Hey friends, it's me Devin Simone.
And I'm Davon Rogers and this is MTV's official Challenge podcast.
Devin, whoop, whoo whoo.
What an episode?
Yes, all the fields. I'd say this is one of the most intense deliberations. And I don't mean intense from like yelling arguing, but just like it's literally all power players sitting there and then Rachel at the head and so good. Yeah, it just it was Yeah, it was like there was it was no there was no winning kind of in a way because it's it's all just really key players that are and she was sitting there like the queen that she is. Yes, she was.
Oh.
I was so happy to see her win one finally to get a much deserved break. Oh, it felt so good. How did you feel, day?
I thought it was amazing. I thought it was absolutely amazing. But I did not like was the way they was jumping My friend Josh and this episoirl.
I mean, you have got to be tired from trying to carry and defend this man all season.
I'm tired. I got nothing else to get because it's too much. It's too much, and I'm just Josh, you need to come, hey, come on the podcast, because I need you to speak for yourself. But this episode was actually really really good. I'm so like, it was hard for me to find a time out.
Let's a go star, okay, because if you do your goal star? Are we rationing this week again, David?
I have two Let's split it right in half.
Okay, I'm split it right in half, my go star.
Half of it is going to go to the Queen Rachel herself. She gets one all half all to herself, and the other half I'm gonna give to Jordan. I cannot express the feels that I had watching him do that challenge with one hand, the way that he the camera at some point zooms in on his other hand where he's trying to grip the.
You know what I'm saying.
You see in his eyes. Nothing's gonna stop him. He's gonna fight, he's gonna give it his all. And just to see him, I mean, we see it every season. This is nothing new. This conversation has been happening every single season that he does. But there's just no quit like, there's no nothing. He will not be conquered by anything. Like He's like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna make it happen. And it was just so I was just so I was like, yeah, Jordan, like do it like it was just it was so good. So that is
what I'm gonna do. And then back to Rachel, not just because you know, she's in it by herself and she's doing the thing, which she is. I just want to say, watching her navigate this episode as a solo player was just so good. It was so good to watch. So, yeah, that is That's how I'm doing my start this week. How about you.
I have a couple of nominees. No nominees are different than getting the start. Okay, we've seen award shows. We know they get the nominees and then you so a couple. This is the Video Vanguard, only one person who's nominated and wins. So so here are my nominees for this week's gold Star. First up, we have Rachel. Rachel holding on like a g literally turn around me like y'all might want to go take lunch like such a g doing the math problems and being so fearless in the
face of adversity. Because I don't think we talk enough about what has got to happen to your mental when you are targeted week after week and you feel like you're on an island, Yeah, in a den amongst thieves, Like just really like that's hard. And we have seen people break with for support than what she has, Yeah, and so for her to show up with that energy every single time with her eye on the prize is
just astounding. So she's a nominie. Also, Casey is a g can we just I feel like Casey doesn't get enough props, mainly because Casey's not usually in the heat of the drama, right, Like Casey just kind of lays back in the cut. But Casey is a sniper. Casey is so talented, so good and just a great player all around and great person. So Casey's a nominee. And then Nia and Maya and his meditating, I mean Nia and Mayah went up there, shook an arm off a
little bit. He probably paid his taxes while he was up there. I mean, he just made it look so easy and that was very impressive. So those are my three nominees. But ultimately the gold Star is going to be handed to per Queen Rachel. I'm so glad to see her on top. She has fought every single day, like the whole time to sort of get there well deserved, and I'm excited to see how it continues to go and how it continues to play who get your Who's your time out of the week?
Okay, so it was hard for me to pick somebody for time out? But then this one person said this one little thing, and I was just like, why would you do that? And so you said a lot of great things about this person in your gold Star nominations, a lot of great things, and I agree with every single great thing you said about this person. However, is gonna go to Casey? Reason because she went after Casey. No, not not just that, but it was what she said.
She said, maybe we should kick him out of the vacation Alliance and I and as we know, Josh, and I'm just saying strictly personal, nothing game. He's gonna watch that, and you know that's gonna hurt his feelings and he's gonna be somewhere in the corner crying because how much he loves you, Like, why would you say that, you know, because you felt it, Why would you say that.
Well, he loves her so much, then maybe he should have stepped up to try and help save her. Not you caring? But what what what?
What? What could he say to Rachel? Do you really think Josh could have persuaded something to not do that.
And he could have said something better than do what you gotta do? I mean, you talk about him being offended, what about Casey being offended that he basically was like.
But Casey's not gonna take that person when the season raps, Casey's not gonna take that home.
Josh, Josh should leave that good. You cannot all be responsible for Josh's emotions, all right, at some point you have to take your healing journey and be responsible for not getting your own emotions. Well, then you'll love my time outses. So my time out nominees. One of them is our guest for this week, Devin, because I don't I don't know where he was in that Like I again,
he was giving he was giving Drell energy. Remember Darrell in the sand the other week where he just it was like he was so intently focused on the one thing instead of the bigger picture. Because we know Devn's capable. Now, granted, Kylan's a worthy opponent in this situation. Goodness, but yeah, like what was Devn doing, and then the other nomination goes to Josh and not. You know, I'm not the
only who feels this way. When the editors start playing little violins talking about mess, he does it to himself. So my actual award is going to Josh and Josh talking about leaning on the edge of the container, trying to hang in the look you can defend this man all he was trying to save his friend. That's absolutely nice. Absolutely the de Lulu is real real. I mean, he needs to get you on payroll, He needs to get you a card as the leader of the Josh fan club.
