N*ggas With Hope (with Idris Goodwin)

yours were racist? Who money? Actual stuff? I can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep, there it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where we died deep, deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories and we finally worked to prove that Soldier Boy had to wear those giant bathing a clothes in his videos, apparently because of that giant penis he's

been lugging around all these years. We thought the man was on cocaine, but nope, it's just the behavior of a man whose penis is half the size of his leg. Also, he's on cocaine. The these are the rumors, the facts. I'd say that I'm spreading. I'm your host, Lankston Kerman, coming in uh foolishly as always. I don't think I've ever come in in a way that it's respectable or or would make my mother proud. And yet I still use her for all of the branding of this podcast.

I've attached her face to the logo without her constant and I planned to keep it that way despite any for strations that may cause in her personal life. I am excited today because my guest, he is not a foolish man like myself. He is He is a person who who I would credit as one of my earliest inspirations as an artist. We we met years and years ago, back when I was a budding poet in Chicago. He was one of my first teachers. He is a performer,

he's a poet, he's a playwright. He does all the ship and he he inspired me very early on, and he continues to inspire so many And he has a play. One of his his plays, How We Got On, is actually premiering at the Sacred Sacred Fools Theater Company in l a And it's January February nineteen two, So you motherfucker's better go see it. He's he's a dear friend. He is so talented. Please give it up from my guest,

Mr Hedrids good Way Man, what a natural. I feel like I feel like you should invoice me for that was incredible. Well not only was the Let's just back it up, like so I am, I am. I'm just obsessed with Soldier Boy in general, just like this generation. I mean, you know I was, you know I was. I'm an old head, so like what Soldier was was Superman in the house or whatever. Like I was, I was at my arms crossing only with mess brother. But now he's kind of starting to enter like grumpy old

black man territory. And now I'm like, I get this, brother. He one is grumpy old black man territory. He just is continuing to to do it in young people's spaces, and so we won't flag it as grumpy old black man ship. But it's it's That's all it is is being like I did that first. I did like Drake, I was like you could hear a million black man over an aet s up and go yeah, yeah, that's right. Isn't that good? That's d no, you know he like

shot somebody Soldier Boy? Yeah bro, yeah no you. One of my favorite YouTube videos of all time is his recounting of the shootings that transpired. People like who tried to break into his house or something? Yeah, him, him describing the bullets flying past him like the matrix was surely groundbreaking theater, it was written a play about it is mind bloom. Yeah, what would like Hollywood stopped sleeping

on Soldier Boy, Like give this guy platform. They got to take him seriously at stand point, you gotta get him on your show. I would love that more than anything. I would love it. I don't know that we would be able to make it an entire hour, you know what I mean. It's like one of those things where you're like, funk, I would love to talk to Soldier Boy, and then you talked to him for fifteen minute You're like, funk, why didn't I talk to Soldier Boy? That would have

like more parts than trapped in the closet. It would be like are oh my gosh, Anyway, that's longer than I think I expect to talk about Soldier Boy today. Well, we have a lot of nonsense to talk about. But but the soldier boy. Thing is not a terrible segue into the conspiracy theory that you sent our way, and it is not a nonsense conspiracy theory. It's actually a

pretty haunting one if true. You said, my mama told me there was a secret meeting between prison industrialists and members of the recording industry to encourage the sell against

the wrap. Yeah. More, it's just all right. So I consider this like the sort of hip hop generation Willie Lynch papers, because there's like, remember, we all remember where we were when we first read the Willie Lynch let and then then and then when we found out it might not be true, it was like staggering, but then you're like, oh, they don't want you to know it's true,

you know. And so similarly, this is like the hip hop generation, you know, just because there's truth in it, it's not hard to it's not hard to to to to fathom at all. And even if it's not true, it's kind of still true, like you know, mean something variation of that, like it happened on the spin in the on the on the spiritual level of like the collective consciousness level, like they were talking. They may not have been talking to each other, but they's talking to

each other. Yeah, yeah, I you know what, that's how they get It's it truly is I think you're absolutely correct that it It truly is one of those things where it's like, I don't know that we've ever it's it's something that's been in the lexicon, the hip hop sort of like a stratosphere for forever, but it isn't necessarily something anybody has ever been able to pin down and say for sure, it happened on this state this

time with these parties. But you can kind of see the product of everything that people have been theorizing for years, and it's not it's not so far fetched that you think this is impossible, this cannot have happened. Yeah, no, it's it's I mean because when you think about the amount of people who are not at all anyway related what shape or form to the world of the streets, you know, and how many millions of dollars they've made like off of it, you know what I mean, it's

like and it was a concern. It was like a notice noticeable shift where it's like I remember, it went from like hey, there's kidding playing, there's the Beast Boys and you know, there's in w A and then suddenly it was just like everybody had a mac Elevin or was named Maclevin or you know so but then something. But you could argue, what, that's just commerce, you know, like everybody there's waves and there's but it hasn't really

dropped off, like we're still out here so predominant. Like you know, even the Kanye backpack years were sort of sandwiched with like a different It was more of a shift in the way that we talked about, like, uh, I guess criminality. It wasn't like gangster rap as much. It became like hustle wrap. But hustle wrap still was like I'll murder your grandma, but i'll murder your grandma was styled I'm not like kicking in the door, you know, I'll send a guy in the murder your ground. Yeah,

he speaking on the track. He won't be out long, but he's gonna wrap real quick, and he's he'll be here in a minute. There he is. Yeah. Man, So I so I don't know, I'm dying to know, but I've I've when when the prop came, I mean there's so many so like I walk around, Yeah, these theories all day. So first of all, I also didn't I was like, how did I not know that you have this show? Or be like you know what I mean?

