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Home, y'all, this is Native Lampod and we are here for our mini pod. Joining us today is the National director for Working Families Party. Working Families had a really big week this week. We're gonna talk to Maurice Mitchell about the historic wins that they saw and some other things around our politics. So more Welcome to Native Lampod again, good brother, Yes.
Yes, Oh, it's good to be a repeat visitor to the to the pod, and it's really good to be with y'all you.
Too, brother. Welcome a big week indeed, and not just in the New York State, but really around the country. Man, I'm curious if we could probably kick off the conversation with you going down the list of highs lows, what people are to be watching, paying attention to, and we weren't as a result of this week's elections. Yeah, give us the rundown.
Yeah, I mean there's a lot to parts and you know, in some races there's still kind of votes, but you know, as it stands today, you know, we'll talk about New York. But I'm excited by the fact that in New York State we had victories in the city of Albany, the City of Syracuse, the city of Buffalo, And in Albany and Syracuse we have Sharon Owens in Syracuse and we
have Darcy a Players in Albany. They would be the first black women ever to hold those seats, right, and so we I mean, it is incredible that we were able to build a coalition around these black women. And the same money that was fighting us in New York City was fighting us in these races, right, And they represent the same politics, focusing like a laser on affordability, wanting to make the city work for working people.
So I'm excited about that. I'm also excited by the fact that.
You know, in in Georgia, a black woman was able to want run and win statewide, right, and we need to put a spotlight on that seat because you know, she was able to build a coalition that included clearly a lot of Republicans because she molliwopped her opponent. That's that's a critical win. And we know we endorsed in that race, and we're really proud of her. You know, in Detroit, a brother, Denzel mccampbell. Keep an eye on him. He ran as an outsider in city council. We endorsed him,
We supported him from the very beginning. He's going to be sitting on city council in Detroit, you know. And then there's these these very particular races that are very close to my heart because I build the Working Families Party. These are people who ran in the general election not as a Democrat against the Democrat and the Republican, as an independent Working fan These party person and they and they were able to actually win.
Right.
And so we we have a case in in New York, in New York, uh, in Newburgh, in Newport, New York City Council Ta Meeka Stewart, a black woman who ran as an independent under the Working Families Party. She will be sitting and governing in Onondaga County, that's the county where Syracuse is in. There will be a county legislator Nicole Watts, a black woman who ran and won in this election as an independent Working Families Party person. And then in Bridgeport, Connecticut, Uh, we we had a we
had a victory. Uh actually in Hartford, sorry, Hertford, Connecticut. We had a victory with with Chante Browdie. She's gonna be sitting at the Hartford Board of Education as an independent WFP candidate, where the Democrats in that in that election, the Democrats in the Board of Education all joined together to make sure that she could lead the Board of
Education as a WP independent. So you know, those are things that we're not going to hear because the story understandably has been about Zoramm Donnie in New York, and we could talk a lot about that. But in terms of like independent black politics and power a black first and doing it on our terms, there's a lot happening around the country.
That's good.
That's good.
Can I help out?
I'll ask the question. Thanks for getting us, Marie. I want to read you something. There was an article in Political this week, an interview with Steve Bannon, who is of course Trump's former strategist White House Strategists, and he has a warning for Republicans and he named checks. Yeah,
not specifically, but the WSP. He says, forget the Republican Party in New York that's a joke, but the National Republican Party and some of the artist strategists do not realize the power of the Working Families Party and the Democratic Socialists of America for ground game. Modern politics is now about engaging low propensity voters, and they clearly turn them out tonight. And this kind of and this is kind of the Trump model. This is very serious.
Now.
Unfortunately the reporter does not fact check him. This certainly is not the Trump model. Trump is copying that model from what black folks have done for decades. But a lot of our audience, quite frankly, is not familiar. They're not familiar with you, they're not familiar with Working Families Party. They don't know that this exists. So some people are tuning in saying, who is this? Why do I care about those races and states where I don't live? Why
should I care? So, how can they plug in? And what's your like thirty second elevator pitch to them, especially since you've fallen on the radar, the party has fallen on the radar of such right wing conservative extremists like Steve Bannon.
