Talk That Ship To Me (with Troy Walker)

a way that that you didn't expect. I know, I was the only person that said, there's two more niggers out loud, out loud, Yeah, chips in your racist money. Actually stuff, I can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep, there

it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where we dive deep deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories and we finally worked to prove that the noose in Bubba Wallace's garage was not a hate crime, but rather a warning from a time traveling nigga from the future to tell Bubba chill with the NASCAR and learn to host the b ET Awards instead. Look, man, you ain't that good at driving. You got to get

on the b ET Awards. That's what the man from the future was trying to say to him with the noose, and he was completely misinterpreting it. That's the conspiracy theory I'm spreading this week. That's the nonsense I'm putting out in the world. I'm your host, lanks to Kerman as always coming in hot baby, coming in hotware back. This is our our second week back from hiatus, and I'm happy to be with you. But more importantly, I'm happy

to be here with my guests. And here means over zoom because I don't think in person ever is going to exist again because you niggas don't know how to act. But the point is over zoom. My guest today is a hilarious I'm so happy he's here, hilarious comedian, hilarious stand up. You know him as a writer on Jimmy Kimmel Alive. That's that's one of the good late night shows. There are some stinkers, but Jimmy Kimmel Alive and one of them, and he helps write that show so funny.

Please give it up for my guests. Mr Troy Walker, Hey, happy to be here, man, I'm happy to be here. I'm happy you're here. You know, it's funny about that. Intro actually went to a NASCAR race the other day. Whoa, yeah, how was it? Honestly it was great? It Okay, this is this is exciting for me because I was actually having a debate and different writer's room about whether or not black people can show up to NASCAR and be

un unbothered, you know what I mean. Like I always I thought, like, all right, I like the idea of getting drunk and watching cars going circles. That seems fun, but I would imagine that the community of NASCAR is not gonna be like chill with me being there. I mean, this was so I went. It was the first time I've ever gone to one, and I kind of went, I guess in that same kind of like let me just see you know. I went with like one of

my comic friends, Brent gil I think you know Brent. Yeah. Uh. So we go out there, we like drive to Fontana or whatever, and I mean there is that like thing where it's like trumpy, right, Like there's like the fun Joe Biden t shirts or whatever, and like trucks with the big flags and stuff and as as it should be if if ever there was a space for that, they built that. If you build, they will come. Yeah,

I get it. But honestly, the vibe was like pretty good other than that, And there were way more black people than I ever expected to see, Like, way more black people than I ever expected to see. Bro, that's that's actually really encouraging. Yeah, I was blown away actually by how many black people are actually there. I have to figure that's Bubba, Like, you know, how we do it, Like there's like a black dude doing that. We're gonna was Bubba racing? Was he was? He? Now? He was there?

How do you do? What place he come in? Look, that's not the point. We all got to talk. Why why are you trying to be negative? Look he was there, that's that's what he came in a strong thirty fifth plade, and they are saying he's one of the best thirty fifth place performances they've ever seen. Look it wasn't his fault. You know, they kept they kept the police kept pulling

him over during the race. Uh No, it was like it was honestly, man, it was like kind of fun, Like it's like it's loud, it's like, you know, he just kind of sitting there drinking. It's it's good. Yeah, it seems I mean like a lot of live sports that are more fun to obviously watching person than they

are on television. I feel this way about baseball. It's one of those things where it seems like you could check out for a while and you haven't missed a thing, and so it's it's that's great for fucking live because you can just talk some ship hang out and then you go back and it's like, oh yeah, they're still doing loop de loops perfect. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also like in person, it feels like less time when they're

on the other side than it does on TV. You know, like TV it feels like, oh, like what do you do the other time? You know, like when they're not right in front of you, but right there. I mean, they're going so fast that it's like, you know, it pretty it's pretty quick. It actually was like nowhere near as boring as I thought it might be. And uh yeah, it was like I don't know, it's like good energy. They do five hundred laps, that's the deal. No, I think the one I saw was like maybe a hundred

and fifty. Oh so I'm way over or something. It wasn't like anything because I thought, like the same thing, it was like something like two hundred, but I know it wasn't actually two hundred laps. I think it was like one fifty because they did like three stages, Like I learned like a decent amount while I was there.

They do like the races and stages. Now see, I'm gonna sunk around and go somewhere and be like what they doing five hundred laps and then those white people are going to have a reason to be my ass, you know what I mean. They're gonna be like, look, man, we're cool with y'all being here, but you can't be in here dumb as fuck asking questions. But it was like yeah, then like people like wearing like his stuff, like his like Bubba Wallace's jerseys and stuff. Yeah, it

felt he got jersey. I gotta give me a bubble while jerky number thirty. You can get a whole Yeah, you can get a whole jacket and everything. I love that. Okay, we can't. We can't talk about Bubba and his hen and against all day because you came to us with a conspiracy theory that frankly, I don't know that I've ever heard before, and I'm super excited to talk about you said, my mama told me slavery with faith and

black people were already in America. I saw this on Twitter a while back, and then apparently it's like like b O. B is like kind of a believer in this, Like I said, like an article I found about this, well, yes,

and I I get. I dove deep into the article and the article is actually written by a former guest on the show, Michael Harriet of the Route, and it is jarring uh discovery from b O. B. That's right, Bob has discovered that slavery in fact is a complete ruse because he's not exactly clear why, but it's a complete ruse because black people, I guess, we're in America before we were originally brought here quote unquote originally brought here via slave ship. Yeah, Like he like was saying,

wouldn't like that. It's like shoot where you're like that's not true, like something so easily disprovable. Like he's like, you haven't noticed, you never see a slave ship. You feel like you just told me you don't go to museums. Bro, I feel like that's the only thing you told me. Okay, So so I think based on your energy alone, I get the sense that you're not bought in on this conspiracy theory, that this is hell No you're subscribing to and B O B is not a selling point for you.

