Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.
That's sure, it's a heart start that's getting kill gera. This is podcasting one oh one. It is real basic.
This is community college podcasting, brought to you by this donors in the back of the room. That's right, we'll see at the Smoking Tree, we were like extra credit at.
My favorite place, the Smoking Tree. We were like, we'll take this class. We're going to audit this class, right, sure, they might try to give us a grade, right, I.
Heard the tea shirt is like really chill, Like the final is bowling. You go bowling.
The final is you have to tell the same story twenty five times.
For ten years. What a gift? What's going on?
Pick the wrong color foundation again, you're.
Going to say shirt because you're sure, like that'll looks blackt it?
I bet I look like kind of like a floating head over this table.
You do look like a mime? Yeah, there she goes.
Don't make me put my biggy little hands up in the air.
Folks, you can see those hands on Netflix listeners get up to date. Yeah, you can also watch us and be watchers. Put it on the background. So Netflix thinks we're killing it. I don't even have to look at us. That's right.
Put it on the background.
Mute it, mute it for sure. You know we should do. Let's start pushing for the way I give cookie reggae. Let's start having people put this on for their pets when they leave them alone at the house. That's right, let's game the system. We fucking love animals so much. If you put this on while you're gone, it'll make your animals feel better.
Good for your animals, it's good for numbers your children, want to leave your children at home?
Okay, we're very soothing.
We only say the F word every once.
In a while. Basically babysitters at least at the top of the show. What are you up to? Nothing? But when this comes out, I'll have watched and known what happens in the last episode of Euphoria. So I'm really jealous of my future.
Oh okay, because you're just hanging on by thread and.
I just want to I just want to see what happens. I'm hooked.
I think I stopped watching you for it, and I'm sorry, because you know I love Martha Kelly the most. Of course, I stopped watching after it. There was like some party that they all went to and things happened at it, and then the anxiety that I felt during that entire scene. I was just like, Oh, I don't have to live through this.
You're not in high school anymore. It's very stressful, it's very flawed and imperfect, but there's something about it and I'm totally not there, like demographic as an old lady.
But but it's Zandaya, right.
Yeah, So it's like she's just incredible. I mean everyone, they're incredible. Yeah, shout out to Murderino fucking mod aptoo. Oh that's right, she's right up on that thing. I know, she's so good at it.
Hi, congratulations, you're doing great.
Iris. We love you too. Iris.
See hey we met you once. That's so funny. I had actually a true crime update for you.
Oh it's okay, that's what this is. It is what we're supposed to be doing.
Sure, but we were talking about Murdoch murders and that update and basically saying to each other, we wish we knew what things meant. And what's exciting about that is because we have this podcast network. We have podcasts on here with people who do know what things mean. Okay, most recently Brief Recess, hosted by Michael Foot and Melissa Malabranch, and they went over all of this on their show, so I was like, oh, I'll just go get the
information from them and tell you. So the source of this is Michael Foot, Melissa Malabranch, and the Brief Recess podcast, which if you haven't listened to, its sood. Michael is currently an immigration attorney fighting for people being kidnapped by ice in New York City. You can follow him on TikTok. He talks about all the different things he and he's still li likes through all and like so entertaining. So farers, you're like, oh, lawyers whatever, but no, he's like, he
has a joyous he's an amazing man. And then he also started explaining things about this case where when I heard him talk about it, it's that thing of like, oh, it's so much better when somebody who knows what they're talking about is breaking the news because they do things like you know. He immediately said, this does not mean that Alec Murdoch walks free.
Okay, so what does it mean?
So the South Carolina Supreme Court vacated his double murder conviction. He's currently serving a sentence of forty years in prison for embezzling money, many accounts of embezzling money.
But their appeals were made by.
Murdoch's lawyer, and it found that a county clerk improperly influenced jurors, and so they basically said he didn't get a fair trial for those murders.
Okay.
The jury interference centered on comments that this county clerk made to the jurors telling them to watch Alec Murdoch's body language in court.
So kind of a clerk shouldn't be saying anything to the jurors, right think, So okay.
