I didn't learn as till I was fifty four years old. If I had known this way back when, I would literally not have been a walking red flag for most of my life. I would not have taken my stress out on my family. I would have been more peaceful and more powerful because I had no idea how much power I'd given to other people.
And that was the incredible male Robbins with a powerful realization that reshaped our relationships, her family, and even her sense of self. And she's about to share it with us. This is My Legacy a podcast hosted by me and my husband, Martin Luther King, the third oldest son of doctor Martin Luther King Junior and Coretta Scott King. Together we're caring for their iconic legacy of equality, peace and
justice for all. Plus we're joined by our good friends New York Times best selling authors Mark and Craig Kilberger. Last week we began an unforgettable conversation with mel and her daughter Sawyer. It's the first interview they've ever done together, and we were all a part of it. It was raw, emotional and filled with moments that had all of us laughing, crying, and rethinking the way we approached love, family, and forgiveness.
If you thought part one was eye opening, get ready for part two, as Mel reveals her transformative let Them theory, how it healed her and Sawyer's relationship, and her invaluable wisdom for overcoming heartbreak. Let's pick up right where we left off. Welcome to my legacy.
Mel, your new book, The Left Them Theory. It encourages people to just let control go over other people's choices. And the part that I love is that you said it helped to heal and fortify your relationship with your daughter. Can you share both the theory and how it brought you closer together?
Absolutely so. The leat thein theory is a simple mindset tool that helps you identify, literally in a moment, what's in your control and what's not in your control, and the way that you use it is very simple. If you're in a situation and some other person is stressing you out or upsetting you or offending you, or you're worried about them, or they're treating you poorly, you literally say let them because the number one thing in life that you will never ever, ever ever be able to
control is another human being. You can't control what they think. You can't control what they do. You cannot control how they feel, period, And any psychologists will tell you that any time that you spend trying to only makes you feel more stressed, out, frustrated, and out of control and the problem for all of us. And I didn't learn this so I was fifty four years old. If I had known this way back when, I would literally not have been a walking red flag for most of my life.
I would not have taken my stress out of my family, have been more peaceful and more powerful because I had no idea how much power I'd given to other people, and neither nobody does, because we don't understand how we're turning other people into the problem. And I've got very important and exciting information, and it says, if you feel tired in life, if you are frustrated, if you're stuck, if you're stressed out, if you feel like you never have time for yourself, if you're just not as happy
as you'd like to be, the problem isn't you. The problem is you're unknowingly giving power to other people, and you do it in four ways. You allow them to stress you out, you worry about and you manage what
they're thinking. You navigate your life based on their moods and their opinions and their disappointment and their guilt and their expectations, and you paralyze yourself because you're chronically comparing yourself to them and telling yourself that if they're successful or they're this, then I can't have it, and it's
simply not true. And what the let them theory does is that any situation that you're in, and you're going to use it with your family more than anybody, because I think family teaches you how to love people you hate sometimes, right, you gotta let them because you're not going to change them. And what you will learn as you start to use this is people only change when they feel like changing. People only change when they're ready to change. People only change when they're ready to do
the hard work to change. And the other piece that you have to embrace is that we think worrying about or pressuring or judging or pushing people to change motivates people to change. It's actually the opposite. If you look at the wiring of a human being, everybody has a fundamental need for control. When you're in control of what you're thinking about in your decisions and your future and
the environment that you're in, you actually feel safe. And the problem is if Martin's doing something that is worrying now, his behavior is something I want to control. But Martin has the same need to control his life as I do. So when I start to push on Martin or suggests that Martin should do this or should do that, what does Martin do? Martin pushes back because he needs to be in control. And I didn't realize that I was creating so much unnecessary friction and frustration and distance with
people in my life. I didn't realize how much time and energy I was losing, because you know, let's just take a simple example. You're at the grocery store and there's five people in front of you and there's one cashier. We've all been there, right, yes, And immediately the stress rises up inside you. And then all of a sudden, you get agitated, and then you start thinking why are
they not calling it? And then you're looking around, and then you start thinking you can run the store better than anybody, right, And now let's just stop and actually really look at what this is. This is you giving power to something that you do not control and When you do that, a number of things happen. Number one, did you notice as the stress goes up, your life force energy goes out. So you are allowing stupid, meaningless, all kinds of irritating people that are beneath you and
not worth your time and energy. You are allowing it to exhaust you, and you don't have to. And the solution is just to say let them, and immediately you feel peace because what you're doing is you're tapping into a tremendous like I feel like I've got everybody's ancestors with me. Because this is an application of stoicism, of Buddhism, of radical acceptance, of detachment, theory of literally not reacting and staying in your piece, and then something interesting happens.