This boy is being a hot mess. He definitely gets the Time out of the week. Also, an honorable mention has to go to the editors. They are killing me when they showed me a Mayah like sitting there meditating, when we see tall in slow and then when they start playing the violinsic Josh, and then when they had the little superimposed what was it Tory on one side and then on the other side it was Josh. It was good.
Oh no, remember when I think I think it was dev and said when a Vacation Alliance member gets eliminated, like they steal their soul. Or something.
Yeah, and they seem they're taking it.
Oh, it was so.
Good that person needs to raise, like, shout out to you because the comedy is hilarious. Okay, this may be day the last week that we get to do ARA rankings because we don't know it's an it's an individual game now, thank god, because at least Rachel has a fight. Rachel like also a regularly Laurel team up. By the way, can you if you I mean like.
Yeah, that's terrifying, actually literally terrifying, literally terrifying, more terrifying than two devons on one podcast.
Terrifying. That is super scary. Who what's your rankings for the eras this week?
Okay, so Gold, I'm definitely giving it to error. Rachel for Gold, Rachel for Silver, Era two, Bronca Era three, and then Patient my era because why, I think they kind of dropped the ball this week. I really feel like they dropped the ball this week. Yeah, that's kind of fair for sure, Like I think that in that math they all relied on Kylon. That should have been a team and yeah, you could have got more pigs, you know what I mean. Don't just say oh, he's
the calculator. So he's gonna do all the work. No, he might miss something as he did, you know, so yeah they fumbled.
How about you're fair for getting the gold medal? This week for me is Aara Rachel for sure, done and done. I mean, how many of us, truly, as we watched this game, how many of us could say that as an individual, we would take out these other teams like that's just a ball and move in all the ways. I'd say silver would have to go to Yeah, I guess Era two gets my silver. You know, they didn't do anything outstanding, but they, like you know, played a
good and smart game. I'd say Era three this is tough only because of Devon's performance kind of drags the average down, I feel like, But otherwise I'm gonna go ahead and give them the bronze. And participation is to Era four, but largely because I don't know how I feel about Kyland picking Jenny again.
Yeah that sucks.
I don't know how I feel about that. It doesn't feel very good. And Kylin's gonna find out. He's gonna learn about going against these strong people, these strong women, and I'm gonna keep watching so we can find out for sure. Also We're gonna find out about this week's elimination. We are gonna find out what's going on with Michelle and Devin. We are going to find out all the things thanks to our upcoming guest, Devin Walker. So make sure that you grab us and you can go take lunch.
Like Rachel said, also sign up for Rachel Fitness because obviously it works. If you ever need to hang thirty feet over water, if you train like Rachel, you can do it. So sign up for that. But then make sure you don't go anywhere because when we come back, we have a fabulous interview with Devin Walker.
Hello. Friends, super excited about this episode. I am currently in the middle of a Devin and Devin sandwich. I have Devin Simone on one end and Devin Walker on the other end. Give it up. Devin Walker is here to join us on the podcast. People who.
Thanks for having me, ladies. I appreciate it.
Yes, Dev. But hello, how are you have you untangled any cords lately?
I cannot great opening question and I just I literally just moved. So I'm finding like, uh, I've noticed this about myself. I'm like a airplane headphone hoarder. Interesting and I have them all in a tangled web that just like eighteen hours ago through in the trash can because I was like, I'm not redoing this. I know I'll be here all day. I know how this goes.
I love that. Well, we don't love to see you go, but that's hilarious. Also, Dev We're gonna need to get you some Bluetooth headphones so that we can help your.
So I like the wires because I read some weird thing about Bluetooth like going through your brain and then like like being like, it's I don't know, it's I'm not I'm not what. We would probably have to ask Kyland about this, but there's something going on with Bluetooth headphones. I'm sure what it is.
Kylan would definitely know. I want to dive right into this episode because this wasn't This episode was actually power packed. We started this episode all with this disagreement between you and But what's the deal? I thought you guys were like smoothing things over. What did the beef come back? Like, What's what's going on? Walk us through that disagreement you guys had.
I'm so happy to finally share my side of this story. I have been silent all season, waiting for a platform, a credible platform. Yeah, to release my opinion, and let me tell you exactly, verbatim, how this happened. So it actually started before the season and I went to an event at Johnny's gym, and afterwards we went out, we had drinks, and Tory was also there, and he says, essentially, I can't be on forty for too long. I have
too much stuff going on here. And in my mind, I'm like, yeah, okay, this is the oldest trick in the book, and it's just a tactic to move through the first part of the game without anybody targeting you, because oftentimes if people don't know the trick, they believe you and they assume, okay, well this person's gonna, you know, not really be all the way in it. Maybe not lose on purpose, but like they got one foot out the door, right. I knew it was not true from
the beginning. So we get into the house and he brings it up again at the toga party and essentially says, you know, listen, I got about three weeks in me here and then I got a launch, got so much other stuff going on. And I say to him, very very clearly, I do not believe you. And if this is an attempt to manipulate me into not coming for you, which I wasn't anyways, then I'm gonna take that as
a shot, right, because you clearly have ulterior motives. Right, So you say three weeks, if you're still here after five, I'm going to help you pack your bags, And I said it exactly like that.
And other people could hear you? Like this was in front of a group or was it just the two of you, guys?
There was other people around. We were having a one on one conversation. But he's referenced this several times that I just randomly said at the halfway point, I'm gonna try to get you out of the game. I said that because his tactic didn't work on me. I knew that it wasn't true. And it's ct has done this, Zach has done this, Johnny has done this. Well, A lot of people have done this because they've watched it work.