Well, you'll know me by my enemies.
And so the Working Families the Working Family Party was born in a moment in the late nineties when the Democratic Party decided to get in bed with wall Street. And that's the same Democratic Party that passed the ninety four crime Bill. That's the same Democratic Party that supported welfare reform quote unquote welfare reform that made it harder for her for a working class and poor people to access to access those services, and you know, using a
lot of racist tropes to do that. And at that time, the Working Families Party was born because many many people felt that the Democrats were portraying the base and the base, the heart of the Democratic Party base has historically been the black community, specifically working class black people. And so this multiracial coalition of grassroots organizations and labor institutions came together that was more than twenty five years ago. And what we do is we build from the grass roots up.
We recruit candidates that otherwise wouldn't run because they don't have access to money, educators, organizers, folks in unions, everyday people, and we primarily focus on the local level school boards, city council. That's the pipeline to people learn how to govern. And then eventually, like Summerly for example, that cut her teeth in the state legislature and now is in Congress. Eventually you could develop those skills of governing on the
local level and find yourself in Congress. It's that slow, steady, consistent work that is going to build a movement that could actually sustain victories for our people instead of sort of flashing the pan politics and theatrics. Look, anything that you want done, you take. Anything worth doing is going to take some work. And we've done the work to build a pathway for independent politics. I'd be remiss if
I didn't bring up Attorney General Tis James. She entered politics through the Working Families Party party in two and three because the Democratic Party didn't know what to do with the independent black woman. But we did, and she ran as an independent Working Families person in city council
in Brooklyn, and that's how she started. And eventually, once she got in you can't be in them to join them, the Democrats embraced her, and she rolls all the way to the top and was able to hold Donald Trump accountable.
So it's those politics.
If you're really serious about independent politics, if you're serious about black people governing, then you have to do the hard work of truly governing, but also of recruiting the hundreds and hundreds or thousands of volunteers to develop the skills to figure out how to use people power in order to get somebody elected and push back against the billionaires. Right Zorn's campaigns is a perfect example. They spent forty million dollars against him and they lost. They completely collapsed.
Because we have the people power, but that people power doesn't come overnight. You have to assiduously build the people power. You need to be in the community. You need to actually be organizing year round, something that unfortunately both parties have either forgotten or are never interested in doing so.
Then, how do you just just to follow up quickly on Tiffany's question, for people who are not in places where there is an active formed working families party but are really upset at being quote taken for granted or not represented, not seeing the afterthought, where could they go? Because I almost see it as somewhat of a bit of a bargain, right, if you want us, you got to come with what you're going to get us, and we'll bargain with you about where we then put our support.
Our votes are, our time, attention, volunteery, so on and so forth. So how do you equip other places of the communities with that kind of power.
Sure, So the Working Families Party isn't an organization that comes into a community. The Working Families Party is built in each community from the ground up. So if people are interested, did I would ask them just go to our website and see if there is a chapter or if there's an organizing committee in their state, and if not, and they're and they're serious, they should reach out to us and and we are down to talk.
Listen.
The the interest is really intense about building the WFP, and we're interested in building WFP everywhere. The other thing is that we have volunteer opportunities for people even in the places where we don't have staff or we don't have a chapter and people. We support people everywhere to build basically like violent what we call. You know, we don't have, uh, the the elephant or the donkey like the Democrats or the Republicans. We have the wolf and so we have our wolf packs and we support them
in places where we don't have staff. And those those wolf pasts, they were they were getting down in this election, all across the country doing work both in their in their communities and also supporting candidates around the country, and so anybody who's listening to this and they're like, yeah, I believe that people have been taken for granted by
the Democrats. I understand that the Republicans are racist, I understand that they are problematic, but if we continue doing what we've been doing, we're going to get the same results. The WFP is a viable option for people who want to do politics different but also do politics in a way that's effective and strategic. And yeah, we invite anybody to, you know, figure out how they could get down with us, and we try to make it as easy as possible based on what level of commitment people have.
Well, I want to ask you about Detroit.
When you spoke earlier, you mentioned a city council race that you are really excited about. Who did Working Families Party support in the mayoral race in Detroit?
