Reunion Part 2 w/ Josh Martinez

What's up everyone. It's me Devin Simone and.

It is me Davon Rogers, and this is MTV's official challenge podcast.

Devin, what are you gonna do without me?

What do you do?

I'm gonna miss you so much, but I'm excited to watch you on All Stars five and uh, you know, give my own personal commentary, even if it's to myself, my husband, and to you. I'm gonna just be texting you unsolicited. Davon, I saw that you did this, but I'm so happy to putting me in time out. Yes, so excited to watch our girl, so happy that she is back, and I know many of you guys are too.

Day you're gonna miss me.

I am, I am, I am, I am, I am.

I'm always excited and so glad that they asked us to do this podcast together. I've learned so much from you, and I've said that publicly before and I will always say it. You've taught me so much about this whole podcast and thing and just hosting and talking, and so I appreciate you and all your journalism that you've done spilled over into my life.

You are a natural and I do love and adore you and our friendship. I love our working relationship.

I love our friendship too, and we love you guys for listening and listening to our shenanigans and chiming in on your takes of things.

Speaking of takes, so Day and I.

Had homework which was to come with who we thought we represented as actors and actresses. You guys have been giving us such great takes all season longs if you guys have agreed with our takes. If you guys haven't, but we've appreciated the conversation. We love including you in it. So Day, I'm gonna throw it over to you.

Okay, who do you think you are?

Your career, your Challenge career, or just your TV career I guess maybe even your competition career. How does that compare to a famous actor?

All right?

So I was thinking about this and just just walk with me, people, because when I say this name, you're gonna be like, like, just walk with me people, Okay.

So I would say for the.

Challenge, I think I am the Taraji Pon of the Challenge And this is why I think when Tarahi came out, she came out swinging. In my very first season of the Challenge. I came out swinging, and everything we have seen her in since the first thing we saw her in has just been better and better and better. And I believe that every season that I've done since my first season has.

Been better and better.

And who knows what's gonna happen at saying.

Nothing I can go home first. We don't know, but.

I just feel like I have continuously gotten better. And then I also believe that when we see her name on a cast, we know we are about to be thoroughly entertained because my girl is going to show up on screen and she is going to bring it.

And I believe that can be said about me as well.

Now, if you think that I'm somebody else, keep it to yourself, and I'm going to.

Tell you right now who you are. Okay.

Now, it's gonna take a minute for it to click, and I'm talking to you our challenge listeners as well.

All right, so take a second to click, but just sit with it, and you will see.

That I think I'm frank. This person is talented. They are funny, and they've shown.

They have range. Now, okay, because.

They came out doing the funny, but they've also done some serious roles and have been nominated for awards on that too, So they're they're good across the line, right, they play well with others, they're beloved, they're a fan favorite. I say, DeVaughn Is Melissa McCarthy, me, yes, I think you're a Elizabe McCarthy. Melisa McCarthy, start right, right, But she's done some serious roles too and done a great job.

You've shown that you can get to see that, Melissa.

McCarthy, I could see that. You know now I am officially a double All Star, so maybe you know that's crazy. I never thought about that. I can see that. I can see that.

Okay, yeah, who are you? Okay?

So mine is between two and here's my first thought was who came out and did to you know, call him memorable? It sounds I feel weird saying that, but fine, whatever. This is just basically the bag of poses, done memorable moments and then like went on to something.

Else, like like just kind of left, you know what.

So this there's two, but there's one that I think probably represents more than the other the people, the actresses or actors. I think that my career might be similar to would be Drew Barrymore or Eva Longoria, Eva Longoria.

Desperate Housewives killed it Down, iconic Gabby Salise, I mean she will for ever be the icon.

But Eva now is in her directing bag, in her producing bag, and her creating shows back like Eva is, check her up on social media. That girl didn't disappear. She's just doing other things and doing them very well. And then Drew, of course is killing it with the talk show, hosting game right, rubin Oprah's arm and other things, and she's still beloved for the movie she's done. So those are the two that I feel like, you know, but Drew was a child star.

I wasn't really a child star.

I can see Drew.

I can see Drew because Drew definitely is an icon, and I've always loved me some Drew Barrymore. And then even like, and I'm gonna get a little personal, Devin and I have had some sisterhood conversations. So even that nurturing comforter that Drew is, I do that as well.

Right, So yeah, I think I'm gonna put my vote in for Drew.

Thank you.

What do y'all think? Yeah, what do y'all think? We want to know what you guys think? That's our last good fin we do.

And yeah, Dan and I confirmed we did win. We should have gone to the award show. We had some scheduled conflicts, so we couldn't make it.

Now in hindsight, so thank you to the Reality TV Awards for We'd like to thank the Academy for letting our podcast win. We were up against some heavy hitters and quite frankly, I didn't think we would win. Yeah, it's an honor. It's an honor to be a part of this Challenge podcast family. And with Day and Anissa and Tory, our producer Nicole, we couldn't do it without Nicole dealing with our nonsense.

And you guys are listening so very much. Thank you. We appreciate you. We appreciate the gold star.

And with that, Day, who are you giving your gold star for both the reunion and the season two?

So I just have one gold star across the board. I'm not saying one person. I'm saying for the reunion and for the season I'm going to give my gold star to the cast of Challenge Season forty. Of The Challenge Season forty, tony facts he is not allowed to be on this entire situation of the gold Star. I'm gonna put him in time out, and I need everybody else to come.

Over here and take a class photo. That's for me. How about you?

I were similar ish, I'm gonna give my gold star too.

Well.

I do want to give really quick props to Jordan for handing his props to CTA and Bananas when he was assigned the goat. I thought that was such a beautiful moment. Johnny's face looked sick when that result came out, and I don't necessarily blame him, but I appreciate Jordan honoring that.

It's true.

Look, bananas, when you go in other circles, people don't talk about.

The challenges that talking about banas. You just don't it. Just I mean, like, and same with ct like.

