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Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
Welcome home, y'all. It is another Native Lamppod Mini Pod. I'm Angela Raie. There's Tivity Cross and Andrew Gillim and today we are going to ask an age old question, can black people be racist? I'm gonna start with Andrew.
No, you don't.
He never wants to answer new question comet.
Only because you know how like I feel like social scientists, black social scientists have like this construct of black people cannot be racist against themselves because we are not in a position of power, and racism is part of a structure that is intended to produce a certain outcome, largely one that does not include us as a part of the beneficiary of Whatever the outcomes are, it should be positive.
So social scientists tell us one way. But I guess if I were thinking about it in Layman's terms, and I was just thinking, are there attitudes that black folks can have that are negative toward one another based off of some things the way they dress, where they're from, what's side of the tracks they grew up on, what schools they went to or didn't go to. If that were the framing, I would say, yes, we can, we
can demonstrate classes and bigoted opinions. But I just I feel like I feel like I'm wrong for even saying we could be racist, because I've read so many social scientists who say it's impossible what you think? Can we be racist? In the traditional construct? Or in the one I just made up, which was basically the solitudes about.
So it's a complicated answer, right, I don't think it's yes or no. In the traditional construct, No, because there is no construct in which black people went over to Europe, kidnapped a bunch of people, raped them, beat the humanity out of them, and created this global infrastructure to produce their wealth and create a power structure where we would
have that kind of reach. So in the traditional sense, no, I do, however, think yes, there are instances in which black people can be racist in which they exercise are we I should say, we exercise our power or authority over other groups I And I've seen people say things can have racist attitudes, prejudiced attitudes about other groups of people, the Latino community, API community, indigenous community.
So the even the Arab community.
So yes, I don't know if it's racism, but I've certainly seen and heard black people in engage in hateful language. Not all, of course, you know, but pockets of Black people have said and done certain things.
I don't know. Is that racism or is that prejudice. I don't think it's racism, Okay.
I think that's there's the difference between bigotry and discrimination. Yeah, I think that that is the point. So I want to read some definitions, if that's okay.
Okay.
So Mariam Webster says, the meaning of racism is a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities, and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. I fundamentally disagree with that definition.
But that's what says.
I believe that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities, and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. That feels more supremacy than racism. About Okay, This is what I want to go to because I think that it is helpful for us sometimes to step out of an American construct. This is from the Australian Human Rights Commission. Racism is the process by which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities
and outcomes for people based on race. To me, that is racism. It is structural, it is systemic, and that means Black people cannot be racist. I think that black people can discriminate. I think that black people can be biggots. I think that black people can engage, can even like facilitating, engage in a hate crime. I don't believe that black people can be racist. I'm rolling with Australian. Maybe that's where I get my second citizenship. If this keeps going away that I think is going to.
Average go aheadage, No, I agree, but that's why we had to deconstruct it. I think all three of us agree that in the traditional construct of racism, which is to do with structures, powers, systems, in individual attitudes that influence all of it, then no, because we're not at the end where we can manipulate and shift those things.
Okay, So you know, given the fact that I think that we're basically agreeing by the definition from the Australian who got their nerve to I understand tip, I saw you telling me no not to go to Australia. But at least they have come to terms with the term right, which is better than what we can say over here. I think we regularly get in our social media feed you racist, you race baiter when we hear those kinds of terms, like what does it mean to be a
race baiter? How would you all respond to, you know, either any one of us being called a race bator?
What does it mean?
And then what do you hear when when that's dropped into your social media comments?
I get that so often. I gotta be honest. I pay no attention. I have zero interests in white folks telling me anything about my attitude on race, race relations anything.
It's just not what does it mean? Tif, I don't even know what it means.
I'm being serious.
This is a genuine what does it mean to be a ras?
I think what it means is they are hearing you say something us say something largely about a inequality that exists in the system that makes them uncomfortable, and they're basically saying, I've had my trials and tribulations. True too, and I don't blame it on race. I blame it on you know, a whole other thing before I get to race. But you all just seem to when you run up against your struggle, your hardship, your lack of a promotion, that it happened because you're black.
Yeah, and then here's so here's my question. Now, so how does that square was?
Like you guys have seen the Department of Justice Office Civil Rights has said that their new approach is going to be focused on defending white Christian men. So if race is not a factor, why would they need to defend and protect white Christian men? I mean it is that to me feels like if there was a race baiting. That to me feels like the race bait because you're.
Trying to toddler crib actually to me, Yeah, why they want to put they want to put They want to put pads on their children from the earliest possible point and a force field around them, so that anything that could cause them to think more critically about the role that their ancestors may have played and the world that we get to live in today, if it offends them, if it disrupts their sensibilities or makes them to reflect
poorly on themselves, or the choices of their ancestors. Then that is not something that we want talk to them. That is not something we want talk to anybody, because why should they have to carry a burden for something that they didn't do?
Yeah, hm, okay.
I mean, I'm not a whisperer for white folks. I just think a lot of times when I.
Sometimes it depends on the episode.
I'm not a whisperer, but I will tell you having run for governor and a state, folks are eleven percent of the population, and you've got to talk to a lot of different people. They're what they really mean. The direct speak can come out and often does in these comfortable settings where it's just like, but why does everything have to be about race? That's a good question. I have the same same goddamn question.
That is a good question, Bran.
