A Closet Full of Robert (with Dewayne Perkins)

to You want to know how to read Nick. If you can sing him play a piano, you can learn. If you can freestyle a song about dolphins, you can learn to sound out this shell silver Stein. Stop pretending like you're the victim here a killing racist pelt stuff. Can't tell me yea, yep, there it is. There it is.

Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another sensational episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where we dive deep, deep into the world of black conspiracy theories and we finally work to prove that Isaiah Washington is a descendant of George Washington, mostly in his raging homophobia and deep desire to revive slavery. That is their connection, that's their blood. That's the thing that their family believes in. It's probably on a crest somewhere that Isaiah Washington wears when he

does commercials now for I think diabetes medication. I think that's more or less what his career has been reduced to. The man's not doing well. But he's a Trump supporter, and you got to respect that, don't we don't we folks, don't we have to respect isaia In Washington and his political beliefs. I sure beliefs. Though. I'm your Hostlanks and Kerman. I'm happy to be here as always. I have an exciting guest for you all. He's hilarious. You guys know

him from writing on Amber Ruffin Show. You know him from writing on Michelle wolf Show. You know him from fucking being hilarious on Comedy Centrally so funny. You guys are gonna love him. Please give it up for Dwayne Perkins. Hello, clapping, a little clapping for you. Love that good. And we're all miserable, but those class make you feel a little less alone, and that's kind of nice. Alright. I felt

alive for two seconds. Thanks. Well, let's take that liveness right out of your spirit, because you came to me with a conspiracy theory. You brought us a conspiracy theory that that I would say, is one of our more controversial picks. It's one that's gonna cause some stir in the audience at home that they're gonna feel something in reaction to what you chose. But you said, my mama

told me Kelly didn't do it. And multiple times, and every time, like recently within I would say quarantine, she has tried to bring up this conversation, and each time I've been like, wait, okay, hold on, hold the phone, because what you're saying to me is your mom, in fact, did say this to you. This isn't because we just frame it. My mama told me. It doesn't have to be your mother. My mother literally has to Jesus Christ, my goodness. Well, let's start there. Why why did she

say this? She keeps bringing up the fact that she grew up with Sparkle okay, and she didn't like her, so she must be a liar, okay, all right? And I was like, man, that's that's not how this works. And she was like, well, I know her, And I was like, but that's not this is not an indictment. I love that. I love that her entire instinct is well, Sparkles a lion hope. So as long as Sparkles involved in this, I know my dear friend Robert couldn't have

done anything. She literally calls him Robert. She does not call him, of course, call him Robert since since my childhood. And I was like, do you know this man? And she would say she did, but I don't think she did. Oh wait, she so she claims that she has in fact Matt Robert. Yes, she was like I know Robert and I was like how, and she'd be like, you know, I know Sparkle not the same. A lot of people know Sparkle, and a lot of people don't know r Kelly.

This is not like a permanent like tether to the two of them. Most people don't even know who the fun Sparkle is anymore. I think, yeah, I mean, she's not like at the front of anybody's mind. I don't think unless you're watching that document And she watched the documentary and she was like, well, people wanted money, and it was just like a lot of her just doubting everybody except the man who wow, Okay, so how let's start there. How many and we're not starting anymore, we're

in this ship. But how many episodes into the documentary did your mother go? I don't even think she finished the first one. I think she was just like, you know what, this goes against what I think, and I don't have the room to change. Sure, And that makes sense because there's no way you may get to episode six and then at the end you go, you know, I still don't think he did it women, and I

think he's still pretty innocent. I think as soon as she saw Sparkle, she was triggered and she was like, nope, that's fair. Do you know how she knows Sparkle. They grew up in the same neighbor, Okay, so they were like, they went to school together, and she was like, yeah, I grew up with with her. And the whole time she was a line. How just a line? You know? You just can't you just can't trust it, which is wild. It's wild. It's wild that your mother is using that

as justification for our Kelly being innocent. But alternatively, the fact that Sparkle is a lying hole does not necessarily make him anymore innocent, And that's sort of the point like she could in fact be a lying hole. I don't know Sparkle personally, but I'll go with your mom on that maybe she is a lying home. But that doesn't make the man not a pedophile. It just means

she'd be lying sometimes. That's the point that I made to her, And then she, of course would bring out deeper things which I would then have to be like, oh no, that's crazy, where she basically saying like you know, like everybody knew, and I'd be like, yeah, but that's that doesn't anything. Yeah, we are sure, but like that makes it worse, right, that makes us complicit. That doesn't make him innocent of anything. Her thought is like, well, if we are new and anybody's saying nothing, then why

are we trying to take him down now? And I was like, you know, time, time because a concept and you know we don't control it. You know, trauma to even feel exponentially heavy on your spirit after a while. Yeah, And like also like R Kelly was not like thriving where it's like now you gotta take him down at his height. It's like, no, his height was a while ago. Yeah. No. R Kelly admittedly has already said he's broke. He said, you know, y'all are just trying to take down a

