Native Lampod is a production of Ireheart Radio in partnership with reisent Choice Media. Welcome home, y'all's Native Lampod Episode one, O six and we are your co host. I'm Tiffany Cross here with Angela Rai, Andrew Gillham and Bacari Sellery's last on purpose.
No, no, this uh, it's been a bit week, so I want to get right into it.
What are we talking about today?
Now?
I'm going first, since y'all like to call me out. I'm gonna I believe in myself and I'm gonna use my voice. I'm reclaiming my time, all right, MAXI No, I want to talk about these Epstein files because it's something interesting going on as we have this discussion, because Republicans are conflating Democrats who are fundraising and Democrats who are communicating with their constituents and the words of Representative Plasquet and the individuals who are converting with him on
Epstein Island and had untoward. Did I pronounce that right? Andrew?
Yeah, you got it, and you know you got two seconds?
Yeah no, And those who were those last.
Rich rich coming from me?
Yeah no, and exactly, thank you, and those individuals who were doing that on those untoward or participating in that in that untoward behavior with Jeffrey Epstein, they're not that.
I don't want to know what impact is going to have this Epstein stuff on the Margarine.
So what'd you got? Angela?
I'm excited to talk to the Massachusetts Attorney General today, Andrea Campbell, who will join us to talk about all things we know that Snap was certainly up for grabs in that war. Snap battle is just getting started along with DEI and all of the many accomplishments he has, including suing Donald Trump several times, with lots of other things.
With that, Andrew, what you got?
You know, it's hard to choose, but I think I'm going to camp out in the area of I actually don't.
Know what was he go stay tuned for into surprise topic. We got a lot of newer questions to get to.
That's why he likes That's why he liked to go first a second because it.
Is still the first.
It's like, I don't watch.
They don't know nothing about that to be continued when you have to wait a whole week, so to be continued to see what Andrew.
Wants to talk about Well, we've been a lot of newer questions, so we're going to get to those.
Something I want to get into is a new law popping up in a lot of Red states to allow pregnant women the ability to park in handicapped spaces, which sounds like may not be a bad thing, right, I'm going.
To say why I got a problem with that.
So we're going to get into that and more tif Tiff. It's come to me and it is a serious topic. So I regret that I didn't recall it initially. But we're going to talk about this Trump administration again. This Justice Department, the arm of the of the Trump White House, who is seeking to have the killer of Breonna Taylor, one of the killers who was found guilty. I believe after the third trial, their effort to roll back his sentence more on that than the Trump.
All right, just get into all of that on this episode of Native Land. Let's jump right into it right now. Okay, So Becry, since you went first, we'll go with your topic first. I definitely want to get into the whole Trump Epstein files, because it was a lot happening this week on Capitol Hill, the House and the Senate voted almost unanimously. There was one vote, I believe in the House, Angela, is that correct. Yeah, in the House, one person voted against releasing the files.
But there is a vote. We will see.
At the time of this recording, we don't know Donald Trump has signed this bill into law to release the file, so we'll see. But I'm sorry I did it again, Bakari.
He got more head.
I got a good head that.
Was making his wife fuzzy because his WiFi fuzzy. Again. I thought it'd be better when he finally went.
Home find it could be clear.
I still don't mind calling it out because it's fuzzy.
I was talking about the challenge with the how how people are perceiving this. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I want to let you leave the discussion because I I don't think this is going to matter at all, But I want you to lay it out first.
Oh no, no, no, no, no no no. So I think that this is the only thing that separates MAGA from Trump. I think that you're seeing the far right because Trump is the first person. Let's set the historical context. Trump in twenty fifteen was the first person to put Epstein files on the radar when he was running against Hillary Clinton, when Hillary Clinton was the front runner for the Democratic nominee, when he wanted to lump Bill Clinton in with Jeffrey
Epps and everyone else. He made this the issue d jure and they built so many conspiracy theories just off pedophilia in the left. I don't know if you recall, but allegedly Democrats were molesting children and some pizzeria in Washington in Washington, DC, right, and so this was the
underbellion undercurrent for a lot of MAGA. Even earlier this year, you had GOP influencers coming out of the White House with trapper keepers talking about we got the first set of the Epstein files, and low and behold they had nothing. Or you had Pam Bondi who said I had the Epstein files on my desk and lo and behold she had nothing. And so maybe, well maybe I believe that the I believe that this is a it's a through
line here. And the first thing is I believe that this is the only thing that the far right or MAGA base turns against Donald Trump on. Now how long standing that is, I'm not sure, but you're already seeing that fracturing with people like Nancy Mace, Thomas Massey, and Marjorie Taylor, Nancy Mason, Marjorie Taylor Green being the cheerleaders for MAGA. I think they just have like little m AGA cheers that they do in the bathroom every day
they go to Congress, right, And so that's first. The second thing is that Bill actually gave Pam Bondi in the Department of Justice a lot of opportunity to go in and scrub the list for things they don't like, for names they don't like, for individuals they don't like, for witnesses they don't like. So that gives me some pause that you're not going to have full transparency. And last,
but not least, I think that it's very weird. And this is this is somewhat of a reach, Tiffany, and this is why you're the journalist, and you're gonna be like,
I'm making a journalistic reach. But I do think you can have a conversation about Andrew Tate and the interference of the Department of Justice with Andrew Tate, who is himself a certified tax you know, a toxic man who is a misogynist, who is under investigation for sexual trafficking, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and the interference from the White House with their reluctance of showing up the
or showing out or showing off the Epstein files. I just think that there is an underbelly of toxic toxicity that deals with the lack of caring for young people women that we have to discuss this emanating from the right, And I think that there's a through line that still trumps and that may be, that may be, that may that may be a leap.
So I'm just saying, for my clarification and for the audience, what exactly is Trump's role and Andrew.
T so So when so one when Andrew Tate, who many people may or may not know because he is in what they call the manosphere, which is where unfortunately a lot of men, even I was talking to some of my nephews, but young black men, actually ascribed to his podcast as words He's literally beat women on campus, He's allegedly held them as slaves, he's trafficked them, et cetera. He was under investigation in Romania. As soon as Donald Trump won, he put out a tweet saying that the
Tate Boys are coming home. He ended up on a flight to Florida and they confiscated Yeah, they confiscated his phones on the plane. And the young gentleman I pronounced his last name wrong all the time, who was up for an appointment to the Department of Justice just recently and political ran the story exposing his Nazi tweets. Made a phone call to the border agents to give the Tape Brothers back their devices after they were seized at the border, something that had never been done before. It
had a very chilling effect. They interfered on behalf and Pro Publica has written an amazing piece about it. But they interfered on behalf of people who are under investigation for sex trafficking, which by the way, sounds eerily like Jeffrey Epstein. And I think it ties into this whole conversation about the Mantle sphare. I think it ties into a whole conversation we're having about what's in the files. Who was protecting these people Paul and Gracia if I
pronounced it right, and Gracia and Gracia. But he is someone right now who works and got a job without having secure without having to go through the nomination process, So I think it all ties in together. There's a lot that you on there. I sounded like Andrew Gillham and my recitation of where we were, But but that's just those things have been bothering me, and Epstein has been bothering my core for a while.
Angela, I muted because I'm I hear the comments all the times. Please stop talking over each other. But I hear everything Makari said, and I want to bring us back to Epstein unless you had something on this, but something that was really frustrating me. We were in our group chat talking about this because I saw time and again this week Republican members of Congress totally railroaded interviews. Anytime they were asked about, you know, Trump and Epstein,
they would deflect. And one person that kept deflecting to was Congress froman Stacey Plasket. So I don't know what you're about to say, but I definitely wanted to ask you about Stacey Plaskett and all this.
I'll go back on mute.
Yeah, I think to stay I ask I'm sorry, no, no, Angela, if you're going there or if you I wouldn't sure if you're making comments on Bacari Pacar's introduction or Plasket.
I was about to talk about Stacey Blasket, So go ahead.
