Introducing: How Did We Get Weird (with Langston Kerman)

I do remember. Um well, before we could drive, remember waiting for the school bus and we could see it out the front window of our house, so you would be like frantically trying to get your backpack and shoes on before the bus came, and then you kind of see it coming and you try to like run. We have super long driveway, so you'd have to run that long driveway and then if you missed the bus, then

our parents had to drive us school. And um yeah, I remember, just like so, I mean I feel that's maybe were like so much internalized anxiety come from like just like knowing any second now the bus bus is going to come with it, yeah, and we would always cut it super close or miss the bus. And I remember once, uh, you and I had the same Doc Martin like like high tops growing up. I guess I don't know if you call those high tops, but the same Doc Martin boots and Um, one time I wasn't

going to school. I think I was sick and you were running really late for the bus, and you grabbed mine and kind of ran to the bus half in them. But then once you got to school you realized they were too small on you. What's funny is I don't remember that, but I think that's the kind of thing that would happen to me, and I would just be like okay, and I would like never. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to me at that time

in my life. Yeah, it reminds me of the time that I got called into the nurses office at school because you're like piercing in your chin fell out, and they she wanted me to help with it for like sanitary reasons because we were related. Anyways, we had a lot of adventures going to school. I remember then. Once we were in high school, we were alway is late because you would make us late. Yeah, well you were like an honor student. Um, I was not in any

honors program. I and I feel like we had to be at school so seven thirty in the morning, so I was always running late, and I felt like you were basically late to first period probably almost every day

because of me. Yeah, but I also felt really cool being late to school because of you, or just coming to school with you in general, because you would blast all this punk music and it it like really made me feel cool to have that, like playing out of the car when I was like, you know, I wasn't really a legit punk um that wasn't a legit punk

such as yourself, Jonah well, believe it or not. I just remember like how weird it was parking in our school parking lot because there would be like, right, like I had like a folks like and Jetta, but then there would be like super rich kids where I'd like between like two Hummers and just how weird that seems now for like these like sixteen year old kids to

have like sports cars totally. And I remember how weird it was because we would pull in and everyone was it into quiet music and our car was like like it was like the yelling guys, which I guess is hardcore, which fan was yelling guys. They were all yelling guys. It was always a song with yelling guys. Yeah. I had some Yeah, our dad's friend helped us get some, like twelve in speakers I had in the trunk. I had a really loud right with speakers and it feels

so unnecessary. It was like it was so unnecessary, but it got so loud. But yeah, I mean that was I'd like just love listening to love music in my car, which, now, what if I pulled next to the cars playing love of music. It's something I cannot even imagine myself doing. I'm trying to like, yeah, but it's better. I don't know. You were just the coolest Jonah, And thank you for giving me so much cred. No problem, I didn't even know that was giving you credit. I thought you have been,

you have been our whole lives. So well, what a sweet moment. Well you've you've done well for yourself too, so don't don't sell yourself short. Thanks so much. Well, let's get into our yes today, our guest today. We're so was so excited to have him. He's an actor, he's a writer, he's a comedian. You've seen him on Southside, High Maintenance, The Boys and as Jared on Insecure and his recent work on hbos Paused with Sam j. But most importantly, he hosts a wildly popular podcast, My Mama

told me, please welcome Lankston Kerman. Wow. Can I say that was the sweetest interaction I've ever I've dreamt of having those interactions with my siblings of somebody just being like, you've done pretty well for yourself. Too beautiful, But it's it's it's Have you ever had someone tell you they've you've given them a lot of Credit's a hard thing to start a response to it is, and I I didn't. I didn't envy your position in that moment to have

to come up with a charming retort. It doesn't happen often. That's unprecedented. Yeah, No, it was a tough spot to be in. I too found myself to get the bus to school, but I don't know that we had the same bus experience. I wasn't. I wasn't often late because the buses where most of the fights happened at my school, and so Papa needed a front seat to whoever was gonna be punching each other in the head that day,

and that that was always exciting. Wow. Wow, I don't remember a ton of fights on the buses with us, but um, I think, yeah, they're the best fights. I would say of all the fights, the bus fights are the best because the space is super contained and it's just uh, it can only last like twelve seconds before like so, either an obstruction happened, somebody's body gets in the way, or the bus driver pulls over, and now an adult who we don't respect is involved. It's all

fun right right now. Were you ever involved in the fights or were you just like kind of the audience. No, never, I'm a coward. I I I instigated fight. I chimed in when when it seemed as if nobody was paying attention and and sort of added punchlines to whatever punching was happening. But no, I wasn't. I wasn't fighting anybody. Those bus drivers are definitely not paid enough to deal with that. No, And and it shows they do not care for the work and they do not care about

the children that they're transporting. Yeah, so did you transition to driving to school or what was your kind of high school getting the school experience? Like, yeah, I so I got I took the bus through middle school and then because my middle school was way further than my

high school was from from my home. And then by the time I got to high school, I think I I either got like rides because I would like show up super early for like basketball practice or whatever activities, or I would walk, uh, which I think by then I had like a group of friends who was like, yeah, we'll walk a mile and a half together and that school. And I don't know why that was cool. I think in respect we should have happily learned, you know, how

to do something else. But we were like, yeah, it would have walk, guys, this is nice. We were weirdly not it was a rule we were not allowed to walk to school. So it was like if you if you we and we lived pretty close to our school, we're probably like a mile and a half away from our school, which actually not that close if you can't imagine, actually, but like, yeah, people would. It was like it was very like, you know, if you get caught walking to school, actually,

I don't know what would happen. I don't know. You weren't allowed to leave, you weren't allowed to go to McDonald's. You sneak out and go to McDonald's for lunch you can get in big trouble were you're allowed to leave? Yeah, we were very kind of contained. Also, this these were school rules. This wasn't just like your family said no, this rule wouldn't let us watch to school. It was

like which was there? I remember there was this one girl, Caitlin Store, who literally lived across the street from the school and she had to take the bus. Who isn't that crazy? Yeah, she had to take the bus and she was a really good student. She was maybe our valedictorian or like sal, sal, I'm not going to help you, but she she um, she was so she like listen, you know she took the bus every day. What a

waste of taxpayers money? That's crazy. Yeah. And then I remember for senior prank, someone broke into where they kept the buses and slash the tires on all the bus That was my senior year. Yeah. Did they do that your year too? No? I don't think so, but I think I think I heard about it. And it was so great because we got to go to school late then. It was so it was so and actually my my

friend was one of the people who did it. Like there was like a group of like six guys, and they were like he told me about it the night before they did it, and and he was like he was like and he he was gonna, I'm giving a lot of details. He was going to be at my prom date. And I was like, and there was a rule that like if if um, if someone gets caught doing a senior prank, they won't be allowed to go to prom and so and so. I so he was like,

I'm going to do this prank. He's like, I don't think we're gonna get caught, but if we if if we do, then like I won't be able to go to prom. And I was like, I was like, oh, I was like I'll go without you, Like I didn't, I might ruin your prom night forever and always so that I could be a part of a senior prank.

