Queer & Now (with Aida Rodriguez)

you know, or maybe that might entact him. And then he gets harder and then you're like, hell, yeah, this dude's boke. Let's keep going racist. You can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep, there it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where we died deep, deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories and we finally worked to prove that each one of those bumps on Morgan Freeman's face represents

another hard crux that allows him to live forever. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, he has split his soul amongst all of them little dots. I've counted him. He's about three hundred and seventy eight split souls at this point. And I don't know what his plan is. Why he would hide his hard crux is right in the center of his face. That is beyond me. But that's what the man is doing that I'm I'm not even sure we

can call him a man anymore. That goddamn old ass wizard Morgan Freeman is out here just splitting in little ass pieces and and covering himself with it. With them, I'm your host, Nankston Kerman coming in misbehaving is always hot, as as I like to call it. I'm happy to

be here. It's it's an exciting episode. This is a groundbreaking episode, which I'm not even sure my guest is aware of, but it's a groundbreaking episode because it's the first episode, the first ever episode where we are expanding the my Mama told Me multiverse. We are moving out of just just black shit and moving into communities that that also have conspiracy theories, that also know the dangers of Whitey and the White Devil. Do you know what

I mean. We're we're moving into the my Mama told Me multiverse, and my guest today is the perfect introduction to that multiverse because she's so goddamn funny. She's hilarious. You've seen her on so many things. She was on Day Ready on Netflix. But more importantly, she has a brand new special that is out available to you now. It technically it's not out as we're talking, but it's out, motherfucker's by the time you're listening, and you bitches better

go listening to it. You you better watch it. Fun listening to it, you watch it, you lock your eyes on it because it's amazing. She's so funny. It's called Fighting Words, and it's on HBO Max and you need to go watching, and she's great. Please give it up for my guests. Miss Ida Rodriguez, I've been laughing. First of all, I was like, when I heard the theme song, I started like grooving, and then I was listening to the words and I was like, is this Thundercat? Oh,

we can't afford Thundercat. But we did get my comedian friend Nick Chambers to to put some lyrics and music down. So I'm honored. I'm honored that Danster our our dumb ship. I just want to say one thing, and in the Latin X Latin a Latino community. We got black ship too, because that's right, that's fairy. I do not mean to

dismiss the blacks of all communities. I know there are blacks everywhere, and I only mean to say that we are expanding our universe and and and opening up to conversations beyond just black shit, if if we so choose, got it nice though, nice? Hell? Yeah, you know, we got conspiracy theories. We also are the descendants of slaves, so they're yeah. It's it's almost as if white people did the same trick to all of us and it just worked. It just worked differently, not better, not worse,

just differently on everybody's ship. They did it in different dialects and languages. You guys got a sexier dialect. I think out of the whole thing, we got shitty ass English, and I I don't know, I would have rather. Yeah, Spanish sounds cooler for slavery. I think, oh my gosh, this, you know what, Let's get castle together, let's do this thing. Yeah, that's that's my goal. I don't know what you came here for. If it's not for cancelation, what game are

we playing? All right, let's dive in because you came with a conspiracy theory that I had heard for years growing up. I never knew enough to even verify or or deny the validity of this conspiracy theory, but I feel like it's a classic, a very classic conspiracy theory and pop culture in the black community and all sorts of communities, I imagine. But you said, my mama told me Luther van Drass was secretly gay. Man, I heard

that so much. I guess what makes it so such a mystery is that you never saw a Luther with a partner, right, none. Yeah, And you know, I have a theory on a theory when it comes to this, because if Luther wasn't fact gay and his music that was about love resonated with so many heterosexual people, yea, then it would prove what we hear from the LGBTQ community all the time is that love is love. Yeah, Okay,

I like this. Okay, So what you're suggesting is is that Luther being a person living in the closet for lack of a better term, is not at all a barrier from our ability to accept the love that he's offering to the world. That when he sings these songs even though he may potentially be singing about a man, it's still resonates so well with me or any other heterosexual person that maybe this gender fluidity isn't this foreign, dangerous theory, but really it's just the way that we've

always been. Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's exactly what I'm saying. I just I was like my ex he dedicated Superstar to me, that was his song for me. But he he was also a little bit homophobic, and that would be like, yo, you feel about yourrible the

same way Luther feels about his boom. Yeah, okay, So so was he Were you calling it out where you like, yo, hey, by the way that song you dedicated to me, you know that's a that's a gay man that's singing about another man when when he when he's singing it, well, yeah, I was like, allegedly, right, so what does that mean? And he did? He was? He like, nah, I get the funk out. What was his response to this? Then he would say, Luther is not gay, he just keeps

his business to himself. I was like, okay, okay, okay, because that introduces I think a pretty complicated layer to all of this, right that that in a lot of ways. Luther sexuality was a very open secret in popular culture, right. We all, we is a royal we we all sort of knew that Luther was gay, but nobody really wanted to talk about it. Do you think that's that's a reflection of homophobia or is that merely wanting the story to still be able to exist for whoever we so

choose to dedicate our music to. You know, he wants to be able to keep it so that when he dedicates this song to you, it's not quote unquote tainted by someone else's experience. Well, I mean, everybody's okay when the people are allegedly straight, right, So why does it matter even if he was openly gay? Why wouldn't matter? Right that? In theory, Luther comes out he says, this song is that this song, I wrote it about a man. It shouldn't change the the lyrics, It shouldn't change the

