The Valley Killings: Alpine National Park

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There is a popular quote by Dr. Wayne Dyer that reads, If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at... Change. One of those things is luck. As a concept, it's pretty subjective. Is someone lucky to survive a tragedy or a horrific accident? Or are they unlucky for having to live through them at all? Take Violet Jessup. who was aboard the Titanic and the Britannica when they both sank, or Tuzomo Yamaguchi, the only known survivor of both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.

Or how about Ann Hodges, who was hit by a meteorite while sitting on her couch? Or how about good old Roy Sullivan, who was struck by lightning more than seven times? Like the book series of the same name, some may view their lives as a series of unfortunate events. It's hard to look at it in any other way when outside forces seem to pull the strings and place individuals on the path of repeated difficulties.

but sometimes there are those who claim to be stuck in this pattern of unfavorable occurrences.

and instead of sympathizing with them we doubt them because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time just often enough for us to all question if they aren't the victim of such tragedies but rather the author of them Welcome to National Park After Dark.

So this is going to be a tragic story? Yes, it is. It's a true crime story. Oh, okay. I feel like it's been a little, yeah, I feel like it's been a little while since we've done true crime. Yeah, and it's actually one of the, I wouldn't say I was hesitant. to cover this case, but it's just one of the more recent cases, and we tend to kind of give those a wider breadth.

So it's a few years old at this point. It's about four years old. But that's recent, though. It's very recent. But as far as the court developments and things like that, it's still very much ongoing, which we'll get into. But it was really interesting. And of course, it happened.

And I just wanted to do a true crime story. So here we are. But before we get into that, we have a few like housekeeping things, which. has been a while housekeeping sounds like so boring this is exciting it is exciting i find comfort in the word house i just think of like tidying up and like making things like nice and organized. So I like it, but I don't know. What else would we term it?

Exciting announcement. Breaking news. Exciting announcements. Yeah. Breaking news. That's breaking news. We have decided to air one of our live episodes for everyone to stream at the same time. So we usually do these on Patreon. where we will do a live stream episode where we cover different stories. But tomorrow, August 6th, if you're listening to this on the day this comes out, on August 6th at 7.30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time or 4 p.m.

Pacific Standard Time, we're going to do a live episode where everyone can come. hang out with us. And this is really fun because we're going to have a couple stories, but also we're going to let people who are listening come on up. You can chat with us one-on-one, tell us a story, ask us a question, whatever you really want. You can come.

right up on stage. There's also a chat box where you can talk to everyone else who's listening at the same time. And like I said, this is something we've done for Patreon in the past. And we've done live episodes for everyone like a few years ago, I feel like now.

but we are in the process beginning process of revamping our patreon to add more things for everybody and in that we wanted to showcase our live episodes that we do to let everyone join so that is our exciting announcement is that you even if you're not on patreon can come hang out with us on tuesday yeah and it's not going to be super regimented it'll be a little bit more

relaxed um than our normal episodes obviously we'll have a couple of stories to present and chit chat about but it won't be in like a storytelling format which our usual episodes are like yeah it's more of just like around the campfire yeah it's a chill thing we can really dive into how I literally just saw two minutes before we got on here that Love is Blind is casting in New England right now.

you'll find out on you'll find out yeah anyway um and then yeah and then just chit chat about just other stuff and it's a fun way to just get together so anyway that's tomorrow 7 30 eastern 4 30 pacific and then my announcement is well it's both our announcements but i'm very proud of yours you may take the floor on this one you did all the hard work

Thank you. So for a really long time, we've gotten suggestions about doing some sort of episode catalog, a searchable episode catalog for our website. For a long time, we put it on the back burner because we had this vision of like maybe like an interactive map where you could click on different.

locations and that episode would come up and things like that. And I think we just got overwhelmed and daunted by that because we were unable to do that on our own and it was hard to outsource. So we kind of just put it off. This past weekend, I don't know what got into me, and I decided to work all weekend. And so I went through every single one of our episodes in our back catalog and cataloged them chronologically on our website.

created not only a search tab so say you're going to Yosemite and you want to see if we've covered anything that has to do with Yosemite you can type that in or if you want to hear about aliens you can type in aliens and anything within our backlog that we have covered that subject will pop up for you so there's that which is really exciting and just a

And aside, if you happen to have the skills of creating what I just described with the map and episode, don't tell me. Please don't tell me. It's too late. This is so easy. I can help you. Yeah, it's done now. So we'll keep that up to date. But as of right now, there'll be 200 and whatever this is, 42 of them. And so that's up there. And then also we did have a sponsor page.

in the past but it was kind of cluttered and we didn't have it super up to date that is now fixed so if there is any product or service that you've heard us speak about or not, and you're just curious if we have a discount code for them, you can go on to our sponsors page on our website and every offer code and special link that we have ever offered.

for our partners is listed on there. And just as an aside, when you buy a certain product or use a link or anything like that, you're supporting us directly in our show. So if you want HelloFresh. And you are going to get HelloFresh anyways. Use our code for that. Yeah. Right. So yeah, they're all listed there and we'll keep them as up to date as possible. So there's that. Oh, and last, last, last thing on the episode page. There's also a little thing

at the top that has a link to a submission form. If you have an episode or a topic recommendation you would like to submit, because we get them all the time via email and we have our own little lists going and things like that. But this actually... drives it and funnels it all into a space that has nice Excel spreadsheets on our end. And it's just very organized. Yeah, it's very nice. So yeah, utilize it if that's something you're interested in. And that's it for housekeeping.

Cool. Very exciting. Well, now I'm excited to hear this true crime story. Okay. Yes. Let's do it. Oh, I guess wait one last thing. Okay, wait. Just as a side note, I forgot I actually wrote this in my... Because people have been asking for that episode list for so long, that could be searchable. I totally understand. That's why I did that. But I didn't know if people are aware or not.

If you're using a Spotify app and you're in our feed, there is a search bar at the top there as well. That is the same thing. I think Apple does it too. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm not an Apple. gal as far as like how I listen to things. So it could very well. No, there's not.

Yeah. So just in case anyone was curious and wanted that function, but didn't necessarily want to have to go to a website to then do it. And that's a whole thing. But anyway, there it is. So to our true crime story, did you have anything else to add? I know I just talked a lot. Sorry. No. Okay. I'm ready.

Save with digital coupons at Tom Thumb. This week at Tom Thumb, get signature select whole frozen turkey. 12 pounds and up for 55 cents per pound with digital coupon. With a $35 minimum purchase, excluding the turkey, alcohol, tobacco, pharmacy, and other standard exclus... Limit six total. Visit Tom Thumb for more deals. Boxes were all filled with gifts big and small, but sharing pure love is the greatest gift of all. Stay cozy, my people, and have a boss year.

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Robin Hill had no cause to worry. It was March 19, 2020, and her husband Russell was packing up for a solo camping trip. Robin helped him along as Russell chatted about his plans for the upcoming week in the woods. She knew how much he loved being in nature. A lifelong outdoor enthusiast, 74-year-old Russell had been visiting the high country of Victoria, Australia for decades.

He had even worked there during his time with the Forest Service, cutting roads through the very area he so often returned to for pleasure. more often in recent years after his retirement. Before seeing him off, Robin handed her husband some cash for lunch and lovingly sent him on his way. Russell was headed to the Wanagata Valley within Alpine National Park. The state of Victoria's largest park, the park protects over 646,000 hectares, or 2,500 square miles, of the high country.

The park acknowledges the aboriginal, traditional owners of the land, including the Duteroa, the Tengarung, and the Gunai-Kurnai peoples who identified the Alpine National Park as their traditional country, who lived in, worshipped in, and passed through the Alpine area for thousands of years. In the early 1800s, the land was used by European settlers for grazing purposes and from the mid-1800s into the early 1900s, the area drew in thousands of people with the promise of gold.

