Tupac Lives! (with Jay Ellis)

looking at it all through the lens of twenty. We're like, bro harpy about you, Harby, gonna share all if you don't, yeh, shut up, man, You're weird, your jeans are too big, and you're making me uncomfortable with your thoughts. Chips in your nails. Man racist also most money materney stuff you

can't tell me. Yeah, there it is. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to another A magnificent, a devastating, a spectacular episode of My Mama Told Me, The podcast where we died deep deep, super deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories and we finally figure out where the government is hiding. Jazz Faye, Where's jazz government. We know you got him. Fuck Carmen San Diego. Show me where Jazz Faye is. Where in the world is jazz fake ladies, ladies, ladies and gentle lazy.

I need to know where jasse By is. He didn't do anything to anybody. The man's probably he probably did. I haven't likely. I haven't been doing my jazz favor research. Maybe he got canceled at some point along the way, and I just don't know. This is exciting. I'm your host, Lankston Kerman. As always, I was thinking about this the other day that this is the only I think and I dare to say this. This is the only conspiracy theory podcast where we say the word nigga and it's

not coming from a place of hate. Do you know what I mean? Every other conspiracy theory podcast they call people nigga and it's it's a mean nigga. But this is a kind of nigga. This is a loving nigga. My dad hates that I say be in words so much, But you know who doesn't hate that I say the in word. I have no idea how it feels about me say the in word. It's my guest today he's spectacular,

he's hilarious. He's an amazing actor, Champion of champions. You know him from Insecure, you know him from Mrs America, you know him from his podcast The Untold Story Policing. He's the best. Give it up for my guest today, Mr j ellis over our Koala bearers racist for real. I don't know if I heard that whispering there. I heard that whispering there. Uh, you know what it is. They're from Australia, and I feel like almost everybody in Australia is pretty racist, so I'm willing to go that way.

Oh I won't hold a quala bear ever, now, yeah you shouldn't. They're also filled with diseases. There's like a real rule. I don't know if you've ever been to Australia, but there are like real rules in certain cities that you're actually not allowed to hold Koala bears because they are number one, super like endangered and also uh covered in diseases that they only give the black people. Yeah, specifically they hold out. Now, you don't get it today, you don't get it. You don't get it. The Koala

bears love the paper bag test. They can't get enough of it. How are you? I'm good, bro, How you doing. I'm doing all right, it's a good day. I'm glad you're here. You brought to us a conspiracy theory that that I feel like, and I dare say, is the first conspiracy theory I ever subscribe to. That like I ever was like, oh wow, I think I believe in something that the world doesn't want me to believe in. If that you said, And I want to make sure I get this right, you said, my mama told me

tupockets alive and hiding in Cuba. Yeah, she got it from a magazine rush. She got it from one of the joints in the grocery aisle, you know what I'm saying. And she came home one day and she showed it to me, and she was like, you gotta believe it because the Inquirer said it. Sure, Why would the National enquire a lot of us? I mean, they are a truth teller, right, Like, that's what they do, you know what I'm saying, So plish, gotta be real. It's gotta

be bro. They had pictures that they had facts. I don't know that they were where they got the facts from, but they had them. You know, they had him. They put him in bold, so you knew that they were legit. Wait, so so your mother, in fact, was the person that

first introduced this to you. So here's the thing. So my grandpa, my mom's dad, was a truck driver and he would stop and he drove all across the country, right, and his thing was literally to get the inquiry, all the all the what do they call those things now? I can't even think of him. He would get all the magazines, the tabloids there you go. He would get

all the tabloids along his stops. Right, so as he would stop and see us, we were told home at the time, and when he would stop and see us, he would always like give a little bit of wisdom. So my mom was actually I think my mom was actually like he was the first person that told me there was an alien cult that worshiped Oprah for example. You know what I mean? Oh, okay, he was Okay, he was out there. He's coming back from home every time with a little treat for you to go a

little more crazy with out in Tulsa. Just let's shake things up around here. And then he getting this truck and he did well I think my my mom, I think was actually telling me this as a joke. I think she was like playing she was. I think she was making fun of my grandpa. You know what I'm saying. I don't think she was necessarily truthful that pocket was

hidening cube, but maybe she was. I don't know. I should ask her, But I remember her coming home one day and she had bought an inquiry and it was like one of those super super grainy photos of like a black cuban on a beach who happened to be ball headed, just one dude with a goatee and he had a tattoo. You know what I'm saying. It didn't even say thug life. It just said, uh, trabajo. But you know, so, so after that, you know what I'm saying, She she she put it in my head. I got

you and so and so she puts this in your head. Well, your grandfather he puts it in her head. She puts this in your head. And then you do you believe it? Are you a hundred percent? Audiend? Yeah? I think we all were like, do you remember the first time you