feeling that comes from this thing. It should just be a different intent. Yeah, then we've placed on it. I just stopped listening to Frank Ocean. Yeah, I never stopped, right, And you know when he was saying Gang, I've didn't think about you. Yeah, you know, he could have been thinking about some penis, Yeah, just like me. And honestly that probably makes it connect better for you, y'all boasting about dick. Yeah wow. Okay, So at what point, let's

let's trace some of the history here for you. At what point do you think you be him aware that Luther Vandross may have allegedly been singing about men rather than his predominantly female audience. You know, I would think that it was when I got older, because the elders in my family used to listen to Luther and I was a kid, so I don't know. I thought it

was just a man singing. But when I got older and they started sending me the song saying I'm dedicating this this to you, So I think that that's when I was like, hey, man, I've never seen this man where the woman or anybody. I'm always seeing him by himself,

and I'm like, who is he singing too? And then when you watched him, you know, Luther used to wear the best eyeliner because he used to wear it, you know though, and the waterline is what we call and he got his eyeliner never ran and I'm always as a Puerto Rican girl, we we wear eyeliner. You know, sixth grade, we started sneaking the eyeliner to go to middle school, and and I would always try to find the perfect eyeliner I could put on my water line

that wouldn't wouldn't smear. You wanted that Luther line. I wanted that Luther line. So I think it was a little bit older, like maybe when I became like a teenagers, you know, seventeen eight team. And to his credit in terms of the the makeup of it all, he was a very sweaty man, like objectively a a very sweaty person. And for him not to have running eyeliner or runnie

makeup is that's that's impressive, absolutely impressive. And you know, not only if you say he was sweaty his costumes, remember the sequence tops the shirts, and that's really hot. It's super hot. So the lights, you know, And and then Luther was an actual reually a real singer, so it wasn't there was no auto tune or assistance. He wasn't singing the tracks. So that's a lot of cardio, you know. I'm like, that's a lot of work. His diaphragm is being compressed quite a bit to get some

of them notes that he's sitting out. Yeah, so I I mean he was putting in the work. He was sweating, and the eyeliner never ran, never ran him and Prince never and so as you're growing up, because I do think that this is this is an important element to this whole like tracking of someone's sexuality in relation to popular music popular culture. Are you looking at Luther and going, this is a person that I guess is a sexual being. Is lutheror sexty to you as a kid or is

he just Luther? Like? Where does he live in in that whole spectrum? Oh? Man, he was a captain of romantic like the captain of love music like it was just you know, the quintessential love love song like Superstar is probably one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, use a song with Gregory Hines that was there's nothing that, I mean, some of the most amazing music that I would say love just love music. But we did have sex to it, so

it was wrong. I mean it was sexy music. It was sexual music, and yeah, it's I guess I asked that question because I'm I'm interested in sort of the ways that sexuality or a person sexuality rather doesn't necessarily matter in terms of our enjoyment of like the art that they create that in a lot of ways, if you look at these people as poets, right, Like I didn't need to want to fuck Walt Whitman to be able to enjoy the sexuality that came out of Walt

Whitman's poetry, Like it still has all of the elements that you need to feel like a sexy, sensual person. And I think the same might be true for a Luther Vandros. Whereas you know, there are artists who they exude a sexuality that you do want to press into. I think Luther is one of those that, like, you don't you don't want to fuck Luther, but you kind of enjoy the sex he's able to create with with

his music. Absolutely, it's a beautiful soundtrack. And you know that's the thing that people who belong to the lgbt q I A plus community Hell yeah, hit autum no, no, you know what I'm saying. The reason that they probably feel like we objectify them, We absorb whatever they can give us, so long as they remain silent about who they are in terms in that aspect, and I think that's kind of shitty because, yeah, Kim Kardashian is always exuding her sexuality all over the place and people enjoy that,

and she's rich, rich, rich off of it. So why can't Luke to talk about you know, That's why I respect Frank Osan, because Frank Osan flipped it. Frank Osen was like, I'm a thing about what I want to sing. I'm about to tell y'all how much I like, yeah, and you can rock with it or you can leave it alone. And I respect that. I'm like, why why aren't you able? We got We've been hearing these these

other stories forever. Why not them again? Even more to that point, Frank did it at a time where it wasn't a convenient choice, right that, Like, I think Frank's you know, Frank probably came out if I'm remembering correctly, twenty fourteen, even it might have been that around that time with with Channel Orange and or at least preceding

Channel orangin part of that it's his first album. He doesn't there's no this isn't a guaranteed like great response from the internet and from the communities that are receiving this he could have easily been put in a bucket that that ruins his career, but he's like, nah, this is who I am. I want y'all to know who I'm singing about and what these words actually mean, or

at least some of what it means. And I'm not gonna like hide behind the facade of sort of like veiled general sex syenus in in order to get that across. I love Frank Ocean that that mixtape that he made before the album is probably one of the best pieces of musical art that I've heard. I mean, I I

love I love Frank Ocean. Everything that he does that Channel Orange album is epic, and you know, just to hear someone just being true and I think, you know, Frank Ocean is younger than I am, and to he to see someone at that age teaching somebody older and I would say people older than me because I grew up around people that were fluid and people that were queer. But it's dope. I love it, and I'm somewhere just goes it down. If I don't get it. People who

get so bothered by this stuff, like go somewhere. This is not an invitation that sit down Yeah, don't make it weird. Just enjoy the thing or or move elsewhere. But you don't. You don't have to make this your ship either. Luther sweated so that Frank Ocean could perspire there. It is. We got to put that on a T shirt somewhere. Okay, let me ask you this, because I

