White Gravies Only (with Rob Haze)

There it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where we dive deep, deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories and we finally work to prove that the P in Swaggy p actually stands for proletariat. That's right. Nick Young has been a Marxist this entire time. His whole basketball career was just a political statement, and you

motherfucker's weren't paying attention. The man is trying to introduce equality in a different way in America, and you guys have been treating him like a fool, but not me. I get it, Swaggy proletariat. I'm aware of the work that you're doing. I'm your host, Lengthsthing Kerman as always very excited to be here. I'm pumped, I'm feeling good. I took a big old dump before I got in, so I'm I'm empty. I'm loose. You know what I mean. You gotta come in loosen, buddy, I'm loosing. You know

who else is loose? You know who else is I have to imagine takes big dumps and feels good about him? Is my guest today, my yesterday. He's such a He's such a funny fucking guy. He's so hilarious. You know him from his work on on Sherman's Showcase. You know him from Comedy Central. You know him most importantly from his brand new sketch show called Sneak This on br Kicks. So funny, so talented. Give it up from my guest, Mr Rob Hey, But I did not know that about

Swagey Pete. Oh yeah, it's it's all. It's all in there makes sense. He shot the three and then turned around because he didn't want to look at capitalism. Yeah, he's like, you all are making the mistake of celebrating these big grand achievements when we should be sharing it, mixing it amongst the people you know for sure, for sure, you seem so old. And that's that's why, that's why I like you. Rob. It's now easily your swage by my bullshit. You came to us today. I don't want to.

I don't want to funk around here, Rob. Okay, I don't. I don't want to jibber and jabber here because you came to us today with a a conspiracy theory that that I said this to you already, That number one I had never heard of before in my life. This, this wasn't on my radar. I wasn't you know. I keep my ear to the conspiracy theory streets, and this one,

this one ain't buzzing number one. But then number two also is one that I didn't realize a person could be as passionate about as you've described your mother to be about this one. So this is exciting, and I'm gonna make sure I I get the phrasing exactly as you gave it to me. You said, my mama told me white gravy is for white people and brown gravy is for black people. That's correct. Tell me more. Okay. So I grew up in Atlanta Georgia, pretty black city surroundings.

High school percent black except for white Mike. And his name wasn't Mike. Okay, uh yeah, you know principle was that a play on that Mr. Cooper spin off? It was it was a play on the Wayne's Brothers character, right, it wasn't Mr Wayne's Brothers and they didn't get his own spin off. Yeah yeah, yeah, sleeping on the couch, white Mike. That's what we call them. One white person in our great Yeah. So I get to college. I get to the University of Georgia, school that I think

at the time was eight percent black, complete culture. Shock, first time really being around white people, like like all day every day. And those are those are those big corn fed white people. Those ain't just uh that's not like a casual introduction into white people that that sort of look and move like you do. These are big old country whites. Yeah, yeah, no, they're not the whites I was watching on the o C exactly totally different. Yeah yeah no, the people cross the hall did dip.

So yeah, that's time I'm seeing seeing that type of thing. And so we are in the dining halls in University of Georgia Award winning like the best food. You know, we have one dining hall. It's twenty four hours just food at any time, just you know, pushing those metabolisms to the limit. So we get there and and at breakfast sometimes they have biscuits, but then they have white gravy. And that was my first time eating it, and it

was good. I liked it. And so then I feel like we went to Cracker Barrero or something with my mom one time she came in town, went the Cracker Barrel and I had sausage gravy with my biscuit. You would have thought I had like a Nazi tattoo. You would have thought I had like like something crazy heaving. She just like was so mad, and she was like, you know, you're not supposed to be eating gray And I'm like what, I didn't know. I didn't know. And so then and my sister was like, yeah, you know,

you're not supposed to be eating white gravy. You know, like I might as well have brought a white girl home like like that. That's how they were treating me. They were acting like I betrayed my race by bringing white gravy. Well, there's so much here that I love because because in a beautiful way, you went off to college to better yourself. Do you know what I mean?

