Timbs for My Hooligans in Broo-Klan (with Nate Marshall)

You can't tell me. Yeah, there it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another spectacular episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where we dive deep, deep into the world of black conspiracy theories and we finally work to prove that a Marie Stoudemeyer is the only person who can truly bring it into the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The man is going to fix everything for us. That giant Jew, that giant black Jew, is going to solve the problem. Fuck Jared Kushner. I don't put my faith

in Jared Kushner. Jared Kushner kent't. Jared Kushner can't dunk on a nigga, a Marie Stoudemeyer. Now that's the motherfucker that can dunk on on racism, on oppression, on the things that separate us as people. I am your host, Lanks and Kerman, as always, I'm I'm happy to be here. I'm excited. My guests today, Oh man, I guess today is somebody I've known since I was a young person, a high schooler, and we grew up doing poetry together. We competed in poetry in Chicago. And now he's going

on to become a very successful poet. And I am an idiot who claims that a Mari Stademeyer is gonna solve big issues out in the world. He's he's hilarious, he's smart, he's brilliant. You know his work. He wrote a book called Wild Hundreds. That's amazing. He's got a new book this year called Finna. He's amazing. You're gonna love him. Giving up for my guests, Nate Marshall, everybody, Oh what's up? What's up? I feel like I feel

like you ran out of funny niggas. So I'm very happy to know I did not run out of funny niggas. But I did feel like, all right, I've been talking to a lot of funny people, but most of them are idiots. It would be nice to talk to somebody who maybe has some perspective out in the world. And also it was very funny. Oh dear God, this is this could be rough every day. You're an author, man, you got you. You gotta know something more than I do. You've certainly read your own book, which is more books

than I've read total. This is a lot, yo, y'all don't notice this motherfucker has a master's in poetry. Yeah, and you know that that's the scam as well as I do. But we're all celebrating. I'm very excited that you're here. You came with a conspiracy theory that is one that I feel like I had heard as a kid, but had not put any real thought into. I think in part because I think I just didn't want it

to be true. But you said, and I want to make sure that I get this right, because some of it is a wording that I put on it more than the wording that you gave me. But you said, my mama to old me. Timberland is owned and operated by the KKK. Yeah, man, the clan owns Timberland. Facts take it to the bank. Yeah, the clan owns Timberland and they're using the logo as an emblem of hanging people from trees. That's it. Stay woke, stay woke, Tell

me more, get dig me into this. Okay. So first of all, I think as a kid, I wanted this to be true because I didn't have no motherfucking money and I couldn't actually have and you know, so like I was woke before that was the word for it. Yeah, Like I remember being in like kindergarten and being like, I'm not wearing Nikes because I heard they have sweatshops and ship right now, Like all of our stuff more

or less is like made in sweatshops. Yeah, it's a different kind of sweatshot perhaps, but it's all being made by somebody who is not being paid the right amount for the work that they're doing. Absolutely, and so so you know, so like that was me, right, I was like I'm not wearing Nikes, which was which I don't even know why what made me say that, because like we shopped that pay less, so it wasn't like we're

really on the menu to begin with. But I heard this about Tim's and I was like, cool, Yeah, I can cross off another thing I can't afford on the list. You're like, good, I'll stick with these wolverine boots. I don't need. These are perfect for me. These not racist wolverine. Yeah, these lugs, Birdman, You've never heard anybody thank you for your lugs that you gave me. Right, that's why Little Wayne kissed him. Yeah, right, bird Man only gives out kisses. He's not a part of the KKK. Okay, me ask

you this, where did you first hear it? Do you remember the place or the person that first offered this theory to you? You know, I don't. I don't exactly, but I want to say, even if this wasn't the place, this is like the energy that it had. I love that.

My barber when I was a kid, who like I remember, he like gave me a Zen Buddhism book that I maybe still have somewhere, and he was like, you're probably not gonna understand this, but here you he was like, this is to what he would just like say incendiary things, like one time people almost got into a fight with him because he like stepped in the middle of the barbershop and was like, yo, fuck god, whoa. He was like that dude, right, that's big you know black, That's

what I'm saying. He was. He was that guy. And I remember like there was a point when, like right around when I hit puberty, when I transitioned, I had had another barber or a year, and I transitioned to him being like my main guy, and he was always like dropping gems and so it was after it was after he said funk guy that you were like, I gotta be with this dude more often. He's killing it. I like what he's saying. Absolutely, Hey, look I don't know. I like he was. He was just committed to chaos

and I appreciated that. I want to hear more about it. So why what was the motivation were you there? And like was there a clear like line of thinking or was it just like y'all, nigga's in here looking like you praying in your heads and I want to sunk that up. And no, it's just like Saturday day, like barbershop banter, like sole train has gone off, and now like niggas was bored, so you gotta just start a pot. Yeah,

I get that. You do need a catalyst. You need a person who's willing to to start the mess of it all, and like, good for him for being willing to be that person. And I agree. I think I think this Timberland Secret KKK connection has that barber shop energy where it's just like, yeah, of course you're gonna you're gonna start doing math that ain't math. You're gonna make connections that aren't really connections, right or are they?