Okay, so we didn't endorse in the mayoral race. We often focus on the places that we think we could have the most impact. I think, you know, we're pleased with the outcome of the mayoral race, but we're fairly new in Detroit, and so at the stage and the level of capacity that we have, we focused on two city council races where we felt like we could have the most impact, and that was Denzil mccampbell and Gabriella
Santiago Romero, who is currently on the city council. And so there's times where we what we don't like to do is just kind of slap our logo on a particular race or just give a paper endorsement. We like to be really hands on and provide real capacity and be the difference maker and the races that we're in and in those races we had a deep relationship, we were able to make a real difference, play a role on the independent side and also inside of the campaign.
And you know, we're always making choices like that with our capacity, with our brand, with our endorsement, how we can have the most impact. And so in Detroit, that's how we.
Show that when you all are deciding, and I know, especially for you, we talk about being a first or the only and being you know black in spaces where we have you know, critical influence. How do you all thread the needle when there's a black elected official, you know, at the top of the ticket and you're being faced with, oh, there's this particular white opponent, maybe you agree with the black elected official.
We just had this conversation on our main show as well.
But sixty seventy eighty percent of the time, but this white person with no political experience is saying that they're gonna ride with y'all.
Tell the wheels fall off. How do you make that decision?
And talk about the personal difficulty you encounter if you have any in making those types of decisions.
Sure, so, I'm very careful.
As a black man and as a black person in politics, I'm very careful and very precise as it relates to offering public critiques of black elected officials, challenging black elected officials, and I've done, but I am very careful about it because sometimes those critiques could, when.
In bad faith, could.
Could become basically venues for anti blackness, which doesn't serve
the broader agenda of black politics. And so if you hear me critique a black elected official, it has been very very considered, right, I would say, in general, when it comes to all of our endorsements, there isn't a WP endorsement that doesn't go through a very rigorous process that considers a number of things, and there isn't a WOP endorsement that doesn't fundamentally go through a lot of vetting with grass roots organizations, labor institutions, and movement organizations
on the ground in any particular city or state. And there isn't a organizing committee which is one of the bodies where we deliberate, or a state committee that where we make these decisions, where there isn't a significant presence of black folks who have been committed to black power,
and oftentimes those conversations happen. It was in real time where we talk about racial justice, we talk about what it means to challenge sitting black elected official, where we talk about how being an elective official is very different for black people than for white people, where we factor in things like experience, and what gives me the confidence to support we on Tuesday we have more than seven
hundred candidates on the ballot. It gives me the confidence to support all of our endorsements is I know that that process was done in a very rigorous way. And so that's how I hold that tension both personally because I am the party leader and I represent the party. I make sure that the things I communicate there's always a racial justice lens, and there's always a lens around
black politics. And I've demured from taking shots at sitting black elected officials because of the larger framing, and I didn't feel like there's a way to call that question that wouldn't add to a anti black pylon, even if
there was some validity to that critique. And then I've also taken those those those shots when I thought it was really important to create some contrast between the independent black politics that is rooted in the grassroots and the frankly, the bought and paid for black politics of the establishment.
Let me ask it.
Let me ask you a question, because one of the things that I've been I bring a slightly different perspective because I come from like the deep rural South, and I've noticed that there's some political policies like school choice, for example, which works in major cities, but that doesn't
necessarily work in rural areas. So my question is political movements like WFP, like, how how do you replicate the involvement you all have because we have a Working Families Party here, but it's by no and it's they're alsome. I know them all, but it's not nearly as robust as it is in major cities, and I'm pretty sure it's the same in some other areas that we were
looking at throughout the South. How do you replicate that robust effort in urban areas compared to rural areas where I dare I say the overarching majority of black folk live in the pool rural South.
That's right, That's right. Yeah, that's a great question, bro.