I mean clearly not if what they do can vacate a guilty verdict, that's insane. Of course, when they were discussing it, Michael and Melissa talked about how baffling that behavior was, and that, of course now other legitimate convictions can be overturned because of it, or because of a
county clerk that's interfering. Right, So apparently there will be a retrial, the stakes will be higher, prosecution could recommend the death penalty this time around, and Alec Murdoch is suing the county clerk in federal court for this influence personally issuing her. Yeah, I wonder what is her story?
Yeah?
Is this an overactive true crime fan that's like, Hey, this is what needs to be happening here. Or is it a person that's just like, Hey, I've watched this person in this courtroom for my whole career. Here's the thing he does when he's lying.
Or he is just a nosy neighbor who's like likes to chit chat.
It kind of doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter. It doesn't sound curious now.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like, how could you have something this important?
I want to see Martha Kelly play her like that's who I'm picturing Martha Kelly character.
That's so funny.
All right, well should we get into it?
The Highlights?
Yeah, we have a high Highlight now. We don't have a highlight network. This isn't Highlights Magazine. We have a podcast network called Exactly Right Media.
We should do a podcast about Highlights Magazine now.
It would be so cute.
I could read that thing forever.
Nineties magazines podcast.
Hell yeah, I think it started in this fifties or sixties, didn't it. Okay, goofhis and Gallant is not a nineties creation.
There's no way this is exactly right in media, that's correct. We have podcasts on our network, like the one I was just talking about exactly Here are some more highlights.
Yeah, this week it's the three hundredth episode of I Said No Gifts.
Yes.
On this episode, Bridger does everything he can to avoid fighting with Ellie Kemper. You know her from Jimme Schmidt the Office. She does arrive with the gift, so a battle ensues and then they talk about everything from sun burns to the latest Hona Star's suspicious death.
I missed her in the office. I was so bummed. I was like there that day, but we didn't cross paths.
So were you on the office.
In the office, our office?
I was like, how did I tell you Elvis?
I missed her in our I get that, didn't yep, I hear what you're saying. I was in our exactly right media offices. Not on the TV show The Office, Oh my God. And then over on Dear Movies, I Love You, Milli and Casey kickoff their month long celebration of Video Nasties, a famous collection of VHS tapes that were banned from the UK in the nineteen eighties and they're calling it June nasty. Yeah, as in June and nasty. That's right. First up is the nineteen sixty three horror
classic Blood Feast. You gotta love a band movie.
Yes, it's so good. Also, Millie is such a what do you call it?
Conness?
Yeah, but she's it's more than that. She's an archivist. She's an expert in movies. So she talks about it from every perspective, which is like the fan perspective, the production perspective, the time, the place, the history.
It's so great.
Also this week over on Hollywood Land, Jake covers Lucille Ball's Red Scare scandal, from the news report that exposed her former ties to a communist party to the government surveillance that continued on her long after America had moved on from McCarthyism.
I love when Desi said the only thing read about her is her hair and even that's fake. Ha. What a time macarthyism feels familiar. And lastly, a reminder from our merch department. Yes that is an el caps. If you don't have anything nice to say, you can always wear it with our fuck politeness merch. That's right, Grab the fuck politeness script unisex T shirt, koozy or whistle now at exactly right store dot com. The end, the end, All right, it's a solo week, and I'm going.
You're going to first and only, first and only and alone? Good luck?
Are you leaving? Good luck?
Layers?
Goodbye? Yeah?
And then I just put a weird balloon with my head on it here, like what was my face on it?
The blacksweater? Okay, one's heavy. So it's Pride month, yes, And today I'm going to cover a story about a horrific hate crime that would become one of the most notorious in American history. And I do think it's surprising to some people that you and I have only discussed this in a minisod. It's only been told in a minisod.
And I think part of the reason we haven't covered it is because, despite it being a hugely important story, is because you and I were of age and young women when it happened in the nineties, and it was so horrific that even twenty more than twenty five years later, it almost feels too awful to talk about. And it's such a shameful part of our US history that you and I just haven't been able to go there.
