Appoche production.
Thought'll be right. That's the sound of our doorbell at our studios in Brisbane, Australia. It's where we got to sit down and meet Ryan Whitwell Dwyer for the first time. It's a Saturday morning and Ryan has flown back to Brisbane to spend the weekend with me recording his story. It wasn't the first time we'd met. We'd had a few calls and I'd also travel with Sydney to meet up.
When you're sitting down with someone about to tell you the sort of story Ryan's got, there's a level of trust and comfort that you need to build first telling you who you are.
So I'm right, and I live in Sydney and director of events for a luxury hotel in Sydney, which is very cool, a lot of fun. I'm thirty two, thirty two in August, I should say should age myself. Mum lives on the Gold Coast. Dad also lives on the Gast no longer together. I'm single and loving it. And obviously we know where my sister is.
If the title of the podcast hasn't already given it away, Ryan's sister, Britney Dwyer, is a murderer. She's currently in jail, and so was the person that helped her with the killing. Britney rang the doorbell of her grandfather's house in Adelaide back in May of twenty sixteen, and he led her in. She stayed for breakfast, looked at family photos, and then on her way out to the front door, she took a knife that she had had hidden in her sleeve and stabbed her own grandfather to death.
It was my dad, my daughter killed you today. The Whitwell family, including the killer's mother Tanya, banded together to see Britney Dwyer jailed for life.
Very very difficult and really smeshed yourself.
The murder was brutal, callous, cold blooded and dispassionately planned. Could she just be pure, cold, hard evil?
Hi? My name is Ryan and my sister murdered my grandfather. What are the signs that I missed? Family life was good? You know growing up, my dad worked incredibly hard. My mum was a stayed home mum looked after us. You know, Breakfast was ready at seven am every single day, you know, it was it was a normal family unit. You know. My parents were pretty strict, tried to always keep us on the straight and narrow when you right from wrong.
And it was really sort of instilled in us that we need to be something in this world in order to you know, give back to the community as well as to be successful. And I think because we didn't have a lot of money growing up, I think it was really important that was instilled in us from a very early age.
Who are we talking about when we say us, my sister and I that was the family unit. Mum and dad.
Yeah, Mum and dad and Brittany and I. Yeah.
Where'd you grow up?
We grew up in bin Lee in which is sort of in between the Gold Coast and Brisbane. Not the best part of Queensland, that's for sure. Growing up we were actually renting a house in Mountwarren Park, little three bedroom place, one bathroom, was very small, big backyard though. We went to public school, so I went to Mount Warren Park State School and then moved through to a Window Primary. My sister was the same, She went to
Windrew Primary the whole way through. There's about a five years difference between her and I. So when I was sort of leaving primary school, she was still very early days in primary school and when I was leaving high school. She had only just entered into high school.
We like big brother for her big brother.
Yeah, okay, I wouldn't say we were overly close when we were younger. I think again that five year age gap. We were always in two different parts of our life, but you know, still very much looked out for each other, still hung out a lot, you know, did all the siblingly things. Obviously, the little sister is always annoying, so push her away when you can. But certainly when we when I got into high school, and I think, you know, I was starting to learn to drive, and I think
that opened our world up a little bit more. I was the cool older brother with the car. So yeah, but she went to a private school. The best times that I can remember was, you know, from from my childhood as well. You know, I remember we had a My parents had a great close knit group of friends too, and I would often say that, you know, my mum's best friend is like my second mother. It was very
just like a normal living experience. The only I guess bad thing was that my grandfather lived in South Australia and so that was quite a quite a distance flight to wen't cheap back then. Yeah, and a little irregular. And yes, so we didn't really get to travel all that much.
Ryan and Britney's grandfather was called Robert Whitwell. He seemed like a nice old man from the photos that I've seen, gray hair, slight build, and a big smile. Reminds me a little bit of my own pop. I can tell you, if you're leading to conclusions about why Britney stabbed her grandfather to death, maybe he was holding a secret of some sort. That's an assumption that's completely incorrect.
It's insidious that a man who's been murdered should have his reputation besmirched in that manner. He said, mister Whitwell wasn't here to defend himself, and that the claims were simply an invention.
The reason for Britney stabbing her granddad were much simpler. Robert had always lived in Adelaide. It was Ryan's mum, who is Robert's daughter, who wanted to taste of the big smoke, so she left her home of Adelaide and moved up to the Gold Coast. But Ryan and Britney's granddad always stayed close to the grandkids.
I do remember one particular holiday though, that my mom and my dad actually hired a car and we drove to South Australia from Queensland, which is a long drive.
It's like a twenty three twenty four hour drive Australia and.