Don't worry exactly. But then the next day we went to school, like like it was like on the news like Orange schools are delayed two hours because like there was because like the something with the busses and whatever. And I was like, I was so like freaked out about it because I was like, am I complicit in this crime? Like I was so like freaking out. Then it was I got to school. I was like loving that I knew because I kept I started kept going up people and be like, who do you think did this?

This is wild? I'm so excited to be like in on the crime that I was just like, man, this is crazy, Like we better find out who these who? And I knew everyone who did it, and I was just like loving it. And then um, and then they all did get found out a few days later. And then but then the school let them go to prom because they didn't want to ruin their dates prom experiences.

But again, as someone my focus was very much on myself going like and so I remember being like, you guys didn't have to do that, Like we would have still all gone, I think, But um, maybe not everyone felt that way because I wasn't going from like this was like a friend I was going with. It wasn't like a romantic like if I don't get to go with him, I won't have like, oh you were fine

either way. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I do. I will say that I do appreciate a senior prank that actually has an an effect in the world, Like it's much better than I feel like for our senior prank somebody like put a bunch of baby oil on the main steps and just made people fall and ship and it's like, Okay, well that's not helpful, gentlemen, Like let's do something that actually benefits the whole of the senior.

It was. It was so great because I remember we had like tests since I mean probably nobody else was thinking as much about this because I was very into school, but we had tests that like we didn't have to finish them because of the time limits. Like like it's sort of like academically was like very helpful too, but yeah, totally, Like I remember, I think it was when I was

in we had eighth grade in the high school. And when I was in eighth grade, Jonah, do you remember this, the seniors put a bunch of grasshoppers like all over the school and then by the time we got to school, they had basically all been like vacuumed up, which just felt like so sad because it was just like they just killed a bunch of grasshoppers before we got in. You guys just set up a grasshopper genocide real quick,

and everyone got their day like regular. Yeah, very sad. Yeah, I remember during graduation they were like, when you shake the principal's hand, put a marble in your hand, everyone's going to give him a marble and then he's not going to know what to do with all the marbles. And like I was just like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that, trying to get out of here. I'm eighteen. O, thank you, thank you. Did people do it? I don't know. Maybe some people did, I was, I don't, I don't remember. Yeah,

I hope it was just one kid. Just one kid did the marble thing and tried to convince a lot of other people to do it, but only he did it, and and it was embarrassing and sort of awkward for him. Yeah, and so that's like, where am I supposed to get Mark? I don't know where you get marbles? I don't know. That feels like you could have figured that out if you honestly. Feels like prime time for finding I guess you're right. I guess you're right. You're right. They're probably

Marvel stores all around us. I bet you at that time could get marbles at like a pharmacy, like a little like a little fishnet bag. Yeah, Walgreen's had to have a ton of marbles back then. Yeah, where did you get him today? Uh? Amazon dot com. You're Daddy Bezos himself, He'll send you marbles. You're right, you're right. What do you do with marbles? You play a game? Yeah, technically I believe the game is that you're it's it's you're meant to knock the marbles out of the center.

That like you're it's like a competition almost like, uh, what's that that the slide e ball thing? You know what I'm talking about? The big like like on a big like on a big like you're standing and you like push the ball in the big thing. Yeah, oh shuffle I love that. I love that we needed help for for very popular American games. But the point is Marble's is sort of like shuffle board, but it's more

in the middle. So like you you create a center and then you you try to get your marble in the center, and then you try to knock other people's marbles out of the center. Is I think you're right? I just remember that you remember that Marble Madness video game? No, I don't. It was like a game where you kind of like tilted the screen and you would like have like a marble that would move around. It was pretty

cool game. I remember the the analog version of that, not the video game, but those like cheap toys that you would get where like there's a marble and you have to make a uh follow the path with it. I assume it's it's something similar to that. Yeah. Well there's also those little remember like in when you would go home from a birthday party if you would get

like a little bag of stuff. We we would always get those little squares that like had a little marble or had like a little ball in them and they go through a maze and you would do you know what I'm about? That's that ship? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wonder if they still well, probably have them on Amazon dot com. Daddy Bazos makes it. I worked at a gift shop last year, uh, a couple of years ago, and we sold like like free trade, like, um, they

make all that stuff. You can get it like free trade, like locally made toys for kids or these local people that are still carving weird mazes and then putting marbles in them. I don't know. It's a good question, it's a great question. I don't think I have the reason. One of the reasons I think I never played with marbles is because I would be so mesmerized by them because I really didn't know if they were cats eyes. Oh are some of them called like cat's eye marbles?

They look like cat's eyes. Yeah, I've heard that, Langsy. To give you a little background, Vanessa, Um, we also had a box collection of antique boxes just he was really on to find. That's such a nice way of it, and it's also a very concise way of summing up a person's uh situation. Let's call it. No, no, no. My sister collected boxes anyway, go on. Yeah, Like we'd go on a trip and I'd buy, like, you know, I get a little box that said like Florida or something.

Oh boy, I don't. I don't think I had any collections that, uh, that even come close to collecting boxes. I think I inherited my dad's coin collection and then moved on, Oh that's do you still have it? Do you still have the coins? No, I wasn't invested at all. He you know, it's one of those things where like um, where you think that you're finding something valuable because you find some penny that says like nineteen already nine, and

you're like, hey, Dad, check this out. And then he looks at and he's like, well, it's technically not worth anything because it has an S on it and not a D, or it isn't clean the right way, or the president is facing in the wrong direction. It's like, all right, man, funk off, I'm going to bed, Like, what what is this game that you're playing here? Yeah?