You're not B O B doesn't make you want to believe it more. No, bro, come on now, I look, I'll admit I had his albums that a lot of people did. I had his albums, but no, let me ask you this were When when did you first discover that B O B was is a conspiracy theorist? Was this the one that broke you open? Or were you aware of his earlier conspiracy theorists theories? Excuse me, I don't know that I know of his other conspiracy theories. Oh yeah, well he has one that that really ruined

his career. And he was an early early investor in the flat Earth movement. He was actually one of the first sort of like celebrity people to come forward and be like, the Earth ain't ain't round, it's flat. And he even went so far as to make a very public go fund me so that he could invest in in creating a satellite type situation so that he could prove that the Earth is flat. He's fully invested. This isn't just like a passive theory for him. He he

invested in a satellite. No, no, no, he invested in setting up a go fund me so that so that the public could invest in a satellite that I guess he was gonna build to try to figure out if the Earth is in fact flat. I mean, you know, sometimes you know how you go like, you know, like some people shouldn't have money, Yeah, you know, like when you go like somebody else should be in charge of their money. Absolutely, And I feel like that's one of

those situations. But it's also like bad because it's like he wasn't even gonna put his money behind it, Like he was like, I'm gonna start to go fund me No, And and I would dare to say it's because he doesn't have much money left. I don't know that. Uh, that B O B is now raking in the coin from those early two thousand CITs that probably have carried as long as we wish they would have. Oh god, he spent all the Strange Clouds money. Yeah, man, it's

all gone. What was that the joint with Bruno Mars. It's gone, it's it's done. Okay, So so you're not bought in on Bob's conspiracy theories. That sounds like any of them, certainly not not the current one, the most recent one that we're talking about. No, no, no, no, no no, I mean, how could you. That's like a hard one. Sure, it's it's a silly it seems silly. Let me ask you this this now follow up question. I guess are you a person who buys into conspiracy

theory in general? Are you like anti conspiracy theory? Are you very much like No, the government tells us the truth and I dig what they got going on. I don't. I don't feel like it's those extremes. Oh you don't like the set up, the trap that I put you win? No, I don't know that you have to be I think you can be like I think most conspiracy theories are trash, but I'm not. But I also don't think like, oh, you know, the government tells us everything the truth. But

I think, like, you know, I don't. I mean, I think that would be like necessilly black man that believes that. Yeah, I don't know who that is. I know he wears a lot of polo shirts. Yeah, frankly, I don't even know if he's still doing that. Nobody's checked on B O B and so long that his style, his energy has changed in a way that who knows what he looks,

who knows what he's doing. But no, no, I wouldn't say no. I don't typically subscribe to conspiracy theories because I feel like the thing about conspiracy theories is they always require like a bunch of stuff to perpetuate themselves, you know, like it's always like one of those things where like the second there's like evidence against the conspiracy, they have to like use that is more evidence of the conspiracy. You know. It's always yeah, you're like people

like that's not a thing. I have like a chart with numbers that shows you why that's not true. And they go, yeah, well who made that chart? They're just right, like it's just like and I'm just not I have a lot of agree man, Like I just can't think like that, you know, Like, yeah, I I think I've talked about this before on the podcast, but when Kyrie came out as a quote unquote flat earther, I was actually there. He talked about it at the All Star Game.

I believe it was like seventeen. I was there shooting a VR thing for I think it was Oculus or some ship. I don't remember, but the point is I was sort of like standing near the the podiums of everything that was you know that all Stars were all sitting around They're doing their various press conferences whatever, and they asked Lebron actually because Kyrie had said it earlier that morning, and then they asked Lebron because they're still

on the calves together at the time. They're like, a, Brian, have you heard that your star teammate thinks that the Earth is flat? And then Lebron yells over to the other podium that Kyrie is at. He goes, yo, read you think the Earth is flat? And then you can see Kyrie go and it's very much this is early

in Kyrie trolling doing the thing phase. I think he's in a much different space now, but at the time you just see Kyrie's eyes get real low and he goes yeah, and you can tell he doesn't believe it. But what he did sort of suggesting things that I followed up on and things that I read, and even Steph Curry got in trouble for some weird conspiracy theory

ship around the same time. And the point that I think a lot of these guys kept trying to make is that history books don't always tell us the truth, and so there's plenty of reason for us to question the history that we have. And I think that's sort of like the dangerous game that conspiracy theory creates because that statement is a true history books lie to us constantly. We're not always being presented with the truth, even in

in you know, current media. That said, there has to be a point where you stop asking questions and you take it at a level of face value. And if you keep just asking more and more, well, how do we know, how do we know? You're just trapped in a a very dumb tunnel. Yeah, man, I used to have a bit about how you can't question everything, like because at a certain point you have to trust something. Because the thing is the other thing about the conspiracy