If you're doing it Australia, and I think they did, I think they just swapped drivers. Were there within like a day, a full twenty four hour period. But as I got older, I loved flying down there. I would actually save up money and fly down in school holidays myself, and it's been all school holidays there.
And so when your granddad passed, his fourth wife was living.
With him or not, no, not at the time. She unfortunately suffered from dementia, so she lived in a home nearby. She was falling over and whatnot, and she was he couldn't pick her up anymore when she would fall over, and it just got a bit difficult. So he moved her into the closest home to his home that he could, and every day, like clockwork, he went and visited terr at three o'clock.
What was the relationship like with your grandparents in the whole family? And I guess what I'm looking for here is the relationship between you, Brittany and your grandparents and in particularly your granddad, what was that relationship?
Like, honestly great. My grandfather was that type of person that you could always call. You know, you might get a lecture about something, but you know, he would always be there to support you. He would do anything for
his grandkids. He was a very proud family man. He loved the idea of lineage and that you knew where your family came from and you know, would drive down Adelaide for example, or you know, we're flown he'd pick me up from the airport and before we go home, we'd go down every street that any family member lived on and you'd get the full history lesson. I can go back probably four or five generations past before him.
Wow.
So yeah, he was a really proud man. There's actually one particular one I remember. I mean, my sister probably wouldn't remember, but she was on the a baby at the time. But we were all at the house in matt Warren Park and they had flown up and they were doing like this big holiday and they were staying with us for a while. And I think they were up because my mother had just given birth to Brittany, and I just remember very clearly that she was like in her bassinet and we were just all one big
family unit. And I think it was the first time that I come to grips that, like, I have a sister, And I think that was a really nice moment. And I actually think it's on camera somewhere too. Funny.
One of those family moments is in a few of the photos that Ryan sent me of some happier times. It's a picture of the family sitting in the house in Adelaide on an old fabric couch. There's a knitted quilt on the table and Ryan sitting on his and his knee with his granddad close by. His pop is wearing thick rim glasses and holding a video camera which looks like it's brand new, and Ryan looks like he's about four years old. It's a year or so later
that his sister, Brittany is born. Let's talk about Brittany for a minute. What was she like at school.
Through primary school? I would say pretty pretty normal, tomboyish, love sport, you know, very energetic, very mouthy, very mouthy. She she wasn't afraid to let you know what she thought.
You used to fight a lot before your dad got home from work. You know, between three and five pms. You both used to just fight and argue and bicker and pick on each other, and that you're striving up there every day.
Because we were about five years apart, we were in such different stages about life all the time. You know, I was always that older brother, but not like I look at other friends that have, you know, one or two years apart, and they all seem to be a little bit closer. But I was. You know, I was already in high school and she was in primary school, and I think, you know, different music tastes and just
even different maturity. So we did get on each other's nerves a lot in the earlier stage, I do, I do remember that. And then as we grew older, we became quite close. You know.
She loved hanging out with you.
Yeah, yeah, which was nice, Like we're able to drive around the city and go get dinner and you know, go to shows and stuff because you know, as an adult you've sort of got the means to do that.
You were so different. She was pretty sporty, you know, riding a scooter, riding a bike, where you didn't like any of that, you know, you didn't want to play footy or cricket or anything like that, and she was the sporty one. So the interests were very different, weren't they.
That other voice you hear is Ryan and Britney's mum, Tanya. It's all still a bit raw for Tanya, so with her permission, we were able to record a chat with her and Ryan for use in the podcast. In future episodes, we'll have a deeper chat with Tanya, but for now, it's important to get the background of what the family was like when it was all a little bit more normal. It was different. When Brittany was in primary school, Ryan told me that she had a strong friend group.
She had a lot of friends and particularly really good with people of need as well. Okay, so I remember she used to hang around with this guy. His name was Sam and he was disabled and they became great friends, so very very nurturing, and I think was really good with you know, bullying situations where you know, they might pick on him and you know, she stood up for him.
And yeah, she had quite a large group. But then as she sort of moved into like that year seven time frame, she started to shift a little bit, she would start bullying a little bit, and she seemed really down, and then we sort of figured out that she was self harmy.
Was she bullying others or others bullying her bullying her?
At the beginning, we didn't really know a great deal at the time yet started to really get picked on, and back then schools were pretty blacks with it all, so we weren't really getting fed any information, but we since found out it was you know, it was quite bad.
What sort of things would they What have you found out about that bullying at the time, Well.