Okay, before you transition there, if I could just Tiffany, you raised some doubt as to whether or not you think there's some lasting impact to what's occurred this week, and frankly, the build up and all the Republican fumbling around this issue pretty basic to me that when you're dealing with child's sex trafficking, that there's no partisanship to that. Right. Everybody ought to be pretty clear that we are against
people who traffic children. But now they've begun to split hairs on the right, basically saying a fourteen year old in an eight year old or a five year old are different without acknowledging that you cannot be under the age of eighteen and give consent legal consent for the business of sex. It just and some people have a harder line, like where Angela, you know, affiliates church wise, I was coaching two at one point. You know, we
take harder lines around this thing. It's not just what you are legally able to do, but then there's morally ethically and so on and so forth. But but but I would say they've majorly fumbled the ball here, mostly because they've treated it like a ball and not like the individual lives that are at stake and that have been impacted. Tiff, I think you may have some silf the press conference this week.
Well before we played the clip, because I wanted to set it up if you guys don't mind. So yeah, so my point Andrew about I don't think any of this matters, Like, yeah, obviously we all agree that we should all agree that pedophilia is a problem. But here's my challenge with this. We already knew who Donald Trump was before he was ever elected. And yes, but Kry, I take your point that he was that he introduced us because and the right was they were salivating over
this because they thought the Clintons were attacked. They thought this was a democratic problem, which it turns out it's an everyone problem.
And so.
We already knew that Trump was a liar before any of this happened. He asked Attorney General Pam Bondi. She told him his name does appear in the Epstein files, and he told the Wall Street Journal that she never said that. So these lies are pretty open and apparent. We already knew that Trump had many problems with women, and so I'll say all of his challenges with women after we hear from one of the survivors who spoke this week at a press conference.
Take a listen, and we'll talk about it.
On the other side, I beg you, President Trump, please stop making this political show, some class show, some real leadership, show that you actually care about the people other than yourself.
I voted for you, but your behavior.
On this issue has been an national embarrassment. It is time to take the honest moral ground and support the release of these files.
Okay, So that was Jenna Lisa Jones, one of the survivors of Epstein, And here is my challenge. Jenna Lisa Jones voted for Donald Trump prior to his election for this second time. By the way, we already knew that he had challenges with women. He's on record talking about you know you women, to let you do what you want if you can grab him by the p there.
According to reporting by BuzzFeed, he would go when he was running the beauty pageant, the Miss USA I Believe beauty pageant, he would go in where Miss teen USA forgive me, where young girls as young as fifteen were dressing and make jokes about his obligation or his ability to be able to sleep with them if he wanted. He would look at young women and say, you know, if you were a little older, I'd be dating you. He's made these kind of sick comments about his own
daughter right now. In these detention facilities. Ice detention facilities, we have seen evidence previously of alleged child abuse. There was the largest US operator for some of these shelters for migrant children face allegations of sexual abuse and harassment of miners at these facilities. The abuse allegedly took place at Southwest Key Program, someplace that was still operating up until a year ago, could potentially still be operating now.
It's a very shadowy operation. So I kind of feel like, yes, obviously these women are survivors and they deserve justice, But the fact that they voted for this man and vote for policies that put other children in harm's weight, not just of abuse, but of sexual abuse. I find it a little difficult to reach down inside myself and my own humanity and have sympathy because you're My challenge with this is Andrew. You don't want it to happen to you, But it was okay when these things were happening to
someone else. It's okay when you put other children in hers.
I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't take that. I take a shoe at that, and let me let me just first first. I don't think that we can allow them to change who we are in our core. And I think that having a level of sympathy and or empathy for someone who was the victim of Jeffrey Epstein can be looked at in a vacuum and mutually exclusive from who they voted for on this particular issue.
For me, it's not a challenge for me to support her through her healing journey because she went through something indescribable when she was a child perpetrated by a predator and by that predator's friends who were only protected by other powerful people and government. And you know, I don't.
I can't. I can in my heart separate my sympathy and empathy for her from who she voted for, because I refuse to allow them to take away the heart that I believe helps makes me whole and see the world in the way that I do.
I'm not saying she doesn't deserve symphony. Think I'm saying she voted in favor of someone who perpetuates the same thing that she claims she doesn't want. A few weeks on this show, a few weeks ago, on this show, we played the clip of Nancy Mace running out the testimonial room in tears. Well, she votes with Trump ninety eight percent of the times, like they vote in favor of policy that allows this type of behavior to continue. And if this type of behavior was happening to little
white kids, it would be tragic. But when it's happening to little brown kids again, please, I would ask the audience, I don't want to go down a whole rabbit hole. But Southwest Key Programs was a huge It was an awful thing. Our failure of legacy. Media never covered this with the intention and shit, but in print media you could see a lot of stories about it where children were abused all the time. This was during his first
ad ministration. So my challenge Bakari and Andrew is I, yes, obviously nobody deserves to be abused as a child, But my problem is this happened to you, and you still voted for a man who was allowing whose policies are allowing this to happen to someone else? You voted for a man where it was public knowledge and it was BuzzFeed. I can't remember what I said, but it was BuzzFeed who did the reporting about his inappropriate behavior with fifteen
year old pageant contestants. So I'm not saying they deserve it. I find the hypocrisy in this quite disgusting personally, but go for it.
I don't know that the hypocrisy is as black and white as we describe it now. One. I don't think that people drew the conclusion that Donald Trump was a abuser of underage children not doing the campaign. No one made that allegation. Yes, he was inappropriate, and by the way, that's inexcusable as well for a grown a man. But people treated.
That like boys will be boys if you are out of that line during the kid No, I don't condone it by any means, but I don't think there was a serious allegation at the time that he had participated and child molestation and child abuse.
He was off color about his daughter, he was off color about about these these pageants participants, and by the way, we could absolutely go down the you know circle, the the the drain on all of the kinds of ways in which Donald Trump is inappropriate. I don't believe that these women voted for a man who they believed was
sexually abusing children. He may have been an association, and again, they may, like all adults, be able to make complicated, you know, decision making and say, yeah, well, such and such was associated with my family, but I never knew what was happening behind closed doors, so they make allowance for those things. What really cut through for me with these women in their messaging is that it was the women who voted for Donald Trump who I thought were
most excoriating of him, his behavior and his record. Now it may feel like a little too too little, too late, but I actually applaud these folks for being able to rise above whatever the partisanship was in the moment to say, don't look at me where I am today, the voter, the thirty eight year old, forty eight year old woman, look at me as the fourteen year old who did not have defense, who did not have the adults who should have been paying attention, who should have had my back,
who should have prevented all of these travesties from happening to me and to a thousand other girls like me. They didn't have a defense. They didn't have a defender, they didn't have a champion, they didn't have the basic
modicum of justice available to them. I don't want to over extreme this thing, but when those women during their pre conferences, we asked us to close our eyes and sort of think about the the women in our lives, the girls in our lives at their age at fourteen, think about what they smell like, what they sound like, how they laugh. I just could not help but to put myself in that place and consider all the all the women I know, including you all, and think what
the hell I wouldn't do in defense of you. And the fact that the whole system laid down on its back for Jeffrey Epstein in the and and in the in the, in the the the depth of a diabolical behavior that took place there, I'm beyond Jeffrey Epstein. I want these files because I want to. I want I want to unmask the system that allow for that to happen. Because it wasn't just that colorable, that's for sure.
But if I can, if I can, if I can believe been very patient the soult, But I just want to make this point because I.
Think, yes, twenty three minutes podcast you yielded the mic.
I just want to make one quick point after every one of them, three minutes an adult conversation. I just want to make this quick point. Southwest Key Programs is still allowing for multiple abuse to happen, So the system still exists.
That's not okay. Care, So that's the only point.
Absolutely not okay. Agree, agreed, Agreed, Angela.
Yes, So I hope that we can all agree that child abuse, elder abuse, abuse of any adult, any abusive, any kind, tiffany thinking of you with dogs is not okay. Right, It's not okay, And that is the adult conversation. The adult conversation is to acknowledge that this isn't a partisan conversation at all. It's a conversation about power. The conversation is the fact that there are people who are not
blameless on either side of the aisle. The conversation is about the way in which this issue has been made to be a political football. Andrew, I think use the analogy of a ball as well, and both parties are to blame here. Larry Summers is in front of a Harvard class just on Tuesday talking about his role and how he was going to take a step back. But if it's okay, I'm going to proceed to teach this class. We have no idea who is all in it, like
literally to blame for this, and it is not. I hate to do this because I want to blame Donald Trump for everything possible.
But the reality of it is, there are a lot.