I mean, I think you know, we had a so we were able to leverage fusion voting in New York, Connecticut, Oregon, and in South Carolina up until so we actually had until until very recently when the Republicans outlawed fusion voting because I think they were they were frightened of of what we could build using fusion voting. But that's a
whole other conversation. But that I approached that the way that we approach at the Working Families Party is, you know, there's an amazing sister, Britney Whaley, who leads our Southeast work and is based in Atlanta and has built the Georgia Working Families Party and over the next few years is really investing in a Southern strategy for independent black politics that is going to look very different than the work that we did in New York over the past
few years, right, And so it's not so much about replicating, right, because I would never replicate the model of the New York Party with what we're doing in Georgia and what we're doing actually around the South, because a lot of that is based on the particularities of the South, the particularities of what it means to build black political power in a red state, which is just vastly different, right.
And so one of the things that we always try to do is to be nimble so that the character of that state or that locality could really embody what the WFP looks like. And I think that's the lesson from from today. From today and from election, a lot of people are talking about Zora Mamdani, and I think that's appropriate and I think there's lessons that we could glean from that. And also Zoron's race is particular to Zoron in New York, So there's both things that are
true across the country. Like, I think there's an affordability crisis that is facing working people everywhere, and that's it's a crisis of the affordability crisis is it's not just about economics, it's about dignity. And I think this is one of the reasons why people rebuked the Republicans. I also think there's a broad rebuke of trump Ism everywhere. And yeah, you know, like New York is not the
Royal South, and we shouldn't pretend that it is. And you know, the conditions of black people in rural counties in South Carolina or in Georgia, where I recently was aren't the same as the conditions of even black folks in Bedstye or Flatbush. And we do have commonalities. So I think it's kind of like a bolt and the thing.
The through line though, is that the basis of independent politics and to prize our independence and to value our political power which has been taken for granted, and to challenge the corporate politics that have captured our politics in general.
You know, unfortunately, because our politics are so expensive, elected officials are constantly dialing for dollars, and that means even the elected officials with the best intentions are dragged towards being on phones with very wealthy people and corporate packs
in order to fund their elections. And there's something fundamentally wrong with that that leads to a poor outcome, especially for working class and poor Black people, and so we need to build a different type of politics where if I'm a working class Black person in the rural South, I could run and win and I could do so and prize my independence not feel like I have to, you know, do the dance with the corporate donors. And it's something that everybody has to make a decision around.
And if we don't build that third space, then you know, we can't. I think we can, in one side, critique people for doing that dance with corporate donors and not build that third space where people could thrive without corporate money.
And so that's one of the things that we're trying to build, a third space in politics where principal people could thrive, run and win without that corporate money, without the ad PAC money, or the AI money, or the crypto money, or pharma or the real estate lobby, which is a watch in our politics at general, both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.
Well, you just brought up a pack and you posted a video recently.
I want to run that clip.
I just got a text from an organization called the National Black Empowerment fund. I just checked the website because I'm kind of a nerd al like to do my due diligence, and went on the about us page, and you know, I see two very official pictures of two very official black men. But it turns out they're anything but official. Those two men are all but and paid
for by a pack. Yeah, and the same corporate lobby that has ties with bb net and Yahoo and the ultra far right, authoritarian racist government that has pursued a war against the palest Indian people. Yeah, that APAC. Black Empowerment and the Black Agenda and APAC are like oil and water. My folks told me that you can only serve one master. There's no way you could serve APAC and the billionaires and serve the interests of black people.
That just doesn't happen. This is silly season and elections.
The people that are supporting Andrew Cuomo, the right wing agenda APAC, they're pulling out all the stops because they're desperate, including creating fake black organizations that claim to have presence in places like New York, in Atlanta and Saint Louis. This is a ploy and we're onto it, and we're more sophisticated in that, so ma.
I wanted to play that in part.
I will say that I definitely am not an APAX supporter, but I'm curious to know what what y'all relied on to make this video. You called the organization fake, You said that it's paid and bought and paid for by a pack.
I just I'm interested to hear your feedback.
And then Bakari, I love for you to talk about your experience with the group.