heard about it? I think when we all first I think when we saw the images because even the images weren't so clear that it was him, because his head was turned the other way I think, or it was kind of like slumped down, so like it almost felt like it could be staged, or it could have been somebody else. And so yeah, I fully believed that Park was in Cuba. Well to your point, so many of the images related to Tupac's death were like unfinished, do

you know what I mean? Like we never got like a definitive that's Tupac he dead photo, And so I think everybody was like, I don't know, bro, there's a lot of space for negotiation at this point because we don't know. We never saw it. When nobody saw him dead. Also, everybody knew somebody ball. I went to school with a kid named b J Coleman. B J looked like a

young Poc. Like everybody knew somebody who shaved their head, who had a mustache, or who had a goatee, who like, at the right distance, in the right way, with some face gold on that's gonna turn their ears green. Hundred yards away, I am Tupac. If you get me hundred yards away, I'm Tupac. Up close, I'm you know, I'm a completely different person, but at a certain angle in

the right life, we could all be Tupac. It's a fascinating thing because I remember specifically hearing that Tupac had gotten shot and he didn't die instantly, and so I think so many of us, like the other times that he got shot, were like, he'll be all right, hence he'll bounce back, and then he supposedly didn't bounce back, and so I was like, no, I think he bounced

back because right I refused to think otherwise. And then when all the stuff came out about like the relationship we should and not paying him and buying him cars to drag him along and all that, then you're like, oh, I understand why a dude would fake his death, And right like it all started to like make sense where you're like, oh, like the cops are matter to him for this sugar won't pay him he got, you know, he feels like he had a deal with the devil

he can't get out of. Understand why this dude, You know what I'm saying, It's like, yeah, I'm gonna fake my dad and run get right, So to your point, and I think this is very fair. He had legitimate reasons to want to fake his death. This wasn't like a guy who just did it for entertainment value. He legitimately was caught up in like you know what they call like the three sixty deal and like the whole

year he's being scammed out of his money. Tupac was the most famous man alive who basically wasn't benefiting from his own celebrity exactly exactly. So, I mean, if I'm in that situation, you know, the insurance money looks good for the family, you know what I mean, sures check looks good for the family. If I'm in that situation, you know what I mean, There's only so many people you can go to for help because you are who you are. Okay, so you hear this, you believe it?

Do you start spreading it? Are you the conceiver of this conspiracy theory? Are you paid and zero in your school? Or do you go and people are like, yeah, we already knew that, Jay, we got it all figured out. My middle school was all black, and so everybody in my school knew about it. Every you know what I mean, Like it was like I got there and I was late, you know what I mean. I got there and it was like, man, where you where you being? Like, of

course he hiding in Cuba. This is in the curriculum in English class like Mr Williams was teaching about it last week before he was even dead. So what you're talking about and go to Cuba? Right, I'm just saying. There was a couple of kids even popping my head I could think of who looked at me sideways like yeah, man,

what you mean like of course he in Cuba. Like he bought a house, you know what I'm saying, Like his kids is with him, his wife is with him, and like he just kicking it, making music with you know what I'm saying, Bob Marley or somebody, you know what I mean. They just started adding on to the conspiracy.

Who else was down there with him? Well that's where to me became challenging to keep following the train is like people start it'd like suggesting all the people that knew and were a part of the conspiracy theory, and it's like you don't get to disappear and kick it, do you know what I mean? Like you don't get to keep vibing with everybody that's cool, while simultaneously fulling disappearing off of the face of the earth exactly. Nobody's being that cool where they're just like, all right, I

won't tell anybody part especially for free. Yeah, for free. Also, we can all travel to Cuba at this point, which has been completely cut off from America. But that's fine, no resources, communist ran country, Like that's what we're gonna go do. Yeah, we're just saying, okay, so you believe it, your friends at school believe it. Is there a point in your life where you stop believing in this theory? At what point do you jump off of the tupockets in Cuba train or have you jumped off? Maybe you

still bought in. No, I jumped off. I do jump off. So here's what I think would happen. I think in two thousands there was all the conspiracies that like that's when he was gonna come back, right, the Mayan calendar and two thousands, those were the two things. It was like, I don't know what you wanted to believe. And where

