INTRO:
Hello and welcome to Myth Monsters, my name is Erin and I’ll be your host for these little snack bite size podcasts on folklore and mythical monsters from around the world.
These podcasts focus on the actual cryptids, folklore and mythic monsters from global mythology, rather than focusing on full stories of heroes and their big adventures.
I’ll also be dropping in some references that they have to recent culture and where you can see these represented in modern day content so you can learn more, and get as obsessed as I am about these absolute legends of the mythological world.
Thankfully, I am feeling much better this week - so thank you all for bearing with me with the late publishing of last week’s episode. This week though, we’re focusing on a really fun monster - and we’re back to our legendary birds.
DESCRIPTION:
Yes, this week we’re looking at the incredible Thunderbird from Native American mythology - and what a bird it is! I’m so excited to cover this one.
The Thunderbird is described as an absolutely massive bird, so much so that they could pick up a whale in its talons - that’s how big we’re talking. They are usually considered an eagle-like bird, with those striking and sharp features of a bird of prey. They are also said to have beautiful bright and colourful feathers, however, they are mostly considered to be either various shades of blue or a very dark navy, so that they melt into the dark skylines of the night. They are apparently beautiful to behold, however, the reason they have their name is for when they flap their wings, it causes a thunder crash. The bird was also known for carrying two golden snakes, which are individual lightning rods, to start an almighty storm - although some believe that the lightning is caused by the Thunderbird itself blinking. It is said that if a Thunderbird is seen, a great storm is due to start, or potentially, a natural disaster.
They’re said to eat whales as I mentioned earlier, and their favourites are actually orcas or killer whales. They’re actually mentioned in stories eating whales too to some frequency, so we are very sure of this fact. But the bird is so big, it does certainly make sense that it eats this large prey. Gross though, they do apparently have teeth within their beaks, which they use to tear apart their prey, as well as massive talons to eviscerate anything in their way.
Take comfort though, that within Native mythologies, the Thunderbird was actually a sign of protection, but also an enforcer of the morals of tribal life. If you were said to be morally repugnant, the Thunderbird might come for you. It’s said that you should generally avoid the bird, as it is quick to anger.
When it comes to powers, of course we have the lightning and thunder generation, which is cool in itself. However, it is also revered as a physical embodiment of the elements - and would reward or punish people based on how they treated each other and the land that they inhabited. It was said that the bird could change form based on what the tribe or land needed, and could enact harsh punishments. For example, it is said that sometimes the Thunderbird could carry vast lakes on its back to help with drought, but could also set in harsh winds, floods and fires when not pleased.
There are also tales of the bird shapeshifting, either into a smaller bird in order to go around unnoticed, or into a human. When turned into a human, it would take off its huge pelt of feathers and use this as a blanket to keep themselves warm, and tip their beak up over their heads - and they could remain human for a long time. Their objectives in this form are mostly unknown, but it is thought that they are observing human morality in the most obvious form to them. They could always change back by pulling their beaks back down and putting their feathers back on.
However, all of this depends on your tribe - and which parts of these stories the tribes themselves believe in.
The Thunderbird of the Menominee Peoples believed that the Thunderbirds live on an enormous mountain that floats in the sky. They control the elements, and generally enjoy watching human life. They love humans fighting and the accomplishment of impressive feats. These Thunderbirds are known to be enemies of the Misikinubik, otherwise known as The Great Horned Snake and are the reason mankind has not been destroyed. The Great Horned Snake is definitely a monster for another episode by the way.
The Ojibwe legends of the Thunderbird say that it was created by one of their cultural heroes, Nanabozho, to protect people from evil underwater spirits. They would migrate with other birds, and live in the four directions. The Thunderbird of the Winnebago was said to give people powerful abilities. Their traditions dictate that anyone who is granted a vision of the Thunderbird during a fast will become a mighty war chief.
In the Sioux legends, they claim that the Thunderbird protected humans from Unktehila during the old times. The Unktehila were reptilian monsters and without the help of the Thunderbird, man may not have ever existed at all. In the Arapaho myths, the Thunderbird is a representation of Summer, in contrast to the White Owl who represented Winter.