do think this is an interesting element to it. Right, You're introducing this Frank Ocean conversation, which I think is really important, of him making the choice to come out be public with his sexuality in a way that we haven't seen from a lot of artists, certainly not at

that point in American history. What do you then think is the root cause of Luther not feeling that same safety to do what Frank did, or at least even remotely introduced the idea that he might be not a heteronormative man performing in front of you know, women who were swooning for him. I think it's generational, Like I think, I don't think Frank Ocean felt safe at all. I think Frank Ocean took a chance and and knew you know,

the toxic masculinity has been around forever. I mean, it's connected to everything that has been a problem for all people on the planet. But I think that Luther was probably more engulfed in a generation of people that were religious because Luther did a lot of you know, a lot of music that you know, he he sang, you know, could sing a gospel song just as much as a

love song. And I think that it was generational. It was a lot of religious connection to a lot of singers from that era who who initially started in the church.

I think there was a lot of that. And I do think that the social consequences for being gay during a time when AIDS became popular and people were hearing a lot about AIDS was probably something that would deter somebody from saying they were gay because the identifying I mean, yeah, people would associate being queer with being with AIDS at that time, a gay disease is what they used to call it. And I think people would be like, no, I'm gonna just I'm gonna just roll with this, you know,

I'm gonna just not say anything. I can't imagine. I

can't imagine how hard it must have been at that time. Yeah, I think that's a super fair point, and it it makes me think about we we've done episodes on like Easy E and and even we've talked a bunch on this show about Magic Johnson and just how quickly during the periods that they were sort of their HIV positive a they get AIDS, whatever it is for them, and how quickly it turns into a conversation accusing them of being homosexual, accusing them of sort of having like these

sordid affairs with men simply because it is a quote unquote gay disease at that period, at that point in time, we're calling it something that it isn't. It doesn't need to be, and it it isn't. But that's that's what the world is. And so to your point, Luther may be making a choice to sort of like push against

that connection by simply keeping his business to himself. And especially in the hip hop community, I can't even imagine, you know, like look at the stuff that Little Nozex goes through ine and lons X pushes back and leans into it. But I mean, people are really bothered by I don't, Like I said, I don't know for the life of me why people care so much about other people sexuality, sexual preferences and identities. I don't I don't

for me. You could tell me and I identify as elemental P and that's what I want you to call me. I'll be like a elemental like crab nets, because let's go. I just don't. I'm just saying why people got so preoccupied with other people's business like that. Yeah, I do think to some extent I feel weird about this, not because I I disagree with you at all. I think you're absolutely right we should just mind our business. But

I'm nosey as funk. I do want to know what people who people are working and how they're doing it, but not because either version of it grosses me out or any version of it grosses me out, but more because I want to copy you know what I mean, Like I'm trying to do something weird with my wife and see what she's into, and like let me know.

In part of I think to your point, if we spent more time allowing people to just voice exactly who they are in a public way, we all become more liberal and comfortable in our own bodies, that we all can suddenly that our expectations shift and now it's not this scary, dangerous thing that a man presses into another man it's just like, oh, that's what y'all do. I'm gonna try that out but in my way and see if that makes me feel more whole as a person.

Yeah absolutely, if also it'll it just listen. I think that the people who continue to be afraid of the that's what it is is underneath of it. Underneath it, it's fear, because if you don't agree with the lifestyle, you know, like my example, my goal to example, I don't really like country music like that. I don't ever go to Garth Brooks page and be like yo, yo, shot is trash like I never you know what I'm saying, never do this is not my thing. I just don't

listen to country music. And I think that it is this very interesting to me how people feel the need to police others. And it has something to do with you, because the only things that I react to react to like that where there where you feel a visceral reaction for me, or it's something that it's it pokes at something that I'm feeling within myself. Sure you know what I'm saying. So lesbians can be around me having an orgy and I'm not gonna be like, oh, I'm gonna

beat everybody with a belt. This is wrong. I just be like, I'm I'm gonna go outside because y'all might get something on me, and I'm gonna I like this shirt. You know, I'm not at where I need pussy juice flying on my good show. Yeah, I'll walk away, But but do your vot you know, can videotape it, but I'm not, you know, I just I just don't understand

why it's it's such a big deal. And I do believe that because of those things, it's probably why someone like Luther who made so much money on love music that he was also protecting his bag. You know what I'm saying, like so many people, I mean, I everybody that I know when they list like top ten love songs, they always got to loop the song on the Yeah.

I even even as you're saying it, I'm thinking of top ten, like top tens in my head and like immediately here and now boom, that's right, it's up there, you know what I mean. I can't think of many that are above that. And I think you made the point earlier and that we should cover this before we run off the break. But I think it's also important you talked about safety. You talked about sort of like this, this question of whether or not people feel safe or

afraid or whatever it is. And I think part of the way that they take advantage of this, this fear and this safety is by conflating those things with religion. Right, So you make it so that if you are not following this set of rules, this this traditional set of norms, you are not only safe for your lifestyle, but you are unsafe for your eternal soul. And so all these people start to hate the idea of Luther v. Andrew's coming out and being his free of self because it

could potentially damn their eternal soul. And that's a pretty fucked up weight to put on both ends of things, that both the people that are hating and the person that is hated. Yeah, but you know, you know, and that's funny because it's it's simp a critical to me. I grew up in the church. I'm like, y'all know what, y'all don't ever feel that condemned when you find out other people are sucking before they get married, you know