I'm from. Where I'm from is the Bible Belt, Like it's a church on every single corner, and so like there were churches that literally would buy billboards and put up like the Mayan prophecy and like that the world was gonna come to end in two thousand. Right, wait, hold on, wait, so these churches are super conservative churches. They would get billboards saying that the world was gonna come to like are you good with God? You know what I'm saying for your sins? Because the end is

near right coming. They're doing like they're doing like some cross branding ship. They're like, all right, well, if y'all all think the world is ending, Jesus is still the way. You gotta get good with Jesus. Otherwise that Mayan that's gonna get you. That's gonna get you. You can come over here, or you can deal with the mind, or you can deal with the mind. And they ain't even around no more, so we don't even know how to

act with them. Do your thing, you choose. So it was a combination of that and then all of a sudden, like in school, it just started floating around it like POC was gonna come back in two thousands. So here I am thinking like, oh, one of the two is gonna happen. Either the world is gonna end or technology is gonna melt everything. Dawn remember that whole thing that they thought it was all gonna go back to zeros. They thought, like, the computers weren't ready for two thousands,

why two K? And it blows my mind still that this was what why two K was. But that was the whole premise, was that our computers weren't going to be able to figure out the difference between zero zero zero zero in two thousand and so it would make rockets go off and explode the entire planet. Satellites were gonna come falling out of the sky, and cell phones were gonna be like criss crossed with like you know, uh,

government signals, you know what I'm radio. So it was like all this stuff was happening at once, and then pac was supposed to come back. So I feel like, for me, when none of it happened, I think that's when I got off the conspiracy train altogether. I think you're right. When my computer didn't shut down, I was still to get up, get on a O L. You know what I'm saying. It still about the black planet. The next day, you know what I mean. I was

still able to do that. On the next day, the world you had bought went to waste cans of green beans you had locked in the basement were unuseful. It's like, all right, well, maybe pocket isn't coming back. You brought up something that I'm sure our white listeners have no idea about, but it was a very important thing to me in my youth. Black Planet. Let's talk a little black pant. Yes, sir, were you active? Were you an active member of Black Planet? Was? I was for a

little bit. I was through college, and then I got off. I was for a little bit. I ended up going the school that I went to. If you were black in my school, you were an athletes. So there was very few of back there. Yeah, and then just in general the city. Even I was in Portland, Oregon, so even being in that city, it didn't have a huge

black population. So Black Planet was away at first. It was a way for me to kind of connect with like all my people who were either back home or friends of mine who went to you know, some of my friends went to Howard and you know, Crambling and like went to black schools and so uh hbc US, and so it was partly away for me to kind of like keep connected with them. And then after a while I just kind of fell off and then actually then Facebook kind of kicked in and I kind of

like fell off and got on the Facebook train. Yeah, because Black Planets sort of existed in that weird window between my Space and Facebook that like my Space, I guess we would say is the one that initiated it at all. But then Black Planet came around and people were like, yeah, this is cool, black people talking to black people. Collern that black girls who I don't know, like that was the whole energy. And then Facebook came around. We're like, I don't know, I'm just gonna talk to

these college kids that I actually relate to. Yeah, and you can compete. I mean, Facebook has just gotten so massive at that point. Even out Think Gate it was huge, so compete, you know what I mean. At the Gate it was big, so it was it was hard to Uh, it was hard to compete, I think. And yeah, that's fair. I think Facebook it just had the branding behind it that a lot of the black planets of the world

just couldn't match. And that's probably true about a lot of black products out of the room, Like we've been making some cool ship. But then the Mark Zuckerberg show up and they do it with all the money and we can't we can't compete. Take it, market it, flip it, sell it back to you. Alright, so you stopped believing in this Tupac thing. Since have you found yourself jumping

back on board at any point? Have there been times throughout the because Tupac's sort of much like the year two thousand, I think there's been a bunch of other markers that people have thrown out of, like well, this is the twentie year, which means he'll be that now because the you know, blah blah blah, and it's like, yeah, exactly. All the different claims of why he waited it's long have sort of popped. We've gone through all of them,

all the windows at this point. Has there ever been a point where you were like, all right, I'm back on board. I think maybe there's a possibility. I'll say this, when Poc was at Coachella as a hologram, Uh huh, I was there that year. Okay, my thought process might have been inhibited in some ways, and understand what I'm saying, and so, you know, uh, seeing the hologram made me start thinking like what if POC actually came back? Right?