Or are they? Thank you for saying that. Honestly, that's how they get you, because here I am sitting here pretending to have already proven and concluded that they are not connected and when in fact, they very well could be. Look all I'm saying, is is it that crazy to believe that, like evil, white people own a thing, even white people own most things. Arguably, this is you know,

that's just that's just how I live my life. I realized that I was talking to my homie the other day and I realized, like I have, like the one maxim that has never proven me wrong in life is that white folks is crazy. Yes, Okay, I listen, I hear that that feels true And to to the larger or really more specific point in what you're saying is that at the end of almost every form of ownership is a crazy white person. So whether or not I can directly say this is the clue klux Klan is

a different conversation. But if it I just I don't know, it's it's a crazy white person definitely that owns Timberland. Yeah, that's it, easy, easy, Like I I I believe that with my whole heart. Sure, I believe that like little children believe in Santa Claus. This is this is my nigga Christmas. I love that. Let me ask you this, are you, in any way an owner of a pair of Timberland's? Now do you have Tim's? Have you had Tims? Since this? Absolutely? They're a great shoe there, I kind

of look they look so cool man. You See when I went to college, I went to college on like a bunch of scholarships, and so I was getting fun checks and it was the most money I've ever seen in my life. And the first thing I did was go I bought Tims. I bought these pumas with the Chicago skyline on them, and like a bunch of like Levi's that just because it was just like, yeah, go crazy, that's that's totally fair. And I love that the your first you spend your whole childhood being like this thing

is racist. There's racist and city of ship happening here, and you're like, I got to get me some of them racist shoes, the racist shoes. They're just built better than these regular, old, respectful shoes, shoes that are filled with love and decency. Don't nobody wants civil rights boots. No, that's fair. That's fair, and I think we don't talk about that enough. Martin Luther King didn't want the shoes

he had. He wanted a better shoe. It was the unfair quality of America that kept him from getting that better shoe, and that's what he was fighting for. That's true. That's why they were marching. They were they were trying. At the point they were like, you see talking, they these shoes are talking, and they're becoming worse and worse because you're making me march miles and miles from my own freedom for the opportunity to buy better shoes. We

need some like cobblers in the system, Yes, exactly. Okay, so you you eventually find your way over to owning a pair of tempts to owning a better boot, as you put it. And I'm curious to know how much of that you still believe to this day, Like how much of of the thims KKK relationship Because we're acknowledging white people are are sort of at the top of all of this ownership chain, but how much of it are you, Like I'm saying KKK, y'all are still tied up. I must say. You want me to give it like

a percentage, I'm I'm cool with that. Yeah, I'm gonna say like, I'm tapped in. I don't know. Look, yeah, I'm tapped in. I'm connect Okay, that's a lot. That's a there's very little doubt in your mind. What's the two person? Where's what's that coming from? Uh? Maybe jay Z has bought it by now, I don't know sure that may be somewhere along the line, a person who is invested in capitalism bought it more than invested in oppression,

or at least oppression in the first hand sense. No, no, just just specifically the knowles Carter's specifically that specifically jay Z bought this and now he owns it, and you can judge jay Z as it worked. But that's it. That's it. I love it. Okay, So potentially jay Z owned some part of Timberland and that makes it less of the KKK thing. Does the fact that Timberland and the KKK have this deep connection bother you? Are you un nerved by this truth that you believe m doesn't

bother me? I mean no, I don't. You know, I don't know why. I feel like if we could get all the races committed to making like pretty high quality consumer goods, yeah, and I'm like cool with that, Like yeah, like I don't know, I just we need to give racist a trade. Sure, now you're talking now, I like where you're going. Like I had a guy once coming like like do my like fix my roof or whatever.

And I'm pretty sure you probably probably voted for Trump, but like my roof this was good after that, Like you know what I'm saying. I think I think you're saying something really important here that ultimately racists are going

to exist. It's a fact out in the world, like we we can't do anything about it, and we're currently you know, recording this in the wake of of an election, right, but without the decision on the other end of it, and what the election has taught us from the numbers that are coming in is racists are still thriving and alive and feeling excited to go out and vote and do all the things that activate them. And to your point, let's give him a job to do, don't. Don't just

eliminate them from society. Make the motherfucker's put boots together. That's what I'm saying. I want like fewer racist policymakers and more racist like woodworkers. Hell yeah, I funk with that. That's brilliant. I don't want any racist deciding where my money is being a lot did, but I would love for racists to have to like work for tips on the things that I'm doing, you service work, just doing the ship that I don't want to do or know how to do because my hands are stupid and built

for podcasts. Right, I just I want to I want a racist just taking my order Chipotle. Hell yeah, give me some case on Nick, you're not allowed to put the meal together. I don't want you spitting in my ship, you racist motherfucker. But you can take the order and have to talk politely to me afterwards so that I tip if you seem like a decent racist. I tip you, I'm not unreasonable. Yolo. Yeah, that's what Drake said. That's