And it's a really good way if you're a good player, to diffuse people, essentially by saying, listen, I don't I can't be here for the whole time. It's too long. I got stuff going on at home, whatever it is, a wedding, whatever responsibilities you have at home, I have to get back to those. It's more important, right, And a lot of people that don't know that will fall for it. So I just said, very clearly, you said three weeks, I'll give you five. If you're still here
after five weeks, i'm gonna help you go. And at that point he was unable to backtrack and say, well, actually, I was, you know, essentially trying to fool you, and let's let's not do this because that would be admitting that he attempted to fool me. Yeah, so that's where it started. And as he watches my relationship with Michelle develop, and he knows that I have an obviously very strong relationship with Toy. Michelle is you know, best friends with Ola.
There's a lot of ties there, right, right. So he's looking at all of those relationships like he's in a very Johnny way of looking at things. It's all about me. He's building these relationships to help stalk his arsenal for when he comes for me, which I don't care to do ever. I've always played this game, and we'll always play this game with the potentially delusional mindset that I can beat anybody in a final, so I don't care who.
I don't care who goes. I really don't, but I don't like getting lied to.
So do you think that was the impetus of him saying what he said to Michelle? Because I will say
as a viewer, not knowing this context, which is so helpful. Yeah, And as a view we also I also like to see even Benanas sort of getting along and all of that, like it's nice when everybody fights and thing comes together just as a whole, right, And so we see that, and then we see him talking to Michelle, and as a viewer, it looks initially like it was at a concern, which is like, hey, I care for you, just make
sure you know blah bla blah blah blah. But now with all the context you're sharing and seeing how it's playing out more and more, do you feel like that's why he planned? Like that's why he said what he said. Points Well, this.
Isn't a matter of opinion on my part. We can roll the footage which plays before this episode of him sitting down with Jenny and saying, Devin and Michelle are a problem. I need to break that up. He's using her for game.
But do you think he really thought you were using her or do you think he like, do you know because yeah, because I don't mean yeah, obviously you're not. So yeah, it.
Would be it would be a really, really long play. It would be an aggressively long play.
At this point, you're aiming for season fifty dev we get we're onto you. You're mastermind in that way.
I am, you know, just really really stretching this out. No, so he may have genuinely thought that. I what I believe is that obviously Michelle has been in some sitch situations where that was the case. We saw it happen with Callum on thirty nine, and then they played USA
two together. And Me and Michelle had had kind of a relationship in the past where it was unclear to me the feelings that she had to me and had for me, And so I was recently single and kind of like, would you meet up when we were in the same city and we would have long phone calls or whatever. But I was not under the impression that she felt the way that she did about me. So she goes on USA too, I guess, and kind of confides in Johnny about how she's not really happy with
our relationship. So he does have some insider information. But what I believe that he did, knowing the information about thirty nine, and this is a really uncool thing to do, is he used a point of vulnerability against her to
attempt to drive a wedge between our relationship. By saying, this is something that has happened to you before, you looked foolish, this is something that is happening again now, knowing that the easiest way to manipulate somebody is to use a vulnerability against them, and in my opinion, I
would never do that to a friend. The other point that I'd like to make is by saying that I'm doing that knowing that this had already happened to somebody else, You're either lying outright or you think I am a complete scumbag. Yeah, and at this point we are not. We're friendly. I don't know if you would consider me to be a friend, but like if I'm going to your gym to do an event for you, or at.
Least well at least friendly, something right.
So you can't think that I'm an absolute scumbag. So the only other available option there is that you are using something that somebody has confided in you against them
for or game. So now it's he said, she said, But in my opinion, knowing he knows, I'm not a bad person, So assuming that I would do that to a good to a close friend of mine and Michelle, to manipulate her the same way somebody did, and I watched her have to deal with that, and I watched how difficult it was for her to then put my insert myself in that role in to do it to
her again would mean I am a horrible person. Yeah, So to answer your question, it's a lengthy answer, but no, I don't think he thought I was using her for game. I thought he was trying to use a vulnerability of hers to manipulate her.
And and I appreciate you sharing that and not to get all up in your relationship business, but obviously I have a question as a matchmaker, really quick, what was you said that before you weren't sure that Michelle had these like the feeling she had towards you, and watching it blossom how you guys have been handling things now has been really lovely. I saw her the other day and we were talking about it. It's just really beautiful.
What was the thing? It's interesting also because you're so perceptive, and I think this highlight sometimes the way people think differently. What was the thing that finally made it click for you this season? Like, Oh, this really could be a thing, Like she you know, she has feeling to me, I have feelings for her, Like what was the switch? If before it never really like came on your radar?
She told me, Yeah, I have. I have noticed this, and I don't think it's a gender specific situation, but I've definitely noticed this in the past where people want to kind of play it cool and maybe among their friends they're saying how they actually feel, but with the person that they have those feelings for, they're not being completely up front exactly. And so I don't doubt that she thinks that she was like leaving a trail of
breadcrumbs that I would figure out. But as as much credit as I get for being one of the smart people on the show, I'm a moron, especially when it comes to relationships. So it's like I needed her to look me in the eye and tell me how she felt, because I was never going to just make an assumption that an absolute funny, like kind hearted rocket was into me.
Yeah, and so were you into her this whole time though, and you just kind of felt like, oh, I don't want to ruin the friendship or I don't want to.
I always had, like I always knew there was a potential there. And when I ended my last relationship, actually it ended. It was ended for me immediately after I got home from filming thirty eight, which was hilarious. I was like, finally won. And then I came back and immediately got dumped, and I was like, oh Jesus, it was like three months away, we're coming home to this.
The universe really does balance itself. But I said to myself, if I were to have another girlfriend at some point, it would be Michelle, because I knew how I felt about her, and I think it was kind of an unspoken thing for both of us, but we were pretty close. Yeah, and then obviously she moves well not moves on, but
she starts dating somebody else on the show. I had kind of started to see other people as well, and I guess it did take a Vietnamese castle to bring us to where we needed to go, But yeah, it was it was unclear for me, it was unclear how she felt about me until she said it directly to me.