I could see that being very frustrating. Hasn't been as lucrative as your box collection rights always going to say I would really accept most any box into the collection, and you know, porcelain boxes, wooden boxes, just you know, anything anything, and perhaps the box from Daddy Bezos at Amazon Dot, you know. And look are the boxes all still my parents, Baseman, and are they every time I come home or they're like, Vanessa, you gotta get rid

of these boxes. Yes, but and my mom was like, you can take you can take like a selection of the boxes back with you to l A and then we'll donate the rest. And I'm like, I'm keeping all the boxing and they're standing right here. I'm not moving these boxes at all. Good luck, family. We got these boxes for life, and everybody knows that We're going to go to a quick commercial break, but we'll be right

back with Langston and we're back today. We're going to talk about something that Vanessa and I were not familiar with until this week, but now we're kind of obsessed with. And Yes, and this was your topic lengths and so thank you for that. It is the and one mixtape. And for our listeners that aren't familiar with this, could you maybe just sort of explain a little bit what it is? Yeah, So the N one mix tapes we were, uh,

sort of America's introduction to street basketball. It was like a bunch of random dudes who were not professional basketball players at least in the traditional sense you're NBA players who but we're fun and talented, like very talented people, and they would they just were nasty. They would do cool, cool moves that weren't even legal, uh in in professional basketball, weird crossovers and dunks, and they danced in your face after they embarrassed you in front of your family. And

I loved it. I couldn't get enough of the N one mixtapes as a child. So, like, what age were you sort of when you were like peak and One fan? Uh? I was probably I think I probably really found and one around like eight to ten, I would say, uh, and one at the time, Uh, there was there were a bunch of players who were really cool. But on

top of that, they also started a clothing brand. And at the time, the clothing brand was really cool because it, uh it was really big shirts and really baggy shorts to play basketball in. You know how uh easy that makes for playing basketball and uh and on top of that, all their shirts had like cool uh like phrases written on them, basically like trash talking phrases. So it would be like you, you brick so many shots you could build a house, and that would be written on the shirt.

Or it would be like you you don't dribble good and your mom's a whore, and like that would be on the shirt and you'd get so excited because you were ship talking in your clothes. Yeah, yeah, I was just feeling I was just thinking about how it it's a just strong move to like wear clothes that say stuff on them. Yes, like in any Yeah, it's it's very daring. It's much in the way that I I and you know, and maybe it's the same as the person putting on juicy when maybe that thing isn't that juicy,

you know what I mean. And you're wearing the shirt that you want to believe you can for stuff you think you can in the world, you know what I mean. It feels like you have to have so much confidence with it. I'm going to make a comparison that might not really track, but um, I live in a neighborhood where there's a lot people do so much Halloween decorating,

and we were outside. I was walking with my friend outside this beautiful house and it was so decorated for Halloween in such a crazy way, like more than most houses. And then the guy who lived there was like outside on his phone and he was just like on this like on his front porch, like talking on the phone. And I was like, I feel like the story isn't gonna land well. But I was like, is he so embarrassed to be like an adult man, like standing in

front of a house that's decorated so much? Now follow me here in the same way that like, if you're wearing a shirt that says like anything like don't talk to me before I have my morning coffee or whatever, do you like then when you make eye contact with other people. Are you like, I shouldn't have done this, you know, I'm sorry I didn't. You can't talk to me. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like that story might not have been as relevant as I thought

it was about the guy in the Halloween house. But I just think like, yeah, very but very cool that and one um did did the trash talking for you?

You know? Yeah, it was, it was. It was just a dope period in I think in basketball where we were transitioning out of sort of like this buttoned up version of what basketball was, which is a weird thing to think about in terms of basketball, but it was like this was back when you know, NBA players were expected to wear suits everywhere they went, and like Michael Jordan was just a nice Uh this is before we

knew he was a monster. But Michael Jordan was a nice man who loved his family and never did anything wrong. And then you know, and one came a round and they were just like a man, I'm about to dunk on you in front of everyone you that knows you and cares about you. It was great. Yeah, was that the era of like Detroit Pistons, like the Bad Boys,

this is this is years after Bad Boys. This would be sort of in the wake of the This is like late nineties, early two thousands actual like Alan Iverson, I think in a lot of ways is kind of, uh a synonymous with not synonymous, but sort of like runs parallel with like the and one culture, if that makes sense, got it? Got it. I was really into sports until about like seventh grade, so all of my references are like now, I'm like, I was this guy

still playing. My Dad's like, yeah, he's a coach. But but I've been watching a lot of the ANI one videos and one one player I've been very impressed with is the professor. Oh the professor, of course, yes, I mean, well, could you describe in dove any thoughts on the professor? Oh, I have plenty of thoughts on the professor. Uh. The Professor was was white people's first, uh first introduction to

the N one mix tapes. And he was fun because and one was so much about ship talking right that, and I think in some ways it also was sort of like a cool liaison into comedy, whereas like, I like sports and then they say mean things when they play sports. This is hilarious. So it was all of that for me. But the Professor is interesting. His name is Grayson by the way, so he's very white for

anyone who who's unfamiliar. But the Professor was sort of like this cute, blonde haired kid who was playing with all these big, like athletic black dudes, and he was nice. He could he could dribble better than almost everybody. His passes were insane. He did crazy layups and sort of trick moves, and no one that they played against took him seriously until he would embarrass every body, which only

added to the the pizzazz of it all. Yeah, yeah, And what's more amazing is the way they're doing it in these clothes, Like you were saying that is are so big between their legs and it's like it's in Yeah, it's insane. Have you followed what what the Professor has been doing more recently? I have, and and he's now turned into some sort of Christian basketball player where he he like goes from random park to random park across

the world. Now he like has a very popular YouTube following and Instagram following where he'll go to like, uh, Singapore and just play random people at parks there and then like cut up, uh, like footage of him crossing people over and then hugging them afterwards and telling them that that God loves them. And yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, yeah, he's taken that street ball thing in a whole different direction.

