MTGM EXTRA! "Rejection..." - With Michelle de Swarte

This is a Global Player original podcast.

Welcome to the bonus episode of My Therapist Goes to Meet with me, Joanne McNally. And she's back. Yeah, baby. Michada Swartz, she's here again. Hello. Hello. Salutations. I... Just to be clear, we're double recording this because Michelle's a busy bitch. So we haven't seen any more of Vogue's jungle story. No, but my God, we've got a lot to go on. Do you know what I mean? We've got a lot to go on. She's arrived.

She's had shit chucked at her. It has been horrific to watch. But she's keeping a smile on her face. She is. I was going to go on the Lorraine. I was going to go on Lorraine to help. I don't know, like rally, but I couldn't do it in the end. Mate, are you going to go and meet her from the jungle? I'd love to. You've got to. I can't. Why not? Because I'm on tour.

Oh, fuck. The bridge thing is a real issue because the person who meets you off the bridge has to be free to go out to Australia for two weeks. So, like, most people... can't do that. So that's where you see a lot of these celebrities being met by their managers and a lot, you know what I mean? So you know what, right? This is something they also don't tell you. When you go out there, because you know I did the panel years ago because Jack Osborne had swan flu, right? So...

What they don't tell you is if you're on the panel or doing anything like that, that isn't in the jungle, they keep you on British time. They keep you on British time. Girl, you are waking up at like the morning and you're having a steak. And mash. You're having lasagna for breakfast. Like, they keep you on British time. It's mental. I remember I was down to the last couple of people to get the voiceover for Love Island Australia. Random. Yeah. And then...

I didn't get it in the end. And Stephen Mullen, who did get it, then COVID happened. So, because usually you fly out to Australia. They make you fly out to do it. Yeah. For voiceover. Yeah. Before COVID anyway, yeah, you had to fly out. No one tell him. Yeah, yeah, I've got to be there in person. Yeah. I'll bring my mic with me. But I think loads of people, they would like, I was like, oh yeah, that'd be like, I was kind of wanted to go out. But anyway, COVID happened and they...

He was in a hotel room, but he was on Australian time. He was on his own, in a hotel room. And I was like, I'm actually so glad I didn't get that job. It drives you mental. Yeah. Yeah. Sheer crack. Yeah. I went for them two days. Like, I did a gig. One gig over my birthday last month. And I was like, I came back and I was spun.

out the fuck. Massively. Yeah. But voiceover's great, man. I know. I love it. I'm the voice of Deliveroo. It's my favourite job. Yeah, it's easy because you're just in and out. You can look like a bag of shit if you want. No one cares. They prefer. They prefer. Yeah.

But it does get monotonous. Do you ever do so much voiceover work? I remember when I did the voiceover when I was doing the VO for the Furby podcast. And I was like, I actually don't even know how I sound or speak anymore. When you speak so much, you kind of lose how your words are coming out. I'm always shocked when I hear the adverts come on. Like, I'm like, wow.

That is not how I think I sound. Do you know what I mean? But I've got to say as well, being hungover and hearing your own voice say that you should get a burger and chips is... Enticing. Ah, solid. It feels like an intervention from God. You're just like, well, I guess I should then.

Wait, you wanted to chat about Azealia Banks. Why? You sent me just a WhatsApp going, Azealia Banks. And I was like, what? Well, so when I was doing the, I was doing a lot of press at the moment because I'm... A fucking arena. Put that up, you fucking fanny-o. Shut the fuck up. Don't ever question me.

An arena. I know, but you know yourself. No, I don't know myself, Bez. I'm trying to shift the bloody 300 seater in Swindon. You're like, you know yourself. You've a load of London shows gone. Yeah, you do now. Also, Michelle was on RuPaul's Drag Race.

So anyway, I was doing this and, you know, the radio station comes down and you're like talking and talking. And I came out and I was like, I'm so paranoid that I said something, anything about, because a lot, you're like, did I? Because I was saying, oh, you know, I'm ready in time and I've, you know, I...

it would be harder if you kind of blew up online and then you're doing big rooms and you're not necessarily ready but you've put the work in you know your craft you know what you're doing anyway then after you're like oh my god fuck have I pissed off like

anyone I didn't mean it and blah blah blah anyway the head spinning yeah ruminating blah blah blah then I was thinking about Azeel this is what I texted I was thinking about Azeelia Banks and the amount like I'm very conflict averse she is conflict gagging for it. There is no stopping her. She'll do mental tweets. She did a tweet about Ireland and called us all

ugly leprechauns, like the whole country. Do you remember that? No. And then she had that weird interaction with Conor McGregor where she asked him to back her up and then it turns out they were sexing each other anyway. Do you remember when she said that Russell Crowe flobbed on her in a hotel room?