There are definitely cases that we have talked about where the actual violence of the case is so extreme and just repetitive and whatever that we're just like, we don't know how to handle this correctly, right, And especially after years of like hearing back when we don't handle things correctly, I think more and more we got more and more careful with and we couldn't not handle something correctly right.
And so I've been really nervous about doing this. Thank you to ali Elk and my researcher because this also bet a lock to her as well. So I think we'll handle it.
It's important to do it. It's important to talk about it right.
So this story is tragic, but it's also an event that completely changed the conversation around gay people in America, particularly young gay people. It led to hate crime legislation being passed, and it led to communities around the country realizing they must become safe places for their LGBTQ young
people to live their lives truthfully and without fear. But even though it's been close to thirty years, this is still an issue obviously that LGBTQIA plus people face daily, so it's important for us to cover the story, I think,
and this is the story of Matthew Shepherd. Yeah. The main sources for the story is a nineteen and nine article from Vanity Fair by Melanie Thurnstrom, as well as Matthew Shepherd dot org and a BBC article called Matthew Shepherd The Murder That Changed America by Jude Sharon, and the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So it's the evening of October seventh, nineteen ninety eight, and we are just outside of Laramie, Wyoming.
We're just east of the city. Laramie is home to the University of Wyoming, and like most college towns, it's considered to be pretty liberal for what is not a liberal state. A Mountain biker and University of Washington freshman named Aaron has just fallen off his bike just riding on some paths when he notices leaning up against a wooden fence. What he thinks at first is a scarecrow. Aaron then realizes, to his horror that he is looking at a person who has been beaten nearly to death.
He runs to a nearby residence to use the phone to call police. The victim is male, about five foot to and really slight, so at first, responding officers think that it's a young teenager. He is unrecognizable and his face is covered in blood except for the places where the tears have made tracks down his face, which is
just a heart benching detail, But he is alive. The boys rushed to the nearest hospital, where coincidentally, two other young men from town are being treated from injuries that they sustained in a street fight the night before, and so police are aware of that, and these men had been driving a truck in which police had found blood, a gun, and a wallet with an ID belonging to
a twenty one year old named Matthew Shepherd. And so it doesn't take long for the police to realize that this is the identity of the young man who is now in the same hospital, very tenuously holding on to life, and that the boys who were taken in the night before are part of this. So let me tell you a little bit about Matthew Shepherd. He's born on December first, nineteen seventy six, to Judy and Dennis Shepherd in Casper, Wyoming.
He is a friendly child, though he is bullied by his peers, sometimes for being small and relatively unathletic, and also because as he gets older, he doesn't go to great links to hide the fact that he's gay. From an early age, he's fascinated by politics. His mom's hairdresser recounts a story about Matthew when he's seven or eight years old, ahead of a local election, saying, quote, he came into our shop and told us all how to vote,
and he knew he knew the issues. We all thought he was going to grow up to be the president. When Matthew is a teenager, his father, who works for the oil industry, takes a job in Saudi Arabia. Matthew goes to the American School in Switzerland. In high school, he's elected by his peers to be a peer counselor, and by all accounts, he's easy to talk to and makes friends easily. When Matthew is a senior on a school trip in Morocco, he is violently sexually assaulted by
a group of locals. His mother, Judy, says that she felt that his trauma made him more prone to further trauma, and people could sense his own ability. After Matthew graduates high school, he officially comes out to his family, who are supportive, especially his mother, who's very close to When he's twenty one, he enrolls at the University of Wyoming and Laramie, majoring in political science with a minor in languages. And it seems like he starts to thrive in the
college setting. And he's actually chosen as a student representative for the Wyoming Environmental Council, and it's his dream to work as a diplomat for the Department of State. And so let's look at a picture of him. I mean, you and I know it's so well, it's just steered into our memories. But here's the picture of him, his
braces and just like such a sweet looking kiss. So back to the night of October sixth, the night of the attack, Matthew had gone to a meeting of the college's LGBT Association where he helps plan events for the upcoming Gay Awareness Week, which is set to begin the
following Monday. And after the meeting, Matthew says he plans to go to a bar called The Fireside, but no one else seems up for it, so he goes a and arrives around ten pm, has a few drinks at the bar, and it seems like he's also hanging out with two regulars named Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson. Both are around Matthew's age, but they are not students at the university. They're actually locals known to be currently having
issues with meth addiction and are possibly dealing meth. And they're known to frequently get in fights and get in trouble, so they're more local troublemakers. The detail that gets debated is whether or not Matthew had also been a user of math or possibly involved in the math trade, and whether he knew Aaron and Russell prior to this evening, And it's this whole controversial conversation around it, But I
don't think it's important to the story. And also we don't need him to be a perfect victim or have this in any way means he deserved something like this to happen to him, So I don't even want to.