I guess he has there's prayer now in it. And uh, I knew him when he was getting yelled curse words, but you know, it's different vibes. I guess for sure. Did you play that the and one video game at all? We found out about the video game recently. I did not play the End one video game. I know nothing of this. Oh, I can tell you that it came out in two thousand six. I have a couple of

facts here. Um, the PlayStation two version received quote mixed reviews, while the Xbox well, the Xbox version received generally unfavorable reviews. So it seems like you didn't miss much. No, and thank god it's so. If it came out in two thousand and six, I had just graduated from high school, and I think by that time I was pretty uh, I knew I wasn't going to make the NBA, so so I had sort of moved on from my dreams of playing certainly I wasn't playing video games of and

one mixtapes, but uh damn, that's a shame. They had their their big shot and they blew it. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Were you did you play a lot of kind of basketball growing up or in high school during that period of your life. I did. I played basketball. That was my main thing through uh through junior year of high school, and then I got cut from the team and then ended up like writing poetry after that,

so I took a big turn. But I yeah, even after that, like I I then like made technically made the team my senior year, but I quit to continue writing poetry. But then in college I ended up playing as a practice player for my women's basketball team. So I was like basically like showing up every day to like get beat up on by these these very talented girls. So it it. You know, I love basketball, I was playing, you know, for most of my life. I think giving

a basketball for poetry is pretty cool. I think that's a pretty pretty cool move. I don't know if most people would agree, but I appreciate your encouragement. What kind of what kind of poems were you writing at that time? I think, uh, in high school. It was mostly love poems the girls who uh, who were either partially interested or I had moved on from whatever our situation was. That that's probably the major theme of everything I was writing. And did you were you giving them to the girls

or were you sort of just kind of brooding with them? Oh? No, I I made sure you heard it. If if you dated me, you heard those poems? Did it fix any of our situations? It did not, But you were gonna get every word I wrote down? And were you like keeping yourself to like? Were you like I want to write a poem for this girl, but I wanted to be like, um, I am the pentameter, or like I

wanted to be a Limerick. I wanted to No, No, this was this was two thousand four when limericks no longer mattered and I am big pentameter meant ship to any girls that I dated, I just yeah, it was mostly just free verse. It was me just writing down

my thoughts. I I had the good fortune of going to a high school that had like a pretty large spoken word club, Like there were like sixty kids in the program, uh in my high school, and so uh with that, I think we just it wasn't as like weird oh lame as I think it could have been if this were like one of those weird like three person clubs where our books getting knocked out of our hands and we don't know what to do with ourselves kind of thing. And sorry, one more question about this.

Would you would you read them the poems or would you give them to them? So thank you for asking. Uh. No, I I'd often read the poems at our at our spoken word like um uh concert the concerts the wrong word, but it was sort of like our spoken word performances shows. I would read the poems there, uh, with the hopes that they would show up to said performances and they they'd be left so a flutter by the things that I said, that they would come back to me and

our romance would begin again. Did you get into slam poetry because that seems like a really like between basketball and poetry. That seems like this sort of performative type of poetry. You know, I don't know if I saw Williams all this stuff was that era. Yeah, saw Williams was was exactly that era, And that is exactly why I think I gravitated so much to poetry. Like I was already writing poetry, right, I was interested in it. But then you know, you're coming out of sports and

it's like, wow, I don't I want to compete. I want to do a thing, and so, uh, slam became like a nice transition into that. And I grew up in in Oak Park outside of Chicago, so I know, you guys are from Chicago to yet we're from Cleveland, but I but I lived in Chicago for a long time, so you know. And so Chicago has the largest even today has the largest youth slam in the world. Yeah,

it's this thing called Louder than a Bomb. And so like our team would compete every year, and uh, it became like a cool thing where like now I'm I'm writing poetry, but I'm writing poetry to funk people up, you know what I mean, instead of just writing it, uh for sad reasons. Amazing. Yeah, it was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Now did you ever speaking of being did you not to take it away from your post? I mean, I

I I love hearing about your poetry. I feel like that's so it also, but just being from Chicago, did you ever see and one the and one tour? Like in person, like when they went to Chicago, did you go? I didn't. I wish I had. I don't think that that I had like the wherewithal as like a young person. I don't know if this this you guys relate to this at all, but I think a part of me always treated that is like a foreign thing that like, oh,

it's like seeing your favorite person in concert. It wasn't until I got to like high school that I was like, oh, ship, they they might actually come to where I live. It was always like, well, I'll never be in the same room as uh as the professor or or hot sauce, you know what I mean, Like it was just me not It never even crossed my mind that I could go and see them, So now I never got to do it. Yeah, I remember being like in that that kind of like pre going to concert age where like

I'm a little older than you. I'm forty one, and so I remember like all these kids coming to school wearing like American gladiator shirts and they're like we also went to see American gladiators that like the arena. I was like, how did you guys know about Like how do you even find out about stuff? I guess yeah, but yeah, people would go to that kind of stuff.

I remember, uh, my dad one year took me to uh to family Double Dare like but not not the in studio one, the one that they would just like to Yeah that would just go on tour and being like a stadium somewhere and like do like random families and not film it, but like Mark Summers would be there and I remember him like pacing the like audience, being like, we need another kid, who's gonna be our kid? And me going crazy and he looked right at me

and moved to a different person. And that's why I've always maintained fuck Mark Summers for the rest of my life. I will go to my graves saying fuck you, Mark Summers. I'll never forgive you. Well it makes you feeling better.

