Finding Healing: A Conversation with Dr. Uejin Kim

Well, Dr.

Kim, welcome to the podcast. How you doing today? Thank you so much for having me, Keith. It's a pleasure to be. I'm looking forward to this conversation. You have an interesting mixture of things that I think are really helpful for today's society. We have a lot of people that are struggling with a bunch of things, so it should be a fun conversation. Yeah, people struggle is my specialty.

And I like to say that I'm a Christian psychiatrist that looks for what's right with you and not what's wrong with you. So I'm excited. Yes. That's a little tagline that I created recently because, you know, I know that, you know, but as we mature and get older, we're constantly reframing what we already know, you know, with the new information that we're maturing. And I. I just love that tagline because I think we all need to hear what's right with us more than what's wrong with us. Right.

Because we always get the negative, don't we? We sure do. So I'm gonna start out with my favorite question for my podcast. Guess what's the best piece of advice you've ever received? I think the best advice is I do this thing with God where we really have a frank conversation with God. And that's something that I really picked up from my grandma, who was so approachable. You know, she was very cerebral and analytical, and I can ask her anything.

And if, you know anything about, you know, Asian culture, like, I was dating this guy when I went study abroad in Africa, and my parents were, like, so against it. It was a little bit delusional because he was in Africa and I was in the United States. But she let me talk about it, you know, and she's a Cold War, you know, World War II grandma. Right. So that really embodies how I talk to God.

And. And you know me as, like, a blossoming public speaker, podcast host, and private practice entrepreneur. All of that. Sometimes it kind of gets discouraging, you know, like, I see other people, like, getting more likes or most more subscriber or they're on stage and I'm not, and. And I'm just kind of like, you know, Brandon Brown is kind of saying the same thing that I'm saying, and I just kind of asked God, like, God, why do you need me to talk? Right.

Like, there's so many people saying the same thing. Who am I to say that? And he told me two things. It was. Number one was you. Yeah, Eugene, everyone who's wise speaks the Same. Because wisdom is the same, and there's no new wisdom out there. Like, wisdom is finite, but at the same time, I'm the author of wisdom. So you don't need to listen to other people to get more wise. You just need to talk to me. That was first thing.

And the second thing that I'm trying to still practice right now is there was one Asian American speaker. And, you know, when you can kind of relate to the speaker, you kind of. It's like you're happy for them, but at the same time, it's like, why not me? Kind of question, you know, And. And I was like, well, she's my age, she's Asian American, all that stuff.

And God really challenged me, like, what would it take for you to not compare yourself to other people, but, like, celebrate that they're doing. They're, you know, they're living out their calling. And that's, you know, Dr. Keith, like, if I were to be honest, like, I'm here as a psychiatrist and an expert in a sense, but I'm also a human being with same imposter syndrome, same doubt, same. You know, like, what was so stupid? Like, what am I doing?

You know, there's always that kind of self doubt. But that's something that I'm really working on right now, is kind of stay in my lane and use my gifts and use my story. And I know that he's gonna do great things. Yeah, and that's important because the important thing about that, too, is other people may be saying the same thing, but no one says it quite the way. You can and doesn't have the impact on the people's lives that you connect with.

So while it may be the same message, because wisdom is, you know, like you said, finite, but coming from you as opposed to coming from me. What the audience you have versus my audience, they still need to hear it and need a messenger to give that to them. So you have a unique place that. And a connection other people don't. Yeah, absolutely. And. And I say that because I love being vulnerable, you know, as somebody who's on the podium or as a provider, like healthcare provider.

But I'm on the other side too, you know, sometimes. So I like being authentic and vulnerable with my stories. And you're right, because there are. Sometimes I'm really excited about my story because now it makes sense that the trauma that I endured, you know, like a childhood, maybe attention def.

Like, attention neglect, sexual trauma that I went to, you know, medical school, psychiatry, being a child psychiatrist, not being a mom you know, being married and a human being, all that is like a full circle. So it's a very unique every. I think everybody's in a unique advantage point when it comes to living out your story. So, yeah, definitely, I agree with you 110%. That's true. So who are some people in your life who served to be a mentor for you or maybe inspire you along your journey?

Definitely God touching all aspects of my story. And that was a power of therapy and very introspective work that I had to do where no stone was left unturned, you know, and I'm. I'm that kind of intense person that when it comes, if I said I'm gonna know my story, like, I'm gonna know my story. You know what I mean? Like, Right. I'm not afraid to go to the dark places. And God was really with me, just guiding me every single one, you know, step of the way. And I, I110.