You went off to to go get the education that I imagine your parents worked very hard to encourage you to get and and provide for you and all the things. You go off to college. They're they're they're sitting at home and they're thinking, our our sweet boy are lovely, Our sweet boy, he's done it. He's he's finally made it. And and you're secretly at college eating the Devil's the

Devil's topic. You know, you're just you're just dipping biscuits and the Devil's juice, and and unbeknownst to your mother, who then takes you to cracker Barrel, which already is a problematic position for her to take if she's worried about you. Loves cracker barrel to hey, quite gravy. It loves crackle Barrel. Like there's a picture of us. It's on I G somewhere. We're in rocking chairs waiting till like going the cracker barrel, like we my grandmother loves

cracker barrel. Like when they like came out like, hey, there's some racist issues. We stopped going for like maybe a year, like maybe we stopped going and then ninety nine we went right back. She took a quick respite, just a little break in in the midst of the developing Willennium. She said, I'll step back, I'll give this a second, but then I'll come back to Cracker Barrel because I can't get enough of it once. Jesse Jackson

got everything straight at Cracker Barrel. But but the more beautiful thing is she takes you to to what could one could argue is maybe one of the whitest restaurants that exists, certainly in the South, and then gets angry at you. It feels betrayed by you, even when she realizes that you have now subscribed to some of the white dishes that this white restaurant searchs with cracker in the name Cracker Barrel. Yeah, okay, So so she says this to you. She goes, you know you're not supposed

to be eating that. You're your sisters as you know you're not supposed to be eating that. What do you then do? Do you then spit it out of your mouth and you say I'll never do this again, or you do do you stand up for your right to eat this white gravy. I just stand up for for the fact that it just seemed ridiculous. Sure, you know, I just was like, we eat sausage. You're cool with sausage. You're cool with sausage patties links. However, but for some reason,

when it'send a gravy, it's it's a problem. What do you think it is? What? What do you think triggers triggers her so much that makes the white gravy so offensive. I think that my mom is is a New Yorker, and so she she was a transplant to the South, and I think she associates white gravy with the old South h old. That's now. That is a very astute observation, because I'll be honest, not having spent much time in the South at all, I growing up had no I

wasn't even aware of white gravy. White gravy isn't necessarily a common thing where I'm from, certainly not in like the major cities of like the North and Midwest. Like that's not we ain't fucking around in white gravy, all our gravy dark skin where I'm from. You know what I'm saying, And it certainly ain't as much of a breakfast thing as it is, like, uh, gravies for for

big old hearty meals that ain't breakfast for sure. And I and in my travels, I have learned that people outside of the South don't know how to do like gravy. And so it's it's one of those things where you know if if you get the wrong white gravy, it will turn you out forever. You're like, I'm never putting that google ever again. It's not sweet, and it's not it's not good. Yeah, So it's it's one of those things where you gotta have the right white gravy in

order to really appreciate it. I have a theory that no matter where you're from, everyone loves their trash. I like this, I like your head. Okay. So you know, like like you'll meet someone they'll be from a place and they'll be like, well, you had to grow up with it. You had you know. You you go to Nebraska, they're like, you ever had a runsa And it's like the sandwich it's got onions. It's kind of like the bread is fried and everything will tear your stomach up

if you didn't grow up with it. But it's great, you know, like Philly cheese steaks, like you know, like Mexican food out here, like you know, like everybody has their food that you know you shouldn't be eating, but

because you have nostalgia for it, you love it. Where I where I'm from, Uh, we used to be able to go to a corner store by a bag of flaming hots, and then you could get the dude in the back to put some like meat and some nacho cheese on top of the flaming hots in the bag, so it would just be like a pocket of of nacho flaming hots and you eat it with a fork. And that ship you used to fucking bang, you know what I mean? Like as person, Yeah, I fu but

I loved it, you know what I'm saying. Like I would die for that ship, and I would defend I would defend my house and home in honor of a bag of flaming hots covered in nacho cheese and and unproofed meat, you know what I mean. But now, if if talking to a person who obviously didn't grow up with that experience, I fully respect that. You go, hey, dog, don't do that no more. Yeah. No, if I saw that at eight, I'm like, I'm game, yeah, you know, No, in my thirties, I'm like that that's a bag of

flame and hats might take me out now. But you know, like like in the middle of the country, they have covers a place that will sell you cheese curds and a milk shade, and it's like that should be illegal. That's not that literally is is just selling a cork for your anis, Like, it's not. You might as well just cork your anis directly and just call it that. But I did a school in Wisconsin and I was like, I'm not gonna be able to come to Colvis again.