We just watched the Nickelodeon documentary and I Mark Summers I think was probably hating every Also he did say that um at one point his kids said to him, like because he was going on those tours with Double the Air, and his kids were like, why do you spend the weekend with other people's kids but not us? And so then he said, like the next day after his kids said that to him, he quit. So actually you were part of the thing that got him to like stop working. So in some ways you got back

at him. He looked me dead in my eyes, and he was like, I got to get back to my family. Yeah, he probably that's probably why he didn't pick you, because he probably felt so warm towards you, Like he was like, if I picked this kid, then it's going to truly break my heart. He picked some to another another beautiful child. I have to end this here. Yeah, so he picked like a kid that he was like this kid over

here out of a giant nose, Mark Summers Summers. He doesn't talk about it on the documentary, but he um famously has very a lot of O C D, which who doesn't. But sure, and I have to imagine that job must have contributed to it. Well, that's the thing, is like, is it the chicken or the like what that that job does seem? I mean so fun for kids, but like there's so much disgusting even just like imagery. Yeah. Absolutely, Like you said, Green, it's not coming out of a

a giant nose and you have to do this. I assume they're filming what like four episodes a day, Yeah, five days a week, just to be able to satisfy our sick need to watch more noses, have more Bookers in them. It's it's all bad. Yeah, but then he um, he got right out of there once his kids complained. And maybe I need to make my peace with Mark Summers. Maybe maybe I can't go to my grave with these negative feelings towards could be kind of live rating, you know,

just to let it go, not be carrying that around. Yeah, all this all this gag covering my heart. Yeah, but you know if it also if it drives you, then that then hold onto. Sure if it's helping you to. Um, did you watch did you watch a lot of Nickelodeon growing up? I loved it. It was I was a Nickelodeon kid. I know there are some Disney Kids and Nicodeon. Yeah, yeah, Disney Kids weirded me out, I'll be honest, because you had to pay for the Disney Channel, so they You know,

that was a bigger issue for me as well. Our cable was limited. But it just Nickelodeon was like edgy and cool and like I was talking to somebody about it today, actually that like it didn't it is just now occurring to me as of recently that like all that had like wul Tang clan On and Mary J. Blige and they were singing their real songs, not like versions of the songs in front of audiences of twelve

year old It was it is pretty crazy. Yeah, And if you watch this documentary, they also Coolio talks about how like he did the song for Keenan and Kell's show and it was like the most popular song he ever Like it was like it was like a huge deal. Like it was like, it's pretty crazy. If that doesn't make you do your hair the way Coolio does it there, I don't know what what has you know what I mean,

right right right right right totally. You dedicate your work to being a talented rap artist, and the thing that propels you into to stardom is making the theme music to two boys, uh arguing about orange soda. It's a bad combination for an adult man. Yeah, I mean then he went on and did um dangerous minds that, Yeah, I mean, And all we have now is Michelle Peiffer and a leather jacket telling us that, uh, we can't get out the ghetto, we can make something of ourselves.

Thank you, Michelle. Yeah, I don't think that movie would probably get be getting made anytime against soon. I don't know. I don't think so either. I think that's why we don't bring it up for positive reasons than yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know. I wanted to talk really briefly about your podcast my mom told me, which yeah, it's not an amazing network, I hear, um, But I mean, how would you sort of describe the podcast? Maybe, um, for people

who haven't heard it, haven't heard it before. Oh, it's I love conspiracy theories, and I happened to be black and have a ton of friends who happened to be black, So we just talk about black people in their conspiracy theories, which oftentimes are are there's a lot of inn diagram crossover between white conspiracy theories. But there's a different sort of like twist right at the end, which makes it pretty.

It makes it fun and and interesting and sort of a more nuanced, uh conversation than every other insane person that's on the internet, for sure. I mean, do you have any I mean, because to me, that's it's fascinating. There's there's so many kind of interesting topics, are there any that you've done that kind of stand out to you or any that, Like, I just didn't know about so many of these conspiracies, so they're really interesting to listen about. There any any favors you have, Yeah, I

mean I have a ton of them. Uh Carl Tart, who's a very funny comedian. Um uh improv sketch dude who who came on? And Uh, it's a conspiracy theory I've heard for for years now where we talked about, uh, the theory that women put menstrual blood. You can't eat a strange woman's uh spaghetti because uh women put their own menstrual blood in the spaghetti and make you fall in love with them. Well, I can speak to that.

That's that's something you heard when you were younger. It's something that I heard more actually in early adulthood than I heard like a person. But he's from Uh, he's from Mississippi, I believe. And it is a very Southern thing to like think that. You know, it's like it has to do with like juju and magic and all that kind of stuff that voodoo ko do I believe is the the sort of like actual term that's connected to it. But it's it's some sort of witch doctor

e ship. Yeah. Yeah, wow, that's it was interesting too. I mean, we've been listening to your podcast and it's

interesting too that there is something. I mean that's interesting that you heard it more as an adult, but there is also some like I remember so many of those conspiracy theories from being a kid, like because as a kid, like you really you're really like, oh, this must be true, like this must be Like I was listening to the Tommy Hill Figure episode and it's like we all thought we were Like he was on Oprah he said like, and it's true. It's like, what which episode was it.

It's like, yeah, there's there's literally no evidence of this actually existing. What is it? What is it? What is it about Tommy hill Figure? That Tommy Hill Figure, at some point in his early in sort of like the transition of Hill Figure clothing, uh, Tommy jeans whatever it was, made a big announcement on Oprah that he did not want black people wearing his clothing. He'd made it for like a certain class of people, and black people did

not represent that class. And what I think I heard, the version I think I heard was like Oprah got so mad at him, that she like yelled at him on the show and she would never have him back again, and that maybe the reason we hadn't seen it was because as she wouldn't, she refused to air the episode. Yeah, I similarly had heard this story of the bravery that Oprah. Oprah put her foot down and she said, get out of here. Tommy, you never show your face around here again.

You're dead to me, and then that had like it had squashed his career at that point. Yeah, I mean, it's it's so fascinating to think about how these things spread during that era, like before the Internet, how everyone we could all hear these stories that like how how did they spread? Like how did people find out about

this stuff? Well, it's so fun because because in doing the research, what I discovered is that it actually came from basically like some chain mail, like a chain email from the Philippines, and it did actually come from a shitty thing that Tommy said. Shitty is a weighted term, but basically he went out and he said, like, hey, please stop wearing knockoff versions of my clothing. It doesn't

look as good. I don't like that. And a bunch of people in other countries were like, they forget you man, You're like ruining our sweet deal when we make these these nice knockoffs and that's how we make our money. And so they made up a weird statement about Tommy He'll Figure saying this thing, and then the email got circulated so many times that we in our middle schools were like hell, yeah, yeah yeah. And you know what's

