that he needs more power, is a fair one. In it was a perspective I hadn't considered, so I wanted to humble myself in front of the Native Lampod fam to say, sorry.
Hey, accept it and really proud of you guys. Well you did that, well, say normally I do.
I just wish I didn't say the thing to have to.
Well, you know, only only a few times as it happened in broad daylight.
So we think I'm messing with you.
I'm messing with you because I don't want to lose this strand. The reason why they would be hunting for votes is that they are going to need a Congress that is positioned to say whether or not they will count electoral votes at the next presidential election. Again, the president in the presidential election, the electoral College votes, they
must be accepted by the sitting US Congress. The sitting US Congress that gets elected in twenty twenty six will be the people who will be sitting in those seats come time to count the electoral votes that are produced from the elections in twenty twenty five, the presidential elections
of twenty twenty five. So if those if those members of Congress, those radical members of Congress who Trump is trying to get seated in this next congressional election, decide that they don't want to count the electoral votes it's not necessary, or they can't come to agreement on those electoral votes, does then the president get to extend his term?
Does the sitting president now extend their term because there are not there is not a Congress that's willing to account and certify the electoral College votes that gets us to the required amount needed for a new president to be seated. Yeah, well, that's what's at stake.
All of that is at stake. And as you can see, y'all, we have a lot more to talk about with this, So we're gonna go ahead and get right into that in our mini pod today on if we should be in what is ideal or what is real, and on the other side of repentance should always be calls to action. So we'll be right back with us shortly. Okay, Well, my call to action is if y'all see Tiff at the airport. Yeah, welcome home, y'all.
Yeah, Yes, I'd be a beautiful welcome back into the country.
Yes.
And for my CTA, I just want us to pay as much attention as we can and lift up in our own social media as much as we can. This redistricting fight, as Angelus said in her mini this week, as we try to emphasize here on this week's show, this is not a fight that is left to one state.
While it may be kicking off as far as you're concerned in the state of Texas, you already hear rumors in my state, the state of Florida, which is rarely mentioned in the national conversation about this, the governor is already putting out there, hey, I may be interested in calling a special session to redraw the maps here in Florida, And already they have been committed to erasing black representation and congressional seeks from the state of Florida but if
this race, if this arms race is to continue, it's possible that every Democrat and Republican state and governor who have the power to open back up this conversation, they may do so. And I think is going to be a race to the bottom for the country. But I have to say I'm in full favor of fighting fire with fire unless we lose the entire threat of our democracy. So pay attention, lift this argument up. It's not as nine,
it's not unrelated. It's extremely related to the future of where we had as a country.
That's my CITU Andrew. Since Tiff is in't here, can we have one more CTA? Yeah, you're going to give it go y'all take the survey. We got fifty dollars. You know how the looney said, I got five on it. We got fifty on it. That is ten times five on it. My mad ain't that good? But that's good enough.
And when has it? I know a co host is trying to, you know, raise that, so y'all, hey, get in this game right now.
You're trying to raise fifty dollars.
No I heard you were trying to raise the sum, increase the raise the sun, raise the Sun.
Well, now that I found out that people are active on the fifty, I think I'm gonna keep it.
We're gonna ride it out for a minute again.
Anyway, Welcome home, y'all. Andrew, do you want to tell him how many days tell the mid term since a parents.
Well, now that we on this spot here podcasts is almost in full agreement, we'll see what're teughing the tiffanysm' it comes back there already four hundred and fifty three days until the midterm elections, which we believe are going to occur. For no other reason, this is just another route for this president to maintain permanent power. As always, we want you and everyone to leave us a review and subscribe to Native Lampid. We're available on all podcasts
platforms as well as you two. And if you're looking for more shows like ours, well check out a few other shows on Recent Choice Media. They are Spoloitics with Jamil Hill, We Love You, Jamil Off, the Cup Cupp with se Cup, and our newest edition, our friend le Man Demand, Noah Debrasso, who you've heard on this show, and others who also has his show. Now you know, all right, follow us don't forget on social media. Subscribe
text email to our Native lampid email list. You can get there by Native lampid dot com of course, and subscribe. We are your host, Angela Rye fifteen Cross and Appsania and I'm Andrew give them Welcome home, Moran.
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