You say the second part, which is let me, let me remind myself that in any situation, I have power because there are three things I can control. I can control what I think about. Next, I can control what I do or I don't do. Because you can leave the supermarket. You could if you never have time to talk to your friends, you could pick up the phone and call your friend or your grandma. You could practice meditation.
You could say a prayer if you say, let me and remind yourself that you have power, right, And so that's what it is.
And also you said, you know all of these different ancestors, you're bringing in the ancestor of Martin Luther King junior in the whole civil rights movement. Yes, because I think what people also forget is that when you're talking about the lunch counters, when you're talking about the freedom.
Writers, yes they trained. Yes, you know, they.
Didn't just go in you know, and so and I'll be non reactious.
Yes, and it was a.
Lot of what exactly that you're talking about, and let them like this is like they're going to do this. Yes, I you know, I choose, I choose how then I will respond to that. And what I also think is important is like you have to it is training.
Yes, it is.
It is you know, you have to think about it and you have to.
Yes, it is disciplined. And here's the other thing it is because a lot of people hear this and then they'll say, wait, you're just allowing people to walk all over you, You're allowing people to abuse you. And I'm like, oh no, it's the opposite, because you're actually allowing it. Now, when you say let them, it's almost like you're allowing it without allowing it, because you're saying, I see the reality here, and I see that I can't control this, and so I choose my response because I know I
do have power. And oftentimes the best response is no response. The response is peace. And we give too much energy and too much fear into things we can't control, and in doing so, we blind ourselves to the fact that you always have control. And whether you're talking about a family dynamic, or you're talking about a community, or you're talking about a world at large, I see. I find it just so sad and fascinating that we always let the most challenging and toxic behavior seem to get all
the power. But I actually think the opposite is true. I believe that the person that is peaceful, I believe that the person that understands their power. I believe the person who actually constantly reminds themselves, wait a minute, I have power here because I have power over my thoughts, I have power over my actions. I have power over how I allow my emotions to rise and fall. And it's inside that power that any single person can change something for the better.
You know, that's what because you're responding and not reacting. Yes, and responding is when you come from a place of power.
Yes. And it's also how you take personal responsibility. Let's talk about responsibility, because the word responsibility is just the ability to respond and everybody has that. And so when you really remind yourself of that, now you can be the person that changes everything. Because it just takes one person to change the energy and dynamic in a family. It takes one person who cares enough to change the politics in a country. It takes one person to just
shift everything. And if you don't like where you're at, or you don't like where your family's at, or you don't like something in a relationship, or you don't like something in the world at large, that one person is you. And as long as you give your time and energy, and you give other people power their opinions, there all
of it that none of what you can control. You are not present to the power you actually have and the time and the energy that you need to create the change that you're capable of changing.
Two thoughts come to mind as you're speaking. One of them.
It's like the serenity prayers my grandmother would always say. Our grandmother would alway talk about, you know, change the things you can, you know, forget the things you can't. Was the difference. But the second thought that came through my mind was as you talked about that, the lack of reaction. It is like the nonviolence movement. Nonviolence is not non action, and the let them is that power
to not let the negative drive your choices. But in fact, even under the toughest circumstances, you have the ability still to respond. And Martin, I think of the most extraordinary thing. I think one of the most extraordinary acts of courage. Wasn't only your dad, there's also your grandfather.
Yeah, so I think everyone knows that my father was assassinated I was ten years old. My father's mother was also assassinated in the church while playing the Lord's prayer. And again my grandfather, as a minister, had been preaching forgiveness. It's one thing to preach that, but then to have to practice it and exemplify it. Because you've gone through this situation, you're telling all your parishioners, yes, because you can say that, but now you can say, from a
personal standpoint, I haven't impacted. But this is the way I choose. I choose to forgive, I choose to continue to show up in love. And he did that many in many ways throughout his sermons, basically saying, I refuse to allow a man that killed my lovely wife nor my son to.
Reduce me to hatred.
I love everybody. I'm every man's brother. That was a choice that impacted us directly, meaning my siblings and I obviously my mom and siblings and I, even though we had learned it as children, now we had to live through it. And again a choice because we could have chosen to be angry and hostile and hateful. This is what I can control. This is how I'm gonna choose to live my life, and hopefully it sets an example.
For others well.
And didn't let hatred come into his heart?
No, he did not.
He did not allow that.