so crazy. It is like even though that stuff is so like you hear it a lot in childhood and stuff like, I still feel like when like I would, I still like every time I had seen an ad for like a Tommy thing, I'd be like, why are people supporting this guy? Like even as an adult, I'm like, yeah,

this guy is a monster. I don't know what. Yeah, I I there's so many things that that uh that we're hugely problematic and or wrong from from these conspiracy theories that circulate from being young that I still, like you said, I'm still like, I know it's not right. Yeah, I can't know. I can't support old Tommy hill Figure even though he's done nothing wrong. He seems honestly like

sweet man, sweet nice. Yeah. You know, there's also like a thing with Jewish people I feel like where your parents tell you that everyone's anti Semitics, so you sort of think that like everything is somehow made by like an anti Semitic, like you can't you shouldn't watch this or do this thing or this thing because they don't

like Jews. As you know, that was I don't there's we In a similar episode similar we talked about how some people theorize that the that Timberland's were made by the KKK, that the entire like, uh, the thing is owned by the KKK, and the tree on the on the Timberland logo is actually connected to uh, hangings for

for slaves right or for black people in general. But that said, uh, one of the things that that sort of gets uncovered in all of that is that Timberland were actually originally conceived and owned by Jewish people, but because of this weird rumor that got started, they got associated with so much anti Semitism that it like did do damage to the problem like the product at certain points. Wow. Wow,

that's wow. But yeah, I mean, I think that's really interesting parallel because I think that the idea of like a black conspiracy theory probably makes so much sense, and the fact that like you know, brought you so marginalized, you know, taking advantage of brought over by you know, slavery, all this stuff. Obviously, how could you not think that things are against you on some level, like with these conspiracy theories. Do you think that's an element of it? Yeah?

I do, And I think in a in an interesting way or a really like important way. The goal isn't so much to just keep this like locked on on black people, but to sort of show the ways that like it kind of crosses over into all of our ship, you know what I mean that like much in the way that that you know, these weird stories come up in the black community, they also come up in a lot of other marginalized communities and then our American community as a whole, if whatever that means, If that exists,

But like I do think that that it's not it's not meant to be a thing where it's like this is for us, and y'all ain't supposed to hear it. It's like, not listen to it and recognize that you probably heard something very similar to it, even if it isn't necessarily verbatim what you grew up with. Yeah, yeah, I think that's really smart. I think that, and I think that your podcast really does that really well. And

some of them are are so dark. Yeah, like the Brandy stuff I found to be like really darn all that stuff. Yeah I didn't know. Yeah, I mean I just didn't know any of this stuff. Some of them get real sad, uh if you if you take them seriously, which is why I try to laugh through all it, because yeah, we're going to take another quick break and we'll be right back. Okay, we are back and Langston.

Now we're going to play a game with you where we bring up nostalgic products, like products shows, stuff from our childhood that are now making a comeback. And if you're into them, you can give them a yes, Stalgia all Stalja, and if you're not into them, you give them a no Stalla no no no no no no no no no no Stalja. You face like you look impressed by how fun these puns are, and I'm wow staalgia by by what you're putting together here. I love it. Thank you very much well to give you the first

man product um. A popular snack that was discontinued but is now coming back is three D Dorito's Dorito's has announced that they're e dimensional snack dubbed three D Crunch has hit the stores. Um. They come in spicy ranch and chili cheese nacho and instead of the traditional flat triangles that you know we're all used to and honestly love, Um, they come in a conical shape. And these were originally available between and four but now they're they're back. What

what you know? Are you? Are you a Dorrito person? Are you excited about? You know? I do love a Dorrito. I'm a big fan, and I do remember the the three D der ritos. But I am going to say nostalgia to the return of the three D de Rito, because yes, I am a much uh. I I have a much fonder, warmer memory of Bugles, and I think Bugles deserve to be brought back and and celebrated properly instead of Doritos just recycling their same flavor with new stuff. Yeah,

it's kind of a Bugle rip off. Let me let me ask you something like, let me see if this statement from Rachel fer Ferdinando that she's frieda Ley's North American Senior Vice president and chief marketing officer. Um, let me see, it's a statement that she says changes your mind at all. What's exciting is that we didn't just bring back the original, We've evolved it to reflect the snacking trends of a new generation. We're thrilled interest a new version at a time when we could all use

a small amount of joy. What do you think they've They've evolved it and about that. It feels like she's trying to make this about like the racial uh awakening of the country, but then pretend like it's just about bringing snacks. Do you know what I mean? Where She's like, America is in a tough place right now, we just had an insurrection. All kinds of horrible things are happening. But Doritos, the Dorrito's Company, is really here to support you in and bring you a little bit of joy.

It's like, I don't need to I see what I'm saying. I'm not exactly sure when she made this statement, but it was definitely in response to something bad happening in the world. Yes, they felt like, you know, a puppy was murdered on their campuses and she was like, well, Dorito's three d I guess we got to bring it back. Yeah, yeah, it is really like it is a kind of a funny name though to be like like this is a three D dorrito, like you can touch all the sides

it like it's already three DS. And I mean even that's such a good point. Yeah, we've been three D this whole time. Yeah, we're not living in flat Land, so everything is three D. Did you guys ever watch flat Land? And it's a whole um? I didn't, But I didn't either because I think I either made it up or it was like a thing you want. It sounds a little in like middle school math. It's I remember flat Stanley, but that that's about as far as uh flat uh titles that I'm familiar with. What was

flat Stanley. Flat Stanley was this thing that they would make kids take a picture with as like a way of uh, you would mail him uh two different people on different like continents and countries and all that, as a way of like pin pal sort of communication. And so you would send someone flat Stanley and they would take a picture with flat Stanley Stanley, and that's how you knew that flat Stanley had like made it to the people you were communicating with across the world. That

does sound very fun to me. This is probably like if there's younger people listening to this too, grew up with like TikTok and all stuff, I probably like, man, people did insane stuff and they were kids, and it must sound just so wild. Just the just the very concept of pin pals is in my mind one of the most uh embarrassing things that we could have done for generations. We were just writing random kids and being like, yo, I have enough friends, will you be one of them?

