Outwitting the Devil by Napoleon Hill, nineteen thirty eight, Chapter three, A Strange Interview with the Devil. While you are reading the Interview with the Devil, you will recognize from the brief description I have given you of the history of my life what a deparent effort the Devil made to muzzle me before I gained public recognition. You will understand also, after reading the Interview with the Devil, why the interview had to be preceded by this personal history of my
background. Before you begin to read the interview, I want you to have a clear picture of the final fling the devil had at me, and be it remembered with prophet that it was this final fling which gave Mercy a chance to turn and twist the Devil's tail until he squealed out his confession. The Devil's undoing began with the Depression in nineteen twenty nine. Through that fortunate turn of the wheel of life, I lost my six hundred acre estate in the
Catskill Mountains. My income was entirely cut off. The Harriman National Bank, in which all my funds were top posited, folded up and was wiped out Before I realized what was happening. I found myself caught up in a spiritual and economic hurricane, which evolved into a world wide catastrophe of such force that
no individual or group of individuals could withstand it. While waiting for the storm to cease and the stampede of human fear to stop, I moved to Washington, d C. The city from which I made my start after my first meeting with Andrew Carnegie nearly a quarter of a century previously. There seemed nothing for me to do except sit down and wait. All I had was time. After three years of waiting without tangible results, my restless soul began to
push me back into service. There was little opportunity for me to teach a philosophy of success when the world around me was in the midst of abject failure and men's minds were filled with the fear of poverty. This thought came to me one evening while I was sitting in my automobile in front of the Lincoln Memorial on the Potomac River, within the shadow of the Capital. With it came another thought. The world had staged an unprecedented depression over which no human
being had control. With that depression had come to me an opportunity to test the philosophy of self determination to the organization of which I had devoted the better portion of my adult life. Once more, I had the opportunity to learn whether my philosophy was practical or mere theory. I realized too the opportunity had come to test a claim I had made hundreds of times that every adversity brings with it the seed of an equivalent advantage. What if any, I asked
myself, were the advantages to me of a world depression. When I began to look for a direction in which I might move to test my philosophy, I made the most shocking discovery of my life. I discovered that, through some strange power which I did not understand, I had lost my courage.
My initiative had been demoralized, my enthusiasm had been weakened. Worst of all, I was sorely ashamed to acknowledged that I was the author of a philosophy of self determination, because down deep in my heart I knew or thought I knew that I could not make my philosophy pull me out of the whole of despair in which I found myself. While I floundered in a state of mental
bewilderment. The devil must have been dancing a jig of rejoicing. At last he had the author of the world's first philosophy of individual achievement pinned under his thumb and paralyzed with indecision. But the Devil's opposition must have been at work too. As I sat there in front of the Lincoln Memorial, reviewing him retrospect the circumstances which had so many times previously lifted me to great heights of
achievement, only to let me drop to equal depths of despair. A happy thought was handed over to me, in the form of a definite plan of action by which I believed I could throw off that hypnotic feeling of indifference with which I had been bound. In the interview with the Devil, the exact nature of the power by which I had been deprived of my initiative and courage has been described. It is the same power with which millions of others were
bound during the Great Depression. It is the chief weapon with which the devil ensnares and controls human beings. The sum and substance of this thought which came to me was this despite the fact that I had learned from Andrew Carnegie and more than five hundred others of equal business and professional achievements, that noteworthy achievements in all walks of life come through the application of the master mind, the
harmonious coordination of two or more minds working to a definite end. I had failed to make such an alliance for the purpose of carrying out my plan to take the philosophy of individual achievement to the world. Despite the fact I had understood the power of the master mind, I had neglected to appropriate and use this power. I had been laboring as a lone wolf instead of allying myself with other and superior minds. An analysis. Let us now briefly analyze the
strange interview you are about to begin. Some who read I want to ask after they finish it, did you really interview the devil? Or did you merely interview an imaginary devil. Some may wish the answer to this question before they begin the interview. I will answer in the only truthful way I could answer, by saying that the devil I interviewed may have been real just as he claimed to be, or he may have been the creation of my own
imagination. Whichever he was, whether real or imaginary, is of little importance compared with the nature of the information conveyed through the interview. The important question is this, does the interview convey dependable information which may be helpful to people who are trying to find their places in the world. If it conveys that sort of information, no matter whether it is conveyed in the form of fact
or fiction, then it is worthy of serious analysis through careful reading. I am not concerned in the least as to the real source of the information, or as to the real nature of the devil whose astounding story you are about to read. I am concerned only with the fact that the devil's confession squares perfectly with what I have seen of life. I believe the Interview does convey information of practical benefit to all who have not found life to be friendly.