Talk about the Well also there I do think there is, and this is you see it online all the time, but it is this kind of need that some people have to be like I don't have to empathize with this because and then they find their reason. It's a very sad kind of human denial of like I can't handle this or I can't be made to think more than one way about this.
Topic, right, right, one hundred percent. But the story that most people, including the police and Matthew's family, believes that Matthew did not have any significant prior interactions with Aaron and Russell, and whether or not he had a drug problem, which is unclear, is pretty immaterial to the rest of
the story. So witnesses at the bar see the three men leave together around midnight, and at one thirty in the morning, according to Aaron's girlfriend, Aaron returns home covered in blood, saying he has done something horrible, that he may have killed someone. Aaron says that he and Russell had made plans to pose as being gay so that they could rob Matthew and that was the whole point,
and they drove him to a remote area. But even though Matthew gave them his wallet, which by the way, only had twenty dollars in it, it's just so fucking senseless. They tied him to the fence, beat him brutally, and repeatedly with the handgun and took his shoes so he
would not be able to walk and get help. And so then Aaron and Russell head towards Matthew's home with it seems like plans to rob it because they had Matthew's key and had taken it from him, but they get sidetracked in that street fight on the way, and oh, the street fight was real. It's real. On the way, they get in a street fight, which seems like they were the.
I think it's probably pretty safe to say that Matthew Shepard was not like friends or associates with these people exactly.
You're right. It's just people wanting to not have to care as much about other people. So Russell is caught and taken to the hospital. Aaron escapes and runs off and goes home tells his girlfriend what happened, but then he goes to the hospital where the police catch up with him and they find that evidence in his truck.
So in his official confession to the police, Aaron says the motive was robbery and that they had tried to kill Matthew because they believed he could identify them, but his girlfriend says that the fact that Matthew was gay. It was a key reason they wanted to hurt him. And this is like something that's just debated since then
and to this day. And he doesn't admit it on the official record at the time, but later in two thousand and nine, Aaron tells a journalist quote the night I did it, I did have hatred for homosexuals end quote. So it's from the actual perpetrator who says that. So what's the debate?
Sorry are people saying? The debate is it just was that they were trying to rob him and it was not.
Associated with that.
Yeah, that then they would have just robbed him, right, right. It's so frustrating when you hear all of that, and you know where it's just like, sure, if you want to entertain every possibility in the world so that there is no actual accountability, then you can introduce ideas like that all day long.
Yeah, you know, you're bullshit. If you're the one introducing these reasons why you shouldn't have to feel bad for someone who was murdered, then you need to look at your own self. It's like it's about you. It's fully about you.
Look, there's a thing called projection and you need to look it up at the library.
Yeah. So in the background of all of this, let's talk about this, there is already a lot of big conversations going on in the country about the visibility of gay people. I think that the nineties is kind of when it started to be accepted in mainstream culture a little bit more. There was like a tipping point when gay people and gay stories are being fully integrated into
mainstream culture and into the media. In nineteen ninety four, Wilson Cruz is the first openly gay actor playing an openly gay character in My So called Life, So that's nineteen ninety four. Of course, Ellen Degenerous in nineteen ninety seven comes out both as her character on the huge sitcom Ellen and in real life on the cover of Time magazine. So if you're not old enough to remember it, that's a good indication of what the culture was like.