what I'm saying, that they're fornicating. You know, y'all make jokes about the pastor fucking the lady and the pew and cheating on his wife. You don't worry about your your eternity. When you make jokes about side bitches. You're not like, oh, you got a side bach. You're not saying, oh a burn in hell because I got a side bitch. Why it's a fascination with this stuff that that is really intriguing to me. That it's like, why are you

worried about it so much? If God is who you say God is, then God gonna take care of it. Why are you talking to guy's business? Yeah, And it's not like God was like, yo, these you can't break, but these other ones you you go crazy. You can you can eat out the neighbor as much as you want, but don't you get or suck the neighbor's dick. That's how dare you? It's like, now, it's like all this is and you're all sinners, So figure out how to

be the best version of yourselves. That doesn't really matter until you know your your rooster comes to calling. You know that's and that's quoted from the Bible. Your rooster comes to calling, I think is that's in job somewhere you know what, The scariest scripture I ever saw in the Bible was about clergy. Like the Bible was scary, right, the Bible said, better you not be born than to

mislead my sheep. Like that just creep me out. So so that means that all y'all people that are walking around leading the people and telling the people and condemning, you know, the poor gay feller in the church that's scared to come out and you condemning him, the consequences seem like they might be a little worse for you. Better you not be born an abortion, right, He's like, bitch, I'd rather you didn't exist than trick a bunch of

people into believe in some bullshit exactly. So, I don't know what y'all doing out there, but I'm gonna tell y'all stop stop, you better stop. All right, We're gonna take a break. We'll be back with more Ida Rodriguez and more, my mama told me. And we are who sees, Yeah, we're back here with more Ida rodre Yes, more, my

mama told me. We're still talking about God Damn. Luther Vandros arguably the greatest the male singer of all time, and his difficult, difficult history with coming out and being honest and honest. What is honest sharing with the world what he what he truly felt in his heart, which is that he wanted to kiss some boys. He wanted to to hug and kiss some sweet men. I didn't have to make that sound silly. I could have respected

it and and been more decent to it. But you know this is where I'm at Ida, this is how I behave Hell. Yeah, let's jump into some of this research because I do think some of this is It's not gonna blow your mind. I'll be I'll be honest with you up front, because all of the research more or less confirmed what we already know to be true or to be allegedly true about Luther Vandro's but it will, I think, introduce some questions that I would love to hear a bunch of your perspective one, because I do

think they are somewhat challenging questions. So so let's launch in. It seems to me that a fair amount of everything I found sort of confirms what we already know to be true, is that Luther Vandro spent the the whole of his fifty four years on this planet before he died in two thousand five, having to keep a secret about what he actually felt, which is that he was

a homosexual man singing about men. That that seems to be confirmed, and it's largely confirmed by a bunch of other celebrities and peers in the industry that like a lot of his friends, came forward in the wake of his death to share the information that Luther was secretly gay,

dose snitch as bitches. You can't even trust somebody you die, So that to me is the core of the question that this introduces that I really would love to hear your thoughts on, because there is a laundry list, a literal laundry list of celebrities who come for who have come forward talking about their relationships, not sexual relationships, but just closeness to Luther and the secrets that they shared between the two of them. And I'm wondering what is

the responsibility in all of this? Do they do they owe it to him to keep his secret and keep it going? Should they? Should they feel okay sharing his secret? I want to know what you think. You know what I think that if it was a secret, you should

have kept it. And I'm almost curious to think how relevant these people are, who would say, who would tell the secret and see if that would get them some hits, because you know what I'm saying, like, let's say you had a a sit com in the eighties and nobody checks for you no more, they put a microphone in your face, but actually they skipped past you to somebody who's relevant on the red carpet, and you're like, you know what, nothing was gay And then they get the

camera into them and that and they're like, oh, okay, all right, yeah, go wait a minute, you ain't gotta keep walking, come back, don't step and repeat, just to step this way. So I think that that's interesting and too if he didn't want you to know when it was when he was alive, what would be the benefit of telling somebody after his passing. Yeah, that and that was one of the things that I sort of struggled with even as I was reading some of the sort

of like breakdowns the pieces of information. I found. One of the first people that I bumped into who sort of talked about Luther sexuality and he does remain a pretty relevant person at least in pop culture is Lenny Kravitz. Lenny Kravitz wrote in his book, and this is I think it starts to connect to some of what you're saying,

is that he waited until he had an autobiography. He's putting together a memoir that he's putting together, and then he talks about a relationship that day that Lenny Kravitz he was a roommate in the early parts of his career with this dude, David Lastly, who was a writer, producer and worked closely with Luther and Lenny, says that in the conversations he heard Luther had had with David Lastly, he understood Luther to be a very deeply sad and lonely person who was not able to ever come out

and you know, express his sexuality in the way that he wanted to. That's what happens when your ex wife marries Kyle Jogo. You know what I'm about to tell it all? Yeah, yeah, I just think that I like Lenny Kravitz. I'm a Lenny Kravitz fan, but I I just think that that lacks integrity. Like if if you knew, I mean, if you if this is based on your suspicions and you want to tell somebody about it, and this is what your your speculation is. I guess it's

one thing. But if it was a secret, and you knew it was a secret, what's the point in telling anybody now? Like what you're gonna out the people he was with, Like, it just brings pain to the people who love him. Yeah, and I think even more confusing, challenging. The harder part of this decision is that this wasn't even firsthand information from Luther. Right, you are overhearing a private conversation in phone calls and then sharing that information