And the reason I believe so is the fact that I have made the central theme of this book yield to me all the happiness I need in the form best suited to my nature. I have had experience with enough of the principles mentioned by the devil to assure me that they will do exactly what he says, they will. That is enough for me. So I pass the story of the interview on to you for whatever you may be able to make it
pay in useful dividends. Perhaps you will get the greatest values if you accept the Devil as being what he claims himself to be, relying upon his message for whatever it may bring you that you can use, and not worrying as to who the Devil is or whether he exists. If you want my honest personal opinion, I believe the Devil is exactly who he claims to be.
Now let us analyze his strange confession. After forcing his way into the consciousness of the Devil, mister Earthbound began the unwilling interview with questions which could not be evaded. Here begins the interview with the Devil. I have uncovered the secret code by which I can pick up your thoughts. I have come to ask you some very plain questions. I demand that you give me direct and truthful answers. Are you ready for the interview, mister Devil? Yes,
I am ready, but you must address me with more respect. During this interview. You will address me as your majesty. By what right do you demand such royal respect. You should know I control ninety eight percent of the people of your world. Do you not think that entitles me to rate as royalty? Have you proof of your claim? Yes, plenty of it? Of what does your proof consist? Of? Many things? If you want answers, you will address me as your majesty. Some things you will understand
you will not. In order that you may get my viewpoint, I shall describe myself and correct the false notions people have of me and my place of abode. That is a fine idea, Your majesty, start by telling me where you live. Then describe your physical appearance, my physical appearance. Why, my dear mister earthbound, I have no physical body. I would be handicapped by such an encumbrance as those in which you earth bound creatures live.
I consist of negative energy, and I live in the minds of people who fear me. I also occupy one half of every atom of physical matter and every unit of mental and physical energy. Perhaps you will better understand my nature if tell you I am the negative portion of the atom. Oh, I see what you are preparing to claim. You are laying the foundation to say that if it were not for you, there would be no world, no stars, no electrons, no atom no human beings. Nothing. Is that
correct? True? Absolutely true? Well, if you only occupy one half of energy and matter, who occupies the other half? The other half is occupied by my opposition? Opposition? What do you mean? The opposition is what you earth bound call God? So you have the universe divided up with God? Is that your claim? Not my claim, but the actual fact. Before this interview is finished, you will understand why my claim is true.
