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Well come, well come, well come, well come, well come, welcome.
Welcome home, y'all. It has been such a great, fruitful week of discussion here on Native Land Pod. And so I know, if you listen to our main episode, we said that we were going to talk about leadership styles, and then we got into a discussion on the whole black men black women dynamic. And I don't know, I feel like these two conversations somewhat intersect. You all correct
me if you think I'm wrong. But we had Cornell Belter on a polster, a brilliant poster who runs a brilliant corner strategy, and he was on with Gabrielle Wyatt and they had done his really interesting poll about black women, and Andrew, you made a really good point about well wait a second, like I hear in the Cornell's point about black women center community, but you gave a shout out like, let me just say, black men were leading until policies harm them, and you know they were still
even after that. Black men were leading, but policies eliminated a lot of black men. And so that's where we look up.
I mean, I think I appreciate that, and great summary again to if it really wasn't to rebut what was stated. I just think we have to do a more deliberate job at contextualizing why a thing is a thing, Like we didn't just wake up one day and black men disappeared themselves from our neighborhoods. And you know, I think my granddaddy, my mom's dad, who my grandmother was a housemaker, raised eighteen headed children, my mother being the eight the
last of them. My granddaddy who ran a gas station and did lawn maintenance on the weekends, and together in partnership, not before women were leading, but rather in partnership, they were leading a household and building neighborhood and community. And men didn't just black men and just wake up one day and say I'm done with that, I'm tired of it. Right, there always been trifling folks. Right, Papa was a rolling stone. I remember the lyrics from that before I even knew
what any of that, you know meant. So I'm not I'm not repaying.
He left alone l O n or alone, like he took out alone and left it to us, nah Lord.
But I was alone. I just think the threat that we represented as a structure, as a as a as a image to be revered was so such an intimidation to the structure that existed that these folks had to develop deeply seeded plans to create what industries. Industries principally focused on breaking up that part partnership and not just
the marriage partnership. I just mean as black men and black women who were modeling, not always perfectly, we have our issues, but who were modeling what it meant in that pole we saw earlier in the episode, the black women were prioritizing fairness. They put fairness above DEI when it came to priorities. I just want to be treated fairly in this place that they developed these structures that has bastardized fairness, has bastardized us being in these places.
And then did some jiu jitsu to make what is our strength and their weakness their biggest strength coming after us about don't even earn it when the truth is your children aren't getting into the colleges that you want them into. Your daughters and sons are not coming home and sleeping on the couches, and you want them out and the lie that you have said that you are better than everyone else on your worst day is coming home to roost that it was always a lie. Now
they're competing with us. Now they're learning what it means to try to earn a slide, even though all the structures have been built and designed for their angrandizement and advancement. And so what do they do. They say, let's get rid of hey, take all the diversity, all the inclusion, and then my son and my daughter will get back to their rightful place in society. Or if there was, if that, if if that ain't didn't earn it, I don't know what it is.
Yeah, everything you said, Andrew, I mean I completely echo that. And you know the point I made in the episode that dropped earlier this week is it is we We are a hurt people. We are carrying so much pain around, generational pain. Our time in this country, you know, was started in strife, and you know it's taught us to love just a little bit because our love was a weapon. And if I birth this child, I'm nursing this child, I'm caring for this child, and I know at any
minute you can snatch this baby from me. And sell my child off while I'm raising your kids. That teaches me I gotta love a little bit if you a man. And it's like, I love this woman. This is my wife. We have a family here, and I know at any minute this white man could come along and rape her and impregnate her. I can only love her a little bit. We are carrying that level of pain with us. We've
never really had a collective healing. So that's why when I hear some of these asinine comments coming from some of these podcast bros. And you know some of this very toxic space in the community, I do. I have a lot of frustration and a lot of hurt because my brother, I'm not your enemy. Let's keep in mind who the enemy is. But I also have care. I have a little I gotta care about you from a distance.
I can't always engage people who appear to hate me, but I do have to consider this has come from a place of trauma, and so to me, if we are turning black love into a weapon, you know that people can't stop and celebrate black women and what we do. And as black women, like, we're holding your pain and everybody else's pain because we see what the state is doing to you, because the state is doing it to us. Because when it happens to you, it happens to us, we feel it.
I would suggest Tiffany also that some of the herd that is being expressed, and quite frankly righteous frustration with the fact that the only time you're talked about is in proximity to a black woman or as opposed to a black woman, that just as black women exist as individuals, their joy can rise and fall all on its own.
There.