broke legend, is what he refers to himself as. So, yes, this certainly is not him and at his height by any means. And maybe she's just like, I don't know, like I get being like on the fence about his music and be like, oh, I really like this song and he's a bad person, But you can't just be like on the fence about like him just out here like being a pedophile. And that's not like that's just

like a shower. And she recognizes that, I think, but she just refuses to acknowledge any of the implications of right that, if I'm hearing you correctly, it's not so much that she's like fully denying the possibility that he's a pedophile. She just doesn't like that that makes everyone around him and his music bad. That like, he could be a pedophile, but why we got to stop bumping the songs, why we got to stop enjoying the character that he's created. She basically says, like he's a pedophile,

but it's not just him, it's everybody. So it's not like he shouldn't be the one that's just in trouble. Sure, And I'm just like, but we gotta start somewhere, Like that's a great first step. Holding him to some level of accountability would be uh, it would be a joy. It would be a great step forward in the way

that we deal with these problems. Yeah, it's like she like blames him and I'm like great, and then she would like keep going to be like, but we should also blame the parents and the girls, And I'm just like, you should have stopped like at the first one, like, let's just like handle one thing. Well, let's let's let's backtrack a little bit, because I think that some interesting

stuff is coming up in this. I'm curious to know when she first said it to you, because it might, at least from what you're saying, she's been saying this for a long time. Right when she first said it to you, was there any part of you that thought maybe she was correct, that like, oh, maybe he didn't do it, Maybe he's not the bad guy that the world is telling me he is. No, not a single moment,

it was just like so obvious. Like growing up in Chicago going to high school, R Kelly was like the candy man like there was just like Lord, like you just knew the nigga would be NPC cruise about Ken trying to get some girls, Like that was just like a thing, and like, yeah, that's a rape man who got good music. I didn't like, So there was never a doubt of like he didn't do it. I just didn't know that. Like people I wasn't listening to his

music because of it. I just thought that like within the circle that I was in with their like life and like, yeah, we all know, like he made good music, so like these are two facts that just exist. He makes good music, and yeah, yeah, I think that makes perfect sense. The girl he paid on on tape at least went to my high school. And so it was one of those things where it was like, yeah, we all knew, but we're not unreasonable. We're still gonna step in the name of love. Like it's what am I?

What am I better than the three songs that we got for our problem? You know what I mean? That like everybody wants to like the world's greatest makes me feel good about Yeah, there, you asked me to take that away. And also it's just like if the government ain't doing like a kind than doing ship. What am

I gonna do? Right, Yes, And I think that that's something that to your your earlier point, we had to learn along the way, right, Like I didn't learn that, Like, oh, I have some accountability in the way that he progressed is or doesn't progress, and I can actually make adult choices, whereas when I was a kid, I'm like, fucking man, I don't know. He's a bad dude. He paid on that girl, I know, but we'll be all right, We're

gonna keep keep dancing. That was my exactly. I think it like my uncle's had that tape just like next to like the normal like DVDs, like it would be like blade and then like the piss tape. And I'm just like that's crazy that, like this is so casual. This is child porn, right. That's also fascinating because as a child, I don't think it was ever presented as child porn, and it was not our colloquial circles, right, Like, I'm sure in court they're calling it child pornography. That's

what he got arrested and charged for. But ultimately everybody I talked to it was just like a tape with a girl getting pete on and that's fucking nuts. Were not. It's insane that that was the narrative, just like you know, that's this little girl just tycle regular. It blows my mind to think back to those times to be like, damn,

I didn't question. I remember very vividly having conversations with like girls that I knew whose biggest takeaway from the R Kelly tape was that he had a big penis more than the fact that he was painting on a child. That they were like, I don't know R Kelly hanging though I let R Kelly was like, whoa, this is problematically as fun, but also we're four teams, so who knows. Yeah, we didn't have like any sense of morals. Clearly, it was just like you know happened. I think I I

just wanted one of those sweet big paenises. I was here and about. I didn't know that that that big penis came with a cost, you know, And I was just like too busy trying to say, like, you know, let me pretend to like titties so I don't get beat up. I had to worry about some girl getting piste on. Unfortunately, But of course now there's foresight. I'm like, I don't like ditis being girls. Yeah, you gotta learn something.

You learn a lot. What do you think it would take to finally turn your mother in the in the other direction on this whole r Kelly scenario. Is there anything in the world that could happen that would finally bring her around to being like, all right, fine, he's a bad guy. I think in her heart she knows, and I think she's just at a place where if she admits that, she's just gonna lose all faith in humanity.