Yeah, props to Michelle for putting it out there, for being vulnerable and just doing the dang thing. Yeah, it's good.
I really enjoy watching you guys this season and the other podcast episodes we've done. I always say that you are her and she is you. You guys are like the same person. And just watching you guys navigate through the season together, it was really really good to watch, really really good to watch. So yea, I'm rooted for you guys so much.
I appreciate that. I think, I mean, I would personally as a gambling man, I'll take the over on any line that's set for how long that relationship is going to go for, because I mean, I love her. She's great, so.
So sweet, Oh deb how far one has come. And when she was talking about you the other day when I start her, she was just glowing, like literally glowing, and.
I think that's the bronzer.
Well she was very bronze and glowing also, but her face was glowing in a way when she started talking about you, And so so happy to see where this goes and so happy that you guys have taken this journey together. Now let's get into a little bit more of this journey, starting with the actual challenge. Right, So, you're good at math, we know you're good at puzzles, and you're a good strategist. What was your strategy for this particular game?
So there wasn't a ton of strategy there. It was like we knew we had less people. So the way that it worked out is based on the the equations that you solve. Everybody on your team has to get two pegs before anyone can get three or four. So at this point it's just with Avery having left in the last episode, we only have five players, so we know where our target goal is going to be, somewhere around that twelve thirteen to fourteen mark. And no shade at Naya. She will be the first to admit this.
We knew as soon as the rules were explained this was not going to be her game. She said it flat out, I don't have grip strength. I'm afraid of heights. I don't want to be hanging up there. So we kind of knew, all right, Naya's going to get two. Toy's tory is on the chopping block, so we want to give her the best opportunity she can have. Jordan's great, so we're going to kind of spread them out between Jordan, Tory,
and myself. So our strategy was really focus on getting It doesn't matter how many we get as so long as we eclipse twelve, thirteen or fourteen and give two people on our chance, a good two people on our team a good shot. In retrospect, I guess it would have been I guess we could have solved more equations, but that just I don't I just don't think that wasn't our game. No shaite at Jordan, but he's got, you know, one hand, Corey's two hundred and thirty five pounds.
I don't think I'm particularly known for my grip strength. So, like, you go right down the list, and it was like some some challenges are built for you as a as an era and some aren't. In this one just wasn't you.
Know when you're watching Rachel right, because of course we don't know the times in that moment, how long did it seem like she had been up there?
Oh it was a wht. We we knew about halfway through Rachel's round that she won. Really like we were going to hold on as long as everyone was going to hold on as long as they could. But again, you go down the list of people that could you know, beat her, Theo's not winning, that Josh isn't winning, that's Kyleon's not winning, that Olivia's not winning. That like Casey and Michelle had a shot, Jenny had a shot, but Jenny has no motivation to win. And it was just
like there was only a couple people. I thought, you know, maybe Tory had a chance. Neiamiyah was a sleeper. I didn't think he.
Had that Andy and he even shook one hand off, like if you saw that, he like relaxed one hand for a minute. My goodness.
Yeah, a very impressive performance. And again, in hindsight, if three or four lost with Rachel having one, I know that we did this whole pretend to be on the fence thing. She was salivating, salivating. There was never a chance that she was not going to save Ryan and Laurel. There was never a chance that she wasn't going to take that pie in the sky matchup so she can say all she wants. She was open to hearing people
out there. There was nothing that could have derailed that with the exception, and we touched on this later in the episode of potentially Josh saying this will be a kill shot for our alliance. That was the only chance we had was that. I think at that point Josh was Rachel's number one, so he could have said, listen, this is gonna really be an absolute detriment to me moving forward. If you take this shot, it's going to mean that you don't have my best interest in mind.
I have a question as far as the pigs when you're up there, what were the rules, Devin, Because there was a point when Casey was up there by herself, right and there were all of these pegs from everyone else who fail? Was she not allowed to steal other people's? Could she not be on theirs?
No? So you had only your pegs that were assigned to you, So the first ones you touched were yours for the whole challenge. If people dropped, you couldn't switch an arm over or use theirs. And that was that was clear. That wasn't like it's not like anyone was confused about that. It was it was very clear.
Okay, how clear were the rules? Since Josh thought he could stand on the legs you know, yeah, I mean.
Josh didn't think he could, but the option was fall or see if I can get away with it.
So yeah, it's so hilarious. Do you so back to the point you were making around the alliance and Rachel salivating right to target the vacation alliance and Josh potentially coming in to save you. Two questions about that one.
Well, not to save me, not save you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't mean that specifically, but yeah, like to make a different decision in her vote and who she's sent in. Do you feel like that Josh's sort of loyalty is even that strong and valuable because
we've seen what he's been doing. Like if you were Rachel, if you were in Rachel's position and Josh is threatening, like you're breaking our alliance, do you feel like you would see that alliance is valuable because Josh is been is proven this season not to be helpful with most of the alliances he's in, So like, do you think
that really would have made a difference. I guess if he had led that case to Rachel and said, Okay, well my alliance with you is done if you go for you know, make that choice.
Unfortunately, We'll never know because that's not what happened. So I know this, it couldn't have hurt.
Do you think it was worth a try.
