Native lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason Choice Media.
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Home, y'all.
This is this week's mini pod. We have a continuation of our conversation. We started talking about what happened the fallout with Chili, their likes on social her shares, reposts, her politics perhaps, and we also had a conversation about Nick Cannon's car ride with Amber Rose. Of course, these are just the latest examples of people who are in the public eye who support Donald Trump, or at least appear to.
I think the question I would like for us.
To focus on on this part of the show is, you know, what is the barometer for how people get held accountable? Can they come back? If they can come back, how do they come back? And really how we hold ourselves accountable for the hypocrisy that exists. And you know, the folks who drive tesla's, or the folks who use X, some of us who still pay for you know, to make sure that we keep a blue check because we think in some way that means they won't hack into our accounts or whatever.
Our justifications might be.
Those of us who use or overrely on Meta who still have iPhones. These are all of the companies and I'm just named some who have compromised on DEI who have donated to Donald Trump. Some folks are still watching CBS. We use CBS clips on here. We know that the Ellisons are diehard Trump supporters. And now, of course TikTok. So where do we draw the line?
Y'all?
Right, that's the question I really have, And I don't have the answer here. I'm not calling people out for hypocrisy's sake. I'm telling you what I'm using as well, right, So I'd love to have this conversation and figure out how we draw the line.
Where do we draw the line?
Can I layter on?
Just so just another example? Yes, So take for instance Target and Walmart. Walton's big Republican donors probably have done more damage than we could name through their political contributions to the hard right and Mitch McConnell and his high way robbery of Supreme Court justice seats, which again we're filling the effects of and will continue to for the next twenty thirty forty years. But when we launched a strike on Target, a lot of folks were saying, well,
why not Walmart two? And I was rationalizing in my head, and again this is a rationalization. I kept thinking my trust level had gone respecting trust level had accelerated for Target during this sort of awakening we experience after the death of George Floyd.
And I was really proud to.
Spend a little bit more money with them than some of their competitors. And so when their wholesale abandonment it felt like came down through the shifts following the Trump administration's demands, with no defense for the actions they had taken, right just just to flat out like okay, we're done with this next move on. It felt like a betrayal. And so even though I know that the Waltons give in that their money impacts us in harmful ways. For me, I spend less set Target than I do probably a
lot of other places. I have withdrew all of my resources from there, and having walked back in the door since it's been announced and have no plans to that.
Was a betrayal that felt very.
Personal, and I felt a little stupid by it because I believed and so I don't know how we I think in some ways some of the artists that you mentioned have that same kind of an effect.
It's like, okay, cool, so long as.
You're singing in and I don't know about your political leanings, and this is that, and third and what you're doing, how you vote or if you vote, that kind of thing. But then when it comes into focus and now I see that, no, this isn't like a passing phase, like this is what you believe, who you are. It then
affects me like a betrayal. And so even though other artists may you know the guy we jelly roll or whoever you know play, I ain't never bought his stuff, but if he comes in the radio sounds good, I might listen and so on. But if they do, I'm gonna change the station. I'm going to do what I
can to avoid them. I'm going to whatever, because there's a hurt feeling there, so I don't It doesn't completely answer your question, Angela, but I do wonder like, Okay, yeah, there are a lot of people who harmful things, But the thing that then drives me to action is the letdown, the betrayal, because I had an expectation to begin with.
I think I'm sorry.
I think some of this is that people do I think two things are true.
One is that it's often used as an excuse, right, that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. But I also think that that is a painful thing to admit because we want to be altruistic. People want to stand for something, We want to believe in something, and yet some of the most ubiquitous items in our lives are compromised, right. And it's very difficult unless you were going to go live completely off the grid and become a hermit, to not engage with a company that has donated or worked
against your interests. And so I think that what people then do is they try to at least have something that they can stand for.
Right.
So if I can't stand against all of it, I mean, this is going to air on YouTube, right. Google is compromised, right, And yet especially with these platforms, I don't want YouTube to be without voices like yours, right. I think it's I left X very early on. I got my blue check back. I never paid for it, but they put it back and I had nothing to do with that.
I just want to be very clear.
But like I locked my account, the bio says I'm not here, and we see what's happened to that platform.
It is not a place for any kind of reliable news conversation information, in part because of a great part because the algorithm intentionally ruined the ability for people like us to be heard, but also because a lot of us got off and went elsewhere, And so there's as The second piece is that there's a cost benefit analysis that I think people do, and I think that that is I think we have to understand that for people as humans, right like it is if you've got books
to sell or a side hustle, were you trying to sell some merch to people. Getting off of Meta is not quite so easy when you're trying to keep food on your kids table. But you don't have to buy that concert ticket. You don't have to go to Target for that item that you can often buy in other places. I haven't been to Walmart since I was in college and was doing going to labor protests, right like, I haven't been to Walmart in a while, So we really had to rejigger when it was when it was time
to say goodbye to Target. But the cost benefit analysis was that this is something I can stand for, even when I can't stand for all all of the other things and ways that my consumption is already compromised.