One thing I do want to say that this reminds me so much because when I speak, and I use the story a lot as relates to our nation and world, but I think it also relates to everything personal. And I talk about the story of the two wolves, heard that story, and I talk about the fact that that little girl goes up to her grandmother and says that you know, grandmother, that there is a war going on
inside of me. And there are these two wolves in their battle, and I'm not sure which one is gonna win, because one is full of anger and bitterness and hatred and hostility, and yet there's another wolf that's full of love and nobleness and peacefulness, and they're really out of battle, and I grandmother tell me what to do.
Who's going to win?
And our grandmother looked at her and said, the wolf that you feed. And I think that this reminds me let them like, we get to choose what wolf are we going to feed? We get to choose that in the world, and that's the wolf that we'll win. And we get to also choose that as individuals, and we have to decide every day what wolf we're going to be feeding.
More with Mel Robbins and her daughter about how their new book transformed their relationship.
We'll be right back afterword from our partners.
We're back with Mel Robbins and her daughter Sawyer on my legacy, Andre. The next question is yours.
Now, Sawyer, when you're writing this book together, you're actually working on a relationship, chap or why you were going through a breakup, correct, do you mind? Can you talk just a little bit about that and maybe give someone advice that is going through a very heart breakup. You know, it's particularly when you're well at any age.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
So ironically, actually I was writing the breakup chapter, or starting to write it, and that morning and then that night I got broken up with And so then the next morning I'm like, this is horrible.
I can't let them move on.
Rip delete, delete, delete, And but then I really thought about it, and over the course of a few months, like, I was so upset, and I think when someone goes through a breakup, there.
Is no good advice.
There's no toolkit, there's no YouTube video, there is nothing anyone can say to make you feel better. And what people often tell you is the generic, oh, you just have to learn to love yourself again, which at that point.
You hate yourself.
You feel ugly, you feel undesired, you feel unloved and rejected. And so I really wanted, as we continued to write this chapter together, to make sure that the person reading it actually could put as Mal always does, but put action towards it. It's not just some blank advice where you don't actually know what to do, and so we both have the same therapist and Davin smartest woman in
the world. And what Ann told me to do is well, first she explained that when you go through a breakup that it's actually you and your partner or your past partner. Your bodies and your neurological makeup is intertwined, and so actually what's happening is they're breaking patterns in your body.
And that impulse to text them fifteen times a day, or feeling like they are sleeping next to you, or you can hear them in the car, or you want to call them and tell them about something, all of those little impulses in your body are because the pattern is so locked in and interwined that the process of a breakup is actually about breaking those patterns in your body.
Yes, and it's so hardened.
So it's actually grief because when you go through a breakup, it is the death of a future or a person.
That is no longer here.
And so I think as we were writing the breakup chapter, I wanted to make sure that we had.
Really actual advice.
And so what I will tell to all of you who are listening, if you are going through a breakup, is first of all, you're not alone. And second of all is I encourage you to do what me and Mel call a thirty day rule. And the thirty day rule or reset or all of that is basically to cut contact for thirty days. And that doesn't just mean don't reach out to them, don't text them. It means you cannot look at any photos, any voice, memos.
Social media, no social media. You can snapchat and mute everything.
Because what happens, and this is what and described to me, is that every single time you reach out to them, or you hear their voice which is especially really bad,
or you're looking through past photos. Every single time you do that, it re in states the neurological pathways in your body to that convinces you that they are still around and they're still in your life, and they're not that life is no longer, and so you are basically trying every time you connect with one of those items or photos, it prolongs the heartbreak, It prolongs the grief, and so we encourage everyone to do a thirty day reset and do not reach out to them.
And that's where they let them comes in because you're gonna have to say how many times a day? Would you say?
Let them like twenty times a day?
And then do you literally block because I know, like okay mail. Back in our days, you know we could just you know, you know, block the phone number or not look at photos. So does that mean now for your age our doors, does that mean no social media?
Like?
So do you everything?
Do you physically block your social media?
Like just like you know, you can't it sober until you quit drinking.
Wow.
And while you go through that process, your body's going to go through withdrawal because you're learning how to live life without it. And that's why you have to say, let them, let them leave, let them move on, let them hook up with somebody else, and let me remind myself that they're gone. Let me remind myself that every time I look at their location or I listen to a voice memo, that I am keeping myself trapped in a life that no longer exists. And so it is
a form of grief. And the hardest thing about being a parent is that when you see somebody that you love struggling, you would put yourself in front of a moving car in order to take it away. But When you do that, you basically communicate to somebody that I don't believe you're strong enough to handle this. And so I had to let her grieve. I had to let her wear pajamas and sit in her bed for three days. I had to let her ask me to remove him
from the digital camera rotation situation. And as I'm like going pause, pause, because I'm even pausing it because I'm like, maybe looking back together, maybe look at back, you know, and so let them, let them, let them, and let me remind myself that I cannot heal for her. Yeah, let me remind myself that she is capable of moving through this. Let me remind myself it's not my job to take her pain away. It's my job to comfort her in her pain.