Like I was like, first of all, it was a conspiracy that I didn't know that you had to show. I was like, first of all, they know they're trying to you know. And then I and then I listened to a few episodes and I was just like, yeah, yeah, I don't I don't see what's I don't see what the conspiracy theories that this is all that is, This all feels on the notes. To me, that is one

of the more interesting journeys. And all of this is like a lot of times what it is as a black person being like this is something my mama saying, and we just have to like pretend like it's not facts. We have to like go down a train where it's like who your mama wild? When she theorized that the government had bad intentions for black people? Why did she come up with this stuff? Wow? Look a here, I just found it the article. But no, anyway, so I'm

all over the place. But yeah, man, so I just but I remember it was what I first encountered it well, that's what I was gonna ask you, what do you remember the sort of like time period where you first started to say he year that this secret meeting had had taken place, So this was earlier. I remember, this was very early on and like this it's post friends Sterre for sure. It might have been early Facebook. So somewhere between my Space and Facebook just started in the earth.

So this and this is like pre this is like when conspiracy theory started creeping into good natured social media, you know. So I wasn't as like and going somewhere with that bullshit, you know, Like I was just like because again, like I said that, it's like it's not so far fetched, and you know you heard it in the music, like in the Dead Press era Caress One.

I mean, they're always something like hip hop police, and you know, and there's always been that tension ever since uh ice Cube tour into Jerry Heller, you know, and like sort lifted the veil back on the sort of racial dynamic of the record company owner and the and the rapper you know, and like who's really who's really the who's yeah, and uh so this this just this was just like fulfilling all of the the fantasy, you know, just like what you imagine happens behind those closed doors,

Right yeah. I always think about conspiracy theories as sort of like, uh, you know, I don't believe that marijuana is any version of a gateway drug, but I do think the conspiracy theory kind of is that, like it truly only takes one to to really crack you open enough that you go, well, if that's true, A lot of these other things potentially could be true, or it might lead me at least to consider them in a

way that I might not have considered them before. And I think in that way, this one probably for a lot of people. And and maybe like to your point, the ice cube of it all or whatever it is, there are these small moments in hip hop where you go, hey, that's fucked up, you know what I mean, Like, that's

not how you're supposed to treat people. And then you go you then you you're on my Space one day and you read this this supposed letter and you're like, whoa, if this is if that okay, now everything's real and and this is all a grand conspiracy theory. But you just remind me there is another level to it too, which is the guilt factor in hip hop, right, especially if you're like a person of color and black person especially, you love hip hop because you love you you know,

you love all the shades and colors to it. And then and then you know and you love Spice one and you love confidence once one it and you love you know, you loved fifty right, and then you read this and you suddenly you feel like a little guilty. So in a way, it almost feels like did see the Lors Tucker and the black conservatives cooked this up to be? Like so you're just playing into the white

man play? Is it? Is? It? Is? It? Like crazy Cosby kind of like you know, you you guys got pulled pants kind of because you're just playing right into the devil. It's like when you remember when you were like in in a high school, like in a school like mostly white school, and then with the black like administrator or assistant principal or teacher or whatever, and you be cutting up and then they see you and they like single you out and be like, yeah, they're they're

doing that. We had we have higher standards for you, brother bulls. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's just like I see yeah, yeah, just not a gag. But you can't. You can't do it like that. You know, you know they don't respect you. Right, So now I wonder is this was this actually was the story actually cooked up by conservative black folks? WHOA, I don't that's heavy. I don't know. I don't want

to believe I do. Wait a minute, that's I think that's a legit question to be asking, is is who is the the creator the source of this material, because like you said, nobody's ever been able to pin down the participants here. That's what's always sort of been this like nebulous group of like powerful people much it's a it's an illuminati, just a taste of music illuminati that

sort of like came up with this idea. And to your point, maybe this is just a bunch of conservative black folks who were mad at bone thugs being like, I know how we can get them. I know, I know the plan. We're not against rap, against wrappers, but we are against those thugs anyway. So I don't know. I don't want to believe it. But you know, to your point that like you know, that's crazy, Like when you you said that, you're like, we don't know who was at that, Like, what would you do if you

were just Rando at a party? Right? Yeah, if you were just like at a dinner party or something and somebody was like, hey, you know what was that that meaning? Like what would you get in that moment? What would you take a picture with? Dude? Would you punch him? Would you ask questions? I know for sure I would not punch them. I would be so curious. There's nothing in me that like like granted, they clearly are like if if in fact they are real person who really

was a part of this meeting. They are arguably as damaging to the black community as drugs, as Ronald Reagan, as a lot of things that have sort of like come to be. But I think my curiosity would far outweigh my need to like punch him in the face and then get murdered in my hotel for him later that night. There's no way you survived this year, you know what I mean? But you would you be a

legend though, You'd be a legend for sure. And they'd also like pretend like you were on drugs when you punched them, and there was you know what I mean, they paint a different story. They wouldn't be like a he out here trying to save hip hop. They'd be like, you know, yeah, they'd be like, this goddamn cracking punched one of our great white Americans. What do you think you would do? Would you? Would you? Would you ask questions? Are you punching? What are you thinking? Oh? I wouldn't.

I would not punching me that I have too many questions. At first, I wanted to prove it. I'd like, I'd like be, but I'd be like trying to get info. I'd be trying to get into So I do the old hand in the pocket press the recorder thing that happens in movies that never happens in real life because I know they always do, and then they do like the shot of the hand in the pocket, you know, and then I get, I get i'd record, and then I'd be like you weren't there? You are? And if

you was there? And who else was that? You know? I do that whole day, and then I get the hole right now to all the names, and and then like kill bill, like just just going first and a person with a sword and a jumpsuit chopping them up. But okay, but even more okay, So this is really fun though. So so, first of all, there was it was this was this black folks who like came up. Was like, which is very possible? Could this have been conservative black people who who sort of like hid behind

this ominous white group. It just was like once upon a time, because you know, black fook, we love parables, We love like parables and like that's how we that's how we school the next year, or you know, we love parables and mows. So so is it like a terrible that's one we'll just put that over here. But if it did actually happen, here's what I want to know the record exact part I get because they're like because they love it, because a gangster rap is fun.

