Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind. We pursue wisdom in the past between primary secondary worlds. I'm your host, Andrew Snyder, and I am always grateful for your company. For some good news, I'm recording quite a few interviews these days, and so we're going to have an episode each week of November instead of our normal every other week schedule.
For this episode, I had a conversation with Aaron Barr, who was on the show a while back alongside David Rowe as we discussed Tlkien short story Farmer Giles of Ham and so you can go back in and listen to that if you're interested as well. Aaron is the author of a joyful outpost exploring the household economy of the Beavers from the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and Erin, by the way, is also a patron and so he's clearly a man who has his life put together.
His book is a great read, and it's a fairly quick read at that, and so I definitely think that you should pick it up. Well, nowl'se go ahead and jump into our conversation. I would like to welcome Aaron Bear back to the show. It's been a little while. Last time we discussed Farmer Giles of Ham along with David Rowe, and so it's been a little while. Why don't you go ahead and just remind us a little bit about kind of who you are and you can throw in there what brought you to Lewis as well?
Yeah for sure. Well, first off, thanks for having me on. I got the invite back, which is always the test, right, so right, grateful to have another chance to chat with you and talk about the Beaver Book I call it. But yeah, I am a school teacher in Utah. I've been teaching at the school I'm Att's in middle school.
It was my fifth year there. I teach language arts for ninth grade and seventh grade, and so my ninth graders we actually just started reading George Orwell's Animal Farm for the year, which is actually kind of fun on the eve of an election. And then my seventh graders are about to start at Shakespeare play, which is always fun because we we grab costumes from our drama teacher and dress up and have a good time with that.
Wonderful I remember my day's doing Julius Caesar in middle or high school and doing dress up and it's a good time.
Oh yeah, It's always memorable for the students. So I was trying to make Shakespeare fun. You know a lot of kids at that age when they when they read Shakespeare, like I hate reading him, and so any avenue you can use to you know, kind of make it a little bit lighter, a little more fun for them. It's it's definitely a worthy adventure. Yeah. What else. Uh, I'm I'm a father of three worth on the way as well,
coming in in this next spring. I've been married to my wife of nine years, and I'm deacon up my church and been able to teach classes for people who are either newer to our church in particular or to the Christian faith in general, and so I've been very thankful to serving that capacity. Uh. Probably probably enough about me turning to Lewis, though, you know, I I haven't influenced by Lewis for for a very long time. Growing up, I was very taken with the Narnia chronicles, especially the Lion,
the Witch, and the Wardrobe. And then when I got older, may being a young adult, I's gotten too as apologetic. So I think of, like, you know, mere Christianity, screw tape letters, but even some of his stuff on the Christian life too, like a like a letter to Malcolm that's excellent. I was really taken with with with those as a young adult, and as I started pursuing a career in teaching, I really got into his literary stuff, so gar and criticism, the discard image essays like on stories.
I was really taken with those, and they're really they He's really shaped my thinking on a lot of different things. You probably can agree to that, oh.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh. Currently I'm working on a piece in regards to the Fairy Queen, so I'm reading some of Lewis's stuff on on that. So his couple of works, his big book on sixteenth century literature, and then another smaller one where it's like a series of lectures called Spencer's Images of Life. So I'm always essentially I always have a steady diet of Lewis in my life.
I think that's I think it's quite healthy.
Yeah, it's like, of course you want to eat like all all these greens and proteins. I view Lewis in that same.
Way, right, Yeah. With as prolific as Lewis obviously was, both in his more academic work as well as popular works, and you know the fact that you know, we recognize it's it's all good. Like, what what do you think makes Lewis so compelling? Like what makes him so good? As brought up a question as that is, Yeah.
That's a really tough question. I think you need to maybe start with, Well, first off, the broad appeal, right, everyone loves him. I live in Utah, and it's I think it's the one state in the Union that has never been predominantly Christian because of the LDS. Lardy Saint or Mormon Church. But Mormons loved him. They love Lewis. I went to a C. S. Lewis play on stage. I don't know if you've been to one of those before. I haven't, but it was really excellent. It was really fun.