Let me ask you, but it's true. Let me ask you this really quick. On this point. You don't have to buy that concert ticket. An author does not have to sell their books in Target or Walmart. Right, there are these, there are these other and and to Andrew's point earlier we were talking about the struggles.
Don obviously is.
No longer a part of in Vogue, the one who has been living out.
Of her car.
But there are other members of these groups in Salt and Pepa in in Vogue who don't have any like not even the t n LC. They don't have anything to do with what's happened, and they will feel the impacts of people not going to the concert. Now I've had conversations with some folks around them. Sounds like ticket sales haven't been impacted, really, like if we're just being completely honest, and so I'm just curious to know again, where do we draw the line and why? Like what what is uh?
What is the line?
Like?
Why is the line the concert ticket?
And why is not the line going over to support spill or going over to support what's the one? Isaac Cayes has what's the one of that fan base? Like, why is the line to punish the black person? Is it because the expectations are hired for us like we were, like like Andrew talked about the disappointment with Target, Like I get.
Think that's a fair question. Yeah, I will just say on the concept.
So for me, for example, and I really can't have the answer, it's not a loaded when I really am curious to here, Yeah.
And I don't think that. I think the hard thing here is that the answer is not standard across.
The board, and we just need to go ahead and admit that.
For me, I don't want to be on my Instagram shaking it at a concert that I would have very much enjoyed and then have people who look to me and my platform questioning what I'm telling them right, or questioning my loyalty or fealty to justice. And that's that's not to say that I depend on what other people think in me, but for me, that was part of the that's right that I don't want to unintentionally send a message that nobody's forcing me to send.
But are we sending hard number? Car?
And then I promise I want you to wait in here, because I want you to actually answer this. Are we sending that same mixed message is if where they go to find the message is on these same compromised platforms.
So what I'm saying is.
If where we're informing them is on a platform that has overwhelmingly supported Donald Trump monetarily he was taking off of those platforms, he was put back on those platforms, if where they can find us saying these things are on these platforms that have supported Donald Trump in a much more full throateded way than Chili or even Nick Cannon, who passively says, I asked what Trump. He sounds like he's joking.
We don't know.
I haven't talked to him. But let's say that that's the case. Are we complicit in that point at that point?
B Yeah, I mean, and.
I think that there's a difference in locus of control. Go ahead the other beat.
You sound like my mama. My mama says locus of control, go ahead.
I don't know. I just think we're thinking too small.
And the reason being is because I'm not going to indict Britney Pacneck Cunningham and her life's long work for torking at a TLC concert.
I'm just not the exception. You're not You're the exception.
Yeah, I'm not because I don't because I'm not going to.
I don't look. I don't look at people for an action.
I look at people for their habits, right, I don't judge people off of one failure. If you make those failures habit, then we have an issue. I'm on Twitter because I feel like there has to be voices there like mine. I'm on Twitter because of course I sell books there. I actually got the eight dollar trade what you call it, because I was afraid that without double authentication that I would be compromised and hacked.
Does that make.
Yeah? I mean I was like, look they giving away, you got to pay eight dollars a month for the authentication. I know who Elon Musk is, I know how dangerous he is. That doesn't mean that I'm not out here talking about Uh. The fact that I believe Elon Musk to be the epitome of what a white supremacist is that his worldview is rooted in racism, right, that that's how he was born, It's a culture that he's he is. He literally imported more racism to this country than you can probably imagine, right.
And so, but I don't think that.
I don't think that you can conclude that I'm something else because I have an eight dollar subscription to Twitter, and I know that people do those things and I disregard them. Went to Breezy Ball, I mean I did. I thought it was one of the greatest concerts I've ever been.
To me about the slide, Chris Brown, Yeah, okay, all right, well that happens some people.
Yeah, I mean I did, but I like this moment.
Let's like I own it. I own it, and I'm like, so, I mean, I'm not gonna tell you who I was there with, but.
Do you still listen to her Kelly?
No, well no I don't. I don't consciously on the occasion, but like.
If somebody plays, I believe I can fly at an elementary school program.
I'm not down elementary for.
The national anthem.
I stayed for the national anthem.
I haven't. But this is what I mean about personal.
But it is it is.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I know, man, I know so many black folks right now that are dying for this country is as bad as this country treats us. And I think that I think what I'm saying saying is that black folk have a uniquely toxic relationship.