Yeah, we did, we did our research. There's there's no question that both of those individuals and that organization is supported and funded by the by the same sources that a PAC and its various various political packs are are supported by. And when I say fake, I want to be really clear by what I mean, because I've I've been organizing my entire life. There's a difference between First of all, that's the point of view on their flyers. That's only a point of view that people might or
might not have. But there's a difference between a organization that is an authentic black organization that is founded by and rooted in the black community, that has all types of point of view, and I've been organizing in black communities my entire life, and an astroturfh organization that's like built by you know, various interests, and there's tons of AstroTurf organizations taking different positions. This just happens to be a black one that is funded by the those those.
Lobbies in this case an So I think he was using AstroTurf and fake interchangeably that you can be real people and still not have any typicals as an organizing organization. So I think that's how I interpreted your use of the word.
I understand. I understand Bakari.
Now I'm gonna go to Andrew and ask Andrew then about his experience with this organization.
I said, joke with with Apex.
Yes, I'm because since you answered for Bacari, because I said, Bakari, can you talk about your experience?
And now, of course, oh I haven't.
I haven't answered my experience yet.
I'd be happy to share that.
But I wait, Yes, I was asking Bacari to share his experience, but I think his computer is frozen, so you might be able to go ahead.
You want me to answer for you, Bokari, I could decry it on your behalf.
I don't know what's happening and is computer may have died. Andrew, do you want to talk about Well.
I think I think your goal was to try to get someone who has had will experience. And basically what I mean, what I think I heard Bakari share earlier is he is familiar with the organization, knows Darius. I know Darius, I think all of us do. Actually who worked for APAC for a number of years. He's also someone who interfaced with my campaign when I was running for governor of the State of Florida, wanting to to to recruit me to go on a on an APEC
fronded trip to Israel, of which I did not. But I've been to Israel number of times and as mayor, had a sister sister city relationship in Ramahasharon, so didn't really feel the need to. But but Darius is a very much an organizer of African Americans serving and leadership positions, mostly elected, but and and and through journalism, through uh uh career, political so on and so forth, with a very strong strong pro israeli UH sort of positioned uh.
I don't know that I've ever heard them say that Net and Yahoo could do wrong any wrong I'm not sure that I have ever had an experience with them that didn't feel like a transaction. But I can't speak to you know, this organization, the for the for that, that that that you mentioned.
In the AD. I don't, I don't.
I don't know them, but I know at least I think Bakari shared with us that there were people who give input. Maybe uh, Angel may be a better Yeah.
I'm not better, and that's why I wanted Becari to get to it. So I'm sorry that we had a technical issue. I think it's just computer.
I went, oh, yeah, yeah, So I know Darius very well. I went on the APAC funded trip maybe like twelve years ago. I had a lot of curiosities around what was happening in the Middle East. Obviously I'd done a lot of reading of it, you know, books and articles, and so I don't think I had the sophistication at the time to understand the influence that APAC had, But
when I got to Israel, I certainly did. Uh And it was clear to me from the time I set foot on ground that the Palestinians were tantamounts of black people. That was the that felt analogous to me, they did provide a day or a part of the schedule in our day to hear directly from a Palestinian representative who shared their experience. I know Darius, I met him before I went on the trip, and yeah, Darius, he is a politician. He or a you know, a political operative.
He worked for uh cassim Read for a while in Atlanta. I mean, Darius would would very likely come on the show and answer difficult questions if that were ever an opportunity made to him. Might be good to have both of you guys on together. So I don't want to speak for Darius because I haven't talked to him in probably ten years or so, but just in terms of going on this APAC trip, it was definitely revealing to me.
I don't think I fit the mode of who they wanted to indoctrinate with APAC talking points, but I did definitely see people who were very politically ambitious be very willing to engage them on a very intimate level. That's not what I was there to do, and I had no such interest in carrying their water for them afterwards. I really was there out of intellectual curiosity and haven't had much dealings with them since SO just wanted to share.
Yeah, I thought it would be good again to just draw the distinction between a PAC and this other group, National Black Empowerment Council that now has National Black Empowerment Action Fund. I believe Bacari might be joined US now, but I don't have any dealings with them. But I was very interested.
In the trip I went.
Excuse me, I went on a congressional delegation trip with staff.
I did not go on Darius.
Yes An a pack congressional delegation trip where I got kicked off the mailing list because I cussed them out at the end of the trip.