He was that fatherly voice that I never had who went to the dark places with me. In Dark Stories, I mentioned my grandma. There's so many people that got placed for a season just to say the right thing. And maybe I'm not, you know, close with them now, but I just want, like, to thank them that they were a vessel of wisdom and comfort, you know, every step of the way. That's great. So tell us about your journey. What inspired you to get into Restore Psychiatry?

Yeah, so Restore Psychiatry is my private practice. And I recently started my kind of like a community education kind of online course, LLC called Eugene Kim LLC. I don't know, Dr. Keith, like, when you go to school and you graduate from high school and college, you leave and you hit the real world and you're like, school did not teach me that. Right. I had that moment when I graduated from my child psychiatry fellowship where, so I got my first job. You know, it was during then it was Covid.

So it was a telesy job. And I was serving underserved area in Virginia. But corporate psychiatry, it was very evident earlier on that it was catering to the payee, which is a clinic. And it was. Even though they promised, like, hey, we'll give you autonomy, we'll let you practice the way that you want to. The reality was that because the clinic is paying and the clinic is underserved and overstretched, right? Like, it was making me and asking me to do things that I was not comfortable with.

Just like, like seeing a teenager and prescribing medications and giving diagnosis without parent present. Because parents working two jobs, right? And I understand the concerns, but like, I was like, at least for an intake, you can show up and then I can get the fuller story, you know, so that's just an example of corporate psychiatry. And. And at the same time, in my personal life, I was digging up the stones of my trauma in my childhood, and I was a patient and a client of a therapist.

Therapist. And at that same time, I was quickly finding out as a young psychiatrist, like, oh, I don't know if corporate psychiatry is for me. And at the same time, I was kind of finding out that my faith was such a huge part of holding my hand through going through therapy.

And God really challenged me to say, hey, if I'm such a big part of your healing journey and you're not, but you're not saying that or being open to that if the patient wants it, like, aren't you holding out on your patients by not giving that spiritual care? And that was like, oh, yeah, I guess I will be holding back. And that really only private practice was a setting that would allow me to have that freedom to be open and available spiritually, you know, as a psychiatrist.

And a psychiatrist sharing her faith or even opening the realm of spiritual care is very unexplored at this point. So I am kind of pioneering in my own way to figure out what that means. So private practice has been a really great avenue for me to explore how this all fits. So that's why I started the private practice.

So, Eugene, how do you meld those two things together? Because when we think about spirituality and mental health, oftentimes those are just two totally different worlds. So how do you meld together? How do you bridge the gap between those two? Right. And. And I loved your question because it kind of made me think about the puzzle pieces. So we think that they're so different because mental health, we think is self care is, you know, is getting pedicures.

And it's like venting about your parents and, you know, all that stuff. Right. And it seems so opposite. Or taking meds, taking the happy pills. Right? That's. That's what we. Has a connotation about what mental health care is. And, and spiritual care is just serving church, you know, doing volunteer work or being part of the group. And. But at the same time, how I visualize it is spiritual care is answering the questions of do I belong? Where's my worth? You know, like, what's my purpose?

And these are big questions that we are all thirsty for. And mental health really is a health of the mind. So how I like to kind of bridge the two together is if we are all. If our life is a car. I'm not a car mechanic, savvy person, but how I imagine is. Is in a car, a spiritual health is the driver. You know, like you're, you're. You know, your destination, you know the way around, you know your value, you know, you know how to drive, all these skills.

And I think really, mental health is the condition of the engine. It's. Is it running well? You know, are you putting in the right gasoline for that car? You know, are the pistons working? Is it firing? Is it strong? Because it's health of the mind. So I really like to bridge that too. And when I see my patients or just talk to anybody in a community health talks, I evaluate how their mind is functioning. Like, is it too fast, like out of control?

Or are they grasping every single feeling, thoughts that they are having so that they can process it? So that's one end, and the other one is like, what do they see themselves as worthy and valuable, you know, and has a purpose in life? So that's my spiritual health assessment. And you really need both sense of health to really flourish and just live like there's no tomorrow. So when you're dealing with people, especially Christians, I think we struggle sometimes with the why question.

When you're going in for mental health issues and maybe some things in your life have not gone well, maybe you have dealt with sexual abuse. The question, the spirituality piece really gets complicated. It's like, where was God at in this? Why do people not see value in me? Why do people treat me like this if I'm a child of God?