So then I went down this whole thing of like, Okay, first I'm thinking, like, yo, what if Poc popped up on stage with his hologram and him and the hologram are battling? Right? Like that was my first like just like how crazy would that be? Two see Poc and it's hollogram. But then like with Poc be out of shape and the hologram is like, you know, like sold out. There's no way he's still buff. He's been forty deep in its probably yeah. And then like does real Pock

know all the lyrics still? Or is he out of breath? You know what I mean? While hologram Pocket is like just killing it like he's on he got all of it um. And then I started thinking about regretting the words that he wrote down in his kids, like yeah, I got a daughter, man, Like you know what I'm saying, I can't be up here perform and I gotta go see my kids talking about how do you want it? I got a daughter, you know what? So uh then I started thinking about like what would happen if actually

came back, Like how would we receive party? How would Pop fit in to this world? You know what I'm saying like by that time, you know, yeah, is huge. Jay Z has been doing it for fifteen years at that point, almost twenty years at that point, Eminem is coming gone. Nelly. You know what I'm saying. You have all these rappers at the time, nas whatever. You've got all these rappers at the time who were like coming gone and whatever that new crop of rappers was at

the time. Like would he be a would like be up there on stage with them and like spit with them? You know what I mean? Yeah, Like what would that be? Like? I think that's the scary part about all celebrity, if you will, is that, Like, I mean, we've heard it over and over again. It's like you either die young enough to be a hero or you live long enough

to become the villain kind of thing. I mean. The best case scenario is Park does like a snoop, right, and you just become like, you know, the type of dude who does cooking shows and like weird sort of like you vibe with Martha Stewart and you sort of like build yourself as this cutie pie in the media. Or worst case scenario, you know, he turns into whatever. The scariest version of what Tupac was back when he was you know, at his height at Yeah, exactly right.

You're just spitting on a white lady across the way. Funk. You mean I can't come to the base, stale my phone, foe, gonna make sure all your kids don't bro Wait a minute. You can't say that in the school. I can't say that in the school. There are actual children here. You can't speak that way anymore. Man. All right, we're gonna take a break and we'll be back with more j Ellis and more. My mama told me we are that, don't Yeah, we're back here with more j Ellis more.

My mama told me. We're still talking about the possibility that Tupac is still alive kicking it in Cuba. This is gonna lead us easily into the research. So were there any other locations that you felt were possibilities for a Tupac still being alive? Yeah? I heard you went to like a Polynesian Southeast Asia type island for a while, you know, something like that for a while. And then

remember when Dave Chappelle went to Africa. Yeah, I heard, Like I remember one of my homeboys was like, hey, you know Chappelle is going to see pot in Tanzania, and I was like, really, I don't feel right, Like right, what did they have to talk about? Why they don't even make sense? So they're gonna do kill him the Giro together, They're gonna go on a hike. Like although I would love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation at the same time because it would

be a lot of genius. I mean, that's the thing, is like you wanted to be real because it's like, oh, the greatest with the greatest. That'd be cool to witness. But at the same time, it's like, I don't know that Dave Chappelle and Tupac have a lot to like vibe on, Like this dude's been gone for however many years, Dave Chappelle is sort of at the height of celebrity. Maybe they talk about that for a while, but then after that they live very different lifestyle, very very different lifestyle.

All right, Well, I think all of that is useful because it it brings us into the Resa Urch and the Tupac lives in Cuba is just one facet I guess of so much of what I found. I ended up stuck in a lot of YouTube videos, uh, where it included people explaining conspiracy theories, and then it was like people who had like basically made deep fakes of songs of Tupac, like explaining exactly how he escaped from University Medical Center and made it out of the United States.

It's a mind melting journey that I think I ended up on. But one of the places, along with Cuba that sort of became popular as a place that Tupac might have ended up in was Malaysia. You remember hearing anything about Malaysia? Okay, maybe that's one of those like East Asian island rumors that I heard for a while and Bali or something like that. Well, now that's Indonesia, I guess. But so apparently Sugar Nights Sun in twenty nineteen Jacob Night, which how dare you name your son

Jacob when your name is sugar Man. I know it's not your birthday, but you gotta come up with something better than Jacob. Came up with something better than that. Pep Pep pepper, Come on now, but so uh, Sugar Knight's son, Jacob Knight claims and posted it on Instagram.

He had an ig video where he claims to have met up with Tupac in Malaysia in like this busted ass apartment where he's just basically like hanging out with him, and he has like all these videos of what it's supposed to be Tupac, and it's just this black dude much like what we talked about from a distance, with the mustache and the beard bald. He had the bandanna tied up because apparently Tupac hasn't changed his look in thirty years. But he's sitting bandana for thirty years ago?

Or did he like getting new bandannas in Malaysia. I want to believe it's the same one. I want to think it's his lucky bandanna and he's just been wearing it for thirty years. But he's sitting in an apartment and Jacob keeps going what up, Pop? How you doing? Park? What's going on? Parc? And the dude who's supposed to be a Tupac won't say anything. He just like he's staring back at the camera, unresponsive. Do we know if there's been any substance abuse issues? Uh? In the Night Family.

I have to assume, so I know I'm not judging it. I want everybody to get help. I just would like sorry if that aided in the conversation with Pop. I think what was happening was at the exact same time, Jacob Knight was dropping a documentary about his relationship with his father, who was then and currently is in jail.