And what I will also say why I think the Latin theory is so powerful is obviously when you use it.
It's with my ex.
I was just saying let them constantly to myself, But you can also use it in communication because at first you are not so amazing.
As you described.
She was always trying to talk about it, always trying to say are you okay?
Are you okay?
And I would say I am trying to let you, let them, let you have your own process through this, because I know you are also losing someone in your life and something you.
And vision was going to happen.
And at the same time, I need you to let me cry and be depressed and eat bond bonds every single night and just leave me alone a little bit, and I need you to let me take a break and to not talk about it and to come to you when I need you, and I promise I will. And so I feel like you can also use it in communication, which acknowledges what you want, but it also acknowledges what I need and what I want.
Beautiful.
Yeah, it really brought us like and this is what I mean, like the process of it, of writing this book and researching this book, it really and using the let them theory and exploring it around love and stress and struggles and trying to change other people because that's what we do, right. We want we, you know, wanting someone to do better, wanting someone to be motivated, wanting someone to forgive. That's a beautiful thing to see possibility
for someone else. That's not the problem. The problem is how we go about it, and we don't realize we're working against the wiring of human beings and when you should push yourself, but when it comes to the people in your life, you actually have to let them live their lives because it creates space for true connection and change to be. I mean, after all, love is truly loving somebody for who they are and for who they're not.
And a lot of us live up here and we really are living in the possibility and in the fantasy, but we are not truly accepting and connecting with the reality of the person that we wake up next to or we sit across the table with. And all we want is to feel like the people that are in our lives actually see us for who we are. And you know, do you want to know? And oftentimes it's true, especially when we think we know best, and we underestimate
how hard people are already working. The hardest working person, for example, in a classroom is not the kid getting a's. It's the kid who's failing. The person who is actually working the hardest on their weight is the person who's unhealthy. People know when they're not thriving, People know when they're not reaching their potential. People know when they're quietly quitting on themselves. And so when you and I, with the best of our intentions, keep going, why do you keep
dating these losers? Or can't you be more motivated, or you know, why wouldn't you take better care of yourself? That just adds more pressure on top of somebody who already feels like they're not measuring up and they're in deep conflict with themselves. And when you learn to let someone cry it out, you learn to let someone learn from the greatest teacher in the world, which is life.
When you do not shield people from the consequences of their decisions, but instead you stand by their side and you believe in the power that they have to meet the challenges of their life, then you create the space for a human being to reach their own potential on their own timeline. And what happened for us is I
think so many relationships, particularly in family. I don't know how you guys feel about your relationship with your daughter, but there's that intense love and then there's that like, oh right, and we were like a death by a
thousand cuts with one another. We're constantly missing the mark a little bit, and then one of us would be offended or annoyed and then she'd go off, and then I'd go after and we'd try to talk, and then I'd try to buy or something like whatever, let's just make this go away, and you would then manipulate and be like, let's go to them all because now we're going to be like, oh my god. That I'd be mad because I'd be like, I just watched all this stuff,
and now you're not nice to me. But what were gonna say?
Oh no, I was just gonna say.
I think within a very short summary our relationship, and this is what I haven't.
Described yet, but too.
Like two years ago, I was we were doing some therapy, and I had this vision of me as like an infant, like one or two months old, and it was as if I was looking up. I was in a crib and I was looking up into this at the ceiling, and I remember wanting my mom to come, and she, like my dad, kept coming to pick me up. Or this woman who her name was Jonie Twining, who helped during the postpartum depression with her and her giving birth to me, kept picking me up, and all I wanted was my mom.
And all I wanted was my mom.
And she never came, and I honestly think that is a real memory. And when I started going through childhood, I think her working all the time reaffirm that in my mind is that I always wanted her to come and like pick me up and be with me and give me attention and make me feel like I mattered, And she was off doing amazing things.
But always away.
So it confirmed to me that, at least in my mind, that I didn't matter. And so I think then that is what created the tension between us. Is I then developed the mindset, well, I don't need you and I don't want you, and I can do this on my own, and I'm gonna go to Cambodia and I'm going to go to Asia, and I don't need any of your money or any of your help, and I'm never working for you. And and I think that at the same time, like all I wanted was to be near her and to be her and looking.
Up to her.