So yeah, So I love that Jordan at least did that because they I think they all are in the conversation of the goats and I think they're amazing, So props to him, But ultimately my gold star goes to the women of the cast this Sea, because let's be clear if we took out those women, this season would have been born as hell. I mean, the women were the ones who kept the feuds going when Devin got out, Who kept it interesting, who fired big shots?

Who stood on business times ten.

I'm talking Avery and Tory and Michelle and Rachel being the only one down, the ol one left on her team and still going like these ladies did the business. And I am so incredibly proud of them, proud to be a part of that group and the hopefully the inspiration that they show to people watching of just like

So cheers to you, ladies.

Who gets your time out of the season or of the reunion.

Tony the season, the reunion, the next season and all move forward like, because what's going on? Then you're gonna show us your drawls with the hole in it. Oh, thank you sir, did you catch that.

That dog even looked up to him like he was lying. The dog was lying on the couch. And when they were like when Maria was like, Tony, did you go home? Because you just like wanted to be home for Eastern he was like, no, I kid, you not go rewind that the dog's head pops up and.

Looks at him like this fool. Yeah, even the.

Dogs told us he was coming home, right right.

You told me a new bag of kibble would be here. Yeah, I get you.

I'm so excited about this season and I'm so thankful that we got an opportunity to be a part of it. Both they're in Vietnam as well as here covering it in the podcast.

But I am excited about this final episode.

Yes, we finally got my baby on the podcast.

Now he's been running from us, but he is finally here. Friends and family pay attention. So we have Josh Martinez on the podcast after this.

Oh my goodness, I'm so excited because our final we say the best in my opinion, for last, we got my baby.

My little brother is here. Let's give it up for.

Mister Josh Martinez has come to the podcast.

I love you so much.

Welcome.

I want to start it off because you had to go toe to toe with a lot of your air quotes people.

That's why we need.

Visuals, your free vacation alliance, your friends.

You had to go toe to toe with a lot of your friends.

Like how And we can see in the reunion that that really took a toll on you, Like we know that you cried.

I cried too. We in tune what our feelings. It is, what it is, But.

You can see that you were really broken by it. How are you all now?

Yeah, damn, you're starting off strong.

Yeah, because I want you to tell you a story.

I think the reason why I was so emotional at the reunion was because leading up to it, there still wasn't a conversation that was had I hadn't talked to Casey, I hadn't talked to Devin.

You know, I've been friends with these people for so long.

You know when it's not right, you know when it's not like that, it's rocky and something doesn't feel right.

Had you reached out to them and they just weren't responsive, or had you guys just been so busy you hadn't really had time to connect between you know, airing and before going on the reunion.

Well, I think Casey was just checked out with the season, and then obviously there was things going on in our personal lives where like it just didn't seem important.

So me and Casey hadn't talked about it. But then I saw the episode air where she called me a liability and I was like, oh shit, yeah, so all.

Of those feelings, you know, reliving the whole thing came back up. But me and Devin yet we hadn't talked. We tried, but it was always like it was awkward, and I'm like, damn, our relationship did not feel the same.

It did not feel the same, if I'm being honest.

And those were the two relations those were there two people within my friendships going in that I felt so solid with. To then walk away from the season and not be how we once were that was really hard.

So so where are you now? Do you feel better with both? They're like we're okay, yeah, but not the same.

It's not the same.

No, it's yeah, do you think it'll be able to become this?

Like?

Do you think it just needs more time? Or do you guys think that there's do you think there's been a fundamental shift, just that like, you know, you'll be cool, but it'll.

Never be what it was.

This is and I said this, I did like a little post about it because people always ask me. I think the thing is, I'm always gonna have so much love for them, like these people, I get it. Some people are like, oh, the vacational line. The reality is like we just all connected and bonded. I think it was season thirty seven where we all kind of clicked.

So they've been such a big.

Support system for me that for me to throw that friendship away when I was down bad mentally and people didn't know, and they were the ones that I would call that's stupid over a game. So do I feel like right now if I saw them everything would be okay. Yeah, there's so much love, there, so much history. But in reality, if we were if we were thrown back into a game, I don't know how.

That would shake up.

Yeah, And that that's the hard part that it's like, I mean it would we would just have to see. But I just don't know if we would play as closely. I don't know, if not from my end, from their end. I don't know if they could tell me that, but I don't feel that. I don't feel like they would be okay with me moving forward, just because of how everything went downe with Rachel. I feel like Devin and

Because right now it's good.

I don't bring that shit home, like I have love for them doesn't feel the same, No, But I don't have anything bad to say about them.

But yeah, the friendship definitely felt a little.

It's hard when you don't bring it home but other people do. And it's like the game is over.

I'm trying to move on, but there's so that wall there, so it's awkward. Do you think you have been evicted Fromfication Alliance?

I don't think I've been evicted, but questioning my stance And that's the frustrating part because everybody's like, ah, Josh has all these friendships and all these times, and yeah I do. I'm not denying it, but in all reality, like I would have gone against anybody else if it wasn't Rachel or Johnny like a vation alliance.

Those were my two closest friends.

So it's tough when they were at odds and I was kind of forced to pick a side.

I don't know, and then you know, Devin and Johnny have their history. That's all my battle. I thought I was doing right by staying out of it.

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That puts you in a tough spot. Do you feel like there's an unequal balance of power in the Vacation Alliance because even on at the reunion, we see the questions sort of directed to Devin, right, and he's the one saying there'll be an internal review, and then john A expressed she felt like the vacation alliance, not that she was necessarily a part of it, but that essentially they were trying to push her out or that she got got backed.

In a corner.

And again, it felt sort of led by Devin, like he's the king of it all. So do you feel like, yeah, that there's an unfair, you know, sort of hierarchy in it rather than it being an actual group equal, group dynamic.

What a question. Thank you damn.

That's a good one, because, to be honest with you, before this season, I didn't feel that. That's where I started getting turned off by them.

That definitely started to feel like that. It felt like Devin was calling the shots. Yep, that was never our dynamic.