What do you mean? And what I mean by that is my frustration that I am experiencing right in this very moment about the systems that have colluded to knock us down at every opportunity us. But I'm speaking very specifically about black men here, not in juxtaposition to black women. Is a terror all on its own, without ever factoring in what my romantic relationship is. Who I've hurt in that because white men have toxic behaviors, and white women do too, and so do black women and so on
and so forth. I'm saying, when the hurt comes, or what you interpret is hurt, might be really just righteous indignation about a fucked up system that is weighing on me absent what it's doing to a black woman, and even that men black men are allowed to have these emotions without it being in juxtaposition to how they were treated, who they dated, what happened in that dating experience, but as individual humans being able to experience a fierce and
emotion that ain't got nothing to do with the women or men that we may date.
Wow, you might have been too deep for me there, because I'm thinking about that, and it's true. When I think about black men, I do often think through the lens of black women. I think of the woman who raised you. I think of your counterpart, you know who you're attached to. Yeah, Angela what.
I just wanted to remind you all that even though I need to get out of my hotel room, I am still here. So I was like, I would tell me in, tell me in. This is a good contraction for it. I'm trying to do better than Andrew be.
Like yo yo, hey hey yeah yeah yeah, but no bro jump in.
No, it's it's so it's so good and it's it's funny tip because I don't know where it comes from, but I feel like we talk about it a lot, especially in our friend group, I feel really protective of black men, like really protective of black men. I think some of it is the relationship with my dad, Like even growing up, there would be he's all black men.
I don't. I don't think.
For yeah, for sure, for sure.
Because because I don't know, because I've heard you like really go after some black men who you just don't feel like represent. You know, I experienced.
Huci. I'm not feel like protective of Clarence, Uncle Clarence.
I'm not talking about him.
It's definitely to.
Protect and to fa I think there are some men but I've also heard with which we disagree on. I don't want to raise it again because I don't want it to get but I'm just saying, if you don't, well, but this is the one I'm thinking about. Like you, we were talking about black men and you were like very protective of like Charlemagne for example. But like when after plies, like you don't, so I wonder, like after.
Plies, I feel like I have questions come on the podcast. I don't feel like I can't because now we're in this so let me just stay here for a moment to make sure it's really clear. I don't have an issue with Plies. I've said he should come on the podcast. I think that it is interesting how he chooses to show up and win. But if he wants to be a social media influencer, I support it, right, I think that, But I don't feel anything to applies. Like you know,
he welcome to state to the people. He can write a black paper if you got them to say. But I do want him to, if he's comfortable with it, to blend more with who he actually is and the persona is it. And I think I would say that about anybody. I love authenticity and so you and I think that's the main thing. So if there was a criticism, it would just be that. But I respected a brother. Okay, so sorry, I don't know what moment.
Go back to. I didn't mean best of it.
I think like I think, one of the things I love most about our show is we give each other the space to work through out loud, our hypocrisies and our blind spots. So I think if there's a blind spot called me on it, my blind spot is defending the Brothers, and I will definitely do that, I think to a fault. So yeah, I was saying I was wondering where it was coming from and kind of wrestling with that. I think a lot of it has to do with my dad. I'm definitely a daddy's girl. I
love my mama, but I'm definitely a daddy's girl. And I feel like my mom is more discerning and intuitive. And I think that that is a natural thing that black women have, Like we can see the thing before it's coming, and y'all just ain't got it. So I'm having a look out for y'all, like, don't cross that street right there is a car coming both ways. And I think that that's happened with what'd.
You say, we got a different skill set? Yeah you do.
Andrew leaves his phone eighty thousand times in one days, stressful and the and one in the same. My dad is like that with human beings. You know, it could be somebody who just stabbed him in the back and he's like, oh, you can have my last dollar.
And I'm like, no, forget too.
So I think there's a natural protection. And I'm like that about all my friends and loved ones, but it's especially true for black men. It is especially true because I'm just like, I don't know if they see the same tip. I know you discerning and peeping the scene. I just I love y'all, but I'll be concerned. So I do think that that is that that's true, and we don't ask for you never asked for it. I'm so sorry natural disposition to do this.
Good luck.
You can tell me you don't need it, and I'll try to fall back.
There are times where I don't see things, you know. There are times where we've been on stage together and I'm starting to say this and you're like, okay, Dad, like let's go this way, and I don't know why. I'm just like, okay, well, I'm not gonna say it right now, but you'll tell me later. Like there's like we all see things for each other. But I definitely think you have like almost anxiety around the people that you care about, to like I'm a leap frog ahead
and stop this thing from happening. But sometimes you can't, you know, like you sometimes people gotta fall, sometimes people gotta get burned. So I haven't experienced it that you are protective of black men more than you are of black women. I think you I would describe you as somebody who is protective.
