Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of My Angular Story. This week we're talking to Michael Lodkey. Michael, do you want to say hi? Hello? This episode is sponsored by Century dot Io. Recently I came across a great tool for tracking and monitoring problems in my apps. Then I asked them if they wanted to sponsor the show and allow me to share my experience with you. Century provides a terrific interface for keeping track of what's going on
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stuff. I can give you a brief introduction about you. Who I am. My name is Michel, and I'm a human live in Vienna, and I'm interested in web technologies, especially Angular. So Angular is the stuff I earn my money with. I'm a consultant and trainer angler and my hobby is r x J S nice. So it's it's Michael. Yeah, Michael is the German pronunciation of the same name in English, Michael. Okay, yeah, I just I want to try and say my name is Sherman and it's
announced Michael Michael. It's the German Michael. You know. Yeah, there we go. So so yeah, So you live in Vienna and you do Angular. How long have you been doing Angular? Oh quite a while since it came out Angular the early one versions and chase as something one two whatever. I believe one two one or something or one one whatever something something with
one dot. Yeah, all the good old days. Right, Yeah, it's it's interesting because I did a lot of bigger applications in Anglo ja is and stuff that I realized is not is not working there, like a sharing state with this what was it? Back then? This scope and rootscope stuff was not really really performant, and I implemented patterns and those patterns are today very very present in the new version of Angler, so the angle and Anglo
JS. So it is really really interesting to see how the problems of those early versions of Angela evolved into a very nice way of dealing with it. Today. It is a not out of the box, but we have a lot of tools that do it for us. For example, the problem back then is today solved with some global state management tools like NGRX for example. And back then it was my custom clumsy implementation and it became a nice standard way of sorting stuff. So it's it's interesting to compare a very old version
of a framework very new versions. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm curious how did you get into Angular? Well, I was a back end developer back then, did many years of back in development with zand framework and also of course what else I made website when I was young, and I used the content management troopole back then, and Trouppart was really interesting for me because they started to develop a plug in that that provided you arrest API for this content management
system. This what what you know nowadays, the headless content management system. I was so fascinated of the possibility that I started to use some front and staff to to build a website or a mobile app. And then I used Ionic and INGL so first Angle and then Ionic in in the in the in the JAS versions. Oh wow, you were doing mobile apps before you were really doing what? So were you doing mobile apps first or web apps first?
Then? Well, I experimented with Anglo chas and the first solid application that I wrote was A was a Ionic application, our application, mobile app, hybrid app, however you call it. And this was my first step
into this Anglo world. So I implemented the API client for this drupe CMS to use in the in the Anglo ecosystem, right and was that was my fourth first A But yeah, it was the rest API client, one of my first projects that I open sourced or my first open source portrait, I don't know how you call it. Yeah, I'm curious to like how much adoption something like that gets, because I mean I've been in the Angular community for a while and Drupel really isn't the platform of choice that I hear from
most people. Well, I started to try out this hypo three Back then it was way more clumsy than it is today. And yeah, they this pushed me into this Trooper CMS system because it was more handy. But in the end, I was I was getting bored from the back end stuff, and I moved to the front end and then I did cool stuff. My first really big application was an Uber clone with Ionic. It's a pretty pretty cool and big application with web sockets and GPS tracking and whatever, and I
was very, very excited. And after this, I never touched the back end again until now, where I again start to experiment with nest Jas and other cool technologies. Gotcha, So so yeah, so I'm curious, why why Angular? Why not React? Well? English j was was out before React, and at least as far as I know him, and please correct me, I always can be wrong, but let's say I experienced it. Okay, I experienced that Anglo jas was the first cool new thing that I
realized. And back then because I wrote also some shake very based ap sp as, it was like a game changer before. If you think about developing something with Jake Very and then you try out Anglo jas, it's like whoa. And I was so fauscinated. I attended everything you meet up of this Anglar technology back then, uh hm, And yeah, since then, I'm a super fan of and and then React appeared and then View appeared, And I'm not familiar with React a lot, but I know the know the concept,
and I used it. I just never did a a lot with it, so I understand how the other things work. But I would say my focus is on Angula and the surrounding technologies, and well, let's never switched. Really, Yeah that makes sense. I mean I remember, yeah, Anguler came on the scene, and then yeah, a while later, React came on the scene, and they started doing things with like shadow dom and components and things like a lot of the things that we kind of take for
granted within Angular today exactly. And you know, we get all those goodies and we get a lot of nice stuff out of Angular as well, and so yeah, I definitely get that. I didn't realize that it was so long ago that React wasn't really even on the scene yet. And I remember that I remember arguing with people about Embermber. So the Anglo CLI AM pretty sure is based on the EMBASSYLI I think it started that way. I don't
know if it still is evolved into this Angular system. Yeah, I don't know if the Angular cli is still based on the Embassy ALI, but I know it started that way. It was. I believe it was at the very beginning. Begame wash yeah yeah, and was also the reason why I attended a lot of Angular meetups back the YEP. Absolutely in Vienna. In Vienna, yes, yes, because I yeah, when I think of big hubs of Angular developers, I don't think of Vienna. So I mean,
what's the community like there and how was it back then? This is really interesting you have to know today around the Angular meetups since five or six years at the beginning, I was just an attendee one of the first meetups that ever happened. I was already there. And the interesting part about this stuff, at least in vi Enna was these meetups were always packed. I can't
remember, I guess it was two fifteen. We had always like eighty eight ninety people there, and back then it was not that well funded as it is today. But when we had like a really cool speaker. I can remember when month Ledge Dyer showed up at our meetup. We had one hundred and twenty five people on a meeting. It was like incredible time change that
we had to move to another location. The old organizer asked me to take it over, and now we are in another location, but still always a lot of people and also the video crew that is recording our bogs told we always have a very active community, a lot of interesting speakers. We have like every single meetup one I don't know, Glee or decent Dead company, really famous these people, and it is a very very good feeling that we
have such an active and interesting dynamic in this group. I'm not sure if it is everywhere in the world, I assume know, but it is here in Vienna, that's the case. Yeah. I went to some Angular meetups here and we had I mean sometimes we'd have one hundred or so and sometimes it was like so there is here, uh utah nice. Nice. Yeah, so there's there's a healthy community here. But yeah, it's it's interesting, you know that there are that many people there that want to stay current
on Angular. And it's also interesting how many gdes and people that you're saying are available to come and speak to you, I mean we have I So after I took the meetup over, I also did several changes and I set up in association. It's called Anglo Austria Association that basically takes fundings or sponsorships from companies and then funds meetups and other things. For example, I run
these integrals for camps a year. At the workshops are free. Everything is free, and also the meetups and I have their free drinks with food, and if I have a speaker that is not gde or to pay their travelings, I'm not able to refund their travelings because I have the feeling they already do so much to prepare for a talk, like a train it. It's not like you come there and you speak. You have to train it, practice it. You have to build the story to the slides. It's a
lot of work. And then they have to pay the traveling to speak on my meetup. And I'm really happy that since several years now, nobody that speaks on my meetup has to pay travel costs for something. Also, other events in Austria that are related to ANGLA are funded over this association. That's that's awesome. And how do you get the association funded? Do you have
companies there that funded? Yeah, So I go to companies and I explain what I do and show them what events we run, and show them that we are like approved as a nonprofit organization, and then they say, yeah, that is cool, and then they give us a couple of euros and we use this money to run those events and we advertise them with logos on our banners or in the recordings. We have to logos, so we give
them some advertisement and always link them with the community. So a lot of jobs that are needed or that that are taken in en are going over these meetups because you always have companies that sponsor, and then people that are interested in there's such a job and it's a really cool let's say linking, really cool netflik platform. Two. That's awesome. That's good that you agree,
Yeah, I love it. I'm trying to think of what I can do here because there are a lot of tech companies here that I think I could get to, you know, sponsor things like that. And I mean there's the there is a tech association that runs like Utah Open Source Conference, some
database conferences and stuff, and they get local companies to sponsor them. But I think it'd be really interesting to pull something together where yeah, we were doing a monthly meet up and it was like, well we got the creator of this framework or the you know or Gear, Microsoft MVP or yeah, and just be like all right, you know, we've got this person coming
in, you know, the whole thing's been done. Or maybe do a workshop right where it's you know, we've got this person and we're gonna we're going to pay them for their time, but the association is making it free, right exactly. So this is also the reason we don't need members, because we don't want to have members. We want to provide service for everybody that want to attend. Like, yeah, that's a better funded meeta. Yeah, that's awesome. Also one of my hobbies next to our xjs.
Yeah, so how did you wind up getting into RxJS? Was it an extension of working with Angular and just realizing that No, no, it was It was a really cool story. I was I back in development and program PHP and then I always such like what is cool and new and blind? Uh. Before his Angular meetups started in Vienna, I often met with with a guy. His name is called Ardi Shariff. I guess in Twitter his name is Sharif's speed. He's tweeting a lot of stuff on programming culture and
stuff. And he was like really really informed about the latest new technology and and also concept and and and and and uh uh let's say implementation wise why it is good or bad? And he told me back then. I was like, wow, there is decent that new stuff. And he said, you know what really cool is r x j S. And I was like, what the r x j s? And so so I sat down.
I had this dummy, my first dummy angular project. It was just the button and some text like this Hello World example of Anglo jas and and I was like, okay, I want to use this somehow in this Anglo jas. So I started to make a button clickstream. And it took me hold on three days to make a button stream. I don't know the rxchance version. I assume it was for something or so uh. And I had no clue. The documentation was like over complex and overfilled with these words this like
observable, observer, and subject. And I had no clue. So I fight at this button and when I had the button clickstream ready. I was so excited and so released it. I started to like experiment more. The next thing was I created an error and I tried one and a half days to restart the observable. Now I know this concept of reusing that observable is not here, but yeah, like then, it took me some time.
And my first example and my first real talk on a meetup was was our angle a jas and I guess a mess bus with rxchs and the second was a Morse code decoder and this was one of my first no this was my first my second meetup talk and also years later with Angola and rxchs, also my first conference talk in the Vikings. Awesome. Yeah, I love RXGS. It's it is incredible, so powerful. I realized every four months that I'm stupid and I know nothing, and I never understood what I do.
So it's it's always exciting for me. I always learned new stuff, read a lot of those issues or issues or the source code just to get a better understanding why the code is as it is and what you can nice. So, do you have an RXGS meetup out there? Then I have the Angular meetup and Nest meetup which is not so nice. JS meetup which is not so active. Maybe I should work on it, and I start that to think about rx j s at the moment we included in the angle on
meetup. Right, we will see. So let's talk a little bit about what you're doing as far as if somebody else wants to start setting something like this up. So let's say that somebody is based in another city. You know, maybe they do or don't have a strong tech community there. I mean, how do you get a meetup like this together? And you know, if how do you determine if it's possible to get something like your angular
association together? I believe this should nothing that you should care about at the beginning. So if you want to do something, you don't think about funding and free beer and free location, whatever you think about. I'm super interested in this isn't the topic and I want to meet all the other people that
are also interested. Didn't then to just create a meetup and you say, let's meet in whatever in the bar xPy said, because everybody can go in a bar and you can just meet there, or you have location for free for another component, you just set the meet up up and the way until people show up and yeah, and you see how it goes if people are coming more? Do you provide interesting content? Really important? You as a
meetup organizer? Are you friendly? What culture do you do you let's say, teach or I mean you have to provide an example or set an example, like how to behave on a meetup or how to you know what I mean. If you are like a welcoming, friendly organizer and you are, you say hi, so everybodys enters and you introduce yourself and you'll tell him what's possible, and grab a free free drink here and sit there and do this. And if you start to run a meetup with this mindset, it
will automatically be good because you cannot resist. If you get welcomed in a very nice way, you can not resist to be also very nice and well coming to all the other people there. And it is like a positive let's say, I don't know if it is a trick, but it is a result. It is a result of of how you act at the beginning and
how you say hi and introduce yourself to others. Because if you run the meetup, you're like, let's say something like the boss, right and you can assume that there is a saying in Austria that the fish starts to smell at the head. You know this, right, yep? Yeah, And I think we have the saying here, so yeah, so, and not flip it around if you if you're the head and you have a very good smell, all the rest will also have a very good smell. Right. So if you start to be a first of all, you have to be
authentic. But if you are an authentic person that is also friendly and welcoming and you start this stuff, everybody else is more or less forced to be welcoming and friendly to everybody else too. Are you stuck at home climbing the walls when you should be hanging out with the community at the latest conference to get canceled? Are you wondering where to hear your JavaScript heroes like Amy Knight and Douglas Crockford and Chris Heilman. After the cancelations, I decided to put
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Yeah, the Angular team has done some of this with their you can sit with us. You know, they wear shirts that say that and things like that. In the Ruby community, they have a mantra that's Miniswan and that is Matt's is nice and so we are nice, Matt's being the creator of the language. Right. So yeah, a lot of these ideas you know that you're talking about at a local level. I mean they work across
the communities, right exactly. Angular takes the Angular team takes a very active role in making sure that the community is welcoming and friendly and helpful to care about Angular to be honest, no matter which technology around I should be or even if it is a meetup for I don't know, dancing. Also, you also have to be welcoming and friendly. So I say, I would not stick it to the topic of a meetup or anything. It should be like a general thing that you want to do in your life. Yeah,
if you're creating a community, it's something you should be doing. It should be Also, you should also be happy outside of the community and friendly to other things. So I would not I would not connect being friendly to others with community because I don't care if I am at the community and in the meetup and they'll compete friendly. I also do this when I enter a shop and I say hi to the shop owner. You know what I mean? Right, So this is nothing you should You should connect with a meetup or
a community. Agree. Yeah, we talked a lot about community and meetups. What else are you interested in? I'm really curious. You know, what kinds of things have you done with each other with r xjas for that matter, Like, like, what kinds of interesting projects have you done? Okay, I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can, I can. I can name this this project that I named at the beginning. I'm not sure if it is in the recording, but this
Ionic uber clone uber Clone with Ionic. This was one of my first really really big projects in the front end, with a lot of web socket and the rest, Corse and this and that, and my boss back then forced me to use typescript. And you have to know, at this time, people were like what is it? You know, it's well like this coffee script SNY And then there was typescript sing and people were like, you really want to bet on typescript? I mean, so I was the same.
I was like, yep, can we just trad Vanilla? I mean, I know how to do it, and this is a big project and I don't want to like start a new technology with a new project. It was like, no, we do this, and you don't care how long it will take to learn it. I have to use a typescript and I used it and after one and a half days I never went back. It is like the best thing in my life that happened back then, this typescript stuff.
So this was a big project, and we also had a contact with a lot of different technologies typescript, the web socket, this and that. And it was also one of the first projects where I used rx j s because the web socket connection was back then handled over RxJS and all this reconnecting and this buffering. You have to know, you have to catch a lot of stuff offline for offlint situations and when you go online again, and we
have displayed data swings. So this was RXCHS logic it was really really cool. Also very live push based application. I loved it. But the second cool thing I won an price. Back then I created We've drooped back end where you can manage assets like multimeda assets, images, videos, audio and other data and you could link them in droupar with drag and drop to I beacons or to positions. And back then I used I beacons, QR codes
are FID tags and the GPS position to put information on a map. And then I would say, okay, this is like a museum, and I put the I beacons or the QR codes. I mean, the goal was to use I beacons because you just passed them and something happen in your phone. You have this guide where you can set up on the computer multimedia stuff over positions and when you pass the station with the phone, dialogue goes up
and you see the video or you can read about it or whatever. So for museums, for outdoor museums and this stuff, and this was also really cool. This was an open source project that got partially funded because there was some competition I don't know. And it was also based on Ionic and R because all the signals that went in from those I beacons were processed over streams. I decided I decided back then to use our extas. Yeah, and
and and all the time, I really struggled to understand rxchas. I mean still I still struggle. You know, it's not over. But this was one of the first things where I looked how to learn are x chas in a better way because it was I was overwhelmed from the number of operators, I was overwhelmed from the number of technical terms. I was just able to use it because I had a lot of experiments done right. The doctor is
still not really helpful for me. Mhm. And I guess when I switched to Angular, I started to think more in these marble diagrams and I had a lot of drawings on a paper back then to get a good overview of what my code is doing. Because this I td D. You know what TDD is. What do you think test driven development? Yeah? Normally yes, But if you code React, you have a React sorry r x cha s. You have the tap driven development, right, you put a tap
operator and the console lock. If you try to understand what is happening with all these console locks in your your I call it tap driven development as more joke. I was not able to understand it. With this tap driven development, I always had to draw those marble diagrams on the paper to really have
a clear understanding of all the different use case systems that can happen. And this was, I guess, the beginning where I was starting to get interested in these in these diagrams, and also later on this was, I guess, the foundational work that I used to create this marble design system that I still work on. So did you ever saw such a graphic of this design system? Hu? I didn't, Okay, I guess you should find something online. If you click on my Twitter media tech, you see some colorful
circles and some arrows and some lines. And I basically extended the actual marble diagram way of throwing to a real design system that solved all the problems. Because a lot of operators are not you cannot visualize them with the current set of marbles. You cannot visualize execution context, you cannot visualize multicasting and unicasting. You cannot visualize in a nice way what the higher AUTHO observable is doing
and where the unsubscribed of a switch map is happening. You know, what I mean that I put together a design system that includes a lot of rules and a lot of flag spacing and blah blah blast stuff. And you can use this design system to draw every single operator or the multicasting operator, or the operators that switch the scheduling context from synchronous to asynchronous scheduling. You basically can cover every single operation that are ex chas operators at the moment do including
subjects. Awesome. Yeah, I'm looking at the diagram. It looks really it's a little different from what I've seen in the past, and it looks interesting. I definitely want a lot of information about the internal logic of an operator, and this is like, so the big problem what I realized if those diagrams was you cannot draw, or at least in the old versions,
it didn't show the internal logic of the operator. But this is the only interesting thing that you want to know if you use an operator, right, if you use a switch map, you're not interested in the in and output. You're interested what is switching insight to what? And this is the essential difference that my diagram shows compared to the old diagrams. That's cool, yeah, and it is working and you can like reproduce it. It is like
always the same pattern, always the same spacing. You could create CSS elements out of it, provide some patting and marching and it would work. You know what I mean. It's likely based on a system. It's not like drawing lines. It's like the line is here because of X Y. I said, yep. Cool. Well, I'm I'm kind of running out of time. I have some other podcast interviews to get to today and I actually have to drive to them because they're local folks. So last thing you want
to know, well, what are you working on today? Like these days? These days? This is a very good question. So after I did a little development, a switch to this training consulting stuff, and now I just tried to solve some problems for other big companies. And recently I worked and I still work on very interesting stuff. I work on fully sown less and fully subscription less Angular applications. I introduced the concept of local state based
on a research that I did. So this is like how I would implement local state management in a very primitive form in Angular. And you can rep this implementation stuff that I did with other more intelligent things until you reach some logic that looks like an NNGRX for example, but it's not that important on a component level. But I do desire right fully reactive applications. And if
you go fully sown less, you only need one single piece. You need instead of the acing pipe, you need something that we call the push pipe. It was Roborma's ideas several years ago now I guess it was one year ago when he came up with it, or even longer. And this was the idea of triggering the change detection in the push pipe itself, so not marking for a check, but detecting the change itself there. And it had
several performance problems. For example, if you have multiple pipes on the same to us, it would take a bigger multiple change detections in the same event group, it would be not really performant. If we go away from zone. And I worked on this based on an RFC on the n g RX repository. I will provide a pr that includes the push pipe and the less directive another thing that is very similar from the concept that will help us to
have a smooth integration of streams in the template and also working zundless. So basically it detects the version of angle is a view engine or IVY, and it detects if you run soone less or not. And based on this it does it seem and you don't need to care about those decisions. So you have it in the pipe or in the directive. I guess we will publish at least parts of this PR in the near future and the next version of NIX cool. Very cool. All right, Well, I'm gonna push this
in the picks and pushes in the pis. So we're gonna we're going to talk about stuff that's not related to this that we like, so, you know, just shout outs about TV shows, books, movies, other stuff that you're you know, enjoying these days. I can go ahead and uh and do a pick or two here and then, and then you'll kind of get the idea. My first pick, it's hard to keep track of because these aren't on like a regular schedule. They get scheduled when they get scheduled,
and so I worry a little bit about repeating them. But if I repeat them, sorry. So the first pick I have is a book that I've been listening to on Audible. It's called Generation Z Unfiltered and it talks about so I'm Generation X, I think, depending on how you reckon it, I was born in seventy nine, and you know, and then you
have Generation Y and then Generation Z and uh. This book is about explaining the world that Generation Z is growing up in and how they see the world and how, you know, how tech ichnology has impacted them and things like that. And what's really interesting to me is that my kids, I think, are at least my older kids are Generation Z according to however they reckon
that. And so just understanding, Okay, these are the things that are different from when I grew up, right because I've fought a few things that I didn't need to fight because you know, I try to raise my kids like I was raised. And there are a couple there are a lot of things that yeah, you know these you know, these are the values we live by. So you know, so do this or do that. But the reverse of that is is, okay, you know, go outside and
play. Well, we went outside and played because technology entertainment was the TV,
right, that was it when I was a kid. And now they've got the Internet, they've got cell phones, they've got all these different things, and yeah, I still encourage my kids to go outside and play, but now I have a little bit more context around how they look at this and realize that, you know, I need to be a little bit more permissive in some ways with technology and a little less permissive with technology in some
ways. Right, So you know, essentially what I'm doing now is I'm trying to give them the tools to cope with a connected world and the types of technology offerings that are going to be around in ten years when they're adults. And so anyway, it's been a really interesting book to just kind of dive in and look at that stuff. So I'm going to pick that. The other pick I have is an app on my Mac that I use called Shift. And what Shift does is it it puts a whole bunch of your
apps in the same spot. So I have a Gmail account, well Google Apps account for work, right, and then I have another Google Apps account for some of the volunteering that I do for the local political party. And then you know, I've got you can add in. So I've got Stripe or not Stripe, sorry, Slack, Facebook Messenger, Facebook Messenger, Active
campaign, base Camp. You know, so I've got all of these and they're they're all tabs in this same app, and so I don't have to go and sign into them, and then if the tab gets closed, I have to go back. I don't have to do any of that stuff. Shift kind of manages all that for me. So I'm gonna pick Shift. Do you have some things that you want to shout out about, uh, Mihaiel pick I should pick something, I don't know, a book or whatever that I think it's cool. Yeah, yeah, what's the thing that just
makes your life better these days? Right when you want to put your feet up is a hot question. You never know if your left gets better or not fair enough? Book? Pick a book? Yeah, I have a core book. What is a core book? A core book that I wrote is like that wrote read was a story like Story like the Wind is a book written from an author called Lawrence from the Post. Lawrence from the Post was back then a friend of Cigi Young, this famous psychologist Cichi Young.
Maybe you know him, I don't know, I don't care. So in the story a Story like the Winter, there was an white I call it white because I know from which a country. Those white people were in the jungle in and they lived together with you know the English word, but these people that live in the bush we call it a bushman or whatever, or in the jungle natives there, and then there were some fighting and whatever.
So the story was about how the cultural interaction between this let's say, strange white small boy and his family and the natives were and also fights in between his native people and others. And it was incredibly interesting and fascinating for me how this young boy made his decisions based on the really let's say, very stressful situations he was in. All the time, he always acted very wise
and very very thoughtful. So I was very impressed of this book the way how it was written and the story of this young boy that was living with the natives there as a complete stranger. And I guess it is it will touch a lot of people because it is a very very good book. And other stuff that I like and that I believe is improving my life is I'd like to have fun. So if you have fun, no matter where and
what, I guess it's always better. Also when I work, when I train, when I learn, I try to do it in a playful way because the mood in which I am is heavily influencing if I can digest the information or not. And if I want to learn something, it's very important, or if I want to teach and share knowledge, it's important that I'm in an open mood, that that is able to receive other people and their
feelings and questions and give the right answer. And if you are in a fun in a funny state, it's a natural behavior that most of the people go into the very it's easy for them to receive feelings and sorts of other people. I chant it and give it away. And I always try to have this like a funny mood because if you are in a very strict mood, it is very exhausting to stay focused and you cannot process all the different impressions from all the people. For example, if I teach it easily,
so it helps me to save energy. If I if I'm in an open and uh, let's say funny or a happy mood, cool anything else? Know, that's it done, bam, Okay, we nearly have like fot yor five minutes. Yeah, are you satisfied with the information you collected? Yes? Absolutely, And I think it's always funny to me. You know, we have these conversations and then somebody will email me and say this really inspired me. So I'm really hoping that people are going to be like,
oh well I can go start a meetup or I can go learn. Yeah, also to mentoring, if somebody is interesting to run a meetup, start a meetup, want to do a talk. I do this a lot in Vienna. I am used to do it sometimes remote and if it is a fair fair of time. I'm into helping people to do this, and especially
if they are across or around Vienna in Austria. We also fund the first meetup with the association, so we help with the association, will help you to start your meetup, to get running, to get like the first round of three drinks paid for the people, and then have a good could a good first meetup? Awesome? How do you forget hold of the people? Want to get trained or consultant? They can contact me. I guess my email address is on Twitter and my Twitter handle is always open, so you
can contact me and also consume it. All right, sounds good? Yeah? I also think so all right, well I'm going to uh, I'm gonna go ahead and wrap us up, but thank you for coming in. This was a lot of fun. Yeah yeah, I agree with. For this segment is provided by cash live, the world's fastest cd N. Deliver your content fast with cash Live. Visit c A c H E f l y dot com to learn more