It's not hard. It's not like, please do more of this. You're like, okay, I was gonna do it anyway, right, Yeah, when do I really want to do another X Clan album? Like, let's be honest, right, And to that point, it's but you know they're not listening. Dog, It's fine, you can shoot what Professor X like, oh super with the key another fine episode. My mama told me. It does make me think though, to that point, it's not as if

people are saying that this this secret meeting conceived gangster rap. Right, They're not saying like y'all sat down, y'all thought of this ship, you pitched it to the original murder rapper, who then made it popular. They just saw a trend in then we're like, yo, make that trend pop as opposed to this other trends that were heading in a different direction. But because crime pays, And that's what I'm wondering as I'm wondering a if this did happen, mm hmm,

how did the who made that connect? Like, was this like an A and R whose daddy like ran a prison? Was it just like a warden who just like loved gangster rap and was just like or just was like one day having his coffee in the yard and so like, guys, you know what I mean, Like we're citing gangster Rap at the bench and was just like, you know, that's the idea. Yeah, that's the dravertization. I want to see. I want to see that little reenactment with the show.

Can y'all do like a little animated I'd love to financially No, but I will say that there is something really interesting about what you're saying because at its core, what you're suggesting at least is that the person who did this might have been a fan of gangster rap,

that they are not. They're not coming from a position of of hatred, which I think is how it's always been positive to me, and sort of like, uh, I've always understood it's like, oh, this person hates black people and hates gangster rap, and they wanted to find a way to to both hurt us but also increase value for themselves. And instead you're saying like now, they were listening to this ship and they were like, play more and kill these niggers. If we can do both, everybody wins. Yeah,

let's get paid. But listen, it's more people in here. They're having a great time in the yard. You know. Yeah, that's the more complicated you see. People don't want to look at it that way, like said, everybody wants it to be you know, you know, but what it's all cutting dry, hurting hate, and it ain't. It ain't always that simple. And who was the Yeah, to go back to something you had said, yeah, who was the leak? Like who was the leaker? Was there just like somebody

undercover for you know? It was like in the room and like it's conscious or her conscious got to her and she was like, I gotta tell the world, like who was the whistle bar? Was that like just an administrative assistant who was just supposed to be taking minutes? You know? She like filed it poorly and secretly dating stuff the shocker or something silk stuttered it out somewhere

out at the bar. Well, so here's my question for you, because in the my space post front store early MySpace Facebook era, you read this about the supposed secret meeting. Are you immediately I know you're saying like you're usually not like super conspiratorial, but here you are, and you're like, this isn't that far of a stretch? Are you then taking this to your peers? Are you then like gather around, gents, I got some some ship that I want to tell

you about. Are you sort of I'm gonna sit on this and let see how much it it sort of gains in town. It definitely got like shared around may or may not have shared it my damn self, but like definitely, yes, it was a thing. It was hot for like a little minute, it didn't stay Yeah, and then it's one of those things too, were you here, and you're like, oh damn. Like Willie Lynch Letter, You're like, oh damn. And then and then like some time goes by and you don't see it, and then it comes

up again and you're like yeah. And then and then some time goes by, and then you're like it's it's being discredited as like a myth, and you're like, yeah, I kind of knew it was bullshit, right. And then and then some years ago back it comes up again. You're like, oh, this ship again, right, Like who cares? Like, yeah,

it probably did happen, who knows? Who cares? Like, you know what is it is sort of like the the the challenge of or not even the challenge, but these sort of like, uh, the excitement of youth right at the end of the day. So much of the things that I'm passionate about are really more the result of me being young and having the energy to be passionate

about them. And now, even when I see awful things that are sort of happening in the world around my community, there's a part of me that's too bored and exhausted with with all of it to even do something about it. I'm just like Yeah, no, you're right. They probably should have figured out these COVID tests, but we are. So you know what it is when when you're you know, when you're like a kid, and if you've got siblings and stuff, you know, you you've got this sense of fairness,

and you're like, that's not fair. And then we say that adults like usually do something right more or less, not all the time, like sometimes like it's not fair. It's not fair. I gotta go to work all day for you look at you know whatever. It's not fair that your daddy got gout, you know whatever. And then as you get older, you realize, like fairness is just like a concept, Like it's just like it's a lot of work to be fair, Like you know, it takes like time and and meetings and like all sorts of

stuff to get justice and fair Yeah and uh. And so whether it's true there wasn't true, it's like we'll never know. And even if we didn't know, I mean, if we got all the if we did crash that party and find you know, with Shelly white Man and what everybody, and they were like, yeah, we did it.

We had a meeting, you know, we made lots of money off of off of those those Ghetto Boys albums were probably just evolved into like, yeah, that ship was good though, like right, and that that's the crazy part, right is, at the end of the day, even if that is true, right to your point, even if we find out that all of this is true, what are you going to see that and then opt out of listening to all of these artists that help promote gangster are not going to And then and then you start

getting in the gradients where you're like, what the locks is Like they lyrical, but they're like street though, so they're not like, you know, the murders got metaphors and we can rock with them. You're like, well that's a classic though, I mean right, like, and that's the thing about this conspiracy is that like it wouldn't have been

a thing if it wasn't a thing. So the people it's not like they were like, oh we gotta like the later hose in the industry didn't go in the according and go and say we need some more this poker shit, you know, because it's hot, Like it's like it was already hot, right, No, it's it's you know you know what it is. It's high fruit, toast, corn syrup. At the end of the day, we're fucking addicted to sugar.