So I just want to be very clear, this was not me going. I did not, I don't.
I don't have any dealings with National Black Empowerment Council or National Black Empowerment Action Fund, And so when I pivoted to be after Maurice talks, it was so that we could get somebody who has had dealings specifically with that organization.
Three of us went to a PAC on an APAC trip, two of us went on derress So, Bacari and I went on Darius Angela went on the Coldell and just so are listeners and audience. No, the coressional staffers go on these all the time. It wasn't like it was a special thing that Angelo into Israel and just Israel, like staffords go to China, staff like, this is a that happens.
I'm sorry.
To South America. But but Bakari, what what again? I want to make sure I'm drawing the distinction. There's a PAC and then there's the National Black Empowerment Council National.
God damn it. Sorry, y'all, we just lost Bakari again. You know what. Maybe it's the Lord, maybe.
It's but I just I was deeply curious about this tim you know, tapping into some of the things that you have stretched us on. It was it's an opportunity where there's some tension, and I want to hear the other perspective, because Bakari's had specific interaction with this organization, so MO it wasn't to like gotcha. It was like, you're like, Okay, this is my experience with this group, this is the text I got. These are the things they're saying, you know, against Mom Dannie, Yeah, go ahead.
And the other thing is like, because we all are involved in politics and there's a level of nuanced and political sophistication that I think we could have a so we could have like the real conversation.
Yeah, so like.
This organization in the final day, it's like, you know, silly season, final days, that's when you put everything out. Was able to buy urban radio, was able to flood every black voter with mail text was like, was able to flood every black.
Voter with digital.
And the messages have nothing to do with Israel, right, The same tactics use against summer Ly, the same tactics use against Corey Bush, the same tactics use against Jamal Bowman. The messages have nothing nothing to do with Israel or the actual intent of the donors right, which is to prevent progressives from governing in Congress or any place else. But the backers are aligned with the right wing agenda
of Israel and the right wing agenda of the United States. Right, and that's what is happening, right, And so you know, I don't know Darius. I'm sure he's a fine and decent person to his family and to the people that know him. And we need to have a structural analysis
of what's actually happening here. When you know that mail comes in and what is the purpose of it, you know, and so we could you know, I think, be able to like talk about individuals or relationships to them, whether or not we think they're good people or not, but also have the structural conversation of what's actually happening structurally well, And I.
Think that's what made me curious about it and why I wanted to talk about it with Bakari two, who's done who engages with this group, Because what's curious to me is when you go to their website and you go to like their action fund Instagram page, you go to their the Council's page, there's not anything that says that they're doing anything by and for a pack or with a pack. It has a very particular black bent.
Now that said, we know that there are shadow organizations propped up all the time that do some of the same work. What I'm curious about is from someone who's a colleague and family, does you know what his involvement is and what his experience has been with this group because sometimes I and I think I'm especially tender right now, I'm the most defensive of this bunch because I see what people say about us. We're democratic shields there were by Republicans were and it's all of this who paid
you to say this kind of thing? And it's like, what if that's not the case, And is there a way to get to a point of understanding despite the fact that I from the mailers I saw that you put up in the text that you put up that you receive from them is ridiculous.
Yeah, so I want to know, yes, And I think, yeah, there's levels of news that we could hold around it. And like, I appreciate this conversation because we often talk in black and right white, and we often talk and like all right, and you know who's who's a shill and who's actually for the people, and we all know that.
In fact, like there's all types of levels of nuance, and I think we could we could kind of hold some of the nuances and also not get lost in the nuance and be able to say, yeah, I'm opposed to APAX agenda and their commitment to the war of
genocide against the Palestinian people. And bb net in Yahoo and his like this is not me saying it, this is like most observers racist authoritarian government, and he's not even the most racist in his government and a PAC for sure, for sure, for sure is the American lobby
for all that, right for sure. So and if they're they happen to be there, happen to be Black people who I might share a bear with or might share community with, that are aligned with that, I'm still opposed to them, right like that, I mean, at the end of the day, Like you could be as black as anybody else and have a wrong point of view and it doesn't make you less black, but it does make your point of view wrong, at least from my perspective,
you know. And so I think we could, I think we could hold that and like it's to me, it's the same conversation with black conservatives. There's a huge difference between people who love black people who have conservative point of views and people who their main source of income is saying whatever pleases the white conservative audience online, right, Like, that's just a different and we should be able to
talk about those things. Like I share community with tons of black people who have a different point of view than me, and I recognize that that person does love life people at the end of the day. And there's people who I can't see their love for black people they share the same black skin, but they're operating differently, and and like we got to be able to talk about these things right, like, yes, there is difference, and
we don't we don't need uniformity in our community. And there's a you know, there's this, there's this like, well, I'm not I'm not trying to you know, get in anybody's bag or I'm not trying to knock anybody's hustle.