But my friend from Chicago, Louis, he said when he was a kid, he was pen pals with um, he was pim pals with Soley Moon Fry. So I might have put the wrong emphasis on the wrong words, but Punky Brewster was his pen pal. I know, I don't. I should find out more information, like was it pre Like at what point that sounds like maybe that's a made up story. It's true, he's not a liar, Jonah, And you're going to say that don't count my friends.

It sounds like something you would say though in like sixth grade, like when were like doing improv in Chicago. I believe Okay, Well, I mean he if he made it up and it would actually be really I'm pretty sure it's true. I'm gonna get confirmation. Yeah, I feel like you gotta do some some digging on this. Yeah, you want to bring this back in another episode and

be like, hey, quick update, y'all. Turns out he's a a sick liar and he led me on for years believing that Punky Brewster was his, which would be very sad. Vanessa thoughts, I'm kind of honestly, I'm kind of a nostalgia on it because you know, I hadn't really thought about the Bugles element Langston, but I do think, like you're right, It's like, you know, stick to what you do. You guys are you know you already have like carved out such a wonderful space for yourselves in the snack world,

and like yeah, it's like who needs it? And also like you know, I don't want to burn um Rachel Fernando of Freedom A North America, but um, you know, have some self awareness, I think. And and look, if Doritos every wants me to do commercial, I'll do it, but like has the self awareness of like, you know, that's I don't know that it's going to bring that many people joy, you know, And and if it is you already. You know. I have a lot of thoughts and they're not coming together in a great way. But

I'm a nostalgia for it. I agree. I think you put it together just fine. Thank you. The people that want this don't need it, Let's not give it to them. A nostalgia also, UM, I think Rachel just lost me with that statement about about the snacking revolving for snacking tons of a new generation. It feels just a bit self important. It's like you took a torrito and just copied the bugle. Yeah, this bugle thing, really, it basically makes a decision for us. Yeah. Yeah, so great. We're

all all three nostalgias for that one. UM. The next one, UM is about the TLC reunion mm HM TLC, who are the best selling American female group of all time. UM just announced their celebration of Crazy Sexy Cool National Tour UM eighteen cities, featuring uh T, Bas and Chili. They're going to perform songs from Diamond certified album twenty seven years later. The nineties theme shows will feature fan interaction, nineties fashion, surprise guests, and more. Joining TLC is Bone,

Thugs and Harmony, plus special guests. Oh hey, I'm a guest Dolgia for that, that's pretty cool. I agree. Were you a big TLC fan? I was deeply in love with U with each member at different points in my life. I think, I think Chili was my my original first love, and then I think uh I eventually realized left I was was beautiful in her own right, and then super sad when she died, and then of course t Baas who could not love t bas So? Yeah, I loved

and their music was amazing. Yeah, I was in there were great And did you by the way, did you um did you see the v H one two thousand and thirteen like that when they did, like the movie about their lives where like people played them, I did not. Uh. I valued my time and respected them too much to revisit whatever the attempt was going to be at. I think. Wasn't Kiki Palmer one of the Yeah, no, I know, I actually yeah, okay, well I thought it was good.

Jonah Jonah was I think separately and it never talked about like did you say that documentary that that weird movie about them? And she was like yeah, I was like, yeah, I saw too. And when it's pretty good, right, And Jonah was like no, and so we were gonna have you kind of um be the like deciding but but respect that I was back that I can't say I'm not going to be that person that says it's bad

because I chose not to see it. Somate once again. Yeah, I got some good news because the same announcement they said to to our documentary special biography TLC is going to come out on any So that'll be like a legit, yeah, because they have such an interesting story to write, where like they were selling so many records and everything, and they were they were like making no money, right, Like I feel like every artist before like two thousand pretty

much got scammed out of most of their wealth. Like I was watching this thing about Cisco the other day, and uh, the Thong song obviously his biggest hit, his most classic sort of like song. And as it turns out, he makes almost no money on the Thong song because of that living Levita local line that like he go because he threw that in there, and in the studio session they go a, man, I don't think we could clear that, and he goes, nah, it's cool. I know.

Ricky Martin's people, I'll take care of it, and then never does. And they released the song, and Ricky Martin's people hear it, and they sued the ship out of them, and then they settle and basically have to give like crazy points on every play just to be able to satiate, you know, the whole He sort of created Cisco follow up on your Yeah, that happened. That also happened with

that um that verb song Bittersweet Symphony. It's like that main song is so sample from the Rolling Stones, and I think like they ended up getting like Rolling Stones got like all the publishing from the song because of some kind of deal. I mean, yeah, that was like the era where that kind of stuff would happen. It's so crazy. And any thoughts on bone Tones that harmony big fan. We're from Cleveland and John, I don't know

if you remember the US. People would see we had a mall in our suburb called Beechwood Place, and and people would see once in a while they would see bone Thugs at beech With Place and they would be like they would come into school and they would be like I was at beach With Place and bone Thugs. But it's like it was like a very suburban mall.

So it just feels so funny like that that people would see them there, and but it was like those were the only like those were like the celebrities that would, like, you know, they sometimes go There's like you could sometimes see them at Beecher Place, and that was just like kept everybody. I can tell it was suburban because you're like, we saw bone thugs, and it's not naming which bone thugs. It's not like we saw all of bone thugs together

they shop at the mall at once. Yes, I can think of like three times someone said to me we saw bone thugs. Nobody ever called anyone if my name really was like, I don't remember of that. I don't remember that. I'm sure, I'm sure how I remember a bunch of times people like coming back from Beechwood Place and being so excited about it. Laston, did you have any celebrity settings at any like Chicago area malls growing up? Oh,

at the mall, m hmmm, I don't think so. I think I was a little too suburban, but not in a in a way that celebrities would come to our mall. It was more like suburban sad suburban if that makes sense. Like the North Riverside Mall was more a place where you could uh buy some Pelly Pelly jeans and then get shot at, depending on the time of day you went. Um So I yeah, No, I didn't see anybody there.