how Drake's gonna start. That's what Drake meant by Yolo was get racist people in the service industry, Drake, And that's really what this podcast is all about. Drake has been doing the real work this whole time, and uh, he needs he deserves more credit for it. Honestly, are we How do we feel about Drake? I don't know. No, let's go into it. Thank you for asking. I think that Drake is a toxic, toxic man who makes phenomenal music,

just unbelievably fun music for everybody to enjoy. And we are constantly conflating his toxicity with his fun music and I don't know if that's fair, But on the same at the same time, we have to do it with all these other artists who eventually are going to be revealed to be evil and awful, So maybe we should

do it early with Drake. That's I wish Drake like did some ship where he wasn't the star, but like if he wrote like Broadway musicals or like music or some ship where I could just be like, oh, this is catchy, and I didn't have to be confronted with like him as a figure. I feel much much better about it. Sure, I would love the Broadway musical. Drake writes of a dude who, like us, playing mind games with a woman for way too long while he cheats. Like, yeah,

that perfect Drake musical. Just him pretending to be sad while he texts other girls in the background. Right, it's just like him being engaged for eight years? Yeah, right, just Draking. Your your auntie's friend who comes to every holiday and just looks at him Southway. Nobody in the family likes them, but nobody can quite get rid of him. The Drake story. Yeah, I love that. Okay, let's let's

gear this back to Tims. Do you think that because Tim's became really popular largely because of hip hop and black culture and like a lot of the sort of like artists that popularize them, that made them cool and sexy and ship, do you think that they were aware of your conspiracy c theory that the KKK was somehow involved in the production of Tims. I think hmm. Do

I think they were aware? Like, do you think nas is rapping about Tims and fully aware that like the KKK did some ship I think some of them, but I don't know if the word got around right, Like I think this might be like why for example, like I can't remember was all a Wu Tang or just like ghost Face, but he basically only wears Wallabies. I

think that's not just a style choice. It's like it's like I'm gonna keep these anti racist shoes on, like I can't even which is so interesting, especially because I feel like New York dudes, are you know everybody in New York has like you like go there and you just get two pairs of TEMs. It's just like what happens, right, So Wu Tang they had the knowledge. I love the idea that ghost Face has just been a responsible consumer this whole time, and like, yeah, he's a dude that

got rich selling crack. But also I'm not I'm not gonna support the KKK. What are you talking about? Like, that's that's the real five percent. It's it's like the five percent of the population that knows KKK everyone else. Sure, that's what that whole religion is all about, is uh? The people who are woken enough to know what the

KKK did with the teams. I love that. I do think one of the things that sort of is coming out of this entire election period, this Trump Experience, as you will, is hip hop's willingness to invest in quote unquote white supremacy or certainly like anti blackness. Um. And what we're seeing is a lot of them are real down for it, like they don't give a funk enough to not buy in. So like mm hmm, yeah, I believe, I believe a few of them new and we're like,

fuck it, Yeah, that's real, that's real. I mean, well, first off, I just have to name that. You said Trump Experience, which sounds like Disney quest for racist uh, and that's fantastic. I would, I honestly would make that. Yeah. And the Trump Experience it's just a ride. It's just yeah, like right, like there's just arcade games that don't work, and then when they don't work, they go, it's your fault. You're dumb, poor bitch, you should have had more money

than it'll work. The Trump Experience, the Trump Experience, baby Yeah. I think I think we're seeing so many hip hop artists connect themselves with ultimately like super sort of like a conservative theory, right, that like, I want to keep my money. I want to be protected. You know, I earned it, I want to keep it kind of energy and so like that's not that far from being like I like the shoes, I want to wear them. I

don't care who made them. Yeah, but I think that's kind of like always been I mean, this is like one of the hip hop is there's a lot of things that hip hop's very complicated cultural space, but that strain has always been there, right, Like we've always sort of celebrated you know how many references to Donald Trump or Warren Buffett or being black, Bill Gates or whatever are there in the music over the last you know,

many decades. Right, that's like, yeah, that's absolutely a thing, And I get why, or I get how, like somebody liked Trump his kind of he's kind of like I don't give a shit about what people if people think I'm rude or like how I talk to people, Like of course that's that's of like, of of course that would be attractive to someone like ice Cube, who's like, look, there's women like yeah, it's it's I think to your point, their language isn't that different. It's just the way that

they choose to express themselves is the difference. And people were presuming for the longest that black ment liberal or black mint hip hop ment like being on the side of sort of like the oppressed. Then it doesn't. It just means a nigga rapping, and sometimes niggas rap about mean awful things and they kind of mean it when

they do. Yeah, this is another thing too that we got to think about with like all these especially like the sort of nineties and two thousands all stars that Trump like trotted out for his goofy as is like all these dudes have been have had money way longer than they didn't have money, Yes, yes, And and to that point, they have connected and built relationships that are so far from the money that they didn't have at this point that not having money is an unfamiliar idea