What? No. He spat on her in a hotel room. What? And I think RZA from the Wu-Tang Clan took her. And he was like, after they were like, is this true? And he was like, no, it's not. I took her with me. It ended up being crazy. This is what I love about Azealia Banks. yeah she said some absolutely horrendous stuff to everybody yeah I'm actually getting the article up and and and she is forgiven right she listen is she that one well

Listen, she said the F word about gay men and she then still headlines. I think it was like some sort of gay pride in Miami or whatever. Basically... Azealia Banks, kind of take her as a pinch of salt. She's very inflammatory, I guess. And I also feel with Azealia Banks, she's massively talented. She is. And I feel like Azealia Banks ran so... Dolce could walk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they're very similar, but you know what I mean? Like, as in like the across genres of music, can both sing. Yeah. Also killer lyricists. Yeah. But Azealia Banks is just like, everything's going well. And then she's like, I'm going to blow up. I'm going to napalm my life right now. Is she self-sabotaging? Is that what she's up to? She is. She's unfiltered. She's got the Kanye Twitter fingers at the ready. Yeah, she does. Yeah.

Banks' penchant for conflict nearly eclipses her bars in the years since her first mixtape dropped in 2012. If one thinks she's actually becoming known for her endless list of feuds on and off social media. In March 2024, Banks hopped on Instagram to critique the cover and title of Beyonce's album, Cowboy Carter.

Despite Beyonce herself explaining the meaning behind the project and why she decided to make an entire album in a genre she's only previously dabbled in, Banks weighed in with a litany of assumptions and criticisms ranging from a lack of creativity.

to outright ignorance. Listen, Azealia Banks here, Azealia Banks talks the way you chat with your friend after two bottles of wine. Big time, privately. She wakes up in the morning, she brushes her teeth and she's like, I'm going to get on a public forum and let people know how I really feel. You're like,

that could stick that's for the notes yeah but now yeah now it's like it's part of her brand do you know what I mean I know it kind of is yeah she's gonna fuck shit up yeah you're right she's a disruptor as they say yeah exactly

I saw Douchy had a glass to be in. It was next level. Phenomenal. Yeah. Phenomenal. She made everyone else look like they were ringing it in, to be honest. This is what I say about press runs, right? Because I've done a few. Yeah. And... I reckon, like, when you're chatting to the press, take your time. Yeah. Journalists have got a really good way of staying quiet. And us as public speakers want to feel that...

we're like, oh, there's an awkward silence. I must fill it with talking gibberish. And then before you know it, you're like, oh, I've got a stinky fanny and I've got a spoiler on the bottom of my back. And you're like, what the fuck am I saying? Do you know what I mean? It's like a therapy session. That's why therapists stay quiet to make you... admit that you've got all this shit that you don't have exactly so I always think let the awkward silence sit and

If you're ever... Because I had to do some press training, which HBO paid for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Media training. Go on. Yeah, because you're going on a big press run. So they're like, make sure you know how to handle this situation. And I had to... sit with someone from like he trains you in press and he was like if you're asked a question that you're not sure if you want to answer have a sip of water

Just like, let the silence sit there. And that's why I say it, us as public speakers, we're like, silence, no. I will, I will kryptonite. This is kryptonite to me. I'm going to keep on talking. It's like, you don't need to. You can let silence sit there. Yeah. Listen, Joanne's doing Arena. Good for her. Now, I've got some tickets to bloody shifts, OK? I'm going all around the UK, Swindon, Exeter, Farnham, wherever the fuck that is. Listen, right, this is...

I'm telling you, look, Joanne's doing arenas. I just need 300 of you to turn up to exit. That's it. A humble, a humble 300. As you will. As you will. And I need some, I'm actually about 30,000 to come. If you could rally your mates there. Your family tree. Yeah, things have really escalated over this side. And I'm in a desperate bit now to fucking feel this thing. Because people are like, oh, congratulations to you in the arena. I was like, no, no.

the congratulations comes you know what it's like I'm like I've just rented it at this point but at the moment it is completely empty how it feels yeah putting on a show whatever the size it feels like you know when you have a birthday party and like you're the

Like, you're the first mate to turn up to the party. And you're like, you can see your friend stressing a bit, but you've turned up on time. You know no one else is going to turn up on time. And so you start dancing really big on the dance floor. And you're like, oh, all this space. I love it. I'm having the best time. ever like that is the vibe of putting on your own show you're just like it feels like a birthday party you're like is are people gonna come exactly yeah

Michelle, would you like to do an email? Yeah. Yeah. Can't wait. Okay, so, hello, Joanne and Vogue. In brackets, Michelle. I love listening to you both because you give sound advice. I'm 39 and it feels like my life has hit reverse. Not just a gentle rollback, more like full on Formula One.

backwards. I'm job hunting day in and day out and I'm not getting anywhere. I'm mentally done in from applying for jobs, doing interviews and getting rejection after rejection. Oh, it's professional rejection. If there was an Oscars for most rejected woman, I'd win it. I know all the sayings, what's for you won't pass you by, trust the timing, blah, blah, blah. But honestly, some days I want to throw my laptop on the floor and say, fuck this for the crack.