So I like their ice cream. I like the cheese curves. I'm gonna try to do them both. Have sense. I respect. I respect that you took that risk. People love Whitecastle, you know, I love white Castle, right like people who grew up around Whitecastle love white Castle. My father's from Louisville, Kentucky, the big white Castle town, White Castle. White white Castle is huge and little, Like that's what a sad statement to stay about anywhere that somebody lives to be like, yeah,

it's a big white castle. Then, like the judgment and and just shipping on them without saying it directly that you're doing by calling them a big white castle town is chef's kiss, you know. But so I know that

love for Whitecastle. But then when I got to New York, it was like, Oh, these people never had good white Castle, so they don't expect it, so they're not making it like, oh, white Castle could be good, you know, like there's a difference between Ohio white Castle and New York Brooklyn, you know, Bushwick Whitecastle. Yes, when when we were and you and I were in New York around the same sort of like era. When we were in New York, there were like two white castles that I at least was aware of.

There are three. There were two. There was one in bed Sty, there was one in bush Twik across from Legion Bar where that open mic was, and then finally there was one in the Bronx. Now it was Harlem up like when you were trying to go to the airport, you could like get off on like one of the Harlem stops and then be at a white Castle and then catch the bus to get to the airport. All of those places. While I did eat at all three of those locations and listen. I'm a fan. I'm a

fan first, I'm a fan always White Castle. If you want to do an endorsement with me, goddamn it, I'll take the minimum. I'm just a fan of your workfellas, Mr Castle. I I love what you do. That said, I agree with you. They're not putting the same effort care love into them little ass burgers and onions that you would find in a state that prides itself on good.

White Castle. Nashville, the furthest South White Castle goes. So you know, like so on the way to Little go go through Nashville, that's the first time you can get the White Castle. That's especially they got crystals and White Castle. It's it's yeah, that's like that that meme with the Crip and the blood tied their flags together, That's what that is for sure for sure. So yeah, but I when I got to Brooklyn, I'm like, there's a White Castle walking distance from my house. I'm gonna go there.

And then I mean it just I just felt the like disbelief and like, you know, you could see everything that's going on in the back and I could just feel like, oh, these people they don't believe in good fast food. That I can't make good fast food because they don't believe in good fast food. No, they think they're better than this and therefore can't make the product that it deserves to be. M you know what I mean.

It's it's it's no different frankly than fucking drugs, right that Like, at the end of the day, there is a different between like shit heroin and great heroin, and and it's neither one of them is good for you, but you want the good heroine. And at least the Midwest and the South when it comes to fast food and some of the other less coveted things, they at least take the time to make the good version of the bad thing, if that makes But see they don't

have corner stores. In New York. They got corner stores. They'll make a sandwich next to where you buying random groceries, and that's acceptable. But you know, in the South, if you get a hot dog next to you know where you buy a lottery tickets and highly frowned upon. Okay, So where do you stand now in the white gravy conversation? Are you still a white gravy advocate? Have you backed off of your white gravy beliefs. Where where do you

live in this whole? Okay, I treat white gravy like how like liberal with conservative parents treat their views like I'm not gonna bring white gravy home for the holiday, you know, but on my own time, i might sneak and have some white gravy while I'm in the South. Yeah, damn, okay, I'm gonna talk about it. I'm not gonna be like, you know, oh yeah, I had some biscuits, you know, and then open the whole conversation of oh did you

put on your biscuits. I'm not gonna You're not You're not coming home, and like taking a big stance where you're like, mom, I'm a white gravy man, fucking yeah, I'm not doing that. I'm thinking this except me for who I am. I'm not gonna ruin Christmas. I'm not gonna do that. That's fair and honestly that that to me feels like the more reasonable approach to something that makes your family uncomfortable, like even politically socially gravely, I think you had some point just have to go this

is for me, it's not for them. And as long as I am not hurting them and they are not hurting me. We can live with these things separately. They don't have to accept every element of who I am in order for us to be able to function and enjoy each other. That's real, that's real. I think. Also, I don't know how to make it. If I knew how to make white gravy, it might be like another story, because then I could I could just whip some up

in the kitchen and just really drive everybody crazy. But because I don't know how to make it, that's you know, that's another thing. Do you do you think your mom has ever had white gravy? Is this like a green eggs in Ham type situation? It might be. It might be a green eggs and Ham sprinkled with a little you know, civil rights movement, yeah, and yeah, slavery and whatnot.