With this country.
That it's very difficult for us to begin to nitpick the toxicity that we're having to deal with today, and we start we started saying, oh my god, this person did ex toxic, and then we discount all the good
work that they've done. I think Charlemagne the God is one of the best examples of that, because he is one of the culturally most complicated people I know, and his intellectual curiosity, for example, it drives people wild sometimes because he asked questions, and there are people who literally will discount him not knowing the work that he does in South Carolina, not knowing all of those things. Now, I don't think he cares a whole lot, but that is just that's like one example.
And I don't like that you said toxic in the same citizens that isn't my brother. I don't like that.
I wasn't calling him toxic by any stretch. But no, he's one of my best friends in the world, but not by any stretch. But what I am saying is people will discount him because they don't like the intellectual curiosity that he puts out there or they don't like.
People don't even call it intellectual. They won't even they won't even say that, and that's unfortunate.
Get but I don't believe anybody of the responsibility that you But I'm saying we do.
We throw the baby out with the bath water too much, That's what I'm saying. And I'm saying that people in particular are more complicated. And if Britney wants to dance to TLC as much as we dislike Chili, she should be able to do that and people will still understand the work that Brittany Pagnet Cuttingham has done because we're not intellectually like small.
I don't like, I don't discide Chili.
I'm confused about what she's doing, and I want to hear from her in earnest and I don't feel like I've had that opportunity.
It might have been different if she hadn't lied to us. I'm not even gonna hold you like I might have had a different response.
I might not say she was afraid.
Probably, And here's the thing with Kury, I think that you're right that black people absolutely have a toxic relationship with this country. It's part of the reason why when foreigners jump into our our countries convers political conversations right now, black people would be like, I don't countess in that right, and I'm still not going.
To breeze ball.
Some of that has to do with my own personal life experiences and the fact that I actually will not feel physically good in my body standing in there, right.
And so I think that you're right.
We cannot dismiss all a person does if they make a mistake, just like we can't dismiss all a person does if they engage in something that we personally wouldn't.
And I do think that.
It's dangerous that society has moved to a place sometimes it's primarily online, but the society has moved to a place where it's that easy to dismiss people, and we're not willing to restore to be curious, to ask questions, to think broadly and longitudinally about somebody's contributions.
But I also think that when people.
Are hurt by the choices we make, it is right and community minded to consider their feelings, even if it's not going to change your actions.
And I will say I will say that, and to that is because I believe it to be the same side of the coin is that we expect grace without extending it to others. And I don't believe any of the four of us or anybody listening to this is the shepherd to the grace that I deserve or the grace that I can give. And I think that a lot of times we try to own that principle and we just we we hored grace like it's something that's bestowed upon us by you know, like we're we're the
creators of it, when we're not. Grace is given by God and we It's just that is what makes me a little fickle about this conversation.
I wish try of us actually gave ourselves grace, because I would argue, amongst the four of us, I would argue this about your grace deficit that you start by to yourself, and that it is it is that it happens that you're given in spades for others. I mean, I used to say along the trail, how often that nobody should be judged forever by their worst day. And
those are my words, those were my feelings. It was a way I could scincly express that while there may be consequences for the thing that you doing, the choice that you made. There shouldn't be a lifetime judgment made of you for that thing. And I think I feel the same way about all of these other intervals of accountability that get to be had.
I love my children more than I love my own life. That feels like some days.
But guess what, Jackson, I saw that you did bad and poorly on that thing, And did you push your best into it? No?
You didn't.
Okay, Well, that thing you love, that tablet is coming with me today and you won't see it again until this weekend.
And he's gonna have.
An attitute, and he's may cry and go in the corner. And da da da da doesn't mean I love you any lesson. In fact, you ought to worry when I don't take it from you, that's when you ought to be at concern. So we do these things largely as an I feel like an outflow because we had expectation, because we had hopes, because we felt a type of way. And now that you have now corroded that, I mean, people sending out there like you is broken my heart.
And I've been six issue lost that race and I'm thinking, do you think I have been enjoy and its celebration? And you know no, In fact, I feel very heavy every day because I feel like I couldn't deliver for you. And I know what the concert. I knew clearly what the constant.
Now the people didn't deliver for you.
However you say it, it is still the way I embodied and embodied it as godly.
I couldn't bring it home, right, And so you telling me.