Of people who were playing ball with Jeffrey Epstein, no pun intended, a lot of people. There are women, there are men, there are elders, there are youngers, everybody in between. So it is about power and the ways in which we are proximity. Our proximity to power colors our conviction. It blind us to what is right. You know, emails being sent by fundraisers and like, yes, I get it.
I was one of the people that would send emails for my bosses for fundraisers and turn a blind eye to people who we know we wouldn't want to even be in the same room with, but because they're a donor, because they could cut a goddamn check, we're fine with it. Right, I understand, Like there are there's a lot here that needs to be unpacked, and we have to do this in earnest right, like we should not ever be treating abuse of anyone as a partisan game.
It's not. It really is not.
And I think that is what is most unfortunate here, because even after this vote, it is still being handled this way. Donald Trump played a mean, terrible game here, and he did not add up the consequences during the election.
But those people there are. For some people, what's.
Fine for us to allow them to be single issue voters, but for them it's not. I wish that Donald Trump never set foot in the White House. He is an embarrassment to this country. And yet, and still I understand how someone could say, well, this person is finally saying after decades that they are going to bring us justice on this issue where I felt unseen and unheard. I would hate to be in that position, But I can understand it. As sick as it is, I can understand it,
I really can. And what I think is really unfortunate here is on the day of the vote, the Senate says that the Senate said that they would do you see a unanimous concept vote, so they don't even have to be recorded for whatever reason you see happen. Bill is on the President's desk at the time we record this podcast, still not signed it to the law into law at the time we record this podcast.
But the reality of it is they still made it.
A game because on the House floor Tuesday night, instead of focusing on keeping the main thing, the main thing for Epstein survivors, they turned their ire towards Delegate Stacey Plaskett, who is a non voting member on the floor and censured her.
Sought to censure her. The vote failed. But I do want to play this clip since we're talking about felons.
You don't want to talk about what is really happening here. Your a tax on working families, your protection of powerful predators and corporate criminals. You want to talk about texting, texting felons. How often do you text President Donald J. Trump? That's the individual we should be concerned about.
I loves behind her with absolute.
The Congressional Black Caucus, chaired by Evatt Clark, made a statement in support of Stacy Plaskett. And of course this is regarding the hearing where Michael Cohen testified before Congress last year and in that hearing, Stacey Plaskett uh was texting with Jeffrey Epstein. She they they made the allegation that he prepped her to question the witness before the hearing, that he was feeding her questions. This is a career long prosecutor. She didn't need any help from Jeffrey Epstein
and yet instilled. The issue remains, why is he even in your phone? We have to be able to hold both truths.
Should she be centured for it?
No, because he was texting and email and talking to a whole lot more than just Stacy Plasket. But we have to acknowledge what people are battling in this moment where we're dealing with proximity to power, abuses of power, someone who is trying to undermine and dismantle frankly democracy.
People want real answers about the way.
That the He'll moves, the way that politicians move, and what needs to change. And I think it is an invitation for all of us to figure out what needs to shift so that we can do right by the American people at all time, regardless of our proximity to power.
Can I throw in one little random fact since we're here, Yeah, one of the things that I found to be a great deal ironic throughout this whole thing, and going through some of the people who are able to kind of code the emails for us, is there was one email
the Tiffany's point a little earlier. We were talking about just the systems of power and the Clintons and things that happened, but there was one email that actually stated that Bill Clinton had never actually been on Epstein Island throughout all this entire kind of and this goes back to your point, Andrew, we have more questions than answers, and it should not be that case when you have young women and we know that we're victimized, and I mean,
I yeah, I mean, let's be very clear and intentional about our language. Young girls who were victimized, and still yet and still to this day, we're talking about someone who's sentence and I do criminal law a lot, somebody who's sentenced for the crimes in which he pled guilty, allowed him free reign to come and go to the jail as he pleased, and that person ended up becoming the Labor Secretary of the United States, And it just it kind of goes to show the person who was
up again. Yeah, so it goes to show you that some of the things we held to be true may not be and some of the questions that we that we've had in our heart for a long period of time. And this is the I said this before. This is the fascination of Donald Trump that I have. We talked about it last week when we when we talked about him speaking for poor people and shitting on a golden toilet,
but poor people believing that he spoke for them. Well, in this particular case, the kind of Tiffany's point and Angela's point to put a bow on it, there are women in this country, particularly those victimized by Jeffrey Epstein, that felt like Donald Trump is the only one who spoke for them. And for me, I don't know how people go through there. I don't. I can't sit here with the audacity to say I know what it's like to go through that particular healing journey. But I refuse
to be like them. So I'm gonna give them that space to do what's necessary.
I have so many thoughts on that, but I don't I don't know if that was a deciding factor for those particular set of women. But we talked about this last week. We had our disagreement on this last week, Bakari and Andrew, we were on opposite sides because I think the system of white supremacy was always the.
Top thing for for them.
It's hard for me to reckon to reconcile that you vote for an ACUS sex offender because he's the person who's going to.
Speak for you.
I think there were a lot of other factors that contributed to that. But I hear you, I hear you. The chief stands alone, and I think all three of y'all probably disagree with No.
It could it could be.
You could be.
Right that they're both true. A matter of priority though right now was first and foremost of these women was there was a candidate running for president who, regardless of his motivations, because we know they were maniacal, he was trying to do an in run around. But regardless of his motivations, there was the candidate for president who was saying that this kind of behavior is unacceptable and we're going to unearth all of it. Lo and behold, he is the damn thought right.
Definitely, we're going to see I mean, they're saying categories are going to be blacked out obviously information about the victims and explicit details about the actual abuse. But here's where I'm my Spidey sense, because they're saying information that is properly classified to protect national security. And I just wonder, who are the people who's going to determine what is
national security what we can't see. I would imagine that some of these folks are going to be Trump acolytes and have a political interest in protecting people in these files.
Or have direct complement or or the other thing, which is something which is going to catch a wide swath of this information as he's going to as he already did say that he wanted to put other people under investigation, and you cannot disclose information. Oh can I say something real quick here?
Ye?
All right? This goes out to our Tiffany and Angela's good friend, Steven A. Smith. So there were a lot of people who question why Democrats did not release the Epstein files when Joe Biden was president. I need to remind people that Julane Maxwell was not convicted until twoenty and twenty one, and she was still undergoing her appeals process, which means that those records could not be opened. While
you're going through that judicial process. And furthermore, there were still people who were the targets, not official FBI targets, but targets of the Epstein investigation, and you dare not release information while those investigations are ongoing. And so there was this conversation that happened kind of around the water cooler. Well, Democrats didn't care. They should have released it when Joe Biden was president, and I just wanted to fact check that while we had the microphone.
But moreover, we actually believe in the system of justice where the executive does not direct the work of the Department of Justice, and you had a Department of Justice who was set aside doing its own thing. But moreover, we didn't choose this issue to weaponize, to use as a cudgel over Democrats, to make it a political issue that will cause voters to vote one way or another.
That's not how this issue was treated by Democrats. But I'm over the partisan because I think this is going to be one of those areas that is going to cross it if done properly, and I don't have full confidence, actually I don't have half confidence that properly is going
to be in the factor here. But if let's say a future president comes along who's interested in real justice here, perhaps they will make sure that nobody slips through the skill that we are able to hold not just the individuals, but the systems that allowed it to take place under the cover of every clandestine organization in this country, be it the CIA, the FBI. Again, we're talking about international trade of girl.
I guess the thing that I just would say, and I'm not saying that you were directing this response to me, but I just want to clarify I'm not talking about the release of the files when I say that these women waited for decades for justice. They just wanted Jeffrey Epstein to be held accountable.
Files released or.
Not about Yes, I'm just clarifying for the listener, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it wasn't that they've been pleading for the files to be released. They were pleading for this man, the people who you know, rape, harassed, abuse them, to be held accountable.
And they had not seen that.
And finally it looked like, you know, especially when you're in pain, you're in trauma, it looks like, oh, there's someone that's going to do this, not thinking that it is again a polittle football for them, so they're thinking like, oh my Hope is finally in something, and then you know whatever.
Well, the biggest loser goes to Speaker of the House period enough.
Said, oh, I know he should have played that clip.