And it wasn't until we finally started working together this entire past year that I obviously, I think it not only brought us closer in proximity, which helps, but I think the let them theory and using the let them theory with each other is actually what healed that entire separation, because I was finally able to let her be who she is without wanting to change her and without wanting to, like, without getting mad at her all the time because of little.
Things that I thought we were annoying.
Or I thought we're disrespectful, or I wanted her attention on me versus someone else. And so I think that it wasn't until I was able to say, let them and acknowledge.
This is who she is.
She's freaking crazy and pisses me off and is the creative and I'm like the OCD organization. So writing a book was very dramatic sometimes, but it wasn't until I was able to let her be who she is and accept it and have more compassion and more of a lens into everything that she goes through every day and how much work she actually does. Oh my gosh, Like when I joined the company, I couldn't even believe how many areas and how many people rely on her and how big the company is.
And I, like my siblings don't know that. They would have never known that.
They still probably will never know that because they don't see her in her everyday element.
But again, I.
Couldn't just let them, because then I felt, whenever you just let them, you can find yourself very lonely or without many friends because you feel superior.
You're like, I'm better than them. Let them, I'm the bigger person. Let them. I don't have to do anything. I'm gonna sit in my silence. I'm gonna cut off this.
Relationship, let them, let them, let them. I know I can't control you, but I'm not gonna do anything about it.
But it wasn't until I started saying let me, like I am.
I am in control of me and my mom's relationship. She's not in control of our relationship. I am, And so I need to show up differently. I need to be more open. I need to have more open arms. I need to let me. Except that she's going to rewrite the manuscript eleven times, and I'm going to let them, and I'm gonna let me.
And the corresponding thing happened to me because again, it's about peace internally and what you can control, and it's about learning to allow people to be who they are and see them, perhaps for the very first time. And I think it's very easy. As a child, I know I did this with my parents to forget this is their first time being a human being, this is their parent that you can only give people what's been given to you. You can only meet someone as deeply as
you've met yourself. And I think it was Oprah that tells a story about how you know if you're a person that needs a gallon of love and somebody has only a quarter cup to give. If they give you the quarter cup, they've given you everything. It just didn't feel adequate for what you needed, which is that mismatch I'm talking about. And so it creates so much more compassion because it forces you to really see people for who they are and who they aren't, not through the
lens of judgment, but through acceptance. And then when you say they let me part, it is true. I am responsible for our relationship, just like she said, She's responsible because I'm responsible for the energy that I bring. Just like your grandfather said, I'm responsible for the peace inside me. Why on earth would I give it to this person? And so I'm going to take the power back because
that's where the power lies. And so what I started to notice, because just like my creativity and ADHD drives are absolutely bananas her intensity and the Excel spreadsheets and the this is like, I can't think like that. And then she would get all front and I'd be like, let her, let her go upstairs to a room and remove herself because she needs to, and let me not
go try to solve this. And what I also noticed is that when I wasn't so frustrated or there wasn't a lot of tension between us, I actually saw what I wanted, which was I wanted to hug her. I wanted to go check on her, not through a place of changing, but through loving.
One of the things that I keep feeling as I'm looking at both of you, but particularly you Sawyer, is that the whole the Rich Shoes and at the end of the Wizard of Oz and when she was told that it was within you, all alone, exactly all your powers always yeah, And so that I feel like the journey, even that you've been on up into this point, one of the things I just want to say to you, I just you know that the power has been within you all of the Thank.
You, grab a refill on your coffee or tea, because you won't want to miss the rest of this conversation.
We'll be right back. You're listening to my legacy.
We're back with Mel Robbins and her daughter Sawyer Andre.
Go ahead and take it away.
Okay, So menopause is having a well deserved moment, right and gen X and younger women are really starting to have a conversation about everything that goes with it and to know that we need answers. So as you are someone that's asking all of the experts and all of those aging questions that so many women have been too embarrassed to ask for too long, I think that we think that everything stops at childbearing and that's it. And then you know, so, how have you seen this empower
your listeners? And then what have you heard from them?
This is an excellent question. So just to give you a sense of just how important of a topic this is, Apple just named an episode that we did on menopause with one of the leading female doctors on it as the number two most downloaded and shared episode of any podcast anywhere in the world of the year this year. And the reason why this is important is because there is every single day. I think their research is eight
thousand women in our menopause. And what I didn't know because this is like a gigantic what how could I get through life? And not no simple facts like this, Like I had no idea that women were not actually included in clinical research until the nineteen eighties because of our hormones are fluctuating, so it can throw off clinical t trials, and even to this day, they mostly use women that are postmenopausal so that our hormones are not impacted.