But I all wager that the theater was packed, and I a'll wager like ninety to ninety five percent of the crowd was what was LDS and Mormon. I think part of his appeal is he's able to just convey things in such an interesting way and in a subversive way, kind of like a K. Shesterday, which there's an obvious influence there. But then also you know, maybe pulling in on stories and why is fiction in particular is so compelling the Nardia Chronicles and you know, the Ransom trilogy
is starting to make a comeback. You're probably on the front lines for for why that's happening, doing what I can. Yeah, but he's able to just create this this atmosphere, this a donegality you could say that's is not rival by many other writers that have you know, written recently. You know the courser is Tolking, but you probably put the list on, you know, one hand.
Of those kind of writers, right, Yeah, And you know regarding to that donegality idea of his writing, you just sort of infused with a influence, right, It's like a state of things he talks about that. I think it's in on stories where you know, he says that what really makes for a good story is not just the adrenaline rush of the plot progression, but it's the familiarity that actually calls you, you know, further up and further into a state of being, and that it's that's what
makes for good writing. I think it's true whether you're talking about story or is nonfiction. It's like he doesn't just want to teach you things. Although he does that he wants to call you up to arresting the eternal good. You know, it's all on Plato, right, Professor Kirk says. And so he really lays it out right there kind of what he's doing. And I think that, you know,
whether talking is his non fiction or is fiction. You know, he has distilled so much of pre modern wisdom that then he kind of repackages for the everyday modern, which I think that that's really his strong hook, and to the point where you know, people will read Lewis and say that, you know, he's so prophetic and anticipating kind
of where culture was headed. And I mean he very much was, you know, read something like that the Ransom series, right, read that hideous strength, you know, read even the cultural critiques of Narnia, you know, the Experiment House and all that stuff. That she's definitely was anticipating where things were going. But really I think that what makes him so powerful. It's just the fact that he had a pre modern perspective.
He understood things like like what does it mean to be man, you know, to be a human, which is a question that makes sense in the postmodern world. And so he just he had a different array of wisdom that he was able to bring forward that so many of us are simply bereft of in this world that's you know, constantly given over to postmodern relativism and scientism and all these things that he just does such a good job of dismantling, not even in like an aggressive way,
but in a very windsome charming kind of way. And I think that's one of the things that makes him so compelling. But bringing it more specifically to while we're here, tell us a little bit about your book. I mean, what's the basic premise and what led you in this direction?
Yeah, and actually want to echo some of the stuff that you just said, because that's one of the reasons why why I wrote the book to begin with, because over the past few years, I've just been been really convicted about trying to recapture a biblical ontology of man, or maybe to put it another way, you know, what are we called too? And how does that really work
with our original design? And so, you know, we find ourselves in a world, you know that the postmodern relativistic world that is disenchanted with the good, true, and beautiful, right, and we're openly aligning ourselves with dark enchantment or you know, the dark enchantment of the Witch's Winter. We're openly aligning ourselves with that. And so, you know, turning to you
to the book. One of the reasons why I wrote it is is not to you know, unearth some secret layer to Lose's writing is kind of like a planet Narnia. It's more of like trying to just call attention to some of the obvious pre modern truths that Lewis Hell, that Christians of old Hell regarding masculinity, feminity, what doesn't mean to be an image bear? And it's through the lens of you know, the beavers.
So the beavers are I mean in the big scoop in Narnia, I guess the relatively minded. They play a significant role in this book. Why why do you think they merit this kind of attention? Like what do they bring to the story.
Yeah, there are a few reasons. First off, there they are over they are pretty unique to the narrative. Of course, there are a bunch of talking animals in Narnia, but not every animal can you know, sew and cook and smoke a pipe, you know, So they're unique in that regard, they belong more to like Kenneth Grom's The Wind the
Willows more than they do to Narnia. And as they're more humanistic than other other animals, I would say, like only reap it cheap maybe of a hunter come close to rivaling the beavers and being more human than animal.