So as a pastor, when I try to deal with people who've had, you know, issues in their life, connecting those two together begins to be really complicated because they're questioning their own existence. And where was God when these terrible things were happening? So how do you help people process that? As a psychiatrist? Right. And. And these are something that you're definitely an expert at as this existential questions of like, why is there brokenness? Why is there pain? Right. For sure.

So as a psychiatrist, I've heard a lot of stories of brokenness and pain. And when you hear enough stories of pain, you start to see patterns. And as a Christian, how I merge the two is there's a lot of things happening on earth that God is not happy about, you know, and that is the state of the fallen world. And. And he's not happy about that. So the merging thing is is when somebody went through trauma and they're like, where was God in this? Right.

We have so many scriptures that God is so angry at the brokenness, at the state of this world, you know, and that he's the God of justice and he says, just wait, I will redeem every single pain that you have. And I think that's the merge of a father who's so angry that you got hurt and a father who will do everything and more to make that right. So that is the truth. But still there's that pain right here, right now, like, I can't wait to, you know, God to come through.

And that pain, how I like to see it is that a lot of times, you know, there are so many cases, I'm a child psychiatrist, so I talk to a lot of kids with who got abused or neglected by their parents, you know, even adult patients, we talk about their childhood and how they got abused and neglected by their parents. And a lot of times as a kid, naturally when something painful happens, the pain and the blame fell on them, if you know what I mean.

And what I like to do is that deal with the pain, but remove the blame. Like, it was not your fault as a minor to be treated like this like you do. You weren't too annoying to get slapped in the face, right. Like you weren't. Some 5 year olds got told that they're hypersexual and that's why they got raped. Right. So I kind of bring that sense of justice of like, yes, you got hurt and there's pain, but any blaming voices that inside your head, that is not true.

So alleviating the, the burden of blame and when they know, oh, it was not my fault, I was wrongfully hurt, but it was not my fault. That even gives them so much healing knowing that they don't have to carry two burden, you know, I can just carry on. And that brings a lot of healing and relief. I love that. So give me an example of how you have done this in your practice. Maybe a situation that you were kind of helping bridge those two gaps together.

Yeah. So for an example, so whenever I talked about trauma, you know, I say it's not your fault. How I like to do it is I was thinking about this, right? For me to provide mental and spiritual health care, I had to know my spiritual story. So that came with a lot of foundational understanding of spiritual realm that's, you know, explained by the Bible, you know, so I had to study the Bible, you know, front and back a few times to, to really get it and analyze it and understand it.

But then at the same time, I had to go through my own therapy, like I said, you know, like, and explore all the things. But, you know, what's the beautiful thing about spiritual health is that when you're a child, that's when you're most spiritual, if you know what I mean, like, untainted spiritual. And I really conceptualize this as my spiritual health is my little Eugene living inside, you know, And I had to be in tune with my little Eugene all the time.

And I. Now that I'm fully healed and free to use my strength, it's. It's really cute and weird at the same time, but I really sense that whenever I hear people's stories, it's not just me, analytical brain listening, but little Eugene is listening, too. And she's like, oh, I know how that kid feels inside, right? Or like, oh, that kid, you know, little patient inside them must have felt like this. And I really touch on that, you know, And.

And I say you're describing a horrible incident, but you're not really changing your emotions, right? But I also sense that you're tired, or I sense that you're still really angry about what happened, you know, so I'm really channeling in my spiritual sense to connect with their spiritual sense so that they feel seen, they feel heard, and they feel felt maybe for the first time.

Being a pastor, one of the things I find most powerful is using biblical stories to help people understand the bigger picture. Do you do that in your practice as well? Kind of share biblical examples and stories to kind of help people process information, Information and maybe trauma. I love to. I can't volunteer biblical stories because I want to be respectful for where their journey was, you know, with the Bible, or maybe they had church trauma, right? So I don't want to volunteer that.

But once I got the sense, or they asked me, or they. They hear my podcast and they know that I talk about the Bible story, so they're like, hey, can you tell me more about that? Or, you know, know. So patients ask me, and when they ask me, I love to share that. And I think I have a unique perspective on biblical stories, because I don't know about you, but when I grew up, it was very black and white, you know, oh, Jonah's stupid. He got angry and he's not unforgiving, Right?

Or Martha is an overworker. She's always bitter and tired, you know, and. Or the Pharisees are bad. They're stupid. They didn't get it. And Israelites are stupid in the desert, you know, like we just did it a black and white, you know, where as a psychiatrist, I kind of look at their mental health and spiritual health of each biblical characters.