that like, you literally don't know any broke people, and you ain't been broken so long. What the funk do I have to talk about with y'all? Right? And and like particularly I'm thinking of those two dudes right, like they're some of the rare kinds of rappers who actually have made enough money in their careers to conceivably like pull everyone else around them, who who they care about, like their families or whatever, into that same space, right, So it's not even necessarily like they go back go

back to their hood. Like you know, I'm a college professor. I'm not rich, but I do. Okay, I'm fine. I like own a house, but like, if I want to go visit my family, they're still in the same motherfucking place I left them. Because you can't fix that, yeah, right, you can't do anything for them. And and I think that's exactly right. And I think the even scarier part, if we're really following that chain of fixing things or separating yourself, they also are two examples of people who

went on to get a white institution's higher education. Right. So, like in hip hop, a bunch of rappers pretend not to be smarter than they are, but these two dudes actually like winning, got fucking like master's degrees and like bachelor's degrees and that whole thing. And I think part of that is them beginning to separate themselves from their poverty. It's them like moving away from all the things that connected them from brokenness. And they ain't going back, no

matter who's in charge of it. No sure, and and I don't like, I don't fault someone for not wanting to to be broke or not wanting to struggle like that. That's a human experience. That's a that's a very human But then some cones, I don't know, I don't that's not even a joke. I don't even have anything this second about it's some coon shit. I look, I love it. I think there's no better way to throw doing commercial break. We're gonna take a break. We'll be back with more

Nate Marshall and more, my mama told me. And we are back. You got what I need. Yeah, we're back here with more name Marshall more. And my mama told me. We're still talking about the insidious underbelly of the Timberland production and potentially the coons that supported the coons that love it, just love coon ship. Listen, Who amongst the sunsn't love coon ship once in our life? And I think that's a fair our point. Who amongst us hasn't been like damn, I don't know. I kind of funk

with that. And then you have to wrestle with all of us love Terry Crews. That's we love Terry, you know, what I mean, that's the part that we're like pretending. It's like we fucking Terry was in Kendrick videos, Terry was in Friday after Next. We loved Terry, and then Terry did some coon ship and some of us tried to negotiate with it and be like, I don't know, he's okay, and then we found out like a damn

we gotta jump off the Terry train. Remember when he made that fucking I wish I could remember what it was. He made that, Like it was like an acrostic poem on on Twitter day. Remember that of the word coon or it was right, that's right, I do remember that. Now. It was like jigaboo but written down and he had like written all the different Uh. It was like jigaboo just means just in tune with show goofy ass out

of here, Terry unfortunately, best best all. My next My next book is strictly gonna be racist across sticks and be like Moon Cricket, making our own nation, creating and cool, cutting edge cutting with a k cutting edge technology that no, I I do think that to your point, there is a fair amount of stuff that like retroactively gets labeled as like coon shit or like unacceptable things for the

quote unquote black community. And sometimes this ship was cool and then we realized later that it has a product problematic nature to it. Absolutely absolute. My mom has a her favorite book growing up was a Little Black Sambo. She didn't know. She was just like, the book has a little black boy and it's cold. Yeah, I like it. It makes me feel seen and unfortunately I shouldn't be seen this way, but I didn't know that. I was a kid. But literal coon ship. Yeah, let's talk Tims.

Let's let's talk Tims. Okay, here's one of the things that I discovered in my research about the this Timberland controversy is that Timberland claims to have zero connection to the KKK, right, absolutely zero connection to the KKK. And it was in fact founded by a dude, uh named Nathan Nathan Schwartz in nineteen fifty two. And you guessed it. He's a Jewish guy. And so his whole point is, uh, what connection would I possibly gain in or would be

the reasoning and me connecting with the KKK? He said, It's a completely absurd suggestion and there's no validity to it. Okay, now here's where it gets exciting. The reality is that that conspiracy theory actually came from a poem. It's it's a miracle if you will that you came to us with this, because you are a fantastic poet. But the conspiracy itself came from a poem that was being spread around in March of all over the internet, and it

was being attributed to Maya Angelou. There's a poem that was going around that Maya Angelou apparently wrote that actually, uh makes all kinds of suggestions about like the various like communities that are connected. Like it's part of where that Tommy Hill figure calling you nigger came from. That Like that thing that everybody said was an Preah episode was actually from this poem. And there's like things where

they it gets real problematic. At one point they go, you come up in the world wearing versace clothes made by a homosexual male. So even when you say you are straight, it is very hard to tell. It's a wild piece of writing, right, But when we get to the Timberland section of it all, it goes, uh, let me make sure and for footwear you wear Timberland's even under the sun that same tree that's the symbol for them could have been the same one your ancestors were

hung from. Wow. And then it's as many people reclaim your status in this world and in your life. Fubou in case you didn't know, stands for for us by us buying black will someday suffice. Do you know who owns Timberland fashion? Well, Timberland is owned by the president of the KKK. Surprise, don't be read more books. Black people always hope for the best and prepare for the worst. You may not get what you pay for, but you'll