Me and Devin played well together on thirty seven because he had his people, I had my people, and we were allowed to play our own games within that protecting each other. Right, it definitely felt like he was you know, like when when ERA four we went a lot of dailies, so they were expecting me to influence my team, But I'm like, bro, you got Corey beating the shit out of the field during the challenge. There's no way I'm going to sway this man to save Era three now.

I don't do well with.

Him dictatorship, Yeah, don't.

Yeah, and correct me if I can't. I don't deal with that shit.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Because I'm trying to think back to when the Vacation Alliance was first introduced.

I don't recall Devon being in it. Didn't he get edited on later?

No, he was. This is the thing, I don't even know when we became the Vacation Alliance, Like the fans created that.

Yeah, readit. You'll find the origins on Reddit.

Yeah.

Yeah, all these like tea accounts created that. So it's like we never really named each other that.

But it really where we became a core, Where we became like a unit, if you want to say, was on thirty seven where Nani in Fessi and Casey were like, all my there were my people, and then it was Torri, Anissa and Devin and they were kind of on the other side and we just linked up and that we became kind of, you know, a crew because I had traveled with them before that season.

We went to Mexico, we got invited on a influencer trip, if you want to say, and then that's where that all originated from.

And then after that we went on vacation together. But that's where it started.

We kind of talked about that on the Challenge Aftermath. It's actually still on YouTube for those listening who want to see it. The whole season of Spieslies and Allies after Math is there and you can see it sort of developing, and then it definitely felt like an equal dynamic, like a group as a whole versus because like now the Vacation Alliance kind of feels like the same crap they gave Johnny for, you know, Johnny's Angels, it's.

Kind of feeling that way, but like Devin's.

You know, people, at least in this particular season, What are your thoughts about the controversial self nominating I feel like this is a conversation that's been going on for a very long time in the challenge and how, you.

Know, people do it.

Some people think it's super dumb, some people think it's very smart, some people think it's honorable. You know, john A felt like she was really forced to do it. You said you would do it and then backed out, which was a hilarious sort of montage.

You're like split screen.

To see why when you're like ct Yeah, what are your thoughts about it now?

I think it's stupid.

I think it defeated and made for boring TV that was set up to cause so much chaos, Like.

I'm calling you while I'm putting you in danger. Your ass is going in Let's start a fucking fight and I think Brad was the one that set that off, and.

I was like, no, no, no, no, no, listen, I'm gonna say here. I'm gonna say it on the podcast. I'm gonna announce it. I'll tweet it. Your boy doesn't want to go down in the sand. My fucking social game is impeccable. I will get I always get to the end. I don't need to see the sand. I don't want to see this. The purpose is not to see the sand. You guys can have all your elimination wins and I

Sitting prey Yeah, n and my girls are never gonna say my name yea. So it just I I didn't like it obviously.

So yeah, I think there's a time and a place. I think, like, you know, there was the iconic moment. It was funny seeing Jordan's say on that stage, like you know, you don't self nominate to go into the sand, you know, like you're just self nominating to be a target. You don't self nominate to go into the sand, going to sands dumb when he obviously had one of the most memorable moments in Challenge history of self dominating going into the sand and it not working out in his favor.

Yeah, No, well, I'm glad two points. I'm glad that you.

Said that because what I realized as soon as we left the sand and I got on the bus, oh Air four wasn't.

Even looking my way.

Oh the awkwardness, the tension. So I was like, you know what, I screwed them. The next one I'm going to take it. And that's the next one I did self nominate. Yeah, because we had such a good team dynamic. We were competing so well together, we were getting along so well that I didn't want to be well I was the one to kind of like fuck it up, and I was like, you know what, let me do my right, Like, let me fix that.

And then after that we were good.

We were smooth sailing, but exactly what you said, like for the team morale, the team dynamic. I realized that that was a wrong move in kind of crossing them, so I learned from it and I changed it.

Now.

The reason why I backed down in that moment was I was all in. I was all in, and see Rachel comes up to me walking into the sand and goes, don't go in back out.

See, she just heard that you'reself nominating. So he's gonna self nominate. But he went up to a Era one and was like, I'm going in, Like I want to go in. I'm gonna nominate myself. I'm good. So Rachel instantly runs over to me.

I don't know if she's I mean, it's not really, it's irrelevant, but she comes over to me and she says that, and.

I'm like, oh fuck that. Yeah, you know, she kind of looked out for me in that moment, and I'm glad she did. Either way, I think we were gonna be good. Well we ended up winning. Didn't we win that daily? I think we won that daily? Confirm me.

She was like, yeah, he wants herself he heard the names that were being thrown around, and he wanted a self nominated So I was like, no, I'm good.

Yeah, it sounds like ches to me.

Yeah yeah, chess to me. Yeah, no, I agree.

I thought about you when it came back to you, you was like, oh, I'm done, goodbye.

No, I am good. I am so good off that. Yeah.

What are the on the Bananas Angels Alliance?

It's funny because I fucking love all of them and I get along with them, and I was kind of essentially protected by them. Also, I wasn't Indie Angels, but I mean it was Rachel Jenny Avive like I rocked with them.

But I don't know, I think it's funny. I think that this is the thing.

They became really close towards the end once Michelle and Tory had I love them, but they had a heart on for Johnny, Like once Devin left, they had for Johnny. So like where you know, joining tells toy you kind of did that to yourself.

It's true.

I think Tory was the originator of the Angels. I think that she created that group because you know, if it wasn't for her gunning for for for Johnny so hard I don't think that group would have been as tight as they were. I think that once Devin left, it became two sides and it didn't have to.

Be like that.

Yeah, so yeah, I do think Jordan had a point in saying.

That at Tori.

Yeah, yeah, that's fair because she did decide to go hard this season and Michelle, I mean, for Devin not to have been made it that far into the season, he sure was a presence, you know, in the outcome, which is crazy. Something else that was a presence was Laurel's purse on the stage at the re union, and I haven't figured out why, because it was for the church. I get it, But girl, just bring out the book. You don't need the purse sitting on this play. Just

I don't we don't need to see it again.

And the book, my girl said, I'm going to be a mean today.

Not going down in history as best.