So one thing that I recently discovered, because I, I always told myself that I'm a Martha, you know, versus Mary, I'm always the get it done girl, you know, and, and one thing that I found about Martha was when she first met Jesus and this big crowd that he's carrying, she invited everybody for, you know, a dinner party, right? And. And when I kind of dig through the origin of the language and the commentaries, she was doing what she was supposed to do when she invites people over.

She invited people over for dinner party. And it's her. It's the expectation that matron of the house will serve food. Matron being Martha and Mary. But I was just kind of imagining, you know, big crowds were following Jesus, right? So you don't know how many people she actually invited over. And then she's getting tired, she's getting burnt out, you know, and she's know, bitter and stuff like that. And it really hit me because sometimes I'm like, Martha, I bite.

I invite people, I bite more than I can chew. And I'm trying to meet the expectations that I created for myself. And I'm getting burnt out and I'm angry at everybody. So, you know, Jesus saying you're. And the word is you're distracted about so many things, AKA expectations of other people and expectations set by yourself. The real deal is here, you don't have to meet expectations of other people. You just need to be with me.

And that really hit the core because, you know, you have three podcasts, right? Dr. Keith and I have all these things going on, and I'm like creating expectations of myself, that each of them has to be successful and stuff like that. And God really cuts it to the traces. Like, I don't expect that from you, you know, I just expect that. I just expect you to be here with me. And that really just grounds me. And I just love understanding and reading stories like that.

So you have a book there, Psychological People of the Bible. Oh, yeah, that would be so awesome. You just go through a diagnose, you know, what was Paul's problem? Oh, yeah, Paul and I are like, very similar too, because I don't know if you're familiar with enneagram, but I'm enneagram1. I'm the improver, so I never stop, you know, and my mom has a gift of Bible teaching too. And, you know, we revere Paul, like, so smart, so wise and stuff.

And she pointed out to me, even when she was young, she said, you know, he died alone. You know, like was a lot of arguments that, you know, he got into. Right. So he was very intense person. And I was just like, oh, I didn't even think about that. So I think she kind of lend me that Bible teaching, you know, Bible studying kind of genes. That's so cool. So tell us about your podcast. It's like this, why you start it and what. What kind of content do you cover on your podcast?

Yeah, so I started it. I started the podcast as it's like this podcast now is renamed to Good News Mental Health, and I'll explain that. But it started as it's like this podcast because I always had stories and analogies to explain to people, even when I was young. So if you can imagine me as a college student, like, I don't have it all together. I still partied. I made my mistakes. But my friends always came to me for advice, and I would use analogies to explain.

Well, dating is like chemistry, like pro, you know, protons and oh my gosh, I'm dating myself, electrons, you know, those things. And I'm using what I'm learning in college to explain to them what dating, you know, should be or should not be. Right. So this coined the term amongst my friends as eugenisms. Like, oh, Eugene has eugenisms. It just makes sense, you know, And I really carry that spirit to teach my patients, you know, things about mental health and depression like that.

And I use analogies. And I realized I'm saying a lot of the same things. And I was like, oh, why don't I make it into a podcast so that they can listen to it at home and we can discuss it once they come back. So that's how it started as it's like this podcast.

I recently rebranded it to Good News Mental Health because I felt like the calling that I had was really provide this level of clarity between mental health and spiritual health for the body of Christ, because I realized that if Body of Christ, each part realized their strength and let go of the baggages and really be whole and healed. It can be a beautiful thing. So that's my passion.

So I rebranded it to Good News Mental Health so that I can debunk a lot of myths that happened at church, you know, that I experienced and, you know, a lot of other people experience and really bring a structure and order and understanding from the Bible. So what are some common misconceptions you've run across from the work that you do.

I think there's continue to be all, all or nothing or black and white thinking about mental health, that if you take medications then you're following the devil or you're weak or you're giving up, you know, and really by the medication is just one part of the healing process. And I think, I hope that the listeners kind of understand how I view mental and spiritual health that we're just now talking about medicine. Medicine is a very small part of the healing journey.

A lot of the other ones is knowing your story and, and inviting healing into your life and inviting understanding into your life and being seen. So that being said, really, biochemical imbalance is a very small part of healing.

The other ones are, oh, when I go to a therapist and psychiatrist, they're just going to reject family and trauma, you know, and everything is trauma nowadays, you know, and they're just going to excommunicate your parents because you don't understand and they're ungrateful. So again, just all or nothing thinking. The really, the part of the healing process that comes is that everybody has to accept their reality and their responsibility.

