Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with Reason Choice Media. Welcome, Welcome to our mini pod. You all.
It's been a very interesting week for us.
I think some of us are hovering somewhere between grief and blind rage after the midterm election results. I don't think there were any overwhelming, overwhelming yes in the war.
But I'm just gonna be honest with y'all.
I am deepening into the election results right now, and my heart and prayers go out to everyone who has family members who are being impacted by everything that's going on in the Middle East East and has been for some time.
You know.
First, I want to start somewhere positive. We didn't do this in the mainho y'all. Reverend Doctor Frederick Douglas Haynes did win the primary Jasmine Crockett's old seat, and I'm starting there because I'm about to hit a quick pivot.
Linay girl.
The people who were online saying, and I think we have some of those tweets that were online saying like, well, at least now there's a real progressive in the seat. I just want to tell everyone, for those who don't know that Reverend Doctor Frederick Douglas Haynes of Friendship West in Dallas also happens to be Jasmin Crocketts pastor and one of her closest and dearest advisors. So there's not a lot of light between their two positions. In fact,
they supported each other in these primaries. So I just I wanted to start there, And I also want to say what has been so frustrating to me the text.
That I was getting on the.
Side like well you talk to James, you know, having to be very clear about the sisterhood I have with Jasmine. I just don't understand why some of what happened occurred. Andrew, I thought we left it behind in twenty eighteen, and you're a primary race, you know. So I just I want to talk about some of this. Linnee, you found yourself in the crosshairs. I would love for you to explain our audience some of what you experienced being the
unnamed interviewee who's a very popular viral interviewer. You had an interview with the Jasmine and I'd love for you to talk about some of what happened.
Yeah, So I had an interview with Jasmine in December of last year. Yeah, this was right after a clip has started circulating about her. She was given a response on the United States relationship with Israel, and the way that it.
Was cut it.
Engendered a bunch of conversation alone about whether or not she was paid by APAK, whether she was a blanket Sionist, and so that took up the crux of our conversation, and there was one question that I had in particular. First, I'll say that I did think that Jasmin had accept
the APAC money and I was incorrected about that. So we cleared up that to just make sure, like people understod that she wasn't compromised financially by this organization or whatever to be given the answer she was given about
her thoughts on Israel. But the question that I had remaining was, you know, people act like and she has said that our relationship with Israel is just going to exist, and it's been here for a long time, it's going to be here for a long time, and I'm just like, you know, racism has been here for a long time, soism, I'm sorry. So it's sexism, homophobia and all these things, and we do not subscribe to maintaining those relationships.
So what is it about Israel?
And I could just tell that she could not give me a complete answer because she just could not. What do you do when to go an official tells you what they can tell you, you know. But anyways, it got flack when I first put it out, but most people were just wishing that she would have just called it a genocide. What Israel is doing to gods like a genocide.
Now.
The thing is, the clips went viral again the weekend right before the primary, and these pages that were posting it were pages that are known, particularly on the app threads, for being messy, being divisive, and hampering down on black women in particular. So when I saw these posts from these accounts saying great question from the interviewee, horrible response from Jasmine, or a disappointing question from Jasmine Crocket, Oh yeah the interviewee, like that was an amazing question. I'm
not sure why she can't answer it. They were using me as this nameless person or whatever to try to further dinner grate Jasmine. And it was strange to me because it's on an issue that she and Taller Rico have had the same stance on throughout the entirety of their campaign, but in checking their pages, they had no
information about tall Rico's position on Israel. So that's a lot of backstory to say that I immediately took offense to it because as how I read it is that they were trying to use me a black face and a nameless blackface to try to justify this dog filing on
Jazzmin right before the primary. So I made some statements on my threads, I made a video on my threads, and then what the person who was responsible for Jazzmin's digital outreach campaign, Elizabeth Booker Squared also sort of came to my defense because she had dealt with one account in particular Roague DNC we should pull yeah yeah threads and so coming to my defense, this person decided it was in his best interest to create a racist caricature
of Elizabeth Barrier can to minstrelsy yeah and M need to we should pull it up so much, it was so much and I don't even know where you want me to go from there, because the thing.
Do we have that I'm asking Derek now, Derek, I flagged him in the chat because we got it got buried with all the Clinton testimony and everything else. So if we can't pull that, it's the rogue d n c uh threads post first, it's just text.
Uh.
So we put that image up and the personal it is it's a real it's a real, it's a real person.
Or something.
No, so let's let's local recognition correct.
But I think yeah, he was not an image Award winner, which is high. Read it to it first, so his this is him After he puts this racist caricature up of Elizabeth, who also has been a guest co host on our program as a family does it says Hey, all, I was educated on the history of racist caricatures by a mutual and by a mutual and apologize for my racist photoshop. Liquefy. This person has been bullying me for months.