I think it was absolutely worth a try. And in doing that, it was a little too late in the game to have called him out, actually, because everything had already transpired. But I tried to have conversations with josh periodically throughout the game. When Jenny first nominated me, she had come to Josh and she had asked, you know, do you have an opinion on who I should pick as a target? Devn R Cory, And he admitted to saying this. He said, you know, you have to do
what you have to do. I'm essentially indifferent. So that was like strike one right, and he apologized for that. He said, I have to take the yel on this one. I, you know, am trying to keep my hands clean. And he essentially said to all of us. We had a sit down with the Vacation Alliance, with Tory, with Casey, with Joshua myself, and we all agreed the only way this thing's going to work because at this point people
had started to try to poison the well. There was a Vacation Alliance smear campaign going on, and the only way to maneuver through a game with such a public alliance, in my opinion, is to form a unified beachfront that says, come at one of us, you're dead.
To the rest of us.
Yeah, and I really, truly I always have played that way, if I'm really truly riding with you, which again everyone always says, Devin makes all these deals. He does this, he does expiring deals. I do expiring deals because I don't want to have to lie to someone later.
I'm very smart. It's actually very respectful. We talked about that, and you not making that deal with Nehemiah that time by was beautifully done. I thought so well played and fair. And I think the way you play seems to be the thing that Josh needs to learn, because that's how
Josh gets themselves in trouble. And I actually think on a less it's a slightly different level because she has so many enemies, you know, But I think I feel like we see Leep Laurel plays the same way, where sometimes there's expiring deals, sometimes there's no I won't take a deal sometimes, but I feel like if someone makes a deal with you, whether they're in the vacation alliance,
or they're in something else. What's cool about it is I would take your word to the bank, right, like I would trust Like yep, Devin said he's going to be I'm going to do this. It is what it is.
Yeah, I've played the game nine times. No one can, ever, regardless of the smear campaigns that go around, regardless of people that are intimidated by my style of gameplay attempting to discredit this or credit me as a manipulator, you can point. No one can point to a single moment in any of these games. And I encourage someone to find one. Find one example of when I told somebody that I would do something and then I didn't do it. One example. Go back to Double Agents. We had blind voting.
Every every time we sat together, I would say here's what I'm voting for. Then I would go in a room where no one else even was and I would make that vote. M hm. So I don't. It's just I have no interest in lying in the game because if I win, I want to feel good about it.
Right, and we see what happens. Look at John like Josh's beloved, but he gets in trouble every season now like it's literally every season because he says yes or says okay, or doesn't say no, doesn't set boundaries, and then ends up with a slew of io use that he can't cash.
So let me say yeah, let me say this. Know, Josh is my baby, right so I'm a big beside where we So let me let me just say this now. Granted Josh's I owe yous and deals and everything. They may not be working for the alliance members and everything else, but they're working.
For him, correct, But they are working for him.
But I understand, I understand that we are in a space now where it's like you know, a team, team, team, and you gotta support your allies. You gotta do this, you gotta do that. The teams are.
Gone, right, So the only the only rebuttal I have to that is that if you are going to play a game that works for you and you're in, and you're also gonna say that you are honorable and you keep your word, then you have to pick a side, right Like, if you can't try to convince us that you're playing the game for us when you're playing the game for yourself, it either makes you a liar, which could that works for people? It can't. But but you're.
A liar, okay, So I think that's okay. So I think that's the key point. Was there a point where Josh was coming to you guys saying, Oh, because I have a connection with such and such, I can help you.
It was absolutely made abundantly clear in the in our four persons sit down that Josh's loyalties allegedly lied with us and that we were going to be his priority moving forward. As we've seen this play out, that is not the case. I love Josh. I think Josh is awesome. Yeah, and I've noticed this actually about Survivor and Big Brother. I'd never actually, this is a bit of a tangent, but I'll keep it quick. I'd never watched one episode of Survivor, and I was at Michelle's parents house, and
I watched the episode that she won in. And what Michelle had to do in that last episode was convince everybody that was going to vote that it didn't happen by accident and that she was actively manipulating them throughout the game. In Survivor and in Big Brother, the thing that Josh is doing is celebrated in order to get
the votes. People need to know that you manipulated them, that you took the shot, that you lied, that you did this, because everyone's doing it right, and so the hardest part of the challenge is that it's a recurring game. It happens over and over and over again. The di Vivor or a Big Brother. I think it's celebrated because you're not very likely you're never going to play again, so it's easy to kind of burn those relationships. Now.
Obviously there's some people who are fortunate enough to play it two, three times, four times maybe, but you're not playing it. You're not playing it fifteen times, right, So that's just a difference in game style that I've noticed. It's easier for players from Big Brother and players from Survivor to say that they're going to do something and then go back on that, and they are so good. Every one of them that I've met is so good that plays this way at repatching those things after they happen.
And so I think Josh is just conditioned to think, Okay, this is what's best for me now, and I'm gonna be able to get out of this.
Yeah.
Yeah, But what you're saying is because it is a reoccurring game, he's like creating a staple on it.
I think so. And I think what Josh is going to have to do moving forward if he plays again, is pick his horses and ride with him till the very end. Because even in this even in this game, he's now righting wrongs that he made from USA two with Johnny. Yeah, so his game is always going to be Now he feels probably like he owes Casey. He might feel a little bit like he owes me.
He might.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And if you're always playing catch up, it may work for Josh to move, you know, into the halfway point, maybe get towards the end. It's going to be very, very difficult to win this game the way that he's played it, especially because with his skill set it's going to be difficult anyways, and now with the reputation that he has, it's gonna be damn
near impossible. And I hate to say that because I'd love to see Josh win, But if he doesn't massively shift his approach to the game, he's going to have played this game for you know, close to a decade at some point and never have never have won.
Oh Josh, let's take a quick break, but don't worry, We'll be right back after this.
Okay, let's get.
Back to the show.
Now, let's go into this elimination. I know we touched on it.
I'm happy to just breeze by that.
If so, the strategy walk us through initially what your strategy was, just so everyone members because you kind of explained it on the episode, but like, what exactly was your initial strategy?