theory people to me is they trust people. It's not that they don't like In fact, they're like the most trusting people I've probably ever talked to in my life. It's always like, you know, but the difference is is that instead of trusting the CIA. They trust like a dude with like a clip art website, right. It Like it's not like I'm not saying you should trust the CIA. I don't think you should, certainly not as a black person. They have, like you know, there's like tons of history

of like, no, they're pretty cool. Let's let's take it easy. The CIA is fucking nailing it. We all should be big fans, right what I'm saying, Like, you know, if you're gonna go like, Okay, I don't trust the New York Times, but like I would, I would be more amenable to it if you were to say, but I also don't trust this like dude on reddit. But they're completely all in on dude on Reddit. And that's like so to me, it's like not that they don't trust everything.

It's like if anything, to me, they probably don't question enough. They just question. They question anything that isn't them being in on something. Yeah, I mean I think to some extent, it's it's the trust. Is I trust that that there are more questions here, and that's that's probably a good instinct, right, Like that almost feels like some scientific method ship. But then the questions that you're asking are falling far short of scientific anything scientific. It's just being like, well, how

do you know? And it's like I don't, bro Like, I can't prove every single element of this because I'm not an expert in every field. No one is, and so it becomes this unwinnable game that only they can

sort of like stake a flag in. Yeah, but it's also like there are experts in fields, but sometimes like they'll act like the person who is an expert can't be trusted specifically because they are an expert like that kind of yeah, And it's like but that, like I guess in in the end, it's like you can question everything, m but at a certain point you have to trust something specifically because you can't, like nobody can be an expert in everything, like, so ultimately you have to trust

somebody about something. And you know, on balance, I'd probably rather trust like to do with a bunch of like degrees and stuff on it than like dude on Reddit, I think, yeah, I think there's probably a balance that needs to be had of this probabilities wise, Yeah, I can say, you know, I fuck with the dude on reddit for for introducing me to questions that I had not considered, while simultaneously acknowledging that these educated people probably are coming from a level of no how and and

learning that is still useful to the greater good of the world, or at least greater learning of the world. Right. It's it's a dance, you know what I mean? Yeah, but I also like tend to like I kind of like operate on that, Like, yeah, you know what is like they say, like never like attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity or something like that. Like, I think a lot of stuff happens because people are idiots. Yeah, So like I don't need to like see like a

whole bunch of like lines between everything. Sometimes if like the simplest explanation, this is probably like a big screw up right up. Yeah, And I do think that that also is is a thing that that conspiracy theory sometimes misses, is that it creates like a a giant, massive conspiratorial like everybody behind the curtain was moving perfectly to create this dangerous mayhem whatever thing to happen, when in reality, most of us are idiots. Like the absolutely vast majority

of the world is run and moved by idiots. Even the people who are intelligent are only intelligent and specific ways and often fumble in other ones. And that means that those idiots funk up. And then that creates a way that that sometimes people are hurt or sabotaged or treated poorly, and we we ain't gonna apologize, so we just invest in the in the damage that we've done instead of just being like, oh, fuck, Steve's a dummy.

I don't know what to tell you. That's why that happened. Yeah, bro, Like I feel like, Um, the other thing about it is like it's interesting to me with like conspiracy theories a lot of times because it will be like this thing, well, they'll be like where everything behind the scenes operated perfectly to like make this conspiracy when like nothing works like that, Like every like for the conspiracy to be true, like all of the different parties and like organizations and people

and all, and none of it will get out. None of it gets out officially. Everybody keeps their mouth shut, nobody tells their cousin when they're drinking or something like, none of none of that stuff ever happens, and everybody pulls off the conspiracy perfectly. Yeah, like it's that's that's just not how anything. Yeah, nobody's snitching, nobody's fumbling the the truly in like super like complicated thing that's happening in front of you. It it just is everybody's working

perfectly and it it never fumbles. But apparently on the other side, we fumble all the time. It's yeah, it's it's too complicated for for it to all work out the way that the conspiracy theorists want us to believe. That said, I think it's also more complicated than oftentimes the history books try to break it down where it's just like, yeah, a few mean men did a mean thing, and uh, those mean men are gone now and we're all sweets ever since. Yeah, No, I don't believe that

ship either. I think you cannd like I think. I think there's a difference between saying they don't tell you the whole story versus that there is a completely different story that has nothing to do with it, Like, they obviously don't tell you the whole story, and they obviously try to sanitize it and everything. But yeah, I don't tend to go in too deep on conspiracy theories. There are certain ones that I'll be like, yeah, maybe I feel like there's probably something to that, and then they're

like other ones that are obviously have been proven true. Well, well, let me ask you this before we go to break. I guess I want us to get back to the the conspiracy theory at hand. I think we've been living a lot in theory right now, which is nice. I'm enjoying the conversation. Don't you stop having a good convo with me, tru. But I'm wondering if there's any element of the conspiracy theory at hand that you are brought

into do you want to mean that? Like, basically, b O b And and people like him are suggesting that slave ships did not exist, and that slavery as it was, at least as the way that we understand it didn't exist, and that black people existed in America well before we think they did, that we are more original to America than than we are led to believe. Is there any element of that where you're like, I can see what they're doing there from the stuff I've seen, No, WHOA,