Do don't we feel based on even when TIF articulated at the top of this around, like, we didn't go to Europe and say, Okay, well you're gonna We're gonna come and enslave you and take you over here because we feel like, based on whatever bootleg ass research we've done, that you would be better conditioned and more suitable to be enslaved. We didn't do that, but they did. And so from its very foundation, which we of course argue sixteen and we should also talk about that sixteen nineteen
versus seven teen seventy six. The since sixteen nineteen, right, that has been the posture that was absolutely about race killing the quote unquote savages which are indigenous people people from Indian country. That is absolutely based on race. So how could they argue anything different or is it just like now we're going to gaslight you in a racist history.
It's even beyond gas lighting. They have penetrated within our community. I remember watching Stephen Jackson, a former NBA player at the time that Maria Taylor, the whole ESPN debacle with Maria Taylor over. I think her name is Rachel Lindsay and Steven Jackson.
No, not Rachel Lindsay, Nichols.
Is it Rachel Nichols, Rachel Rachel's whoever?
Rachel was Rachel Nichols, Rachel and sports expert just got.
Still keep you going, I'm learning.
I got so much sports knowledge in here. Given all states, it was crowding up.
Yeah, thank you, yes, President, Right.
Stephen Jackson came out and was capin for this white woman.
And he was like, y'all know, we don't like it when it happens to us. And you know, Rachel basically should have got this job.
And I watched with such a disgust because he was equate, like these two women were the same. He was equating it like something happened to her. And number one, why do you feel like your black face and your black voice needs to be the one to come out here and defend this woman against a black woman?
The power structure was all wrong, so you up here capin to protect white.
Women because black women were privileged in this situation, Like not at all. I thought Steven Jackson looked like a clown. And so when I hear things like that, that does make me want to scream, like black people can't be racist. But when I say black, when I started the conversation was like, well, maybe black people can be racist. I'll tell y'all, I was thinking about that episode of Insecure. I don't know if y'all watch Insecure when Lisa Ray
do you okay? So Angela, you remember when Lisa was volunteering at the or doing her program after school program with the white girl and the principal was funneling only black students to get all the extra help, and she was basically like, Okay, well it's a win. But her white colleague was like, yeah, but he's intentionally leaving out the Latino students. And she's like, yeah, I get that,
but we need these numbers, we need a win. And she was saying that's racist, and she was like, black people can't be racist, and the white girl said, but you're using a position of power to deny these Latino students access to.
This, and I ain't gonna lie to me that was right. It wasn't.
The principal was in a position of power in this particular situation, as was Lisa, because she controlled the budget for the program, and she was kind She wasn't promoting it, but she was kind of okay with it the end of the episode. I mean, I can give y'all spoilers because it's been off air for a while, but the end of the episode, she realized like, you know what, No, I need to be more inclusive and I do need
to include Latino students. We had a whole different conversation going on right now because right now people are like, don't talk to me about nobody else but black people because of what happened is past election. And I have to say I struggle with that because I have always had the Fred Hampton approach, bring along everybody, and we are barely fourteen percent of the population. We can't make it without allies. So I my harm reduction is how can we protect our people black people? But also at
what point are we right? Because we could take a minute, It's fine we pissed off in see election, But at what point do we say, okay, now we need to identify allies and lock arms and work together. And I think we in the throes of figuring that out right now.
So your cape and comment, Tiffany, and it could be applied to so many other examples, but it could it be argued that his position was arguing more about from a perspective of power than one you know, Steve Jackson from the Steve Jackson or give you so I have heard, and this is my belief. I think racism runs the day up until it runs up against power. And oftentimes they are and extrictly be connected anyway, at least here
in these Americas. But I feel like people see power people who they see in power, they analyze what they think the type of graph of that person is, and when they are on their climb, they emulate that saying practice and behavior. You've ever been with a black law enforcement officer with a badge, boys in the hood. You can go to Maryland, the Maryland Moseby and the prosecution. Yeah, Freddy Gray. Absolutely. So. All I'm saying is is that
these are people. You can't say they don't like black people. They may not like black people, but but but essentially what is being carried out Wait, I am now in a position of power. Yeah.
Wait, Maryland didn't prosecute Freddy Gray.
No, no, no, no, I'm talking about I'm talking about the officers who were prosecuted by by yes, the majority of them. I think we're black, yes, correct, of those law enforcement officers. And what I'm saying is is I think that our attitudes behaviors are much more symptomatic of an illustration of power and what happens when people ascend to levels of power than it has to do with the race construct,
necessarily when the offender is largely US. I think there are models of power that the closer you get to it, and God knows if you get it, you start to replicate what you believe were the conditions that had the last guy in power. And it's through a Eurocentric model which all of us have been taught to to talk through and to to your point around you can hate yourself like a black person can hate on other black There's no doubt about that. In fact, Cartigie Woodson talks
about it in The Miseducation of the Negro. He says, and you let him to the back door, you don't have to send him. He will go because his education makes it necessary. And that's the lasting that's the lasting effect of racism is that it's been so successful that you get the people themselves to believe what you have to say about them.
It is absolutely the truth.
I would encourage people to read the Pedagogy of the Old Press to hear more about this power structure and what happens when we get into it or when we reclaim it ourselves. Of course, the biggest fear of white folks in power is that one day, when we do have the power, that we would do to them what they've done to us. So with on that note, the
resounding answer is no, we cannot be racist. Yes, we can be hateful, and let us work very hard to overcome hate, because we know that we can't drive sessful policy and hate. We can only do that with love.
So on that we.
Welcome you all home into our family. Comment on this, let us know if you agree with us where we got it wrong. Most of it was Andrew today, But we love y'all. God bless you.
Y'all will get to hear it. I'm sorry it's in the cut.
That's not true.
That's not true.
We don't do that.
We don't do that. You're welcome home, y'all.
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