surely pay for what you get. I like that because earlier it had like the rhyme scheme, and then it was like funk that. Yeah, I got knowledge to drop this ship too important. I can't be rhyming on its naked the all day. I gotta talk that talk. Wow, that's wait? Was this? This is absolutely not a mind? No know? How dare you sir? How dare you? How should hang up this zoom call? Right now? Is this? I know it's not. But the world in which this

is my andrelu poem is it's a world? Yeah. I would love for Maya Angeloud to be like just writing about Timberland and being super homophobic, like what if, what if that was just like the poem she did at like the Clinton inauguration. She was just like, if that could be the same truth she did that in the middle of poetic justice. I love that. It's so Maya Angelou did not write this poem, and in fact, her representatives when this poem began to circulate as a quote

unquote Maya Angelou poem, uh immediately jumped on it. And their response is so funny because they basically said, look, that's clearly not a my Angelou poem, and we are offended that you would think writing this terrible would come from my Angelo. They weren't even offended by the ideas. They're like, this is a bad piece of writing, and my girl writes good. This is trash. They were like, this ship has no bars. Yeah, well I love that. Damn. I hope to one day like get there where people

are just like putting my name on ship. I did not say that's pretty cool. That's like, that's a different level. That's like Maya like fucking Mark Twain and Shakespeare. Yeah, And so part of the reason that I think that it begans circulating that way is because in the year when it's sort of is becoming a thing, right, this poem that's being posted all over the internet, there aren't

real ways of tracing things. And it's a poem about like black life and black struggle in America, And the name most synonymous with black poetry at that time is my Angelou. That's that's who you would go to for this information. So it became almost like a weird game

of telephone, if you will. Right, Yeah, I know why the cage bird sings because you know, wearing like Berberry, like what incredible wild So the so this happens and then it starts to kind of uh snowball, right that after we start seeing this poem circulating on the internet. Then there's this quote that gets attributed to the CEO

of Timberland. And at this point they're not naming the CEO, but they're on this site called NAHA Daily Report a posted that basically quote saying Timberland's new appointed CEO lost it at its at a earnings press conference and revealed that he'd rather not see blacks and Latinos in his boots during the summertime, admitting that it's just tacky to wear boots in the summer, their work boots. But let's be honest, they don't like work is what he was supposed to have upset. Wow, Oh my god, I wish

this was all very true. Well I want this Netflix documentary. Goddamn it. Wow. So many New York motherfucker's I know would just be deeply hurt and offended by by such a statement because all they do is wear boots the right. Not only are you telling me I don't work, but also you're discrediting my entire fashion, my entire sense of self when you say ship like that. So it gets it gets even more fascinating because it's site Naha, Daily Report Apparently it's no longer a website, or at least

not a very high functioning one. But not how Daily Report was was a predecessor to the onion that it was meant to be like a ironic website where they make jokes and ship. But as you can clearly see, that's not a good fucking joke. That's just a fake thing you put on the internet and like cause chaos and dissension amongst the community. Damn. Wow again, huh but is this is this a joke or is this like

the joke that's true. M because I'm talking, I'm just saying this doesn't still doesn't seem un untrue to me. I don't know, Like, yes, yes, okay, the founder was Jewish, that's true. But presumably right this founder he had business partners, he had other people in the business. They probably weren't you know, many black folks, if any any in Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, Asian folks. It was a bunch of white people, and so it just chances are there was

somebody in there who was clanning it up. Okay, I'm glad you're saying this, because up to this point we've at least I thought we were working to uh discredit some of this theory. But you're like, nah, funk that. I'm still not sold. They're not sold. Double down, my friend, because in right, hip hop has started to take over their investing big in Timberland, and Timberland is sort of becoming a brand of the urban youth. But the Timberland

executives are not necessarily bought into that yet. Right. So, in in a New York Times interview, the then VP Jeff Swartz, which is the grandson of the original Swartz, Nathan Swartz, who was in charge of this ship, actually said in an interview, Timberland is being adopted by a consumer that we didn't know existed relative to our target audience, which he described as honest, hardworking people. So basically he said, like, these niggas grabbing it and we ain't really planned for them.

And also they're not honest or hardworking the way that we were aiming. This is some mother ship that ain't honest and hardworking, and we don't know what to do with that. Listen, listen, y'all, stay woke. Sounds sounds clan adjacent. And that's from the New York Times. That's not even no,

that's a real article from the New York Times. And and he goes on to basically explain that, like, it just wasn't the demographic that they were aiming for, right, that when they created Timberland, it was meant to be a work boot for working people and the working people that he was imagining. And he doesn't quite say this,

but it's all implied in the undertext. Is is white working class people and white working class once again, Yeah, exactly, And he's completely ignoring the fact that many of the black people that are wearing tims are working class people too, who just happened to spend their money differently. Absolutely, this is what I'm saying, Martin Luther King that niggas was

