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Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Well, welcome home everyone.
This is our mini pod. Uh, this is Native lamp Pod.
Of course, I'm your host, Angela Raie with hosts Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillham, and today we are thrilled to have a guest who's a returning guest. Actually, the last time we spoke with her was at the d NC convention over the summer.
But you were trying to I think you're trying on lipstick. Sound like big gretch or something like that.
Yep from the lit bar, shout out to Melissa Butler. We are we are here now to just welcome her back to the show. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who is a forty night governor of Michigan, thank you so much for joining us today.
Hey, it's good to be with you.
I love that boss, Lady lip color.
We love Melissa Butler, as Angela said, is a governor. You've been in the news a lot this week, and I want to kick us off with not necessarily the top story, but definitely a big story.
If I think for a lot of our listeners.
Michigan, as you well know, has more than one point five million black residents. That's more than Louisiana, more than Alabama and South Carolina. Can you talk our viewers through your decision in deciding to not endorse you are running me? Garland Gilchris is the lieutenant governor and is now running for governor of Michigan.
Yeah, well, you know what, the race for governors kicked off pretty early. I'm grateful that I have had such a phenomenal partner in Garland. He is really a star and a great leader and has been an amazing partner. You know, I know enough to know that there's a long road ahead, and he and I've had a lot of very i think honest conversations over the years, and you know, I think he if he's successful in winning
that race, he'll be a great governor. But I've also served with a lot of the people that are running, and so he and I he understands. But we've been we've been close, and I'll continue to I think be a good partner to him too.
I just want to ask the sorry and a quick follow up, So are you concerned or how concerned are you that by not endorsing your running mate and Lieutenant Governor Garland Gilchris, a black man in Michigan, How concerned are you that the Republican Party might try to use John James, who is a black man running and he could potentially be the only black person on the ticket given the sizeable population of residents who are black in your state.
Well, the end of the day, to be successful run for governor, you know, you've got to be connected to the people. You've got to be everywhere in Michigan. You've got to have a vision that creates opportunity for everyone who calls this great stay at home. And you know, I think that the leugenant governor's resume is going to be a powerful, powerful thing for him to run on.
But you know, I also know sitting governors, lieutenant governors, if you look historically, it's it's not always been an asset to have the governor have your you know, get their endorsement. You got to stand on your own two legs. And I think that's something that Garland's gonna gonna earn, and he's going to do it on his own terms.
And it can't always be I think an extension of my administration, and so I think he's after asking for council and we've been great friends and we're on this, you know, we we have an understanding here.
I am.
I'm fascinated by this too, Governor, because our good friend and brother sitting right here, Andrew Gillum ran for governor of Florida. And I remember we've known each other a long time, called each other's sibling a long time. But I remember when he was running, he was the he was not the Institution's candidate. And I'm really fascinated by this parallel of what the party does sometimes in states and how the party overall and what it does with
candidates and how it treats black people. You're seeing a lot of this happening all over the country where people are like, I'm kind of off the party.
There's a rest thing happening.
But also it's like we're going to organize, but now we're not organizing with y'all. Like all of that is kind of happening. And I'll tell you there was this tipping point for Andrew. And Andrew, I want you to tell your own story, but there's this tipping point for Andrew and the race where Andrew went to sit in as he did when he was the Florida A and M SGA president, and people were reminded by the fact that he's.
One of us, you know.
And so my point in raising any of that is when you have someone that's given their life to politics, it was a student government body president, like all of these things, going up to a gubernatorial race, and then that same party jump ship, whether it's in the form of its biggest influence, there's biggest leaders for God, say, you're on the list for you know who should run in twenty twenty eight, right, So we I'm struggling with this,
and Andrew. I'm actually instead of asking a question, I want to punt to you to ask like, how does it build and not be supported by the institution And what should a black candidate's expectations be from an institution that they've given so much to To Tip's point earlier.
Yeah, I mean, I I the governor knows this from living experience right now, in this very moment.
I know it.
Obviously having been a candidate, been loyal to the Democratic Party, but political positions are a little different than just loyalty to the party. There is an important set of decision making that goes into the governor's decision to pursue governorship reelection, especially in the wake of the kind of attacks that
met you there. But you also did something else that I think it's important to distinguish between what the Democratic Party does to a person and what happens in the process of governing, and that is you making the disc decision that of all the people in your state, of all the electors that you've worked with over your tenured and storied experience, Garland was the right person for you in the instance that you would be incapacitated or in
some way unable to fulfill your responsibilities, that this was your individual and most perfect decision to say, this is going to be the guy who I turned to and who this state turns to in that event. And so, Governor, I'd actually love't I didn't anticipate we start with the politics of your home state, but appropriate given that we've got so many michigan and listeners. But I'd love to hear from you what made you choose Garland and what
would you say best recommends him for the position. And I would argue that if any other candidate asked you, you know, for a similar answer that you could offer such. But in this instance you made the important choice of saying this is the guy if not me.