But but green eggs and Ham, I'm sure in in the Dr. Seuss universe, green Eggs and Ham comes from a dark history of of abuse and fucking, you know, genocide. There's probably genocide behind the green eggs in hand. That Sam I Am character. He had a much more complicated stance than the book I think leads us to believe you know. Yeah, no, there's a reason why they're making people try green eggs. Yeah, there's a you know, like

like food is scarce, Yes, food is scarce. These green eggs are all we have left, and they come from a terribly dark history. But you know, you gotta try him, apparently, and honestly, that's how they get you, because they they trick you into submitting to what's left and the what's left cause it's it comes from pain, it comes from tragedy, it comes from hurt. That you can't uncook, that you can't unboil or scramble if you will in a box. Okay,

let me ask you this question. Do you feel like your mother or your family in general have other sort of like foods that they associate with, like specifically white people, that they would be equally sort of flabbergasted by you choosing to to like eat or introduced to the family. M M, I don't know. I can't think of another another instance. I'm trying to think of other foods. This is the one I've this. My my family is really

like that's the thing. We're like, we're we're not that family, Like we're not that like my mom makes cast roles like like of all the people in the world, like this is where she draws the line. But you know she's she's flirting with some some some stereotypes that that are not with black people, like makes Green being Cassero sometimes. Wow. Yeah, I've never had that from a black person. Yeah, yeah, I I never understand spinach cast role. It's like, what, like,

all castle rolls to me are the same. They just take a vegetable and then make it worse. It looks nice, it looks nice, but it's like, I'd rather just have this vegetable by itself. It's probably better. I didn't grow up with casse roles. I don't know a lot about them. I did really like uh and granted, and this is worth noting, I have a very shitty palette, right, Like my taste buds don't work well. I'll pretty much eat anything.

I am not a particularly picky person nor a particularly discerning person, and when it comes to the food that I'll put in my mouth. But I did genuinely love like Tuna Helper, and I feel like Tuna Helper was as close to a casse role as my family could find itself. You know what, I mean, it's essentially casserole. It's just now in a box. And most people would be like, you should kill yourself for eating that, and I'd be like, as long as I'm buried with some

tuna casserole, I kill myself right now. Tuna helper, man, Yeah, I don't what So what is tuna helper? Is it? You put it with the tuna or it's its own thing now it's it's an offshoot of Hamburger Helper. It was Hamburger helper being like we killed the game or Hamburger not less funk around in other meats. And then they use tuna fish and much in the way that

you would with with Hamburger helper. You're basically, uh, you're mixing their seasonings and pre ingredients with the meat that you purchased to create a noodle slash meat casserole to serve to unsuspecting victims. Okay, okay, this sounds smelly, It sounds like that sound good. But I've definitely had hamburg a head. But we definitely grew up with the glove for sure. But yeah I didn't, Yeah, I didn't go that far into the into the tuna helper. If you're

not in the Helper multiverse? What are you doing? You know, it's truly, it's a it's a delightful male if you don't have great standards for what a good meal is. M h okay, let me ask you this last question that we'll go to break. Do you feel like your mother in any way has changed because you're telling me this happened when you were in college. This was so I assume at least a decade ago that had this

experience happened. Do you feel like there's any chance that your mother has has come around to now appreciate or at least respect white gravy differently than she did before. I mean, I think she knows them on killing because I'm around. But other than that, I think, you know, I don't think my mom will ever ever eat white gray. I think it's a rap, you know, I don't I don't really know the origin, Like, I don't know, you know,

what happened to her. What you know, if she sees white's only when she sees the gravy getting put on the plate or what. But yeah, I just if there

was some kind of paper bag test or something. Yeah, but I just yeah, I do like to imagine your mother as a young child, dining somewhere with with her family, and then uh, a mean white man walks into a restaurant and and splashes her in the face with a couple of hot gravy, hot white gravy, and that just it marred her, had scarred her and left her with this bad taste in her mouth that she'll never be

able to recover from. And then you, her beautiful baby boy, does the most uh, I guess offensive thing that you could have done by by eating the poison right in front of her. Damn, that's that's sad. I gotta ask, I gotta ask her. You gotta get my mom on the phone. Yeah, just as her. Did you get splashed with white gravy? Is that why we listen to so much Al Green growing up, because you can relate he

got splash. Grits is probably far worst than gravy. You know, I think instand this, I think how Green will tell you first hand, it's way worse. All Right, We're gonna take a break. We'll be back with more Rob Hayes and more. My mama told me, and we are bad. My man is supposed to meet with this ship. Yeah,

we're back here with more robes more. My mama told me, we're still talking about that infamous white gravy and whether or not it is in fact the work of the white devil, whether the white man is the true owner of white gravy, and if us, the black people, the people of color in the world are are meant to strictly stay on the colored gravy side of the line.