It was such a big deal that someone was coming out both in show in person, that it was in the cover of a magazine and front page news, And there were plenty of people who were outraged and advertisers who pulled out from that episode of Ellen because it was so different.
Now I know, and it's beautiful how different it is now. But to think about that time is so bizarre. Whereas like when you started talking about like there was representation a little bit here and there, it's like, right, you get like one funny, over the top pay guy who had to be mocked the whole time. Like the representation was so skewed and weird and bigoted in a weird way. Although Wilson Cruz really that was a watershed moment.
Yeah. So I was a teenager at the time, and like we use the we called people gay as a insult. That was like, oh yeah, but I feel like people don't. The F word was used all the time, just casually. And I'm from a really conservative town and the only like out gay people were like the goths, so it was already them being like totally ostracized was the only way you could come out. So yeah, and I had some cousins and friends who were, but it was not mainstream at all.
No, it was no. Everybody had to go find their niche to go be in and be out of the mainstream, right because you weren't going to be a quarterback and you weren't going to be the head cheerleader. So go find the other people who are outcasts. And I'm talking about the theater department.
So slurs were regularly and casually used in society and in the media. The AIDS crisis stigmatized gay people as it was thought of as a gay quote gay disease. The quote gay panic defense was a real fucking legal strategy that was frequently used, and it would allow the perpetrators to claim temporary insanity or extreme fright upon discovering a person's sexual orientation, which often resulted in lenient sentences
or acquittals for assaulting or murdering LGBT plus individuals. So if you say, yes, I violently murdered someone because they put their hand on my leg and I realized they were gay and hitting on me and I went crazy, that was a legitimate defense that worked.
Yeah, and now we know that actually that's just admission that you probably harbor a lot of feelings that you're conflicted and worried about. So that's actually what was going on there. I mean, like there has been progress culturally in terms of just people's understanding, but I think it's because more and more people have the ability, Like there's so many more people that are able to have a voice these days.
And represent Yeah. Yeah, so obviously we're not saying everything is great right now and that doesn't need so much more work. But from where we're coming from in the nineties, in this era, like it was just fucking disgusting.
Also, here are point because women are constantly explaining why but we're not covering this and we're not but we do mean this in it. It's just like you know what we mean.
Yeah, well not the people who don't want to the people that we talk to to go to the library and look up this. Most people don't want to know.
No, no, they're not here for this though those people are always they're just online.
This is your show. There's so many true crime shows. It's just int yours.
Go go find Have you been in the comments recently? Is this what's happening for me?
No, it has stuck with me. Yes. So that's what's going on. In the background. With the news of Matthew Shepherd's horrific injuries comes out. Matthew was transferred to a more resourced hospital in Fort Collins, Colorado. His parents have to fly back from Saudi Arabia. I mean, imagine them on that flight home, how fucking terrified they were. The
sheriff O'Malley. He says that Matthew was quote struck in the head and face between nineteen and twenty one times with the butt of a very large Smith and Wesson revolver. The only time I've ever seen those dramatic of injuries were in high speed traffic crashes, you know, where there was just extremely violent compression fractures to the skull end quote. And in fact, his parents only recognized him when they come into the hospital room at first because they saw
his braces, like he just was unrecognizable. Ultimately, Matthew Shepherd had been tied to a split rail fence, beaten with the butt of a gun, and left to die in the cold of the night until he was found almost eighteen hours later, and only because that kid fell off of his bike while his parents are at Matthew's bedside. The story gets bigger and bigger. It's on the cover
of Time. President Bill Clinton calls them Elton, John Madonna, Barbara streisand they are all getting involved, and the hospital is so overwhelmed by calls to check on his condition that it begins posting updates on its nascent website in nineteen ninety eight, which wasn't really a thing back then. So the Shepherds and the nation are devastated when Matthew succumbs to his injuries on October twelfth, nineteen ninety eight,
and just hoeveryone knows how hateful it all was. At his funeral service in the family's hometown of Casper, Wyoming a week later, is picketed by anti gay preacher Reverend Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church, along with his followers, including children. They held placards with homophobic slurs and shouted to the mourners that the dead student was burning in hell.