In the 1940s, a demand for timber resulted in the building of a road network through the Alpine area, which in turn opened access for visitors. With the greatest range of flora and fauna of any park in Victoria, it's a popular spot for fishing. hunting, recreation activities like

rock climbing, rafting, horseback riding, bushwalking, and bird watching. In the winter months, people flock there for winter sports like downhill and cross-country skiing, as the park actually has two popular resorts located within it. Much of the park is only accepted by four-wheel drive vehicles because it has dense bush and rugged roads. It's really difficult to access a lot of the areas in this park, but it also offers one of the most scenic and historic four-wheel drive tracks in all of

the country of Australia, and it's called the Wanagata Icon Drive. It's about 222 kilometers or about 137 miles long and passes through all these different beautiful landscapes from mountains, there's waterfalls, there's even little...

historic sites throughout the drive. There's different historic huts and pioneer mines and campsites, and it's just really beautiful. Very cool. And this area, the Wanagata Valley as a whole, is where Russell was.

headed and before we go on with the story i just i know i said they have a there's a wide variety of flora and fauna um here and i didn't say one single animal or plant so i wanted to point your attention to one of the most special residents of the park and it's called the mountain pygmy possum and it's the world's only exclusive flea alpine marsupial and it is so cute so i know you would appreciate it it is really cute

Yeah, isn't it sweet? It's like a little mouse. It's tiny. With really big eyes. Yeah, so that's one of the rarest animals in the park. So there's that. Has nothing to do with the story, but just know they're around. Just know it's important to know this about this park.

But unbeknownst to Robin, who is Russell's wife, Wanagata Valley may have been Russell's final destination, but it wasn't his first stop. After leaving his home in Druin, about 56 miles or about 90 kilometers east of Melbourne, he pulled his white Toyota Land Cruiser into the driveway of Carol Clay's home. Before long, 73-year-old Carol had loaded her belongings into the...

vehicle, was buckling up her seatbelt in the passenger seat and off they went. Wait, who's Carol? Well, she's very important to this story. Russell and Carol had known each other for decades. Since they were teenagers, actually. They had been high school sweethearts and each other's first loves. But as time tends to do, it ultimately kind of...

drifted them off onto different paths and sent them their separate ways. They went on to marry separately, have families of their own, but in 2006, their paths merged again. They rekindled their love story in secret and spent over a decade concealing the true nature of their relationship but it wasn't completely hidden at first this is wild and i kind of just want to get this out of the way because it's not

Obviously, it's very clickbaity because there's this love affair and mistress and this and that and whatever. But it kind of, at least in the headlines, it kind of takes away from... the true chat tragedy of this story. So I'm just getting this out of the way now so that we have an understanding of their relationship. We won't be focusing on this. Right. Yep. At first, Russell introduced Carol to his wife, Robin, as his cousin.

And the four of them. So the four of them. So there's Russell and Robin Hill. And then Carol and her husband were not strangers to each other at all. They actually spent time together even going on. group vacations together and robin recalled noting some of their behavior like the behavior between carol and russell is a little bit odd and she would notice cousinly yeah she would notice maybe like some looks

that they would give each other and they would go on walks alone a lot when they were on group vacations. But it was ultimately a neighbor who forced a confession out of Russell. Basically, one of the Hill's neighbors had come to find out the truth between Russell and Carol. I'm not exactly sure how, whether he saw them or just put it two and two together. And he gave Russell an ultimatum. Basically, tell your wife. the truth or she'll hear it from me. So Russell came clean.

to his wife in 2016. And Robin, of course, was devastated, but ultimately she remained by her husband's side. They had been married for nearing 50 years at that point. They had three children and she obviously adored him. So she put that aside and they were working through it. Russell promised that he would end things with Carol. And from what Robin could tell in the recent years, he had done that. However, Carol was under a different impression.

Somewhere along the line, her and Russell had come up with a plan. They would end their marriages so that they could be together without any form of restraint. And she kept up her end. She divorced her husband years prior. to this and whether carol was still awaiting russell to do the same although he had expressed reluctance as robin was quote unquote not well um he was like i can't divorce her she isn't well like was she sick and not that i could tell

Not that I am aware of. I mean, obviously she's elderly at this point, but I'm not. There wasn't any sort of like ongoing illness that I am aware of. Or maybe Carol had just ultimately accepted. the conditions of their arrangement and just kind of, or that was like, this is just how it's going to be. And I want to be with you. So this is, I guess what I'm going to do. So I'm not entirely sure where she stood with all that, but regardless.

She continued seeing Russell and was happy to join him on the camping trip to the valley. And it wasn't their first camping trip together. Although Carol didn't identify as a camper. She wasn't like, yeah, I'm a super outdoorsy woman. She did share.

a love of nature and an appreciation for the outdoors. She was happy to join him. She obviously loved being in his company. So the pair arrived to an area called Buck's Camp, which is a remote area within Alpine National Park. And they went forward with setting up. their site. They pulled out their tent and their camping chairs, set up their privacy shell over a toilet, and settled in. Russell pulled out his drone, his newest hobby project.

He had taken retirement a little bit hard, confiding in friends and even some acquaintances later on that it had quote unquote fucked him up. He was having a hard time adjusting to what life after retirement is just kind of like a lot of time on your hands and not really having a. a purpose when it comes to work. He was actually on some antidepressants, which his wife Robin had made sure to pack for him. And while seemingly happy, he was grappling just with the new lifestyle, that retirement.

And his drone was one way to combat that spare time by just by learning a new skill and diving into a new hobby. He did have a heart for hobbies, and he had been a longtime member of a local amateur radio club. At camp, he made it a priority to set up his two-way radio. It was one of the first things he did when they set up camp. For nearly 30 years prior to this, he had been a part of this amateur radio club, communicating with members via daily transmission.

And in fact, some of his longest running friends were friends made over the radio waves from this club. Like he had been doing it for so long, so routinely and regularly that some of his friends. ships formed over radio communication, which is really cool. That is cool. He used the radio at home a lot and on trips, especially to places like the Highlands where cell service was...

pretty much non-existent, and he would use it as a way to communicate with friends and family. So around 6 p.m. on March 20th, he used the radio to send out a radio call to his friends to check in and notify them that all was well, he had arrived. and that he was safe. One of those friends to receive the message was Robin Ashland, who had known Russell for more than 25 years. Robin recalled his friend Russell being happy as a pig and shit when camping, especially in the Highlands, which he

took a lot of pride in. Granted, he spent so many years there in the valley during his time at the Forest Service. He knew the area so intimately because he worked there and cut a lot of the road systems that exist there today. Oh, gotcha. And Robin would have never thought that he would be one of the last people to hear Russell's.

voice. Two days prior, on March 18th, another camper had ventured to the Wanagata Valley and settled into Buck's camp. 53-year-old Jetstar airline captain Gregory Lynn had sought out the solitude of the park for deer hunting. A resident of Caroline Springs, located on the western outskirts of Melbourne, he had made the five-hour drive to the park alone, leaving his wife Melanie and children at home. Along with his camping gear, he packed his Nissan Patrol with two weapons, a shotgun,

and a rifle to be used on his hunting trip. Gregory had arrived and settled into Buck's camp before Russell and Carol pulled in nearby. Sometime after Russell's radio transmission around 6pm, an altercation unfolded between Gregory and Russell. Gregory had been off hunting and had noticed a drone flying above him, seemingly keeping tabs on him, like tracking him, hovering around him, not just passing by.