And so in that regard that there's really unique, but also what they represent to the overall narrative and we Alreay kind of talked about the pre modern worldview and an opening chapter, I argue that that the beavers kind of their symbols there are representations of the old world of they are an image of a world that has been discarded by by our modern world. And I pull in that hideous strength a passage there to kind of
bolster that argument. And then lastly, they're one of the only married couples in Narnia, and you know, seeing their dynamic give us a picture. And honestly, for for our culture, it's a it's it's a very countercultural picture of how husbands and wives are to interact with each other. But for Lewis it's just a kind of well, yeah, of course, is how you know a man and woman a husband and wife should should interact with each other.
Now, I guess, let me just ask this basic question, what is the Christian home like? What does that even mean? And how is that differentiated from, you know, the broader cultural idea of the home that we're currently dealing with.
Yeah, for sure, A couple a couple of points there, I think maybe they answer the first question. Ultimately, I think a Christian home is or should be a joyful outpost. Just to maybe pull in the title of the book, I think one of the most profound images from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is when the Paventies are sitting down to dinner with the Beavers, and Pauline Baines did a wonderful picture of it, of course, and so they're saying to dinner, and in that picture you see
so many things, right. You see them feasting, They're enjoying each other's company, communing with each other. There's hospitality taking place. Mister Beaver is telling them the properties of spring, telling me about Aslan. Right, So there's there's the prophetic and it's there, and there's there's having a great time, and it's just it's a deeply charming picture. I mean that's we haven't really talked about your your background that much, but I mean, look at that background that is as
so good. And while that's happening outside the Beaver's dam, it's the witch's winter, right, it's and it's an enchanted winter. It's a winter that's waging war on the Nardians. That's ultimately death and despair, thorns and thistles from from Genesis three. It's it's it's no good, and yet here's this joyful outpost where they are doing what they're called to do. And so I think, first and foremost that's what Christian
home should be. It's it's doing those those types of things, doing the Christian life, regardless of what is going on in the culture around them. And to the second question, you know, the home I think has just been severely devalued, deconstructed. You could even say too, like how would we define the household in the modern day. It's it feels more
like a pit stop than anything else where. Mom and dad both working jobs, kids are off at public school, and they're just maybe they stop for a quick meal, right, and then they just head out to do their own thing again. But and the home is just lost its ultimate ultimate value, and it's and it's calling, and I think that's to our detriment as a society.
Yeah. And you know, in the way that you're describing the warmth of the home in contrast to the dead of winter that's surrounding the beavers, it brings to mind some of the Germanic imagery of the you know, the meat hall in the winter, This idea of the you know that the long defeat. He used Tolkien's language, which is not terribly different from what Lewis gives us, you know,
which obviously they're both enamored by the northern spirit. It's this idea that you know, you've got the encroaching monsters around you, you've got the encroaching death of winter, and you know, you very well may expect that in the end the winter's going to win out. But as long as there is warmth and fellowship to be had in the halls, you have an obligation to defend those halls, right, to keep them full of merriment, to fan those flames of the human good for as long as you possibly can.
So I definitely see some of that imagery here as well. And in the fact that it's not just yeah, go ahead, no please, Oh no, I was.
Just gonna jump in and say, you know, to that exact point mister Badger's house and the wind the Willows, which I think is a pretty clear inspiration for the Beaver's home to a degree. For Lewis, he uses that. Graham uses that exact same language of like, it's the place Better's home is a place for you know, I'm paraphrasing a bit, but you know, warriors to sit, sit down and just kind of enjoy each other and revel from and rest from battle. That kind of the same language.
Sorry, yeah, yeah, so I mean there, so there it is. And I honestly I'm not really familiar with wind the Willows, even though I know I should be. But yeah, so that's that's good to know that I'm on the right track with that. Yeah, I think that is important that the difference between you know, a home and merely a residence or like a house, you know, the pit stop. As you said, so, how do you think we how
do we go about establishing a beaver like home? I mean, you know, even you know, Christians argually have this very pragmatic viewpoint at the house. Very you know very often. And so how do we go about intentionally cultivating this kind of home that you're endorsing for us?