So I think she's like clinging on to this like idea of like everything I love can be bad, right, and just like look, lady, So maybe she needs like a legit therapy so that she can find other things

to cling to. That's not n but yeah, yeah, she just needs like the process because when we talk about it, whenever she brings it up, I'm like, yeah, you don't want to do this because like I'm not the person to bring this up to because I'm not nice about him or this situation, And it always gets to a point where she can't deny it that she's just like we gotta stop talking. Just like I don't know why you write it up. I don't like talking to you anymore,

so I'm gonna walk away. Yeah, I get that. I do think that that is one of the more complicated elements of all of what's happening in society, right with like cancel culture, and cancel culture is a weighted term at this point that comes with all kinds of weird connotations. But I do think that at its root, what we're asking people to do is a super complicated ask inside of what should be basic morality. Right the basic thing is this person is bad. You shouldn't want them to

be in your life. But what we're also trying to get people to do is undo every memory, every connotation, every connection they have to the past that relates to this person. And so maybe some of the the ask, maybe some of the starting point of this is not being like that dude's bad. You gotta like erased his music from all of your memory and more be like and that dud's bad. So maybe you know, try to filter it out. Let's let's wean you off of of kills,

you know what I mean? Yes, Like I was like first step, it's just like you can't victim blame and then she was like okay, and then I'm like that is a step, like you are learning you you still are not where I need you to be, but like this is a step, but like yeah, because like I also have to recognize just like resource wise and like I don't you don't think like me, I've done a lot more work, just like being like black and gay.

Very early on, I had to like get to a point in there, like I cut any of golf at any moment, I don't care. And she just like she did she didn't have to deal with that, Like she just wasn't there, and I'm just like, okay, I will recognize like where you are in your journey mentally and like emotionally, but also move quicker because into that, Let's just start her off, get her to a point where she can go, you know what, that that that sparkle, she a line hole, but that line hole is a victim.

And then if we can just get her to call that line hole a victim, then we can start to introduce conversations around hey, maybe you shouldn't want to hear that song anymore because this human produce that song off of the blood and tears of poor children or whatever. The funk it is that he used for inspiration. I have to like kin mentor like okay, take the blackness away for like two seconds, like look at him. Is just like a regular ask, like don't think it, like

we ain't trying to bring no black man down. This is not that Like if we are just talking within blackness itself, blackness is now not a factor. Now judge this man. Yeah, and there you go, I think. And that's a and again that's a hefty ask, right, because because what we're talking about is generations of men who have been, you know, at least through various forms of evidence, have been falsely accused or connected to things that we

know are not true. And so now your mom is doing math that doesn't belong in this equation, right, She's sitting here and looking at R Kelly like Emmett Till and that ain't that ain't the same vibe, not at all. I'll be honest. Em Mat Till's music sucks, but he was an actual victim who deserves to be defended, whereas R. Kelly makes jams and it's a fucking monster. He was on the soundtrack to the Batman movie, and wright, is that what you know r Kelly best Ford has been

on the soundtrack to Bid. You could have named any song and you're like, he was on the soundtrack to Batman, you know, the worst Batman that is a hero for white people, and he was on the soundtrack for that, so he was in the heart of that is very true.

One of the things that I I sort of found as I was like unpacking, and we'll get into the research and a bit, but one of the things that I immediately found is a lot of people making that exact same claim, not about the Batman soundtrack, but just generally that like, I don't know, he made a lot of songs that like literally frame the way that we think about music. It's kind of hard to just be like, hey,

fuck him forever and always truly every graduation. Like it was just like he made music that was like imbued into like the culture of blackness, which is like very difficult because you are seven year old childs to being like, you don't know, who are here pissing on people on children, on on literal children. What do you think it's gonna take for Chicago to fully untether themselves from Mark Kelly. Is it possible for the city of Chicago to finally

like make peace with what he's done. I don't think it would be into that whole step in generation dies. Okay, So you're looking at them like like conservative voters, You're like, they just have to die off and then we can. Yeah. I just I think it's gonna change like he has maybe because the whole he has on Chicago is like supernatural, and I just don't think it's gonna go nowhere until it's just like dissipate. It's like he has to die.

All them people gotta die. At one point. R Kelly would just be like people we don't know about because everybody did. Okay, so just anybody, anybody in a flowing linen suit has to has to die away. Anybody who's ever stepped to a song has to die off, and then finally will be free of R Kelly and all of his burdens. If you own Stacy Adams, yea, if you've ever shut some sunflower seeds in your hand like you're about to roll dice, you gotta die. Otherwise R Kelly is always gonna be here yep K and g

is gonna go out of bud. That's what it's gonna take and we're gonna take a break and we'll be back with more Duwayne Perkins and more. My mama told me, and we are that we're not gonna let Joe Biden and Kamala Harris cut America's meet. That's that's yeah, We're back here with more Dwayne Perkins more. My mama told me. We're still talking about that sinister acts are Kelly performed on many many people and the people who still defend him.