So when he returned to his campsite adjacent to Russell and Carol's, a heated exchange followed. According to Gregory, which is very important to keep in mind, according to him, he confronted Russell about the drone, saying kind of like... What's up with that? Why are you following me? When he got back and saw that Russell had a controller in his hand, obviously he knew he was the owner of the drone. And according to Gregory, Russell snapped, became enraged.

And he said that Gregory was hunting way too close to the camp. He had drone footage to prove it and that he was threatening to take that footage. to the police. And this in turn angered Gregory, who was a seasoned and licensed hunter who took a lot of pride in being an ethical and rule-abiding sportsman. It also caught him a bit off guard because the day prior, when Russell and Carol first arrived, the trio exchanged pleasantries. You know, when you pull into a campsite.

next to somebody else you might talk chat like even go a little further than just like a casual conversation like actually become friendly with each other right so he was a little caught off guard by this interaction because his only other interaction with him was quite pleasant. So this was kind of a complete departure of his previous introduction to him.

Not that Gregory could have known, but Russell did have a relative who died years earlier in a hunting accident, so perhaps he was a bit sensitive to hunting safety measures and it was just a really sensitive subject. But regardless, after the exchange...

Gregory retreated to his camp where he set up for dinner. Annoyed by the onslaught from his neighbor he decided to poke the bear and antagonize him a little bit. After placing his weapons and ammunition on the seat of his Nissan, he opened every single door of the vehicle and blasted his music at full volume. Oh no, I would hate that. And he knew it was going to agitate Russell and potentially Carol. And he was sitting by his fire.

still brooding over this argument, still stewing, when he saw movement out of the corner of his eye by his truck as he got up to investigate. Because at this point, it's not pitch black, but it's dark. So he sees a little bit of a flicker of movement over there. He gets up to investigate what's going on. And he saw Russell striding back to his campsite with Gregory's shotgun in his hands.

So Gregory follows suit. He's yelling at Russell, basically saying, what the heck are you doing at my campsite? What are you doing with my gun? Etc. This is escalating. Fast. So now in Carol and Russell's campsite, they've... He's followed them back to the other campsite. Suddenly, Russell spins around, pulls the action back on the shotgun, and fires a couple rounds into the air, yelling at Gregory to quote-unquote fuck off.

And basically like buzz off. Don't follow me. Get away from me. Gregory was a few paces behind him at this point. And when. The shots were fired. He was startled and he darted around the back of Russell's truck, fearing for his life. He's like, what is about to happen? This guy is unhinged. Like, I am scared for my life. And he was afraid to make a run for... his camp because he thought it was going to put him basically out in the wide open. Yeah, I mean, this guy's shooting his gun. Right.

So he didn't want to be in the direct line of fire. So he tucks closely against the truck to kind of shield himself and hide himself. But he heard Russell cock the weapon again. And the sound of his footsteps were... were growing closer. Glancing up from his spot against the vehicle, Gregory saw the barrel of the gun come into view over the hood of the car from the position where he was tucked against it. And fearing that he was now out of options, this guy is coming down on him.

He's too afraid to run and put himself out in the open. And hoping to disarm Russell, he lunged for the gun, grabbed a hold of the stock and the barrel, and a violent struggle ensued. Meanwhile, Carol took cover behind the back left wheel of the truck and was screaming for them to stop. Gregory spun Russell around. So now his back was against the bull bar of the vehicle on the front.

you know, fighting over this weapon. They're yelling at each other, screaming at each other to let go and stop. And then suddenly a shot rings out. It fired through the side mirror of the land cruiser and directly into... and directly into Carol's head, killing her instantly. Oh my god. Snatching the gun from Russell, who is clearly shocked, Gregory walked back to his campsite.

emptying the ammunition chamber by firing several more rounds into the air to kind of just totally negate the possibility of more shots being fired from it. And as he's doing that, Russell is... yelling at him and following him saying she's dead over and over and it was dark but gregory when he turned around could see the shining of a metal blade of a knife

In Russell's hands. I know this is kind of confusing. Are you following this? Am I saying this? Yeah, I'm following this. But how did this get so crazy so fast? Well, that is the question. Now there's a knife. Now there's a knife involved. So he sees this like sheen of the blade in the darkness and Russell's coming directly for him.

In the nick of time, Gregory managed to block him, grabbing his wrist, and he was attempting to control the blade. Another struggle ensued, throwing and blocking punches between the both of them. There's swipes of the blade. It's like... a total disaster. And then they suddenly fall into the dirt. Somebody trips over somebody else. They're now both on the ground. And Russell fell directly on top of Gregory and they're...

continuing to grapple over this control of this weapon. And finally, Gregory manages to stand up and get on his feet. and backs away from the situation, although Russell remained on the ground. As Gregory backed away towards his car, Russell started crawling very slowly until he stopped. He rolled over and became motionless.

Gingerly approaching, Gregory quickly understood what was happening. The knife was plunged deep into his chest. Gregory checked Russell's pulse and checked his breathing patterns and finding that there were... None. He went over to Carol, leaving the knife in Gregory's chest, went over to Carol because he didn't see anything with Carol.

He heard Russell screaming that she's dead and he was walking away. So he goes over to Carol to check in on Carol and clearly noticing that she is deceased. I mean, her head was struck. He starts to panic. And he started making some decisions. Within minutes, he had weighed his options. Oh, no. This is where it really turns, isn't it? Yeah, you could say that. Well, you could say that for before, but we'll get into it.

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Okay, within minutes of this all unfolding, this dramatic series of events, Gregory had already weighed his options and the potential consequences of each option. Thinking his version of events would never be believed by authorities if he were to report the incident, and worrying that it would ruin his career and put his family, finances, and life he worked so hard for in jeopardy, he decided on a completely different path.

Acting fast, Gregory packed up his camp. He dragged and carried Carol and Russell's bodies into his utility trailer, took the cash out of Russell's wallet, collected all of their belongings from the campsite that they had already set up. of which had a significant amount of blood and tissue on them from the shotgun blast that hit Carol, placed them all in Russell and Carol's tent and set it on fire.

Gregory's sight completely broken down, blood cleaned from the scene, and the other campsite now thoroughly ablaze, he drove off into the night, looking for somewhere to dispose of the bodies in his trailer. After running into several road closures and having to turn around, he eventually found a suitable location in another remote location called the Union Spur Track, several hours away in another remote corner of the park.

While unloading the bodies, he discovered that Russell's phone was still in his pocket. After stashing the bodies in some dense vegetation and covering them up with different wood litter and stuff on the ground, he left for home. burning his bloody clothing, destroying the knife, the drone, Russell's phone, any remaining items he believed could have linked him to the incident, and kind of that was that. On the way home, he avoided using credit cards.

that could trace his movements, instead spending Russell's cash that Robin had given him for lunches to pay for his fuel. He arrived home on the afternoon of March 22nd and told, nobody literally not a soul what happened you may have thought that like his wife would have been curious of how his trip went but Gregory had two things working for his favor first his wife had very little interest in the out

doors and his vent his adventures there i mean gregory was known to go camping a lot and hunting a lot on his own um his wife didn't wasn't really super interested in it so aside from like how was it was probably the extent of the conversation so he didn't really like he could have just been like yeah it was great and that would have been the end of it so she wasn't you know drilling him for any sort of descriptive details that he had to come up with lies for so that

was the first thing working in his favor. And the second thing was in his absence, the world was shutting down because it was the dawn of COVID-19. March of 2020 and yes so in his absence when he's out there the The world is starting to go into lockdown. And his wife, along with the rest of the world population, his neighborhood, his neighbors, everything, they're all completely wrapped up in all of the emerging information coming out about the pandemic.

the rapidly approaching lockdowns so in short australia was one of the countries that like fully locked down there's no in or out of the country yes they were very strict especially in the early days about COVID precautions and lockdowns and things like that. So, and this was like the very early days of that. So in short, Melanie didn't ask a single question about the trip and Gregory didn't offer a single piece of information about it. And so that was kind of that.