I think there's some hustles we should not.
Well, we're running a bit out of time, and I think Bacari is coming back, and I know that you have a flight that you're trying to catch. But I just want to say, out of fairness, you know, it's one thing for you to post on social media, but I just want to be really responsible with our platform. We're talking about someone that we did not reach out to to get a statement from him, to get his position. I have not talked to Darius. I think the last time was like maybe years ago. I might have sent
him a happy birthday text. So none of this is rooted in a conversation. I certainly didn't do any investigative background check into this group. We're just going based off what you said. So I think, just to be responsible to him and his partner and this organization, we should be really clear that this was just based on a
social media post that you made. It would make sense to me to offer Darius the opportunity to speak for himself and come on and answer questions himself about what their platform stands for, what their affiliation with APAK is, who funds them, If he's willing to have that conversation, I know I would certainly be willing to ask those questions just in being enherent.
And I think it's bigger than anyone individual, and certainly bigger than that brother.
And I've never met him well since we showed his picture and all of that. Like, I just I think we have to at least acknowledge that.
Yeah, I think we played. We played the social media video. And again, I'm so sorry y'all that we are having some technical difficult difficulties with Kari. Butkari has firsthand experience with the National Black Empowerment Council, and so uh he at least would be able to speak to what this
organization does. It is incorporated, it is organized Jiron Smith, who is a friend of mine, but who works in the Trump administration, is a lobbyist or has been a lobbyist for them, so they do have some organizational structure. The Action Fund is where he lobbied actually, and the Empowerment Council. Maybe Bakari can answer it now that he's on.
That would be crazy difficult, My God, Jesus help us.
Okay, go ahead, talk about your experience with black empowerment, can you hear me?
Yes?
Yes?
So first of all, yeah, First of all, I think you have to be very cautious about calling black people bought and paid for.
I mean, that's first.
I think that Darius is somebody I know very well who's done great work. And I'm just always very cautious about castigating people like that, particularly when you don't have that intimate of personal knowledge with them. It's an indictment on one's character. But even more importantly, what they're doing now, regardless of the consternation that people have about apat the work that they're doing now. The NBEC, the National Black Economic Alliance or counsel, I mean, the founders, the leadership
of that group. They actually are business people in our community trying to meet people where they are, and they actually had great success last night. I mean, if you look at the fact that they were influential and Andre Dickens influential and Mary Sheffield influential in the mayor of Buffalo, you saw that they were actually doing the work.
And I think the listen.
I think at the end of the day, the organizations who have, whether or not it's from corporate America or grassroots particularly interests of trying to get black folk collected, probably need to have more conversations than not. And so I'm sorry about my technical difficulty, but I also had to let people know that I know, I know Darius extremely well, and I just I take a back at the Bought notion and your your criticisms of founding or who people are are are very you know that they're fine.
I wouldn't hold you to account for any of your personal opinions. But also let's look at the fact that they won some races last night, and they were in places where we're able to make history. And so whether or not it's a group of people who are business folk or grassroots folk, if you're trying to get black people elected throughout the country, I think it's something that's noble.
I know if they're affiliated directly or funded by APAK.
But I'm not.
I don't they're not affiliated directly. I'm pretty sure that there are some donors who donate to a PACK and the National Black Economic Council. I wouldn't say that those things are are are, you know, diametrically opposed. But I can also say that people there are people in APAC who have the similar disdain to Bbing then Yahoo that others around this panel may have. I mean, but in regards to the individuals and the group I am, it's a it's a group of professional black folks.