And in fact, this is so horrific. Dennis Shepherd, Matthew's father was made to wear a bulletproof vest to his son's funeral, and the church had been checked by bomb sniffing dogs, and there were swat teams at the front and back of the building and police snipers on rooftops.
For the funeral A victim of this horrible attack, The story immediately sparks national outrage.
Writer Andrew Sullivan says, quote, I think a lot of gay people when they first heard of that horrifying event, felt sort of punched in the stomach. I mean it kind of encapsulated all our fears of being victimized. End quote. So Aaron and Russell are both charged with first degree murder, kidnapping, and robbery, and their girlfriends are charged as accessories since both tried to dis bows of the clothes Russell had
been wearing. Russell pleads guilty and Aaron goes to trial and is found guilty and each are given two life sentences. And the story there is a lot bigger. I definitely think people should go look it up. So in the wake of Matthew's death, his parents form the Matthew Shepherd Foundation, which has online and offline resources for creating safe schools and communities. They also lobby for years for federal hate crime legislation to be expanded to include crimes based on
sexuality and gender identity. This is a long story, and there's a documentary called The Matthew Shepherd Story and American Hate Crime, but essentially, the Matthew Shepherd and James Bird Junior Hate Crimes Prevention Act finally passes and is signed by President Barack Obama in October of two thousand and nine. Eleven years after Matthew's death. And just note James Beard is a black man who was murdered by white supremacists
in Texas in nineteen ninety eight. Matthew's parents hold on to his ashes for twenty years because they're so afraid that if they inter him in a public place, his grave will be vandalized. They don't want to see that happen, obviously. And then in twenty eighteen, the Right Reverend Mary An Buddy invites the Shepherd family to inter Matthew in the
National Cathedral. So on October twenty sixth, twenty eighteen, Matthew is laid to rest in the National Cathedral's tomb, alongside the likes of former President Woodrow Wilson and Helen Keller.
Holy shit, yeah, I didn't know that.
And not even Harvey Milk, you know, another prominent gay man who was murdered was buried there.
Well, that was so long before, whereas like.
Tyler, Yeah, twenty eighteen, it took to allow it. During the ceremony, the Episcopal Church's first openly gay bishop, the Right Reverend Jean Robinson, says, quote gently, rest in this place.
You are safe now, Matthew. Welcome home, so a collection of personal effects were donated by his family in twenty eighteen for display at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History in the US Capital, which I didn't know about his school work, Some of his theater scripts and items from his everyday life as a reminder that he was a normal American boy, were donated by his family, as well as condolence cards and correspondents that the Shepherd's
received following his death, which must be so powerful. Judy Shepherd, his mother, who frequently speaks out against Trump administration policies that have rolled back or undermined the protection she's fought for in the wake of her son's death, said about the Smithsonian donation quote, for twenty years, we have tried to share the meaning of our son's life, as well as his dreams for a kinder, more accepting, and loving world. It is deeply comforting to know the Smithsonian will preserve
his story and meaning for future generations. We cannot think of a better way to honor Matt's life and legacy. It ends with this quote. The life and death of Matthew Shepherd changed a way we talk about and deal with hate in America. Since his death, Matt's legacy has challenge and inspired millions of individuals to erase hate in all its forms. Although Matt's life was short, his story continues to have great impact on young and old alike. His legacy lives on in thousands of people who actively
fight to replace hate with understanding, compassion, and acceptance. And that is the story of the life, death, and legacy of Matthew Shepherd.
Wow, the worst possible story, I know, but with real life impact.
Yeah.
I mean when you first were talking about it and then you said something about his mother, I immediately was like, Judy Shepherd, his parents have been working for so long to make change and to make sure that this isn't something that is I don't know, there's something about it that, like, as you tell it in retrospect, it feels like there was a conscious decision culturally by a majority of people.