Completely responsible next to next to next to President Trump for their there being making it necessary for a vote to have been having been taken.
No, making it necessary for a motion to discharge to have to happen, bring it to the floor, even went on recess, they went off the house floor.
Wouldn't do any house business during this shut down.
Not six weeks.
I'm not touching this.
And he wouldn't even he wouldn't even seet the person who was the vote for the discharge.
Petition, Rob Gave's daughter.
Yes, So let me just also say something that's gonna make since we all just jumped Tiffany Cross, something that's gonna make her feel better. I want to give a shot out. I want to give a shout out to Julie Brown from the Miami Hero because without local journalism, which is why I always tell folks, you know, you got to support local journalism, you got to support true journalism.
You got to support independent journalism when it's there. You know, Jeffrey Epstein's story, it wouldn't be something that came to the forefront, It wouldn't have risen to that level because it was because of these It was because of these local journalists who decided to listen to the voices of these girls, who gave a voice to the voice lesson. So as we're talking about the white we've talked about
every angle of this story. I wanted to make sure we didn't overlook Julie Brown from the Miami Herald, who was one of the many but at the forefront of making sure that this story actually saw what do they say, They say sunshine is the best disinfectant, and she was able to provide a little sunshine to the Jeffrey Epstein story.
Thank you for that, I think really important point.
All Right, Well, certainly we'll probably revisit this conversation a few times, but we do have a guest coming up, So let's shift gears to that. M all right, joining Native lamp Pod. Now is the Masssachusetts Massissachusetts?
Okay, he said, you're thinking about Mississippi.
Letter.
The general is going to be obliged to have to correct you, right, that's okay.
That is how you don't introduce the guess. I was doing that for your benefits, so.
I know how to introduce a guess and how not to around here on these n O P streets.
Now that's gonna be a T shirt now to.
Now let's really get into it, you guys.
Uh any who joining Native.
Lampard now is Theuse's Attorney General, Andrea Joy Campbell. She has served as the Commonwealth's forty fifth Attorney General since twenty twenty three. She's a member of the Democratic Party, and before that, she was a member of the Boston City Council. Madam Age, thank you so much for joining us. We're very pleased to have you. Welcome home, as we say around.
Here, welcome home.
Thank you for having me.
I know you're super busy, so I'm gonna kick us off with the question. All my colleagues have a lot of questions. I'll be quick with my questions. I think one of the heavy things that's big on our minds right now. We're seeing what's happening this week with Ice in Charlotte and our co host Bakari's neck of the Woods, and you've been on the forefront fighting the Trump administration on a lot of this. You seem to be at
odds with the US State's Attorney there in Massachusetts. I've seen you guys had a few moments of back and forth over what's happening there. But one thing that you've really been out front on EPs holders Temporary protected status Massachusetts, which I was not aware has one of the highest
Haitian populations in Massachusetts. Yeah, I didn't know that, Andrew, outside of Florida, and you have been really out front with protecting that that community of Haitians and Venezuelan's even going as far as joining a lawsuit against the federal government who's essentially going after what we call sanctuary cities where you know, people are allowed to live freely and not being disappeared off the streets, but they're holding hostage
funding basically trying to punish some of these cities. Can you let us know what is the latest in that particular fight and where that stands, particularly as we see what's happening in other cities across the country.
We are doing a lot to protect immigrants and frankly, to push back on a cruel immigration policy that we're seeing not just in Massachusetts, but as you said, across the country. And they would have Folks think that the immigration policy is about promoting public safety, it is exact opposite. It is about perpetuating fear in our communities. It's also not only perpetuating fear, those who might come forward to
report a crime are less likely to do so. It's absolutely undermining the trust between law enforcement and communities that have been built over decades and having just the opposite effect. And I will just say, with no transparency and very little accountability for the agregious tactics that ICE is using in our communities, if I had my state police conducting operations as ICE is right now, there would be transparency, accountability. I would be called to every agency to speak up
for their tactics. And here you have no accountability whatsoever. So we're doing our part to push back, doing a lot of know your rights training, filing a lot of litigation. We've filed several litigation efforts, I should say, on protecting stif including TPS for Venezuelan Haitians. We have a large Haitian population here in Massachusetts, and so much so that if we were to deport every Haitian in Massachusetts, our elder care system, our PCA care system, our healthcare system
would come crumbling down. And so there are real economic consequences in addition to that cultural contributions, of course, and frankly, we're making a crystal clear that these policies do nothing to promote the well being of our citizens, do nothing to bring about economic prosperity, and absolutely nothing to address the cost of living crisis that we're seeing in Massachusetts and in this country.
That's right, General, I am coming from Florida, having been born and raised in Miami. I actually one of the key stops that I made when I was running for governor of Florida was to Massachusetts to get rack up some endorsements of some of the Haitian leaders in your state. Oddly enough, General, you have the distinction of being only the second africa An American elected statewide UH in Massachusetts behind UH Edward W. Brooks, who I knew through my former boss who was his chief of staff for a
number of years. When when when Edward W. Brooks was in in the United States Senate, I am curious to know whether or not the legal maneuverings of this current administration in Washington, d C. Very specifically the U. S. Attorney General's Office has in their targeting of your fellow Attorney General, Leticia James of New York State.
If that.
Targeted, very cruel, unsubstantiated attack on her has caused or created any kind of a chilling effect amongst your fellow attorney general's attorneys general across the country. You all have been on the front lines. In fact, when we couldn't look around anywhere DC or any other community around the state and find front line, the attorney's generals were out there holding this administration accountable and standing on the side
of law and justice. But I am curious to know whether or not you all have experienced any kind of a chilling effect or what concerns it causes you to see this administration personally go after defenders of democracy and of law and of justice such as yourselves as Attorney's general.
I appreciate the question, and I stand on his shoulders as well as Duval Patrick's right folks who came ahead of me in Massachusetts who paved the way, and I used to be an attorney for Governor Patricks, so we're quite close in fighting the fight, and I will tell you I am inspired by them and all the other unnamed black folks that I stand on their shoulders, especially
black women. I was recently in Montgomery, Alabama, with Brian Stevenson talking about the wrongful conviction work he's doing and what we could be doing here in Massachusetts, and taking in obviously all of the sites that he continues to create to lift up our stories. I got on a
plane and I came back absolutely inspired. So yes, there are targets on the backs of ags, only Democratic ags of course, who are stepping up in this moment in time, targets on our back, but I've been leaning into it and saying, bring it on, inspired by the history of my folks, inspired by the history here in Massachusetts, and inspired by the stories are real people that without us, would not see relief and accountability, wouldn't have snap benefits,
wouldn't have a public education, wouldn't have a clinical trial for pediatric cancer if we didn't step up and fight the fight. And so I know many of my colleagues feel the same. We of course have AG James's back all day every day, but we know why we do this work, and I would add one personal layer for me is I'm very faith driven, aim that everywhere I go I know not only who I am, I know whose I am. So I'm just praying more knowing that my God goes ahead of me, behind me, and all
around me. And I think in this moment in time, we need to lean on our personal stories, our history, and our faith.
I love that. And I want to please excuse me, Duval Patrick, Governor, for that blatant domssion when I talked about only one of two state wise, of course there is, Governor Patrick. I appreciate the correction.
No, I was running to correct your Andrew, don't don't worry.
Thank you. I know you before you started.
Madam Attorney General. I love you, I adore you. For those of you all on Native Land who don't know, we were in Iowa and a cold, cold Iowa, and she was pregnant and we were out there eating cold pizza and knocking on doors for then presidential candidate Kamala Harris. So shout out to that baby that was in your right next month.
So we were running the street six years ago.
My goodness. Let me ask you just a personal question because I feel like I know you and supported you throughout the way. But people don't know that when they see you and they see your smile today, that everything don't always go right. In twenty twenty one, you should have been, as we thought, the next mayor of the City of Boston, and things didn't work out for you. Talk about that defeat and how that spurred you on to be able to do the great things you're doing now.
I mean, whether or not you're talking about snap benefits, or you're talking about children who aren't in school because they're afraid of ice or all those things. It did not happen if you didn't have that defeat. And we're able to gain some moment of clarity, I guess relying on your face. So how did you get knocked down and get back up again?