marching two shoes. I don't think you're wrong. And it's so he catches a lot of flak for that, right, Like, people get pretty upset at the idea of this guy basically saying like I, in essence, I don't want niggas wearing my boots, or at least that wasn't the plan. And so Timberland then has to do a lot of fixing and re evaluating in terms of their relationship with

the black community. And it's not until like the late nineties that Timberland starts to really like invest in black advertisement, that they start to really like put the TAMS ads in the Vibe magazines and start to reassociate themselves with the hip hop artists intentionally and not just like on accident with Nas rapping about it or Biggie rapping about it. Listen, I'm telling you, man, ghost Face Killer is the fucking

civil rights leader of our time. No one's gonna convince me otherwise, nobody convinced me foot ghost face foot ghost face on the monument because that he's it. That's all we need is I want one of them, one of them, like posters that you buy on the side of the road where someone's also something shade butter and black soap. We're like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X like playing pool with Obama and I want ghost Face. They're like shooting dice in the corner. Yeah, I love that. I

want one of those Tyrese paintings. Tyrese made that beautiful painting where it was wait wait wait wait, wait wait wait about this nigga. No, okay, well we'll wake up. Brother. There's other artists out here other than Picasso. There's other artists out here. Then then then your Bosskiyats a brother named Tyrese Gibson of Fast and Furious fame, made a beautiful painting in which Malcolm X is baptizing Tupac in a river. As I believe Martin Luther King looks on,

I've seen Tyrese made that. That's a Tyrese Gibson original. Put that up in your home. Oh my god, you should be so lucky to get the original of that Wow Baby Boy. Yeah, No, he did that, and he's continuing to do the work, and we don't give him enough credit. It should be ghost Face and Tyrese Gibson as the the greatest civil rights leaders we have and Shannon Sharp. For some reason, I think Shannon Sharp does a lot of does a lot of good work for

the black community. Uh, he's just mush mouth, so we can never tell what he's saying. I love Shannon Sharp. The excellent memes. There's some excellent meme work, great names, the bug eyed sweaty Man. I love that he deserves he works, he works hard. Okay, So this is where I think it gets even more interesting. So the quote that we were talking about goes on in the conversation.

He went on to say, if you hear that hip hop kids are wearing Timberland boots and women are wearing Timberland boots with sun dresses at a Donna Karen fashion show, that's a coin in current dollars. But how in the world is that sustainable? So he's basically asking the question how long is hip hop gonna last? And so in retrospect, he now knows hip hop is going to become the biggest industry in all of music and like the most profitable of all of like the music forms, and so

Timberland then has to realize that and fix that. And so in the late nineties is when they start introducing all the TEMs with like the custom colors and like the weird designs and ship. And it's because they started fully being aware that, like, oh, ship, hip hop is not going anywhere, and we can't just keep servicing a bunch of dudes who are only gonna buy work boots every five years, right, I mean that's the thing is, like if you're like fashionable, you'll you'll buy a new

shoe every season or more. But yeah, if you're like actually using temps to like go to work, right, you buy them ship and then you don't buy something until the next decade. Yeah, I'm not gonna keep buying more every but like dude who's really into thims and wants to look fly by a new pair every month, and like that's that's real money that you could be gaining. And so they I think they figured out that, like this is the brand we need to invest in and

stop playing like this is a hard working man's boot. Yeah, you know. Unfortunately, maybe the most expensive show I ever bought in my life was like a Timberland streetwear mashup short, one of them supreme type energies of life. They were like very high and they had this like they were like Grace Swaye. Yeah, felt like walking on babysuits. But damn, wow, that's you really you really like actually researched. Yeah, I

take my time with it. Here's here. So Timberland, after this, uh, this debacle, if you will, this issue with offending the black community or offending the hip hop community, then sort of like tries to rebrand itself as like a cool brand that deals in in respectable politics and doesn't you know, looks out for the community even though they're a billion dollar industry and probably do horrible things and and whatever.

But in two thousand and ten, Timberland once again gets in trouble, not with the black community this time, but Greenpeace comes after them because they claimed that Timberland has a bunch of connections with deforestation in Brazil, that like, they are responsible for farmers who are cutting down massive amounts of the rainforests so that they can basically set up cattle farms and then sell Timberland back the cow hide.

Damn you know what I'm gonna quick. Okay, hold on, you're about to talk that talk because I'll let you talk that talk. Yes, let me talk that Okay, Nate, it is beautiful. I'm excited. I'm gonna give you thirty seconds whenever you're ready talk that talk. All right. So you said that Timberland is responsible for deforestation in Brazil. Word, that makes sense to me. We know what else was in Brazil. The majority of the slaves in the Transatlantic

slave trade. Listen, right, Brazil black is Bresils, some nigga ship. They don't want you to know that, right, but you gotta stay woken. And this is the thing about it. They deforced. And what are they doing with trees hanging niggas ship? Cool? Motherfucking talk that talk, Nate. Okay, I see what you're doing. It's connecting, it's starting. The math is starting the math. We're talking about deforestation. The trees is still the emphasis. It is a homage to the

history that they've built of hanging niggas from trees. And they go to the most niggery place they can find mine, which is Brazil in this scenario. Listen, ain't look, there's no no more niggery place in the Western hemisphere. That might be true. Honestly, I listen that. Look, I don't have the mask, but I think that might actually be true. It's between that and in the South side of Chicago

is one of those. It's one. It's one of Look you ever seen capa niggas are doing martial arts and dancing that that that is the most nigger ship because niggas loved Bruce Lee movies and motherfucking funk records. Right, everybody's fighting like the Black Power Rangers. So yeah, that makes sense to me. That makes perfect sense to me.