You will also understand why it has to be true, or there could be no world such as yours, no earth bound creatures such as you. I am no beast with a forked tongue and a spiked tail. But you do control the minds of ninety eight out of every one hundred people. You said, so yourself. Who causes all the misery in this ninety eight percent controlled world? If you do not, I have not said that I do not cause all the misery of the world. On the other hand, I
boast of it. It is my business to represent the negative side of everything, including the thoughts of you earthbound people. How else could I control people? My opposition controls positive thought, I control negative thought. How do you gain control of the minds of people. Oh, that is easy. I merely move in and occupy the unused space of the human brain. I sow the seeds of negative thought in the minds of people, so I can occupy
and control the space. You must have many tricks and devices by which you gain and hold control of the human mind. To be sure, I employ tricks and devices to control human thought. My devices are clever ones too. Go ahead and describe your clever tricks, your majesty. One of my cleverest devices for mind control is fear. I plant the seed of fear in the minds of people, and as these seeds germinate and grow through use, I
control the space they occupy. The six most effective fears are the fear of poverty, criticism, ill health, loss of love, old, age, and death. Which of these six fears serves you most often, your majesty, The first and the last poverty and death. At one time or another during life, I tighten my grip on all people through one or both of these. I plant these fears in the minds of people so deftly that they
believe them to be their own creation. I accomplish this end by making people believe I am standing just beyond the entrance gate of the next life, waiting to claim them after death for eternal punishment. Of course, I cannot punish anyone except in that person's own mind through some form of fear. But fear of the thing which does not exist is just as useful to me as fear of that which does exist. All forms of fear extend the space I occupy
in the human mind. Your majesty, will you explain how you gained this control over human beings. The story is too long to be told in a few words. It began over a million years ago when the first man began to think. Up to that time, I had control over all mankind. But enemies of mind discovered the power of positive thought, placed it in the minds of men, and then began a battle on my part to remain in control. So far, I have done quite well by myself, having lost
only two percent of the people to the opposition. I take it from your answer that men who think are your enemies. Is that right? It is not right, but it is correct. Tell me something more about the world in which you live. I live wherever I choose. Time and space do not exist. For me, I am a force best described to you as energy. My favorite physics dwelling place, as I have told you, is the minds of the earth bound. I control a part of the brain space
of every human being. The amount of space I occupy in each individual's mind depends upon how little and what sort of thinking that person does. As I have told you, I cannot entirely control any person who thinks you speak of your opposition. What do you mean by that? My opponent controls all the positive forces of the world, such as love, faith, hope, and
optimism. My opponent also controls the positive factors of all natural law throughout the universe, the forces which keep the Earth and the planets and all the stars balanced in their courses. But these forces are meek in comparison with those which operate in the human mind under my control. You see, I do not seek to control stars and planets. I prefer the control of human minds. Where did you acquire your power and by what means do you add to it?
I add to my power by appropriating the mind power of the earth bound as they come through the gate at the time of death. Ninety eight out of every one hundred who come back to my plane from the earth plane, are taken over by me, and their mind power is added to my being. I get all who come over with any form of fear. You see, I am constantly at work preparing the minds of people before death so I
can appropriate them when they come back to my plane. Will you tell me how you go about your job of preparing human minds so you can control them. I have countless ways of gaining control of human minds while they are still on the earth plane. My greatest weapon is poverty. I deliberately discourage people from accumulating material wealth because poverty discourages men from thinking and makes them easy prey for me. My next best friend is ill health. An unhealthy body discourages
thinking. Then have countless thousands of workers on Earth who aid me in gaining control of human minds. I have these agents placed in every calling. They represent every race and creed, every religion. Who are your greatest enemies on Earth? Your majesty, All who inspire people to think and act on their own initiative are my enemies, such men as Socrates, Confucius, Voltaire, Emerson, Thomas Paine, and Abraham Lincoln. And you are not doing me
any good either. Is it true that you use men who have great wealth? As I have already told you, poverty is always my friend because it discourages independence of thought and encourages fear in the minds of men. Some wealthy men serve my cause, while others do me great damage, depending upon how the wealth is used. The great Rockefeller Fortune, for example, is one of my worst enemies. That is interesting, your majesty, Will you tell
me why you fear the Rockefeller fortune more than others. The Rockefeller money is being used to isolate and conquer diseases of the physical body in all parts of the world. Disease has always been one of my most effective weapons. The fear of ill health is second only to the fear of poverty. The Rockefeller money is uncovering new secrets of nature in a hundred different directions, all of which are designed to help men take and keep possession of their own minds.
It is encouraging new and better methods of feeding, clothing, and housing people. It is wiping out the slums in the large cities, the places where my favorite allies are found. It is financing campaigns for better government and helping to wipe out dishonesty in politics. It is helping to set higher standards in business practice and encouraging business men to conduct business by the golden rule, and that is not doing my cause any good. What about these boys and girls
who are said to be on the road to hell? Are you in control of them? Well? I can answer that question only with yes and no. I have corrupted the minds of the young by teaching them to drink and smoke, but they have me baffled through their tendency to think for themselves. You say you have corrupted the minds of the young people with liquor and cigarettes. I can understand how liquor might destroy the power of independent thought, but
do not see what cigarettes have to do with helping your cause. You may not know it, but cigarettes break down the power of persistence. They destroy the power of endurance, They destroy the ability to concentrate, They deaden and undermine the imaginative faculty, and help in other ways to keep people from using their minds most effectively, do you know I have millions of people, young and old, of both sexes who smoke two packages of cigarettes a day.