Meanwhile, at Buck's camp on the 21st of March, Andrew Marquardt was visiting the valley with his family when they came across a bird campsite and a charred vehicle while looking for a suitable place to camp themselves. He raised an eyebrow at it.

but left. But the following day, he returned to investigate further and took photographs of the site. His images show a peculiar scene. There's burnt tent poles and charged... and charred items and ashen remains of solar panels, cooking stoves, an iPad, all of this stuff just in a burnt...

crispy heap there was a cooler full of food and refreshments nearby seemingly untouched and peeking into the cab of the car andrew noted a handbag on the passenger seat a damaged mirror on the side of the vehicle and vowed to turn in his findings into the police when he left the valley so he is documenting what he's seeing and he's noting as strange but it just was kind of like it took him a minute like i'm gonna go back there and take a closer look at that it's like wait a second like yeah

That evening, back at the Hill residence, Robin switched on her husband's radio in hopes of hearing from him. While she wasn't involved herself in this amateur radio club, she would sometimes tune in to hear their... different communications and kind of not eavesdrop because that kind of takes on a

like a spy tone like she's not trying to spy on anything she's just trying to keep up with things and that evening she hears the normal chatter between group members and amongst one another catching up on things but russell's voice was not among them over the following days, she tuned in with the same intention, but the same result. Russell was nowhere to be heard. Robin phoned her eldest daughter, Deborah, to express concern over that. and was encouraged by her to make a report to the police.

And shortly after that conversation with Debra, Russell's radio friend contacted Robin. He was worried because in nearly the 30 years that he had been friends with Russell, he rarely missed his nightly communication sessions on the radio.

radio and now he hadn't been heard from in three days so for some people not hearing from someone for three days would be considered not a big deal but not in russell's world so between his radio friend And between Deborah and obviously Robin's own concern, they went to alert authorities about. the situation. The concern from the Hill family combined with the report from the Marquorts, the family that was like, hey, look at this burnt out.

campsite that we found, marked the beginning of one of Australia's most intriguing missing persons cases and an 18-month-long investigation.

Seven days after the pair was last heard from, official investigations began. On March 29th, police contacted Carol's daughter, Emma, and asked if she knew where her mother was. Because they're starting to put this together now because... Remember, Robin has no idea that Russell was with Carol. She thought he was by himself. Oh, right. Right, right. So now it's coming to light or will come to light that they were together.

So when Emma said, no, I haven't heard from my mom, I've actually been trying to get in touch with her, the police requested Emma permit them to use her mother's photo in a missing persons media release, poster, flyers. things for the newspaper and things like that. And she obviously allowed it, but she was initially a little bit reluctant because she knew that Russell was married and she kind of knew the situation.

between them like if they're both missing they're probably together yeah and although carol had described her relationship with russell as very loving and caring emma worried of any public scrutiny that would be directed her mother way because carol had been a very active member and a beloved member in her community she dedicated a lot of her time to the local red cross and she served as the president of the local

country women's association for many years so carol's close friends knew of her relationship with russell because she was very forthright with that information with her close friends. But once it became public knowledge, anything could happen with that narrative. You know, it's like you confide in your friend, your close friends. It's like, yeah, I know he's married, but you know, XYZ and I don't know. It's different, you know, when you're with your close friends. No, I totally get that.

You tell your close friends everything, but you don't necessarily want the world to know what you're up to. And right now, if you're not sure she's even in danger, why air out her dirty laundry, essentially? If she's okay, she's just off with her lovers. somewhere like why put this on the news for like a search but at the same time they're starting to get concerned and it's like is this the only option

Yes, that we have. That's right. So either way, she says yes. I mean, obviously her mother's safety is paramount to any. public gossip or anything like that. So anyways, Victoria police in conjunction with the missing person squad, whose role it was to investigate suspicious circumstances where it is possible that homicide has been involved, launched an investigation.

in a full-blown search of the valley and surrounding Highland area. Search and rescue teams were dispatched to scour all around the valley. and its surrounding areas, including on-foot searches with cadaver dogs and air wing searches from above. Investigators spoke to multiple people, including fellow campers and National Park employees who were in the area.

at the time of the pair's disappearance, and followed up with several different leads of possible sightings of Russell and Carol. Although no apparent traces of blood or human remains were actually observed at the scene, they found the wallets of both Russell and Carol. along with other personal items that indicated that foul play is probably at play here. It wasn't just like a they're missing because they decided to run off together.

you know and maybe you're gonna get to this but with these witnesses or not witnesses but just people in the park at the same time was there anyone who heard all these gunshots that went off because there was a lot that night Yes. Well, we will get into it a little bit, but to answer your question, no. There's no direct eyewitnesses. The only person that testified as a witness that was in the area heard Russell.

actually turning they were camped at this spot on the road that he was trying to utilize to get out of the park when he had the trailer and the bodies in the back of his trailer and he wanted to use that particular road to exit the park or get to another part of the park, but it was actually closed. So the people in that tent at that campsite near that road.

heard him having to back up the trailer and pivot a bunch of times and it like caught their attention like what is that person doing out there and he's and he saw that russell doing oh okay but besides that as far as the incident that night Correct. Nothing. No one. Gotcha. Which is clearly a problem.

A five-minute crime scene video was made and the scene was taped off and secured. Although investigators were almost certain something had happened to the couple within hours of their last known communication via the radio, all of their efforts for the first 30 days came...

up with absolutely nothing. Of course, investigators had their theories which rested primarily on foul play but with no physical evidence at that time all possibilities had to be considered including that they staged the scene and ran off together especially when it came to light that this was uh not his wife and this was someone he had a decades-long affair with it was something like

had to at least consider they decided to run they were clearly talking about leaving their spouses and you know what i mean like it's a fair avenue to to like look down yes so of course they kind of cross their t's and dot their i's with all these different theories but it soon became evident that that was not the case because for one they hadn't checked in with any of their family members you know they both had children you would think that

There'd be some form of communication. They're not just going to like totally disappear. Right. And of course, there's no activity in their phone records or their bank accounts. And all of their wallets and information is either missing or at the scene. So there's that. The case of their disappearance was all over the news and missing persons flyers with Russell Hill and Carol Clay's photographs were everywhere.

To the public, as time passed, it appeared as if no movement was being made in their case, but behind the scenes, there was. While delving into phone records, investigators noticed something that piqued their interest. They could see calls and... texts, of course, but they could also see the location of the phone towers that the devices had connected to. Both Carol and Russell's phones pinged the towers in the Alpine region on the 19th.

but had gone offline as they drove deeper into the park and lost service. So that's normal. But interestingly, two days later, on March 21st, Russell's phone... reconnected to the network, and connected to a tower in a different section of the mountain range over at a place called Hotham Heights, a fair distance away from their campsite, and it was the last record of the phone ever being active. Oh, because that was the phone that was on him when...

Having a general location to focus in on, investigators narrowed their efforts into finding any available surveillance footage of that area. And like I had mentioned before, it's pretty remote, but luckily. It does have a popular alpine ski resort in Village, and there were a few security cameras set up in that area that were actually initially put up and set up out there to catch anyone driving through to the resort trying to sneak in without paying.

The entry thing. You're always on TV somewhere. You are. Just assume. Just assume you are being watched. From somewhere. And act accordingly. Detectives cross-referenced dozens of vehicles on the cameras trying to find a match to the time that Russell's phone pinged with the cell phone tower and they got a hit.

as a dark-colored Nissan Patrol with a trailer attached passed through the area being driven by a man. So it wasn't a super clear photo, but they could see there's clearly a trailer, the type of car, and there's a single man driving the vehicle. and police soon linked the vehicle to Gregory Lynn and decided to pay him a visit.