This person, by the way, he talked about as Elizabeth Elith and didn't want to reply to her mean d M, so I did what I thought was a funny photoshop. I apologize and think those who talk to me with decency and respect now.
And sorry girl, please, this is probably didn't bully him.
Are equal and opposite responses to what people give. Anybody else like Elizabeth is definitely a pit bull when she needs to but it's always for a good cause, and somebody else always starts. Now this it has no decency or respect for themselves because as you said, or somebody said, they thought to throw into my thread where I asked them to stop using my name and my image for their massage noir. They said, well, I have an NAACP Image Award, So how do I hate black women?
Hey, exhibit A, exhibit A.
You have the site and na a CP recognition. Yeah.
Can I ask, can I ask Lennay just for for for listeners and particularly for black men who hear this word a lot? What is massage? Massage in no arm? What is that? Tell me what you mean in like in a in a very very not not I hate to say, fifth grade type way, but very.
Prictical way, kindergarten.
Please, absolutely so massage noir It can be a little bit of a mouthful, but it's a combination. It's a compound word of misogyny and noir, as in like film
and so black and film. So it was coined by Moya Bailey, my film and sister actually doctor Moya Bailey in two thousand and eight to describe how black women were being perceived on film at the intersection of misogyny and racism, and so it became sort of like a platform to discuss how black women experienced denigration or harm or double standards, are unfair critique at the intersection of misogyny and racism.
Clearly it's true truth. Yeah, no, I agree, I understand. No, I understand, but I know that it's agree. Sorry, no, I'm just saying that that is a that that has been a topic of conversation for a very long period of time, particularly since twenty twenty. And there are a lot of my friends and individuals who are not in these spaces, who have these conversations, who simply don't give it the credence or value it deserves, simply because we
don't understand what people are saying. Thanks for mansk, go ahead, appreciate it.
That's oh wow's funny.
It's funny enough too.
I make this.
I make the distinction that it started out as a appraisal of what happens on film because Moya was on Spilman's campus when Nellie I had to visit, and it was right after the tip Drill video, and that was the area of feminism. We're black women, We're not having the ass shaking, especially like in a man's purview and the host slide in the car down. The thing created a whole like cluster fun chocolate yes on Spellman's campus.
And so this is where the theory derived from. But it has implications and all other settings.
Okay, this is the thing that I think is important here too because when Rogue DNC tried to throw to his black friend the N double a CP, the N double a CP responded in kind because two of the people involved in uh his hula hoopla it were nominated for actual N double a CP Image Awards this year. Elizabeth Booker Houston Booker squared that she's done on social and of course our dear sister linee Vanie for everyone who's confused about how to pronounce then it is not
with her first name. We didn't even do it in a second show Andrew you was good. So this is what N DOUAACP says. Everyone has the right to share their opinions. Well, let me first say what he said first. If I hate black women, how come one nominated media get it in DOUBLEACP Award for my community this time?
Yet?
Let me.
Let me read it in my voice in his voice.
If I hate black women, how come one nominated me to get it in DOUBLEACP Image Award. I'm sorry n DOUBLEACP Award for my community work helping people of color, to which the NAACP responded in time. Everyone has the right to share their opinions and we fully respect that, but let's be clear, the NAACP won't serve as a buffer in this debate. Therefore, don't use us as a justification for your views, especially when it comes to issues
that impact black women. We celebrate the voices and experiences of black women and believe they deserve to be at the forefront of these discussions. Let's keep the conversation authentic and respectful, not focused on our org as justification for position.
And of the eight minutes tirade that I went on the internet about this, my favorite line is and see this is why the NAAE of me.
Yes, this.
Is why the NAACP is never going to be the end doua POC because bitch, just like you don't know how to act. Yeah, I'm quite sick of people of color coming into our spaces and getting the sort of affirmation of validation that you that you can be aligned with black liberation movements and then turning right back around and forgetting all of all of the respect and courtesy that you need to have for black people in this
fight with you. And another thing that I mentioned is the American individualism that that praise on these people that they fall victim to newts their ability to be real allies to us, because they only want to use us as stepping stools. And that infuriates me because I feel like we're in this moment where liberation ideology is cool, it is a thing to tap into. It's free Palestine,
it's free Congo, it's free Sudan, it's free Haiti. I'm sure you don't know anything about what's going on in Haiti, Sudan, or Congo, but you like to say those things because it sounds cool. But you've skipped your anti racism education. You've stripped cleansing yourself of that thing. And as much as I am transforming and evolving in my own ideology and theory, in this moment, I'm becoming, I'm beginning to recognize that racism is not the thing. It's not the only thing.
It is a vehicle.