That means I have millions of people who are gradually destroying their power of resistance. One day I shall add to their habit of cigarettes, smoking other thought destroying habits until I shall have gained control of their minds. Habits come in pairs, triplets, and quadruplets. Any habit which weakens ones will power invites a flock of its relatives to move in and take possession of the mind. The cigarette habit not only lowers the power of resistance and discourages persistence, but
it invites looseness in other human relationships. I never thought that cigarettes were a tool of destruction, your majesty, but your explanation throws a different light on the subject. How many converts to the habit do you now claim? I am proud of my record. Millions are now victims, and the number is increasing daily. Soon I shall have most of the world indulging in the habit. In thousands of families, I now have followers of the habit, including
every member of the family. Very young boys and girls are beginning to take up the habit. They are learning how to smoke by observing their parents and older brothers and sisters. Which do you consider to be your greater tool for gains in control of human mind, cigarettes or liquor without hesitation, I would
say cigarettes. Once I get a young person to join my two package a day club, I have no trouble in inducing that person to take on the habit of liquor, over indulgence of sex, and all other related habits which destroy independence of thought and action. Your majesty, when I began this interview, I had you all wrong. I thought you were a fraud and a fake. But I see now that you are quite real and very powerful.
Your apology is accepted, but you need not have bothered. Millions of people have questioned my power, and I got most of them at the gate as they came over. I ask no person to believe in me. I prefer to that people fear me. I am no beggar. I take what I want by cleverness and force. Begging people to believe is the business of my
opposition, not mine. Your majesty, will please pardon my rudeness, But I would not be able to to look myself in the face again if I did not tell you here and now that you are the damnest fiend ever to be turned loose on innocent people. I always had the wrong conception of you. I thought you were kind enough to let people alone while they were living,
that you merely tortured their souls after death. Now I learn, from your own brazen confession that you destroy their right to freedom of thought and cause them to go through a living hell on earth. What do you have to say to that I get what I want by exercising self control. It is not so good for my own business, But I suggest you emulate me instead of criticizing me. You call yourself a thinker, and you are otherwise you
would never have forced this interview on me. But you will never be the sort of thinker that frightens me unless you gain and exercise greater control over your own emotions. Let us get away from personalities. I came here to learn more about you, not to discuss myself. Please please go ahead and tell me of the many tricks you have devised for gaining control of the human mind. What is your most powerful weapon? Just now? That is a difficult
question to answer. I have so many devices for entering human minds and controlling them that it is difficult to say which are the most powerful. Right at the moment, I am trying to bring about another world war. My friends here in Washington are helping me to involve America in the war. If I can start the world to killing on a wholesale basis, I shall be able to put into operation my favorite device for mine control. It is what you
may call mass fear. I used this device to bring about the Other World War in nineteen fourteen. I used it to bring about the economic depression in nineteen twenty nine, and if my opposition had not double crossed me, I would now be in possession of every man, woman and child in the world. You can see for yourself how near I came to world domination, the thing I have been struggling to attain for thousands of years. Yes, I
see your point. Who wouldn't you are a very ingenious manipulator of the minds of people. Is your devilish business carried on only through people of high position and great influence? Oh No, I use the minds of people in all walks of life. As a matter of fact, I prefer the type of person who makes no pretense of thinking. I can manipulate that sort of person without difficulty. I could not control ninety eight percent of the people of the
world if all people were skilled in thinking for themselves. I am interested in the welfare of those people whom you claim to control. Therefore, I wish you to tell me all of the tricks by which you enter and control their minds. I want a complete confession from you, So begin with your cleverest trick. This is suicide you are forcing on me, but I am helpless. So settle down, and I will place in your hands the weapon by which millions of your fellow earth bound will defend themselves against me.