But it just the literally I'm not you know what, because I do I like Laurel very much so that pot if look, if they had done the same thing. To be clear, I'd also I would have texted her in this moment, and I'd also be reading.

Dam your pocket book backstage with your granny, what are you doing?

But by Hayler found out, we're not doing it right.

It was a whole I mean, and it didn't even match the out and then she had the long strap.

Okay, anyway, what how long did she read the book for?

It didn't yet tell us about the book? Please?

The book keep coming out randomly. I think car would talk, the book would come out.

Like was she trying to pretend she was just reading because she was bored?

Yeah, I don't know.

I think it was okay, Yeah, the book thing was interesting.

What was the funniest moment to you at the reunion?

Oh? The funniest moment. Oh shit, Nea Mayah. He had the worst hangover of his life. Obviously, we're in Amsterdam, so the night before we partied, Nea Maya was running off the stage every five minutes, yacking in a bucket on the side of the stage. And then we heard it.

Yeah, we heard it.

It was so bad. I felt for the dude. And then we just went out that night and did it all over again.

No, no, y'all later, right, I mean, you would do that day, even if you were feeling good, good plan. We would have to convince you to come out regardless. Okay, okay, okay, we know you.

You know Josh.

Now, thank you Josh, Thank you Josh, we know you.

Jay.

I have my back.

Got to drag her.

I saw and that we would do take us back to previous episodes so I could drag him just a little bit.

I don't want to have my size Josh all season.

Listen.

The fans always tell me they're like bro Dave Von rides for you so hard.

Listen.

Day knows the love that I have for her even before we even met, you know, but I was a fan first and then we became friends. But I just want to say this on the podcast day, thank you. I love you with my whole heart, picking up and being in my corner, but I love you.

Okay, she's sticking up for you against me. I'm not going at you that hard, Josh.

But time to time, all right, time time, Josh, I do hold you to a higher standard and time time it's fair.

I don't do myself any help, so I know it's you.

And remember the advice we gave you back in Vietnam and Day and I were aligned in that where we said, we see you as a selfless person, okay, and we want you to do more for you.

Guys came into my room and we're like, listen, don't play the Vacation Alliances team game.

Play your own game. You know, you know you corner and I get that. And you did it, and we were proud of you.

We are proud of you.

We were definitely proud of you.

Yeah, listened, yes, yeah, And now you see it was justified though, right because look, even if you guys become and hopefully that friendship is restored, because like you said, it's a special bond. I think anytime you just do a challenge together, it creates this special bond that few people can understand the depths of what one goes through. But in as Jordan put it, in the name of winning, right,

Yeah, it's tough. Listen, it's tough for me. My heart. I wish, you know, I wish. I get so much shit for my emotions.

I get so much shit for the way I play, But I truly play with my heart and I've grown to like, really love some of these people like family, and dude, I spend a lot of when you do these two times a year or every every few months, like it's I spend more time with them than I do with some of my cousins.

So the bond is real and it's strong.

But yeah, I think I do you do just play a little bit more for me, and that's a big, big thing that I took away.

From this year.

Yeah, I'm intrigued to see that shift because I think you are indeed a powerhouse like so I am so interested to see how like that starts to play out and rooting for you in that way. I think it'll be a lot of fun to see and people should be worried. In the conversation of the goat, who did you vote for for male and female? Who did you say you think the goat?

I voted for Rachel, and I voted for Jordan. Okay, Rachel just the season that she had, Like.

But the goat is all time, not.

For the woman's side.

For me, it was between car and Rachel, Okay, Like I think that those two every time they've made it to a final, they've dominated. And I saw the season that Rachel had and I was like, she dominated the whole season. You know, she not only had one of the best social games, she dominated in the challenges and the arena. So and also just like from the start of it, she's the epitome of the challenge to me, like you started this shit and then you're in your forties.

Three kids in your later yeah, ude, twenty years later fucking killing it. Yep. So obviously big fan of her and and and I love her to death, but she she I just watching the season that she had and being there and witnessing it, like even watching it on TV doesn't do it justice. She for me, she's a female girl. Now. It was hard for the guys between Jordan and Johnny, like Johnny delivers in all levels, like Nady has not only won seven times that you don't

Obviously, winning seven times is fucking crazy, and he always performs when he's in the final. But I think on an entertainment level, the.

Guy, yep, when I tell you, there was days where I was like, dude, I just need to I need to turn off.

I need to like turn off the switch. I need a sleep for twenty four hours. I need to change. Like no, like you know, go call that person out, go do this. We're making he just delivered. Yeah, and he's like a little producer in the field, like he's a little bit Yeah. I'm like even witnessing him the way that he like would push Devon, but Devin's button go at Tory and he knew he wasn't doing it with an ill intent, but he's like, you know what,

So when you put put.

That into perspective, you're like, the reason the show is so successful was because Johnny puts his all into.

It, Yeah, which is all so Yeah, he's definitely definitely one of the goats.

But I mean Jordan just on a physical side, it's like nobody could touch him.

I think he beats every.

Single one of He beats West, he beats TT, he beats Johnny, he beats every single one of them in the final.

So like, who do you think.

Is the most overrated male challenger? Don't worry, we won't tell anyone. It's just us day.

I'm coming to you. I'm coming to you next.

Maybe that was a going to get me in trouble. It's just us, I think Wes.

I was thinking the same thing, Josh.

I was thinking the same I was just having this conversation with my husband yesterday.

I was thinking the same thing.

For two reasons. I think he's great.

We're working on our I wouldn't say friendship, but we're working on being civil if you want to say. But I think he's great, but he's either has dominated and made it all the way to kind of floated to a final wind or besides that, like first season that he had that he won every single elimination to the end, which I didn't watch that season, but I know that there was a season where he was a rookie and

I mean, his head was the bell was rung with his head by.

I just I just see.

Yeah, I've witnessed like the way that Chris kind of did him on USA too, Like I've witnessed him go out in ways and I'm like, damn, oh no.

To be clear, he was one of the first eliminated on Battle of the Seasons and Easy used his head to ring the bell on Halbroth.