Whether they push it on us or they don't, they just happened to find a concentrated way to push it on us. And is that right? Absolutely not. But does that then make us some sort of like different group of people who may have been able to like never get diabetes and avoid all of this ship Probably not should taste too good, you know what I mean, we would have just sucked the corn squeeze. Yeah, yeah, Now these are facts, man, these are facts. I feel like we just we just we turned this into like a

very it's all futile kind of thing. I feel like, yeah, no, it's a little nihilist. We're not we're not. Uh, we're not giving the listeners hope yet. But maybe there's hope on the other end of this. Maybe there's something we can we can send them home with that's gonna make them feel all warm and good about their their gangster ramp. You know, we gangster rap with hope. That's that's what we're working on for the rest of this episode. In wh I think it's with Hope. I think that's got

to be the name of the episode. At this point, it's gonna be great. We're gonna take a break. We'll be back with more agres. Good morning. More, my mama told me, we are that we're not gonna let Joe Biden and Kamala Harris cut America's meet. That's dead on that. That's that all that. Yeah, we're back here. Well more,

my mama told me more agres. Good When we're still talking about the possibility that there was a secret meeting held between music exists and and prison pipeline experts who masterminded the sales of Gangster Wrapped to urban youth, do you think that with that they and this, I think it is going to help us get into some of this research that they were specifically assuming that this music

would only appeal to black and brown people. Were they Did they ever consider the possibility that there was some white child who would eventually fall in love with this music? You know, this is the real spill of it, though, I mean of of white supremacy. And I say this kind of like like like you know, it's like when you see a boxer who's like, you know, like I'm gonna go face this person, and like I know fully well, when I get in the ring, this person, they're gonna

try to murder me. Yeah, I kind of strangely respect that, but like, I got to prepare myself to face this person.

So I've gone through many phases of like kind of reconciling myself and preparing myself to face white supremacy every day, and the and the premise and what empowers me to not waiver or get into the Well, there's two sides, right, Um, is that the basis of white supremacy is the belief that, you know, anyone not white is lesser, but also that black people are inherently just violent and criminal and civilized.

So yeah, their premises that a civilized white person can listen against Rof and be like hmm interesting, entire oh interesting, you know, because they like it too. They always have, right, I always have. But you know they're so civilized and sophisticated that you know they're they're not going to they

can understand it for entertainment. But whereas Yeah, the belief was that this is just background music for our criminal activity already, and he was already out doing dry bys, and we're like, I need the right song to to be this The score not to do. So let me look through my go through my catalog, and I can't murder without a beat. I need a beat turn off that shots to COVID. Spice went on, So, yeah, I mean it's a it's a very racist, it's it's yeah,

it's steeped in in all the garbage. Yeah, it's so fast. I think that's a fantastic way of putting it, that that it's not a concern of whether or not white children we're going to listen to it because at its core, you believe that white children will not be swayed by it the same way that these poor black and brown children were inherently going to be moved by the music that they were listening to. And here's here's what super

ill too, man. I mean, if you go to the history, I mean we get if we get if we don't get right down to it. I mean you think about like chain quote unquote chain gang music, right, I mean how chain gangs that staid was like just vagrancy. It was just like we're gonna like burn your towns down, take your houses a way. You can't vote, I can't

get no damn job. And so brothers will just be walking down the street because they you know, and they would be like, Yo, you're vagrant, so I'm gonna put you on this chain gang for fifty years, right, and started singing and some white man recorded that and made money off of that. And so if you think about that, that correlation has been there from from from Jump Street.

So it but you know the other piece of it too that just occurred to me now that we're talking, is, um, do you remember that saw my acn you Got Me a Lot? Yeah? I remember. I kind of like that. I didn't like like that song, but it's like you hear it and you're like, I don't hate that song,

you know. And I remember the woman I was dating at the time saying something like they got these you know, they got they got they got these kids like you know singing that right, like singing like oh, it's cool that like you know, prison prison, that prison aesthetic started coming into the music videos or like d Block and like you know what I mean, like the Crance. I mean, there's so so that aesthetic and that that correlation has

always been there. But I think the thing we can't ever lose sight of is really like there's always been that correlation and that's who's I mean, you know, they make the bread off of the numbers right in the black and brown and so we're joking and because it is kind of the theory, but yeah, I mean, the real spill of it is just like whether this was true or not true, again, it's true, Like you know, it reminds what you're saying, reminds me so much of that,

and they I realized it was very much a response to what was already a trend of like in the in the mid nineties of selling like literal like prison jumpsuits has like fashion and then there's that Fresh Prince episode where like Will like gets his hair twisted, eyes like the prison jumpsuit, and Uncle Phil tells them, like, you're looking like a gangster. This is gonna like lead you down the wrong path, and then he ends up getting into some like weird like police alteration because of

the way that he looks. And it was all meant to be this important allegory to teach us to be more responsible, I think, with the way that we like carried ourselves in society. And it's all a fucking yucky lesson, do you know what I mean? Where It's like we're shaming in a lot of ways the people who are merely responding to a choice that a bunch of capitalists at a much higher level exactly decided, you know, they

made choices. And then we go like, man, if only you wouldn't have put that jumpsuit on and twisted Jay stayed out of trouble. Yo, did you see? Um? This

totally rando? But I've been just telling it, you know, bring us up everywhere because I thought it was, like the best thing I saw last year was that Colin Kaepernick show, that Colin in real life, Yo, Colin and black and White, Colin in Black and White and that whole I love how like the first episode was all about hair and like him wanting to get the braids and look like AI and as parents being like, yo, you you look like a thug. Like that was the