On July 14th of 2020, nearly four months after the initial incident, Sergeant Florence and his colleague knocked on Gregory's door. When he answered, the pair, who were secretly recording the entire conversation, They introduced themselves and they explained that he wasn't in any sort of trouble. They were simply expanding their search for potential witnesses in the disappearance of the Russell Hill and Carol Clay. case. While Gregory appeared calm and seemed willing to help,

By offering his movements around the Wanagata Valley during that time, he explained that he hadn't seen either of them in his travels. The detectives thanked him for his time, and they left. However, as they were leaving the property, they noticed a Nissan patrolman.

parked down a small side street that was adjacent to Gregory's home. The license plate matched the number on the Nissan Patrol that was in the surveillance footage but the vehicle that they were now looking at was beige it was very clear that gregory had given his car a recent paint job oh weird oh because wait why what happened to his car so well it is his car it is the same car Let's just keep everyone on track. Like, why did it need a paint job? You'll see. Extra value meals are back.

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Their suspicions and, of course, the phone record matching up with the Nissan at the same time, like the information they had at that point in time was enough to obtain a warrant, which allowed them to place covert listening devices and cameras in Gregory's home, car, and drive. way, but not enough to act yet. So they're bugging his whole, his whole home, everything. They're like sneaking all these listening devices.

around trying to catch him in some sort of compromised situation where they can get more information. But he hasn't even told Saul. Right. I know. Yes. Which they don't know, obviously. But they just want to keep chaps on him. They're like, something's up with this guy and we need to know some more. So for months, they listened to Gregory's conversations to his family.

to his friends, and to himself. He talked to himself a lot. Then, in November, they set a trap for him. Of course, Russell and Carol's story continued to circulate the newspapers and television programming, but with little new developments and leads that were... were available to the public so at this point the media has little fresh information to report it's kind of fizzling out

in the media. And that is until a special 60 minute story aired focusing on the case, which featured information that the police had kept concealed from the public. until that time. And that was the traffic camera photo of the Nissan Patrol showing a distinctive retractable awning on the roof. Sergeant Florence, who was interviewed for the special, who's working on this case, who knocked on his door.

wanted to talk to him. He emphasized the importance of the car in the case, referring to it as the key of unraveling the whole thing. And Gregory and Melanie were watching. The 60 Minutes special as it aired in their living room at their home. The night it aired. And when the vehicle, the picture of the vehicle was... revealed melanie whipped her head over to her husband and said it looks like your car like this really looks like

It's like, what did you do? Right. And she kind of like, from what I was reading, she kind of, it seems like she had her suspicions, but of course, like you never think it's your... husband why would you think yeah like what are the odds that your husband's the one who did this right i don't know though like i'll post obviously i'll post the traffic cam picture

It's a pretty distinct, like the trailer's pretty distinct. The car, I don't, whatever. Can't you see him in it too? You could see definitely the shape of a man. You couldn't see anything. Obviously he's driving. It's a security camera footage. still photo it's not super high resolution or anything but i don't know i would be like something's going on here yeah um so gregory responded pretty much immediately to her like and he said that's not funny like don't even

suggest that. That's not something to joke about. And days later from that, like the next day after that aired, one of the hidden cameras outside of gregory's home captured him removing that awning from his car's roof that they were like that pointed out specifically like this is really important if you see this car like it has this specific thing whatever yeah

Less than two weeks after the special aired on November 22nd, Gregory left for another solo camping trip to an area not far from the Wanagata Valley. During the drive, the hidden recording equipment captured him talking to himself, speaking about how his wife would be left to care for their three children alone and how Australia's gift, a snake bite, wouldn't be a bad way to go out. them list all the information they have mounting against him and now hearing what

they assumed was maybe some indicators of him potentially perhaps thinking of taking his own life during this camping trip, they decided to act. So... Armed officers descended from helicopters directly into his campsite and swarmed him. That's a sight. That's an entrance. Like you're just laying there in the middle of nowhere by yourself. In a campsite and a helicopter just drops down with a SWAT team, you said? Heavily armed police officers, but yeah. So it's quite the entrance, yes.

He was arrested and brought to the police station for questioning, and detectives peppered him with questions, to which Gregory had no comment to, although he spoke with his lawyer who urged him to remain silent. Don't say anything. Just... Your only job is to not speak. He eventually undermined his lawyer's advice. After 45 hours in custody, over two and a half days, and hours of questioning, he broke. acknowledging he was going to ignore the advice of his lawyer saying, quote,

I'll tell you what happened right from the start. And from there, the entire story poured out. He detailed everything in methodical detail, including using maps of the park to point out the different routes he took, where the bodies were, what happened where. the campsite locations, literally everything he explained in thorough detail to the police officers. He also revealed the lengths he went to to destroy evidence that went beyond the burnt campsite.

that they knew of. Of course, that's the only thing they were aware of at this point in time. It turns out Gregory had returned to the location where he dumped Russell and Carol's body twice in the previous 18 months. The first being in May. two months after their deaths. Then after a visit from the detectives in July, Gregory panicked and started feeling that his plan was unraveling, like they know something.

I'm not in the clear. But with the COVID restrictions and lockdowns and stuff, there was a lot of different travel restrictions in place. And he was not physically able to return to the location where the bodies were. So he waited.

During that time that he was waiting, he painted his Nissan Patrol in an attempt to avoid being linked to the disappearance. Although he initially described it as a... covid project like so to the police and to his family he described like oh the car needs a new paint job anyway i'm just gonna i'll take this time here because remember

He's an airline pilot and there's no travel. Yeah. So he's just like, I'm bored. Here's a good reason to paint my car. Yeah. And it's so creepy, but his wife actually has a picture of him painting his car. Oh. Like, inadvertently, oh, like, hey, like, take your picture. Some people made sourdough and this guy covered up his crimes painting his car. That is correct. It was also revealed that during this time, he sold his trailer.

about a month after his visit to the valley in May, and it wasn't until November 18th when he returned to the site on Union Spur Track for the second time. This time, instead of just ensuring the bodies were still concealed,

which he did his first visit back in May, he decided to burn them. Shortly before sunset, he arrived at the scene and moved forward with what he described as a difficult task. The bodies were... significantly decomposed and he said he became physically ill several times, but using a small amount of kerosene, he lit them on fire and fed the flames for hours until their bodies had significantly deteriorated and there was very little.

remnants of their remains. He then used a dustpan to sweep and transfer the bits and pieces of what remained of Russell and Carol from that location to a... another location about 52 feet away at the base of a fallen down tree to further conceal the evidence. He went on to say, quote, I've made some poor decisions, but murder as I understand it, I am innocent of. The police, however, had a different opinion on that.

Two days after his interviews with police when they first began, Gregory Lynn was charged with two counts. of murder. With the exact locations provided by Gregory, in the days following his arrest, police and forensic teams descended to the Highlands to three separate locations, the first being the original campsite at Buck's camp, and then the two spots on Union Spur track where he initially burned the bodies and then where he dumped the dustpan remnants by the tree.

They spent the weeks of late November into early December of 2021 sifting through the dirt and the vegetation in the areas of their search. Experts gridded the area, removed the top 6 to 12 inches of topsoil, and used everything from heavy equipment, specialized instruments and just the old-fashioned method of getting on your hands and knees and picking through everything to search for evidence and process the scene. Bone fragments.

teeth, a ring, and a charred wristwatch were found under a tree off of a remote trail in the high country, which we knew that's where he dumped the remains. and it was reported that a, quote, significant amount of heat-affected biological material was found there as well. It was later revealed that the burning resulted in over 2,100 fragments of bone, and more than 1,500 of those were so tiny, it was nearly impossible to determine where in the body they were even...

from, let alone who they were, who they belonged to. But there were some fragments that were still viable for DNA testing, which ultimately linked the remains to Russell Hill and Carol Clay.