Uh And I think that he was using this as potential press for the release of that documentary, because I watched a bunch of interviews where he basically went on news shows and they were like, so was it really Tupac and be like, you have to watch my documentary to find out, and it's like, shoe ass out here? Did you watch the doc I did not. I couldn't bring myself to give Jacob Night my money. It doesn't

feel like it's going to a good place. Okay, So here's my favorite of the other alternative places where Tupac is supposed to have gone. My favorite is there's actually a current film being made by a guy named Rick Boss. Have you heard of Rick Boss. He's not at all related to Rick Ross. They're not they're not cousins. It's not he's not from Miami. He's not like plus size. He is plus sized. That part because he's plus sized, and he has breathing problems much like a Rick Ross.

But his name is Rick Boss and he is making a film right now about Tupac's escape, not to Cuba, not to Malaysia, but in fact to New Mexico. He claims that Tupac is Skate University Medical Center and went of New Mexico to live amongst the Navajo tribe, so he didn't go that far. So first of all, my guess is, I mean, I don't know the Navajo tribe very well. But my guess is, much like any other culture and any other group of people, it's always a

snitch in the group, ye at least one. So my guess is somebody would have came out like, hey, bro, you know with us, we don't know you, you know, just get to fly in and like make yourself at home, Like you can't come to the picnic? What's up? R No, that's up about that don't make sense. Also, it feels like if you're gonna run, you know, he was in Vegas at the time, that's like what three hundred miles,

four hundred miles, maybe it's in New Mexico. It feels like you want to get a little bit further away, uh then New Mexico. I I totally agree. And I think the claim that Rick Boss makes is that Tupac is able to sort of find protect because of like the government laws about like treading on Navajo land, right, that in theory they are able to protect him better than anyone else within the borders of the United States.

Where I take issue with this is that white people have stolen and done things on that land that's protected for centuries. They're not tripping off of the idea of going to arrest someone on your land just because it's Navajo. They do it all the time exactly. Yeah, I agree you. But the Navajos, I will say, like, the Navajos are known to be some bad motherfucker's. They were warriors. They were warriors. Uh, they also have thug life written on

their belly. Yeah. I don't know about that. Woman. I feel like that was a little too um, it's just too close. It feel like you gotta go. Well. My favorite part of this Rick Boss movie, because it's not I want to be clear, this is not a documentary. Who is playing who? Thank you so much for asking that, because this is in fact my favorite part to POC is being played by a Mexican man named Richard Garcia. And let me when I say Mexican, I don't mean

a black Mexican. I mean a very Mexican man who vaguely looks like a Mexican Tupac is playing the role of Tupac in Brick Boss's film. What are you talking about? Is this? Okay? Let me ask you. This is this complexion the same as pox? It is not. It is closer to mind, which, uh, I assure you is not at all mistakable for Tupac in any way. I'm so confused. There's a substantial difference between my skin color and tupax in color. How did they do this? Cassie bro was like,

I don't know. Was it an open casting called? Is it Rick Boss's cousin? Like? What's going on here? This makes no sense. They have to be related somehow. But my favorite part of all of this is that when asked whether or not he personally believes in the conspiracy, Richard Garcia responded, nah, he gone, And that was like, yeah, he's like listen, Rick Boss spades me. I'm a big fan. Yeah,

he has so much to pull from. Uh. In his research on the character at least what he's been doing since ninety six, ninety seven, you know what I mean, even though he believes he's gone, I feel like I missed to see where that's gonna go. It's a fascinating journey to see this man make a feature length film that nobody is going to buy into, and even including his fucking main actor. But come on, man, like, let's

just talk about this for one quick second. Are we saying that this is an imagination, as like what would happen if Park was alive and that's where he went? Rick Boss saying that Park went to a Navajo reservation. He is saying he knows for a fact through his Connec actions to apparently he knows Snoop Doggs somehow and knows like members of Tupac's family. He says that he spoke to them and they have assured him that Tupac is in New Mexico being protected by the Navajo nation.