I've never seen that on TV. But then you brought up this fresh Prince drain and I'm like, wow, it's kind of a similar thing of just like the way you do your which is so silly, right, like yeah, and it's it truly at its core, right, It's the the irony of it all is you look like a thug because a bunch of people outside of your community

created those associations, not because thugs created those associations. I know thugs that that where you know, fucking belly tops like they're truly thugs coming all forms, all created these associations. All right, Let's jump into some of this research because I think I think some of this is going to be helpful both for us and the listeners to ground this conversation. The original While this obviously is a conversation, I think that's circulated, as we said, for years and

years around the hip hop community. This source that I could find at least that that sort of sites where this official conversation started came from a supposed letter, an anonymous letter sent to the site hip hop is Read on April fovelve Is, when apparently the official letter was sent, and this anonymous letter claimed to be from a person who was at the supposed meeting in nine where a number of music decision makers met at a a secret location.

It was a home right outside of l A twenty five to thirty of them all joined together, which that was a larger number than I think I had ever anticipated. I thought it was like a more like eight to twelve kind of energy, but it was twenty five to thirty music executives and then five people who they said were extremely anti social and that none of them recognized.

And then those five people ended up, after being led by one of the music executives who had sort of organized the whole thing, ended up taking over the conversation.

And like we've been saying, encouraging everyone to start to invest in gangster rap because these corporations and the lead executives had already built relationships with private prisons, and subsequently, by promoting gangster rap, not only could they increase the wealth of those corporations, of these these music industry corporations, but they could also personally gained a bunch of wealth by sort of doing like blind investments in these same

private prisons. Yeah, that should happen. Totally see it. That totally happens, especially now. I didn't. I didn't know it was that. Yeah, the n is when it's supposed to. This meeting took place. That's a year before the riots, No, I believe. So, yeah, people, you know, someone has to really talk about how conservative California is. People be thinking California is like there's some scary waits out there. No, it's yeah, I think it's it's it's terrifying how conservative

California and terrifying. It's a weighted word, but it it is haunting how much we pretend as if this is sort of like this liberal haven. I I listened to this podcast by this dude Robert Evans called it could Happen here, where he sort of explores the possibility that like we actually are much closer to civil war than we think that we are, and it's part of like the America American agenda to keep us believing that we're like better than every other country that sort of like

finds themselves murdering their own citizens. That said, one of the things he points out is that like most of California is actually controlled by like the food and water so fly of California specifically is controlled by like very conservative, very rural towns in northern California, and if at any point they decide to sort of like pull back from the Californian community, then we are basically cut off and we will literally be fighting in the streets over like

coffee and fucking eggs and ship. Okay, so let's write that pilot. That's that's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah, that's that's real. Spell though, man, I mean people don't don't realize, but like I mean not far Like you go out to the O C. And you go out, you know, it's all these little towns just sprinkle with just like you know, just like very very traditional quote unquote. Yeah. So anyway,

but I I I think it happen. I don't know what you think, but I like when you read that description with the details, I was like, oh, yeah, never mind, I I believed it. Then. I see see when you've read it just now, I got the same feeling I did back in the day. I also read that before. That was definitely out there before. Yeah, I think I think the conspiracy existed before twelve. And then the letter was and this person says that in the letter where

they said, I've been sitting on this for years. I've heard people talk about this three years, but it is it's finally reached the point where I feel like I need to step up and say what I know. They also spend the entire time saying that I'm I'm too fearful for my life and safety to actually name names in this thing, so I will keep everybody anonymous, including myself. They also talk about you asked the question of like

did everybody just go along with what was presented? They talked about the fact that when this was originally sort of like initiated in the meeting, that number I think they said three people stood up, like what the funk are you talking about and were immediately escorted off of the property and and based the erased from this conversation and not murdered, but just certainly like made to keep

quiet in that way. And also everybody had to sign in the A. So that's part of the argument for why it's never ever come forward, do you think, Rincy Johnson? Because Chris has been everywhere And that's the part I love that you asked that I really do, because that's the part that's always bugs me about sort of the way that it's presented is it makes it seem as if and now I think this is also some of the Bamboo's element that Black people often due to ourselves.

It makes it seem as if this was just a collection of of proud white men coming together to do proud white men things, and it's like, no, this was rich people coming together do rich people things, and so there's a real possibility mostly white people. Absolutely, there was, if if if any, it was a sprinkling, but that sprinkling is very much representative of of what that class of people is. Right, At a certain point, you get rich enough that it doesn't matter who's on the other

end of your of your decision making. You just want more money. Yeah, these are facts, and so that brings us back to that conservative conservative No. Um, okay, so we I think we both agreed that this totally happened. Now the question, I think so Now the question is who are the people of color in the in that room? How do we get to them? Are they still alive? That was it? I think I think you gotta put

l a read in the room. If if we're talking music in the early nineties, I think you got to put Yeah, I think baby Face was maybe on like a speaker phone, you know what I mean. I don't think he was there. I think he's a little too front facing that they couldn't put baby Face in the room. And they were like, well, we'll let baby listen in like put like a baby. We're gonna We're gonna just we're gonna hang out, which we're you right back again.