Is there a possibility in your mind that R. Kelly is being sort of mistreated in any of this process, that like there's any of this that has been ConFlat did or brought to a larger scale than what he deserves. I don't know when when you think of it like macro versus micro, Like, there are some instances where I'm like, sure, is this black man not receiving? Like if this was a white man, would he be treated differently? There are moments like yeah, yes, obviously because niggas don't like nigga's

like that's just like what the system is. But also on like a personal level, I'm like, ah, you know how life works. Yeah, Like I like there is a sympathy symbolically for a black man, but not for him, like, but as a symbol I'm like, I get it. Also, you cancel that out because you are a pedophile. Like I can't like rectify that within myself, but I can't like see like speak about it on like in a greater sense, but like personally not Yeah, no, I think

that's fair. I think personally it would be a different conversation if R. Kelly were able to express any kind of remorse or self reflection in any of this that like, even and this doesn't excuse any of the choices, but even if you were able to go, like, yo, looking back on it, maybe I shouldn't have married that fifteen year old. That's inappropriate, and it was a different time in America, blah blah blah. Like then I could at least begin to understand the processing of a person like that.

But as it is right now, it's just a dude being like, Nope, nope, the video you have ain't real. Any documentation you have of me doing stuff that you don't agree with, it ain't true. It's like, okay, bro, you're that's just sociopathic. That's like if you're not living in reality. So we can't even like pretend to have sympathy for you because we don't live in the same place. So like my sympathy and real because like we are in different dimensions, sir, if you can still sit here

and be like, what that's not my face? Who mel Yeah, I know all of them personally, but like, okay, she's in my basement, but so what no, so what what y'all don't all have changed in your basements and little glass cupboards where you keep people wait, not people, just in general people. I don't have the pool table. People like pool table the basement. That's why she was done. There is a pool table with a people's size compartment

in it. I don't understand what the problem is. Okay, let's get into some of this research, because in researching the you know, R. Kelly didn't do it of it all. I think one of the ways that I could have gone about this is to do what we already know and go down the list of the facts that sort of proved that he absolutely is a rapist, is a pedophile,

is a bunch of other creepy heavy words. What I thought was a little more interesting is to dig into some of the research of people who are still defending r. Kelly. So there are people like his sisters who even as of last year, came forward and said that they still believe that he's completely innocent and they're hoping that justice has served. There are fans and former co workers, if you will, or people on his record label who have

come forward. There's even this girl, Dana Jackson, who has been seen multiple times outside of Robert Kelly's court cases holding up a sign that reads hashtag him too, which I love. I love that so much that that is layered that is I'm just like, where did her thought start and how did it get where it landed? Well, let's begin. I think where it started was hashtag me too.

And he was like, okay, but that's about women, and I don't know, and that's primarily about obviously it implies that other people could be a part of it, but no, the movement was started by women about the injustices being brought on to women. But Robert is also being treated unjustly, and he's more important than women, and so he needs his own hashtag separate from these women, but also incorporates the tone and the language of this other hashtag. So

hashtag him too. Mm. So not only is she protesting, she's like, I'm gonna take what y'all was protesting and shipped on that as I'm doing my protests just to make that way stronger. Because him too. I think you get it. Yeah, I think you get it. And I think if you want to get it tattooed on yourself, I you know you won't get any judgment on this

side of the table. I don't think about it. I am thinking about doing something for it the holidays that maybe on the table, bring that, you know what, Bring that home to the family and see how that's got to help heal you and your mother's relationship a little bit. She's gonna want to talk to you that way. That

would definitely help us for sure. Maybe I'll get it with her, maybe we'll both get Maybe that would be her has that I love that matching hashtag him to tattoos is uh maybe the best idea of this podcast

has ever produced, and I think you should definitely do it. Okay, So, in searching for real evidence, not just sort of like these opinion based things about r Kelly being innocent, one of the things that I landed on was this article called r. Kelly and the politics of truth, and so it really is less about proving that R. Kelly is innocent, because I don't think at this point anybody in fact

can't do that. But it gets really heavy into like philosophical shit about what it means to label someone good or bad, or right or wrong, if that makes sense. So it basically unpacks a lot of ship that this

French philosopher, this dude Michael Falcott, gets into. But he basically argues something called the regimes of truth theory, and this regimes of truth theory argues that political relations surrounding truth, meaning the ways in which facts can be altered by publicly established rules or norms, subsequently make socially accepted truth less truthful. Does that make sense? Yes, I'll try to

put it in less weirdy wordy wordy words. What he's saying is I think that, like what we understand to be true, the sun is hot, right, Like that is a standard truth out in the world. The sun is in fact hot, But the reason we would call this hot is not always the same that if we ask a person from like ancient Egypt, why it's hot, they would say that the sun god ra made it hot, right, Like that's his way of like expressing his power and

love for the earth. Whereas if we were to ask a physicist today, they would bring up a bunch of stuff about like helium and hydrogen atoms and the explosions and mixing and blah blah blah. So all they are both true to the individuals. Politics and circumstances and history change the way that we understand those truths is dictated by point of view exactly that's exactly right. And and even more so just point of view. It's history and culture mixing into that point of view that makes it

so complicated. So now that brings us into understanding what are kelly situation is. And one of the things that they argue in this article is that R. Kelly exists in a time where some of the things that he's understanding to be true or right or wrong, or even the world is socially accepting as norms, are in fact normal for that period. Right. Yes, I feel like you're not bought into this, and you won't say it. You're trying to be polite and like bite your tongue through it,

and it's making me uncomfortable. And I won't sit through it. I refuse. I'm just trying, like I thought about, like this way of thinking is just like how I think normally, But the way that they're trying to use it for our Kelly is like a disconnect for me because like in my head and like I don't understand what truth he could have that could be so skewed by time, culture, context that he was still today still have that point

of view. Sure, well, I think what we could argue is that if in fact, we allowed him to go on television and sit next to a fifteen year old girl wearing matching Mickey Mouse ears and outfits, right, that there's a level of acceptance that the world offered him.