I don't know. I just don't. I feel like fantis Or is not gonna sign awfulness. Like something just makes me think that, like the thinker that she is, she's not gonna sign off on this. She just feels that something feels a little off. Feels like she wasn't consoled. You mean that reasonable black lady who lost her son isn't gonna like follow the dude who hires a Mexican man to play him in a film? That makes sense? Yeah? Right, So there are other theories that I think, uh, we

should unpack and really talk about. Have you ever heard of the sevenths theory in relation to Tupac? Okay, this is exciting because if you liked Rick Bosses film, you're gonna enjoy the seventh theory. The seventh theory argues that the reoccurring of the number seven in Tupac's life is proof of him being still alive. Number one, he was shot on September seven. That's the first thing that people point to. He was shot on September seven. He technically died,

although they say he died six days later. If you count the day that he was shot, which was eleven fifteen PM, and you count that as a singular day, he died on the seventh day after in his hospitalization. Then he was pronounced dead at four oh three pm. Four plus three equals seven. And finally, and this is my favorite one, Tupac's birthday is on the sixteenth one plus six equals seven, and if you add that all up, Tupac somehow is still alive. Because seven somebody should be

playing dice number one? What all he said? Seven number two? Who took the time to do all the masks to put all these sevens together? And what if you have sevens in your life and you're not pack? What does that mean? Do you somebody test the theory out? Like what does that even mean? Right? I think you're asking a very important question that I'm sure they didn't consider when they were adding all this ship up. They were like, all right, I see a lot of sevens. That means

he's alive. And it's like, yeah, but many people have a lot of sevens in their lives. What are you doing? Also, it's a stretch to get to them sevens too. Yeah, it's not like like three of them sevens were stretched right, literally, besides the first one, they're all just some ship. You're really pulling hard for people, I think, to your earlier point, were very desperate for Tupac to still be alive, and they were willing to pull and pick wherever they could

to try to make sense of this whole thing. Who came up with that? Was that somebody? I hope not, but I don't know. I want the best for us, So I'm muna say, nah, it was a white man and evil white man who came up with that. But I have no idea. I have no clue. We'll be looking for sevens all day long. Now it's ten forty seven, right, Tupacket lives. It's ten forty seven a m right now, I was born on December WHOA Your T shirt has eight six seven in the first three number's right? Talk

that talk, You know what I'm saying. So when you put it all together, it just adds to the seventh theory seven seventh theory that pocket is alive. I like what you did right there? Seven alady seven stu motherfuck Yeah. They don't know nothing about that. He's been fars you idiots. Tupacket live. Look at all these sevens everywhere. Okay. So here are some of the arguments that have supported the

suspicion at two pockets alive in Cuba. In two thousand ten, Tretch of Naughty by Nature fame Tretch, during an interview where he was asked about Tupac's death. Response by saying the last time he saw the man he was in Cuba interview. Probably I have to do so. So it's two thousand and ten. This ain't Tretch at his most successful and in popping. I don't wanna. I don't want to dig into boy's pockets. But I'm curious if the tax returns warrant an interview where you're paid to say

some crazy sure, just count sit you down. And he's like, hey man, we're gonna need some hot this year because we gotta do something. It's starting to dry up around here. These residuals, they they are not covering everything only you could earn s Okay. So the other reason, and sort of the other lead reason that Cuba is sort of picked as a place that Tupac ended up, is because the Sida Shakur, godmother of Tupac, was already located in

Cuba under political asylum. And so the suspicion is that Tupac naturally went to a place where he is both you know, has a relationship with somebody and somebody who already has found protection in you know, a country, and so he did the same. And you know, I was kicking it there with the sada. No. I mean, you know, I hope my aunt takes me in anywhere wherever if I need to go, I hope my aunt takes me in.

You know what I'm saying. She was in Cuba for different reasons, clearly, um, you know when we go back and look through the history books. But you know, I am very appreciative of her taking in her nephew, uh and looking out. Yes, I think that there's a day injurious conflation happening here and saying that Tupac's supposed that fake death is comparable to this transformative figure in history who was accused of murder that she didn't commit and

had to flee a country. Is not the same as a dude who had a weird friendship with a mean man who stole money from him. It just sain't I don't know that we want to compare the same. Yeah, okay, but I appreciate her for taking them in if that's the case, if she did do it, Yeah, it just goes to show who she is. Good lady, still a good lady. She's a good lady. Alright. So here's the now we get into I think the biggest sort of like red flag in all of the Tupac theory is

Suge Knight. Suge Knight is sort of like the the guy who makes a lot of this stuff complicated because when Tupac was killed, as you know, I assume Suge Knight was the only other person in the car with him.