I did, I would say. The biggest celebrity interaction I had as a kid was going to Chicago State University like one time, and I was like fifteen, and Kanye's mom was the was a professor there, and so she had him basically give like a talk to kids, high

school kids who were visiting. And so they were like three hundred of us sitting and this is before College Dropout even came out, and just listen to Kanye make beats on the table and like he was doing like Spaceships and like all kinds of songs that ended up on College Dropout on the table and being like, yeah, that's gonna be a hit right here, and check out this new thing I'm working on, and he'd like seeing a new thing, and we were like, this, dude's crazy,

It's so cool. So yeah, I knew, well, I knew I saw Kanye before he uh, before he turned into a different Kanye. Wow. That is really amazing. Yeah, yeah, it was fun that. It's pretty cool. I got to see him like two or three times before college dropout even existed, and that was like, uh, a wild transition to watch, you know what I mean. Yeah, so okay, so this is a yes Dolgia for you. This tells absolutely I agree. I'm also yes s Dolgia for them.

I was very obsessed with them and um. At camp, we did a lip singing contest to waterfalls and I memorized the wrap I does. And it's only like recently that I'm like, oh, I don't have to tell everybody that. I'm like, I don't have to do it for people at carry, Like I don't have to like be so proud of that. It's sort of like it's actually making me less. Like I will say, that wasn't a weird way for you to introduce yourself to me. But I

enjoyed it, just not exactly what I was expecting. Yeah, you've done some other stuff in US, you don't have to lead with that. Still, it's a really it is a it takes a lot of skill to do that. It's a very Hey I'm Vanessa, and uh I saw a rainbow yesterday. Yeah, sorry that I brought that up first. So great, So we got three just for that. Okay, three dollars just for that. Okay. Now, finally Verizon has

brought back, um, the Motorola razor flip phone. Okay, and the new version has a full touchscreen and all the capabilities of a smartphone. But it folds in half like the classic razor phone, but rather than a phone that becomes the size of a tablet when you flip it open, it just when you flip it open, it becomes the size of a normal smartphone, and then it folds up so that it could like gets really small, like it could fit in your pocket. Mm hmm. It's a nostalgia

for me. I I had to hear it all the way through, but I think I knew I was gonna say no right from the begin Yeah. I could tell you kind of wanted just say no to it, and I kind of kept giving you details. I heard Motorola, and I was like, I'm good. Uh, I survived those years. I don't need to go back to whatever that experience was of weird colored Motorola razors. Yeah, I I agree. Oh, and this we didn't mention, Um, it's the phone cost whoa, yeah, whoa.

I guess it's like, imagine if you could fold your computer in half. I think I want to take this back already, but just thinking that's what laptops do, you know? But I mean you could know, you're absolutely but I think like these ones, you fold the screen in half.

But am I wrong? Yeah? I think it's like it's like your your iPhone could just fold in half and be like half, but then it's like, so it's stubby, so thicker would Yeah, no, I'm good that that doesn't sound good if they want to bring back a phone that I think would have a big impacting The Sidekick. I really enjoyed the Sidekick. I thought that that it was innovative at the time and deserves another shot, you

know what I mean. Yeah, Sidekick was I felt like it was really like when texting kind of first came out. If you're a sidekick, it was like you could really really get into it. I need to do the toal nine you know? Yeah? Did you? I didn't, and I was terribly jealous of everybody who did. Yeah, it was the one. It was the sidekicking. There was the one that you that you chirp where you could like chirt people with it, and I don't remember what it was called,

but it was. Yeah, it just was there was like the next the next. I wanted a sidekick in the next sale, and I got neither, and for some reason that worked out for me, you know, I guess, I don't know. Yeah, I always wanted the Nokia like that when they first came out, the Nokia phones that came in different colors, like you could get like it in like pastel, pink or blue. And I remember some some like Girls Magazine reading it and being like all this

slebs have like pastel colored. Oh like the little nochia brick like those little yeah yeah, like they had literally no like you couldn't do anything on them except make phone calls. But that's not true. You could play Snake and that was a real fun game before we realized that other games existed. Oh okay, okay, alright, well maybe

I should have gotten one. I feel like this would be cool if we didn't already just have like iPhones and regular smartphones, Like this would be cool if it was like taking us from the flip phone to this. But I feel like it's kind of like a step backwards a little bit. Yeah, it's it's you're reintroducing Jenko Janes and like, I get it. There's like a nostalgic sort of uh want here for some people. But this

isn't a great investment for most people. So but I guess they price it's so high that it's just just for people who are really rich to think it's like nostalgic. I don't know who the audience is. Yeah, is it? Yeah? I can't imagine paying fifteen hundred dollars for any phone personally. No, that's you gotta be you gotta like own a museum and yeah, you know what I mean. Put that next to a Picasso, I guess, and just these are both

art that nobody else could afford. Yeah, when me and my wife are out at the grocery store or something, it's like, produce is really expensive. I'll be like, and I made this joke's Vanessa yesterday too about something. I'd be like, does this thing come with WiFi? Um, that's like kind of my go to joke, and this phone, I guess actually does come with WiFi. WHOA, So the joke doesn't totally work, but just my way of saying like, yeah,

you gotta give me more. Yeah. When it when it comes to like technology stuff, it feels like the joke is it doesn't work as well with technology when everything has why I find out. Okay, so that's a nostalgia for you, Lankston. Jonah, it sounds like it's a nostalgia for you. Yeah, it's I don't want it. It's too much money. I don't Yeah, it's it's a nostalgia just why Yeah. Um, I would say it's a nostalgia from me to um, although I'm curious if the price point

comes down a little bit. You know, I'm a consumer. I love products so so, but for the moment, it's a nostalgia for me as well. So I think we got to nostalgia's and a gues stalgia. Yeah, and I think we're all agreed on all of them, which is pretty impressive on the same page, on the same page. Totally. We we synced up and we we made it happen together and I like that. Yes, same well, Lenkston, thank

you so much for being here with us today. It was such a delight talking to you and what a pleasure. Is there a place where people can find you other than your wonderful podcast. My mama told me, yeah you can. You can find me at Lengthston Kerman on all platforms. It's just Instagram, Twitter that that it's at Lengths Thon Kerman and yeah, you'll find me. I'll be there. That was really fun, Vanessa, Thanks so much to Lengths and

for joining us and every and for listening. If you enjoyed that, please subscribe to the podcast and keep an eye out for next week's episode of How Did We Get Weird, where we will discuss more stories from our child Nice to Dumping Left, where we would discuss more stories from our childhood and cultural touchstones like and one mixtapes