That if you are a person so detached from reality that you don't begin to recognize that like, oh, that acceptance was mostly out of ignorance and sort of like bad decision making more than it is out of like a real healthy perspective, then you can continue to behave

that way despite the fact that the world feels differently. Sure, but like, what are we supposed to do about that as far as fixing it, as far as it's like his way of thinking, If like if we're judging his actions by this idea of like, oh, well, he was made to think that, like this thing was okay because of the circumstances that he was in. Like sure, but like what then, but like what now? Are we just supposed to be like all right, that's cool. Well, well,

I'll say two things that. Number one, I think that that part of what philosophy does is just make stuff thinking and not make stuff solution based. It's like, well, how did we think about the things that we thought and why did we think those things? It doesn't actually go like and this is how you fix it? You

know what I mean? And then number two, I'll say that I don't know that their argument is to say that R. Kelly in any way is not a monster in this, but more to say that like the world, being slightly complicit in his behavior and choices ultimately leads us down the path where R. Kelly gets away with

it for much longer than he should have. Yes, I think that's kind of what my mother was saying, but in like a more good way of just being like, but look at everything goes I mean being like, yes, I've thought about this, and like, even with that context, this is a conversation that should be bigger, but it doesn't make this conversation that we're having smaller. There, we can expand this conversation to include those ways of thinking, but those ways of thinking doesn't take away from anything

that has been discussed thus far about him and his actions. Sure, and I think to that point, we could go down. We can go down uh historical train right where we say, like, well, back in you know, Socrates day, they used to have sex with little boys, and that was a way of in their mind, passing on wisdom. It was the physical act of sharing wisdom with another person, was to have sex with someone younger than you, specifically a young man, as a way of empowering them and making them better

for the world. Right, And maybe R. Kelly somehow is justified because these older generations did this thing. But to your point, the context that we live in right now doesn't offer any of those compromises. Whether we introduce the Socrates conversation or not. Are Kelly was still going to high schools to pick up little girls? That ain't said

Socrates ain't say shit about that. Yeah, Like that's like if the context that we exist in, it is not the context that the argument exists, and then we can't just like say that they're the same because we're like, no, that's not what he's doing. Make sure this is a bigger conversation that's philosophical and nature. But that's exactly what it is, is critical thing, thing about ideas, but we're not talking about ideas. We're talking about this go up

to physical places to pick up children. So like, I think that's right. We can like both of those conversations can exist, they just don't exist in the same lane because they're not in the same lane, right that. Yes, but one of those lanes has a little girl in it. Yeah, one of those lanes got a little girl in and it's got a real nice Cadillac Escalade pulling up right next to the little girl and saying, get in, a little girl, I'm taking you to the studio. Boy, I

don't know. I thought it was a pretty good riff, and I'm not gonna bite back on that. Uh, here's something else that I thought was interesting and sort of and this goes back to your mother's argument about the possibility that he could have been wrongfully convicted or wrongfully even accused. Is that nine thousand seven hundred and fifty people are wrongfully convicted every every year in the United States, nine thousand, seven hundred and fifty people are wrongfully convicted

every year. And then on top of that, only one hundred and fifty nine people are exonerated were exonerated rather in that's basically less than two per cent of the people that are going to prison for a crime they didn't commit being released and made, you know, getting their names cleared afterwards. I mean, those statistics are terrible. Yeah,

they're heartbreaking statistics. Yeah, yeah. And I do think that's also a conversation that like, I think that most people aren't equipped to think about things in such a large way that they encompass many people's feelings at the same time. M hm, Because I think that there is a way to listen to a woman when they accused a person of a thing, and then also be cognizant of like, oh,

there is another person attached to this accusation. We also have to be aware of this person's feelings as well, while still recognizing that like the person that's accusing the person of this is also going through something. And I just don't think we as people are just like smart enough to deal with that. So it's just like, yeah,

I think that's right. I think even to that point, we've created a weird language around sexual abuse where it's almost heroes and monsters and not human beings doing human

ship to each other. Right, And so at the end of the day, to your point, if someone is accused, be it wrongfully or rightfully accused of something, we're talking about a human being's experience on both sides of this thing, and we should be able to analyze it as it in that way, instead of going, oh, this victim who is now like the you know, coming forward, what a hero versus this monster who did a horrible thing to them? And we don't want to hear any words from the monster.