It is a conduit for fascism to exist. It makes fascism much more easy to perpetuate. But you're gonna fighting all these things requires dismantling racism, and people still want to skip over it because it serves them in the in the short term and not everybody in the long run.
I want to say really quick here and then be I'm gonna yeld to you because I know you have to have a heard out.
You know.
I want us to be very clear about this, as black folks being far left on the political spectrum does not mean that you left racism behind. There are white liberals who double down in racism and have cover because of where they stand on the political spectrum. But if you have not left anti blackness behind to use what Kimberly Crenshaw told us to use, amen, then you are still part of the problem. Your politics will not save you.
And so early.
I mean, on our last show, you know, I was chucking the deuces to the Black Republicans who lost their primary racist thinking that they would be elevated because they would leave black people behind. But the more you try to leave us behind, I promise you you reap with you. So I promise you karma will visit you, and I promise there will be repercussions.
There just will be, and I think that we have to be clear about that.
As the postwordm goes for these primary campaigns, what you cannot do is sacrifice blackness and think that you will get ahead on our backs, on our votes, and on our people's times.
That's why I give it. I give a big shout out to South Carolina. I give a big shout out to sec Tuesday that comes usually after South Carolina, the places like Clark County, Nevada. Because we have these candidates many times who run for president of the United States, who run to be standard bearer, and their progressive politics, albeit progressive, many times don't align with the politics of race. They want to have a separate conversation about economics, liberals.
The progressive is fine because Bernie Sanders is a progressive and he who I'm talking to, right and just because, and you know, just because there are a lot of people who say, well, you know, he learned at the
feet of Jesse. He didn't learn everything. And oftentimes there is this notion that there is a rising tide lifts all boats, or pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and you want to have this conversation about economics without having this conversation about the issue of race and not understanding those two things are so fundamentally intertwined. It drives me nuts. And so I will say this, and this is another person that we will be watching closely progressives who are
running for president of the United States. I hope that you reach out to Lyney. I hope that you reach out to Elizabeth. I hope that you reach out to others like AOC. I just find her to be someone who's going to have to have this conversation in this battle as well when she runs for president of the United States. I just I'm not saying that she can't overcome it, she can't leap it. I think that Brian
that shats Brian Shatz from Hawaii. I think that old boy from a Connecticut what's his name, Andrew Chris Murphy, Chris Murphy from Connecticut. I think a lot of these I like them too, but I think that a lot of these individuals need to spend some time before they get out there and the light shines upon them having these conversations about the way economics intersects with race.
And they should not have the conversations for free. They should be paying consultants like they do it all in white boys.
So you got you're not going to do work for some black foot.
Of course, because you've said your last word, I'm messing with you.
But you know the one thing I did want to say, because because we're not we're not not aware of how politics works, our conversation about Texas and the flow from that and our advice generously given to the nominee, don't disqualify our ability to take issue and.
Consider it us not being on the train to want to be Republicans like we get we can we can hold these things together.
I do not want a.
Terrible Republican who's about to prop up Trump going back to Washington representing the state of Texas. At the same time, in our rush to move on and unify, we leave these really gaping deep swells an injury in our body that you just want us to wear. You want us
to just persist through. And we can name it, we can claim it, we can call it out, we can say it and still be on the team to want to defeat fascism and racism in all its forms and how it shows up politically, so just for the folks, because I know it happens all the time we're trying to win. I don't know why y'all talking about We're going to talk about We're gonna talk about it because we can't be this.
We can't.
We cannot paper over this. The injuries are too deep sometimes and you're papering over it leads to the defeat anyway, So call it out, make recompense, and then we can move forward. But don't don't don't make me the front. I got to sacrifice, so I got to be on the suicide mission. So you can feel right that we got the right energy.
There's something I want to call back to because and just trying to describe a situation, I think I missed out on a point that's been actually really sticking out to me as I'm doing a lot more writing up y'all working on the book, so are a lot more writing and just parsing out what this moment feels like
truly and what I'm learning. But the massagyn War in particular, as I said, was the fact that there was this dog piling on jasmine for an issue people rightfully should take issue with the massage war in that James was not given the same treatment or the conversation was not
about the two of them equally or even equitably. But even with this critique, I'm trying to be careful with my words because of the idea that I'm still developing, But I still think there's some truth to it that we need to harness, like early, especially as we come up on November elections. I feel like the sort of demand, the unwavering and unequivocal demand that we're making on moral
compass and purity checking. I understand, for instance, I hear often I draw the line at genocide and there is no wiggle room around that, and I absolutely understand that anybody with a heart or any humanitarian, altruistic spirit would feel the same thing. I don't know that Americans have
earned the right to move like that. I don't think Americans have created a government structure to be able to just knock people out of the game, because where are there was not another option besides James or Jasmine that Texas election for someone to choose in alignment with their ideas or ideology surrounding what's going on in Gaza. So I'm just wondering how we pull back on the hypocrisy.