Yeah, people are hyper there. There's some hyper vigilance curious.
I'm not a black man, so maybe I haven't experienced that.
Of course I've experienced it. And what I would say is, I think you are you are a justice. You are you, you pursue justice. You were fully aware of the narrative that black men didn't earn but often hit with. And I think as part of your default disposition is you're not going to contribute to the continuation of that kind of abuse. So you're like, Okay, leve Ever, I know what you read, I know what you heard, but let's set the table again. Let's give this thing a chance.
And I definitely feel like you have it more towards black men. I guess what I would caution is, yeah, some things do need to play out, period. But similar to how I set a couple of weeks ago that I think we sometimes coddle too much in the electoral process.
Those who are confronted with economic horsship and da da da da da, and all the reasons why it is that they could give as to why they choose not to vote or participate in the process or to go you know, the extra And I'm not making I'm not accusing anybody, but the point was to say we have to treat everybody with the same expectation that if you
want this thing, you got to go get it. And when you remove the incentive or less than the incentive for the person to have to show up on their own to do a thing, so that you can walk away with an impression about them that they either they go get us or they not. They hit us or they not, they're you know, or in this moment, they're those things. And the the the intention to make the way just a little bit easier. And some instances could
be the harm. I don't mean that. I don't. I don't mean when I say in some itsys to be the harm. It could be keeping someone from the thing that they absolutely needed to go through to get to the next thing.
Okay, but there's.
And by the way, Angela, I don't I don't mean this as a as a criticism of you. Actually both ways for men and okay, for both men and women who predict because I'm a very protective person as well, and I think sometimes, like you know what, they may need it to have gone through that thing by doing it their way, and it doesn't mean, their way would have caused them collapse and fall on their face. Their way could have taught me a new way, but we will never know whether their way could have worked.
I'm curious Angela your response, because I I'm maintained. I do know, but you know now that you're saying this, I do notice a difference between me and Andrew, but I never put it in the category of men and women. I put it in the category of Andrew is going to lose his phone, He's going Andrew is used to having staff around him take care of everything. So Angela's like, did you get this? Did you get that? Do you do that? That is what Andrew. That's her way of
protecting Andrew. But I don't feel less protected by you, Like I still feel like if anything is happening, like you're gonna say something, if I'm saying something that you don't want me to say, I feel like you are right there. You're just a protective person.
I hear you.
Though maybe it's defensive then, like I think that they're and I don't want to center me in this because I think that the bottom line is there are some experiences that black men have had in this country and therefore, so have black women. But this is about to get it to bolve us, and it's a mess. I'm to be really honest, I don't believe all women. I don't. I don't believe women, especially when black men have been on the receiving end of harm that has caused them
a violent death in this country. I still don't believe all women. I think that the experience around, you know, just the appearance of someone and perceiving that they are, you know, threatening innately. And my disposition is to naturally say, hey, brother, how you doing to make sure people know that he's safe. And that's not cool either, because we shouldn't have to
require that of them, you know that. Like even in my professional development program, we get so many young women men, so many young women who apply, and I find myself kind of catering to the young men to make sure they're herd because there's only a few of them, and I want to make sure they go back and tell
their friends to come back around. So I don't know what that is, but there's something about making sure when they did beat the stereotype, when they when they do deserve a chance, that we just give it.
Yeah, I guess protective or and I don't think that's centering you because so many women feel like, like what you're saying, I think you're representing a lot of women. And I don't think as Black women we have the privilege of believing all women because on our side of the gender divide, it's one of the most dangerous predators,
and that is white women. If you go through the EJI, the Equal Justice Initiative in Montgomery, Alabama, and this is one of the largest hallowed grounds, comprehensive memorial dedicated to people who were terrorized by slavery and who were lynched during a certain time period. Ninety percent of the reason behind the lynchings is white women. Somebody said, he whistled at me. Somebody said, like emmettil was not singular.
It was.
It wasn't an anomaly, it was the common thing. So no, I think because again we carry that trauma in pain with our brothers, you know, journalists and anti lynching crusader I to be Wells noted in her eighteen ninety two pamphlet Southern Horrors that one third of the charges against black men were for the rape of white women, and investigations found that most of those relationships were consensual. So yeah, we just we can't do that.
You know.