So it was it was you know.

But that's that's a thing.

It's either he's he wins the whole thing or he goes out really bad. So that's the only I'm not saying that he's not one of the goats. He's definitely on the road whatever the fuck it is, or.

There we go. I can't even say the.

Rush definitely up there, but he's out of all of them, I would say that he's the least threat.

Yeah, yeah, day, what are your thoughts?

I definitely agree. And I know the fans are gonna be like you because you don't like him. Has nothing to do with that. I've been delivered.

God bless him, God bless him. I would say that. And and one thing's for sure. Even after our whatever it was, whatever, I still was on this podcast and I said, I'm going to give credit what credit is due. I feel like Wes has mastered the social aspect of it, the talking and the planting and all of the things to keep the attention off of him because he knows if he goes into the sand, it could potentially be really bad.

Yeah, and so I agree.

With what you said.

Yeah, whereas I feel like other ones are confident in the sand, Like Johnny's one of the most confident people in the sand. I don't know how many times he's lost. The guy goes down there, he sees the game, He's like, oh, I got this, and you see that. So I've played with these people in real times. I know what it goes into a daily and too a challenge to a limb so like, he's really fucking good in the eliminations because I know they're gonna go He's really good at eliminations.

Was that about?

Yeah, yeah, like you mentioned with Bear, what was that about? So yeah, it's it's definitely one of those situations. And then like he's great at dailies and we'll see that, so you know, he'll he'll do his thing. But I definitely believe, like you said, of the lineup of the people that we consider goats, he's like at the bottom of that list of that lineup.

You know.

I love how scared you guys are and how nice you're being. Let's just keep it all the way. Let's just keep it all the way plenty times, keep it all the way and be here, Yes you may.

Can I say something before we leave the West topic. I want to say we he's been taking shots my way on social media. I took a shot at him. Davon came into play and we jumped on a call and we decided not to take any more shots at each other.

So this is not a shot at West.

It's no, it's just this conversation It's a conversation that I started, and I was thinking about this the other day and I was watching one of the new shows he's on, and I was thinking about it, and I don't even know if I'd say Wes's master the social game. And look, I have nothing but love for my fellow Kansas Citian, but Wes his mouth gets him in so much trouble. I feel like he comes in, he's an excellent character, and he comes in with such an like energy that's very entertaining.

He like Banana's nosed good TV.

Like Wess one hundred percent is no wallflower and has a big personality. But the stats just aren't statting if we're talking about greatest of all time. Like Bro, yes, you won All Stars three and twenty twenty two, which is great, but prior to that, it was almost a decade since your last win, and I know you dip in and out, but like, yeah, Brah, I don't think that that goes into I think if he comes back.

He has to switch it up because everyone's learned his playbook.

Yeah, he uses the.

Same That's exactly what it is there. I think that the other ones have learned how to adapt to the times into the absolutely I think he knew how to play with real world people and all that gamers came in.

He tried to run game and it was like.

Oh yeah, okay, calm down, back up real quick in the house, roll it back, roll it back. Okay, as a real world y'all still want to tread light.

Like I'm saying, Big Brother and Survivor came in the picture and we saw through that. Like, I think West is such a cool fucking dude, but I clashed with him because he tried to run game on me.

Yeah, and so obviously I was basically against it.

You know, well, I look forward to seeing you guys on an episode of Rivals with Wes in the future to this conversation.

You're welcome to stay home, Oh Josh, lies you tell from your throat, lies you tell from You're welcome everyone I look for all right, we have to take a quick break, be right back after that.

Okay, let's get into it.

So, Josh, you have the vacation Alliance or that's pending, right, and then you have a duo with me, But then me and you also have a trio with Amanda, and so I want to.

Know that's what we can't do the devil. Well, this is the thing.

This is the thing that was frustrating with the Vacation Alliance this season was we all know we have relationships outside of our lines and we're never going to cross each other. That was, yeah, I necessarily want Jordan at the end. No, but I also let along with Jordan, so I was like, I'm not coming after him anyways. Like Jordan was somebody that I was close with out other guys, So we all had our people outside of our relationship, so obviously you guys would be one of

You know, how do you feel about her hot.

Shots at each other? I'm not That's not my fight.

I ain't shooting nobody. I'm standing behind you.

You want to have a group looking off for you at like a strong group at that because they we win dailies.

They win dailies like we're good.

I'm gonna tell you the truth because I ain't never going back, so I can say this.

Yeah, she's been saying that, Okay, right, I can say this.

Right, I would because I know that of your pending vacation alliance, I would be at the bottom of that list, so I would be doing things to strip you away from them, like I'll be trying to get them up out of there.

One undred percent.

I would.

I think that was Rachel's plan too.

Honestly, they gotta go, they gotta go.

I got one hundred percent, But yeah, I think how do you feel about her coming out at the reunion? Amanda's whole entrance, her hot takes on what happened this season?

Oh, I loved it.

Well, Amanda has been popping off on Twitter the whole season, so I'm like, something feels too calm, Like, something feels too We were even seeing it before. We're like what I think I said? I was like, why is Amanda not here? Like so when I see her walk out. I'm like, dude, and they were all talking shit before. Oh, I was like, light them up them. I mean, you saw the fears on their faces because she has no like, she has no mercy. She's like, you know, she doesn't

So okay, we were anticipating Amanda, Right, how did you feel when Tony popped up on the screen?

Oof, I have I mean I feel hmmm, be honest.

With you guys, go ahead, let it out.

I think that Tony like what Amanda said, I'm not I think it's Amanda said it.

You know. I think he just really pulled up for the chain. I do. I really do.

Yeah.

No matter how you try to justify, we witnessed that elimination, and there was no way in hell that this two forty six y four giant was letting a twenty five pounds you know, little fucking you know like he was. He wasn't giving his all, like he was checked out. He was checked out. And to throw yourself in.

An elimination so early on again, like for a friend or something like that.