He gets in the car, which Sugar Night, he in fact tells his bodyguard and his girl, Quincy Jonal's daughter tells him both to get out the car and go in a different car, separate from him and Sugar And then all fourteen shots are fired, four of which hit Tupac, two in the chest, one of the leg, one of the arm, and none hit Suge Night. One grazes his head and he claims the bullet is still in the

skull from the day that Tupac was shot. I will say, if you think about his decision, making sure something's been, something's been, you know, something a little you know what I'm saying, He's behaving like a man who's been shot in the head. You know what. Maybe the bullet somewhere, it didn't go all the way through. That's clear. You're obviously alive and well, but don't you're not as sharp as a man without a bullet. This that. Yeah, So

I'm confused. So pots told Candada and the uh, the security guard to get out of the car to get another car, or told him. Uh. The suggestion is that Tupac did that. And this is the argument at least that perhaps Tupac knew that this thing was coming and he was going to use this as his chance for escape, that this was all sort of stage as a way of keeping everyone not only safe but also for him to be able to make his grand exit from the

United States. Hold on, wait a minute, because now you're getting into something that that feels like you have a Are you about to pitch me a theory? I'm about to pitch you. I'm about to pitch you an alternate. Okay, I'm gonna give you This is a fun time because now we're introducing a fun game I like to play. It's called talk that talk. I like to give my guests thirty seconds to go down a train to fully explain whatever they got in their head. I'm gonna give

you thirty seconds. I'm gonna play some music underneath you. J Ellis talked that talk all right, here we go. So he knows it's coming, but what happens is he doesn't get out of the car in time. The hit is really meant for Sug because Sug won't give him his money right, so he doesn't get out of the car in time. He takes the hits. Shug then knows that he set it all up, so Sugar now is coming after Pot. So as soon as Pot gets out of the hospital, he goes to Navajo Nation with Rick

Voss on the seventh of October. Oh, there it is, j Ellis. Rick Voss was in it the whole time, from the day one, from day one. There is something fascinating though. If Tupac did in fact tell his security guard and his girl to get out of this car, there's a real possibility that he knew this hit was coming in maybe, by your argument, staged it to handle Shug. It didn't work, and then he had to escape because he had started to fleece because he started a war.

So now he had to flee and he called his boy Rick Boss, and Rick was like, yo, I got a spot for you. That's amazing. They're gonna take you in. You're gonna be a little lighter than what you are now. You know what I'm saying, we'll get you some bleaching cream, but you're gonna have we got You're gonna have to really, Sammy Sosa, this look a little bit, but otherwise we gotta.

You're gonna do it. You're gonna be free. You can never leave this reservation, even though you're a multi platinum Listen, if you thought being black was bad, we are taking you somewhere that's even tougher. But you'll be alive, and uh yeah, maybe you could come back. Probably know another group of people the government has shipped on even more than your certainly more effectively than they have black people. Yeah, all right, this is the last piece of important information

for us to unpack before we go to break. The last thing that I'll tell you is that, and we talked about this a little bit earlier, is that Tupac spends six days in the hospital and then he supposedly dies. Suld Knight claims that he visited Tupac in the hospital and at one point was doing fine, was like totally up and awake and uh laughing and joking, and then at some point took a dip for the worse. Now,

the day after Tupac dies, his body is cremated. They don't give any time in between the death and the cremation and the open funeral. The open casket funeral that was supposed to happen for Tupac is basically canceled and they just like cremate his body. Nobody ever sees the body. And this is one of the main arguments that people make that because we haven't seen his body, and because they made a point of keeping the body secret, that

he is still alive. All I heard in there was Sugar went to see him and he was great, was so great. That's all I heard that whole thing. He was great when he went down here. That's all I heard. I don't know nothing else, but that's what I heard in that whole theory. I love that, just snitching on himself. He was like, no, he was doing good before I showed up, and then I don't know, and then I left.

I don't know what happened to him. So this is the even scarier part to your point, is that there are suggestions that the person who did the cremation said that the body that he cremated was fifty pounds heavier and taller than Tupac, was that it basically was just a larger man than the person that he was meant to be cremating based on like the hospital records. And then that man who did the cremation never worked again.

That's what all the conspiracy theories say, that he was not only taken out of the cremation business, but that like no one ever heard from him again. So we got two people missing. It possibly three because we got a body that's been cremated and we don't know the identity, and they don't know that man. We don't know where pockets and now our cremator is gone and has disappeared as well. So we got three missing people in this case. And Rick Boss knows where they all are. He can

tell us. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, man. Something about that just don't feel right again. Something about that just seems a little wit. So we really don't know what happened to the cremation guy. According to the weird YouTube videos that I watched, No, I don't think that there's a lot of tracking of cremation guy. But I will say this, I don't know where most cremation guys are, so I don't know that that's evidence of anything like it's not like I know who cremated anybody, and I've

certainly not. I haven't been keeping cat on like those celebrity cremators. You know what I mean. It's not a spreadsheet floating now, air table, air table floating as a bus crema article? Which celebrity cremator are you that you fill out? You know what I mean? It's no, it's bullshit. All right, We're gonna take a break and then we'll be back with more ja Ellis and more. My mama told me that, Yeah, we're back here with more j

Ellis more. My mama told me. We're still talking about what happened at Tupac, the cream A Tour and the Cremate t We want to know all of this ship. These people are missing and Jazzy Faye, all of them are missing, and we want to know where everybody is. And we hope they're in New Mexico doing fine, learning about the Navajo Nation, everything they've got going on. Jazz Faye and Rick Boss is doing an album together, Jesse Fay. I'd love that. Oh man, if Jazz and link up

and do a lap, that'd be beautiful. Jazz fa gonna do the score for the movie. Oh if jazz face is on the score and it's just my goodies playing underneath like the murder. I love that so much. All Right, we're gonna play a game. This is a fun game that I like to call white lies ugly. You're disgusting.