And there's something to be said about saying, I know that my parents tried their best, but it still hurts sometimes. And that's the truth. And it's okay to say that. So when the leaders of the church or the parents are insecure to hear that, that's not the child's responsibility to make sure that they feel okay about themselves. So that's what I like to kind of say, is that there is a level of truth that needs to come out and make it fair for all parties. I was talking to someone who was.

Who doesn't work in a mental health aspect and they said unlike physical issues, it's harder to measure. And so insurance companies don't like to cover it because it's not a exact science. So how do you measure progress in the mental health area? Yeah, and that's definitely true. There's no blood work for, you know, mental health that, you know, hemoglobin will see, you're diabetic and stuff like that. So we have this book of criteria called DSM 5 and they try to quantify it as much as possible.

So 5 out of 7 characters of depression over 6 months period of time with this level of dysfunction. So we can try to quantify it as much as possible. So that's how we get diagnosed and we sense what medications work best for each symptoms or for diagnosis.

But the Coolest part that I measure progress is I wrote down a few stories, is a combat veteran that no longer sleeps with a knife next to his bed, you know, or a girl who was so anxious about social anxiety because she has scoliosis and she went to a rock concert and better yet, participate in the mosh pit and push the girl away because the girl was trying to encroach in her space, you know what I mean?

Or. Or a girl who was taking 30 supplements because she wasn't sure what she was missing out on, you know, and she just didn't know what she was missing. She went from 30 to 11 supplements. That is fitting for her and she can just kind of let go and say, okay, I'll figure it out later. So those are the progresses and stories that is worth celebrating. And the coolest part about me being their psychiatrist is that I'm seeing them every, you know, few months.

So I'm jumping and seeing the progress. You know, they're living with themselves every day. So it's kind of hard to tell sometimes, right? But I'm seeing them every month or every three months and I'm like looking back in my nose and I often do this and I'm like, hey, like a year ago you were saying this and now you're going to rock concert because by yourself, you know, or. Or you're bringing down 30 supplements to 11. So I really remind them, like, this is where you were at.

Like, this is awesome. And they were like, you know what? I never thought of it like that. And you're true. So those are my celebration, those are my progress stories. That just keeps me coming back to help more people. As you think about where you are right now, what are some professional goals you have set aside for yourself? Yeah. So exciting thing is that I'm realizing I'm a girl of efficiency. I'm the get it done girl and I'm also girl of efficiency.

So I know that I'm very limited in seeing patients, you know, one to one or coaching one to one.

And what I'm working on right now is to really extract the eugenism that I've gathered being a psychiatrist and also a human being into an online course so that, you know, while it doesn't replace the. The lengthy therapist, you know, but it's going to be a really good jumpstart to connect that mental health piece and also spiritual health piece and really get in touch with yourself.

So the course is coming out and spring of 2025, and it's going to be called Be still to move forward and it's going to teach the therapy techniques that really works to get in touch with your inner child spirit. I love that. So I love to ask my guest this question. What do you want your legacy to be? I want my legacy is I want people to know what it feels like to be a child of God and what God is like as a father and who he's not.

And there's a lot of myths, there's a lot of misconceptions about what that feels like. And we say that he's a perfect father, but we don't know what perfect father is like, like what it feels like. So I want to really bring that to life as a legacy and to let people know that he forgives. He holds your hand, he doesn't let you down. You know, he picks you back up when you're down, he gives you perspectives and he's always there. And what does that feel like? So that's my legacy. Great.

As you wrap up this amazing conversation, what key takeaways do you want to leave with the audience? I just hope that, you know, like I kind of touched on is that your healing journey is not all about meds. It's not all about therapy. It's not all about church. It's everything. And that as you heard me share my story or my patient stories or biblical character story, human experience is pretty much the same. And that you're not alone and that you don't have to figure it out alone.

And that's what I hope that your audience will get out of this talk. That's great. Well, Dr. Kim, thank you so much. Where can people connect with you on social media? Absolutely. I'll provide you, Dr. Keith, with my links and you can follow me on my podcast, my YouTube and there's a link tree. There will be a lot of links that you can kind of come check me out and stay in tune with what's coming up.

And best yet, I was just going to ask your audience, when you listen to my podcast on YouTube, if you can give me a feedback and email me @Hi, Eugene kim.com that will give me so much more material and so much more connection to my audience. So. Or if you didn't like the podcast, you can tell me too and give me feedback on that. So I'm all open, open years for that. Well, thanks so much for being on. You have a great.