But I'm like, bro, yeah, it didn't make sense like it made sense from an avery. I mean, it was still I wouldn't have done it, but it made sense for her perspective and being that like, look these are my rider, you know, like from the jump I made this decision. It'd be like if someone wanted me to vote in day or something for example, like that's that's

Them and now we're at a stalemate. He was just like so at best.

He was such a good dude. You were an Era three. Yeah that we're stacked if you really want to make it to the end. Yeah, had an easy ride because y'all was such a stacked team. I think that there were our biggest competition in dailies and just to see how he kind of, in my eyes, kind of threw it away. I don't know.

I think, you know, I think it's tough because I feel like everybody makes their sacrifices, everybody has their recent reason to be there. And obviously I think that the more that you do this, your heart gets involved and you want it so bad, like you just want to see it too. But it is sad when you see people not giving it. I mean, you don't have to be the best, obviously, but like put some heart into it. Yeah, that's what was tough. I also think that guarantees that's a nice little check.

Yeah, but there are other people who clearly wanted to be there, right, and we're fighting, and for Tony to kind of take up that spot, you know, is knowing that he didn't want.

Just to say that is my opinion. I'm not saying that that's the reality. Okay, what I witnessed, I didn't see one hundred Tony showing up at that thought elimination.

So let me say this because this was my hot take, right because I was I was pissed about the elimination with Lee.

That pat me off.

If you knew you wanted to go home, what was we doing because you could have spared Lee? Right?

Do you think that he gave his all in that elimination with Lee simply for Bragg and rights to say he beat Lee.

I don't know if it was like to say he beat Lee, But I think, like, you don't want to be the first one sent home.

Yeah you don't know that's true.

Ever want to be the that is true. So I think that's why he did it. But he knew that he would have both opportunities, you know. But I think, and then I think also, I don't know, I have a lot of opinions on this, but I think also he saw Tony was in such a good position.

He had a strong relationship. I had never played or met Tony. This was my first one, and I saw his dynamic and I was like, whoa, everybody rocks with him. Everybody Tony.

He's such a fun dude to have in that house because he's so funny and like chaotic, like he's just entertaining, Like he's like a bull in a china shop.

You give him some alcohol and he's like he lights up the room. Yeah, he was fun, but I'm like, damn, he has he's sitting pretty. This guy's so then to see that shift overnight kind of be like all right now, uh yeah, yeah, that was a little disappointing because I think he would have had an easy ride to the end.

Yeah, and he probably would have been interesting to watch if he had like made the time and been you know, like put yet put in heart, I put it. I feel like he put in more effort to pull that shorts butt stunt he did on the Zoom than he did into staying in the season, which is, you know, this is how you know I'm not coming back by the way Josh just say you know I'm.

Can't we acknowledge that he had holes in his shorts?

Oh I didn't look that hard. I tried to turn away.

I did.

That's a hole, a hole paused.

There is a hole.

Right the season what's filled with ups and downs and all the roller coasters and holes, makeups and breakups. We got the opportunity to see Kara and Tory put the pass behind it together. I want to know, is there anybody that you wish you can have a Tory Kara.

Moment with.

That I could have, or.

To know that you can have anybody that you want to mend the relations agreement and you want.

To mend and starts fresh.

Yeah, yeah, there's a few.

Actually, I think the two that come to mind are and I won't get into details. That's fine, Ashley and West. I think because West outside of the game, it's somebody that I'm not going to get too deep into it, but and not to get all personal and all that stuff. But I went I struggled really bad with the point I didn't know was depression. But I was in deep

That's amazing.

Would call me and be like, hey, I don't give a fuck about anything, how are you doing?

Are you okay? And would check it on me. That showed a lot about him as a person.

Yeah.

So in the game we don't see eye to eye. We've class We've had our moments. He takes shot, he talks about me all the time on Twitter, he comes at me. But when I think of Wes, I think about that time that in the moment he didn't know he was such a light in my life and I didn't know I needed But now to look at it and be like, damn, he helped me a.

Lot, and now you call him over rated, Wes, We're so sorry.

That is a mess.

Josh called him.

Over and he was over here check it on you and you're life, making sure you were aokay.

No.

Sometimes something that's a duality of challenges.

I love that.

I'm just kidding.

I still think he's overrated, but that's really sweet that and I love that duality, and I think fans times forget that, like some of these people on the back end are like real ones, you know what I mean, when you need them. I think is really special and really cool about challenge. So that's props to Wes for.

Forting that that was a really good moment. I ain't never seen that side of him, but that was a really good moment.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm telling you day he was somebody that helped me a lot because back home, I felt so much understood. Nobody understood what You're on TV. You're making money, you're traveling, you're getting paid. Yeah, everything seems great, but it's like, you're not in my shoes. You don't understand what it is.

You're in the public eye.

People seem to think you don't have feelings just because you're in the public eye. If anything, sometimes it makes it worse because so many people are comments on you.

No, I'm being in the reality space. I think I give God thanks every single fucking day for my family and the support system I have at home because I run to them whenever I'm down. I'm like, nop funck, this should go work out, go to your people. Thankfully, I'm in a really amazing space.

Now. I think you got to get your ass beat publicly, so then just come dumb.

To it to like not give a shit now laugh about it honestly when it's a good job. And I'm like, yeah, but it takes you breaking to get to this point. And I'm just happy on the other side that I'm at. But that's why I look at certain people like Wes and I'm like, no, like he puts he has this persona on TV, but like, all in all, he did check it on me on the rag and I appreciate that.

Yeah, So let me say this because okay, okay, okay, yeah, I did, okay, okay, okay.

During War of the World's Won, we had this hall brawl.

I think it was THEO and Kyle and it was out of control and Wes, for lack of a better phrase, was having PTSD and we beefing.

Heavy at this time.

But he comes over to me and he's like shaking because he's thinking back to his elimination and he's thinking back to it. And I've seen this looking it and that was the first time I got a little glimpse. I said, oh there, maybe it is a human right there. And so I'm holding his hand through the whole elimination.

And we'd been heavy.

Wow, but I'm holding his hand through the whole elimination when so I think it is important to say, yes, we have our moments on TV, there are characters, but we are still human. Wow. And that was powerful the human yeah yea yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

And that you didn't like jerk his wrist and try and break it in the moment holding his hand the restraint.