You're like like, these n is just making stuff up? Yeah, Because to me, it's like and I guess maybe in a way, I sort of respond viscerally to it because in a way it feels like letting white people off the hook in a way, Oh interesting, you know what I'm saying, Because it feels like it's almost like they go, like, the Atlantic slave trade is like one of the greatest genocides in human history, and so for you to act like it didn't exist to me is like it's like

Holocaust denial to me, Oh that's interesting, and there's like things like that that really bother me about and so and so. In a way, it kind of because because from what I've seen, basically the argument is like they tell you that so they can subjugate you, so that you don't know that you were already here, right, But they they the subjugation after slavery existed, whether slavery rehappened or not, right, But in saying that it didn't, you take a whole horrible piece of that history away and

act like it didn't happen. Arguably one of the worst parts because of the amount of time slaves like we're you know, they were branded in Africa, had to walk like hut miles and miles and miles before they even sold put on the ships. Then the ships sat on the coast of Africa, often for months before they even departed. People just sat there longer on the coast of Africa, Africa, and those tight quarters on those ships before the ship

has even left Africa to head across the Middle Passage. Right, And you've gotten rid of all of that, and you've turned it into all to be able to create like a American Nigga origin story. That yeah, it's like yeah,

and I and to what purpose? Well, and to your point, I think it the purpose almost is is not worth the sacrifice that's being presented, right that, like the Transatlantic slave trade is not something you can you can dismiss or should be dismissed, rather simply to be able to say, naw, brother, wake up. You belong in America. You are of America, and you your history is rooted here, and so it creates this sort of complicated dance I guess where it's like.

I think their intention is good right there, saying look, you don't have to feel like a foreigner in your own country. You should feel pride in sort of knowing that you are of this land. But in doing so, I think to your point, you're also dismissing the insane amount of genocide, sacrifice, whatever you want to call it, that happened before this from generation of generations of right. And I don't think it's a I don't I don't

think it's a choice. Like I think it's like like to me, the whole reason Black Americans have can have pride and ownership in this land is because our blood is in the soil. That's all. That's the entire reason.

Like this this ship is, this ship is mine. Like that's if there's anything that kind of bothers me about, Like some of that ship were like you know, all the like Trump eas and stuff, and they try to like claim that man like all of the people, all the black people that I grew up idolizing, like my black heroes who were Americans, whether that's Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, whether that's Jackie Robinson, like, whether that's Frederick Douglas,

like whatever, Like we've fought in every single war this country has ever had against like odds, we've fought. We've helped build this bitch, we built the White House. Nigga. I don't need you to make up a fake story for me. Like, if anything, the whole reason this is the only shift I have is because that happened, so like it's it's like to me, it's like a false choice. It's like you're you're taking the reality of the pain of this a way to give me something that I

already had. Bro Well, I'll say this, Your heroes may have fought here, but my heroes are Kim al Ju and Kim Tumbo, So we differ in that way. But the Kimba was a nugget, so for me him too. Those are the only civil rights leaders I acknowledge. Is uh former NBA centers. All right, we're gonna take a break. We'll be back with more Troy Walker and more, my mama told me. And we are back. You got what I need. Yeah, We're back here with more Troy Walker more.

My mama told me. We're still talking about the possibility that slavery is a long con. It's a big ruse that was played on all of us because black people were in America to begin with. We've always been here, they say on the internet, in their lonely little pockets of stuff. Do you do you know at all if that there's any truth to that side of it, that that people were in fact originally in America before the

trends and the Atlantic slave trade introduced us. I feel like I heard some kind of thing a long time ago about how like supposedly some ship like there was like some historical record thing for like ship from Africa having like made it to the New World at some point. But I, you know, i'd have to like dig into that, like and you know, research it. But I feel like I heard that like a long time ago. It's also

possible that I completely just made that ship up. Well rest your furrow brow, Troy, because I took the time to do some of that research, and I can tell you that, as it turns out, there were a ton of black people who participated in the Age of Exploration, which was the early fifteen hundreds, and who found themselves traveling to North, central and South America for new lives and new opportunities. So black people were in at touching

the America's well before the Transatlantic slave trade ever happened. Now, I'm sure you know about like the just being aware of like this sixteen nineteen project where they talk about the fact that you know, twenty something black people were sort of like introduced to America, and I believe jonestown and that was the beginning of the quote unquote slave trade to the America's But at the it says, at least from the very short and and possibly short sided research,

I did that all the way back to the early fifteen hundreds, black people were kicking it around here. I mean I buy that all right, Like I bought Here's why I buy that, because you know, I was listening as other this other podcast is like a history podcast, is I'm like a big nerd and ship and uh, I was talking about how it was like a thing I had really considered just that like Africans are of the old world and and you know, I mean there's like a reason of Othellos are more right, Like there's

like obviously it wasn't like Europeans and there weren't aware of black people, like that's right, and they know there was movement between all those countries and all that kind of stuff. Like it's it's to me, it stands to reason that black people would have made it to America. Yeah,

in in another capacity. And I do think again, if we're talking about sort of like the intentional manipulation of history, this feels like a great example of it is not working to any colonizer's advantage to suggest that black people were here before they were do you know what I mean that Like if if early fifteen hundreds black people were had already been traveling and already knew how to get here and all that stuff, then that's sort of like, uh,

dismisses a lot of the the quote unquote discovery of America, all the things that we've been told in terms of like, oh, this is when Americans has it worst started to arrive. So it's easier to just be like, na, man, black people didn't come here, and so we we brought him here. And so you know, technically you are visitors or at least unwelcomed guests in our territory, when in fact, we were all as unwelcomed as everybody else. You know what