in a public way. And it's like, all right, if Luther told you personally, maybe there's more of a gray area and you sharing this as a part of your personal journey. But for you to just be like, hey, you know what I heard on the phone one time when I was chilling at the crib, is that's that's dangerous? You know what I mean? Yeah, it's not cool. I don't think that's cool. Yeah, Okay, here's another example. Bruce Valanche. You know Bruce Valanche. You're familiar with Bruce Valance. He's

a dude who's guests, a comedian, a comedic writer. He's always in a scooter. He looks real crazy. You'll recognize him as soon as you see him. But Bruce Valanche, for some reason was very close friends with Luther Vandross. I had no idea. I don't I don't know why these two people would have ever looked at each other and wanted to hang out other than the fact that they were both. I guess Bruce is gay and Luther was allegedly gay, so maybe it was some you know,

cool gay ship that they were hanging out on. Either way, Bruce Valanche says that Luther spent the entirety of his life and career deeply in the closet. That those are the words that that he he used, and sort of what says that his friend constantly wished that he could have had a boyfriend. That's what he talks about, is that by the end of his career and life, he just really wanted a boyfriend. Should get in line, Bruce, Luther,

we all just want a boyfriend. Like I said, I think it's kind of it's kind of corny to tell on somebody after they you know that, because that there are no consequences for that, like from the person. Yea, you feel like Luther's cousins. The need they need to go get all these people talking about Luther. They need to go put hands on all these people. Yeah, just beat the ship out of Bruce Valande, break his big

as red glasses, you know what I mean? Why you know what I'm saying, Like, why y'all snitching on the alley like this is? I don't know. I just think I wouldn't do that too. I mean, any of my friends that they passed away, I wouldn't tell none of the secrets. Yeah, I do think, And you made this point earlier, and I think it's one worth repeating. Is that.

The The other sort of like frustrating part of this is is if Luther were allowed to be his free of self, him wanting a boyfriend wouldn't even be newsworthy, right, Like that's not an interesting tidbit about a legendary performer and singer. That's just some ship we all go through. But because he wasn't allowed to be himself, this very small, almost meaningless piece of information now becomes coveted and treated as like gossip. And that's crazy. Yeah, I know it's

You're right, it's true. And you know, like you know, all these women who they got whole reality shows trying to find a man. You got men and our reality reality shows trying to find a woman. They've got all kinds of different versions of this show. Naked and people and running through the jungle trying to find and made people going to an island, detesting each other with sex, you know, nineteen Bitches in the House trying to get a roll from corny Dude every week on the Monday.

They are all kinds of versions that and you know, people find it is entertained that they're not writing think pieces about it. Or but poor Luther, who just wanted to be with somebody that loved him and that he loved, couldn't even live out loud because it could affect his career. Yeah, you know, get kicked out of the church or whatever

it was, had to live. That's just foolishness. We talked too much time on our hands to be worried about other people's business, truly, And and can I just say that that if they changed the name of The Bachelor to nineteen Bitches in the House, I watch, I would watch. I know they lose a lot of viewers who we are sensitive about language and the weird misogyny cooked into calling people bitches. But no, I would watch nineteen Bitches in the House. That sounds like a great show to me.

And I'm subscribing immediately and listen in the true fashion of pause. I am a woman. Therefore I am owning the word bitch, and I can call myself a bit and I can use the word bit and oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not shaming you at all. I'm nearly representing the American audience who's gonna sit there and go how you can't call people bitches. It's like, listen, you don't know which bitch I was talking about when I said the word I was talking about some boy

bitches too, the boy bitches. We all bitches, and there's nineteen of us. So the other person, and I think this gets into a slightly more complicated and maybe complicated this and even the right way of approaching this, but it is a slightly more complicated conversation, is that the other person who has been very public about quote unquote outing Luther was Patti LaBelle. Patti LaBelle, who was dear

friends with Luther. Luther actually at one point was the president of her fan club, which I didn't know that that, like he was the official president of the Addie LaBelle Flan Club. But she went on watch What Happens Live The Andy Cohen Show, and he asked Andy Cohen asked about Luther's sexuality, at which point Patti LaBelle talked about it.

She said, you know, I think that, but she said, basically, he did not want his mother to be although she might have known, but he wasn't gonna come out and say it to the world. And he had a lot of lady fans and he told me he just didn't

want to upset the world. And so I guess my question is, what responsibility do you think a person like Andy Cohen has, who is a homosexual person who does understand, maybe better than most, the dangers of outing a person, be they alive or dead, to not even introduce this question to an old lady who's probably just gonna be like, oh, yeah, I know about that, and you know, say some stuff

on TV. Well, you know, Andy Cohen is part of this entity that makes a lot of money off of the exploitation off of black people and people, you know, like black women, and these shows that perpetuate you know, stereotypes and shows some ugliness, which is real and everybody, not just black women and women of color. But I just think it's interesting that a gay man would take that well, you know, that's disappointing to say, what about like, why would you do that? Why would you do that

to that black man man? Why do you do that? Like when you when you yourself have complaint about bigotry towards you for being a gay man, why would you do that? Yeah, that's part of the problem. That's what we pushed back against, right, is that whole idea that people who are you know, homosexual, people who are queer have to have to live in this place of secret who perpetuates So asking somebody who do you think such

a sense was gay? It's part of the problem. Yeah, And I'm so glad you said that, And I think you put it in words that I wasn't even sure