And I want to say something before we move on from this question and the reason I named an Ashley. We have our differences on a season. There was obviously a lot that went down that didn't air. But I think that there was a narrative out there that I didn't want to see her back on, or that I went to production and try to block her. And all I want to say is my heart cannot be more happy to see her on All Stars. Like will we

Even like, like Amanda said in the reunion, acually not being there for Era three was kind of wild, Like she's a champ.

The girl's dominated seasons. She's really good at the game. So I'm genuinely really happy for her and I'm rooting for her success and I hope she keeps dominating because she's she's just great TV.

Like, yeah, at all she's great TV. So I'm excited for her on All Stories.

You actually bring up a good point too, before we go the conversation or the debate between Era Won and Jordan around people coming on to revive their career, you know, like, oh, you're happy you got calls, And I think it was maybe Jody who pointed out or someone or no, someone pointed out. I remember, I think Derek pointed out. Just because I'm not here doesn't mean I wasn't called.

What are you all?

Particularly? You two take on that? Do you agree with Jordan? Do you think he was just lashing out because he was mad? Do you have a different take on it?

I do, Yeah, I think that at that point he was a little his back was kind of he was taking a lot of fire from a lot of people, like I think to everybody was just taking shots on him at that point, so he was kind of like on the defense. I wouldn't say. I wouldn't I would never say what he said because in all reality, every single person that was in Era one is the reason why the show is still around. I'm gonna give I don't care how bad they ship the bed I don't

They're drunken antics.

The blueprint, they filled the blue what.

It is yep, So I would never sit on a stage and say, oh, you're just excited your back and you revived your career. That's fucking wild. Do you think thank you for giving me?

It's also it is I think he does.

Look, I think he's not wrong, and sure that there are some people who are probably super excited to be called and had been called in years.

But I also think it's not accurate. We talked about this.

Just because I'm not back on the challenge doesn't mean I'm not called like it is. Some people are making choices based on other things they want to do or they've got going on, and it just isn't They're right to say it doesn't align with where they're trying to go or what they're trying to do, or I value my knees personally, but it doesn't mean that they aren't called, you know, or that they don't have the option. So like with Derek saying he takes time off, I believe Derek has been.

Called a lot, even more times than we've seen.

Him, you know, to come on the show, and I believe probably Rachel too, quite frankly, So, yeah, I think that that's a misconception.

Probably.

Yeah, I love Jordan to death. But that was definitely a bad take from from his side.

Well, two bad takes in one reunion. That and the suit that he wears for that is like, Josh, please don't get one in your size, sir, please.

I don't think I could pull off the soup. I kind of like the soup.

The vibe you're rocking now. Josh has a really.

Good fashion sense, I will say that.

Yeah, Davon your thoughts, I see you're making a face on what Jordan and his outfit.

Jordan's fashion sense I think.

I wait, we're award winning, Josh. We found out we wanted a war.

For this podcast, so yeah, let's talk about that.

We didn't even know we won grats.

Guys, look at you. Challenge podcast is thriving, baby. We ain't going nowhere.

We going nowhere, especially not day because we get to comment on her on All Stars five, which is amazing or not. You know, we're going to Josh, I'm gonna start Twitter threads specif with you so we can comment give hot takes on Davon's performance every week.

He knows I will an All Stars five.

Jesus, this is about Josh. Josh, I think you had a great season. I'm very proud of you for being very selfish shaking thinking about Josh this. As a matter of fact, we had Torri on last week and we made a statement that we come from Big Brother, right. But you've been on the challenge long enough for you to start adapting to the challenge, and so I need you to make that shift because in some senses, I'll watch you play and I'm like, oh, he's still in the house.

Get off the CBS lot. Because I see you, you still on the lot, get off the line.

I think you know, I agree. I think that what's so wild. What's so wild is.

That I think I'm one of the Big Brother crossovers that has played more like a challenger, Like I'm just an emotional, outspoken I'm either rocking with you or I'm not. I'm very open about it. Like I think I play a pretty up from the game. I'm just I'm a social butterfly, connected with connected, I'm a friendly fucking guy.

So I think that that's where like, oh, it's big Brother, big Brother coded. It's like, no, it's that's why I am naturally like my you know, you've seen me out in public. I'll talk to the Wall. Yeah, you know, so.

I just think that they easy to say that, but but no.

Josh weird are you? You're a gym? You really are? And know that, like when I give you ship for your game plates, because I care. If I didn't care, I just talk.

About I had a couple. I have some rider Dye fans. I don't like the word fans, some supporters, anything anything like it could be an interview, it could be an article.

They send it to me. And you know, they told me a couple of times this season that you were.

I was pushing at you because I want you to do better.

It's never there, like dude, dave On send me clips.

I'm like, and I stand by everything I say. You can always text me or DM me about it.

I did feel some type of way about it if I'm being honest with you, because I'm like, damn, I thought we were cool.

We are we are, And I always say my say you can always text or d m me. I know Michelle and I had the same conversation a season or two ago. But when I ride you, it's because I see potential. I'm gonna do the same today like I see potential in you where I'm like, Josh, this isn't serving you.

You know, like listen, the reality. The reality is like we understand what we're doing here, like this is their job. We got to give our honest opinion on ship. I know that I like I said before, it's like I know that when I'm on these shows, I'm a fucking wrecking ball, like I don't do myself any favors. So like, no, people are gonna have opinions about me. But yeah, it was a little bit in my feelings.

Well next, Josh, I'm glad that we could talk.

Yeah, I'm glad you told me.

Now, Sis, I'm dead serious, like, message me, hit me up, call me, be like bitch, what the hell?

I like, I will all or not well no, meaning like I'm not precious.

I'm not precious about it, like anytime. Keep to the supporters who keeps riding with Josh and sending him clips aka tattletales feel free and Josh, you can always hit me up on anything I say or come on the pod and we'll talk about it.

I'm I'm happy I did this.