Yeah, I mean it starts small. It starts as small as sitting down to dinner something with that nature. It's ultimately, I think you need to maybe understand allegiances. Right, we are servants of the King, uh, and we want to image him as best as we can. And I spend a good deal of time talking about the image of God and how ultimately we are two image Him in all things, but from being hospitable to you know, men acting like men, women acting like women, all of those,
all those different things. So I think it probably probably starts there, like where does our allegiance lie and like, you know, submitting ourselves to that ultimately to to to the Lord obviously.
But yeah, now you know when you bring up things like men acting like men, women actingct women, I mean naturally it's going to bring up you know, knee ourk reactions of sexism. And you know, so you think that mentions boss women around or like. So, so I mean how do you defend it against those obvious assults are going to come from our culture?
Yeah? I knew writing this it was going to be controversial, but uh, you know, this is a side of Lewis that we don't really hear much about. Either. Maybe it's from people they they don't know the side of Lewis, or maybe they know it and they just don't agree with it. And that's probably a bit of both, and just in the culture that we live, as you say, in our highly egalitarian culture. This is offensive to many ears,
but I think it's really important. And so you know, I use essays like Membership and Democratic Education and precises in the Church where Loose is articuling, articulating his thoughts on that exact point, and then I'm kind of I am using those essays to help shed light on what's going on in the narrative, the language and wardrobe secifically with the Beavers, and why their dynamic is the way
that that it is. And so in those essays, first off, Louis does he talks about equality, obviously, and he does mention there is an an equality that's necessary in our culture where if we didn't have this type of equality, then you know, the strong and the rich would prey
on the poor and the weak. And I'm sure we could all you know, cite examples from history of where that's actually happened, and so those kinds of guardrails are important, but it's that kind of equality is only necessary in a fallen world, but it doesn't really get to what we're originally designed for. Coming back to ontology, and so, uh, Lewis talks about in Membership about kind of stripping off that disguise and being able to be who who you
truly are, who you're truly made to be. And yeah, I I totally affirm, you know, traditional male and female roles in the book. I think, uh, that's pretty clear from from from Urmia that he kind of thought the same way. And so like some examples, you know, I but the first one that I cite is, you know, it's no coincidence that it's mister Beaver who's out he was out there in the woods trying to save the pepencies and bring them into his home rather than missus Beaver.
In my sound kind of like, well, why are you raising this question to begin with? It seems kind of out of place, But I don't think it's out of place at all. I think it's a pretty relevant question and something that we need to wrestle with ass as
a culture. Also maybe the charges of sexism or one of the arguments that I make in in the book is, you know, when we try to diminish or when we try to blend the roles together, what what what men can do, what women can do, or like what we're called to When we blend them together, we're diminishing the high calling that the Lord has bestowed on both men
and women. And so it's totally okay that you know, it's uh, it's mister Beaver who who goes and fights in the Battle of Aruna at the end of the narrative, while after the battle, Missus Beaver is one of those who tends and nurtures the wounded after. You know, neither task is inferior to the other. I would say, but you know, we are ultimately an unsettled people, a discontented people, a coutis people, honestly, and you know, we desire the glories of others while turning a blind eye to the
glories placed right in front of us. And one of the things that I see from from the Beavers ultimately is that they are content in who they're called to be, and they execute it and well you know, they play a very key role in the coming of the Golden Age of Narnia.
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of the Fellowship of the Ring. Each week will include assigned reading from The Lord of the Rings, a short side lesson at the beginning of the week that addresses a relevant theme, background story, or secondary text, and then once you've had some time to do the reading, there'll be a longer video that serves as a guide in these forests of wisdom. Also, we will have additional recommended readings, an active discord channel, and weekly live meetings which will
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But you know, even in mere Christianity, right, you spent a while talking about the difference between the masculine and feminine calling, the calling of males and females, and so this is pretty important for Lewis. Obviously we see it in Narnio, Obviously we see it in the Ransom series.
I mean the fact that the whole Ransom series is really this dialectic between Mars and Venus, the masculine and the feminine, and we see the way that is misrelated at the beginning of that hideous strength, but in the way it all kind of comes together as part of the great dance of the Cosmos. And for Lewis, he's very consistent with this that the way that you really become yourself is by playing your role in the great dance.