That's that's the conversation at hands. Do you think that that are other races struggling with this same conversation, I said, people of color, But I don't know if this is like our you know what I mean? Are they're brown people wondering if they they too need to avoid white gravy because of the white man's influence. I don't think it's a black white thing. I think I think it's a poc white thing. I think I think people of color it's supposed to have brown gravy and and and

white gravy is is purely for white people. That's that's pretty funked up. I say that that people of color all get lumped into a single gravy, or at least the darker gravvies, and white people just get to hold onto an entire you know what I mean, They got a whole little sector to themselves. It's not one gravy,

but it's it's one color. So you know, like the gravy they put on a fool young at the at the Chinese restaurant looks like so food gravy that you put on stuffing looks like you know, like like all the all the poc gravy looks the same. The only gravy that doesn't look the same, it's sausage gravy. White gravy.

Goddamn it. Okay, Well, I did some research that I would love to unpack with you, and I think I hope that there's some of this that might be a little illuminating for both of us, and I I I encourage you to refute and discuss as much as you wish, because some of this, I don't know is necessarily hugely even on topic to what you you've introduced. But I

do think introduces a bunch of interesting conversations. So it's a pretty hard topic to look up via Google search, you know what I mean, It's not it's not an easily google ble thing. Were I typed in do black people like white gravy, and then it just ended up being like a bunch of fatass Southern people saying very jarring things about how much they like putting gravy on everything they eat, like everything, like there was people talking about At one point somebody said they they consider gravy

more of a beverage than a topic. That's scary. Yeah, that's scary. I didn't care for it at all. I've I had, I felt sick. I had to walk away, and then I came back. Not new, but but different for George, because once cools, it's it's a different thing. It's yeah, and if it can jeels and starts to separate, but somebody's drinking it anyway. There does seem to be and this this starts to get into some of the

the history of this whole white gravy thing. There does seem to be an actual origin of sausage gravy, which I didn't realize. There they they've traced the actual origin of sausage grave feed to southern Appalachia in the late eighteen hundred Civil War time, you know what I mean, Right around them Civil War times, whities came up with

white gravy that's interesting. Yeah, it was originally apparently called sawmill gravy because it was cheap and calorie dance and an easy go to meal to feed the sawmill workers of the area. Particularly they would be, you know, having to spend all day carrying this lumber and and doing all this ship to to make sure that black people uh stayed I guess as property, and you know, they

had to be fed. And so an easy way to feed them was with with thick ass bread and an an additional like topping of gravy which was easy to make and it would fill them up for the day. Remind me what is the sawmill? Uh? Sawmill, I believe refers to basically just the lumber, Like that's where they make lumber and saw it turn it into other ship got to plantation wood. Hell yeah, I also could be very wrong. Rock. I am what's known as almost smart.

I don't actually know some stuff, and I just talk in a way that makes me seem like I might actually know what I'm talking. You know, I always I always default to you when I'm around Lakes, and it's always like, all right when Lakes is a smart guy, No man, he says, it's fact I say a lot of stupid stuff. I come to the argument the other day with with a few friends because I didn't realize that babies are born in a sack, do you know

what I mean? Like, we were having an argument where where it was suggested that some babies can come out in the sack that's inside the mother's womb, and I I was very defiant. I said, no, there is no sack. The womb is the sack. What the funk are you all talking about? And then we looked it up and there is, in fact a sack that's connected to the placenta that sort of is what the baby lives in. And it's true some babies do come out in the sack.

And I think that's where serial killers come from. That's what the stork is holding onto the baby. Said, so that's a that's a real fun image. If if you look up babysack, you're not gonna like that bit in your head anymore. I'm not gonna look up baby seck right now, just because of what else might pop up, but my own dark mode. I might look up baby stead.