Dude, there was no strategy. I was so rattled. I'm gonna be honest with you. It the I've never really been like, my head's always been in the game one hundred percent. And I've said this so many times, and this is absolutely not an excuse. I got my ass kicked fair and square. Kylon was the better man that night at that elimination. There is absolutely no excuse. My head was in so many different places. I literally remember walking into the arena and seeing the chords and being like,
this is a physical representation of my brain. And I've been trying to untangle it for like six weeks at this point. And if you think I was untangling those slowly, you should have seen the mental chords that were going on because they were a rat's nest and I just I can't even say I had a strategy because the horn blew and I just completely shit the bed. Now, with that being said, I still probably beat seventy percent
of the people that are standing on that stage. So it's easy for them to say to look down at it and say, oh, it was a blowout. That elimination is tailor built for Kyland. He's cool, complexted, he's smart, he's got you know, gas. It was surprisingly tiring, So it was that was worst case matchup for that elimination, and on top of it, I was head in the clouds. So again, at all credit to him, absolutely beat me. I was not in the right mental place to put
my best effort forward. It just I beat myself in that. I beat that version of myself in that. Yeah, one hundred percent of the time.
Yeah, if you don't mind sharing what was going on in here, because when we watch you again, we're used to seeing you sort of being you're called the mastermind of the challenge. You're just kind of like playing chess when people are playing checkers. What was going through your head that had you kind of sew out of it, or that you were struggling to untangle for you know, those six weeks, if you don't mind sharing.
Of course, it's so I don't do super well in a large team environment. Too many cooks make a shitty soup. And I firmly believe that, and especially that the way the game was designed, it lent itself to a lot of insecurities, and it lent itself to kind of like a clean slate because people were getting a break from even being able to be nominated, so for at least two weeks, often people would just check out. So there was no like playing chess because half the people were
on the on the bench, including myself. So it was just it was that was difficult. Playing the game for somebody else that you care about is very difficult. I don't care what anybody says. I've gone on records saying if you want to win, do not get in a relationship. I wanted to win, of course, but I wanted to I wanted my cake and I wanted to eat it too.
If you want the best chance at winning, don't fall in love, simple as that, and especially don't fall in love in a game that lends itself to paranoia and insecurities.
Absolutely, and you guys are on different teams.
Yeah, it was. I mean, Michelle says it all the way through. She's in like a constant struggle between doing what's best for her, doing what's best for me, and doing what's best for her air and I'm in that same struggle, but with more. And this wasn't just bananas. Niamiah was taking pop shots. Look at all of Corey's interviews. Josh is playing the way that Josh is playing. Jordan
had insecurities about me. Kyland needed a full blown convincing that I was even like a person that told the truth, like I was back against the wall, and I know exactly why that is. People are intimidated. They can say that they aren't. People are intimidated by skill sets that they do not possess. And the easiest way to discredit a skill set that you don't possess is to immediately
write them off as somebody that's dishonest. So that was happening from all angles the entire game, and honestly, at some point, I just I just didn't care enough to defend myself. Normally, I'd be calling people out publicly, I'd be making them bring receipts. I would. I just didn't care. I was just in bed. I was having fun, you know, And if you want to win this game, you can have fun, but you better be dialed. And I wasn't dialed.
Because Jordan made this statement it said you were overthinking the elimination. Oh no, I was under I was.
He's completely wrong, I was. I was not thinking about it. Yeah, literally at all. There was so many other things on my mind in that moment. And honestly, it was an environment that was it was. It was tough. I get it. It's the challenge. It's difficult. This was the most difficult one I've been a part of. And I actually think as we see the people, well not all of them, but a lot of the people who had success in this game were those that did total madness because they
were like calloused. So you match that with being in love pretty much, having the a third of the house running a smear campaign about you being valued or looked at as a major threat, and it's a recipe to get your ass kicked in elimination. And that's exactly what happened.
Playing the game with someone you love. In expressing how differ what it was for both of you. Do you think you would ever do another season with Michelle? Oh?
Well yeah, now it's a completely different situation. Right, So, like, if we were to go and play again together, there would be no question mark on whose side either one of us fell on gotcha?
Gotcha? Gotcha?
Or we would or if we maybe we wouldn't want to play together. Maybe we would say you want to know what we can be in a relationship and play two separate games, but there would be much more communication
because of the way that our relationship has progressed. So I obviously would never want to play against her, right, But if she was like, hey, listen, this is where I really want to give myself the best shot at winning this one, and I think I have to go this direction, and that meant that we weren't going to I would never, you know, bring this to the table. But I don't think she would either. But hypothetically, if she did, I'd say, okay, cool, this is kind of fun.
Like we played board games against each other all the time, right, does.
She play against the Walker Mulligans and how she want?
Michelle's very very good at games. Yeah, she's very good. She hasn't met the majority of my family yet, so we haven't had a game night. But honestly, I don't wish that upon her because that is never one time ended well.
I mean, she was the godfather of last season though she was I mean, she was making moves and getting things done, and I always tell her that's a compliment, not an insult by any means. I feel like she might be a worthy opponent of the of the Walker. Mulgan. You have to keep us posted dev if that game night occurs, because I feel like, you know, she could take people.
Yeah, the thing is, if she just was quiet for the first twenty minutes, all of us would immediately either self sabotage or gang up on each other and be like, Okay, it's okay if she wins, because none of us win, it'd be a good position for her to be in.
Actually, so you had the love of your life, Michelle. You have to leave her, but you also have to leave your right of day, your ace boomcool, your main apple scrapple, which was Tory right, And so what do you hope Toy does when she goes back into the house.