I mean, We're all sneaking as motherfucker of course like that. Yeah, that that to me, I don't have. My issue is with like, no, slavery was fake. That's that's bullshit. Yeah, that's my that's my issue. Yeah. No, And I think to that point, the fact that black people existed in America before slavery does not make slavery any less of a real thing for the millions who were unwillingly transported

to this country. And moreover, I read in the article about the often overlooked relationship between black people like captive black people and Native Americans that was born during slavery. Right, Yeah, there's like a whole broad like history of it. I think, Like, I think my thing about that conspiracy is it's like this weird like hotel inception thing and ends up being

self defeating. It's like it's like man like all of this stuff, like like I was saying, like Africans of the of the old World, Like Africans, you know, countries had kingdoms and everything else. It stands, you know, for thousands of years. It stands completely to read boats ropes. Let's let's just be as frank as probably. It doesn't matter if you have kingdoms and math and all the other.

Ship We had fucking boats and we knew how to travel, and y'all are trying to pretend like we were just so dumb and so naked that like we we couldn't even figure out how to float on water. Y'all didn't

invent that ship man. Relax, Right, Yeah, of course My thing is, just don't tell me right now to the question or or the point of the black people in the Native Americans, because I do think that this is an important point that might coincide with some of what's happening in the hotels, the b O B mindset right the Native Americans, which I didn't realize, and it's not something that's often, I guess promoted, advertised, published in a

lot of our history books. But Native Americans were also forced into slavery in this country alongside their black counterparts. Right they shared bondage, and oftentimes they found themselves in this shared bondage hooking up. They were intermingling. They you know, relationships were being born, and sometimes those relationships would even

go so far as to marriage. But because that marriage between a Native American person and a black person was considered such a taboo, they never were allowed to make those marriages legal, and so there's very little documentation of the actual like bonds that were built between these groups.

And subsequently, the children that were born of those relationships were often forced into a more extreme version of slavery because you're basically like a little cursed child, like a little uh, what the funk is this humunculous baby that nobody wanted, and so it just turns into this weird game I think for the the hotels that read this thing where we're conflating this relationship that that goes undocumented in these relationships that no one talks about with an

origin story, these relationships weren't coming before America's started. We're just having relationships with the people who were here before America started and intermixing. And now your history is tied with their history in a way that isn't being acknowledged. Oh yeah, but I mean that's you know, you put

people together, man, that's that happens. And it's just like black indentured servants would hook up with Irish indentured servants like you know and like all that, like the sixteen hundreds before it was like before slavery was specifically about race, and you know they were they were black indentured servants. They would sometimes like have babies and stuff with you know, these like white immigrants from Europe and stuff like that. It's like the race based slavery, my understanding is, came

later as a way. You know, slavery had been like a thing throughout history, but to make it specifically like if your black, you're a slave was a very American thing. Well, yeah, it's it's a very American thing that we do in a lot of ways, right, It's it's branding. We we truly are. We We love fucking capitalism in this country and we have since its conception, And so I think in a lot of ways, it's like, well, what's the easiest way to ensure that our slaves remain slaves and

don't start finding upward mobility? We base it off of their skin color, and that they can't dismiss your skin You can say you ain't Irish, you can say you ain't Italian, you can pretend to be not Jewish or whatever the funk it is that that we were attempting

to attach to people's shame. But black, that's its permanent baby, and Native American y'all dark too, We'll fuck you up the same way, yeah, man, And I think like that that thing, there's something to the like, they're all these other aspects of the history that aren't told the same way. What I think the issue with and what they're doing is they go there all these other aspects of the

history are told the same way. So that breaks It's like they go like the percentage of it overall in the in the whole like spectrum of the history of slavery and everything. Right like they dismissed like the seventy five of it because isn't as as well documented or as well publicized. Right like you watch like documentaries on slavery. They basically talked about the biggest part. They don't talk about the Native American part as much. They don't talk

about if they do it all whatever. But that is not a reason to dismiss the slave trade. No, And it's it's similar in an odd way. I didn't know this either, but there were also Native Americans who owned black slaves. There were black people who owned slaves. Yeah, that that this is a more complicated thing than just being like white people devil, Black people good, Nave Americans good.