You look up babysack, you're going to jail. Playboy, So one of the more fascinating parts of all of this that that I didn't realize is that the gravy seems to have not been only a function of adding calorie used to a meal, but it also seems to have been a way of softening the very thick bread of this time, because apparently the first biscuits of America, the first biscuits that were being made at this time, were much denser and sturdier than the biscuits that we find

in a restaurant today. They were thick, like dumb thick mm hmmm. So so Popaye is is keeping it like, oh Gene, Yeah, Popeye's is like, win't we ain't changed the game once? Yeah, Popeye is taking it back to the sawmill and like, if this was good enough to feed the sawmill boys, this is good enough to feed your black ass mm hmmm mm hmmm. Enjoy our thick biscuits. So these biscuits that I'm referring to were originally known as beaten biscuits, right, beaten biscuits, because they got their

leavening from being vigorously beaten and fall olded. Sometimes it would take an entire hour just to be able to beat the dough into something usable to be able to turn into biscuits. So it required a ship ton of labor. And you guessed it, Rob, Who do you think was responsible for doing that super taxing labor? The pills very dough boy, oh boy, very different colored pills, very dough boy. They didn't the boy. But it wasn't It wasn't the pills, Mary,

It's it was slaves. Slaves Thias were responsible for this very physical labor and they were the ones that were making these beaten biscuits. Now here's where it gets even crazier, because these beaten biscuits are being made by slaves, than the Civil War happens. Then the thirteenth Amendment kicks in and it's no longer reasonable right to keep slaves. Are

very upset about that. And then white people basically say that, and this is a a real thing that was quoted from some book that some very smart person wrote about this, but that basically white people took the stance that it had come to be viewed as too burdensome to keep making biscuits. They were like, fuck this, it's it's too much more. I don't even want to do this ship because of how sucky the labor was Wow. Yeah, So

then what happened to biscuits? Great questions. So in eighteen seventy seven, a machine was invented for doing the work that would have had to been done by black people. They basically turned they found a cotton gin if you will, to help leavin this bread. And it turned out that it actually made And this is again a white person talking about their own invention but saying it's saved beaten biscuits from extinction, but actually made them smoother, prettier, and

more popular than before. I mean, biscuits gotta be good for to only take like ten years before somebody's like, we gotta invent to like make this easier, Like we gotta do something because this is you know, the slaves are free, they're reconstruction. They in Congress. Now we gotta do something to get these biscuits back. Pop, My mom shouldn't be mad at the gravy, she should be mad at the biscuits. Yeah. I think the biscuits made things a lot pretty complicated because the gravy really was just

a response to a need that was being presented. I do love, though, the idea that there was somebody like you're saying, uh, sitting back and thinking to themselves. You know what, man, I don't even really miss slavery that much, but goddamn I missed them biscuits, miss biscuits, man made good biscuits. I want my biscuits back. And they built a machine to try to to solve this problem. So they invent this machine, right, and it it starts to make me question. It introduces a question in my mind.

And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because to me, the question this whole John Henry machine versus man thing that's happening where they go. The machine finally could do the thing that no man up to that point was able to do. I don't buy that ship. A part of me starts to believe, rob that maybe these slaves were intentionally leaving those beaten big biscuits extra thick, with the hopes that their oppressors might choke to death and then they could escape to freedom before they were

supposed to. If you will, oh, and you think that they will be saved by the white gravy, yes, or or not saved, but certainly uh kept in chains even longer. No, no, no, I'm saying the like the white people were supposed to choke on the biscuits, but the white gravy came in and and fuck up the game. Save the oppressive. Yeah, exactly. Damn. Your mom might be onto something. He's onto something. Yes,

it's devastating. If I was so hungry in the first half of his podcast, I was gonna like go get some like I was gonna go to the store and get some biscuits and make some biscuits. And now I'm not that's fair. Now, Now you gotta do the right thing. I gotta do the right thing. I had so many cards ahead of me before, Like before you told me about the history of this bis what's this biscuit machine code? I don't know. I didn't. I didn't take the care

to look up the biscuit magic biscuits. But apparently I'm off built a biscuit machine and and we we benefited from it somehow. One of the things that that I didn't because I, again I didn't know anything about white gravy before this. Really I've never I've had it. I ain't really that big of a fan, but I certainly didn't grow up on the ship. And one of the things that that sort of came to my mind, is what's the difference? Right, Like, why is white gravy such

a big deal? And part of the reason, and this to me was a really illuminating part of all of this research, is that the birth of white gravy was largely a function of poverty. So in order to make the white gravy, all you needed was the the sort of drippings from a sausage pan, flour, milk or water like.