I'm gonna kill you. Give me two white lies. This is a fun game where I am going to introduce to you a traditional white conspiracy theory, one that is widely supported in the white community, and I would like for you to take the time to unpack why you think this conspiracy theory is so important to white people. What are those sneaky motherfucker's up to? You? Got it?

Hell yeah? Okay, So apparently white people for years have been arguing that LSD, the drug l s D was invented by the government specifically as some version of mind control or some version of manipulation of the population, and it was tested on soldiers. That's the argument that it

was tested on soldiers. And one of the bigger conspiracies that comes out of that is that John Lennon of the Beatles is murdered because of his knowledge about where l s D came from, and he started talking too much like he started being too hot on the microphones about l s D and so they get a guide

it to take him out. Why do you think, j ellis that white people believe in this conspiracy about l s D because they don't want to believe that government is corrupted and actually created the entire drug problem, that actually drugs came from the government and have been widely supported and financed by the government. Uh, that's the only thing I can think of, man, because you know, you

don't want to believe your stars and bars is the problem. Yeah, this is them just fully like being made awake for the first time to like they're like seeing something that that otherwise has been pretty blatantly clear in and in heroin, in coke and we whatever it is, it's been blatant and everything else. But LD is where they woke up, right. I like that for some reason, Maybe it's like after they took a hit, you know what I'm saying, after they took a tab, they had a moment where they

just all they saw it. All the pieces kind of just came together for them in this beautiful like you know, it's like it's like a van Go painting, like a like a starry night or something. You know what I'm saying. All the colors just started bleeding together and they were like Uncle Sam gave me that. I of that, that this is the first time where like it just felt beautiful that like, oh ship, oh this is the government. Oh this isn't that different between crack cocaine and everything

else that they do in different communities. Okay, But but I do love the idea too that it's like there's some mind control element to it, because I feel like that's also a huge part of it. Is like if it was just a drug that like the government had put out in the world, I don't think they would support it. But I think the mind control piece of it, you know what I'm saying, the tea party love at you know what I'm saying, Yeah, it feels like the

government is trying to take your rights from you. You know what I'm saying, Big brother is watching you that. You know what I'm saying. I feel like that's a

whole well, that's that's yeah. I think you're getting into something that's really important with white people is that they, like all people don't like being controlled, but they especially have not been controlled, at least in terms of like the traditional ways that we look at control in in the world and politics, and so even the premise of somebody coming in and taking advantage of them or controlling their choices feels like a criminal conspiracy theory that they

need to unpack when in fact, you probably were just getting high with your friends and uh, losing control of your own body. And if there wasn't so high, they'd probably grabbed their guns and go storm a capital like like they did in Michigan and everywhere. Right, you know what I'm saying, But they would trip into the figure. Honestly, these drugs have been huge for race relations, and if in fact the government did invent them, I hope they

keep inventing more drugs. I hope you can invent all the mind controlled drugs that keep white people more, you know, as timid as they need to be to keep us from being attacked and murdered for their pleasure. Well, I think we did it. I think we nailed it. I think that that was perfect. J Elis, can you tell everybody where they can find you? Cool ship you have going on? Oh yo, man, socialists, you can find me at j R L S J A y R E Uh Uh cool shit. Uh nah no, Uh Insecure on HBO,

Top Gun next summer, Mrs America on FX Hulu. Uh the Untold Story Policing, Uh wherever you podcast. That's a lot of cool ship. He's a cool dude. One more time for my guest j Ellis Hell Yeah, I got you hilarious and as always follow us, uh you know, like and subscribe and do whatever weird ship you do to the podcast. I'm really enjoying reading all of the comments. I hate myself enough to read everything that people write,

and I'm having a ball. I truly am. Some of them are terribly mean and I can't get enough of them. So please keep commenting, liking, and subscribing and uh oh and if you have anything that you would like to send me trops, artwork, recordings, whatever it may be, please send them to my Mama pod at gmail dot com. Send anything and everything there. I would love to see it by because of my crown chips in your hands. A Quala Bears are racist, the most player mostly money,

verny turny stuff. I can't tell me