Definitely my faith even in that loss. I tell folks, it's how it's your perspective, right. I flipped the loss and saw it as an opportunity, and I said to God, Okay, if that wasn't it, then where are we going next? And I think it's really important you're going to have losses. But if anything, I learned more about myself during that race. I learned that I carried deeply about politics and government
helping people and not harming people. And so when the opportunity came along to run for Attorney General, I said, do I want that job? And let me tell you, everything works out as it should, especially when it's connected to something bigger than you and when it's not about you. And so this work of service is not about me. But it's not just my faith. You know, my personal story.
I've had so many defeats along the way. You know, when I was eight months old, my mom died in a car accident going to visit my father, who was in prison at the time. I didn't even meet my father until I was eight, and so my brothers and I we bounced around. We lived with my grandmother, who did the best she could but struggled with alcoholism at times. And when she was struggling, we're in a foster care system or with a relative. And then my dad would
get out of prison. I'd meet him for the first time when I was eight, but he would live to see me graduate from Princeton. I talked to him one morning. He died the same evening when I was nineteen years old, and then fast forward. My twin brother, Andre would die while in the custody of the Department of Correction at the age of twenty nine as a pre trial detainee as a result of receiving inadequate health care. So I
sit here today. My middle name is Joy, so I have no choice but to stand in that, but it comes from my biological mother. And in addition to that, just reflecting on all that loss and thinking about how do I use this job that I'm privileged to have to break other cycles of poverty, criminalization, mediocrity for other families in Massachusetts and families by our work outside of Massachusetts. So it's purpose driven work and I'm already breaking those
cycles from my two beautiful boys. So anything that comes my way now, I'm just like, bring it on, because if I got through all that, I know I'll be okay going forward. And I think this is our time to remind our people not to be ashamed of their stories, to be vulnerable in it, because it gives you tremendous power. So when you come across a professional loss, it's not that it's a learning opportunity. It's an opportunity to keep moving ahead and who knows where you might end.
Up Attorney General Campbell you talk to about your legacy and the shoulders you stand on. I can't help but to notice the picture of Muhammad Ali you have on the wall behind you, and I want to bring that up just for a moment, because I think it's important for people to understand how many knockout blows you've given to this administration, the Trump administration, with almost two dozen
lawsuits against the Trump administration. Would love to talk to you about how you feel about that record, and now that we know that the Trump administration is continuing down the very treacherous path of dismantling the Department of Education, including outsourcing the work of the Civil Rights Division there, I'd love to hear about the work that you are doing and leading with state's attorneys general around DEIA.
I really appreciate that, and I have Muhammad al lead because I feel like in this moment in time, he's like my muse, I guess, and Fanny lou Hamer too, both of them, and maybe Kendrick Lamar. Right now, I'm just relying on all of them in so many different ways. And I tell folks here in Massachusetts, we're small, but we're a mighty state, and we punch above our weight every day, and I feel like Muhammad Ali punching above our weight. We have now forty one lawsuits against this
Trump administration. They try to come for three point two four billion dollars in Massachusetts investments. Our lawsuits have protected three point zero two billion dollars of Massachusetts investments.
So who your.
AG is in your state matters, And most of these lawsuits are across state lines to protect DEI and DEA initiatives and to do it unapologetically. There is nothing right now, even as we sit in this conversation and on this platform, there is nothing that this administration at the federal level has done that has made DEI initiatives, diversity, equity, and inclusion unlawful. It is still lawful. So if anything, we're telling folks not to succumb to their fear, but to
keep exercising their leadership. And us ags have their and the education context and the employment context, you name it. We're also fighting for public schools and public education. The three billion I mentioned, they tried to come for close to two hundred million of funding for our public schools here in Massachusetts, which would not have opened on time and delivered educational services for our students and our educators
if we didn't follow that lawsuit. And we have another lawsuit of course against the dismantling of the Department of Education, so we'll continue that. But all to say, not only do we need to keep punching above our weight in this moment, ags have I think the most impactful tool to fight back because litigation in particular is what we need to hold them accountable.
That's excellent.
I know we also have a question we'd like to hear from our native lampire community. We have a question on veterans and how they are being protected or not so protected with the hands at the hands of Ice.
Creating's native lampire. My name is April from that Lansa. I absolutely love your podcast. I want to thank you for your comments on Veterans Day. We definitely want to praise our veterans and thank them for their service and their sacrifice. I have several members in my family that have service country. My question is, are you aware that there are immigrant veterans that are currently sitting in detention
centers and are facing deportation. One of those people is my loved one who signed up in the military, serve this country, and in spite of that, is facing deportation to his native country. It is not right, it is unjust, and I would like to know your thoughts about it. How can we bring greater awareness to these veterans that could be facing deportation and are currently sitting in detention centers. Thank you so very.
Much, Attorney General Campbell your thoughts.
First of all, thank you for lifting up that story, because I think people often when we're talking about this work, will refer to some spreadsheet and just numbers. These are real people. These are Americans or folks who want to be in this country because they love this country, and
in this case, obviously veterans. So in the context of even the snap conversation this happened before Veterans Day, we had so many veterans that were reaching out to our office because they were food and secure and grateful for our lawsuit to protect access to food benefits for them, a population that's often forgotten. We're doing a lot in this space, including in the housing context and for folks who are returning, in the mental health space, job and employment,
you name it. We have no partner at the federal level whatsoever. When it comes to this work. In name, they may say, oh, Happy Veterans Day, but in action and substance, there're no way to be found. And the fact that we have folks who are willing to die for this country sitting in detention facilities is absolutely unconscionable and ridiculous. And I'm not surprised the folks that they would say they're detaining. They're saying they're criminals. It's nonsense.
We are not seeing that. If there are maybe one person they pick up with the criminal record, when you pull back, if they're able to obtain the information, it is folks who have no criminal record, folks who are actively seeking asylum, maybe they're veterans or folks who've had cases dismissed, and so they're picking up folks who, for whatever reason shouldn't be in detention. So what we're doing is doing rapid response, making sure people have access to lawyers.
Were also helping with bond and making sure folks can be released on bond while they go through some proceedings. But the end of the day, I think it's a reminder to everyone in this country. Our ags will keep fighting the fight, but our tools at some point will hit a wall. The trauma that folks are experiencing is real. And if you don't like the immigration policy coming from this White House, get typically engaged, get out and vote,
do your part. It's equally important and it's just as powerful.
Well, I love you. I'm thankful that you came by. Some of my met some of my friends.
You've also taken care of us.
Yeah, I'm I'm glad you went there because I actually wanted you to end there, which is on I'm just out of curiosity, wondering how you let your hair down? What is relaxation for an attorney general who's at war twenty four to seven? It seems on every side, what does the calming down? Is it a reality show? Is it some yoga? Is it it collar greens cooked Kamala Harris style.
Well, I'm definitely looking forward to Thanksgiving for sure my family because it would be all of that and then some more. But it's running running around with my kids, playing with them. It's starting my day in prayer even before my kids wake up, before my husband wakes up, and just centering my spirit and just realizing I'm not doing this by myself, and I'm certainly not doing it
in my own strength. And it's also surrounding myself with positive people, people who know that yes it's hard, but rolling up their sleeves to say, well, what are we going to do about it? Not accepting it right and not lowering their expectations of what they should get from government or anything else. And so this space right here does that for me. So just surrounding myself with folks who pour into me and I'm grateful. Then I have
an incredible team. I work with folks who are dedicated to public service and I'm inspired by them every single day.
Thank you.
I love that general. Thank you, and welcome home. You're welcome, y'all.
Make sure y'all write some checks, write some checks to this ain't this job, and don't run off love and prayers.
Champagne contributions, campaign contributions. I just want to make sure we're not trump.
A new ballroom.
Right Andred campbelled up for a j Campbell m A on social media. So thank you all for having me stay blast happy, Thanks, happy holidays, Thank you.
So much, thank you so much.
Nobody knows.
Yeah, very happy that that she was able to join. That was a really good conversation.
I love that she punctuated the point of how important attorneys general are across this country because I keep saying the courts will not hold. I know, you know, I have two lawyers on the show, but I just I don't have a lot of faith in the Justice Department. And right now that seems to be who's on the front line, the judges and the attorneys general, and I just don't know how much they're going to hold. And speaking to that, Angela, you dropped in our chat speaking
of the courts not holding. What federal prosecutors are trying to do when it comes to Brehonna Taylor's convicted killer.