You know, I've never ever heard anyone else use that saying. But I actually have a photo of Tory and underneath it it says my main apple scrapple. Oh really, no, no, no, I I don't I've never heard. Oh wow, I've never heard that one before. I love it though. I maybe maybe I'll maybe I'll put that nametag under there. Yeah, it was. I was so excited for her to win. It's obviously, and I want to just say this too. I do not blame anybody. It seems like they all like,
really dislike me for some reason. Laurel has some things to say, Rachel has some things to say. Obviously, Johnny's not a fan. A lot of the people. Really, I feel like they really didn't like me. I'm not entirely What did you do? Dev What do I existed? I truly existed as I always do. And it was they just felt, I truly believe they felt intimidated, and they
felt like they were on the outs. And it's easy when the snowball starts to gain momentum to just hop on the train, which is why I usually, when I have the energy to care enough, will extinguish the flame before it can catch any more fuel. I just didn't have the I didn't have it in me this season, but I hope Toy wins it. Obviously. You know, I'm in Go Tori or go Michelle mode. We haven't played a Challenge season without each other in a long time. Thirty seven we go all the way to the end,
thirty eight we win it. Forty we're here. She played USA two without me, but that's obviously kind of a different game. So it's been a while for either of us on the flagship without the other one there. Yeah, and I'll just you know, no spoilers, but that that rider Die bond runs pretty.
Deep, and I've got a feeling that my presence is going to continue to be felt in this game long after I'm gone.
Basically, you're gonna recavoc from the other side. What it sounds like, dev The last time you were here on the podcast where we got to interview you, you shared some interesting strategies around preparing for this game. Has there been anything else that you've added since we've spoken to you to your arsenal of how you train for the challenge.
I mean, if the shoe fits, wear it right. So I don't think that there's anything that I've really added to my repertoire, my training repertoire physically, I think mentally going into another one, what I would need to do is really get back to my core of kind of finding a nice not publicly. I hate when fucking people publicly meditate. I hate it. I'm like, okay, we get it, your medica, But like, uh, I think you. I think that is a really undervalued skill set in this game,
is to be able to shut your brain off. And so if I were to go back into this thing, and now, trust me, there's I've always had a list of people I could I could go against. I am so dangerous when people have wronged me because I get to completely take you off the list. Believe it or not, I'm a pretty compassionate person. I don't like going after people. It's very difficult for me to go after someone who's
never done anything wrong for me. Watching this season back, oh my god, I don't have enough pockets to hold all the grudges. I don't. It is. I mean, I can close my eyes and throw a dart at the board. So the motivation that I potentially lacked going into forty because I, you know, coming off a win, getting that, getting that kind of scratching that itch, proving people wrong. This was exactly what I needed to reignite my passion for airying my enemies and mark my words, when you
see me back, and I will be back. I do not forget, and I will be prepared to recavoc.
Not you making threats and promises. Did you hear that podcast?
Did you hear that?
People record it? Play it over and over and over again, screen grabb it. Just know that if you have wronged me in this season and we haven't had a conversation about forgiveness, which there have been none of so far, you're getting got.
Josh, pick up the pile, Josh, Josh, run on the phone. Dev I'm guessing that doesn't include Derek Ce because we saw that birthday present he gave you that's floating around now on Twitter of him doing a lap dance base he's like pee popping on a handstand but over you, which is very impressive from a balance standpoint. But I'm guessing that he's not on your your hit list because that was one hell of a gift.
Derek has lifetime immunity because of that party. He really does, He truly does, Derek. You can do anything you want. You're You're all the way in. And Ryan too. The thing is like that those two were so fun. They're so and what pisces me off is that you want to talk about an undervalued skill set and and everyone's saying neami and bananas. They're carrying the team. They're carrying the team. I take Derek over either of them in
a final any day of the week. I don't think that Ryan has trained enough to be there yet, but he has it, he has the ability to be there. I'm on you right now. Derek is one of the most well rounded, impressive competitors I've ever played the game with, and they and the upside down face is just helping his case.
It does just help his g Derek is, you know, fierce. I almost ran a final with him, you know, many years ago now in Bawl the seasons, and he and John Ay had pretty much gotten down to two players, but they were kicking butt. Like Derek is not someone people do sleep on him, which also might be a bit of a superpower in a way. But he I
agree with you that he is. You know, he's he's low key a force to be reckoned with, and even just from the balance alone, because how many of us can do a handstand on a couch not fall over on top of someone and TOWERK, I don't. I mean, I've been delivered. Yeah, that means they could back in the day.
They also they also missed the number one thing that happened in the whole season, which was Out of Barbecue, where Derek's alter ego is Casey Diaz, And there was a song. I forget what song came on, but I think it was like it was like firework or something like that, and Derek did a full performance which now
watch for this when they show the pool. There were like these big bird cages kind of all around the property, and so Derek grabs both hands behind his head, grabs the bird cage bars, inverts himself and while he's inverting himself, gets his head stuck in the cage. Oh now he's fully inverted, dancing to firework with his head stuck in the bird cage. It was the best thing I've ever seen on a lectric. We had to like pull the bars apart so he could get his.
Oh oh my gosh, insane. That that's so good. I hope they please play that on air. Footage. Please please please, that is hilarious. All right, dev If you've been listening to the podcast this season, you know that we're doing a little thing because the eras kind of remind us of like, you know, high school vibes. We're doing superlatives. Did you have superlatives when you were in school? You know?
Yeah? And I will give you one guess as to the one that I want.
Ooh, day, you go first, But he thinks, oh, say this, it's a classic. Most likely to be a politician.
I could see that.
No, I would never be a politician.
Gross most likely to be on a reality show class clown.
I was gonna say that. I was gonna say.
That class clown. Yep, and I really was a clown. I think I kind of still am.