We can't possibly hear the monster's perspective. And there should be a balance of both of those things. We should be able to listen to a human cry out about very honest human things, and then we should simultaneously be able to hear, whether right or wrong, their defense of what they think this thing is, and then come to

a conclusion from that that truth. Yes, And I think that's why it's so difficult, because I think we'd have to similar to have I feel about everything in this country, Like you'd have to like start from the bottom to create like a new sense of speaking about these things, because even being accused, it's so loaded down that like the language on which you'd have to speak about it to get your side out without blaming the victim or like, there's just like not a language to really encompass both

of these people within this situation. And so I just think, like from job, it's just like soiled, it's just like a system. Yeah, And I think it's it goes even beyond the system, right, is that? Like when we think about the r Kelly victims involved in this, so many of the defenses, and you brought up some of them are like for even these young girls, fourteen fifteen year old girls were like she's fast, you know what I mean. She she's a loose girl, even though she's a child.

She's in it for the money. Her parents should have been watching her. They got something out of it, to be at fame or attention. There's so many different ways we can change the scope of this argument away from the actual issue, which is that forty year old man should not insert himself in that child period. It's just and that's what it feels like. Just like there's like facts to be like if we just recognize like logic

and how like the human experience work. There's no world in which we can put onus on this child when there's a forty year old man involved, Like there's just like not a situation where he should not have had more foresight than his child. So there's just like no world where I can ever like blame a child, because I'm just like, these are situations like as a child, and we've all been children. That's how you become a grown up. You understand power, like society works with power

and dynamics. Also, I understand that you're probably dumb as a child. You don't have foresight because you're a child, so you're making decisions based on the decade and some years you've been alive, whereas this forty year old man as forty years under his belt. So there's just no world where we're comparing the knowledge or the experience of

these two parties. And to even consider that child to be equal to that grown up, we're already starting from like a place of bad faith, because like that's not that's just not gonna work. I think you make a good point, but consider this, what if that forty year old can't read? What if he doesn't know what the word foresight means? Now are getting into rocky territory. I guess we could agree R Kelly's innocent. I mean, if you can't read, I really do think that cancels out

everything you've ever done. Sure, I mean he have a lot of people in the circles they can't read. But this brings me to what I would say, is is maybe the final sort of conclusion I came to in the possibility or the at least exploration of R. Kelly's innocence.

One of the things that I sort of landed on and studying all of this stuff was a theory that I'm coining, the p falls in the woods theory, right, And so many people who continue to work with R. Kelly basically claim that they maintain his innocence, not because they actually believe that he's innocence, but most of them just go, well, I didn't see the tape, so I can't prove it one way or the other. Like I can't call him guilty if I didn't see the actual

crime that otherwise would make him guilty. There or I'm gonna keep getting this money. I mean, I didn't see the Titanic, but I'm still like that ship happened. That's that terrible defense, like Nick's die and you don't be like I had to be there, just know that was shot, Like do you also think that that didn't happen? Like it just doesn't make sense. And if anybody would say that to be like, I think you can't read either.

I think you're downe right that it's it. It has a not only is it tone deaf in in its response, it also it has a level of like idiocy to it, where it's like, all right, man, so you just have to see all the stuff for you to believe that the stuff happened. You just just say you wanted more money and this dude makes great music and you're happy

to be connected to his business. It's like you're saying out loud that you're thinking capacity is that of a dog and a baby, like you like that's crazy, Like no, right now, here's a conclusion that came out of the article that I do think is worth exploring for a second. One of the things that they sort of introduced and I don't even know if this is their intention, But I'm not a researcher or a scientist, so I'm gonna make it something more complicated than I think they were

leading to. But one of the things they ask is how much of our current truth is going to remain true for the remainder of human existence? Right much in the way that you know, Socrates teaching us to have sex with little boys is no longer a truth that we accept. How much of the things that we're currently accepting as a truth are going to remain exactly that all the way down the line? Do you know what I mean? And so the big question that left me with is in a thousand years or a hundred years,

assuming we make it that long, we won't. But a thousand years from now, will we still see R. Kelly as a monster or is he going to be then like sort of like viewed as something other than a monster because of the chan ages and culture and history

that make his crimes less criminal. Sure, I also think we just like probably not gonna be talking about R. Kelly in a thousand years, um, like he was impacted, but like not a thousand years like we barely talked about Like I don't I mean like Socrates, Like it's R. Kelly the Socrates at our time. I don't know made he is to some people, um drop in the closets.