And so the drugs that we're taking are almost like golf tees. The guys get the ones that are a little bigger and then we move the dosage up, but we're not actually looking at the impact on hormones, so that's a problem. Second thing that blew my mind is that if you think about a woman's body, every single organ of a woman's body has receptors for estrogen. Estrogen is like the oil in a car. It runs everything.
And women used to have a lifespan that was less than fifty years old, which is why if you look at the hormone kind of ranges of women, we peak in terms of the natural estrogen that's created in our bodies right around the child bearing years. And if you look at like life expectancy rates way back in the day. Well, most women die before they are fifty anyways, So if all the estrogen is gone, who cares because she doesn't
need it because she's dead. But by the time a woman turns, and I'm gonna get the numbers wrong, but it's something like forty years old, you have one percent of the estrogen in your body left. If your brain requires estrogen, if your muscles require estrogen, if your heart, if every part of your body has a receptor for estrogen, you want to know why it does because it needs
it to run. And so women for years have been wondering why on Earth After I have kids, am I itchy and dry and grumpy and I can't remember things? And my body temperature is like like I literally, if I'm in a cold climate and I have a hot flash, you can actually see smoke coming off my skin like it's and I'm like, I'm not mad at you, Chris, I'm just like hot, honey. And so hearing this information,
it suddenly makes sense. I'm not crazy. The body that I'm in actually has out lived the evolution of the way it's designed. And so one of the reasons why hormone replacement therapy, if it is safe for you and for the majority of women, it is is so revolutionaries because you're actually just putting oil back in the body so it can run correctly. And it starts to make
sense if you think about it that way. And for too long women have been told that they're crazy, or that they're this, or that they're making their symptoms up or this or that or the other thing, and we're not crazy. And thankfully women are now talking about this.
Doctors are going through training because you know, doctor Mary Claire Haveer, who is the person that came on, who is the medical expert you know, basically said when I was an obgen going through medical training, we literally had like a couple paragraphs in a textbook to medical school even for the clinical rotations being an obgentant. People just
didn't even know. And it turns out the research from ten years ago that scared everybody to death about replacement therapy was largely overblown and not correct, and it has been mostly pulled back, and so women haven't been given
the information. And as you know, women of color and from different ethnic backgrounds have even more discrimination toward them in terms of how these things impact you based on your DNA, based on your your heritage, based on your skin color, based on access to care, and so.
Based on how you treated when you go to care. Your symptoms are even at women of color, black women, your symptoms are even less. If you think that white women are not heard, Yes, the symptoms are just not even acknowledged.
Yes. And so one of the things that I am hopeful about is that, you know, when I launched the podcasts that I have, I just had this vision walk with a friend. You know, when you take a walk with a friend, you and I know we're gonna be walking and talking a lot, a lot, a lot. You know, we will be sharing all kinds of stuff that you're not gonna be happy about. My husband's not gonna be having.
We're to be talking about our daughters and swapping stories and advice, and we're both going to leave feeling better. We're both going to feel like we have something we want to try or do. We both feel like somebody heard us and validated how we feel. And that's all
I wanted the podcast to be. And I also was excited to put it in Boston because it literally is the world's home of higher education, and how cool would it be to have all of these people that are teaching the classes and in the labs, hop on the bikes and come on over. And that's what's been happening. And so to have doctors that the majority of us wouldn't even be able to get an appointment with to come and share information that every human being deserves and
has a right to have access to. We're talking about information that helps you live a healthy and happy life, which is exactly what you're doing here. You are democratizing information that every human being deserves to live a filled, healthy, dignified life. And you're opening up the potential of the legacy that somebody leaves through how they live it. And if you can help people do better for themselves, for the people that they care about, for their communities, you
are creating this ripple effect. And so for women, we are waking up and realizing, wait a minute, like I don't have to like you're gonna have to say let them because you get angry, right, But the power is not in somebody else being wrong. The power isn't going Okay, well, let me focus on what I'm going to think, do and say, and if this idiot is not treating me the way I need to. I can leave any appointment,
I can leave any medical office. I can leave any dining room table, any text chain, any interview, any date, at any time, and I do not have to sit here and listen to somebody in a white coat tell me something that you know is not the way I want to hear it. I have the power to leave this conversation and go talk to somebody else. I have the power to listen to this podcast and to learn what I need to learn from somebody that has studied