Have either of you ever gone through a phase where nothing goes right? How did you keep going? What did you tell yourselves when everything felt pointless? At this stage, I'm tired of my own pep talks. I nearly could nearly give myself the ick. keep up the good work fucking hell right have I got some bloody advice for you because 39 is an absolute Babylon section of life like it is so just to make you feel better listener writer-inner, reader. Anon. Anon. Is me, so I moved back to London at 39.

I had two suitcases and had zero career. I think something happens. And I ended up writing a show about it. It's spent, right? But my advice to you would be... don't stress too much. You're going to have to take some gambles on yourself. You're probably trying to play a bit too safe because you want to stay on the side of caution. But if you've already fucked your life beyond recognition, who gives a shit at this point? It's going to...

need a big change you're gonna have to dash some chips on the table and make some bets on yourself and also what I would say and now listen I fucking hate to say this but when everything is in disarray stop drinking for a little while You can drink again. All right, I'm back on the sauce.

But have a little time off until you get your shit in order. Like, you're going to just have to make some big changes and big sacrifices and just be like, fuck it. But me at 39, I was staying at my sister's house in my niece's old single bed that still had graffiti. written on the wall from when my niece was a teenager. My brother, I turned 40 in that bed and I remember being like...

No fucking way. I was so raging about my situation. It was highly motivating. Do you know what I was rejected at the most by was it wasn't professional. When I first got to London, I bumped into a lot of people in audition. and whatever it is and they knew I was new to London and I had no mates I hadn't had the great joy of you yet and me and Vogue were friendly me and Vogue obviously were mates but she was kind of all I had and people would say to me

Oh, do you want to meet? I'll meet you for coffee. Let me know if you want to meet for coffee. And then when I actually asked them to do it, not a single one of them came back. Do you know the only one who came back was Roisin Conaty?

Yeah, she's solid. She's so sad. She's solid, isn't she? She's so sad. So I know when it's like, it's shit and you question yourself, you're like, oh, blah, blah, blah. But you just have to stick with it because you've got to roll with the punches. Yeah, and I really think we live in a world now where you're just disillusioned because you see the end result of everything.

just like oh look what they're doing look what they're doing yeah get off social media for a little bit go bloody gym start a routine this is baby steps it's fucking boring it's monotonous but like if you start

Tapping in too much to what other people are doing, you're going to free fall and start losing your shit. So it's like, yeah, this is rubbish. Anytime you open up your phone, everyone's killing the game and they're fucking on jet skis. You know what I mean? In bloody Dubai with a falcon on their arm.

like just don't like just don't don't get too caught up in it you've got to start like a routine and be consistent with it so whether that's going gym and looking after yourself taking all the vitamins and laying off the sauce that's what I would say and just

tell yourself that like this is what you're fucking doing because that's the reality but when I tell you there's so many women I know that like just before 40 everything goes to fucking shit and you have a whole identity crisis because you're like I'm a bougie bitch why am I living so

poor this does not align with who I see myself as and it's just a big identity shift and it's fucking terrible but like babes do you know what I mean you gotta trust the process of life it's fucking long but like all we see is the end results all we see is the end results and it's Like, it takes baby steps to make shit happen. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah. That and, like, that's what I'd say. Perfect. Yeah. She smashed it.

No, but it's true though, isn't it? Oh, it's totally true. The 39 will fuck with your brain. It is, because you do feel... I was actually... Because you think you're so old. It's like I was chatting to one of my support ladies.

because they're all in their 20s. And she was like, I'm 27 and I'm really going for it. And I was like, babes, 27 is a really hard year because you haven't hit 30 yet. You feel older at 27 than you do at 31. And it's like one of them big changes where like when you hit your 30s, you're like,

oh, this is the teenage years of adulthood. And I think when you hit your 40s, when it finally comes, you're like, oh, okay, relief. I'm a proper adult now. There's no one to blame. There's no one to blame. This happened to my childhood and my mum was... No one gives a shit. Yeah. No one fucking cares anymore. And that's...

piece in that. 100%. I had my turning... I had my little midlife crisis and I wouldn't even call it a crisis when I turned 30 when I turned 40 I was like I'm good to go because I kind of had my little mental breakdown in my early 30s got my shit together and I'm in a good place. So turning 40 to me was fine, but I know for a lot of people turning 40, it's a big time for a reflection. Where am I? Where am I going? What have I done? But like,

40's the new 20. Yeah, but, mate, being broke at 40 is different. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? That's true. Especially if you're straight. Oh, oh, gross. Terrible.