And what that means is we have to recognize that different things are different things, different things have different parts to play within that dance. And you know that goes all the way up to the outermost edges of the cosmos, you know, moving in imitation or in reflection of the the glory of God, all the way down to the male and female in the home. And that's kind of where you end the book discussing that cosmic harmony idea,
So we'll come back to that. But yeah, the point is I entirely agree this is fundamental to Lewis, and I think it's fundamental to becoming ourselves to figure out kind of who you are in this existence that transcends yourself.
You know.
In addition to there's various essays that you mentioned. Also in Screwtape proposes a toast, you know, he addresses this idea of like democracy run wild a lot where we take the idea or you know, Screwtape and his people are gonna take the idea of democracy and try to stretch it out to apply to everything, to the point where we just flatten everything out until it's nothing. And that's stomonic becase it's a way to become nothing. And well, God's in the business of making something, and so that
idea of distinction really is quite important. I think that you handle that really well. Now you talk about hospitality a good bit, which is obviously mean important part of a home. Now you know, I'm an introvert. Does this mean I need to have people over every day or like, what is hospitality? What's that look like every day?
Man? No, but I do think it's a It's ultimately an important part of the Christian life. You know, we aren't meant to do it by by ourselves obviously, right. We need a community around us, supporting us, encouraging us, keeping us accountable, of course, And it does go back to the image of God. You know, we are as
image bearers recipients of the great hosts hospitality. Right, We're welcomed into this world, and so as image bearers we should regularly get together with developers for that for that reason, to to encourage and equip each other. And coming to the story, maybe to the lninglist and the wardrobe, you could argue, you know that without hospitality, the whole story
doesn't really happen. Right, There are multiple basness is I could cite, but the for the Beavers, you know, if missus Biebers didn't welcome the Pepencys into his home, then who knows what would have happened. They would still have been stranded in the woods. But you could also go go farther back and talk about mister Thomas and him welcoming Lucy into his home, to the Great Professor welcoming
the Pepancy children into his home. I mean, it's all over the place, right, and so it's really important to be hospitable and to take joy in it as well. I think it's easy to think of it as just another task to be wayhed down with, and honestly, you know, I know I've been guilty of that for sure at times. But it's well with the Beaver's. You know, the first
thing that happens when they get into their home. You know, Missus Beaver, she's sewing a line and then she sees them and immediately she gets up and welcomes them into the home and whist the girls off to make dinner while mister Beaver takes the boys out to find the fish or fish. And so it's just kind of it's very clear for them, it's just a muscle. That's just
like it's just natural. It's completely natural to them, and getting to that point for us, I'm definitely not there yet, but I strive to be.
Yeah, And so you know, as you mentioned, that are all these examples of where hospitality plays important role, and of course, on the inversion of that, you also get the faux hospitality of the Witch to Edmund, and so you get a counter example of that as well that you know both you know, Peter and Gang that you know, they're getting drawn in through hospitality ultimately closer to Asland. Right, this is the first time they really hear about Asland
is the home of the Beavers. As they're being drawn into this realm of warmth and love and ultimately life that is befitting of such an introduction as well as you know, Edmund is being invited into the seduction essentially of the Witch and she's being you know, it's kind of like, you know, Lady Wisdom and Lady Folly here, you know, are both offering these invitations to feasts, but with very different ends. And so I think that is an interesting contrast. Now, once they leave the Beavers, they
encounter Father Christmas. How do you defend Santa Claus against the objections of Lewsis just thrown stuff in there at this point.
Oh yeah, Honestly, man, when we send you these questions, and like, this is the hardest question that you've sent me, I don't I don't know what to do with this one. Thankfully, you know, there has been some literary criticism from since The Lion the w Order was published. I'm thinking of one of the better ones for sure on this point is Planet Narnia. And so you know, Michael Warre talks about Father Christmas being a son of Jupiter, and how just that that jovial atmosphere from the Lion Wage and
the Wardrobe. It makes sense in that respect to have Father Christmas in there because he's he's there bestowing gifts and it's it gives a kind of personalized nature as well to the gift giving because you know, ultimately the Linduage and the Wardrobe is about the death of winter and the coming of spring. Right the which is winter uh being put to death, that the spell is broken and in spring comes in the doors that were once veiled have now been unveiled. Right That that eschatological language
right there. And so that in itself is the ultimate gift. But having you know, a your give gifts to children also just kind of plays a cool It gives a cool picture to the whole jovial atmosphere of Jupiter.