But like you know, there were people who were just taking advantage of the the times and the financial institutions at play, and they were able to own slaves. But even during their ownership, the intermingling, much in the way that we saw with the whites was still happening. And so it is it is creating even more complicated inconvenient conversations to say, like the slave owners were sucking the slaves and they didn't really want to be slave owners sometimes,

but it was the best way to make money. And here's this and that and all of these things, when the reality is the easiest way to settle all of this is just to be like, we brought you here at at this point, you showed up, and we yelled at you for a while, beat the ship out of you, and then we let you go. Problem solved. Everybody's free, and now we get to move on with America as it is. And it's like, yeah, I think there's a few more things going on here, fellas. Oh yeah, there's

a ton more going on. Yeah, man, I was like, I actually was like reading this thing the other day about this woman as a black woman who had been a slave and then she got her freedom, and I forget how I think she may be married like some into some money or whatever and like went out and

got slaves as soon as she could. Yeah, like and like has like uh like a there's like a historical plantation I think in Florida that was like a black owned plantation, which is like one of the wildest fucking things you could think about, right, Yeah, it's like a national like landmark. I guess, I mean, I it seems less wild. I guess if she wasn't a former slave, like if it was just a lady who was like, hmm, I can't wait to own me a nigger. That seems I can't see how you make it to that point

as a black person in this country. But if you went through it the idea of being like, as soon as I get out, I'm gonna put someone else through that ship. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, it was so wild, man Like I went down like a whole like internet like rabbit hole, like just read, just reading about craziness. Damn. I hope I'm not related to her, you know. That's

that's a part of our history. So much of our our history as black people has cut off from us, and and some of it is intentional, and some of it is just our our families don't track that stuff the same way that white historians have have long sort of made the checkpoints for track. But that eighty, well, it stopped at the water. We tried to trace it back, don't. I don't know what country we came from, but I guess Maryland is where I started. But that said, I

do feel like a bunch of us. At some point they're gonna start figuring out that, like we just had black slave owners and our family white ones. You know what I mean That we're just maybe maybe you'll be the first person on talking to Henry Lewis Gates would be the first black dude to get that. He goes like this and you go, he's just gonna look at my papers and be like, hey, can we come to

commercial fellas. Uh. I don't know if this one is as good of an episode as the previous, Like this is what your grandmother did, and you go, oh, not me, Oh guy, Oh, Henry, let's talk tons again. It was much better when you talk to nas. Yeah, somebody has to be the first black person to be embarrassed on finding your roots. Well, I guess I'm willing if it means more TV time, I'm willing to make that sacrifice. I will be the first person to come forward as

the descendant of a black slave owner. Exciting times for me, terrible news for the rest of America. All Right, we're gonna say one more break. We'll be back with Marsry Walker I'm what my mama told me, and we all back anyway. Yeah, we're back here with more Troy Walker. More. My mama told me. We're still talking about the fact that the slave trade may be a long con. It might be a big old trick that that the white man is playing on us because we've been Americans this

entire time. Is what is what they're saying, and Troy does not believe it. He's furious at the idea. He'll beat your ass. B o b That's what he said during break. If I see that, nigga, I'm a punch

himent of the clouds and in the strange clouds. Okay, I want I have a few more, I guess research points that I'd love to unpack with you because one of the first questions that I asked myself as I was sort of sitting down to look through all of this is, and I'm maybe a little embarrassed to say it, but the question that popped in my head is why

don't we see more slave ships? You know, because like to your point, there there are a few museums that have remnants and sort of like pieces of slave ships or ships that transported slaves, but it's not as if, like, given the scale of what the trans Atlantic slave trade was, it's not as if we're seeing a ship ton of them or even know where all of them, any of them, frankly ended up. And so that was the question that

I immediately asked myself. Now, I have some answers, but I have a feeling you have an answer on the tip of your tongue as to why we haven't seen them. I mean, I guess I figured I didn't research. It's that's not your responsibility, like I know, like, uh, like the Smithsonian have some stuff, and like some others have some stuff in there. Like I figured it was probably because they were mostly would and uh, I figured that

was probably a significant part of it. I also figured, it's not exactly like the kind of ship that like at the time they were trying to like you know, cot and lacquer and keep around, you know what I mean, Like like this, like again, what you do that with Like oh, this ship, this ship took out six British frigates, right like the Revolutionary War. I get what you save

that one. I don't know if you I don't know if you necessarily go through the effort to like you probably take it apart and build something frigates African niglets one of them, one of those. Yeah, it wasn't like they didn't know slavery was bad at the time. Like I feel like it's like the same, like you know, like sometimes they like in a way people will act like they didn't know, but they like they were well

aware they knew slavery was bad. I don't know that anybody would trying to like right, there had to be people on the boat being like, hey, not gonna lie. This is fucked up. I know we can pay you. I'm really I'm really happy to be working with you fellas, but this is pretty fucked up. The original Declaration of Independence that Thomas Jefferson wrote called out King George saying like, how dare you have introduced slavery? You stole Like it's

like they knew. Yeah. And to that point, I've done a fair amount of research on Thomas Jefferson's black ass, and uh, that's for the listeners. They know that he's secretly mixed. But the point is Thomas Jefferson, actually, despite having owned slaves, was super anti slavery. He like wrote constantly about like man slaveries trash and then would go fuck a slave later that night who who did not want to be a part of that. It wasn't like

they were making love that these were unwilling fox. Yeah, it's like, uh, I mean it's not like this, but like it's like this. It's like how always a good start to an analogy. Like I'll be like, man, like, man, what Kanye's doing. He's like tripping, but like I'll buy any album he makes. There's like you know what I mean, Like I'll be like, oh, this is like horrible. Like he's like he's like stalking hers like all this stuff.

And then like he'll put out like I saw like that video where he you know, berries Pete Davidson up to his neck and on and stuff, and I was like, man, that's like awful. This motherfucker's crazy. And then it was the first thing I played when I got in my car ship So you are I love, I'm awful, I'm terrible. Well to you and you said you you said would, and I a part of me wanted to do to Steve Harvey good answer, good? You know what I mean?