Pleading not guilty to the charges of murder, Gregory Lynn's Supreme Court trial began in May of 2024, two and a half years after he was brought into custody. The courtroom was packed to the brim. People took up every seat and the standing area, including members of the Hill, Clay, and Lynn families, members of the public, and of course, the media. Opening statements by both the lead prosecutor, Daniel Portradue, and defense attorney, Dermot.

Dan Casey outlined their positions. And in short, it was the prosecution's position that Mr. Hill and Mrs. Clay were killed with murderous intent after an argument erupted regarding the drone that Russell was known to use. They also alleged that Russell was killed first before Carol, who was ultimately shot because she witnessed the crime. That's their position. Okay. The defense, on the other hand, argued that the killings were accidental. They do consent that an argument was had.

did agree upon that, but they were adamant that Gregory did not pull the trigger on the weapon that killed Carol, nor did he plunge the knife into Russell that ended his life. Their position boiled down to a quote-unquote series of unfortunate events, two cases of tragic accidental deaths. They did not dispute Lynn's involvement in the burning of the campsite, the transporting of bodies to the different location, and obviously attempting to conceal.

destroy the evidence. They acknowledged that his series of terrible mistakes in that regard, but emphasized Gregory's state of mind. Basically, just harping on how scared he was of coming forward with the truth. Because he feared that his life would be ruined. And that he wouldn't be believed. Kind of like it's too crazy to believe. But like it really was just two accidents. And no one's ever going to believe me. But it was this huge struggle.

the scene would tell the truth, tell the story of what happened. Right. What he's saying is true. I'm having a hard time. I mean, the lengths he went to to conceal all of this. I'm having a hard time believing that. It wasn't murder on his side because the stuff he's doing is scary. Like you don't just like pack up, clean a crime scene, light everything on fire, like desecrate these bodies of. human beings. And that's just like a normal reaction to an accident.

That just happened. I don't know. It just it feels really violent to me. And I don't I can't say like, oh, like you've been lying for months to try and get away with it. But I believe you that you didn't kill them. Right. And that was a.

huge point in the prosecution's argument. And it comes up time and time again, but that's pretty much the heart of that, exactly what you just said. Because, I mean, we're at a point in the forensics world where... criminology world and crime scene world that there's a lot that can be determined from a scene without anyone's version of events it usually tells a story pretty black and white so why would you take that away if that's going to support your story why would you destroy it yeah

The prosecution called over 40 witnesses, including Russell and Carol's family members and friends, pathologists, forensic entomologists, national park employees, ballistics experts, nearby campers, and more, whose testimonies encompassed speaking to the kind and nonviolent characters of both Carol and Russell, how their causes of death were impossible to determine due to the lack of evidence remaining and the degradation of the bodies and much more.

They also played four hours worth of the police interview with Mr. Lynn following his arrest and highlighted how strange it was for Gregory to destroy all of the evidence that would have proved his story to be true if he had only left it be and reported it. as is. The defense, on the other hand, called only one witness and that was Gregory.

For over three hours, he took the stand, repeated his version of events, and answered questions with the same answers. He did not murder anyone. As a pilot, he was trained to be calm and manage stress in hectic and panicked situations. And that was his reasoning, his explanation for his methodical actions following the deaths. He maintained that he told zero lies since being arrested and had been forthcoming with every piece of information he provided.

detectives with, which numbered over a thousand pieces of various information. He apologized to the Hill and Clay families saying, quote, all I can say to the families is that I am very sorry for your suffering. But he remained steadfast during cross-examination that he was only guilty of the offense of destroying evidence. He was not guilty of murder.

The trial would stretch for five weeks. Each side gave their closing arguments and the jury was released to deliberate. Just prior, though. Justice Michael Croucher provided final instructions to the jury of 12 while summarizing the evidence that they had heard over the previous weeks. He cautioned them to use their heads and not their hearts when making a final decision, and also he made an important decision. So...

Basically, manslaughter is off the table. The two options are guilty or not guilty of murder. So then he released them to deliberate with no eyewitnesses, obviously, aside from Gregory, which is. Hard. Yeah, you can't just, we take it with a curtain of salt. Inconclusive forensic evidence, lack of pathology reports, no admissions from the accused, and lack of concrete motive, the heaviest burden of proof sat on the prosecution.

closing arguments, defense attorney Dermott Dan Casey admitted his client inappropriately stored his weapons and ammunition, which ultimately led to the deaths of two people. Because remember, he just threw his weapons and his ammunition. onto the seat of his car. Like they weren't locked away, et cetera. But again, his client was not guilty of murder. But of course that was for the jury.

to decide. After just over a week of deliberation, the jury returned the verdict to an anxious courtroom. The room fell silent as the jury foreperson leaned into the microphone to announce that the panel had found Gregory Lynn not guilty of the murder of Russell, but guilty of the murder of Carol. The split verdict was a bit shocking to everyone because it was kind of...

The thought was, you think in a case like this, after everything is presented, you either believe Gregory Lin's version of events or you do not. He is guilty or he is not guilty. Instead of this split. He's guilty of one murder and not the other. I don't understand how they think he committed one but not the other. Right. So exactly how the members of the jury came to this decision ultimately has not been revealed publicly.

At this point, we don't know. I don't know if we ever will. I think in time, it may come to light. But as of right now, it's kind of like an unknown. For the families of Russell and Carol, the verdict was... a mixed bag of emotions. In a statement, the relatives of the families put out,

It said in part, quote, we thank the jury for their verdict of guilty in the murder of Carol Clay. It was an extremely difficult task given that the accused destroyed so much evidence. The verdict of not guilty in relation to the murder of Russell Hill.

is devastating our families were always aware that the prosecutor had an enormous burden of proof as there were no eyewitnesses the accused was the only person who saw and experienced what happened he was the only person who emerged alive With standard murder sentences in Victoria, of 25 years it is possible that mr lynn could be in his 80s by the time he is released however it was announced on july 18th so just a couple weeks ago that he will appeal

against his conviction for the murder of Carol Clay. An appeal of the verdict would be heard by the highest court in Victoria, and a date for the potential appeal has not been set. as of this recording, when we're recording right now. However, Gregory Lynn's defense lawyer has expressed concern over the possibility of a retrial, in the near future at least, due to the media

So, it's like, what does that mean? Other deaths. Other crimes? Other deaths? What are you talking about? Things that the jury didn't hear. Like, what are you referring to? Is he, like, thought to be linked to other crimes? I'm so glad you asked because I have that information for you. Okay. I feel like the answer is yes. Yes. And it's kind of like, okay, so I will say before I continue that when I was researching this and reading his direct quotes.

and listening to some of the police tape and things that have been released since obviously he's convincing like from just like if you're not looking at any of the forensic pieces to this and kind of even just like being like well Why would you destroy the scene? I don't know. I just also have such a hard time believing that.

to tragedies like that and so bizarre also like what are the odds that like a stray bullet hit somebody right in the head and then five seconds later a knife plunges into somebody's chest when they fall like what are the odds of that like he's just so convincing and it i mean he's we'll get into it but i mean pilots are extremely intelligent people so

I'm not to say they're manipulative or like killers or anything, but pilots are very intelligent people. So if he is like, I feel like he would have the smarts to figure out. A way to be manipulative. Yeah, exactly. But also like even when you were telling this story and you told his versions of events, even at the end, like I can't 100% be like, no, that didn't happen, you know, because.