Yeah. And first of all, my first reaction when people go at on for this is Lewis is writing a fairy tale. First of all, it's not necessarily like high fantasy, and I think that allows for more freedom of it's fun. But even more profound than that, I think that you're right. I think that there's I mean, what better symbol is there in the modern mythos, at least of joviality than
Father Christmas. And you know, in the story, he shows up and he symbolizes the fact that time is now moving and that we're actually now headed toward Christmas and ultimately towards Spring. And so Father Christmas shows up and you know, principally what he's doing is he's acting as a herald of Aslan. He says that the king is coming, Aslan is coming, and so he is the forerunner to Asland, who is himself the jovial spirit in the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. You know, he is the joy
that comes after a hard won victory through the winter. Yeah, that's what the influence of Joe fundamentally is. And so I think that mythologically it works, and also I just think it works as fairy tales.
Yeah. I love that he's also Lewis put him in his proper place too, as a servant of Asland right right to you know, the the deification of Santa Claus in this day and age. Yeah, I'm a one of those people that, you know, I've heard criticisms of, like, what the heck, why is King Arthur and Merlin in that hideous strength? I'm like, because it's awesome, exactly.
Yeah. The the Ransom series is if you try to just summarize the plot to somebody who is not familiar, it sounds insane, but it's good and so compelling you actually read it. I mean the fact that, okay, you've got this philologist who goes to Venus to punch out the devil and then he has to come back to meet Merlin and you know, become the pen Dragon. It's like, it's crazy, it's so good.
Random. Do you ever think you'll see the Ransom trilogy on the screen?
Oh? I have my hopes. I have my hopes. The tricky one would be, uh, how do you film Perilandra?
Yeah?
I guess really convenient camera angles probably, But I certainly hope so. I certainly hope so. And that is I'm so glad to see a resurgence or a there seems to be a popular emphasis on the Ransom series. People seem to be discovering it for the first time. I mean, you know, I just discovered it the first time like a couple of years ago, and it basically became my
personality for a while. Well, and I just you know, the more that I tweeted about it, more I talked about it, the more people seem to be jumping into it. And there's definitely an excitement there because it's just, I think, such an im important story. I mean, simply a good story on a storytelling angle, but it's such an important story philosophically as a way to re enchant the modern age. Yeah. But I could go off and range them for a while.
Yeah, Yeah, I definitely. You know, that Book and The Abolition of Man, those are the two that you know, everyone's talking about nowadays because there's so many parallels. Yeah, right, but I think that Hideous Strength goes farther, and I think Lewis probably agree, just because it is story and it is able to circumvent those those maybe those washful dragons and other things that kind of bar our way from really appreciating a point or a philosophy.
Yeah, and you know, a couple of years ago or whenever it was. You know, there's that article coming out saying that Lord of the Rings is going to radicalize you to the bar right or something. But Lord of the Rings does nothing to that effect like the Ransom Cherries does. When you know, at the end of Out of the Silent Planet, Lewis basically comes out and says, you know, in his epilogue, by the way, this is real,
go cast down the demonic scientists. He basic just laced it out there, like I'm writing about what's really happening here, and so definitely some some radicalizing potential there. And I don't know, I mean, we need something to wake us up from the just stupor of modern life. You need something kind of radical to help you recognize what he's doing. What's your favorite Lewis book?
Silver Chair?
Okay, that's a good contender. I would say Silver Cherry is my favorite narn you book, favorite book overall. I have to give it until we have faces fair enough.
That's that's that's really good. Yeah, that's truly good. It's been a couple of years though since I've read it. I want to it's probably your fault seeing all your tweets about it. I need to return to it again.