Yeah, you know so first, so say, let's not give the Democratic Party too much credit here, right, I mean, let's not assume that a party actually annoyings anyone with any great success, especially when there's a field. Lord knows. I served in the legislature for fourteen years as the minority leader. I ran for governor. There were two people who never ran for anything before. Democratic Party didn't support me.
I had to go out and earn it. And I think that that's as sometimes it doesn't feel real good, to be honest, it probably made me a better candidate going into the general election because I had to take it seriously. I had to fight for every vote. I had to show up in every community. I had to make sure that, you know, I didn't take anyone or any community for granted. And I think that's really important if you're going to be successful, especially in a state
like Michigan. It's ten million people. You know, it's a diverse state. It's the most diverse swing state in the country. We have a tendency to go back and forth. Eight years of a Democratic governor, eight years of a Republican governor. You know, I mean, you can't make any assumptions.
You know.
When I went through the process and I won that primary, and it was hard, and we had a lot of establishment people and institution who were not supporting me, I turned it on its head and I won. And then I went to go pick my lieutenant governor, and everyone wanted to tell me who they thought that person should be.
Should be this person, it should be from this side of Detroit, it should be you know, like everyone had opinions, and yet I had to find the person that was going to be a good partner who could step in if God forbid, they needed to, who I think had the same shared set of values. And you know, going through that process, I had a lot of great people from whom to choose, but Garland rose to the top because he was talented, he's young, he's got energy, He
was a great counterpoint. Has a very different lived experience than I do, which makes sure that it'll help inform better decisions.
You know.
It is part of why I appointed the most diverse cabinet in Michigan's history, part of why. You know, you look to my appointees from the bench. You know, Kira Harris Bolden, the first black woman on Michigan Supreme Court. I got to put her on the Supreme Court because we had a vacancy that was unexpected. So, you know, I take that very seriously. I think that that is
really important and really healthy. As we went through COVID, you know, I just always remind people it was because I had Garland, but also jon A. Caldoon, who was our chief medical executive, a black woman who was an er doc in the city of Detroit practicing during the pandemic, who said, when forty percent of our deaths are black Michiganders and fourteen percent of our populations, we got to intervene.
We've got work to do. And but for her leadership, others wanted to wait for studies and data which wasn't even being collected. We'd lost a whole lot more people. But because of that, we did a lot of great work. We created the Racial Sparity's Task Force, and other states emulated that. The Biden administration emulated that because it made a difference. And but for jon Ay Kaldoon having an empowered seye at the table and Garland Gilcrest, who was
the co chair of our Black Leadership Advisory Council. Black for sure, we would not have been in a position to make those important decisions that literally saved people's life.
I appreciate that, Governor, and you actually get to I think one of the underlying questions that bothered the heck out of me these days, and that's this idea that any position that you find a black person is one that had to be compromised, greased up, and pushed through,
you know, around peg as a square hole. And just in the examples that you gave your individual and personal decision to choose your replacement, and your decision and the nations and the world's moments of greatest crises to find the resolve, the skill set and the talent you needed in uh uh qualified individuals who provided that to you.
And Governor, in light of all of the attacks that we see coming legal, philosophical, but frankly spiritually, folks who had given so much sacrifice, so much finding themselves yet once again put to the back of the line weight. Wait, wait, the change is coming. I wonder how do you balance your position on and your well born experience of diversity being a great strength of where you are and in
serving the people of your state. How do you do how do you front that with this current administration in its unparalleled attacks at the institutions of the country, very specifically our universities and our governmental institutions that form the foundations of this democracy, a collection of states. And you have power to push back.