What can I say? Would? He's saying, uh it turns out that, to your point, most of the materials that slave ships were made of weren't exactly going to make tests stand the test of time. Right, what is a very flimsy, easily deteriorating material, and between shipwrecks and time, the once powerful slave ships were no longer able to hold up the same Because I got me thinking like, well, is that actually true for all of these other famous ships that we've heard of over time, and the same

apparently as true for ships like the Mayflower. The Mayflower no one has seen in any version of recent history, and many believe the ship was scrapped for timber and

other recyclable materials. And I to your your grander point about the not wanting to keep these things around, I have to assume that with the fall of the trans atlantic slave trade, those ships likely face stay similar fate where they were recycled by the owners who could probably no longer afford to keep these deteriorating ships with no niggers at the bottom. You know what I mean. If you can't keep the blacks at the bottom, these ships are fucking worthless and carry quite a bit of shame

with them. So we're gonna we'll turn those into uh panels for people's houses. Yeah, it's like UH, as a kid, you ever build like a lego thing that you're real proud of and then like you needed the legos for something else, and you might not want to take it apart, but you do. But now imagine that those legos were evil. I think about how fast you would take it apart? Right now? What if those legos killed your grandma? Now

would you take that? Imagine if your entire family for the rest for generations would be shamed by that go house you built, It might change your mind about the plays. How fast you would take it apart. You're taking apart real fast. I love that. So in thinking about I guess the slave ships and the pieces that are often that that go missing. I found this article on National Geographic about a group that had uncovered UH It's called

Portugal's sal Jose Paquette Day Africa. It was a slave ship that sets sail from Mozambique in destined for Brazil and basically never made it. A whole bunch of people died on that slave ship. And these black divers, these black scuba scuba divers are where the main people sort of leaving leading this excavation of the this this famous

slave ship, which I thought was extremely telling. You know, black scuba divers are the only motherfucker's looking for this ship, right, Yeah, because I don't know if it's like imagine being like the white dude who's like, well, I'm gonna find me's some slaves. What did you say? It was called? Again? You you're gonna make me say it again? Sal Jose Paquette day Africa. Yeah, I want to just say it again because it reminds me of like me trying to like order on the menu that I I'll take the

sal Jose for this one. I'm not even gonna pretend to do Portuguese because I know it's not a Spanish accent, but I know it's not far. I just embarrassed myself if I even attempted. So I'm just gonna stick with the worst American version of it. Yeah. That's like, yeah, like when you go like, uh, your goal out of the country, like you know, like in some other country you don't speak the language, and you're like, um, you

try to say it. Yeah. I I always find that when I travel, I it about I get about three attempts in before I completely revert to asking for the dude that can speak English to come help me with whatever it is. Like, I'll like, I went to Mexico City a couple of years ago and I was like by myself trying to figure some sh it out, and after about three attempts, I was like, you know what, y'all, I ain't gotta do this, and you don't need me to do this. There's enough of you that speak English.

And I apologize for being the ignorant American who needs this, but I can't keep attempting to use my remedial Spanish and failing this major league. Yeah, man, I did the same thing in Montreal. I was like, I once I tried to pay with American money at a thing, and it's like it got really mad at me. I didn't mean to. I thought it would be like a good feel like every black person feels like you're gonna be a better tourist, like an international tourist than like what

you hear white people are like. And now not even a little bro Nope, not even for a second, not even black countries. Once to Jamaica and we stayed at a resort and it was My entire family was just it was just black people complaining about the food about like it's too salty, and they're just stucking their teeth and rolling their eyes at you, just like, man, well, I guess this is what they did to us. So to the slave ship conversation, one of the things that

you said that I think is really important. It's part of the reason we're not uncovering these remnants of this history is because white people aren't eagerly investing the efforts or the manpower to uncover this history. And this is actually a direct quote from the article that I this puts it in perspective in a really jarring way. But there are there were over twelve thousand ships making over forty voyages over two hundred fifty years of slave trade.

To date, there are only five five slave ships in maritime history in the database. Why is that five? There's only five five ships? What do you when you say in the in the maritime database, what do you mean like that you can go visit, meaning that there are only five that they actually were that they've documented as their purpose was for transit transferring black people. As far as I'm understanding that, like they have five ships that they know for sure they can prove had black people

on them transferring them to the these various places. I mean that seems low because I know there's like there's like documented like companies that they had in Europe that that was like that they would literally call themselves like the black like the Black Shipping like whatever. Like. Yeah, No, I think I think part of it is an intentional sort of like erasing of that documentation after that. It's not it's not that they never documented it, it's that since then they did a lot of work to sort

of like squeaky squeaky, squeaky clean that that situation. Yeah, And I think like after like because they banned the importation of slaves in like eighteen o eight, so after that it was illegal. Most of most of those slave runs would have been illegal, So you probably don't, you know, keep like records of it. But then yeah, they probably do, like didn't exactly take that much care and trying to keep up with it. No, and for what did you know, what do you want to tell people about this for

cut it out? I don't know, man, That's what I'm saying. I think like it's one of those things where as if you if you remember that people at the time knew it was bad. Like a lot of stuff to me starts to fall into place where you go like, yeah, they probably didn't want to like maintain the records the same way they probably didn't wanna maintain the ships and

like evidence of it, the same way. They probably were faster to repurpose stuff in ways that they wouldn't have otherwise to go like, oh, we used to use this ship for that, like now it's use it for this, and not say anything about what we used to use

it for like that exactly. I think. I think the larger point that the quote is trying to make is that these documentations are being erased and then subsequently the ships are being repurposed, and so now we only have five ships that we can actually point to and say we know for sure this existing piece of material held the bodies of of black people being transferred from this place to the next. So those five like currently exact, like you can go see them. That's my understanding. Yeah,