I mean, what if he is telling the truth? But I just have to ask, was Russell ever... violent in his life like is this completely out of character would he run and grab a gun from someone and then well that's the thing like from everything that i have over a petty red exactly And like basically his character witnesses that came forward were like, okay, first of all, he's elderly. Like, yeah, he was a tall guy. He was a little over 6'1 in his prime.

Even his wife was like, he's shrunk over time. He's 74 years old. He doesn't like weapons. Obviously... People have been like, oh, I've seen him like with a gun in his life at some point before. But it wasn't like he was someone who was well versed in like the way that Gregory was describing it. It's like he ripped the gun from his car.

loaded it cocked it shot it off like this is not something that he was familiar with like not i don't know with his lover lover it just seems And if you're on a vacation with your lover, who is a secret. You would think that you were trying to keep things pretty like on the down low. Low key. You know? Yeah. Like I don't know if I would be trying to attract attention to myself. Like am I going to be shooting off guns and.

like getting in a fistfight with the neighbor? Probably not. I don't want the police called or to be arrested with the person. You know, like it just seems like a weird time to draw attention to yourself also. That is a very good point. And one I didn't even think about, to be honest. It just seemed to me not saying that elderly people aren't capable.

of something like that and i mean some people in their 70s are like fully like we say elderly but like i have people in my family who are the same age 74 and you would never know it like right out do me and some things you know like so i mean i don't know like what kind of shape he was in or anything but

He was obviously still active in the outdoors. Yeah. 74 is a lot younger than it used to be. But that doesn't mean that they're... And how old is Gregory? He was in his 50s at this point. Yeah. So 50s versus 70s. I mean...

I don't know. It's all a little fishy. But all of this to say, all of this to say, I, up until this point, before I read any further into what we're about to dive into, it wasn't like I was torn because... in my gut i was like this guy did something and is is covering it up like there's just no way yeah um but if i was on that jury and was presented with the evidence i was presented with

Could I, with beyond a reasonable doubt, be like, there's no way those two accidents happened? Which was why this case was so difficult and why there was likely this split decision. Because like the judge said, you know. deliberate and make your decision with your head and not your heart like not what your gut is saying but what you are seeing and what you are presented with logically right so anyway Back to this other information that has come to light since. Yes.

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with hazelnut creamer or guatemalan with french vanilla hot iced any way you want jalapenos pickles onions or sauerkraut for your hot dog yup it's stop on your way stack on your toppings savor it all selection all in one place Racetrack. Whatever gets you going. Following pre-trial hearings, Justice Michael Croucher, for various reasons, which this podcast...

Episode would have been three times as long as I if I got into all the nitty gritty. But basically, for various reasons, he prohibited significant portions of the evidence, including recordings obtained by the police through. those bugs and covert listening devices to be presented to the jury. And one of the detectives who listened to 3,150 individual recordings over all the months they were listening to him.

came to view Gregory Lynn as, quote, homophobic, narcissistic, a chauvinist, misogynist, and prejudiced. So he obviously had some opinions on him based on what he heard from everything that they collected. The jury also was not told that when police arrested Gregory Lynn in November of 2021, that he had already given them a story in which he denied ever crossing paths with.

Russell Hill or Carol Clay, claiming that he had left the Wanagata Valley before they arrived at Buck's camp and that he only changed his story.

when he was confronted with the evidence of Russell Hill's phone pinging the towers as his vehicle was driving by. So the jury had no idea. The jury was like, oh, he... pointed out everything as soon as you know he was questioned he pointed everything out he said this is what happened this is where you can find everything they didn't know he had lied they didn't know that he lied at first and

in my opinion which i think you might agree with the biggest piece of this pie that they were not given was what happened with his first wife In October of 1999, 34-year-old Lisa Lynn was found in the fetal position, deceased in the garden of her home. Inside, her two young sons, aged one and three at the time, were asleep, and family photo albums were spread all throughout the house. The coroner ruled her death to have been...

caused by an overdose of drugs and alcohol, as toxicology reports revealed a blood alcohol reading of 0.21. And there was also antidepressants in her system as well. Her family and her friends were shocked and heartbroken over her death. Lisa had not left any sort of...

note behind and had not shown any signs of considering any form of self-harm, leaving it unclear if she intended to take her own life or not. Her friends remain adamant that she would never ever end her life intentionally as she would never leave her children behind whom they I mean they were her whole world she also was deeply religious and would have viewed according to her friends and family

they say she would have viewed the act of ending her own life as a sin against God. So they're like, not only would she go against her spiritual belief, that would go against her spiritual beliefs, but she would leave. her children her infant children behind unlikely right what is known however was the very abusive relationship that she was in with her husband gregory

Their marriage had begun to crack, especially when Lisa found photos tucked in Gregory's pilot bag, revealing images of her husband having a picnic with another woman. But it wasn't just that. Gregory was violent. Friends of Lisa witnessed him slam her into walls, yell, and scream at her. She would often be belittled by him, and he even threatened her life on multiple occasions. Lisa's parents were

aware of his violent outbursts, and claimed that their daughter was living in terror. Lisa's mother witnessed one of these outbursts in person when they were all out to dinner, and a man made the error, the mistake, of speaking. Talisa in Gregory's presence. And he flew into a rage and so violently verbally attacked this man that they had to leave the premises of the restaurant.

Because Gregory flipped out so bad that someone tried to talk to his wife. Previous co-workers have also come forward saying, quote, he was a bully. Junior pilots would go sick rather than fly with him. So. This is coming from multiple sources now that he is violent. He's a bully. He's quick to anger. He's not white. He has outbursts. Yep.

Needless to say, the defense chose not to call character witnesses. And that was actually a whole thing. Because obviously in a trial like this, you want to call people up to testify to your good character and your good nature, which... Obviously, they did for Russell and Carol. And the defense was going to do the same for Gregory. And then the prosecution's like, OK, well, what about all this? And they're like, OK, never mind. We're not going to. We won't.

bring any because they didn't want like the cross-examination on it they didn't want all this stuff happening coming to light during the trial also this next part obviously is i mean clearly we just talked about horrific uh

Murders or deaths, whatever way you want to look at it. But this next little part is involving animals. So he also tortured Lisa in other ways. After the movie Babe came out, the family bought a piglet. as a family pet and they named it pig and lisa adored it and considered it another one of her babies along with her her two young children and gregory who is really

I almost said wicked, wicked into horticulture and plants. And he had a really elaborate garden. He snapped when Pig got into it, into his garden, kind of dug up some of the plants. So he cut. pigs head off uh with an axe and left it on the doorstep for lisa to come home and find what in the world that is okay he's guilty he's guilty throw him in jail for life for that Honestly.

Like everything else. If that isn't telling. Abuse to animals is so telling to a violent nature in a person. And I mean, that's not only violent, that's horrific. And not only did he get mad at the pig, but then. he put his disgusting work on display to traumatize his wife and you know it just get it's just kind of putting that side by side comparing it to

the incident that we're talking about. So remember, they have this argument, allegedly, obviously, they have this argument. Gregory goes back to his campsite. He's ruminating. He's seething about this argument. And then these accidents happen. Well, with this, it's like an accident happens. The little piglet gets into his garden and he is ruminating about that and he's pissed. And then he decides to kill it because he's so upset. It's like...

Those two storylines are very similar, but obviously I think he's lying about what truly happened to Russell. I think that the argument certainly happened. Some sort of argument or altercation happened. Do I think he's grossly... over-exaggerating that part russell's part in it possibly probably

But I think that some sort of argument happened. He flipped out. He killed Russell, killed Carol, because obviously she's a witness to it, and then proceeded with trying to cover it up. Yeah. But anyway. I think that that makes the most sense. I agree with you. Especially knowing all that about him now. Well, there's a little more. Sorry. I know this one's kind of long, but I wanted to be thorough.