The Algonquian Peoples believed that Thunderbirds were ancestors of the human race. Thunderbirds within their mythos are very much linked to the creation of the world, and they were considered rulers of the upper world. Whilst the Great Horned Serpent ruled over the underworld, Thunderbirds protected humans from it. Lastly, the Shawnee people also believed the Thunderbird could change its appearance in order to interact with people. They also believed that Thunderbirds appeared as boys who spoke backwards.
That’s just some of the tribal myths surrounding this legendary bird, but you get the jist - I’d be here forever if I went through all of the Native tribes - there are 574 recognised ones, so forgive me for not going into all of them.
ORIGIN:
Onto etymology, now the English word Thunderbird is very much a literal translation of the powers it is associated with - with that creation of thunder when its wings flap. But the Native cultures that this bird comes from have different names for it, such as the Sioux tribe call it Wakinyan, Anishinaabe call it Animikii, Boh’ooo in Arapaho, Bha’a in Gros Ventre, Cigwe in Potawatomi and Enaemaehkiw in Menominee for example. They are mentioned in other tribes, but sometimes more as a weather or thunder spirit, rather than taking the physical form of a bird.
In terms of their origin and history though, it’s an interesting one because no one is actually sure of when this started appearing in folklore. There is no single written history or date of sightings, but stories - which is what I’m going to tell you about because that’s the fun bit. But yeah, I’ve got nothing on dates or origins this week I’m afraid - if you’ve listened to any of my other Native American monster episodes before, you’ll know that also sometimes information is not shared with outsiders - so it might be a case of this, but it might also just not have any specifics.
But let’s tell some stories about this great beast - this one is called Thunderbird Fights the Mimlos-Whale.
It is said that a long time ago, there was a great flood which covered most of the Earth. During this time the Thunderbird and the Mimlos-Whale were in a massive fight, every time the fight would end with the Thunderbird dragging the Whale up to its mountain nest, but the Whale would escape back to water again. Eventually, after years of fighting, the Thunderbird gave up, and let the Whale escape to the deepest depths of the ocean - and this is why Orcas are still found in the deep sea to this day. You can actually see the place where they are believed to have fought in the Olympic Peninsula, west of Seattle in the US, where no trees grow.
Another is that of the Thunderbird turning people to stone, which is a fun one. It’s said that a hunter found the prey of a Thunderbird whilst hunting, but the whale was so big that the Thunderbird was having a nap nearby. The hunter returned to his tribe and told them of the bounty, and they stole the meat. The Thunderbird awoke and caused a great storm, the hail was so big that it killed all the people in the prairie, and after the storm had passed, their bodies and the stolen meat turned to stone. I did warn you that it would go full on if you angered it - this is just one of those stories.
The last one I’ll tell is probably the coolest, but also the most gory from the Passamaquoddy people - it’s said that the Thunderbird was discovered when two warriors wanted to find the origin of thunder. They ventured to a mountain that opened and slammed shut quickly as you went by - the first warrior survived, the second was crushed. On the other side, the warrior found a group of Natives - and some of the elders decided to help the young man discover the origin of thunder. They put him inside a mortar and pounded all of his bones til they broke, and then they built him a new body with wings of the Thunderbird, alongside giving him some bows and arrows. It’s said that this specific Thunderbird looks over the Passamaquoddy tribe as a mighty protector to this day.
Now we know that the idea of the Thunderbird went way back, and some researchers believe that the Thunderbird myth was a way for Native Americans way back when to explain the elements. Not only is it responsible for the weather, sometimes the line between life and death, but also human morality - it can make sense that it almost became a deity as such. It’s also sometimes thought by researchers that the Thunderbird could be a constellation instead too, which certainly gives this bird a legendary edge.