I think I think they had this meeting and then at some point they were like, and now, uh performance from baby Face, when can I see you again on the guitar over speaker phone for everybody to listen to. That's hilarious. Okay, Here's so one of the things that sort of like popped in my head as I'm as

I was reading all of this. Because the writer remained anonymous, he said that he stayed in the music industry for another two years, and then he says eventually that like his the sort of weight of what he knew in the shift that he saw from you know, the sort of like fat boys into the biggie small was too much for him to handle and he couldn't do it anymore. The fat boys the thing wait waite who I'm not

sure who he's dissing there. He didn't say them specifically, He was like that those those fat ones are nice, and this fat one's me. You want to eat if we want to eat, and killing make interface. So he said he had to get out of it. But one of the things that that sort of immediately felt like I had to ask myself and I needed to then ask the Internet is is there a correlation between rat music and crime? Like? Is there any evidence of there

being a correlation between rap music and crime? And I can't cannot express enough how much of a fucking dork you feel like when you have to type into Google does rap music lead to violence? You know who? Who's who's your man? Who's the dude with the conservative Jewish guy with the with the oh, I know Ben and Shapiro. Shapirot like, He's like, yeah, does you're like does rap music? And Shapiro pops up He's like, I'll take it from here. I got it. I got a big doug. Yeah. I

had to take that in and I'm terribly ashamed. But in doing that, I found this to two thousand six study from something called the Prevention of Research Center of the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation, Oh excuse me, out of Berkeley, California, and it suggests that young people who listen to rap and hip hop are more likely to abuse alcohol and commit violent acts. Now I should mention again this is from two thousand six, and so you have to take everything that happened in the early

adds would get a grain of salt. But then one of the key points that they keep harping on are these studies that show the increased alcohol consumption related to alcohols promoted in the song. So I passed the cavassier came out in a bunch of people bought more Cavasier. This is they're they're pointing to that, and one of I'd love to hear your thoughts on some of that correlation before I I jump into what I already have have made a bunch of conclusions about in my head.

I mean, I think it's one. It's kind of like it's like kind of like a nothing burger, you know what I'm saying. It's like, yeah, you're saying teenagers what like that's happening to be making an arguments. It's like the it's like the twenties when white people are listening to like jungle music and smoking jazz and like, you know, it's just like you know, when you're young and impressionable, like yeah, if you're a dumbass that you know, like

you were stupid, we were stupid. They're like motherfucker in the song and say like I'm eating them at the data is like just it's just like you just are and then you like become a person with your own you know, You're like, I gotta go to work. I can't eat potatoes mashed potatoes all day, like I gotta go have a life. And so I don't know, I don't. I'm like, okay, it's like there's a correlation between you know, people smoking, weeding and funk at each other and eating

chips like okay, wow, get this guy Nobel prize. Like right, this isn't this isn't as much a study as you being annoying about a good time. That's some folks, you know. Well, the other thing that popped in my head as I've read that is like, okay, so maybe there is an increased sailing Cavassier, but you're not telling me there's more alcohol being sold overall. So that just means that, like I hear pass the Cavassier and instead of buying vodka, I buy exactly so the the the sale is still

the same. It's just I'm making different choices because my boy Buster Rhymes introduced me to a new experience that I wouldn't have otherwise. Most people, you know, I've been a bartender. Okay, people don't have like this broad under like people don't know. They just like that looks pretty. Give me that, Like it's like beer or wine, or even when you say wine, they're not saying give me a chateau, you know. They just like people aren't really keeping up with Yeah, if you if you hit them with,

you know, drink that drink that you know. But I remember, I do remember also the amount of forties that I drank as a teenager. Sure, yeah, because of all the forties I saw. And I'm like in the suburbs, you know, at like at like you know, Kurt's house, you know the finished pace, you know. So, but you're just an idiot. You're just impressionable and stupid and like where have you been? What have you done? You? You don't know anything about anything.

You just what the older guys do. It truly feels like they are they're trying to make lasting judgments on the behaviors of impressionable children, and it's it's not a logical progression, and it certainly misses a bunch of steps.

One of the things that I think additionally is missed in all of this is that a study from two thousand two actually found that black kids statistically actually drink less ALCOHOLO this bike being exposed to sixty six percent more ads for beer and ale and eighty one percent

more ads talk about spirits talk about it. So we are literally being force fed almost a hundred percent more of the the the advertisements for these things, and simultaneously we are we are drinking less than than our white counterparts, and that has to mean something, and that's not being calculated in them being like, well, Buster Rhymes said a thing,

and then y'all reacted, Yeah, it's it's listened. Furious Styles had it right in poison Hood, Okay when he took trade and Ricky okay to that billboard and he said, and he was asking those questions, he's asking why is that? And I remember I went inside at Moved with a group of people and the white guy in my crew just like rolled his eyes at that part and the rest of us huh right, So it's it's again, it's

it's through who whose eyes? And again because white supremacy is very real, you know, it's it's the basis of all these arguments is again always to prove that there's something wrong with us. So so you know, whether that be paternalistically or otherwise. It's like these people are are immoral, they can't take care of themselves, and they'll try, you know, So it's like there's also no leeway, right, So again

it's it's it's also in a weird way. What's so frustrating about the Uncle Phils and the Bill Cosby's, Well, there's a lot that's frustrating about Bill Cosby, but in this one particular thing that's frustrating about Bill Cosby is in this context is again this this judging like there's no there's no room for us to be just human and vulnerable and flawed and like, yeah, we like to have a good time and you know, we like to party and like everyone enjoys vice. But does that mean

there's something wrong with us? You know what I'm saying, numb wrong. I wanna you just want to have a

good time like everybody else, you know. And to that point that it's also this cherry picking of the things that you want to be able to prove about us, right, Like nobody's going through Biggie smallst lyrics and being like there's been a massive uptick in black people eating cheese, eggs and and welch is great, you know what I mean, Like it's it's they all we also rap about nonsense that nobody is then tracking the relationship with They just

go alright, this thing is rapping about alcohol, so this must be a bad thing, right, Yeah, he's also rapping about you know, other things that you know are also positive and like you know having you know what I mean that that enlighten us and expand our vocabulary. I mean, I know about other kinds of music. I know about the continent of Africa because that the sonic you know,

a Angola, Wa Zombie Mozambique, a bos want where's that study? Right, there's an uptick in black keys from Detroit knowing countries in the continent of Africa thanks to step to Sign, these fucking kids are learning geography. We gotta put a

stop to it. So one of the things that really felt like it stood out in a lot of this attempt to create a correlation, and I read a few articles that that try to play some kind of correlation, is that at its core, it feels like the bigger risk of the attempt at correlating these things that you're you have to do it by ignoring every other factor that may have contributed to the way that this community functions.