It was very basic ingredients that were at that point easy to come by, especially in the heart of wartimes, right, And so they created this white gravy, not because it was the best tasting version of what gravy could be, but because it was simple, it was functional, it could last a long time, and it could stretch the ship out of a meal. And so in a beautiful way, it sort of feels like a metaphor for the way that white citizens position themselves in America. Do you know

what I mean? Okay, because it's poverty, but it's like, hey, we not, We're not they pulling themselves up by the sausage strap. Yeah, I think I think, yes, if the sazage straps is is sort of what I'm going for I think in a way it's them being like, yeo, we still continue to take pride because now white gravy is a point of pride in the South right. It is a thing that white citizens will advocate for and

fight for. I read all these these different comments online where people were like, white gravy is it has to be made this way. It's a it's a Southern staple. It cannot be you know, ruined or or or treated poorly, whatever it is. And I think they have learned been trained to create pride where pride should not exist. That this should not be a thing that you're celebrating. It should be a thing that you look back and go, yo,

we were being mistreated by our country. We're sitting here, and we're sitting here and going this is America white graving. And it's like, yeah, America was treating you like ship doc. Yeah. But not only that, it's also saying like, hey, look where we came from. We came from this. Meanwhile, you

had slaves making the biscuits they are you are. You are taking pride in something that you didn't truly create, and then the thing that you did create was mostly created because of a limited amount of resources provided to you by the thing you take the most pride in. It's all a sick game that's sort of being, you know, played on poor white people. And I think the white gravy is a perfect reflection of that. I didn't know who's gonna get this deep, yeah, dog around on this podcast.

I didn't know who's gonna get this deep. Man. I should have known when I signed the release. I've never signed a release four podcasts before. This is amazing, man. This is like is Gates type of stuff, but about Gravey that Nigga Henry Lewis Gates wishes he could talk about gravy. You can talk about Nazis grandfather all you want, Henry. We gotta get into the real ship, which is gravy.

This is I I do genuinely believe that that the white gravy, while polarizing, does feel like this really important metaphor because and then this is also where it was a very illuminating moment for me, because I didn't realize this that apparently at the time, butter into syrup were far more difficult to come by in the South, and and for specifically, you know, poor white people. Butter was like something you had to really work hard to find. And syrup was like crazy hard to find, right, And

so I grew up. You know, in my world, we put jelly and and fucking butter or syrup or whatever it is on a biscuit. And for these people, they didn't have that resource, and so white gravy becomes the other option. I might be converted, man, I might be converted. I might not ever have white gravy again. I feel

like I feel bad. I feels like crazy. Hey, man, your mother, your mother, she sat you down, she tried to talk to you, and something in your head and you you let that slip pass, and and you need to apologize there. You need to call her and say, I'm sorry, Mom, I was bugging on this whole white gravy position. I forgot to mention my mom's a history and teacher. Uh so, yeah, she kind of knew ahead of time already, know she knowing the machines called and everything. Man,

like everybody's listening. Call your mom, man, for real, I love that you're like. I forgot to mention my mom specifically studied the biscuit machine. She went she got a master's degree in biscuit machine of the thesis was biscuit. Ma, goddamn, Well, we learned a lot and we're gonna take a break. We'll be back with more ribs. And my mama told me, and we are back. Yeah, we're back here with more

robbyes more. My mama told me. We're still talking about that devil mix white gravy, the poison that is a perfect metaphor for the evil that white people have have continuously bought into in this country, in America. Goddammit, Robbed, where are you? How are you feeling right now? Where

are you? Where are you with all of this? I mean, you know, I came into this podcast thinking that I broke the color line, thinking that I was the Jackie Robinson of white gravy, And now I know that I am a trated I am my uncle Tom, damn, you know. And what they were eating in his cabin was biscuits and white gray fuck. You know what it's. It's I'll say that it's hard to hear. I don't know what to say to you, so I'll just do this. I hope that's at least a little bit of thoughtlas for

you to be able to walk home with. I don't know this is hard to it's hard to see. I mean, I am home, but I'm gonna have to walk around the black It's a lot. Oh man. Okay, if if you can find the strength, I'd love to play a game. Let's play a game, Okay, shall we? This is This is a fun game. It's a classic game on the show. It's a really fun game. Let me find my drop. It's a game called Homemade Hotep. It's a it's a