So I don't know, um, but sure, I think there's a world we look at people like what's that that man who killed everybody Kniskan, Like he just murdered everybody, and we still just he's still just in the consciousness nickuld still be bringing him up. Um sure anything may just murder everybody. He raped everybody in there, everybody, and and part of that is now. And the reason we know that he raped everybody is because I think it's some crazy number where it's like eight percent of the

entire world's population descends from Genghis Khan. That like he was so good at raping that he literally created our genealogy, our entire like family history, and we're all connected somehow to this dude. And so to your point, I think it's it's hard to know the way that we're going to view people. Maybe our Kelly won't matter, Maybe he's going to completely become like absent in the minds of

the people of the future. But if he does matter, we hope that he's at least remembered as you know, a rapist and not a good thinker Socrates if you will, rais who was on the Batman's object. There it is. We're gonna take another break and we'll be back with more Dwayne Perkins and more. My mama told me and we a that you ever feel, you know, not so fresh? Yeah, we're back there with more Dwayne Ferkins more. And my

mama told me. We're still hoping that R. Kelly isn't the Socrates of our time, but there's no way to know. We'll just have to check back in a thousand years from now when the Earth is almost certainly melted and or covered in giant hunks of ice. Who knows? You got a plan? You think you do? You have any idea what the Earth is gonna look like a thousand years from now? Um, I think it's gonna be like

a bunch of pollution. And then we as humans are going to evolve very few of us stuff, and we just we're gonna be able to like breathe, and I think the life expectancies can probably be like thirty two or something. Do you think we're going back to like Jesus time where it's like, yeah, we are going back because we're not living longer. Well Jesus, now they like layered for a very long time, like Adam was like

a million years older. Wait no, in the Old Testament, they lived a long time and lived like six weeks. They were they were like house flides. I think is is how that changed. Yeah, yes, then we're going back to that. Okay, yeah, because Abraham was liked and nineties six and they were all them kids and they kept being like, Abraham, are you gonna die? He's like, I mean at some point, but I still got stories to make up. When God, Okay, I want to play a game.

We have a fun game that a brand new game that I'm calling Trapped in the Time Capsule, like teenage girls, when you say teenage how are we talking? Okay, trapped in the Time Capsule. It's a fun game that we're gonna play in which I've pulled up a few reviews, a couple of reviews of Trapped in the Closet that were written at the time that R. Kelly produced this quote unquote masterpiece. And what I would love for you

to do. I'm gonna read the reviews and I just would love for you to give your general thoughts on them. How are you feeling about this review? Do you feel like it is a good capturing of what people were feeling or should be feeling about what R Kelly is doing? Cool? Yes, hell yeah? Okay, I'll start with this one. Ten out of ten this person, Carrot Park wrote, appear musical masterpiece. R Kelly is a horrible person, but this is amazing.

I was shocked in this unintentional comedy gold. Everything from the beat to the extreme plot points just amazing. Recommend to anyone with thirty minutes to spare. But after chapter twelve sucks your thoughts, so you're agree it's it's genius, but also yes, yeah, and then after twelve I was like, this too much, I have to say, and this is very bad that that I'm thinking back on it. And two thousand and sixteen, I did like a live singing

I trapped in the closet at Second City. Was like a bunch of people and it was like a whole thing, and it was so fun now in hindsight, and like that was very recent. What the funk were we doing? But it did provide like comedy and like drama. It was very fun to do, and I think we just ignored the fact that it was from him, which is bad. Yeah, I similarly, uh much in the way that we find ways to sort of have fun with the r kelly

of it all. I used to do a joke where I talked about the girl who went to my high school getting paid on and how I was, you know, you find ways of existing in this trauma whatever. And I then later sort of reflected on that, and it felt, uh this tasteful, not not in that I don't think we should be able to laugh at that stuff. I actually think that we should a hundred percents should and I hope that we find ways to find comedy in it.

But I do think that some of the comedy needs to be coming from the person experiencing it directly, and not just a nigga who borrowed a pencil from a girl and being like that's funny, I'm a crag jokes about that, uh huh, Like like the intention matters, and be like why am I saying this? Like is it funny? Like? Sure,

but like who is this more like? And to that I think I I also began to take a little bit of issue and doing that in front of white audiences, where it started to feel like, all right, there's a lot of victims in this joke, and y'all just they're all black, and y'all just laughing at them in a way that I don't love. So maybe that's not going

to be the joke for me for a while. And I would say, what, like one thing for me personally from trapped in the closet, I was thirsty for any gay contact in the moment like chucking them came and I'm like, it's surprisingly yeah, and and much in the way these reviews are describing, there's a lot of twists and turns and a lot of surprising gay moments. When Chuck screamed out he was in love, I was like, oh, yeah, what's gonna happen? All right, let's get into another review.

This is a ten out of ten as well. This one, says R. Kelly convert E. Easy to describe this one. You will either love it or hate it. Look through the comments they are pretty much all either one or ten, with only a few fence sitters. Personally, I saw this for what it truly is the funniest, most entertaining, complex and interwoven. Loved. I don't even know that word ever conceived personally. When my friend told me Keith sent me something in the post that I loved chapter nine, I

thought it was going to be a book. When R Kelly, Trapped in Clauset arrived several days later, little did I know that my life would be forever changed. Well that's an exaggeration, but I did laugh from start to finish. As far as I'm concerned, anything that can ever do, can do even half of that, deserves every award ever.