How bad you feel, like, I promise you you won't have it worse than me. The worst voice I will ever hear will be the one of my own and not anybody, right, So I just think the reason why we respond and and Brittany, you said this early on in our conversation, it's sort of this issue or this question of what we have, what we can accessibly do, because I can't punish bezos individually right right, but collectively we might be able to you know, land a finger
nail right on right? The man could you know, makes more sleeping right than we do a wake for our lifetime. So anyway, all I have to say, the accessibility thing really resonated with me because I figured, like, yeah, we do want a way to feel good about sowing something into society. And part of our accountability is that, actually, you know that thing about feeling good about something, that's what I'm done.
That is it's so powerful.
And I think the thing that I would ask for us going forward from hearing all is that we continue to have conversations that have this level of care one two the level of nuance, because we can't continue to like my biggest pet peeve is when people go on social to land blast someone for clicks, for likes, to be in the algorithm, to be in that mix to go viral. It's irresponsible and I think it is just as irresponsible as the action initially taken that you're responding to.
And so where does the cycle of irresponsibility in Well, it ends where we decide to have grace Bakari. Whether we are the bestores of that or not, we can still choose to walk and move in it to embuy for ourselves so that we can offer.
It to other people.
If we choose not to do that, I don't know what communal love is. I don't know what the village concept that we talk about is, Yes, you can come to the village to be rebuked, to be held accountable, but you should also be taught and love back in. I just I don't want to get in the process of throwing people away because it ain't that many of us.
And that's we can't throw people away because at the end of the day that I love you're talking about that community you're talking about, and this is what people don't like, and this is the toxic relationship I'm talking about with this country, is that Black people are forced to love our neighbors even when they don't love us.
And I think that that is that type of stress, that type of emotional drain, means that what you said, Angela was correct, because we're utilizing And that's why I just and maybe it's me projecting, because I want people to judge me off the totality of life lived, not on the failure that we know that I have had and will have. I mean, it's just I don't know, it's I.
Also I'm sorry. I also decided a while ago that instead of bear the shame of feeling like I made a mistake in public, that I would just be willing to learn in public, and that as a person with a burgeoning platform at the time, that I didn't expect,
but that I felt very responsible toward that. What was going to be important was that as much as I tend to extend grace to other people more than I do myself, I wanted to offer the opportunity for people to see that I am imperfect, and that if I fall short of my own integrity, right, not of your critique, but of my own integrity, that I actually want to, actually want to own that, I want to show my effort to correct.
I want to I want to push forward in a.
Way that then invites you to do the same, invites you to be reflective, right, And whether after that steak you dismiss me.
Or not, I will feel good when I lay my head down at night.
The other thing I've been doing lately is tricking my algorithm, and I have been complimenting strangers like it is my job. Like if somebody got engaged, somebody wore a cute outfit, somebody was like, hey, I've been sober for twenty eight days.
I'm up in them comments.
Like you go, you got it.
We're cheering you on because now my algorithm looks very different, and I'm not really as tempted to hop into a conversation to drag somebody now because I'm not even seeing the dragons. My algorithm is not presenting those things to me. When I chose kindness first, I got kindness back.
Get it, I get it, get it. Technology doing something right, girl, you know what I mean?
Liking workout videos because I'm doing a ninety day challenge because your girl gaining twenty pounds, so.
Challenge.
Look, he's been breaking it. You see he talking a lot less about all them stopped.
You got off your gym clans.
No, I'm back on it.
But I do a lot of hot yoga and pilates too.
Job, that's why you got the teddy p here. That's like.
Broke headphones. I do not have any grace for them.
Headphones turn on neck, but we are so great.
Short sleeve turd on that that don't even make no.
Sense, you know the whole time. But you committed to the You committed to the You committed to.
So y'all, I do want to just say thank you for being such a loving place for us to land, for us to continue to have communal conversations.
I know that this is just beginning.
Somebody else is going to disappoint We are going to disappoint someone and that's okay. We're just gonna talk about it. We still welcome our audience to wait in. Let us know how you feel. If you think we hit the mark, missed the mark, if you agree with somebody, if you didn't agree with somebody, we want to hear from you. Make sure you weigh in. We did have a couple of listener questions to get to today, but we did not get to them. We're gonna do it soon, y'all.
No, but one of them actually was on topic Angelo, which is around this grace period.
Although he wanted us to talk specifically about art.
Yes, the latest news, and I wonder how our conversation might change.
Well, maybe we could do about But I was gonna.
Say, maybe what we could do a g is.
I know you felt strongly about that one, So maybe you could do a straight to camera.
We could put it on social.
It's not about me, I'm interested in y'all.
Oh wow.
Anyway, Well, it would be good if we could do some of those on social as well, to keep the questions coming.
In and the comments. Y'all, We appreciate you. Until next time, Welcome home, y'all.
Native Lampard is a production of iHeart Radio and partnership with Reason Choice Media. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.