fun game where Rob. I'm going to introduce to you a very real fact out in the world, a objective, relatively object active fact out in the world. I'm not gonna go so bold as to say anything subjective anymore, but a pretty objective fact out in the world. And what I would love for you to do, Rob, is put on your hotep hat and just just hotep the

ship out of this fact. Really get into the nooks and crannies, the secrets, the mischief, all the all the ship that might be hidden underneath this supposedly real fact. Does that make sense? That makes all the sense in the world. Hell yeah, this is a fun one. I'm excited to share this one with you. But apparently it is very true that during a renovation of his final home in there were apparently a dozen bodies found in Benjamin Franklin's basement. That Benjamin Franklin, uh man, who's on

a hundred dollar bill. A lot of people mistake him for having been a president of the United States. He wasn't. He just is on our money sometimes apparently had a dozen bodies hidden in his basement. Robbed go crazy, Okay, Benjamin Franklin and hundreds of bodies? Does does a dozen bodies in this basement? Okay? That I mean that? You know, I feel like there's an easy route you could already go of who of who those people are? One thing

you gotta know about Benjamin Franklin is that. See Benjamin Franklin started a newspaper right he was a child, and the newspaper was anti British. Him and his family had to Fleet Town, go to another town he started another newspaper. So he was an entrepreneur, just like did he when he was he was an entrepreneur. He had to go to Howard, back to Harlem. Did he made all about the Benjamin? Oh, where's total? Where's where's loon? Where's shine? Did he had to climb on a lot of of

of black people. In order to get to prominent. Whoa Benjamin Franklin had to do the same. He had a loon, he had a shine, he had a total, he had a faith. He had a baby that was bad. So so you're telling me that in essence, Benjamin Franklin has has his bab's buddy hiding in the basement, locked up in the basement that he had to bury in order to meet his greater success. He had to he had to close down things from time to time. He had

a diadline, He had a chapel. He had a friend, he had a nest, he had a bands, he had a Sarah, he had a Sarah's husband. You know what I'm saying. He was making a band. Benjamin Franklin was making a band and he had to shut it down, and that meant locking the door, and you know, nobody could get out. Nobody could get out. Damn. This is because they didn't want to do the challenges. They didn't want to buckle his shoes. They didn't want to they didn't want to walk, you know, walk to the peach tree.

They didn't want to pick up the cheesecake with the with the kite and the key on it. M hmmmm, walk outside with this kite in this key if you want to be in the Benjamin Franklin band. Yeah, when was the Benjamin frank around seventeen hundreds? Yeah that the seventeen hundreds of DeLine didn't want to do that. I love that. God damn it. That's cool. Motherfucking books. That was beautiful. I I think I think you nailed it.

You know what I love about it is that it reminds us that the same games continue to be played to this day. Maybe not an insane you know, Benjamin Franklin apparently could get away with murder in a way that you and I and maybe even did he cannot do today, But did he can get away with a type of murderer of people's career, a type of stepping on the shoulders of the people in front of him.

And that's all capitalism is, to some extent, is we're all just figuring out a way to take advantage of a person for the sake of our own successes and games. That's deep, man, You really spit some bars today, Rob. I think we did it. I think I think we nailed the whole episode. Could you tell the people at home where they can find you and what cool stuff you have going on. Sure, um, you can find me on Instagram at Rob Hayes r O b HS. You can find me on Twitter at Robert is the Man.

I have an album called Hezipedia. It's on all streaming platforms. I'm on Sneak This, the world's only sketch show all about sneaker culture on VR kicks. And I'm on Sherman Showcase, which you can find our old episodes on Hulu and season two coming soon on AMC and I f C. Hell yeah, please follow Rob. Please funk with sneake This. It's very funny and silly. I already told you in person.

I I've enjoyed many episodes of it. It's great. And as always, you can follow me at Lengstein Kerman and you can please subscribe to the podcast and leave comments and send us drops and ideas to my mama pot at gmail dot com. And if you live in Los Angeles, we're in the Los Angeles, the greater metropolitan Los Angeles area. I'd love for you to come to to my monthly show that happens at a place called the Hotel Cafe it's in West Hollywood. It's very nice and it's a

fun monthly show. And when our next one will be December, and you should come. I would love to see your faces. Please don't disappoint me. I'll beat you. Okay, that's it by Bitch Peace. I went to the last one is five my Crown chips in your mails. Qualibars are racist, the hosting money very stuff. I can't tell me.