Right that, if you're saying increased violence is happening in this neighborhood, you're also basically asking rap to be responsible for all of the factors that cross caused this increased violence while ignoring the systemic oppression that's happening in every other way. So that my my school not having enough funding has nothing to do with it. It's just the goddamn hip hop that made me behave this way all my pencils. Yeah, it surely is a wild attempt at

creating a relationship. And so one of the things that I felt and and the circles are us back to to the grander conspiracy at hand, right, is that while I do think that this meeting probably did happen, I don't think it was thirty people, if I'm being honest. I think it was probably like five to two six people. And I think there were multiple meetings that took place.

I think they went like sort of like group to group, person to person, and they only needed like one or two to buy into it each time to really like get their bigger plan going. That said, I don't think that this meeting is like the end all of everything that's happening, And this was just a small play in a much grand and her effort to like destroy black and brown communia, you know what I mean, Like they did this and then they went and met about fracking.

They don't they're not worried that much about us that this was like the the final chess move on our futures. Yeah, what what you check to check the wrap? The gangst wrap stocks again. I mean that's also like a very speci I'm not wondering if you were at some if you if you're not telling me, because that's very specific. It's just like I feel like they got into Afford

expedition that was blue. They started our c A and then they went to capital and they had little waters in the back, some of the fruity mens, some of the regular mins. I took the fruity but I don't mean me. I mean someone else that we can make royal good guy. Uh, that's that's you're probably not wrong. I'll buy that. But now you're making me wonder not don't know if you've done this study? Is like was

there statistically right? Like if if we look at to let's say two thousand one or two thousand eleven, was there an uptake? Did anything happen and wasn't due to rap? I mean, I'm sure it was just because that's just what they do. But yeah, was is there any if this did happen? Like, did it work? Did some people say? Because I know there was more games rap? But but was it because of this meeting? Was it because? I mean I definitely think more people were being put in prison?

But we could also point to the what was the jail Biden and Hillary Clinton? Yeah, the the jail law thing that they are bill that they put together, like I think there's a bunch of other crime bill excuse me. And that was like was early nineties for sure. And it's like maybe at that meeting, I think they I think we watched the meeting live on television and we were all like, man, there must be a secret meeting happening somewhere because we're fucking idiots, and I think there's

a secret meeting where they're really doing stuff. It's like, na, bro, they really o played this ship in front of you and they don't give a fuck. Yeah, the only secret was the deodorant that that Hillary Cook was worst, like she said front all your very true. Yeah, but that was early in C span. You know, that was early c span two, you know what I mean? That wasn't

that was C Span one and a half. It wasn't like the Family ties like it was a little key like we got the internet now so we can go back. But like that wasn't prime time. That wasn't. No, no, no, no, it wasn't. It wasn't very popular, but it was effective. And uh they've apologized for it since you can't be Yeah, like you know, there was a lot of drafts of that, like meaning like we didn't know what we were doing.

It's like family. You saw a lot of draft that. Yes, yes, that's and that's the part that I think is is buggy about all of these things, right, is that I don't and I've talked about this before in the podcast. I don't think that we as black people often give ourselves enough credit or give rather, we give white people too much credit for how intelligent their sinister moves are.

I think sometimes we make them into fucking these mad scientists who are able to like plot eighteen moves ahead, and instead I think that they are car salesmen, these these powerful people are truly used car salesmen who are who are just trying to get an idea over on people. And if it works, they celebrate, and if it doesn't, they tuck their tails and they apologize a decade two decades later and yeah they're about yeah exactly, and we

it's not lizard people. It truly is people with pet lizards, you know what I mean, Like it's it's a different vine. It's still got bars, still got bars. We're gonna take one more break. We'll be back with morradres good when and more, my mama told me, and we are that ain't nobody got time for it. Yeah, we're back here with Morra Drew is good. When more my mama told me. We're still talking about the possibility that there was this secret meeting that forced gangster wrap down our throats and

now we can't live without it. And they're all our daddies and brothers and cousins are in prison because of it. Damn you give me my daddy back. Sorry, little homie. Anyway, I just well, that isn't. One of the questions that I have for you is do you think that the artist at some point became aware of any of this, because that's another part of it that I think often goes overlooked, is like Ice Cubes a learned man. He's

got a goddamn master's degree. Do you think at any point he went, oh, ship, I'm not I'm a part of this. I'm helping. And then he was like, fuck it, I'm in this too far? Is he like? You know what I mean? Where where the art I can't do? Ask him? I could him, I can't do. Yeah, they a c What do you think about this question? You? Um, you know artists? Of course we're not. And of course who would do that? Who would ask? Who would be like, hey, I thought you want these guys here. I mean, it's

to me, it's not that of inviting mc wren. We watched little Wayne hug Donald Trump in a way that we haven't seen little Wayne hug a man, and and since he kissed baby on the mouth, so a part of me feels like, maybe there are there's a level of concession you make if there's enough dollar dollar bills, y'all.