Yeah really yeah, same and thank you for coming. For sure.

One thing about this podcast, We're gonna get some reconciliation over here. Okay, I love it. It makes me feel happy.

Josh. This is our final episode of the podcast for this amazing, amazing season, and we want to give you the last word on this season. Is there anything that you want to leave us with?

Oh? Ah, y'all are gonna make me emotion damn oh it's first of all, I fucking thank you so much for having me.

Y'all are smashing it and I'm so happy. A huge part of the success of this podcast is you guys, so keep fucking We appreciate you, Josh the stars that you are, but no, I being dude. The challenge has changed my life and being part of the fortieth season, I really walked onto the season with a little bit of like I fell out of place. I was like, the lineup was crazy. I think I was one of the only guys that hadn't made a final and had

Everybody else was a champ. Everybody has made it to.

A final or not a champ, but like you know, everybody made their Yeah, And I was like, damn, I fell out of place, and as a season went on, I kind of felt.

Like I belonged.

I was like, oh, no, I've done my thing. Like not everybody's gonna have be the champion, have the easiest ride to the end, be a multiple win, multiple seasons.

You know.

Not everybody's journeys like that. And my journey has been fucking hard. It is really hard lost, have the loss to continue to come back. But the growth that I've gained as a competitor, as a man, and the person that I've become because of the show has been thankfully one of the biggest blessings in my life. And being part of the fortieth season, playing with a bunch of icons and kind of you know, I think I made a little bit of a splash.

You did know You're an essential. You deserve to be there, your part. You were there for a reason. You have and I say this as a real worlder who we were fiercely protecting. You have made your mark on two amazing franchises like you are just as we claim you, just as much like on The Challenge as a Challenger as Big Brother, and it's it's while a win is great, and I do believe as you lean into this selfish era, like good selfish, gameplay, selfish.

I think you could take it all.

The way you even without a win, You've become you're a part of the conversation, Like you have made your mark on the show for sure, And yeah, we're like proud of you, very proud of you for watching your growth.

Thank you.

No, it was it was one of like, even towards the end, I was like, Wow, I just would wake up so excited and so grateful, and I was like, holy shit to be around these people and just be part of it. It was truly fucking one of a very special season. But yeah, when I come back and I'm in my villain era and I'm a dighead, you guys created this.

Bo Okay, Okay, we're not saying the dickhead I am.

I am.

We're just saying you can't make promises. You can't go into the.

Grocery store with five dollars in your pocket and try and get twenty dollars with them merchandise, So you can't promise to save everybody.

I'm lie, friend, Lie, Lie friend, Lie, Oh God, here we go.

And I'm like, you know what, I'm done with the Knights created a monster.

And so when your boy comes back on ten and you fluckers online and in the house, you guys created this monster.

Boy, oh boy, we will be set. We will be set until you enter that villain era.

Where can the people fine, the sweet, loving, carrying josh On, the socials of the media on.

Nothing continue to the solid.

If you followed me and have supported me throughout all these years, I love you, guys. Listen the good, the bad, all of it, all of it, every single the person that takes time out of their day to send hate my way, thank you. I love all of you, guys. I've learned to embrace it. I know that it comes with the territory of being on TV. I fucking love this life. I love what I do. I love doing this show. So at this point I'm numb to it.

Awards come on.

Thank you?

And he lying because we saw him flexing on Instagram about all the other shows that.

Making out with somebody in a pool somewhere.

I think our time is done. I think we I think we're done.

Remember you don't have to be an expert to help a friend. Just ask acknowledged support and keep in touch and for more information go to ask to help dot com. I'm so glad that we had Josh on love and love that we got to clear some stuff up apparently. But Josh's he's just so great and I'm excited. I like watching his evolution in the game, and I know you ride hard for him. I feel like sometimes we're like mom and dad, you know, good come back.

Yeah, you need a little bit of that balance.

But I'm glad that he gave us some insight, kept it all the way one hundred and to hear that he didn't feel like he deserved to be at forty, like, I really hope that he recognizes that he does.

Because Josh has become a staple in the show, yeah you think, yeah, yeah, absolutely for.

Sure for people who want to be a staple in your life day or just nosy and who want to watch All Stars five along with you as our girl makes her come back.

We've been working on her for years to do this where can they find you on social well?

As of January twenty ninth, twenty twenty five, you can find me on MTV four All Stars Season five, catch me before I go into retirement, because this isn't it okay.

So make sure you catch me there. You can also catch me on all of the social.

Media's at Davon Diane underscore, I'm going to be a lot more active, especially since you know now I got something to talk about.

So I'm going to be a lot more active.

And uh yeah, you can find me in Devin's comments on her social media's which are.

She's saying that because I commented on her social media yesterday and her asking and find it all right? So but you can find me on socials and cheering along Davon for sure. You can find me at devinsmone dot com. That's seven with y Simone with an I dot com. You can find me on Amazon Live doing some really fun stuff. They'll go to my Instagram and you should be able to see clips of that at Devinsmone Den with Wismoth and I. It's all the same on TikTok, Snapchat, Twitter, YouTube, you name it.

I am there.

I'm getting more into my like showing up part of my personal life this year on social that's a part of it all, so you'll get to see a little bit more insight and all the things.

And you, guys, we love you. I know, you know. We talk a lot of smack here. It's our job.

If we didn't, we'd get fired. So but we appreciate your support so so much. This podcast is just as much ours as it is yours.

So thank you for.

Tuning in this season, for listening, for writing with all the challenges, your favorites, the ones you love to hate, all the things do remember that they are people. Please in your commentary and regardless of how they're popping off, remember that we're all human.

But thank you for joining us for.

Another episode of MTV's official Challenge award winning podcast. To all your fellow Challenge fans to listen and make sure to leave us a five star review on Apple and Spotify.

And season forty might be done, but the Challenge never sleeps. The Challenge All Stars Rivals is coming soon, so stay tuned for Tori and Anissa's coverage available wherever you get your podcasts.

Love you, guys, and once again, thank you for tuning in. To MTV's official Challenge podcast.

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