Why straight? Well, because I think if you're straight and you're single, if you're on any apps, the second that 40 hits your dating profile and that age comes up, you're in a different bracket. People think you're on... jizzy supermarket sweep and you're trying to get pregnant or like you want something from them and like yeah you do they're sold but that's beside the point you know what i'm saying it's beside the point also um

Were you talking about relationships? Yeah, I just mean like 40 just does something. Like if you're single, if you're straight, it's a little bit harder because you're going through like the norms of society as well. You know what I mean? Your reflection is that.

So you're like, I'm going to deal with myself. I ain't got any kids. I ain't married. We about know that it's like, that's kind of what Pena Files is about, to be honest. It's like the reality check of actually what that's packaged as is no longer. When you get to your 40s, you look back at the package that was sold to you in your 20s for what you're supposed to be doing and you realise it's a load of bollocks. Yeah. Look at us, living our best lives. Yeah. Kind of.

Yeah. I never had that package. So I was just like, whatever. No one was like, no one expected me to do that. I wasn't like being forced. I wasn't like being forced down the aisle. I wasn't being trafficked or anything. But it was like, that was just what...

the women around me they were all can you imagine if you wish traffic then you're still single what a burn what a fucking burn they're like they sent her back yeah yeah yeah they're just like nah has this got a 30 day warranty too much stress we've hung out and we're good

Michelle, thank you so much for coming in. Your gas, as always. It has been an absolute pleasure. I don't sound as excited as I am. Which is not that. No, no, genuinely. Do you know what as well? When was the last time me and you hung out? I know, I can't remember. Do you know what I mean? Drinking coffee. Oh, well, it was at the Apollo. Oh, no, wait. Didn't we go for a walk since then? Oh, my God. Fucking yes. We went for a walk. Sorry. All right.

Because my memory is that the memory of you leaving the house when you said, when did we last? That was the memory that popped into my head. Can we speak about the fact that me and you, we and Joanne have lived near each other for years now and I'm always like, let's go to...

the common joe and you want to come for a picnic on the common let's go to the common and then literally a couple of weeks ago you was like right i'm gonna meet you sunday morning we're going for a walk and it was like knocking for your mate to come out and play i was like buzz the buzzer you came skipping down the stairs

We did a couple of laps. It was a lovely afternoon. Because I always want to bring Michelle to the pub. That's the problem. And she's like, Joanne, we have to just do sober things sometimes together, like walks and stuff. And I'm like, no. I just want to go on the piss with you all the time. Do you remember when we played tennis? We played tennis. We played tennis. I was really, yeah, because I was off the booze at the time and I was like, okay, come on, let's get a hobby.

Tennis balls in the hottest day of the year. Like lava. I think we lasted, 20 minutes in, he was like, I'm fucking over this. Yeah. We hit about three balls consecutively. You made a mistake. Yeah, yeah. And I said, we're doing 45 minutes. Then we did it and he was like, oh. And I was like, Yeah, let's go pub.

With the two rockets, never been touched. The rockets have never been touched since. The way we were dressed up for tennis, like it was a fashion show, like Barbie tennis day. We were like, yeah, visors. Joanne came with no water. No water. No water. We were so out of our comfort zone. We were just like, this is fucking ludicrous. But look, we made an effort. Let's go to the book.

athletic as kicking a tin can down the street. That was us. Two of us just sweating. Yeah, not as much precision. I literally, after 15 minutes, was like, I'm over this. This is a terrible mistake. But the way we skipped into the pub, like, we are sporty girls. Oh, these rackets. Oh, God. Slung them down on the table. Hey, Michelle, you got the racket, so I'll go and get the wine. Okay, yeah. Tennis was great.

Mind a racket, Michelle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll wear one into the pubs. They think I've just done something really athletic on the way in. I know, but look, we're trying. We're trying. We're trying our best. We're trying our best. It's been a pleasure. We just love a wine. Yeah. I love good wines and shots. It's one of my favourite things to do. It is. I love that. Anyway, thanks so much for doing it, Michelle. You're welcome. This has been a Global Player original production.