What is the latest there.
I just want to back into this a little different, and it's because you know, when we have this conversation and people say, you know, I'm choosing the lesser of two evils, or both parties are just as bad, or all of these things, there are pointed examples where we can show people the stark distinction between two different parties and the people that they put in place, and I think this is one of them. I remember when Donald Trump was elected the first time and Jeff Sessions was
Attorney general. I was calling it the Department of Injustice. And we've seen just how far this department will go to protect Donald Trump's friends, you know, people that have protected him. We've seen Donald Trump abuse his pardon power. We've seen the Pardon Office run by Ed Martin, an
attorney of Donald Trump's, abuse that office. And we're seeing the ways in which not only did they eliminate the transparency database around police office officers who have had passed issues around abuse, harm, harassment, even killing of different citizens in various states and cities.
But now a case that our folks fought hard for.
When you think about the convergence of what happened in the summer of twenty twenty with George Floyd, certainly that was met with amaud Arbury and Breonna Taylor, and now the thing that we fought for, the thing that her mother, to Miika Palmer, cried for, which was to ensure that her daughter eventually would receive some type of justice. I
wouldn't call thirty three months justice at all. But now we have the Department of Injustice, led by Pam Bondi, seeking to ensure that this man, detective and now I'm friging his name is it Hankerson, Yes, when now we're seeing them fight for him to be out of jail while they await his appeal. And I'm saying this knowing that Donald Trump is going after Tis James for a mortgage fraud that does not in fact exist, going after Adam Schiff and all the rest, all of his political enemies.
But they will protect law enforcement who abuse the power of the badge and kill us, willfully, abuse us, willfully, and then seek for them to be out on bail and then out of jail, altogether undermining what the Biden Harris administration's Justice Department did.
So that's the law enforcement that was brutalized by the January sisters, who who we are responsible for the death of of folks who were standing in the Gafford democracy.
That falls in the category of the pardon power being abused, given the fact that I started there.
Yeah, the pardon and then let's not even forget that we just found out this week. You like that timing note, don't you, Tiffany. We just found out this week that the raggedy District attorney or United States attorney from the northern part of Virginia didn't even show the Grand the second amended indictment for James Comey. They completely circumvented the process to indict another one of their political enemies.
This is.
Fascinating to me. It's fascinating to me, and it's hurtful to me. And it's not surprising to me because on the very bare minimum, I think we all started this journey and quote unquote civil rights with a few fundamental facts that we all held true, no matter if you were the four of us, or you in Black Lives Matter,
you were just somebody randomly protesting or whatever. It was the nexus that brought us all together for a lot of those voices that people who watch our show have been hearing for the past fifteen twenty years, is that one. We understand that Breonna Taylor, We understand the Motte Aubrey, We understand George Floyd, we understand. Everything that happened since
then is not justice. Justice is them being alive. Everything that happened since then is may be a monocrum of accountability, if that so, That's kind of first, and then we realized how difficult it was even to get that accountability. We realized that we had to move heaven and earth to get that accountability, and only with a blink of an eye, only with a vote or an election, does all of that accountability roll back. And the last thing is fundamentally all of us. I mean, I know, we
have our disagreements on whatever the particular issue is. You even have movements of black folk who were trying to get to the same place that have disagreements on how to get there, right, but all of us believe that we're in this position because people do not give us the benefit of our humanity. And Brianna Taylor is the perfect part of that. She didn't get the benefit of her humanity in life, and she damned sure not getting it in death. And so the troublesome part is Brianna
is not even able to rest. That is the that's the sad part of this.
I do think that it's important to also know to this point around rest, the attorneys that work in the Department of Justice have also reached a crossroads. There is a peace in The New York Times this week a deep dive where they interview more than sixty lawyers who talked about leaving the Department of Justice. Hundreds we have
been fired, and thousands more have left the Department. At least over a thousand have left because they can't defend what this administration is doing, which is not upholding or protecting the law.
Could I just add, while we're on this topic, that there are so that our audience isn't surprise, and we're not surprised, there are conversations and justice around what it might mean to pardon Derek Chauvin of his murderous acts. And the truth is is that I'm not even I'm disgusted by it, but not even surprised that this is
part of the conversation. There is a wing that has kept Donald Trump afloat, including in these latest polls that overall have been pretty you know, disastrous for Donald Trump of late a moment in time, of course. But but the people who keep buoying him are these hardcore radical right racists who he can do no wrong. Why because, as you've already pointed out, Tiffany repeatedly, is that they
are in common cause around right white supremacy. And they know at the end of the day, the beginning of the day, through the evening and and you know, whatever the hour, that Donald Trump is always going to stand at the at the at the at the at the goddamn gates like he's bull Connor at the doorway between what's right, what's fair, what's equitable, what's qualified, and white supremacy. And I don't mean to say that all those things
are opposite white supremacy. But if that's your if that's your modus of operandi, if that's what you live and die to defend, then we can't make room for your qualifications, your meritocracy. We can't make room for that when all I know is that you're motivated by making sure that the supremacy that has foregone us four hundred plus years is what follows for the next four hundred years. That's
what they're in defense of. So this I just want to ready our community that there's probably gonna be a lot more pain, a lot more hurt, a lot more rolling back of accountability, if we could say it, certainly not justice, but the symbols of justice that we've gotten. This officer fired into an apartment where he could.
Not see into it ten times blinds up.
I mean, this is.
Against any protocol of any law enforcement official blindly shooting into a space and he has no line of sight.
And this is the thing this is not just unique to Breonna Taylor's case. Of course, Andrew just referenced George Floyd as well, and Derek Shavin and the efforts that are a largely based in white supremacy to get him part and and we have a clip from Ben Shapiro on that.
And there are a bunch of reasons why Derek Chauvin should be parted. By the way, while in federal custody, he was stabbed recently twenty one times by fellow inmates. It's quite dangerous for him. The reason why we now know all of this is because we know from jurors that they were pressured, that they felt the pressure, that they were scared to rule in favor of Derek Chauvin. That we now know, and we could see it at the time, the amount of public pressure that was brought
in that particular case. The mayor of Minneapolis was signing settlements with the family of George Floyd on behalf of the city in the middle of the trial. The governor of Minnesota at the time was, of course Tim Walls, and Tim Walls was basically out there proclaiming the guilt of Derek Chauvin.
So let me just say this really quickly. I think Ben Shapiro is brilliant, right, I think that he is just a brilliant, brilliant person who articulates his views. We disagree with them. Whatever. Now that was some bolls because none of that is legally sound or justified. Right. There was nothing in that which reaches the level to have a conviction overturned, let alone a pardon like duror pressure one.
There's no evidence of that. There's no evidence that a juror would have because you know what happens out there. Every after every guilty plea, they actually or guilty verdict, they pull every jurors and say, is this your Do you want to pull the jury? Yes? Is this your verdict?
Yes?
Blah blah blah blah blah.
So that that is.
Settlements happened pre criminal case all the time, like this is not anything. But I think it's necessary that we hear somebody on the other side articulate their reasoning so that then we can come in and stand on our platform and be like, this is the reason why this isn't true. Not rooted in emotion, not rooted and I hate you you're on a but rooted in the fact that. No, this just isn't legally sound. And the crazy part about
it is Andrew Gillum, it's not legally sound. And Donald Trump still may do to shit.
Yeah, absolutely likely will.
Yeah.
I just have a slight disagreement there, not a slight a major disagreement there with Acari. I think if we're calling Ben Shapiro brilliant, then our standard for brilliant is very low.
That's his I don't mind calling people. I mean, I think he's a very I think he's very smart, very well read, very articulate. I mean, we can disagree with you, we can disagree with people who we think are smart, disagree.
With people I think he's smart all the time. He just doesn't fall into that category.
But I hear you.
If you think he's brilliant, I yield to the I yield to your point.
But I think it's just he's in all our brilliant meetings, you know. That's what I'm saying when we have our little meaning the brilliant people.
No wonder, I'm not invited to that meeting, but I do think that they mask a lot of policy and white supremacy. And I want to switch gears here and shift us to something that I want to talk about, and that is in your neck of the woods, Bakari, and in your neck of the woods, Andrew, there is a state law trying to be introduced. But in order for us to talk about that, I want to take
us back to last year. We were in Philadelphia and did a show leading up to the election, and we had a wonderful question asked from a young man there who's a member of Alpha Fay Alpha Fraternity Incorporated and stood up and asked this question.