Some researchers also believe that the thunderbird legend could be based on sightings of real birds, even potentially pterodactyl dinosaur species. However, this completely takes it out of the running for an existing myth monster. It also contradicts the idea that it has these bright feathers, as we know that pterodactyls had no feathers and were incredibly bland to look at. But they were huge, and were known to have teeth on the inside of their beaks too - so it certainly makes sense that these might have been the earliest misidentification with Thunderbirds with the first people.
It might also be a way to explain crazy weather, especially to early humans. But it might even be as basic as massive plants, which we know dominated the early landscapes, and again, just a case of misidentification.
CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE:
Now onto modern media, we only have a few this week - but we have enough to cover this I think.
For art, I would recommend having a look at independent stuff this week - and actually at some native prints, carvings and art, as well as symbolism within flags and on totem poles within Native spaces - however, do always ask consent to enter sacred spaces.
In movies, we only have the one and that’s Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - which is a Harry Potter spin off.
For TV, we have; One Piece, Digimon, Raideen, Hilde, Power Rangers: Mystic Force, Gargoyles & Aladdin: The Series.
In video games, we have ones such as; Devil May Cry 1 and 5, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Siege, Don’t Starve, Fantasy Life, Final Fantasy 4, 7 & 8, Etrian Odyssey, Extrapower: Star Resistance, Genshin Impact, Heroes of Might and Magic, Horizon Zero Dawn, Warcraft 3, Zelda 3: The Adventure of Link, Thunderbird Strike, Pokemon, Mega Man 5, World of Warcraft, Shadow Hearts: From the New World, Shin Megami Tensei & Terraria: Thorium.
My book recommendation this week is Native American Creatures by Trident Books for a nice short summary of Native monsters - however, it is quite a small book, so for Native mythology I would recommend Native American Myths: Collected 1636 - 1919 by Rosalind Kerven for a much more in depth study on the myths and legends from this culture.
DO I THINK THEY EXISTED?
Now it’s time for, do I think they existed? 15;12
I really love this monster, I think it’s got such a cool idea behind it - and certainly some great stories to go alongside that. However, I’m going to say no. I’m going to stick with the science on this one and say that we know that the Thunderbird is ginormous - and it would be so unlikely that we wouldn’t have spotted one by now. It’s hard to even prove that a Phoenix exists, let alone a gigantic thunder eagle flying through the skies getting annoyed at people.
It could certainly fall into cryptid territory rather than mythical beast here - as there are enough stories regarding this one to get away with. However, it might just be a case of extinction - we know that big birds did exist, such as the giant cranes of Africa, and dinosaurs such as pterodactyls, but we know that most of these animals went extinct due to their appetites just being too big, just like the Megalodon - which was the biggest predator in the seas - it just couldn’t keep up with its own hunger, and I think this could potentially be the same with the Thunderbird, especially if it was eating whales in the same oceans too.
I certainly don’t want to reduce this amazing creature down to a video game, but the Thunderbird was actually the inspiration for the Pokemon Zapdos from the original 150 - literally one of the three legendary birds. I’ve covered two of these now, with the Phoenix being the inspiration for Moltres - just got to cover the Simurgh for Articuno now.
But what do you think? Did the Thunderbird roam the skies? Let me know on Twitter!
OUTRO:
What an awesome monster to cover this week, I really love covering legendary birds - maybe it’s the original Pokemon hunting from the noughties that has inspired the love of this type of monster.
Next week, we’re heading over to Persia for the first time in ages and looking at the wonderful and mysterious rhino-like creatures, the Karkadann. Get ready to hunt some horns next Thursday for this mythical beast!
For now, thank you so much for listening, it’s been an absolute pleasure. If you enjoyed this podcast, please give it a rating on the service you’re listening on - I’ve got the twitter for any questions, or suggestions on what monsters to cover next and I’d love to hear from you. The social media handles for Tiktok, Youtube and Instagram are mythmonsterspodcast, and twitter is mythmonsterspod. But all of our content can be found at mythmonsters.co.uk - you can also find us on Goodpods and Patreon if you want to help me fund the podcast too.
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But for now, stay spooky and I’ll see you later babes.