this stuff. And so I'm really excited because the work that you're doing and some of the topics that we're covering are truly giving people the information that they need
in order to change their lives for the better. Because again going back to why am I so driven to be a person that is warm and that is sharing information and using my life and my struggles and the things that I wish were better or that I'm screwing up as the canvas upon which I'm trying to help and I'm trying to heal and do better myself, is because if you don't know, you can't make it better. If you don't know what the actual problem is, how
on Earth are you going to solve it? And so whether it is for me being dyslexic and ADHD and not getting diagnosed until I was forty seven, and I was diagnosed the same way the majority of women are diagnosed because my son was going through the evaluations at school and I started going, oh, I looked for a whole on me, And sure enough, it turns out I
didn't actually ever have anxiety. I had dyslexia and ADHD, and nobody knew it because in the nineteen seventies when they were studying ADHD, they only studied boys, and boys present jumpie, and they have symptoms that are the exact opposite of girls. Girls get quiet, they start to get very very inward and hyperfocusing. Yes, so you miss it because they can lock in and you're like, well, that
kid doesn't have ADHD. And so there is a huge generation of women, almost thirty years of us who were diagnosed with anxiety, and our teens in our twenties, and the real issue was dyslexia. The real issue is anxiety, and this is so sad, and we can actually change this. And I also think a lot about the fact I was a public defender when I came out of law school. I for legal aid in New York City. And the
majority of people in prison have a learning disability. And if you do not have an adult figure out what you are struggling with, what adults do is they label you a problem. And when somebody is exhibiting challenging behavior, which you do, if you're sitting in a classroom and your brain doesn't learn the way that people's brains learn, or you can't communicate what you need, adults punish people who are challenging. And the fact is people do well in the can kids in particular. And it's not an
issue of motivation or capability or willpower. It's an issue of skills that are missing and simple problems that need to be solved. And so if you can change one person's life because they listen to this and they share it with somebody, then that's an incredible thing to do with your life. And if my story and my struggles and you know, look, I am happy to have struggled. Even though I caused myself pain. I do not regret that.
I do wish I hadn't caused other people pain. But if I can struggle for as long as I did, with anxiety and with patterns of behavior that were very painful to me and painful to other people because I didn't know the core problems. But then I learn about it, and now I can share it with millions of people. I will take that every day. I'll take the hit.
We'll be back shortly with more from this inspiring conversation.
What does it shall be mean to you?
It shall be? My husband and I got tattoos on our fifteenth wedding an versary and I was like, we're gonna get matching tattoos. You know we're not. And so Chris, of course, going in he had figured his out and I was panic stricken because I could not figure out what to do.
And his was really good.
Oh yes, he won, and I was so annoyed once he told me because it was so good.
He has he has the tattoo right here and it says one gate. And he used to be a ski racer growing up, and his dad always used to tell him, who passed away in two thousand and seven, always used to tell him, just take one gate like a ski gate at a time, Just take one gate at a time, Just take one gate at a time. And he translated that to like one day, one moment, one second, and he is like the most calm Buddhist zen person I've ever been. Really, yes, so present, he's a death doula.
He's so incredible. But he took letters from his dad and gotten oh and gotten in and got an eve and got a gee and got it morphed together and put on his on his arm.
And of course, being the bitch that I am, when he came and told me that profound story and you've got your hand over your heart, I was like, oh.
What am I going to do?
If I had heard it back then, I would have been able to regulate myself like me.
Exactly.
And so I was just panic stricken because we were about to go to the appointment and a friends and I'm like, I still don't know what to get, and she goes, you should get it. She'll be I'm like why, And she said, will you say that all the time? I said, what do you mean? She said, oh, you always tell me if you just put your head down and you chip away at it and you give up your timeline, it shall be. I didn't even know I
said it. And so then we get to the tattoo parlor so I'm like, okay, I do that, and I realized I didn't have a font. So then I'm on their laptop looking at the drop down menu on word, like what should I do?
And that was may I actually a moment because it's words and I have one to.
These are imagining family so we can capture.
Well, mine's on my wrist.
And mine's on the side of my right.
Beautiful, so you have three almost like the Bethlehem Star.
So your dad your acual like everybody.
The whole experience was inspired by my grandmother, my dad's mom, who she is shout out to JJ. She is actually the grandmother I went to Cambodia with and taught English with.
And she is eighty seven years old.
She's literally walks four miles every single day.
She's four eleven.
She is the energy of a firecracker. She is the most amazing human being in the world.
And she had a friend of hers who.