I don't they didn't proof read this at all. If you have the opportunity to see this, then do If you've heard of this film and get past the low rating and make it to the comments, then take it as a sign something has compelled you this far, So don't go away. Actively seek it out and spend the most entertaining minutes of your short life. The world needs

more laughter. Open the door. I feel like that was a little heavy handed because it went like all of that, like girl chill, like it had something like giggles like. It was fine, but I don't think it was like the best thing ever. It just felt like almost like a parody of like Tyler Perry. It just felt like very like you were in on like a joke, like oh,

this is funny, because we know what this is. And honestly, at the time it came out, I think maybe I just didn't realize like how many victims it was because I just was like, yeah, he like his great ship, but like he probably like regrets it. And then later when you find out he didn't, that's when it's like, but like during that particular period, I'm like, oh, yeah,

look he's like grown up stuff. Now. I do think to your point, there was a period where it seemed like, oh, it was just that one girl and that's that's okay, And it's like, that's not okay. It's actually still pretty fucked up. But I think the society made a choice where it's like, hi, once we could deal with one, and then it turned out it was one hundred and ninety three, and it's like, okay, that's a different conversation. Man, I didn't know what that meaning. I just made up

a random number. That's actually but I wouldn't put it past them to it. There's no way r Kelly's number isn't lower than a hundred and ninety three, and he clearly doesn't enjoy adult women that much. So I'm gonna say a hundred Okay, I said, okay, hell yeah, tell your friend. Uh there's the last review. This one's my personal favorite, and this one's a one out of ten stars. Much like the previous one alluded to, they're all either ones or tens, But this one says R. Kelly is

a disgrace to all black people. Not only that, but he is also a disgrace to the entire human race. Go away, are Kelly. You were this close to being cool, but you just had to pee on the bitch, didn't you? Didn't you? I hate you, Are Kelly, I really really hate you. I think you are this generation's hitler. You suck. In case you didn't get the idea, I'll give you some director's commentary. I hate you. I seriously do not

like this movie and the IMDb comments rule. And also I hope the so called stars of this feature understand that they will never get an acting job again. See you in porn, folks. I also feel bad about the people who worked with him on this project. Did they like No, he was a joke. I don't understand how this even exists. Wow, okay that person. I love their passion. First of all, uh really the amount of tithings that they said I hate you, yes, made it, made it,

made it very clear. There were a few parts that I was like, you're overstepping. You can't say that these people won't get jobs again because some of them. Yeah, Michael Kay Williams works, and so I'm like saying, your lane and your lanes is your emotions, which I'm I'm bored for and like, yeah, hate him. Um, yeah, I think that review. I gave it a ten out of ten. Well, I'll give it a nine out of ten because they

didn't like them overstepping to speak to the actors. They don't know what situations they ran, right, But yeah, I love I really love how much they hate it. I do not agree that he's okay depending on who wrote it, because my feelings will change. I think if if a black woman caught him the Hitler of our generation, I would be like, Okay, there's an argument there because his victims were all black women. That speaks a lot to like systemic problems with him, like culture as a whole.

M hm. So that like helps me there. But if it's not. I just want to know, like, what have your life been to like that? This is the person I'm like, so, what are like these other people like that? Bar? Like they said that bar? So I'm just like, okay, so people who are like more terrible than him? Who were who you got? Like? Who? Yeah? The deck. I will say that it and I could be wrong, but it felt like a white person wrote it. And that's how well calling him Hitler felt a little bit like

come on, big dog. We could point out a few more Hitlers before we get to R. Kelly. I know he's not a good guy. I'm not saying there are you know, he's not Hitler Adjason, but there are a few white options for you to go down the list on before you get to Art Kelly by you know, including presidents. Even if they said like Hitler too little black women, I'd be like, okay, that sense you study all right, But just like generally, I'm like, okay, you

you that's too broad right there. So again, based on this review you're giving Sky Captain, you're saying a not out of ten, largely for passion and not necessarily for accurate I'll take it back. I'm now aiming at like a seven, because now I do think that they are Caucasian, and that does paint it differently for me. Okay, that's fair. Uh And you know what, I can't argue with you.

I think a seven seems reasonable. Thank you for your passion, but maybe do a little bit more research before you go calling the nigga who was on the Batman soundtrack, Hitler, because they let Hitler about Listen. I've listened to every Batman soundtrack and not one song from Hitler, not one. M This is great, Dwayne. Thank you for being here, Thank you for doing this. Could you tell the people at home where they can find you what cool ship you have going on? Oh? Yeah, yeah, you can find

me on Twitter. It's just Dwayne Perkins. It's d e W. Because there's another stand up comedian that has my same name and I'm not him. And then our Instagram is duyne K Perkins. Um yeah, was Friday's on Peacock? I like that Black Woman's Hell Yeah? Watch the show? Follow him on Twitter and Instagram and as always following, like, subscribeing, and say nice things or horrible things about the podcast.

I enjoy both. And if you would like to send us drops or cool thoughts or conspiracy theories of your own, please send them to my Mama pod at gmail dot com. I would love to hear from you and follow me on those platforms Instagram and Twitter. If that's some ship you're into, I'm not gonna follow you back. I'm a sick oh that way, but I'm happy you're following me and I didn't have to say any of this last part. Okay by because my crop chips in your qual bears

are racist. The money stuff I can't tell me