Take a listen.
Say your name and where you're from. Please.
Hi.
My name is Shauna Alaone. I'm a junior here at Tembo University. As a African American man that have a disability, I was told by a white teacher that college was not for me. Here I am in college with a high GPA. But but but what I don't understand. We talked about the black boat, the black woman both the back LGBT two boat. What is amazing we're talkt about all that, but we don't talk about the black disable boat and people like myself of Tiger or being treated
as psychic past says it. So if y'all can just talk about what we need to do as a community to uplift the black disabled boat as well, so that more people like myself can be a success story.
We got a lot of response from that question, and I just shout out to him for standing up and asking and challenging us to talk more about that. And so ever since then, every week, I've wanted to revisit that topic. But again, during the Trump administration, it's like trying to catch competti covering all the travesty. So while we had time to, I just wanted to follow up with that since there's a story in the news this
week that speaks directly to it. But first, black people with disability are more likely to spend outside regular classroom. Students are typically checked out of classrooms, They're more likely to be placed in correctional facilities, and less likely to have completed high school. And so he bucks all those trends. There are more than three point six million black adults who have a disability here in America, and students with
these disabilities, as you see, are disproportionately discriminated against. And the ADA the American Disabilities Act passed in nineteen ninety and that, just like every other civil rights in this country past because of the work of black people. It was more out of the Civil rights movement. People stayed sit ins literally just copied the Civil rights movement to
get it. And there's intersectionality, of course, as we know with black folks in every underclass community, but certainly with black folks in the American discs Abilities Act.
Why are we talking about this?
Uh?
Where are you going? Where are you going with this?
Yes?
If I can.
Why why this matters on a serious note is because there is an effort underway in several red states, including yours Bakari and yours Andrew, to allow pregnant women to use handicapped parking spaces. And that sounds like a noble enough gesture. However, this is not what it appears to be. This is an initiative from right wing extremists. I think we have to stop calling them conservatives. Right wing extremists
to encourage more women to have children. So a typical tactic of right wing extremists is to pit one group against the other. And so there are communities, including in South Carolina and in Florida, who are filing a lawsuit to stop this. So instead of saying, let's provide parking for pregnant women. They're saying, we're going to take away these parking spots and make them accessible to pregnant women. Now, this is in direct violation of the American Disabilities Act,
and pregnancy is not qualified as a disability. And nobody's saying that that pregnant women should not be able to have these parking spaces. But there is a huge ground swell. And so because that gentlemen so bravely asked that question, this is precisely the intersection of people who are black, who have disabilities, who are voters, and where policy butts upright against them. There was a testimony from a woman in Tallahassee Andrew who was one of the outspoken opponents
of this bill. But this is a state law happening all across country across and I don't want people to hear it and think, oh, this isn't a bad thing. No, this is coming from white men, right wing extremists masking this and policy, and it's rooted in turning America into Gilead. And I thought this was some and really important to raise to the viewers. But I get it's out of interest to you, Bricari.
So that point.
Oh no, I was letting you finish, but I wanted to say one thing. I had to clarify one point. If you are pregnant, yes, you do qualify for short term disability. That's firm you and after you give birth there are a few weeks in which you qualify for short term disability. The reason I bring that up, just as a clarification of your point is you know the people who don't take advantage of that short term disability,
often enough pregnant that are black. Right, So I do want to and your point is so nuanced that I'm going to sit my ignorant butt down on the side. But I did want to make sure that I that I did articulate the fact that, yes, the pregnant women do qualify as being disabled. I think they should take advantage of it. And I think that those pregnant women should get parking spots. But that's about the same I'm going on.
Any private businesses I've seen actually create parking spots for women who are pregnant.
Yeah, I tell y'all.
Can I confess somebody quick? Can I confess something out one time? So if you tell me you park, No, it's worse than that what so like, I had to get on the zoom one day and so I was in the Fort Lauda Deal airport and I downloaded the app so I could go in and use the the the breastfeeding, you know, the little that I can think of.
The women need to feed their child.
Man, But there carrying that burden with that might have been the reason I had to wait in line with y'all before they get into heaven. So I'm just happy.
Streak in here, man.
I downloaded that app so quick. They were like, aren't you for your zoom? And I said it there and logged in. They were like, you got a beautiful background. It was all.
Scotty because I did want to just make that quick point. That is a part of the lawsuit that they're saying pregnant women can apply for a parking path for a short term disability.
So thank you for pointing that out.
Well, let me tell you my wife couldn't get nowhere carrying them to babies with her feet the way they were in those last couple of weeks. But I will say this, what you want us to do is to look at this from I think the view of how we expand, right, you don't have to absolutely then put certain communities against other communities, notwithstanding the correction, the legal,
important legal correction that you made, Bookar. This again is first of all, bless the woman who wants to have a child now to get a closer parking spot, because I they're gonna have to try harder on the incentive side. But I definitely know that that is part of the right wing extreme that this. You know, they're they're obsessed by their replacement theory and they are terrified by the low birth rates of of of of of white women,
So surely you know they go down that track. But I think we want to see this through the lens of expansion rather than you know, contraction of support for people who needed when they need correct and what we're doing and what we're seeing many of these states is the pitting against which is again what they do.
Well, and especially when you think about things from a scarcity model. I think it's really important. You know, I'm grateful that you brought up Andrew the idea that or Bakari, whichever one of you, you guys you know the same, all black people are the same. But talked about the fact that black women very rarely take advantage of this,
of this benefit, if we can call it that. But when I think about all the work that Kamala Harris and Lauren Underwood and other black women did in cong or really trying to make sure that we bring black maternal health to the forefront, and the many ways in which our humanity is not seen carrying children in this country in part because we did it for labor.
That is the history of this country.
What I don't want to do is dehumanize us even more when we do need this type of support. So one thing that I think is important in just for a moment, because I think it would behoove us not to miss something that has been on the radar talking about black pregnant women. There was a woman in Dallas, there's a woman in Indiana who both were kicked out
of hospitals just recently. And I want to play the clip of the woman in Dallas who is clearly in a disabled position, and as she is going through intake, which she should have not had to do while she was in active labor, she's sitting in a wheelchair, definitely in a disabled position.
Can we row that clip.
Right now?
As at home, here's your.
Doctor laying is her doctor?
Are your patients like this?
Are just the black ones?
Is the tenth? I bet you y'all listen next time.
When you found out you was delivering at this hospital, your ass should have changed doctors.
I'm believable.
It's not. It's not, it's not even so, you know, I think my story is kind of well known. You know, Ellen almost died during childbirth, so I don't even want to go down that path. In fact, my number one political issue is African American female mortality because that happens more than people know, of course, and the reason being is because of our implicit bias we have in our healthcare delivery system, and people like, what does that mean?
If any person ask you, does racism still exists the number one example as it exists when black women are giving childbirth, because it crosses over socioeconomic levels. It doesn't matter if you're on Medicaid, it doesn't matter if you are Serena Williams or Ellen Sellars. It can affect you equally, right, And it's because in their studies that people inherently believe that black women have a higher pain tolerance or that they're more likely to fake the pain that they're going through.
But Andrew, this is the point that I wanted to make by laying that out. This is why black men have a very very very important role in a woman's pregnancy and childbirth because many times, many times, in that room, you have to be your partners number one advocate, because oftentimes those individuals cannot speak up for themselves because they're
going going through that process. And unless you were there yelling and screaming, kicking and shouting, cursing, threatening lawsuits, call the police, doing everything necessary to protect the life of the woman you love and the little people you ain't even met yet, then sometimes, and too often, more often than not, those black women will die.
And Bacari that I was listening to a NPR story the other day, really right down these lines. One of the most effective ways of getting medical staff's attention during your partner's pregnancy and delivery is for a husband to be the advocate. With one exception husbands of color.
That's because they want to take.
Chimes, who oftentimes call security. Security is then escorting the husband every single place he goes. The message goes out through the hospital staff that this is a problem man, and I mean in the story, I was listening to
this immigrant not immigrant. I'm sorry he was of Latino dissent father was arrested while his wife gave birth, complained about the pain that she was experiencing, and nearly died, right, I said during your comments, Bacary, thanks Charles Johnson, who is the husband to Kira, and they have an organization, he has a foundation.