Yeah, that's this kind of a book you can keep returning to and discover new things, because I mean, you know, the last novel he got out, and it's the one that is most profoundly a myth to the point where
you know Ransom series. You can read it and as long as you have some knowledge of what he's doing, it's easy to figure out what he's communicating on the ideological level, whereas un till we have faces, it's kind of thing you just have to enter into and then you walk out of it with something, and there's still these fundamental questions regarding exactly what's happening, especially in you know, towards the end of the book too, And that's something
I really appreciate. So it's a little bit more solid, it's not quite as transparent. Well is there anything else that you wanted to mention or anything else you want to talk about?
Well, we could talk about the the ending, the harmony of the cosmos.
You want to do that, Yeah, yeah, please?
Yeah, So may maybe to wrap the conversation in about at the end of the book, I I talk about music in Narnia and how it plays such a big role in h in this series as a whole. You know, obviously in The Magician's Nephew, which is the sixth book of the Chronicles, right, Andrew, That's right, that's right. Definitely
not the first HarperCollins geez. But yeah, the in The Magician's Nephew, Aslam sings Narnia into creation, as you know, Degree and Uncle Andrew and Polly and Queen Jadis sees it, sees it come into creation, but as as an it is creating Narnia. There's this beautiful passage about how the stars are singing back to Asla, and it's just this beautiful picture of harmony, that creation itself has a voice.
In your world. It's what a star is. It's not what it's what a star is made of. It's not what it is, right.
Absolutely, yeah, I'm actually I just read that to my daughter the other night. We're almost done with The Dawn Treader. But just like Melchor's counter melody in The Silm Alien, right, there is a disharmony that exists in Narnia, and it's really potent, you know. Obviously the Witch's Winter is very very potent. The Telmarines disenchanted Narnia is very very powerful in a sense, and we're all prey to that kind of that kind of thought and that kind of living.
A big example I use in the chapter is when mister Thomas welcomes Lucy into his home and as they're they're eating, he then you know, he uses music to then enchant her into sleep, and it was an act of disharmony with the lion. And you know, thankfully, you know, Thomas recognizes that and repents of that sin. And you know, I think that's a good thing for us to ponder where are we Are we in harmony with the lion
or are we in disharmony? Are we giving too much attention to the dark enchantment of winter and not enough attention to the joyous spring that's coming? Right? And so ultimately, you know, for my book, it's a it's a prayer for for people to start thinking about those little things that they can do to fortify their home for the growth of that kingdom and to you know, harmonize with with the lion.
Yeah, it's good and I think it's a powerful connection between you know, the very fibers of the cosmos, right that the song that brings the cosmos into existence, as well as the harmony we have that we bring about in our own home and even just with ourselves connected to the broader scene. I guess I'd be careful and
talk about harmony with ourselves. That sounds kind of postmodern, but you know, the inner harmony as a microcosm of the world that actually is above and beyond ourselves, and that it's when we recognize that hierarchy that's intrinsic in existence itself, that we actually find the pathway to meaning. And you know, if we're going to take the hyperd democratic route and destroy all hierarchy as such, we're actually destroying our very pathway to happiness, to joy, to meaning.
We're forsaking, you know, the calling of you know, Tor and Perilandra to content ourselves in our littleness and to just receive and to be glad. But when we're constantly trying to create rather than simply receive, well we're kind of lost in the Nietzschean abyss of no clear direction to And so yeah, I'm really just echoing what you said that there's just so much freedom in finding your place rather than trying to create it out of nothing, and I think that's what it means to bear the
image of God. We're called to reflect, not fundamentally to create. So good anything else that you want to decide, I.
Don't think so. I don't think so.
All right, well good, and so I definitely appreciate you coming back. Everyone go out and buy his book A Joyful Outpost, and we'll have to do this again some time and maybe talks about the Lewis or something else. So thanks again for popping in.
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Absolutely I hope that you enjoyed that conversation, and again, remember to pick up A Joyful Outpost. And if you're listening to this through the podcast, then you can find a link in the show notes and of course that is my book recommendation for you this time. Also, if you want for me to be able to keep producing content like this and to keep having conversations like this on a regular basis, ideally I would love to get to a place where I can do a fresh, full
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