Well, one of the things you know that we did in the two years before this last election, right when I had a Democratic controlled House and Senate, the people gave us this power. We got a one seat majority in each of these chambers. But by God, we're going to use it to make sure that we're making some changes that will last a lot longer than one gubernatorial
administration and will survive one presidential administration. And you know, as I think about our codification of reproductive rights, we did that as a state, amending our constitution, but as governor, with our legislature, we got rid of all the trap laws making it harder for women to exercise their rights. We passed Pride. You know, we full of civil rights protections for the LGBTQ plus community. We passed the Crown Act. We're feeding one point four million Michigan kids breakfast and
lunch every single day in our schools. We made community college free for every high school graduate. You know, we've been living our values and codifying things because we knew there's a possibility of an upcoming election that might want to try to roll a lot of these protections back. We will continue to live our values no matter who's in the White House, but especially right now, I think it's important for people to see, like, this is why
we did this work in those two years. This is what we are going to lean on to make sure that Michigan continues to move forward instead of rolled back. And I'm fortunate I got a great Attorney General and Secretary of State who are continuing to do their job in the wake of a lot of the chaos that we're seeing coming out of Washington, d C. But make no mistake, this is a serious, scary time for a
lot of folks. And when I go to Washington, d C, you know, it's a recognition that, yeah, I got this administration, but I got people who need help in Michigan, and no matter who's there, I got a duty to try to get that help.
So I'm at Governor you know you we're just in DC, and of course there's this viral moment here. Let me just reenact, right, and so so my my question for you is why, right, like, we spent a hey dog, tiff is happy, look at.
Him, lucky physical dog, make a.
Cameo before the interviews over.
But I want, okay, like the dog is gonna be special.
Kevin and Doug they're going outside anyway, Sorry, go ahead, but.
On this you know you you went to go pet that dog in DC, and so.
I just want to know why, Governor Whitmer.
We spent all election cycle telling people that this was a fascist coming into the White House. We have documented reasons for We're in the middle of a constitutional crisis. They don't want to return kilmar Abrego Garcia And you're talking about having to do the business of the people. But how are we even going to get things done for the people with the people in power that we have at the you know, at the at the federal levels.
How are you justifying this visit and what are you saying to people besides I'm here on business and you don't need to see me do that, Like, what is the reason? Tell me why you would go and how that squares with the narrative. And I believe the truth of what we said leading up to November.
Sure, you know, I worked hard to like Camell Harris right, like I worked my tail off. I did it, not just in the state of Michigan. I went everywhere and anywhere they asked me to go because I knew how hi the six where. I also knew it was going to be a really close election. I was worried about it. And you know, when when the dust settled, we ended up having you know, two weeks ago had a terrible ice storm here in Michigan. I mean an ice storm where we had an inch and a half of ice
on trees. It snapped them in half. I still were sixteen days out, got fifty five hundred people that don't have power have I had power for sixteen days in rural parts of Michigan, people that don't have a whole lot to begin with, who are struggling to get by or living on floors in churches because they need power. And so this historic storm meant we're going to need help. And I don't know what they've done with FEMA, and I don't know what they're planning to do, but I
had to go and ask for that help. While I was there, I was lobbying for Selfridge Air National Guard Base, which is in Macomb County, Michigan. You know, every four years everyone says, what's going on in Michigan. How do you win to state like Michigan. You want to say like Michigan because you show up and you fight for people. This air base that we are focused on is good paying jobs in southeast Michigan, which you're familiar enough with
my state to know. You know, the population in Southeast Michigan. This is good paying jobs. It's so important for economy.
You know.
I have a duty to try. Maybe I'm not going to be successful. Maybe I will get roasted on social media, maybe my own kids will be roasting me, right, And it is easy. Yeah, of course it is, you know, and and it's so I'll be honest with you. I hate that. But I have a duty to try. And if I fail, fine, But if I don't even try and people are suffering in Michigan, well then I shouldn't be in this job in the first place.
I gotta know what the keys are saying. Hold on, Deandrew, I got to what did they say?
There are some of the same question why he's probably not going to help you. He might not, but I gotta try. He said some of the things that I was hoping to hear, and maybe that yields something good for Michigan. But when the Missig people in Michigan are hurting, my job is to try to do everything I can to help.
Why personally, you appreciate that the folder the folder covering.
I wish I hadn't done that. You know, The point is I didn't sign up for that press conference. I could tell him exactly and all the deals that were signed. I was beside myself and the rhetoric on top of it. And there's a picture of me in the paper too, where I'm writing something down. I'm writing the press release that I know I got to put out as soon as I walk out of that room, saying I didn't have expective any part of that. But yeah, I mean, I wish, I wish I could go back in time,
but I can't. So I'm going to say, well, if.
You did go back in time, because I think Tiff was probably going to take you here, which was what is the story. It seems you went, and I've got to say I don't take exception. I know what it means to be a leader of a party. I know what it means to be a candidate for office, and as a mayor. I know what it means to govern. And when you're governing and your citizens are sending their hard earned tax dollars to Washington, d C. With the hope of it coming back and being of service to them,
you got to do what is required. And I think one of the things that we also need to see simultaneously is that your values stay a front and center and that you don't come out singing an awful tune because the dance, you know, master decided that that's what you got a dance to. Tiffany, I'm sorry.