Now it is worth noting and uh your talk. That talk was exceptional, but it is worth noting that Timberland actually said that only seven percent of their cattle comes from Brazil, and then immediately after it was like, we'll stop, We'll just stop that. Y'all don't have to claim that we did that anymore. And they have also like gone

out of their way to be anti racist. When like a French fashion label, a pc UH, their CEO came out in the middle of a big conference and basically like went on stage and said, uh, I want to make sure I have this right. He says, uh, I call this one. Look last Niggas in Paris. This is a white man. Why because it's the sweet spot when the Hood, the Hood meets berta Locheese movie Last Tango in Paris. So that's last Niggas in Paris and last

Niggas in Paris. After an awkward pause, and then he goes, oh, I'm glad some people laughed at me. Yes, I mean, it's nice to play with the strong signifiers. The Timberland here is a very strong ghetto signifier. In the ghetto. It is all the Timberland's all the big chain, not all the same time. Never, it's bad taste. So we

designed Timberland's the Timberland. It's bad bad. I love that because now I'm just imagining like a thug that bigging like imagine like two chains, like like like putting on his his chains and like about to like put like the third chain on. It's bad, that's bad taste. Put that ship back. I got on my tempts and three chains. Get the funk out of here. Not unreasonable, that's bad taste.

So Timberland Timberland. Here's this guy go on this weird fucking French rant and uh then they like, hey, we can't work with you anymore, and they were celebrated as heroes for cutting that relationship. Damn ghetto signifier is the name of my next rapout? Now, Well, honestly, I love like, I know that was a racist like little thing that he just said, and I I agree, but wow, it was just so good. Yeah. No, he was spitting, and

uh I didn't like what he was spitting. But bars is bars you know what I mean, Like, you gotta talk that talk. Yeah, let him shine, let him finish your sentence, then you deal with the emotional uh feelings afterwards. But no, funk that let him go off? I think, Damn, is this this is how like Takashi six nine fans must feel. Yes, it's just them being like, I don't know, bro, he going off. I don't agree with it, but go crazy. Yeah, ship, Look the world Look, life is yolo, yolo. Thank you Drizzy.

We're gonna take my more break and we'll be back with more name Marshall and more. My mama told me, And we are back. If you want to reach those kids on the Street. Then you gotta do a rep, do a hip hop beat urban kick. My rhymes are flying, are just sick. My crew is big and it keeps getting bigger because Jesus Christ. Yeah, we're back here with more Nate Marshall. We're celebrating Jesus Christ. I nigga Jesus Christ and all he does for us. Have you heard

that before? You know that song? He's the son of the original ge You got damn right. I know that so that I played that the other week from my girlfriend because she was like, I was like, babe, have you never heard that? And she was like, what are you talking about? Have you ever you've never heard this masterpiece? This should is like this should is like purple haze to me, I don't know. That's my amatic. I love that.

Y'all can have Jimmy Hendricks if you want to. I want that old dude in a backwards hat in a suit jacket for some reason. This is this is that's my songs in the Key of Life. I have a fun game for us to play, and it's a game called make that Brand Racist. It's a very fun game where I will introduce to you much in the way that we are unpacking the Timberland logo and potentially connecting

it to the KKK and hanging people from trees. I am going to introduce to you other logos that potentially might have something insidious in their imagery, and what I would love for you to do is just unpack it. Help me find the racist elements of whatever this is that worked for you. Love finding the racism. Love finding the racism. Great. So the first logo, and I'm gonna describe them all. I'm not even gonna show them to you.

They're all ones that you're familiar with, I'm sure, and if you need to look them up, you absolutely can. But the first logo is the polo logo. The man on the horse swinging the pole low stick, the polo logo. What's racist in there? Okay? All right? So I was watching The Godfather the other day, right, Um, you know, and the guyfather the like big movie executive. He has his beautiful horse that he loves. There's a point where

the horse gets up like fucking killed the head. The head is chopped off and left and the dude's best it's like a threat. But you know who was taking care of the horses niggas. That's the only black father. It's the Moses, the only one. So okay, yeah it's racist because niggas took care of the horses but couldn't

couldn't ride the horses. Also, did you know, and this is actually a true fact, A bunch of the motherfucker's and who used to win the Kentucky Derby were black and black people were so much they had the band Niggas. Band Niggas in like the WHOA because they get you. The ship was it was like the fucking NBA. It's just everybody was black. Swear to god, WHOA. I didn't