At the time, because she was a real tomboy, I think she was getting sort of picked on about potentially being, you know, a lesbian. I think year five, year six. As your body starts to change, she became a bit bigger. People would obviously pick on her about her weight, and just because she she was sort of obsessed with looking a bit rough and tumble as well at the time, so you know, she chopped a full hair, to my mum's dismay, and so I think people started really picking
on her. She looked a bit boyish.
It probably started with Sam. You know that the fact that she was sticking up to the bullies for him, and then she sort of found oh, all that works, so you know, you can't pick on me because I'd just use that same defense. And then she did turn into the bully later on in the high school year.
When did the worry start to kick in for you?
I don't know if I really did worry about her so much. She she was so secretive. She wouldn't tell me anything, even though we were pretty close. You know, when we lived out at Jim Boomber, I used to take a week off work every holiday, so I was home with her in the holidays. We could go out and do things together with down at Adelaide, So we were pretty close. But she just wouldn't tell me anything.
And I didn't really think anything was wrong. She only had a couple of close friends in high school that she would talk to me about.
To call teenage moodiness, right, yeah, I thought exactly.
And I thought the way I was with my dad when I was growing up, I didn't tell him anything, and you know, I didn't ask him anything, just assume that she would be the same. And you know, I really didn't push the fact. I thought she would talk to me if she ever had to, But even with her, you know, being gay or bye or whatever she was, she would never actually say it. And I would say to her, well, we know Ryan's gay. Ryan come out and told me that he's gay, excepted that why can't
you tell me if you were? Because I don't know could she tell? And she still wouldn't very secretly.
She always was like in high school, definitely, I think the bullying sort of switched. She sort of became the bully. And with that, you know, there was self harming and whatnot. But yeah, then the email stage certainly kicked in.
How did you find out about the self harm or your parents find out?
Actually I found out first again when she was in high school. I was already out of high school. So she would stay over my house a lot. I lived in Karendale in Brisbane, so not that far away, and she would should come over and should stay the weekend, would go and do things, and I just remember I was in the lounde room and she was wearing these denim shorts and her shorts sort of slipped up further above the knee, and I just remember catching what looked
like to me like a spiderweb, that makes sense. It was just this entanglement of one hundreds of slices all over her left leg, and I just immediately went, what is that? And she just yanked her pants like down to cover it and just would not talk about it. She's like, oh, I fell over. I said, that is not falling over, and she just would not go into it at all, to the point that you know, I probably pressed a little bit too hard, but you know, she burst into tears and I said, I need to
know what's going on. And at that point our relationship was really quite close. Again that five year gap. I think really when I had left high school, created more like of an adult bond, you know, I had the means to turk her out for you know, dinners and would go around the city and all of that sort of stuff. So I think we became I became less cool brother and more adulty. And I think as soon as I talked to her about that, leg just closed up,
would not talk about it. And then I obviously told my parents about it.
Have they react.
Mum was shocked. I think she knew that potentially there was self harming in the past. There was a situation actually where and I slipped walked as a child so I sort of put it down to that. But one day I was sort of I was in our shower and my sister and I shared a bathroom, and I noticed that there was my razor shoved down the drain of the shower, and I sort of pulled it out, and I thought, that's really odd. What is that doing
down there. I sort of put it down to I was doing really weird things in my sleep, So maybe that's just something that I did. And I look back at that now, and my mum and I have spoken about this that I think that was there very much for a purpose, and yeah, I think it was happening long before we knew.
In the court sentencing of Brittany and her co accused back in twenty seventeen, the judge also made remarks of Britney's past. Britney was convicted of murder at the age of twenty. She committed that murder the murder of her granddad at nineteen. We've used an AI voice to read part of the summary of the judge's comment.
Having suffered from a conduct disorder since your childhood, involving behavioral disturbance, aggression and violence beginning in primary school and continuing throughout your teenage years.
When Ryan was a kid, their parents didn't have much money, but as the family business started taking off, things got a little more flush. Britney was moved from a public school to a private school, and it's about this time that things start going downhill.
Withdrawing very moody. How did that show up agression? It was, It's sort of hard to pinpoint exactly, but just very withdrawn from the family and friends. Didn't really seem to have many friends at that time, you know, we, like I said earlier, we knew a lot of her friends. We knew their names. You know, they'd go to parties, your birthday party is that sort of thing, and then it all just sort of stopped and we'd maybe hear one person's name or barely get a conversation out of her.
She's very close to my dad though, but just kept to herself. Clothes changed, really got into Lady Gaga funny enough, I think she really loved the whole your Different message, that whole little Monster's thing that Lady Gaga calls them, and really started to get quite obsessed with that.
This is the manifesto little Monster.
When they're young, little monsters learn.