I knew how to put it in. But I do think that this sort of leads us into a great example of where intersectionality ain't intersecting, right that, Like you're talking all this ship about like wanting to be progressive for your community, wanting to protect the people that live the life that you live, but when it comes to another person's experience who doesn't look like you but does then diagram with you slightly, you're unable to see them

with the same sensitivity and care that you probably would have seen a white counterpart. A word. You just said it a word. And that is why, you know, even when it comes to the argument of women, you talk about black women and brown women and white women who teither. You know, they jumped back and forth between being victims and the oppressor, like when you see it in the in the dynamic of the l g b t Q

I A plus community, it's the same thing. It's like, you know that that someone said to me it was my son because we were talking about the l g b t Q community and this complexity that we talked about, and he's like, yeah, because white men can belong to that oppressed group. So in that group there is a

hierarchy where they sit at the top. So that's why, you know, we have to talk about intersectionality and we have to honor it because the truth of it is is that you get to son Luther andros when you're a gay white man. You know what I'm saying, And can you imagine if somebody would. I mean, you just think about it, like if it would have been the other way and they did it to him, nobody would

have let that stand even for a second. And furthermore, there was some pushback in Patty saying what Patty said, but to your point, I think the larger and then it's unfair. I don't know that we have the right to decide whose fault is. It's what right. I don't know that Patty went on there being like, you know what I'm about to do is out my boy. I think Patty was just like, oh, we drunk, we're talking ship. Yeah,

I'll talk ship with you. And the reality is it was somebody choosing to be messy and a lady went in the dirt with him. But in doing that, you know, she becomes the target rather than he, And I think Andy knows that before he even asked the question. Yeah, it's easy to come for her because there are no consequences for attacking an older lack woman. But if you're gonna come for this white Jewish man, there will be some consequences. Yes, I think I think that's fair to say.

So the other thing that this got me sort of cooking on as we're asking this question of whether or not it's okay to out person in their death, I ended up stumbling on this article about Whitney. It was an article called Whitney, Houston and the Ethics of Posthumous Outing, And one of the things that it talks about is the fact that Whitney, who was allegedly a bisexual woman,

was outed by her ex husband. Right that, like Bobby Brown doesn't interview with us weekly when he is then working on his memoir called Every Little Step, which I know you all have in your homes. I know every single one of you listening is has already read Every Little Step, so there's no reason for us to plug it. But Every Little Step, the Bobby Brown story is available

for your reading if you so choose. But Bobby is working on his memoir and he then explains that Whitney was bisexual and had a relationship with her for her assistant, Robert. And I'm wondering if that falls in the same category for you of somebody just trying to take advantage of they're they're sort of waning celebrity, or if this is something more complicated because they are in a relationship or had been in a relationship. Uh, and we're married, have

children together. All of that. Well, this is a really uh, this is a touchy space because I know Bobby and I know his wife Alicia, and I don't think that he First of all, I don't think Bobby Brown is the king of New Edition, whether you want to admit it or not. And I know I'll probably get pushed back from that, but he's probably him is the most dynamic one they come out, you know, for all the reasons that he was a bad boy of R and B. He had the issues, he married the superstar singer. They

you know, you gotta lay low. They got all the you know, they got all the they got the Diane saw your interview like, he's the most dynamic thing to come out of there. I've been in the presence of Bobby Brown for a birthday party and he was not with Whitney anymore, and I remember him singing on stage and started he started crying and he said he missed her. And from what I know, and I don't know first time because we don't talk about it. We're not that close.

We see each other in passing. We've known each other for years, but we were not like close, we're not like homies. I believe Bobby Brown adored the ship out of wit and he loved her in a way that was, you know, toxic, painful, deep deep though, And I do I do think that that him sharing that. And I didn't even know he had a book. I didn't know about every little step, but the fact that he uh probably is talking about it because he's still processing that.

And you know, you have to think, Bobby Brown is married to Whitney Houston, the mother of his daughter who also passed away, you know what I'm saying. So there's a lot of pain and all of that things, that whole thing. And I did hear a lot about Whinney Houston being bisexual. I heard it when I first moved to l a from one of from one of these dancers that danced in the videos and was like, she's you know, he called out a bunch of names of women.

He was like, they're always talking about the men, but he was like this woman, this woman, and this woman. They turned off all the girls. And it was very interesting to hear his list, but he was I want.

I went and found him. He was in all their videos and I was like, he might be making it up, but he's definitely been around these people, So I don't think that he would do that too maliciously or to try to bring attention to himself, because I think, I mean, Bobby, you give him the mic and a drink and he can find it. He can find a way. He don't have to even talk about with me. But they say in Jurassic Park, Bobby finds a way, you know. I

think that was just rooted in his pain. I do think that he adored that woman, and I don't think that he would do that to try to get, you know, attention off of her, not not the Bobby Brown that that I've met, you know, I got you. It introduced a even more complicated question in my head, not just

of whether or not his intentions. And this isn't even about Bobby at this point, but more just generally about this This entire idea is is more about the question at least that sort of like came to life, is the question of public responsibility, or rather how much these celebrities even owe to the public in relation to their

sexuality and sexual identity. Right. So, for example, in the article, some people are arguing that it's obviously awful to out somebody posthumously that like, if they weren't ready to tell the world when they were alive, they're not suddenly ready to tell the world just because they passed away, and we should respect that. But then there are other people who argue that by sharing these people's stories, you are bringing more light to the communities that they potentially could represent.