know that. Okay, there's a few things to unpack in that statement, because number one, I love the fact that that, yes, the black people who took care of that horse should be in the logo as well. They should be like posing next to the horse, like posted up and they're like, yeah, that's my horse. I brushed his tail, I made him look fly. And it's not just the dude who's swinging the polo mallet that gets to be celebrated. It's some

niggas that worked hard on it. But then, holy sh it, I had no idea that black people were banned from horse racing. That's nuts, rue, man. I learned something new on this podcast every day, and some of it's made up, and I still celebrate it. Stay next logo, Okay, the next logo. This is exciting. Look cost you know that alligator with his mouth open. He's got a red tongue and his mouth is opened the La cost logo. What's racist than the La Costs logo? Oh, Dan, this is

actually a very easy one. This is very easy. You ever heard the term gator bait? I have not, so, so this is this thing I think. I don't know if it was true or if it's like a sort of urban legend, but they say that like enslavery times, like in Florida, in like the sort of southern swampland, like white people would use black babies like black enslaved baby and feed them motherfucker's two alligators. And actually the University of Florida, I think, who are the Gators right there?

That's like their football team. All that they have, like they do like the chomp thing whatever. I think they have like a gator bait song or chant or something, and they like, you know, you know, this summer like the George Floyd stuff, all that stuff, Brianna Taylor, all that like happened, and people were like, you know, we're the Washington football team now or whatever. The fun racism and they were like, we're gonna stop there. You know,

a racist song. We're saying we ain't got that. Sorry, sorry, but sweater God, he's whoa babies, man, you're killing it right now. I didn't know. That's another fucking thing. I didn't know Gator Bay they were feeding, or at least imagining, feeding black slave children to alligators. That's just me. There's not even a reasoning for it. That you're losing money, don't you sucking up your own A little black baby could have grown up to be a useful tool, a

nice uh a nice. He could have been a cobbler, and then we could have better quality black shoes in the community. King wouldn't have had the ship. So you're saying, you're saying, they're stealing our potential leaders and best from us by feeding them to alligators for their own entertainment. And even worse now, they put that alligator that they used to murder those black babies on a polo shirt that they sell for for seventy dollars and put a pastel color on it and make it seem like it's

an expensive, uh illustrious brand. This is wild, la cost. Shame on you for that thing that we just created as a fictional thing that you did. They're just taught us. Man, here's another fun one, and maybe this will be our last one. This is a fun one, and I'm very excited for this one. Chanel. The label Chanelle, which is those two sees that are inter linked, that are not facing each other, but are still linked in the middle. What's racist about Chanelle? Damn? Oh, this is this is interesting,

you know you. I realized also that now I'm gonna just be playing this game constantly with myself. So fun. It's a fun game. I'm so happy I came up with him. Damn. Okay, Chanelle, Chanelle, Oh all right, got it. I don't know if you remember. There was a guy I think his name was reverend, like Joseph Lowry or something.

He gave the benediction at Obama's first inauguration. But there was a point where he was like where he started saying this sort of little chance was like, you know, if you brown stick around, if you black, stay back. If you white, you all right? All right? He was like the days of that are gone. That was kind of his his like moment, right he was where motherfucker's

were like, oh that nigga spit. But um, I think that the Chanel logo is a visual metaphor for if you black, get back, because it's like the sea, which stands for colored, like walking towards you, but then there's another shoe that's like, nah, you gotta go back. He's being turned around. It's like a mirror image. It's like the person being redirected in the direction that they were

supposed to be in their mind. Right, Like the first sea is like I would like to eat at the lunch counter, and the second sea was like they said, I can't come in, you can't get the sandwich. Man. You fucking nailed it. The only thing I could come up with was caucasion. See for call and see for casi. Wow, occasion, Well, I only damn, I'm only calling white people casion. Occasionally, these occasions over here, that's some casion activity. Yeah, these

occasions acting up. This was fun. This is a great time. Nate. Can you tell the people at home where they can find you any cool ship you have going on to look out for? Uh? What what do y'all need to know? I don't know. I'm on Twitter, I tweet about poems and ship that makes me laugh and uh, I'm at illuminate Mike's m I cs all one word on there. I don't know. Just google me. I write poems by my book whatever God and God bless you, but by his goddamn book before I get upset? Idiots, what are

you listening to this? Or if you're not gonna buy his book, dummy? In the next book I'm putting, I'm putting this my Angeloo poem, So get ready for that one. That's just gonna be the whole cover is the Maya Angelo poem. And then you open up for Nate's work. Yeah, preorder that book. It's what's it's gonna be called The Last Niggers and Parents beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece. And as always,

you can find me at Lenkston Kerman. And please, if you have any drops, if you have any conspiracy theories, if you have any cool stuff that you think that I should be aware of, or you want to hear on the podcast, please send that to my Mama pod at gmail dot com. I would love to hear from you, like and subscribe to the podcast. I love when people say mean things, so go crazy on that. Otherwise by