I just wanted to make the point that I mean, it was highly covered that you were not there to participate in that you were, you know, against your will, almost ushered into the Oval Office press conference and you didn't know you were here. You told the Economic Club in DC this week. I didn't want my picture take
and that was all I kind of wished. I hadn't put my folder in front of my face, But whatever, you know, I was there I just wrote a book about learning to laugh at yourself, so I'm pretty good at We all have our.
Moments that first.
But you also penned a letter to Donald Trump saying that you look forward to working together, and you praise the support for the auto industry, which this week the UAW writ in your state also echoed those sentiments while also being critical of him. And I just want you to know I do appreciate the complex situation because at a time when there were adults in the GOP party, that was a sense of normalcy. In these times, there
is no GOP. I think we have to acknowledge that there are right wing extremists who are members of a Maga cult running this party. I'm curious how you stripe the balance of fighting for the people of Michigan but also not allowing yourself to be you used for a nefarious photo with someone who's quite frankly unhinged and politically in its.
So I guess I would say this. You know, during COVID, I fought the Trump administration because michiganers were dying and they weren't doing what I think needed to be done, just to keep people safe and protect people and give them good information, get the masks and gloves that we needed. You know, nothing's changed. But you know, my job is to fight for the people in Michigan, and I'm going to do that no matter who is in the White House. I'm there fighting for funds to help people who are
suffering in northern Michigan because of this ice storm. I'm fighting there. I'm there to fight for jobs for Selfridge. Nothing's changed in terms of my values. Nothing's changed in terms of the things that I care about and the people that I fight for. And yeah, you know I got people threatening to kill me during COVID, Yes, and now I got people mocking me or roasting hands on social media. Fine, take all the shots you want at me,
but I am going to show up for Michigan. And I'm never going to apologize for showing up for Michigan. But it does not mean that I subscribe to any of the other stuff that was coming out of that room that day. And I hope to make that clear. I hope I've made that clear. I'll probably have to continue to try to make that clear. But nothing's changed. You know, my job is to show up for Michigan. And when people are hurting. I got to do everything I can to help Angela.
And you're saying nothing's changed, but you know, I feel like every but yet everything has. We're asking people to show up abnormally and abnormal times. You experienced abnormal long before twenty twenty five, with you know, the threat you're talking about, people threatening to kill you, people.
Trying to have an entire kidnapping plot.
Now the kidnappers, the election deniers, the federal program slashers, they are now running the administration.
So even in your.
Advocacy of Michigan, right, what does your different you're abnormal? You're meeting them all look like, well.
I first I'll say this, you know, fool me once, shame on you, But that's not going to happen again. I can tell you that much. You know, as I as I look at the work that we have to do here in Michigan, you know that's why I talked a little bit about those two years, these last two years leading up to this moment, all the work that we did to protect people, to build in those structures. I'm really worried about what cost cuts to medicate are
going to mean. I'm really worried about you know, our ability to help people who are who are struggling to level the playing field. You know, we've got to build housing all across this country. We know that affordable housing is there's a dearth of it, and yet all of the potential things coming out of out of the Washington d C could undermine that. And so we're trying to work creatively how can we address this if this happens
at the federal level. But it's exhausting because you can't predict what the next thing coming out of Washington is going to be. I'm really hoped that at some point we see some courage out of the GOP members in Congress to say, Okay, guess what next year's coming up? Fast? And if they continue to impose tariffs that run people out of work or run up our grocery bills, if they continue to strip healthcare away from a million people who are on it because of Medicaid expansion in Michigan,
that's going to have real impacts. But the things that we've done to help people keep money in their pockets, the Working Family's Tax Credit, we quintupled the e C so that people were working but couldn't make ends meet, have got more support. We got rid of the retirement tax, so that retired Michiganers who didn't pay tax until about ten years ago and had their rules changed on them now get to keep those dollars. We got the first
auto plant in Detroit in thirty years done. That's thirty six thousand good pan auto jobs.
And governor all those jobs, those auto because we all know how significant the building of those cars in this country are. Some of us probably underestimated what the component parts are that are required for that assemblage and the fact that those component pieces come from all over the globe. You were in a very unique position given you are geographic proximity to Canada, the President refers to as the fifty first state. But as a sovereign nation, independent nation,
you have to have a spiritual character. I have to imagine as the governor of Michigan with officials across Canada's the Canadian government for the sustainability of the relationship that you get. That's so important. I have to imagine if you've seen Trump once or twice since he's been in the Oval office, that Trump's that Trump's self imposed, self inflicted or using taxation and trade policy is going to have some pretty devastating effects for the for where you live.