And actually move with.
Strategy, and the strategy feels like a really impersonal world when we're talking about impersonal word, when we're talking about the extermination of a people. So I know conversations like this are not comfortable just saying we are the most of us, I want to say, you guys, but most of us, especially my generation, are just arriving to this amount of clarity in terms of how our government works, how we can engage in it, and how we can
demand more out of the people that we elect. We're just getting here, and so I don't know that we have the options for what we're requiring.
Does that make sense?
It makes perfect sense, I would say to you to linay like, it's a hell of a time to be coming to that conclusion, because the way in which we can petition our government is changing. We have someone that is seeking to become an authoritarian leader, and so those options are being foreclosed upon before our very eyes.
You know, the Speaker of the House saying just days.
Ago that Donald Trump shouldn't have to get congressional approval to go into Iran is something. It's notable. It's it major, you know. And I think the other piece around this is on top of a purity test. If you draw the line at genocide and neither candidate in the primary speak to speak strongly enough on the issue, then that
means you're staying at home. And I think that that also is a point of hypocrisy, because you're not going to get closer to ending a genocide if you don't petition and participate in the government structure that we have, as flawed.
As it is.
I think the other thing that I would offer is do you draw the line at genocide if the people are with you on calling it a genocide, but they are willing to slaughter and harm and oppress your people at home. We've seen that too, and so I think that what we have to be honest about is just like we have to choose the ish will put up in our interpersonal relationships, we have to choose the ish will put up with with our politicians, because it.
Is never that pure.
There's a reason why when a bill is passed there are sections that go through revision. Upon revision, there is a committee markup where revisions and amendments are made. There's a floor process where amendments are made. It is because it is not black and white. It's nowhere near as black and white, certainly as the ya's and a's right to pass the measure. And at most what you can do when you want to find a gray areas vote president and you still get dragged by your constituents.
But it is never that clear.
And I think that we can also even when it's not that clear, Angela, it's as you know from CBC, sometimes it is this is what we could negotiate. At this moment, I haven't divorced myself from where we want to go.
The north Star is there.
That's it.
And I think that ultimately what I would hope for young people is just like sometimes you have to negotiate your way to an A grade in school, or you have to negotiate your way to higher pay at work, or you have to negotiate your way to raising money for the business that you're starting. It is not always that black and white. I wish it was, it would be so much easier, But this, I mean, this is, you know, incredibly hard. When we were talking about people bloodshed and live.
I know we have to wrap y'all. I do, but I just want to offer contrary opinion, which is I actually think we need the people who are zero su in some ways about their vision and what they want to see realized, because I agree with that too. Those are some of the folks who have moved, the folks who just want to be safe enough inside the position to not be dragged over. And a lot of us need to be dragged over, absolutely, a lot of us need to be to expand our territory.
Gaven just got dragged over. It's an apartheid state. Israel's an apartheid state.
I ain't never again.
It is the pressure points, there are the pressure points. But but also in our movements we do need the strategists who understand that there are some there are some gifts, take shifts, there are some things that have to happen, and that's why you have folks who who serve at different places. But I just, if I'm being honest about my life in public service, that on some occasions I needed the net to be cast a little further than
I was prepared to cast it. Absolutely, and by that being cast further, not only did you create the space for me to have to negotiate that I'm not far enough. I'm not close enough to where my people are on this, and you're too far away from them, and we can't win that way. You need to get closer to me as I move closer to them. And so they've now, because of their demands, have renegotiated the table. They've allowed for different negotiation to take place.
So I'm so that doesn't differ from what I was saying.
I think that what you're describing, Andrew is an inside and outside game. And what I'm trying to get at is the fact that what I'm seeing as I'm watching younger people get mature, is a disdain for the inside game. Right It's like everybody need to be outside and that's just not how it has worked. It doesn't mean that's not how it should work or how it's gonna work, but it is.
It's not. That's not how it works right now.
Well, I'm for supportive if we want to dream together about the system that.
We deserve a unique opportunity to figure.
Out, and when we do that, we can't we cannot unilaterally disarmed from the system we are working within.
That's it.
That's the only thing. Let's build build a boat, But we got to row.
To Yes, we don't want up to row sign up to build a sign up.
Something this has been, there's been something, y'all. I hope our listeners enjoy. We have gone on at an extended period. But but you heard flea floring thought here and I think really genuine, authentic discourse.
And you're such a I'm so glad you joined us. Brilliant, badass, smart witty, just fantastic.
Congratulations you guys.
But yes, thank you, like if it was such a joy at home, and you're welcome back anytime.
Welcome, Thank you, guys. It's been lovely.
See y'all.
Deuces.
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