That's who NBEC is. I don't.
I'm not with them. I'm not a part of them, but that's who they are. I mean, you actually have HBCU presidents that are on there, and so I just can't sit here and throw the whole organization out. When last night, as I keep saying last night, Tiffany, I'm sorry, but when this week they they helped lay the foundation and maybe not not solely, but with other grassroots organization to get people elected.
It sounds like I always love when we can qualify that, when we can qualify who won who in an election.
I always find it fascinating. Yeah, I hate that.
I hate that they are supported. They supported people who won. Of course they didn't win an election. Car.
Have you had any experience with them or the Action Fund?
I mean I know them extremely well. Yeah, like I we're friends.
I try to make sure I light on you while your internet didn't work. That's why I'm asking it, because I know I.
Don't I don't do. Uh No, I'm not a I'm not a founder or a member or anything. But I'm friends with all of them. I mean for the most part. I mean I ain't to sit here and say I'm not friends with folks.
Was everybody affiliated that you know? Have they participated in the APAC trips?
Oh?
I don't know the answer.
Okay, that's what I got to realize. I went on the first. I went on the first a Pac trip. And so when we're talking about Darius's trips, I was I was one of the people who were the first.
Darius true, because they've been doing Codell's for years.
Well the first there, yes, the first trip that was that that Darius And actually I might have gone before Darius actually became a part of the group. So I'm not sure. And I can't answer the question of whether or not people were involved in that. But what I can say is I think that there was a specific race in New York and the mayor's race that people got sideways over, and I think that there are other races around the country that you'd be surprised where we are more similar than not.
Do you know? This is my last question because I understand, well, I don't know.
I just told you went out.
I'm annoyed.
I just told you.
I just told you. Called Darius and get them on the show. That's what I just said.
Sip agrees with you.
But here's my question, because I am I'm curious about this, and you can answer it. You could say no comment, I'm wait till Darius comes on the show. I'll defer to you and Tip on that question. But here's my question. Why if their focus is electing black candidates, lifting up black leaders, what role were they playing in the New York mayor's race.
I mean, I don't think.
I mean, I'm not going to answer for Darius, but I think that there's a direct belief that democratic socialism is not best for black folks, and I mean that he literally put that on his Instagram.
Is it because Don's middle name is Kwame.
I'm pretty sure they've endorsed the black Kwami before.
I'm just like I was, but they like he black enough.
He was living in Uganda for seven years.
But I will tell you this, I can, I just tell you all this, man, I didn't.
I mean, I just I just the choices in New York for me personally, were just interesting choices between Eric Adams,
Andrew Conill and Mandani. And I just think that right now, my prayer for Zoran is that he reached out to people like Andrew Gillham, Frank Scott, Randall Wolfin, that he reached out to people like Andre Dickens, that he reach out to people who have gone through that storm, who have led major cities and who have come out on the other side with some level of success, because we need to all hope he successful, because it ain't nothing but a bunch of black folks that live up to
in New York City anyway.
That's something we all can agree out. The governing.
But the governing experiment that will be the Mam Donnie uh the Mandani administration. We need that, we need that experiment to succeed because there's two million black folks that live in New York whuld need a safer, more affordable city, a city that actually works for us, that takes seriously the black agenda.
And we haven't had that. We have not we have not had that.
The black man running for mayor was was arguably one of the worst ones for black folk.
Again, it's a beautiful, beautiful objection.
So without objection, and black people have welcomed everybody home.
MO.
We kept you way past. I hope we didn't make you lose your I'm.
Sorry, I apologize. I apologize for the disrespect of my system. I apologize for the Apple.
You need to get a new computer immediately.
All right, well give me send me, send me Apple.
It's called Apple Pay, by the way.
But anyway, he appreciates you, Maurice Mitchell from Working Families Party. You know, I got some other questions for you, but we ran out of time. Uh and Makari, thank you for coming back on AOL dial up. I'm sorry that your parents picked up your phone and interrupted your connection.
Thank you all so much.
Welcome home, welcome home, Welcome home, y'all.
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