Of course, never everyone, and certainly there's always going to be people with serious issues and serious problems of their own that are going to stand in the way of this. But it was almost like people going, how can we be letting things like this happen and be okay with it?
It was shameful as a country that we allowed this to happen. It was nineteen ninety eight. We think we're so you know, past all of that, yeah, I mean, or like we're yeah, we're evolved, and we're so evolved, and then this horrific thing happens and everyone is like, this cannot be swept under the rug. We have to be held accountable, not just the murderers, but us as a society who allows us to happen and thinks this is kind of.
Normal, and then things get turned into like, oh, it's pc, it's woe right, you're being that. It's like, no, no, no, these are the moments where the reality punctures through of how people are really being treated that are not white men with money, yeah, and so any story of things happening black people, and suddenly it's like, uh, don't be political, don't be woke, don't be this and it's like no, no, no, these are things you need to know about the facts of people's real lives.
And then there's so many people who are like no, that actually, things like this happen to us all the.
Time constantly, and you ignore it and don't listen in these rationales and then it's like something puncturing through that way because it's like it's Wyoming, it's out in the middle of nowhere, and it's just like there's so many people at risk, Yeah, because they live in the wrong place, right, they're surrounded by the wrong people as opposed to that they're wrong.
Right. It does seem like lar at me. Wyoming has tried.
Really hard to but can you imagine your name has become synonymous with like gay murder.
Yeah. Yeah, it seems like they've tried to change their ways and show that they're not, you know, like that, and hopefully we get some emails from hometowns of people from there. Yeah, there are a lot of emails of people being like, I'm from here, and we just want you to know that it's not like that anymore. And we've changed and we accept it.
And people have tried to memorialize it and really learn from it. And I don't know, it's so tough. It's just so big, that's what it is. I think that discussion is just like you can't put a silver lining on a thing that continues.
To just be this fight.
This is just one marginalized group, This is just one of the many in this country that this happens too constantly.
Yeah, totally. I do think it is this funny thing of like us older people, like when I see a gay couple or have you know my friends who are gay, I'm just so happy for them because we think about how did it used to be, how it used to be, and how oh dom.
And I watch Tricksay and Katia videos and them laughing my ass off, and they're like doing live shows with gigantic audiences and stuff, and I'm like, this is the dream of me and my high school friends in the in the theater department, all the nerds and weirdos where it was like but but all these nerds and weirdos are the funniest and most talented in the best ones, and like we're the ones that should have a say,
And it's like, hopefully we're clawing toward a world. The worst things get the more people know and understand how much they have to fight and fight for each other in whatever way you are marginalized or you are separate or different. It's just like, then that's how you have to bring the fight, yeah for everybody else?
Well, should we end it by doing a donation to the Matthew Shepherd Foundation.
Yes we should.
Okay, it's Matthew Shepherd dot org and we're gonna donate ten thousand.
Dollars and you go donate whatever you can. If you don't have money, you can volunteer, you can get involved. Well, great job, and you're right, it's an important story to tell and a good way to kick off Pride months.
Right, totally. I wore my Pride dress on purpose.
Hey, I didn't notice those little rainbows.
I can't believe it still fit me.
I know that is the most eighties dress of all time.
I know, isn't it so good? Look at my tiny little heart necklace.
Oh you have so many things.
I have so many things. Well, thank you guys for listening. Email us your memories about this time, if you need to get it off your chest, or how it affected you. I mean, I'm sure we have listeners that it affected them personally as well. Yes, so email us at gmail for sure, at gmail at my favorite murder a jail.
Just just call Gmail and tell them you need to send au semessage. That's right, Yes, write in anything you think you'd like us to know. Yeah, and stay sexy.
And don't get murdered. Go Bye, Elvis, Do you want a cookie?
This has been an exactly right production.
Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.
Our editor is Aristotle Ascevedo.
This episode was mixed by Leona Squalocci.
Our researchers are Mayor McGlashan and Ali Elkin.
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