That they are scary, ugly, stupid, uned by cupid.
Oh boyd.
But every monster needs to.
Find that secret de Brownside, the transform doctor Jack gone into second.
You said she was she was close to your dad. How did that show up and what did that look like?
They would do a lot together, fishing, you know, rough howls, make jokes, watch some sort of shows, you know, just generally hang out.
Did she have a partner of boyfriend girlfriend. You talked earlier that she was being bullied for possibly liking the same sex her sexuality at that point? Was that a question?
No, Actually, it really wasn't. Going through primary school and high school, you know, she really took an interest into guys. She would talk about how guys were attractive, and you know, river boys from home and away and that sort of thing. So no, it never really came into question until when she left high school. And then you know, we knew
about Shelby, and then that was sort of advancing. But it was never really spoken about, not because we didn't want to talk about it, because she never really wanted to bring it up.
When did she leave school?
She finished at twelve?
Okay, did you ever talk to her about her dreams and aspirations of what she wanted to do.
Definitely, I think my sister was not very ambitious. My sister, you know, I always sort of was very driven. I just sort of knew what I wanted to do. And I think that was a very big part of my parents as well. You know, it was all about, you know, you've got to make something of yourself in this world. And I think that really comes down to us having a better life than what they had. I guess I was very driven. I knew exactly what I wanted and sort of how to get it. Where she didn't. She
didn't really have any drive. She didn't really know what she wanted to do. Actually, at one stage she wanted to become a cop and sort of go down that path, but that didn't sort of suffice. And so when I started noticing her being a little bit different after high school, and you know, she was hanging out with Shelby a lot, she actually had a fight with my parents and just moved out and moved in with Shelby's parents. And I
just thought that was really strange. And because of the lack of drive, she still didn't really have a job. I told her she needs to move in with me. And then I really started to press about what are you doing now?
Like did she move in with you?
She did?
She did?
She did?
How long did you two live together?
For? Not a great deal. It did not work. She lived there, I'd probably say just under a month. She could not get the grasp of paying rent. You know, I was only charging her fifty dollars a week. It was minimal. We didn't really need the money. But it was about teaching her I guess how the world works, and you know, responsibility, and that included all her food or everything. You know. She would not show up for days,
which whatever, that's just what she wanted to do. But then go, oh, well, I'm not going to pay for like three days I wasn't here. That's not really how it works. And that was essentially the downfall. And I would press her a lot, like are you going to go to tafe? Now? Are you going to go in st?
Did she have a job or anything?
No, she was telling us that she worked for I think it was Domino's. But I never saw a uniform. I never. I never, you know, sort of should go to work at weird times to what I would think a pizza shop would be open for It's.
Hard to believe that your sister is a murder. It's the things Ryan learned about her becoming that murderer that's shocking. The event started when Brittany was at school. It's not something that Ryan or his mum would ever think would happen, but there were signs as Brittany was growing up. One of those signs was her love the macab TV show called American Horror Story.
And again touching back onto the Lady Gaga thing. She was in a season on American Horror Story and I think that's where that started.
OA.
Oh she's on this show. I'm going to watch it.
I tell you, if you weren't dead already, you disgust me.
You're still upset about the Dago you screwed up to me.
You robbed me of the thing I love the most, And now I never want to see her pathetic, miserable face ever again.
Yes, the fascination started to really come.
Was there a particular song that she was listening to from Gaga?
They're Born This Way? Okay, and Judas loved that one as well. That was something that we did together as well. Every time Leader go I came into it. You know, I would buy as tickets and we would we'd go. You know, she's a great performer. I'm happy to go and see her too. But it was that was a bit of a bonding thing. But yeah, it was was truly obsessed with that.
What about drugs? Obviously we know what we know now post coort, Yeah, but at the time, trying to take your mind back, did you think drugs played a part?
Like?
No, way they were. And you know, I really, even even today, I struggle so much to wrap my head around all the drugs and what she was doing. And because she hit it so well, you know, I look at I look back at that time and even now, I'm going, I couldn't see a thing. I couldn't see a thing to do the drugs.
Did she drink?
Not really in front of me, not really, you know, like.
So if you went out, she wouldn't like be loose.
And nope, nope, never. And this is what's so shocking. You know, we had her eighteenth at my parents' house on their property and it was very tame. I guess an indication of where she was at in life as well, is like she had no friends that turned up to that eighteenth It's really sad. Yeah, really sad. It was just all family friends and at the time we didn't really realize, you know. And then even on that night,
Mom sort of pressed, like where were your friends? So you know, I don't know, they might come later, you know, all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, just downplaying it.
Downplayed it a lot.