Right and specifically they talk about Ed cock of of New York, former mayor of New York City. He dies and in two thousand thirteen, and then it becomes exposed, and maybe it was exposed the entire time, maybe that everybody knew, similar to you know, a Luther Vandros's kind of situation, that he was homosexual, that he had homosexual relationships.

But one of the things that that happened is that during his time in as mayor, he's constantly getting all this pushback from AIDS activists basically saying, why won't you speak up for the community that you could represent here they're calling this a gay disease and you, a gay man, should be out and open about how this isn't a gay disease. And if you support me, you support the unity, said you're hurting with by saying all of these things. And Ed never said anything, and he never stepped out

of his way to protect these communities. And so I guess my final question to you before we we run off to another break, is what do you think about that? In public responsibility? Does Ed oh the gay community anything or is he just meant to like keep rocking the way he wants to rock And it doesn't matter one way or the other. No, he doesn't owe anybody anything.

And I know people are going to probably push back on this, but nobody knows what Ed's emotional or psychological state was, where he had process, what where he was in terms of his own sexuality, and what if that man wasn't ready to deal with that and came out and they got dealt with some crazy stuff and ended

up killing himself because of it. You know, Like it's just the fact that the public feels and entitled to people's business because people have some sort of even as a public figure, his responsibility to his community is to do the work that is described in that job description. It is not that he owes his personal life to anybody else, you know, And there are a lot of people dealing with a lot of different issues. Are you

demanding that straight men tell you about their affairs? Are you demanding that straight men tell you about all the stuff that they're doing or straight women. It's just it's only when it comes to that community that people feel entitled to know, like even the terminology we're gonna out you, you know what I mean, Like like there are consequences for people finding out about it, and that why wouldn't you be petrified? Like you don't know what it's gonna be,

you know. And his responsibility with what's going on with AIDS was to make sure that policy was in place and that it was enforced and that, you know, whatever, those responsibilities, those responsibilities connected to office. Anything that he does is above and beyond. So if you decided to say I am and I'm gonna speak up for this community because you know because of this, this, this, then that's that should be admirable. But that's not something it's

not required, right, I I think that's fair. I think they're The responsibility a person in office has, in my mind, is to be careful and caring about every single person that they represent. It's not necessarily to just place preference on the communities that they're deeply connected to. And ideally, the way that you represent all of these communities and care about all of these people is you are connected in small communities and so you do the extra work

to make sure that everybody is is fairly represented. That said, it doesn't mean that, like, like you said, there are a lot of great leaders who love to cheat on their wives or their husbands or whatever it is, and that's not they don't owe more to the non monogamous community simply because that's who they represents. Yeah, they were all doing what we can to to protect each other

as best we can. And he he clearly didn't feel comfortable telling everybody is business and so maybe he doesn't have to to suddenly out himself just because he's a famous person. I mean, are all women who have had abortions that are in office have to do? They have the obligations to tell people that they have abortion when they're dealing with abortion, you know, Like it's it's just like that's what drove like Bill Clinton to say he

didn't exhale or he didn't inhale or whatever. It's just that, you know what I'm saying, All of that this Salem attitude towards people, and and and feeling like we old that you know that the general public is entitled to the t It's just a function of you know, how celebrity culture has become so toxic in this country, and you know, and it leads into politics because politicians are celebrities, whether we want to admit it or not. And it's

just it's just gross. It's just gross. Yeah, let people's business be their business. Let let everybody do their own freaky ship. And if they want to tell them about the freaky ship, you know, I'm happy to hear it. God damn do I want to hear about it. But but if not, that's okay. I'm on my business. I'm with it. All right. We're gonna say one more break. We'll be back with more, id Rodriguez and more, my mama told me. And we are back. We're not gonna

let Joe Biden and Kamala Harris cut America's me. That's that. Yeah, we're back here with more Ida Rodriguez more. And my mama told me. We're still talking about Luther Vandros and his secret that he took to his grave and the one that Bruce Valance would not allow him to keep Bruce had to tell people that Luther Vandross was gay. And I don't, none of them, neither of us know why.

You know that motivation is I don't. I don't know, Like maybe even the fact that they were friends seemed so off, and that's because of what we you know, how we perceived people, and we're like, how do these two people know each other? But like I said, it's also it's just that Andy Cohen thing, like I just

don't think it's cool. Yeah, I did that. I think, especially coming from a quote unquot white friend, you have extra care to probably take in outing somebody of a different race, and you know, a black person specifically in terms of like what's going to happen with his community, with his relationships with his mother, no less, you know,

his mother is this deeply religious person. And that was part of what Patti LaBelle said, was that, like it was his mother's religious perspective that kept Luther in the closet in the first place. And the last thing she needs to learn it from, or the last person she needs to learn it from, is a goofy looking motherfucker like Bruce Valanche. You know, I would when I run into him, I'm gonna tell him he gotta recite the first ten lines from Never Too Much? Uh? I like that? Yeah?

Make him. Make him say it on one knee so he really earns it, you know, because it's gonna take him a minute to get down there. Bruce ain't built for for kneeling. But up he he owes us an apology, he owes Luther and as an apology. Okay, let's let's play a game. This is This is a fun game. It's a brand new game that that I I've cooked up for this podcast. It's called make It makes Sense. Your thoughts create your reality. Well you already knew that, Yeah,

you still live a life that you dread. Make it makes sense. This is a brand new game where I am going to introduce to you a conspiracy theory I had never heard of, and it's specifically a conspiracy theory that comes from the Dominican Republic. It's a conspiracy theory that that y'all over in the Dominican are rocking with. And I would love for you to make it make sense for me, help me understand what's happening in this scenario.