What was that conversation with the president? Like, what are you demanding of them? In what ways are you prepared to act with the fullness that comes with the true Michigander and demanding that this president come to heal on the devastating impacts to your state.
Well, listen, I've been talking to the autos, I've been talking to labor, I've been talking to all the Tier two brief suppliers. There are so many small businesses that, you know, are our the biggest employer in like a little community that are on the bubble. We know that the big three already have got a lot of decks stacked against them right when it comes to you know, China undermining our auto markets, when it comes to you know,
I think counterfeit parts that are coming in. We know how hard this this moment is, and yet what's happening in d C with these tariffs are making it even more difficult. I'm very worried about it. Michigan's economy absolutely counts on that free trade with that you know that with Canada and Mexico, so many of these car parts go back and forth multiple times, and with these indiscriminate,
you know, terrify ideas. These taxes, the Trump taxes that are threatened on all these going to put people out of work, and it's going to drive up the costs of an automobile as well as blueberries from Mexico, et cetera.
And the interesting thing is, you know, as I talk to Canadian leaders, you know, there's a real sense of hurt on top of anger, and they've really unified against America, which it just is mind boggling to even think that Canadians sent firefighters to California when La was on fire. You know, these are our neighbors and our friends, but they feel hurt by this. They're like, why, all of a sudden are we considered adversaries when we've been like second cousins, you know. And so I do think that
it's a really dangerous moment with these capricious tariffs. All it will do is paralyze business, which means layoffs, which means increased cost on Americans. And that's that's what I've been trying to convey. I obviously haven't been able to convince them, but there's a lot of folks in their ears from Wall Street to downtown Detroit, saying this is bad policy for American manufacturing, for American jobs, and American.
Consumers miss this special moment.
It's not me, the dog clearly has something to say, and I just don't want to silence anybody. But anyway, but their answer on terrace is a bit interesting, Governor, because a little bit of daylight between you and the head of UAW on that that I think we'll see to continue to play out. As you know, we all have grave concerns about free and fair elections. We can argue that there's never really been free in fair elections, but increasingly it will be more challenging as we look ahead.
I'm one who's not holding my breain for midterms. You reference, you know that the GOP members, the members of the mega cult in Congress might somehow get some courage.
I'm not holding my breast for that.
But for the people who are looking forward to twenty twenty eight, I'm curious what kind of things are you considering, What are you factoring and to your decision making as you ponder a twenty twenty eight run. Your name has obviously come up the past election cycle, and as people look forward to this election cycle.
What do you considering if you make that decision.
Well, you know, I'm not spending any time pondering a run for twenty twenty eight. I'll just be honest with you. I got my hands full in this job. I am governor for the next year and eight months, and then I'm going to go walk the earth for a little while with my husband and dogs and reconnect and figure out what i want to do next. But you know, we need a great, strong candidate for twenty twenty eight. And it doesn't have to be me. It could be.
There's a lot of wonderfully talented people out there. I want to be a part of helping whomever that person is. But I think when my term comes to a close, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a little break.
Well, speaking of breaks, I know we're running up on time.
But she wants to dog the dog come here, Keaven, Heaven, come here.
I got Heaven and Kevin gon o maiden names.
Okay, ken.
Is he a he's a dode all So we got r you have big old.
Dog has something to say about her?
Wait wait, big wretch got a big dog.
This is Dougie dog.
The name of this episode is Big Wretch with the big dogs.
But you gotta make a gotta make a special dog.
He's given.
Lord, not in the mouth, don't do it. Okay, Well, well big Wretch got big appointments from.
Here, yes, Governor, before you, before you go. And I have not been admonished to do this by your lieutenant Governor. But I remember when I was running in my primary, I would have to come upon places where I would have to understand the political calculus that's being made. And I would often tell those people, or asked rather of those people, if you can't help me, and in this situation,
I hear you, then just don't hurt me. And that was a way of finding I think, partnership where I could and places where I was going to be running the toughest race that I had ever faced, and of all the headwinds coming at me, I didn't need my closest to be one of them. And so that's my brotherly requests on his behald, thank you for for taking time of being with us too.
I hear you know what. We won Michigan twice, by almost double digits the first time and over double digits a second time, so that's a good place to run for well.
Tell Kevin and Doug Tiffany said by and we appreciate you, Governor, thank you for the time. For everybody else, make sure you subscribe to Native Lampod on YouTube and tune in wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome home, y'all, Welcome home.
Take care of Governor, Thank you, take care.
I cannot believe you had our lift up.
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