On the end of this, I think little Wayne is also intentionally trolling us, though okay, I think he's trolling us and and that's how I feel about Yea as well, like that I don't like, I don't I have a

whole thing. So there's this like epic like the last player I write, sort of my career ending my irishman is I'm gonna do this epic freaking play about like self hate, like just that about like Candas Owens and and and easy E at the Republican dinner and Little Wayne and Yea and like because I'm trying to understand them because I don't believe them. Yeah, it's weird, but I but is that also me being racist? Like is that also me being narrow in a way not racist?

But is that me putting them doing the thing they're saying, like don't put me in a box, I don't have to vote Democrat, right, and me being like, come on here, laying you know, trying to be different. Yeah, yeah, that you're like, you know, you know better, You're just trying to prove something instead of like they truly aren't in the box and they they are functioning in the space where they believe what they're saying is right. That's right, But I don't believe you. You're not bought into it

at all at all. I don't. I just don't. I don't buy it anyway. Sorry, I don't mean to turn the show into like you drink somebody's working on. But no, I I actually think that this is better than the stupid stuff I come up with. Please, I want the questions. Don't know, I'm thinking it's all over the place. I'm just like happy to talk to another black adult anyway. No, this is fun. I this is the part of the episode where we always play a game and games. It's

a fun game. It's a game called white Lies. Ugly, You're disgusting. I'm gonna kill you. Give me two white lies. It's a it's a beautiful game where you drinks. I'm going to introduce to you a a widely held conspiracy theory in the white community, and what I would love for you to do is just break down why you think white people are so committed to this conspiracy theory?

Got it cool? This one's interesting. This is a fun one that I I had heard pieces of in the past, but had not heard sort of like all compiled in this way before. But apparently there are some people who believe that Britney Spears recently freed from her from her prison if Britney Spears is a part of a government

cover up, actually a series of government cover ups. They believe that Britney Spears over the years during the mid odds was sort of responsible for taking some els on the chin as a way of covering up specific meltdowns and issues within the Bush admin administration. So Britney Spears apparently in Dorst and you can see this in Fahrenheit nine eleven. Britney Spears endorsed Bush in the early two

thousand's and then a few things happened. So in two thousand four, weeks before the United States versus Libby trial, the Bush administration basically was going to be embarrassed in this trial. Instead, Britney Spears married someone and quickly annulled that marriage fifty five hours later in two thousand six. There are some people who think that when Brittany was photographed driving with her baby on her lap and soon was to divorce Kevin Federline, that was a cover up

for Bush dumping rock down a Rumsfeld. And then there are some people who believe that her tirade when she shaved her head and was running around with the umbrella was a cover up for the out for al Qaeda regaining power in Afghanistan, that all of these were orchestrated by the Bush administration to keep Brittany as a distraction from the bigger play at hand. My question again at Rees, is why do you think white people are so committed

to this conspiracy theory? Well, because wait for love Bush and they love Britney Spears, and so if there's a world those two, it's like fan fiction and it's like it's like but they're together, Like it's two things I love, but like together. You know. It's like putting like a Friday on a burger. It's like you would, yeah, but it can happen. No, but actually people do put Friday's on burger. So this is this is even probably even

more what I could do. It's like putting like you know, like Terreso on a chocolate cake or something like that happen. It's like when Scooby Doo when the Harlem blow Trotters linked up, and you're like, I didn't know I like this. They're not even the same universe, but like so yeah, that's that's what it is. It's fun. It's like fun, it's fun to do that like that's that's like because you know, it's why I was like, I don't know anything about like I don't like Britney's free. I'm like,

where did she go? What happened to her? Like free? What? Like I don't know, you know, that's just stuff they be following. So, yeah, that is my theory about why they want to believe that. It's because I want to they want those two you know. Yeah, It's it's funny you say that because so Brittany Is has been freed from her conservatorship, which was, you know, her father basically had like cooked it up to to sell her as crazy or or mentally unstable in the courts so that

he could be responsible for all of her money. And in freedom, she wasn't allowed to drive herself places, she wasn't allowed to access her own bank accounts. Her dad and family members were basically in charge of all of that, and it took a couple of years a long time for her to basically get like, uh, some level of like freedom from all of those things. Right, And after

saying that Bush that happened with Bush too? Is that he I'm saying, now now you're getting into some ship that I'm fascinated about because when did that conservatorship kick in. It might have been right after Bush left office. They got the same daddy. Oh. He was like, I don't need this bitch anymore. Tire her up, put put her bank accounts on hold. I don't need her running her mouth or anything. Now you're doing You're doing the dirty work. I was about to get messy, but now you did it.

You nailed it. I'm here from here to help me. This was this was great. This is a fun episode Therese. Could you tell the people at home where they can find you what cool ship you have going on? Oh? Yeah, man, So you know, I I uh, I'm always doing something. My mim is up to something I love. I love. Uh, you know, I'm embracing this this digital virtual moment where and trying to figure out, you know, howard writer for the live stage, can you know, translate into into all

these other platforms you know? Uh, So I'm always doing all sypes of types of stuff. But yeah, I'm on all the socials, just Eadri Scool, Windri scool dot Com, Addie Drew Skoo, when Nadie Drink. I'm on all the twitters and everything and so uh you know, but yeah, I've written sixty over sixty plays. They do them all over the place. Some of them are streamable, you know. So yeah, man, come out here, you know, hang beautiful and so following Dre's go see a play stream one.

If you ain't trying to leave the house, you got leave out stream that bad boy, And uh as always, you can follow me at lanksteint Kerman on all of those social media platforms as well. And if you if you subscribe, if you follow the podcast, write a review, I'll kiss you. I'll kiss you dead on your mouth. That's how I get down. And uh as always, you can send any conspiracy theories you have to my mama pod at gmail dot com. We would love to hear

from you. Otherwise that's it, by bitch. Are Kuala Bears were racist, the Oastal players oasting money, versions and many turny stuff. I can't tell me about my lo