At the time, police investigations failed to reveal any suspicious circumstances or involvement of any other person in the death of Lisa Lynn.

Given the recent case involving Gregory Lynn, obviously, that we just spoke about, Lisa's case has actually recently been reopened, and investigators believe that with new witnesses stepping forward and additional pieces of information being revealed, there is... sufficient evidence for the coroner to order a second inquest into her case so right now lisa's case is uh is ongoing and is being re-evaluated justice for lisa and justice for peg

Literally. I know. And lastly, another case may now be reexamined as well. What? There's another one? There's another one. And it's, I mean, you can't say one death is worse than another, but this one is. has more to it. In what has been dubbed the Zigzag Road murder-suicide, in 2010, two of Gregory Lynn's former neighbors, who happened to be Lisa's friends,

were found dead in their home after their house was found ablaze by another neighbor. 61-year-old Annie Veergiver and her 64-year-old husband Japp and their three Vizlas, which are a specific dog breed for...

those of you who do not know, were found inside of the home. The initial report concluded that Mr. Revere Giver shot his wife while she was in bed, killed their three dogs, and then killed himself after setting the house on fire that was the initial report however the investigation was conducted by a local detective with the assistance of an arson chemist it was not led

by the homicide squad, which, of course, looks into suspicious deaths. The case remains a total mystery to those who knew them, who were close to the couple, because according to them, they were happy.

stable couple they didn't have human children but they loved their animals so much they viewed their three dogs as if they were their children and there was absolutely no indication of any sort of strife between them you know the whole this whole stuff you hear it time and time again like with suspicious stuff like this that at first is like oh maybe you know there was i don't know we're talking about there's arguments and stuff

there's a fire involved there's a fire involved there's a gun involved it's violent there's animal cruelty involved like and the only person that we know that is linked to all of those things is Gregory, and also if Lisa was friends with them and he has jealous outbursts against people who...

are in communication with her. Like, he got mad at someone for speaking to her. Like, I imagine, I can't imagine what he would feel about someone actually being friends with her. You're hitting it all in the head. I know. So, yeah, I know. Thank you. Thank you. Guilty. Guilty. Put them away. Throw away the key. In the aftermath, of course questions were raised by loved ones, but they were also raised by law enforcement officers and insurance assessors, especially given...

The weapon used was an action-repeating rifle. Jap was not a licensed firearm holder, was not a hunter, and no one who knew him had ever seen him with a rifle. Who do we know that is a hunter that uses a rifle? A friend of Lisa's later reported, quote, I remember Lisa telling me Greg argued and was frustrated by the neighbors in Zigzag Road. She was alarmed at his hatred for them. Lisa was embarrassed by his outbursts because Lisa loved everyone.

So it's like, clearly, there is something going on here. A common theme here. Whether Gregory was involved is unknown, of course, but there was an incident with another neighbor in which he was definitely involved. According to another friend of Lisa's, Mr. Lynn had a real hatred of barking dogs.

he had a real thing about noise. When the couple lived in another neighborhood, Gregory and Lisa, Gregory had a dispute over a neighbor's barking dog, which was later found shot and strung up on a fence.

What in the world? This guy is disgusting. All of this information and more was not disclosed to the jury in Russell Hill and Carol Clay's trial. He would have been guilty on everything if that had been presented. And it would have taken one day to deliberate. Yeah, not a week. I'm sure there would have been a different outcome. But of course, all of this is now public knowledge and is being shared across news platforms, various.

newspapers um up here i'm like should i do this am i contributing to this but it's fact it's truth like this stuff this happened yeah and because of all this The defense now believes that the well of justice has been poisoned. Because of this, they're like, well, now everybody's public opinion of him is distorted and he's not going to get a fair retrial if he tries to appeal this. So they're trying to apply for this rare legal move, which would delay.

Gregory Lynn's sentence, and it would be highly unusual and even more rare for it to be actually granted. But if it is, it would delay his sentence pending his appeal. So basically, his sentence wouldn't be... So he'd be free until he went back to court. Yeah. And then he would be a flight risk. So as of right now, all of that today, as of right now, he is due in court.

next for his pre-sentence hearing, and that is scheduled for September 12th, so in just about a month or so, where victim impact statements will be provided by Carol Clay's family. That is where I will leave you for the story. It's clearly still unfolding, so it isn't the end, but it's all that I will share with you for now. And if you do want to know more about this case and are looking for a really... nitty-gritty, in-depth

deep dive of it, there's a podcast that I listen to, hours worth, called The Missing Campers Podcast, Where You Should Head. It's created by Erin Pearson and Penelope Learsh, who actually work in newscasting. They're court reporters and journalists and literally break down this case day by day as it has unfolded. They were actually in attendance to a lot of the trial dates and are really heavily involved with this case. So if you want...

more information or more in depth or elaborations on anything I touched on, you should definitely go there. Yeah. And updates, of course, as they come. So yeah, that is the case as of now. Wow. What an interesting true crime story and also really, really horrific. And I am really hoping that Gregory doesn't get released. There's just there's too much surrounding him for him to be innocent of everything. You know, like there's just.

i just i think he's to me no on everything just like no person i don't know i just i don't know of anyone who would be like i'm never going to be believed so let me remove the only thing that will prove my story And why would you go through that links of destruction? Oh, my God. I just taking even the even the human aspect out of it. And the like, these are two people who are loved and.

you know obviously spouses and parents and beloved family members and like you took that away or even if you claim you didn't take it away you were still involved and know what happened to them and for 18 months You don't come forward with any information and just let them suffer and have no idea what happened to their family. Like even that aside, it's just, it's so suspicious. Yeah, I agree. And like, I could understand something along the lines of if he just took off and fled.

and left the scene like out of like the first just like horror of oh my god what just happened you know his story says like he was attacked and all this stuff and it's really stressful and scary i could see like first reaction fleeing and then like coming forward later but like going through so many methodical steps of cleaning things up destroying evidence like traveling so far away to get rid of

them so they're not found is just there's just so many steps of you only are in panic mode for so long after like a horrific event before you like come down and are like oh my god what just actually happened and you can think about it it and he did this for months i mean he went back to the site multiple times months later you know it's just and then his history and

He's a domestic abuser, and that just is very telling. And, of course, the animal aspect, as we all know. And the animal aspect. It's just, if he's willing to do what... allegedly we think he did to his wife like him doing this to a complete stranger is not not out of a ballpark theory i think and yeah yeah i know so that it's something that obviously will we know your stance 100% guilty lock him up throw away the key

Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, it's kind of like it makes you nervous a little bit, you know, knowing now what you this other information that has come to light and knowing that he's. you know potentially going to appeal which could obviously potentially lead to a change in his verdict it's just it's a little scary but um yeah we'll see what happens and um

Obviously, keep an eye on it. They're poor families. I know. Just the fact that he's putting them through all of this to appeal this when they've already been through so much is just not right. And I just think of, I mean, obviously everyone affected is it, it ruins your life, obviously, but especially Robin, she has the added layer of then having to process that her husband was.

having this ongoing affair as well. Like there's like that added layer of the grief process and processing things. And then obviously it's like, but she sympathizes with Carol's family, you know, like they lost somebody.

and it's not you know it's just there's a lot going on but anyway okay and she knew carol too like she knew her even and it sounds like they were at one point in time friendly too so like to know someone that that happens to as well like regardless of the relationship like she knew this person too so there might be some grief even with her loss too it's just for years she thought

she was family so I mean there's that aspect of it too and uh it's just it's very it's very sad all right well that is where we will leave you uh we'll see you next week please enjoy the view But watch your back. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale or story suggestion, send us an email at stories at npadpodcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at National Park After Dark and on Twitter at NP.

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