Yeah, she'd only has one or two good friends or you know, friends that she would let mom and dad meet. Maybe that was the whole ring. And that was Shelby. Remember at her eighteenth birthday and two girls turned up at the end of the.
Night, Like, really, at the end of the night, party is over. Yeah.
Yeah, but I didn't even know who they were. I've never met them before.
I remember you saying to her, you know, where's everyone crying? And do you remember what she would say? Oh?
Yeah, she had different excuses like, oh, they're on their way, or they'll be here later, or they're just happened dinner first. And you know, we had the pig on the spit, we had all that alcohol and the sloshy machines and all that go. I'm thinking there was going to be a lot of people. Yeah, I think those two girls turned up at the end of the night. People were already leaving to go home, and it was just family
and friends. You know that would come for us as a family, but we all dressed up, you know, it was come as your favorite musician, and she was dressed up as Lady Gaga.
Of course.
Of course.
Yeah, none of her friends turned up. That was Yeah, that should have told us a lot.
Then Brittany did have some friends. One of those friends is in jail now as well. She was an accessory to the murder of Robert Whitwell. We'll talk about Bernadette Burns later. She had one other friend who wasn't connected with the murder of Britney's granddad, but did travel to Adelaide with Brittany months before her granddad was killed. Her name is Shelby Holmes. Your sister was living out of home at eighteen. She was living with Shelby. How do you reckon they became friends.
I think because they were both a bit of an outcast at school, it sort of naturally gravitated that way. Shelby seemed quite sweet as well, and I think that was a nice balance for my sister, and probably you know that attracted her to her as well.
When you mean sweet, talk to me about what you mean by that.
She had this sense of you know, I guess in my own words, sense of innocence, like naivity. I guess, just very airy fairy, just sort of liked and yeah, bubbly, I guess, and just she just was a sweet girl.
You know.
She didn't really talk much, so when when she was over mine, she didn't. But she used to go and have dinner with my parents all the time, Shelby. So yeah, that's how I would probably describe her.
Were they just friends or more than friends?
We always thought it was more. Brittany had told me there was, you know, relationship sort of stuff there. It was all it was always sort of when it came out, it was all denied from Shelby's perspective.
Was there anything that seemed i'll use the word weird but unusual about their friendship or their relationship.
That they were just always together, that would be the only unusual thing from an earlier stage. But I guess when I used to pick them up from nightclubs and stuff, I found out that they would go to a lot of strip shows together. You know, it's sort of male strip shows no female love and rockets in particular in the Valley, but I think it since came out in letters that you know, I think they were in there for different reasons other than just to enjoy a show.
It would seem that Brittany and Shelby were very close at the time Brittany moved out of her home, she lived with Ryan for a bit, but then she also moved in with Shelby and her parents. In Quarters revealed there were over nineteen thousand text messages sent between Shelby and your sister a two year period. Do you have any knowledge of any of those text messages and what they might have said.
Yeah, you know, especially on the on the later part, you know, the communication between them was strange, really dark, you know, and the things that they would like to get up to and text about, and what sort of stuff, oh like talking about like cutting people's throats and blood and you know, going to rave parties, which you know doesn't sound so odd, but in the context of everything else, you know, cruising through like setting up to cruise through
cemeteries and stuff, which I get, you know, seems spooky and that sort of thing that it became a constant thing.
More macrb than spooky. Yeah, yeah, And this was part of their general conversation. Was it jokey or was it?
I mean, from an outsider looking in and when you read those messages, doesn't seem very jokey to me. But I guess you can't pick up tone in texts.
Your Poppa said hi to me, he's lovely.
Don't get attached to him.
He might have to die.
I don't think it was joky. From my sister's perspective. I think it was probably a little bit more on the serious side. And I think Shelby knows that deep down. But I think it was certainly played off that it was all meant to be a joke.
In the next episode of My Sister the Murderer.
He was wealthy, do you know. It's funny because of the type of guy he is. You know, he got around in a Kia and then he might upgrade to like as a zuki billino, and you know, he certainly was not flashy. We didn't know at the time how wealthy actually was. It was one of those houses that, again modest, but very charming. You know, it had great street appeal. You drive up the lawn was always manicured. You had those big, you know trees that you can sculpt, and.
Do you know what was in that bag?
Yeah, like bolt cutters and tape and a knife, yeah.
A hammer, tin snips and cable tires. Seems fairly clear what they were going to do. Do you know if they had their mobile phones with them when they where they did? Okay? Yeah, So on the thirtieth of April twenty sixteen, they leave Brisbane and they drove to Adelaide
Just before Mother's Day,