What is it for care for life?
I believe it is I need to look at I need to four care of for moms and shows. He's been a guest on our show. But Charles Johnson an incredible advocate for just the most unspeakable tragedy. His wife bled internally after a c section for ten straight hours. Right, people, she said something is not right, something's not right with me, and dismissed again her pain not perceived as real pain
being manufactured of some sort. And then a life cuts short, a child who won't have his mom, a husband who has lost his wife, all of it preventable.
Right.
So, I couldn't agree with you more that that we husbands have to be there, but we have to systematically demand better. There is no reason for black mortality rates to be at the level that they are, and for us to still be scrutinizing individual cases when we know that that is only the case because of systematic racists, not just policies, but practices and in practice, and hospitals in healthcare systems all throughout the country everywhere, and lots have to change.
I think the important thing here is I know we have to wrap is that we don't keep pitying different groups against each other. Pregnant women, black, white, Asian, whatever, deserve to have access that is easy, deserve to have a life that isn't making their pregnancies harder. And I think that they can do that without taking away from parking spaces that already exist. If they can make space for electric cars, certainly they can make space for pregnant
women and so. But I do not think that it is smart for us to pit these groups against each other. And we should focus really hard on making sure that it is easy to bear children and to be pregnant in this country, and we should also make sure we're protecting accessibility for other people.
We are not pitting them against each other. It's these right wing extremists, And to your point, if they really gave a shit about pregnant women like you just gave a testimony. Angela just talked about the work that I'm Vice President Harris did on this, Congressman Lauren Underwoock, Illinois did on this. If they really cared about people bringing life into this world, they would put their resources there,
not into some BS legislation taking away. And so that sets up a war between two communities who both, like Angela made the point, deserve to have accessible parking spaces.
Sorry, but go ahead.
No.
I was just saying, thank you for introducing the subject, and I like, I like this show. I mean, I know I add a great deal of value. But the way that you three, the way that you three are able to take that topic and be able to I mean, we extrapolated that with such death depth. I just I mean I oftentimes when we talk with our friends, we don't ever just say thank you for the conversation and thank you.
For adding to it.
That clip that we played with the pregnant woman, it's hard to watch, but I'm happy that we were playing it in full because hearing her screen, her guttural cries and the way that that woman was talking, the way the white nurse was talking to her, very dismissive, and then see her she wasn't even listening.
I did see a post afterwards because she got fired, and the nurse did acknowledge, and she said that there are a lot of good nurses out there. Don't let her behavior. She she had a I don't know what to call it.
It isn't just about her, it is a at the rate as you know, it's systemic.
All right, Well, it's time for cause and action. So let's get to that.
Who cares about truth? When the last morning's seen it?
All right?
Is that time in the show for calls to action?
And I'm going to kick us off because I let Macari kick us off in the beginning, and so my call to action, uh, this week is another selfish ask of all of you. I want to know what y'all are reading this holiday season. Every year in my book club, we read a classic. So we're reading The Great Gatsby. So drop me in comment and let me know y'all are reading you and Trump. Yeah exactly. But I'm trying
to get back up to a book a week. And I'm not like some of these people who are like I don't read fiction.
I love fiction. So if y'all got good fiction, good non fiction, whatever, let me know.
So my CTA is also very personal. I have been dealing with my mother, who is currently in the hospital, and one of the things that I'm understanding and being baptized by fire by, is.
How ill prepared.
I feel like my generation is to deal with aging parents, and so what I really want to do is a joint project with our Native Lampod community where we can put together a shared memo of all the resources that we need, making sure that our parents have wills and trusts and that they're updated, making sure that our parents have you know, power of attorney done. I had to call Medicare earlier for something and he was like, I
can't tell you about that. You're not authorized, right, Like all of these things that are small and they don't take a lot of time, but when you have to deal with the convergence of all of them at the same time, it's overwhelming. So I want to hear from you all your stories, what you all have done to succeed in this space, how you supported your parents.
Their adults.
They make their own decisions, but they need a little more support, and they do not like being treated like your grown kids. So if you got tips for that, I'm a bossy child too, help assist out. I definitely want to get this right and want my mom to feel loved and supported and held with the dignity of a queen, which she deserves. So I know y'all have probably been through that with your own parents. Andrew, I know you're going through that with your mom too right now.
So whatever tips y'all have, please send them to meet and Andrew. I'll make sure he reads them too.
Yeah, I appreciate that ask going on our behalf and I got to just give a shout out to my sister the I'm glad my mama didn't stop at six children. I'm glad she went for seven. The only girl of the bunch, My baby sister, attorney counselor Monique Gillham, who has been there every step of the way like I had, was at a funeral this weekend and I just want to speak about this issue of aging parents and our
lack of preparation for it. I want to lift in prayer my good friend brother Alvin Benton, on the passing of his mother. Gwendolyn Benton, an educator, was a personal assistant I think too. Ceo, Uh, maybe it was. Coca Colage was a principal elementary school principal, gave her life and service to people. And one of the things that Alvin said during the funeral as he was given reflections on his mom and her her impact on his life, he's a mama's boy, he says, I can confirm he's yeah,
he I do. But but in truth, Alvin said during his reflections, to say a prayer for and check up on your strong friends. And I think about you, all the folks who I get to share this platform with, and when I think about strong friends, the ones who are always in the gap for other people. But it really resonated with me, and maybe I was in need,
maybe myself. I don't know strong people really ever do the asking, But it made me think about the people in our lives who are always carrying, who are always doing, who are always looking out. So I just want to echo Alvin's Alvin's directive to check on your strong friends, the ones who always checking on us and always doing, and always going check in on them and just see that they're okay. Like he said, they need a little sunshine, a little rain drops to flourish as well. So shout
out to to Gwendolen Benton life. She lived two weeks prior to my cousin Michael Sam's who passes well. Men, brothers, check up on your health, but check in on your on your strong friends. What you gotta be.
Yeah, No, you're bridging a gap because you got to raise your parents and you gotta raise your kids. And so one of the things that I wanted to do was just talk about whether or not it's Epstein that we were talking about earlier, some of the things that I've been kind of going through in my work day. Be very mindful of your children. Be very mindful of the things that your children are doing and that they're into.
My call to action is I have a young lady who I represent, who her child was playing Fortnite and she heard some things that were untoward being said on Fortnite, and so she began to ask her daughter if anything like that had ever happened to her. She's under the age of ten, and she began to tell her mother how she was being sexually abused at after school program.
And so I just want as to while we're talking about the things we need to do for the adults in our lives and our parents to also make sure that we're raising that level of awareness with the young people that are around us, because this world is a hell of fied place outside, and so just make sure that we're being mindful on both sides.
All right, we need to pick me up. Call tough stuff.
Yeah, no, I got my I gotta pick me up. What I'm gonna do for Tiffany Cross's book club is one of my co workers, Scott Jennings. His new book just came out in time for Christmas, and I'm gonna send it over to Tiffany.
Did somebody pick up against on the internet. Nobody want to.
Hear this, So I'm gonna get Cross. I'm gonna get tif Cross Scott Jennings' new book for her book club, and y'all read it.
Thank you the car I picked up what he puts.
Yeah, thank you.
No, but seriously, I actually will take that book for that. I go away every winter with some friends of mine in my book club, and sometimes we rent the house and we run out of firewood and we're always like, oh, we need paper to burn.
That is.
Good Scott, Scott.
If they buy it, if they buy it, they buy it, Scott, it don't matter what they buying.
That they.
Sorry to this band anyway, She's not anyway. Thank you guys for an amazing show. We'll be back next week. There are three hundred and forty eight days left until midterms. And don't forget about Latasha Brown's we ain't buying it the movement. You're not supposed to do any shopping after Black Friday. I think is Isela is wearing that we ain't buying what you're wearing Black.
No, it's Black House Orders Matter, imtives.
Aware of Black voters Matter, attizes organization, And if you like what you heard today, please be sure you share it, tell a friend, leave a comment. Make sure everybody you know is subscribing and listening to Native Land Pod.
Also, please check out some of the other.
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