Yeah, I feel like you're a serious clown, though some like there's like a split because you're not just You're not like just blatantly goofy, you know what I mean?
No, I do get mad. Clowns don't really get mad. I guess.
I think it's a certain type of person to understand your humor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's definitely true, like a maybe a smart person.
Yeah, I agree. I think that's true. Day we never asked you. Were you a most likely too in school?
Yeah? What most likely most likely to end up on television? For sure? Really?
Oh that's funny.
Yeah.
So we like to do superlatives for each team this season, so we want to hear what you would say about each era. Let's start backwards this time with Ara four. So in your opinion, and it can be anything, Era four is most likely to what.
Era four is? Air four is most likely to make a hollow deal.
Mmmm? Interesting, Okay, okay, what about three?
Air three is most likely to be best looking?
I cannot.
You know what Era two ahead?
It's true? Uh, Era two is most likely to have really good exotic dancers.
Fair. I mean we've seen it and that's fair.
Yeah. And Era one is hm hmmm, I mean there's so much low hanging fruit here. But I'm going to go a different route and just go most likely to accept victory or defeat with Grace and I agree, they really were they really were with with I guess the exception of Tina.
But we do love funny, so freaking funny. That's so true. It's been so great having you d. This is the Triple D Podcast today with.
That's right, and honestly, I've put on a few pounds. I'm probably chasing that cup size right now.
Well, if you need to borrow Brock, just give me a call. I can loan you one. For those who want to stand in the note on what you've got going on, or who want to see Okay, wait, what did we call it again? There was dev Shell and then there was.
Mach Yeah, we've married it down to two. One of them is dev Shell, the other one is miss Chevin.
We need you guys to vote. We should put up a poll on Twitter, or you guys just tweet us which ones you like better, dev Shell or michevn. But for those who want to just follow along with you guys or support you, where can they find you? In socials?
I make a pretty pretty regular appearances on Michelle's story, so I would probably just go there. I think she is at mish fits.
Look at him hyping up his level even Okay, can I can I come to the wedding? Is all I'm asking. I know he's aways, but I'm just gonna put it out there.
You gotta. I think we got to see how the rest of this season unfolds while I'm gone, before we start hearing those those those wedding bells are ringing.
I don't know, I'm already I'm already hearing a ding and a dung.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna put my money and say she she was on our best behavior.
Oh yeah, of course, No, I'm not worried about that. I'm not worried about that at all. She's She's truly the best. And yeah, I mean if if there ever is a wedding, it'll be a ten thousand person wedding. So everyone's invited. Look under you I'm the Oprah Winfrey of wedding invitations. Look under your chair. You've got an invite.
Deal and deal. So good. Thank you for joining us. Dev it's been it's always a pleasure watching you and just watching kind of how you've grown over the seasons, and hated to see you go this time, but excited to see you come back where you feel like you're fully invigorated and ready to kick butt in the game.
If you had to leave a message to your girls, I know the season's already done filming, but if you had to leave a little message to your girls talking about Tory and Michelle, what would you say to them right now?
I mean, it's the same thing that I tell everybody all the time. Measure twice, cut once, pick your horses, rock with them till the end, and when this thing, you know, plays out, make sure that win or lose, you can go back and be proud of the way you play the game.
Yeah.
Love that good stuff. Yeah, Deev, thank you so much. It's been so fun.
It has been fun. I appreciate you guys for having me shout out to the Official Challenge Podcast, all the producers and of course the two of you, and also to Anissa and Tory. The four of you carry the flame with just such a flawless I'm want to say grace. And the way you guys can interchange and keep the same different energies and vibes, but like the same high
level of professionalism is very cool to watch. So congratulations stuff everyone involved on this podcast for having a really cool listen and a very fun pod.
Love you. That's so sweet. He brought me Margarita's at the aftermath. I don't know if Yeah, you never know.
You never know. And truly when I give a compliment, you know it's real. Yeah, so you guys can take that one to the bank, because if it sucked, I would tell you.
Appreciate that so much. To deb well, obviously you're welcome anytime. So happy that you're part of the Challenge family and rooting for your girls. I mean, obviously we can't show favoritism, but like you know, we I love Michelle and Tory, so it'll be fun to see how this plays out.
I can show favoritism and go tourshell.
There you go, so that one is locked in.
That is locked in. Thanks for having me, guys, I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Well, there you have it. We got to talk to the man, Devin Walker Mulligan and Day. How did it feel to be sandwiched between two devns?
It was absolutely amazing. I would do it anytime, Devin, Yes, ma'am. While we're loving what we can find on the podcast, how do we love? Where we can find you on the socials of the media's.
Well, you can always go to my website, devinsimone dot com. That's Devin with a Y Simone with an I. You can see some socials there. I'm pretty active on Instagram that's Devin Simone. I'm on TikTok as well. Devin Simone comment say hi Twitter. Also, we want to know your vote for dev Shell or miss Chevin Sos. Tweet us and let us know what your thoughts are so we can come back and let you know the tally. Yeah, I'm also on Snapchat occasionally. Devinsmon's all the same spelling
made it super simple. But come say hi and hang because I always love to see you and in the Amazon lives that I do, those are always fun too. What about you day? Where can people find you?
The people can find me right here on the podcast, but you can also find me on all all of the socials of the media's at Davon Diane Underscore. That's Davion Diane Underscore. As always. Thanks you guys so much for joining us for another episode of MTV's Official Challenge podcast, and tell all your fellow Challenge fans to listen and make sure to leave us a five star review on Apple and Spotify, and of.
Course, join us every Thursday to hear brand new episodes of MTV's Official Challenge Podcast, available wherever you can get your podcasts. It's a bad week to.
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