See that's okay. See I was confused. I thought you were saying like in like written record, No, no, no, I think they have more records of of people being transferred, although I don't know that they have nearly as many records as the amount of people transferred in the amount of trips. I think for the current existing like they they have five for sure. This is the body of the ship that transferred these people at the time, right, Okay, that makes more sense because I was like, man, like,

they only know the names of five of them, no more. Yeah, that's what I was saying. That's why I was like, I misunderstood you. I was like, if it was just five, if there's more Jackson's than there are names of ships, and maybe B O B is right, and and we're foolish to be having this conversation. Yeah, I misunderstood you. Okay, you can go visit five. Yeah, so like that, I don't know that I I don't know. That's like one of those things where you go, like would I want

to visit a slave ship as a black man. They used to make us do it in like middle school and ship where you it wasn't we visited a slave ship, but you had to like we went to the museum and they would make you lay on the ground and do the thing where like you had to lay side by side with the other kids to to feel what it was like to be in the you know, the cargo of these ships. And uh, yeah, you don't need to do that. You could just tell me, you know,

I don't. You don't need to feel that. Maybe that's better for white students. Maybe they need that that experience, that empathy to sort of flight kick in. For me, I was like, this feels fucking dumb. Why am I? Why am I here? I ain't nobody my grandma did that. It also doesn't like exactly work when you're gonna like get up in a second and they're gonna be like, all right, so here's everybody's sandwiches. Yeah, all right, lunchables. Uh if you got if you got the pizza lunchable

and you stand in this line and everybody else this way. Yeah, it's like that wasn't like. But I do think there's like an overall treatment of slavery that is in some ways not serious in in a general sense, like I I it's like it's like how people will have a plantation wedding, right, or how like a plantation Like there are plantations all over the South that are like airbnb s now right, or like you can go on YouTube. I did this the other day. I got so man,

I got so fucking mad. You can go on YouTube, you know how people will do like the video real estate tours and like this lady starts off and goes so I just want to start off by saying that this this house did have enslaved workers, but all of the like slave stuff has been torn down, Like it was like a selling point, like don't worry the cabin. Yeah, don't worry the slaves. They got booted a while ago.

But I could totally move into the Like that kind of thing is crazy when you really think about it, right, I mean, I think, to the larger point that you made early in the conversation, there's there's a real danger in our willingness to dismiss or skip over the scale

and weight and importance of all of these things. And while I don't want to find myself in some situation where like I'm constantly yelling at people because of slavery, I do think that like we we need to find some sort of balance in saying like, hey dog, we don't just get to pretend like these plantations you've preserved don't come with the costs, don't didn't weren't built on the lives of a lot of people who made sacrifices they didn't even want to make. They weren't even that

heroic in that sense. They didn't come here to be like I want to help America find it's it's voice. Like that wasn't the ship. They were forced into this ship and y'all then get to celebrate off of their bones. That's that's weird. Ye. Yeah, I don't think there's any like responsibility to be like constantly angry or yelling at me, but I do think it's important for me to be aware of how bad it was. Yeah, as far as informing my conception of self and conception of self within

this nation. Doesn't mean I don't have proud like pride in it, but if but part of that comes from the rise, right, like from people going from about the lowest station they could to like we Tunnias on TV Bro. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like I can take pride in that like while knowing it. At the same time, I don't need be ob to like make up a thing and like dismissed this for me to like own it, you know. So just to be clear, you take no pride in the lessons from b Ob not one. Damn

well bl b uh. This is a great episode for us, devastating episode for you, b O B. I don't think you get to walk away from this episode unscathed as much as you thought you might have at the beginning. Hey, you know, sometimes you put yourself out there. B O B. Was just putting himself out there and it didn't work out for him. But this is great. Troy, could you this is a fun episode. Could you tell the people where they can find you and what cool ship you

have going on? They can find me on Twitter and Instagram at Troy Walker e s Q. Hell yeah, And uh, you know, I'm just right and right for the show doing stand up. Watch watch Jimmy Kimmel alive. Maybe you see some of my nonsense. All right, Well, watch the ma cam O Live. Follow Troy on on Instagram and Twitter, do all of that stuff. And as always, you can follow me at Lankston Kerman on all platforms. Would love for you to do that. I fucking love it. And uh,

watch bus Down. It's on Peacock. It's it's a nonsense show I made with my friends, and I would love for more of you to see it. And then, finally, if you want to subscribe to the podcast, review the podcast, do all the things that podcasts are meant to have done to them consensually, then feel free to do it and send all of your conspiracy theories through my Mama pod at gmail dot com. I would love to hear

from you. Okay, I did all my spield by bitch quos, more racists, mostly money n s W. I can't tell me nothing on my long