Now, Somewhere in that journey we lost our way, I have to say, and in our effort to protect black men, we forgot to protect ourselves and some of us. I would argue for God to protect black women because there are quite frankly black women who are harmed by black men. And when I hear these comments about some of the people in the limelight, I will start with just say R Kelly, when I heard people say, well, should he
be in jail for all that? And please them? Little girls look grown and they knew what they were doing and where the parents? Like that breaks my heart because we're talking about it completely. I know you're not. But when I some of these comments are from black women, and I'm looking at this, like you given this girl, this baby girl less grace, but you have it all for R.
Kelly.
So somewhere, but I don't know.
Society makes that the permission structure, like like, like, consider how those women then grew up and that if I had to demonize my daddy, yes, bad things to me, but also bought me some of the happiest Christmases. I ever had or you know, express love to me in a way that I knew heat stand in front of a bullet and take it. So, you know, it's so complex, and it's so nuanced, and where this stuff and comes out of y'all is so it's so deep, and it
does it deserve a further enveloping. But I will just you know, Baby Boy is one of my least favorite movies ever in the world. My wife loves it. I know a lot of women who love it. I mean, you couldn't pay me to sit down and love the actors. You can't pay this down and watch it. Because I think we have to do better for each other. But I also think we have to do better. I got to do better as Andrew Gillum. I got to do better as a black man. I have to do better
as a father. I have to do better. And all of those things can be a requirement of me that I put on myself that are without regard to all the other influences women who I'm married to, what I'm doing, da da da da have to you know, have going on in my life. The man that had to watch his woman be raped by Massa and see an illegitimate son. His biggest anger probably had to resided with the fact that he couldn't protect her, not even the porogeny that
flowed from that. But Yeah, the thing that you feel most innately that you're responsible for, you feel it without ever being told, is to protect. And that you can't protect, there's a shame that comes over you. You know that. I know we got a rap bud.
Yeah, well, but I just you say what that comes out of and what I think that comes out of, because anecdotally, we will ask a baby girl to who endure sexual abuse to shoulder the pain of her abuser for sure, because and what that comes from is so anecdotally, and our families will say, Okay, this happens. So now we got to keep this baby away from the uncle
who touched her. Why Because as sick and as subhuman as it is to abuse a child, black people know that the white invented criminal justice system, constructed from slavery in cites a cruelty beyond even our imagination. So our thing is, we are going to protect this child, We're gonna keep this man away, and we're gonna keep it all out of the hands of white folks because this man is messed up here, and we were gonna handle our justice our way, but we still not gonna turn
him over to y'all. And this baby girl is gonna be safer in my arms and we not gonna turn her over to y'all. That is what that pain is born out of. Yeah, and that's a scary thing. So somehow we gotta come that's not the system is fucked up that we can't keep living on that system. So somehow we have to come together. I just want to thank y'all for just sharing this honesty, because that's the real. I mean, some people, a lot of people feel how
Angelou do. I feel, well, how Angela does. But not everybody's brave enough to say I don't believe all women.
I can't believe all women. Some people are afraid of, you know, the mostly white feminist mafia to jump out there and say a truth, and some people don't have the nuance andrew to say what you're saying and about well, wait a second, let me just stand up here and say something on behalf of black men, and it is not always in proximity to a black woman, like we have a right to exist within our own skin So these are the type of conversations that you can enjoy
every week on Native Podcast, and this is why we ask you please tell a friend, please subscribe, but please be sure to listen. These mini pods drop every Friday. Our main episodes drop Thursday. You can also check out the solo pods with Angela and Andrew Somedays y'all. I don't know Mondays and Tuesdays, so you know, we do have pods.
Sometimes we do have sometimes I was supposed to have one. Wait. Nick was like, okay, we're doing I was like, yeah, absolutely, here comes to me yesterday. I can't do it today. I just can't do it today.
And you deserve it. You don't have to apologize. You deserve that rest. You've been killing yourself with this tour and you chose for I hope anyway that you chose to rest, doing well, whatever, whatever it was. I hope that you were doing something that brought you joy, because you deserve that. Okay, I want.
So deep and there ain't nothing you can do about it.
We love you back, I love this and I love our conversations that y'all can see are not filtered. We said, we need you know what I was thinking.
About you were talking about you said you said you're not you did say you were protective, But I was thinking about that time when Andrew was trying to say some crazy ish he shouldn't say on the podcast yes, and we were like, no, no, no, no, what you mean to say is what.
Hood's at home everybody, And I was like, this.
Is not doing what you bigg's doing. Okay, Nick's on camera telling us we gotta go at home, but Nick's face is right here going to get out. So we are gonna on that note say welcome home, y'all, and we will see you back here next week. Tell a friend, thank you, everybody Happy jeen Native Land Pod is the production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows