¶ Welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo
Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo . We're your hosts , Tim and LJ .
Today and every week we will be discussing musicals , but specifically what they taught us .
Yep .
What .
Who .
What .
Where .
What ? When I thought I did something wrong there . The way you looked at me ?
Not at all not at all , but I did take a note out of your book and I was extremely enthusiastic yeah , you're really enthusiastic on the intros and stuff .
I think it's hard . You're the first one to like , you know . So you're like setting the tone and then I come in and just well , lauren , there's one sure thing we're not swapping it now ? No , oh gosh , we're getting so it's not happening . No , no , no , no it is not happening . No , definitely not , Definitely , definitely not .
All good .
All great . Fantastic Tell me what you have for me .
Okay , shock of the century , in my opinion . Todrick Hall .
Okay .
Yeah , has been announced just well at time of recording this week , but I'll be last week or two weeks ago when you get this episode , as being the choreographer and director for the West End premiere of Bolesk yeah , which is going to open in London Savoy Theatre from July the 10th to September the 6th .
Now , the reason I'm confused is obviously Burlesque has had its world premiere this year in Manchester and . Glasgow and it had a director choreographer yeah , so Hall Todrick Hall is succeeding Nick Winston . So I , the nosiness in me , wants to know what's going on .
It's obviously just getting a wee bit of a re-vamp .
Yeah , and Todrick , because Todrick Hall was in that world premiere . He played Sean .
Okay .
And Todrick's also written some new music for the West End .
So this is what my theory is .
I love your theories because they're normally very good .
This is a very short stint that is going to be happening because Paddington is moving into Savoy .
It's so exciting , isn't it ?
But I think Burlesque wants a longer home . So right now , the way it is , nobody wants to take it for longer . So they're revamping it . So when people come to see it for the short stint that it is in Savoy , we're going to see it six months time somewhere else for longer .
But which version , the world premiere version or the London ? But that's what I mean . What happened Like why are they doing a completely new ?
Because it didn't get the long stint that they wanted . I think they wanted it to come into town and be there , not just be a six week thing or whatever .
I think yeah , but why change up when the show is clearly there and set ?
because maybe there's just something missing . That's what .
I mean , I want to know what's going on . There's drama that we're not being told , I think . Do you know what I mean ? Like , well , I think because I thought the world premiere stuff looked really good .
But then you didn't see the whole thing .
That's very true . That is it On Paddington Stuffed Bert from Mary Poppins , I'm going to play that bear .
Oh , the actual bear .
I'm going to play that bear . Oh , okay , I'm going to play Paddington Interesting . It's very exciting .
Very . Had you heard rumours or whisperings about it . Yeah .
Okay , missed that .
Oh , did you not know that it was in the ?
I went . Paddington Bear is now a musical .
Yeah , no , I knew that Fletcher had been working on it for a while . Did not know .
Tom Fletcher of Busted . Oh , he's going to kill me , mick Busted . Tom Fletcher of McFly fame .
Yes .
Is and Kerry Hook .
Fletcher's brother . Yeah , yes , because maybe it's just from her socials and stuff . No , no , no , I definitely knew that he was in the middle of that .
Well . Very exciting , amazing , at the time of recording the tour of Lion , witch and Wardrobe is in our local theatre , the Opera House . Did you know know ? Honest to goodness , the world is a mad place . But do you know that a man has recently been charged what for stealing the white witch's coat that he stole when the show was in Edinburgh ?
What isn't that ridiculous ?
so the thirty , thirty four , when the show was in Edinburgh . What ?
Isn't that ridiculous . So the 34-year-old man has been charged following the incident that took place on the 27th of March . He stole the faux fur coat that the White Witch wears , and that coat still remains missing , as far as I'm aware . Oh , my goodness what goes through people's , do you ?
imagine that wardrobe mistress is .
I know , woof , I know You'd be past yourself , wouldn't you ?
That's crazy , isn't that bizarre ?
What a bizarre piece of theatre news .
I've heard it's going down . It's great oh , I'm so gutted , I'm gutted gutted , there was no tickets , and it's coming to Dublin , though in a couple more . Has it just been to Dublin ?
no , I can't but will it not ? Will it not be sold out there too ? I know , because when I went on it was it's just a complete sellout .
I know , I know I am gutted , just so lovely as well because obviously CS Lewis and Belfast and have lovely CS Lewis Square just down from , you know near . Yeah , or perhaps as near can be . But yeah , and also sorry . Just to move on more theatre news . Are you going to mention the UK and Ireland tour of Mrs Doubtfire ?
No , the UK and Ireland tour of Mrs Doubtfire ?
No , because I didn't know that there was a UK and Ireland tour . Yeah , so it was announced yesterday at 10am .
I love it .
And this is what excites me , because it can't say UK and Ireland if it's not coming to this island , oh , if it's not coming to this island . Oh , if it's not coming to belfast , it was so that's what I mean , like it'll either be belfast , or dublin .
Yeah , yeah , um so but the fact it doesn't just say you know , sometimes it says uk tour and then we never know if belfast is going to get it .
Yes , but the fact that it says uk and ireland tour means it's definitely going , definitely has to come to dublin yeah , yeah , so um amazing yes that is exciting . Another people I'm very excited by that because that I would love to have seen that .
Yes , um but I knew that . I knew whenever it announced they spun this wheel or this world , and I was like I bet it's going on tour , yeah , and then , and it's the type .
From the sounds of it , it's the type of musical that will do amazingly well on tour . Uh , something else that's very exciting the National Theatre , because they now have a new artistic director and they have released their season for the next year . Isn't it Up to 2026, ?
Is that Into 2026 , yeah , and there's loads going on , including lots of fantastic people , including what's his name from normal people . Why is his name just gone out of my head ?
Paul .
Meskell . Paul Meskell is going to be in the National Theatre doing two shows , apparently , but what I'm really excited about is a new musical version of Pride . Yes and Pride . The 2014 film is one of my favourite films about the minors joining forces with the LGBT .
Yep .
I think that could be like a real hit . Like I could see that having legs after it's stint in the National Theatre , so I think that's very exciting . Also want to know how you feel about this . Andrew Lloyd Webber revealed that a revival of our favourite musical Cats is going to be coming to London in 2026 .
Yeah .
He has also said that award-winning choreographer and artistic director of Regent's Park Open Air Theatre , drew McHoney one of my favourite choreographers is set to create a fresh production Now .
When I saw that he had said there was a revival coming , I thought it was going to be the Broadway revival and I got really excited because I actually would love to see what they've done with it . In Broadway they kind of put it into a . Vogue-y kind of underground club-y kind of version .
But it's not a direct transfer of the Broadway production , it is a completely fresh new version that Drew McHoney's going to create , which I think could probably still be amazing , because I think he is amazing . He's very , very talented creative .
Yeah , no , it'll be certainly interesting . There's loads of them in it as well . We've got the Frogs , the Sondheim musical , which Nathan Lane revised , and it's currently in production or like rehearsals at the moment , and then I'm hoping we'll be able to see it on PBS this week or next week .
The cast recording the pro shot of Next to Normal is going to be out , so I'm hoping that that means that in the UK we'll be able to see it . So you know why Waitress got their pro shot first and then it took a few months for it to come over .
That annoys me though . Because they were both well , not the waitress one , but next to normal , was recorded in a . London theatre so why does ? Pps America get it before anyway
¶ Theatre News and Announcements
, let's not create division talking about America . The Tony Awards were our Tony nominations were made last week , so up for just interesting . Want to know your opinions . Up for best revival of a musical is Floyd Collins , gypsy , starring Audrey .
Uh McDonald , uh , pirates of Penzance that's meant to be brilliant um , yeah , I've seen a few videos that looks really good , and then obviously Sunset Boulevard that walked away with the Olivier's last year . What do you think ?
Yeah , out of those . I think Sunset's still getting such a big buzz around it . I think it will be hard , but I think Pirates is in for a good chance .
I agree Yep Best Actor In a musical . Let me find .
I think Tom Francis is or is he best supporting actor he's up for .
I should really have got these in order Before I started talking about them . The actress ones are quite interesting . You've got Nicole Scherzinger .
You've got Nicole , you've got Audrey you've got . Megan Hilty and .
Oh , the oh . You can't say one without the other . From Death Becomes Her . That's also been nominated for .
Oh , I forgot , forgotten her name .
I know it's going to annoy me . That's annoying .
But I really hope Megan , as much as I know Nicole Scherzinger is doing amazing . Yes , I think obviously Death Becomes . Her is doing wonderful too . She's great .
Jennifer Simard , and then also , to be fair , we should mention Jasmine Amy Rogers for Boop , the musical I would . I'm so interested in what that's going to be like . Another , just one more we shout out For actor best performance by an actor in a leading role in a play .
Best performance by an actor in a leading role in a play Louis McCartney from Good Old Northern Ireland . That's right . As we mentioned , he has been nominated for his role in Stranger Things , the First Shadow that we mentioned .
Fantastic .
He's up against George Clooney . I know I'm mad being able to say yeah , I was nominated opposite George Clooney . Imagine if he walked away with the win .
Wow .
Delighted , wow . And then your play that you mentioned on last week's Yep .
John Proctor . Is John Proctor the villain ?
Is a villain . It's been nominated for Best Play . There you go , yeah , very exciting , interesting been nominated for Best Play .
There you go .
Yeah , it will be interesting .
I do love Tony season , not that we get to see it , but usually we get some highlights on YouTube monthly .
Not as many as you used to . No , they've cracked down on that an awful lot .
Well , thank you so much for your theatre news . There was a lot there .
Yeah , well , it was the Tony Tony .
Tony , what are we doing this week ?
Are we doing a musical that won a Tony ? I can't remember . Some revivals Got a few nominations no won . Yeah , did win . Some revivals of this musical got a few nomi nominations no one , yeah , it did win okay there we go some revivals of this musical won a Tony .
Tony , what are we doing ?
we're way back in 1888 , no 1873 oh , we've done well this week in our research . To be fair , I've got so many notes I can't actually find the information .
We are back in the 1800s . Anyway , this is Carousel .
That was the worst intro we've ever done for a musical , isn't it ? We're back with our friends Richard Rogers and Oscar Hammerstein for their second musical together after their first ground-breaking Oklahoma .
On the heels of the ground-breaking I'm just going to say it again , the ground-breaking Oklahoma carousel stirred audiences with a tragic love story told with beautiful music and sublime dance . There's my word again . It was Richard Rodgers' personal favourite of his many productions . He said Oscar never wrote more meaningful or more moving lyrics .
He mentioned that in his autobiography Music Stages , and to me my score is more satisfying than any I've ever written . But it's not just the song , it's the whole play , Beautifully written , tender , without being mawkish . It affects me deeply every time I see it performed . Yeah , what a lovely way to talk about your own work .
¶ Introducing Carousel: Rodgers & Hammerstein's Classic
I know , and it not sound like a pure book .
Yeah , that's very true 1945, .
This musical is adapted from Ferenc Molnar . Is that how you say it ?
I'm so glad you took that bit .
Yeah , his 1909 play which was Lilliam , named Lilliam . Sorry , but they changed Budapest for Maine . Yes , changed it slightly . So 1945 , it opened on Broadway . It only ran for 890 performances which nowadays isn't too bad for certain performances . It's only one of theirs Rodgers and Hammerstein's . Not to do a thousand performances , what 1950, .
It came to the West End . Then you had a West End revival in 1992 , a Broadway revival in 94 , another West End revival in 2008, . Back to London in 2017 and then Broadway 2018 .
I hope you kept up with all of that folks . It's been around .
It has been around . It has been around . There's been a couple of tours thrown in there as well . But we haven't . There hasn't been one for a while 2018 .
Yeah , and I think that's it , it's . It is a funny , funny show in that you can understand why it hasn't disappeared , but it's also not brought out on a regular you know , and even Rodgers and Hammerstein had been reluctant at the beginning to even pick it up . You know , I think Oklahoma being such a success .
I also love that in this episode my favourite Oklahoma's going to come up an awful lot , because there's an awful lot to give credit to which is interesting .
It was an immediate hit with both critics and audiences , but it just didn't have as much success commercially as Oklahoma . And that 100% is down to the fact that Oklahoma's amazing no down to the fact that Oklahoma's amazing no , it's the fact that it doesn't have a happy tied up in a bow ending .
No , and that's it , and I think even you know , say the playwright's name again .
I think it's Molnar Molnar .
So yeah , the Hungarian play Lilium .
Yeah .
By Molnar . It's , I mean , it's a classic , but it's a bit risky , yeah . And they were worried about being accused of adding songs where songs weren't needed . Yeah .
Then there was also the fact that Lilium was set in Budapest , as you've mentioned , a place neither Rodgers or Hammerstein had the slightest empathy with , and then also a play that ends with just about the least crowd-pleasing scene for a musical possible , where the British father in spirit returns to see his daughter and slaps her , which for her feels like a kiss .
Yeah , yes , we'll go into that .
Yeah . And add to all of this , even if they did decide to take it on , there was no guarantee that the Hungarian playwright would approve , because he had already turned down the likes of Gershwin and Puccini .
Yeah , yeah , so he just he didn't want it turned into a musical , he didn't want to part with the play . He loved it , obviously , the way it was . And they tried for , I think , about two years . They definitely spoke to him and I just wasn't having it .
But the one thing that did get him to was your , your wee musical so I say that again what was the reason that milnor decided to give the rights ?
get him to agree . But once he seen oklahoma he agreed he would get one percent of the gross and two thousand five hundred pounds for personal services . He was totally taken by what they were able to do to Oklahoma .
He was an Oklahoma fan , like the rest of us , lauren . Like the rest of us musical fans out there , he was a fan of Oklahoma and , much to everyone's trepidation , he gave them the rights and he even turned up to rehearsals so convinced that he would hate it .
The writers , oscars and Hammerstein , nervously introduced themselves , but he was ecstatic with what they had done to his play , especially their new ending . They had to do something about the original ending . They couldn't slap his daughter . The only criticism he had was when he icily delivered his complaint that the director smoked too much in rehearsals .
Well , there we go .
I mean , if that's the only complaint that you're going to get out of , but let's just never forget we wouldn't have had Carousel the musical if we hadn't had Oklahoma . Because , he was a fan of Oklahoma .
So Carousel is set in 1873 , maine . Not a bit of pest . There's two young female mill workers and they visit the carousel after work . I love the names in Carousel . I have to say I love Carousel .
So do I .
I adore Carousel .
Yeah .
But Jilly Jordan , I just love that name .
You're a queer one , jillyordan mr snow I love .
I just , I just love the names on this . Anyway , jilly jordan attracts the attention of billy bigelow again another great um name and um , she just becomes absolutely infatuated with him and he becomes infatuated with her . Time passes and they end up getting married . However , billy is still that carousel lad and he hasn't really made much of himself .
He's still unemployed and he lashes out in July and this , I think , was quite jarring for audiences , seeing this anti-hero who's meant to be the , the leading man , you know . Yeah , he hits his wife yeah , absolutely and he's then tempted by robbery .
Whenever he real realizes that julie is pregnant , um and he decides to take part in the robbery yeah , he realizes he can't provide for his family as as things stand . Yeah and the robbery , unfortunately , is a failure . And billy now .
This is where there's the difference between the film , which some people will be very familiar with , and the stage version , and billy ends up killing himself and dies in julie's arms . And billy then ends up in heaven uh , though he's not actually allowed in as he didn't do good enough on Earth .
But as long as there is still one person on Earth alive who remembers him , he can go to Earth for a day , and that's how the musical is taken . He is allowed to go to Earth in the film because there's a problem and he has to go and solve it , which is slightly different than the stage version .
He must help his daughter , who is now 15 years , as 15 years have passed Earthside . Billy shows himself to his daughter , but when she refuses his star as a gift , he hits her . He then disappears and Louise , his daughter , tells her mother about the blow that felt like a kiss . Julie completely understands and knows that Billy is about .
Billy then tells Julie he loves her and then he goes into heaven .
And you do . It's a weepy , like I remember , like actually hyperventilating at the back of the stalls when I saw . Oh my gosh , you took me , that's right , and I did , didn't I ? I probably both hyperventilated . We saw oh my gosh , you took me , that's right , and I did , didn't I ?
I probably both hyperventilated we were both cracked , but you took me .
It was a present that's right , oh yeah so that , yeah , it's yes , it's not , it's not your oh , at the end it's um yeah yeah it's a sad one , the 1992 london revival uh got four oliviers , including best musical revival , best director , and joanna riding and jenny d won for actress and supporting actress respectively .
And the 1994 Broadway revival had five Noms and five Tony Awards , including Best Revival and Audrey McDonagh for Best Actress . There you go .
The original Broadway production was noted not just for its music but also for Agnes DeMille's stunning dance sequences and choreography , and I don't think you can talk about Carousel without talking about the choreography and obviously as a choreographer I will not stand for it .
And it obviously has a very famous ballet .
Well , it does so . In Act Two , de Mille choreographed a 15-minute dance suite . Mill choreographed a 15 minute dance suite to intro . It was to introduce the troubled louise who was the teenage daughter of julie and billy . Now , in my opinion , there's no need for a 15 minute dance suite and that's my one issue I have with this musical .
It's the same issue I have with my beloved Oklahoma . There's no need for the big , massive ballet . You can establish what you need to establish in less than 15 minutes much less . This one doesn't jar me as much as Oklahoma's , it drags it a bit , I think .
Yeah , maybe cut it to 8 .
Agnes Nabil pioneered an American style of dance that combined modern ballet and folk themes . In addition to Carousel , she choreographed the great musicals Oklahoma and Brigadier . Some interesting Carousel facts .
Did you know that Frank Sinatra had originally agreed to take on the role of Billy Bigelow in the 1956 movie version , but he backed out when he heard that extra time would be needed to shoot the film because of the new film technology at the time CinemaScope 55 .
Apparently he was very famously quoted to say I was only hired to film one film like shoot , one film Like shit one film . But technically , in his eyes , he was going to be doing it twice .
Oh .
But also that is what the rumour is . He withdrew as he was against filming the scenes twice , but apparently it was because his wife , eva Gardner , threatened infidelity if he didn't join her on the set of Barefoot Contessa .
Oh really , that's a proper scandal right there .
So the lovely , wonderful Albert Gordon McAray , who ended up playing Billy in the film . He said he had a feeling that Frank wasn't going to make it and he had sort of like learned that role . He had just come from playing their Oklahoma film version .
He didn't cut his hair and about three weeks after Frank had pulled out of the film he was found in a production in Dallas . So he went and did Billy on stage in a production in Dallas . So he went and did Billy on stage and then .
But I love him because I love his partnership with Doris Day and by the Light of the Silvery Moon and all of those films , so I just think he's a great Billy Bigelow too .
Very good .
¶ Liverpool FC and You'll Never Walk Alone
Obviously , I am a fan of musical theatre , but you also know that I'm a real fan of something else .
Yes .
What am I also a real big fan of ?
Wrestling no .
Football . I'm a big , massive football fan , aren't I ?
I forgot that this was a new thing .
It's not a new thing . I've always been a fan of football . Now it's a bit of a touchy subject because , obviously , my beloved team of Ipswich Town , up the Blues , who are we ?
We have been relegated this year , but so we're at one end , we're at the arse end of the table , but at the other end is Liverpool , who have just been crowned Premiership Champions 2025 .
And I did think it was very apt that they went and won that the week that we were doing this .
Because obviously , as much of a fan of football that I am , I don't appreciate them stealing musical theatre songs and taking as their own , because obviously the beloved Liverpool football fans do enjoy a rendition of You'll Never Walk Alone , the Rodgers and Hammerstein classic from Carousel , sung many times in the stands Now .
Musical theatre legend Barbara Cook was once interviewed and she knew Richard Rodgers really well , and when asked if Richard Rodgers would approve of the hijacking of his song , she raised an eyebrow , as only musical theatre performers can do , and replied well , dickie was always very facidious about how his songs were performed , so take out of that what you will .
I mean it . Always I struggled because I knew the song from Carousel . Yeah , and then I'm not . We are not a football family no , don't come from a football family and and get in followed it for years get into secondary school and my best friend is absolutely obsessed with Liverpool because of her brothers and I thought you were talking about me .
I was like I have never been a fan of Liverpool . No , and then I was like Hip switch till . I die .
Hip switch till you die . That is hilarious .
I tell you what we died this season .
Oh dear , there's always next year , isn't there ?
Oh wait , back in the championship It'll be nice to win some games . It's always much more fun when we're winning .
So you'll be with Wrexham then .
That's correct .
So maybe we'll see you in the stalls in the next series of Wrexham .
Absolutely . I mean , I do have a stand named after me . It's called Bluebells . Oh lovely , it's getting a bit bunch my surname's , bell , for any listeners that are wondering what I'm talking about .
But , yes , always intrigued me why a football and why grown men were singing a song from a musical whenever they had no idea that it was from a musical . I know , but anyway , there we go .
The world is a bizarre place , isn't it ? But it is amazing in popular culture just how many times a musical theatre song can jump in . Also , on a recent visit , I went to see a concert .
I thought you said on a recent like football festival it was a Jim Bob concert .
Jim Bob , he's a singer you won't have heard of him . He was once upon a time in a band called Carter , the Unstoppable Sex Machine , Right , okay , well , let's just say I've been introduced to a mosh pit .
Oh .
It was an interesting time . But amidst moshing in the pit , he all of a sudden sings the Impossible Dream .
There you go .
It was a good version , to be fair . There you go , really good , and then you're going . Who would have thought , who would have ?
thought .
Shepard , shepard , shepard , shepard , shepard , bush Empire . I'd be listening to a musical theatre classic . Anyway , let's move on to what we've learnt from Carousel .
Well researching , I didn't know . Even though I had a love of Carousel , the musical , I didn't know that it was based on a play , so it was definitely my first musical .
Eric Olingo .
Then in . You're a Queer One , Julie Jordan .
Yeah .
And half the time your shuttle gets twisted in the threads till you can't tell the warp from the woof .
Yeah .
So , as I had mentioned earlier , they're mill workers , so this just means the threads that run lengthwise on the loom , while , with or with threads run across , creating the fabric's texture .
Yeah .
And I probably should know that , with my mother being wonderful seamstress that she was , but I didn't know it .
There you go . I was quite interested in the history of carousels . First of all , the fact that Billy Bigelow was known
¶ What We Learned: Carousels and Clambakes
as a carousel barker or a carnival barker , and I was like barker . That's weird . But a barker is a person who attempts to attract patrons to entertainment events such as circuses or funfairs by exhorting passing members of the public , announcing attractions of the show and emphasizing variety , novelty , beauty or some other enticing feature .
Now , apparently , professional barkers strongly dislike the term oh , right , okay yeah , and generally refer to themselves as talkers . Oh , okay , so there you go , so I didn't know what a barker was .
Also , it was really quite interesting because obviously I'm just back from a London trip and we were walking down the South Bank and what was in this on the South Bank ? But a beautiful , beautiful , beautiful carousel and at the front of the carousel .
It's amazing where you get your research from for this podcast , but was this big billboard about the history of carousels and I was like I have to take a picture . I have to take a picture for the pod . Um , so the name carousel originated you know where ?
it originated from .
It originated from the old Italian Spanish word carasello or carasella , meaning little battle . Oh yeah , hence the horsies , nice . This was because early machines were used for cavalry training in the 12th century . Carousels first became popular for entertainment in the great public parks of Europe in the 1700s and then . Early carousels had no platform .
The animals would hang on ropes or chains and they were often powered by animals walking in a circle or people pulling on the ropes . Then , by the mid 19th century , platform carousels were developed and powered by steam . Then electrical motors then were installed , electrical lights came , and it just developed and developed .
Interestingly though , each country had like its own variation of the carousel , and one of the notable differences was the direction of the horses .
So american carousels rotate counterclockwise right , okay , that's cool I'm sorry , like I just became a bit geeky when I saw the sign I literally stood there for 10 minutes reading it that's fab there you go I love it .
I do love a good carousel .
I mean .
I've been on a few .
A bit boring for me . Oh , I do like them , although with my vertigo attack that I had a couple of years ago , I'm not so sure I could go on anything else in a funfair other than a carousel , yeah , so it's probably the only thing . So I might just have to learn to like lump it .
Like it or lump it . There's beautiful carousels in Disney and we also did a lovely one sitting at like an ice cream parlor in Santa Monica oh , their peers are really nice , fun too . And a couple in San Diego as well . The kids like a good carousel .
There you go .
And you see , you need to also watch Schmigadoon . Yeah , because one of the main characters . Aaron Tveit's role is Billy Bigelow .
Is a barker . Is a barker , isn't he ?
Oh there you go . So I also learned in If I Loved you , a beautiful song We've talked about , if I Love you on the pod .
Already it was in our top five . It was for Valentine's Day Musical theatre love song .
So top five . It was for valentine's day musical theater , love song , um . So it's between jilly and billy um . And she says I'm never gonna marry . If I was gonna marry I wouldn't have to be such a stickler yeah um and a stickler , then , is somebody who insists on strict observance of rules for or a particular way of doing things .
I think I'm a bit of a stickler , yeah .
I think everybody can be a bit of a stickler for certain things , can't they ? Yeah ? I agree , Like you know some people are a stickler for rules as in you would never break a rule and other people for taking your shoes off in the house , or you know all of those little little things .
But I can't remember if we talked about this when we were doing our Valentine's episode , but , like lyricist , oscar Hammerstein solved one of the trickiest problems in musical theatre with this song how to get a credible love song for two people who have just met .
So , like previously , when two people meet in a musical , they instantly fall in love and they sing their hearts out like how this undying love In an age of naturalism in the theatre . Audiences were finding that unconvincing and Hammerstein solved this with the conditional love song , which is now a standard in musical theatre .
He was paving the way to conditional love songs in his earlier musical Showboat In that a couple sang make believe , only Make Believe . I Love you . Okay . Then in Oklahoma , curly and Lori , they sing what's their conditional love song .
Don't Go Gazing At Me which is in .
people will say we're In . Love . We're In Love , okay , where they explore and they worry about their feelings . Which is in . People will say we're in love . We're in love , okay , where they explore and they worry about their feelings .
And then , finally , carousel , hammerstein creates the perfect celebration of tentative love and the fear of emitting one's growing feelings with if I loved you , ah , there you go . I love that . We saw .
I also think it's really clever play on the lyrics they sing . Words wouldn't come in an easy way round in circles . I'd go that kind of yes . So clever isn't that of Hammerstein ? You know the idea of a carousel . I know you know going idea of a carousel .
I know going round , but also perfectly illustrating the character's tentativeness to the situation and also because you know there is a little bit of hesitation because of the job he's doing , especially at that time , and what she's doing , and how will that look to other people and just everything .
Not a warm character , I think that's where I sometimes struggle , like , don't get me wrong , I love Carousel and , as I said , I'm a blubbery mess by the end of it . But he's not a likable . He's not even a likable rogue like he's a badden , yeah , like he's a naughty boy . Yeah , do you know what I mean ? Like you're just right to be tentative .
Julie Jordan . Absolutely , but sometimes , when the heart calls you just got to go .
That's it .
Give it to him good Carrie Excuse me . Give it to him good .
That's a song in the show . It is it is a song .
It says get away you no account , nothings with your silly jokes and prattle . And that just means foolish or childish talk .
Yep .
And then pollywogs . It says pollywog's head , and that's just a tadpole . Oh , a pollywog is a tadpole A pollywog . That's a great name , because then it says it's a pollywog and it doesn't grow up to be a frog .
Oh , that's a cute line yeah . I don't know much about that song , like it's not one I'd have on repeat . Those are interesting musical eras .
It's maybe one of the ones that's actually taken out of the film . There's two songs which are taken out , I think Queer One Jilly Jordan's taken out as well .
I'm not a big fan of the film you see , of the film you see , so I'm a musical lover .
three and three one of the songs I hope you got more from that and also they so Carousel and Oklahoma and Seven Brides , and all of those ones would have been on in the house whenever my mum was making costumes .
So it's always one that's like on .
TV wise , and it's one of the ones from the collection she has , so there's loads of background information on it . But so that's probably the first time I heard about a clam bake . Now I'll go on to more whenever we've got the clam bakes on , but it's mentioned in give it to him good carry which .
But a clam bake is just an outdoor seafood feast associated specifically with new england , and often it is seafood cooked in a hot pit and steamed over hot stones .
Yeah , often the pit oven it's in with seaweed . I didn't know what a clam bake was . Oh , what a real nice clam bake . There are some clangers . I have to say I think a real nice clam bake is a funny old song . Oh , what a real nice clambake . There are some clangers . I have to say , like I think a real nice clambake is a funny old song .
Oh , it is , and it's the opening of Act 2 , isn't it ?
It's just a bit bizarre . Like it sets the scene , it does the job it needs to do . But I'm just going seriously . Is this song in the same musical as You'll Never Walk Alone or If I Loved you ? Another one that has me tittering and giggling because I just can't believe it's from the same musical is June is busting out all over .
It makes me giggle every time . I'm like what a hilarious musical theatre song . And you know what they love to do it in their musical concerts .
They do .
Like I don't know how many Junes I've heard busting out of the scenes .
Let me tell you yeah , it's almost like one that you would feel disappointed .
Short change if you didn't hear it . It's like I'm going to a music concert tonight . They'll definitely sing Junes busting out all over and sing June is Busting Out All Over and it's a certain generation , isn't it too ?
So it always sounds a bit warbling June is Busting Out All Over .
It just makes me giggle .
I love it .
They sit in June is Busting Out All Over . They sing May , it's like lyrically it's really clever . It goes through the seasons and all the rest of it . May is full of promises , but we didn't keep them quick enough for some , a crowd of doubting thomases . Now you maybe knew this , did you ? I didn't .
¶ Favourite Songs and Final Thoughts
I . I wanted to know where doubting thomases came from the bible . Well , now I know a doubting th is a sceptic who refuses to believe without direct personal experience . And it's reference to the Apostle Thomas . Okay , he refused to believe the resurrection of Jesus until he was shown proof of the crucifixion wounds .
There you go .
But you see , that's something . You're a very good person . I don't know .
Soliloquy oh here .
What did you have more on clam bake ?
well , I haven't got on to clam bake yet , but you did .
You told us what a clam bake was but clam .
Listen , I told you clam bake . The word is just mentioned in .
Give it to em good carry well , give me the clambake , then the real nice clambake .
Okay , and then we'll go back to soliloquy .
I love it , see . I love playing you and winding you up , because I know you love to do your musical lyrical lingos in chronological order that they come in the musical , and when we go out of order you lose your .
I'm a bit of a stickler .
You are a bit of a stickler , Taking in order what's next ? It's a little gray .
It's a little gray , which is .
Billy Bigelow's Big Isle .
And I have loved this song from I Was Little because I think I love that realization that he has halfway through where he says you can have fun with a son , but you've got to be a father to a girl .
And I think , as a girl who has the most amazing father and has the most amazing relationship with her father and he would do anything for me I just love the idea of that . And then , obviously , now I have in the most supportive husband who is a wonderful father to both my son and my daughter . It's just lovely to be like .
These are wee thoughts that go through , you know , people's heads .
And it's the power of the like . Hammerstein is probably the best lyricist there ever has been and I'll put it out there now . If we ever do a episode on our top 10 musical theatre , numbers like Soliloquy will be in my top 10 .
Yeah , without a doubt . Yeah , no , it is Absolutely .
It's a stunning .
Beautiful . Musical theatre number , and I think yes , it is very long , but a soliloquy is long , I know , and I think yes , it is very long , but a soliloquy is long , I know .
But as you say it's that rollercoaster of emotions and feelings and realizations that he goes through from start to finish .
And I think , if you have a fantastic actor playing that role that you will be , you will feel that at the same moment that Billy and you'll get that realization and everything then will be like that's the part that you start rooting for Billy . Yes , that's right , because everything before that you're like he's a shit , excuse me .
Yeah , also , that was the first time I learned that opera glasses are called lorgnet Because he says about when he's talking about his son and he'll marry and he's quite rude , you know .
He'll marry his boss's daughter and she'll give him a peck on the cheek and she'll call it a kiss and um and she'll look at it , at him in his eyes through a lorgnette , like not even look at him properly like look in his eyes yeah , yeah .
There you go . Can we now ?
go to a clam bake . Now we can go to a clam bake .
We can go to a clam bake . This was a real nice clam bake . Go on then .
Fittles .
Okay , that's what I had .
Okay , go for it .
Well , I didn't know what a fittle was . Now , am I right in saying fittle is just supplies of food ?
Yeah , so it's a word from fictules , which has been an English language from around 1300s , but it actually comes from Latin fictulus to mean nourishment .
There you go and they sing the vittles we eat , E-T , yeah , E-T like it .
Yeah , the vittles we eat and the word is associated with the rural south cowboys , pioneers , mountain men and the like . So it is something that would be said for , like you know probably what we would say in our brunch .
Get the vittles out , yeah .
Speaking then of Clambake , can you name all the different foods that they mention in the song ?
Not really Trout Not once Salmon , not really . Trite , not once Salmon .
Not once .
Mussels .
Not once .
Clams Well done Prawns .
No .
Lobster .
Oh , good yeah .
Starfish .
Starfish .
Pufferfish .
No , okay , I'm going to tell you so . They start with codfish chowder and the onions rise to the top .
Okay .
Salted pork .
I thought it was seafood .
Oh yeah , why have I got pork ? Don't know , I've got pork down anyway . Red hot lobsters . And what is the red hot lobsters doused in ?
Dill .
Melted butter .
Melted butter .
And then we've got clams .
Clams Okay .
Yeah , okay .
I'm not a big fan of the chowder , but this is lies . Here's my feelings about seafood chowder .
Chowder .
Chowder . I would love to try a seafood chowder , but I chowder , but I just think I'd be sick , would you ? I think it's too creamy for me and too fishy . I love , like I love fish , and that's . That was one of my new year's resolutions a couple of years ago , that I would try and start eating more fish . And boy , have I loved it . Gone for it .
And seafood , chud is the last thing .
I have to try that .
I'm not , having done lobster actually either , or mussels oh I'm not doing very well , um , but the fish variety I've done well , um , but , and you would be in a restaurant and it would come out and it like smells amazing yeah , it just looks really creamy and really fishy and I don't know if I'd I'd cope okay , I love all fish , all types of fish , and I
would usually order and if I , um , you know , having a girl dinner or like there's nobody going to be in the house , I will just make myself a fish dinner , because not everybody else really likes it in the house and seafood chowder .
So I am going to recommend for you to buy Lidl's seafood chowder , okay , because then you can try it at home and then , if you don't like it , you can just book at home , but it's actually really nice , okay , but yeah , and I would make my own fish pie and everything .
Maybe I just need to come round here .
Yeah , just come round here Mussels lobster , I'll do the lot for you and we can sing .
That was a real nice clam bake .
Love it . That was my last Musical lyrical lingo . Glad to hear it .
I don't mean it . I never mean it . What were your standovations ?
Soliloquy and I do love your queer run , julie Jordan . Yeah , I do love it .
That's it . I was soliloquy . If I love you obviously . But do you know what one of my favourites is ? Mr Snow , isn't it great ? Oh my goodness it's adorable . Yeah , cass , isn't it great ? Oh my goodness it's adorable . It's when Cassie Casey , yeah , cassie , cassie , cassie , cassie . Carrie , carrie .
It's Carrie , not .
Cassie , carrie , carrie , it's Carrie is all . And I love her because she's like , when , when Julie then tells her about Billy and how she's met Billy , she's like oh , I'm so glad you've met him , because I've met someone too , but I didn't want to say anything until you'd found someone yourself .
And oh , my goodness , the way she sings about Mr Snow and his round-bottomed boat , his round-bottomed boat and him , because he's obviously a fisherman and he smells of fish . And she's like when I first met met him , he smelled a fish , an awful lot and it was .
And then she's like but I now love the smell of fish and it's like , oh , you're adorable I love it and I love that .
I love their relationship and I think if you didn't have that in the musical it would be too dark a .
A thousand percent you need especially in the early going . You need that because the Julie Billy relationship is so volatile . You need a truly loving , like wholesome . You know couple .
Yeah , and I love as well the song where he sings to her about how many children they're going to have . And like you know , we'll start with one and then you'll have two , and then she's she says something like and we'll have eight , and our house will grow and grow .
And she's like I'll grow and grow , like they're adorable , it's just lovely , yeah , in fact , I'm gonna listen to those two songs on my way home . I think like it's just really cute yeah , lovely , there we go . I'm glad we did that . Yeah , we haven't done enough , richard .
We say this every time and there's so many of them , but it's best to spread them out because they are quintessentially perfect , yeah , and they are beautiful , yeah um , and the thing is , we've been trying to do this one for a while and we just have been like , oh no , not yet , but yeah , it was good .
The time was right yeah .
And that is one of my last memories is that you got me tickets and we went to see it and it was lovely .
And we sobbed our little eyes out in the back of the stalls Like it was proper .
Yeah .
Wasn stalls like it was proper .
Yeah , wasn't it 100% , it really was . I can't help it . Um , okay , what would patty do ? Oh , here , which is really weird , because you did yours without me for last week and then I did mine this week without you . So what would you rather ?
see we don't plan this up .
This podcast folks lead the quirky moves in the time warp but you then asked me this last week no , I didn't , or march with the band in 76 trombones from music man oh , so we've gone from .
The parade passes by the 76 trombones , music man , because music man's another golden oldie , another favourite of mine , and we haven't done it on the pod yet . That and she poopy I'm all for she poopy , she poopy . It's another musical number in the music man .
I'm not okay with the music man oh , it's fabulous , let's do it .
76 trombones led the big parade with 110 cornets close at hand , that's the only song I know . Yeah , it's totally Music . Man , I still stand by my opinion of last week . I'm not a rocky heart , I don't have the physique . The physique For that basque .
You're not getting me in a basque , okay , no , just a gold lame pants .
We've moved on from the gold lame oh , that was , that was fun I can't remember what we're doing over the next next couple weeks .
But you know what I do know well it's going to be a musical and we're going to do some learning , so why don't you come back ?
so much listen . They can come back . Let's see if I come back , because I'm on a school residential trip next week . Oh , yes , that's right . So we'll see if I come back in one piece . Let's hope They'll be there . Our listeners will be here . You'll be here , we'll see , we'll see .
We'll see Okay well .
Wish me luck , pray for me , keep me in your thoughts .
Until next .