Is dying, was dying and she asked her friend, what do you think happens when you die? And without with all conviction, her friend had said, I'm going to be a star, and I'm going to be a star. All of us are going to be stars. If you look up at the sky at night, there's billions and billions and billions of stars. And the reason behind that is because when you go up and you become a star, a star, you can then look over all of your family members, and shooting stars are stars that travel to
other people to see different people. And so then JJ was like, I'm going to get a star tattooed on me. And she's eighty seven and so first tattoo. And so then of course when she told me, I was like, well, I need to get a star because I'm going to be a star and you're going to be a star. And then so all five of us, our entire family, Me, Mom, Dad, Oakley, Kendall and JJ, we all got our tattoo appointment and went and we all have different stars yep.
And then I put our whole family like, so I have this, I have a Sawyer star in an Oakley and Chris and me and and.
I have one star and five dots for every single one of the.
Well, it's one of my best friends who she actually is a death doula really and she was with my mom when my mom passed, and it was the most incredible gift that anyone could give to give us. And she also has something she created called Star Day and it's it's when you celebrate your ancestors on the day that they went to go back to live in the stars. So I need to get you wrote a children's book and it's and so yeah, I'm telling you we are well, well, you know, I'll get you the whole book and it's
all about that. And then you celebrate that day that they went back to be in the stars, and so you you eat their favorite food and you you talked about.
Oh my gosh, I love that.
I love you.
Yeah.
Wow.
Great concept.
Well, something that we are contemplating a lot and would love to get your theory on is the difference between the Western concept of happiness versus fulfillment and fulfillment as a source from within, a source from love, and the Western concept of happiness is this treadmill that we can ever often ever achieve because we're always seeking the next thing.
Well, the cool thing about the distinction that I'm going to share with you is that it comes from someone's research. And the person I'm going to cite is doctor Tall Ben Shahar. It was one of the kind of original rockstar happiness professors at one of the Ivy League schools, and he has this concept that I love because happiness. What we get wrong about it is we believe that there is a thing out there that will make you
happy all the time. And the problem with that is once you get the thing, your happiness or your excitement or enthusiasm, whatever you call it, just disappears right away because you got the thing. And we have this relentless
need to feel good. So we're constantly looking out there and we think, well, maybe the car, or maybe you know, it's the boyfriend or the girlfriend, or maybe it's a certain dollar in the bank, or maybe it's a certain number on the scale, or it's a certain friend group or whatever that is going to create this feeling inside me that I sow not only want, but you actually deserve to feel good in your life. But we're going
about it wrong. And so he basically says, anytime you want something out there, it's like staring at the sun if you look directly at the sun, just like you look directly at your bank account and say I'm gonna be happy if I have a million dollars in that bank account. You're going to get sun spots, and you're going to be blinded and you're going to be miserable as you're trying to get it, because because you're going to think you're only going to feel good once you
get there. Instead, he says, I want you to take the sun and put it through a prism and it creates a rainbow. And when you realize that that's what's available to you right now, that's what you can bring into your life right now, that it's not really out there. It's all the things that you can take in and bring in here that truly create fulfillment.
So sorrya Martan.
What's one thing you'd want your mom to know about the impact she's had on your life.
So much?
But the first thing that came to mind is, I think growing up, I thought that my legacy was being mel Robinson's daughter, and I think in writing this book together.
And just getting to spend so much time.
With you, but it's actually a lot bigger than that, and it's the Latin theory and it's so many more things that I have not achieved, and so thank you for opening that vision for me.
I love you, I love you, and you know what I'm gonna tell you, Oh God, I had the easy part. I just had to learn to create the space for you to see it yourself. Proud of you, I.
Gotta say, I got three kids and so just listening to you and.
Away a lot for work.
To see the two of you, as you said, go through your journey, but be at this incredibly strong place together, to see you work together, create together. To hear the love in your voice. Oh my god, I love the honesty and everything about the conversation. Love them for who they are, and love them for who they are not my god. I think we can all reflect on that with our family and friends. Can't control others, you know, we just need to let them and to let me.
I love that.
And you can only meet someone as deeply as you've met yourself. And it has been such a gift for all of us to spend so much time with both of you and to have this extraordinary experience as mother and daughter and friend and co journeer on this together. So thank you to both of you for leaving an extraordinary legacy. Every single day.
Thank you, thank you for this experience. So what a beautiful experience that you've created for us to be able to dig deeper into our own experience and what we've learned, sometimes a hard way, always always amazing. Wow.
Thank you for joining us. We are so grateful to have you as part of this journey. If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe and share the podcast with friends, family, and loved ones, and follow us on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at my Legacy Movement. You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel at my Legacy Movement. At the heart of this podcast is doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the
power of connection. Produced by Legacy Plus Studio in partnership with iHeartRadio creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward, co executive producer Lisa Lyle, editing an av by Garcia creator. My Legacy podcast is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, may you find connection and inspiration to live your most fulfilled life.