So apparently in twenty nineteen, there was a string of deaths from a hotel where six different tours visiting the Dominican uh suddenly died. They just they died in these

mysterious ways after drinking from their mini bar. And apparently more than a few people started to speculate that this was a serial killer working the Dominican Republic, that there was somebody out intentionally trying to kill tourists as they were moving and shaking around the Dominican And what I would love for you to do, ITAs tell me what's happening here. What do you think the real mystery is from these people who are drinking from this mini bar

and all dying in these mysterious, tragic ways. So that's funny. I never heard that one. I'll tell you what I heard. I heard it was a governmental ploy to try to keep American people from going to the Dominican Republic. Because whoa hold on, wait a minute, Oh, this sounds like you're about to spit some ship. This I never heard this before. This is brand new to me, and all of this brand new to me. Can we do some some talk that talk? Can you bring it all down

in thirty seconds? Yeah? No, this is what I heard. Okay, here we go. I'm gonna press the button and then you go crazy. So I heard that the Dominican Republic and Haiti are on the island of Espanola. So France is you colonized Haiti Spain commonized the Dominican Republic and Haiti owes France for slavery. They owned for being the ones to kick down the door for liberation. But what I heard was that there's this big old governmental choice so that they can take over the island. That's why

they're letting these people struggle. But tourism generates a lot of money, so they were trying to deter tourists from going there, and that's why they were doing that, because it would keep the economy from flowing with the tourism dollars and let the country crumble so that they can go in and gentrify it and rehollow Holy sh it,

Wait a minute, that's cool, mother goddamn it. So you're saying that they are this is an effort, or at least the theory is that this this is an alleged effort to tank the island too across the board because

he ain't doing too great on its own. It's the between the funked up economy, that the damage that is intentionally being done from other colonizing places, and certainly like the earthquakes and hurricanes and ship that hit that side of the island, it's already struggling, which is alar is another conspiracy that those are done by those heart machines, and that those those are those are man made to cause destruction on the islands so that they can go

ahead and take it. Yeah, we've we've talked about that a little on the podcast before that hades fucked up weather and earthquakes and all that ship as a results of weather control machines that the governments are intentionally creating. But to your larger point that there there might be a a real effort, a conspiratorial level effort by all of these countries or by a powerhouse country to make

these islands tanks so that they can rebuild them. It's basically big ass six flags for for people to go and visit. Yep, that's exactly what fuck big six flags. That's funny. What what do you? What do we do? Is there anything that can be done about stuff like this? Is this just what it is? And we gotta eat a dick after all of this, you know, I think about that every day of my life. What do we do? Like, is there something we can really do? We just not. I don't think we'll we'll do we'll do it. I

think that we're not gonna We're not revolutionaries. Were some punk as bitches like we like we are revolutions are on Twitter? Like, ain't nobody? Like when I saw that what do they call themself? That no fucking around coalition? I was like, whoa ship? They rolled up in some mountain with guns and fatigues, but it was like, what three hundred of them? I was like, you gonna take a whole? Like you know what I'm saying. We need

more people like that. And that's why I'm like, probably nothing, because we're also not who people are, Like, I ain't watching the NFL, and then you I walk down the street and all I hear is people screaming watch the NFL games, and people that I know that said they were not gonna watch the NFL. So I think, I don't know, I don't. I don't know. If they were not gonna stop going to Target, we're not gonna stop Starbucks. So not. I think we're gonna eat that day the

god damn it man. And that's it. You're I think you're right, because at the end of the day, even the COVID that that fucking you know, the minute men that you're referring to, who like are willing to take up arms and and take on a government, they could only find three hundred because there's only three hundred people in that place that are that principled and believe in that ship that much. The rest of us are living

pretty passive lit us. We were like, yeah, I don't I don't like what the government is doing, but like, I don't know, bro, I'm not about to start for this ship, so I'm good. I don't want to get shot. I don't want to put myself in any line of fire, So go crazy, government, you know what I mean. It's like you just like, you know what, I'm gonna going to Disneyland this weekend, Like you just don't. And and it's it's not that you don't care, it's that it's

so overwhelming it feels hopeless. Sure, yeah, I think if even if you are a passionate person, there are so many problems in the world that it's it's too challenging to pick a thing and just focus on that, because then you're like ignoring a ton of other responsibilities you probably also have in terms of protecting people, are taking down the evils of the world around us. Goddamnit just

so overwhelming. So you're like, oh, go get that's the weepy meal that make now, and that's the biggest lesson we can walk away with. I think if we gotta send people away with anything, if you feel sad, if you feel overwhelmed by everything that's happening in the world, get that sweetie meal at the at McDonald's. You get the negats and the big Mac. You dip that in some chocolate like that nasty bitch. Does you gotta go crazy with the sweetie meal at McDonald's. Well, all right,

I think we did it. I think I think we did what we could today. Could you tell the people at home where they can find you and what cool ship you have going on? Sure they can find me on HBO Max. The name of the special is fighting words. Don't tweet me, don't at me because I don't read none of it. Uh So, don't waste your time and you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at funny a I d a funny either, And that's it. All

of the stuff is not real until it happens. Hell yeah, well we'll follow her watch the special November four Fighting Words and as always, you can follow me at at Langston Herman and if you so choose, please send us your drop, send us your messages, review, subscribe to whatever the funk you're supposed to do to the podcast, and you can send us everything in my mama pot at gmail dot com. Uh, and that's everything. That's all I know. Okay, bye, bitch.

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