A New Era w/ Ryan Kehoe

Hello everyone.

I'm Devin Simone and I'm Davon Rogers and this is MTV's official Challenge podcast, back with another episode. It looked hot.

Why was it so hot?

Day?

Good God?

I don't know, but it almost took Michelle on up out of here. Devin was almost single.

I know. I'm surprised they didn't have the ghost of Devon's past popping then, you know how they had them all episode like popping in. I'm surprised she didn't have delusions.

That he was there with hers, but you know who was there with her, Olivia, and their little friendship is just so cute to me. It's like watching them in the back of that the ambulance truck. It was just so cute to me. And I was like, Okay, now you better be there and encourage your friend to stick it out because my girls ready to go home.

Okay, yeah, yeah, which was interesting to hear Michelle say like as a whole one. When she was like, oh, I think people see me as the weakest player here. I'm like, girl, and what world? And then too, when she's like, now that's Devin gone, My why is gone or a lot of my why is gone? I also was surprised by that just because she's so We've said this a million times such as competitible. Yeah, and she's

Not with the heat, not with the layer of that heat, because we were there, we experienced it, Devin, it hot, it was hot. It's hot, so I can only imagine how it was the longer that they were there. So no, not with that heat, all bets are off.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Were you surprised to see Jordan and Tory come out on top?

No, like it's Jordan and Tory. Absolutely not. I did think it was so cute though, you know how they turned around and fists pumped each other. I don't know them as that duo is terrifying because they are so powerful. Like that's absolutely And I wonder if because everyone right now is so focused on Johnny, but shouldn't you kind of be paying attention to that, Like, yeah, that's a little scary. Why aren't we looking at that?

Dad?

Dynamic is super powerful and I love seeing them come

Powerhouse.

That is a superpowerhouse. So Ryan Michelle were the losers this time. Ryan did the puzzle with no backwards Yeah. Completely, you couldn't see anything on the puzzle, So I don't know how that works. And then the shell poor thing thought she was in Canada. I don't know, she just wasn't, which is not her fault because heat exhostion is a real thing, so it is I mean, not her fault

It seems it gives very much a big brother little sister because even when he walked in and he kind of like pushed her head to the side, I was like, okay, now hold on, slow down, right, and then like them the exchange of going back and forth and then him, I wish you would like, I'm not gonna lie. That was one of my favorite moments. Yeah, because I like that when he was like, I wish you, I wish you will give me a reason.

You're gonna need to teach him though, how to give the delivery on that day. I felt like he was reading. He had rehearsed it a couple of times, and it came out, but it came out with the conviction of a Tyler Perry movie, not necessarily the conviction of like, you know, like if you had said it or something, I'm big brother, so I need you to work on

He's been here for since nineteen oh two, girl, okay.

Right before electricity, Like, I you know, so yeah, and I know apparently we've learned from Devin. There was talks of Banana sort of saying kind of pulling a Tony a little bit right, which is like, yeah, I may not be here, I may not be here, I may not want.

To be here.

But you think it was strategy though, yes, because well, well I'll say this whether or not it's strategy or instinct, because there is still this button, the chat and compressed where when you're in that competitive mindset or zone or watching the competition, for some of us, it is still hard to like turn that off, you know. So like you can say, like most of the times when I get a call, I'm not gonna lie. I answer it, and there's at least one moment that I think about it.

Just And who knows, maybe even if that was his mindset, maybe he needed this elimination to get his head back in the.

Game, right to Mario Kart Mario Karki also Nea Maia casually world records in Mario, like wait, what.

I don't even know that that was a thing?

No, And can we backcheck that, like where's the Guinness Book? Can somebody tweet us or dms please and let us know the fact checks on that, because it's both impressive but also you know, absolutely crazy. So then we get to the arguably the only elimination and challenge history that I would want to compete in, And is this killer Quads. It looks so fun, it looks so doable, maybe not to Ryan but in general, and I too live in

That was crazy.

Yes, that was an episode I thought that I did not expect.

I didn't. Well, he did say he was going to go after Nayat, he did Riet out of his mouth, so that wasn't a shocker. But coming with the Michelle well gay not not really because this is still about Devon, right, so maybe.

Though, remember they were friends, because that whole point allegedly of when he was warning Michelle about Devon.

Was because Michelle right right, just to turn around and not that this game is insane.

I want to know what's in the water in that house. I want to Devin, if we ever go back, you better never do me like that. I've already told you this I have. Do you know how many years have taken me. You guys can get Davon to commit that she will never do that to me. This girl's like Fort Knox when it comes to trusting people. I feel like I find achieved my highest level of being in self in life, that Devon officially trusts me and that we're like she made friends. It is such an honor.

Okay? Perfect? So my gold stars for this episode are Jordan and Rachel. I want to get my gold stars to Jordan because he's just powerhouse, like across the board, like just watching him in action every single season he does there's no quit, there's just fight. That's that's all he knows. All he knows is how to go. So watching him in this challenge, he did so good and

All right, I am going to uh start with my gold Star nominees. By the way, I see a lot of you were someone said that I had a hot take. Someone on Twitter messaged me and said I had a hot take about Josh in last week's episode, which is interesting hot take. But I appreciate so many of you coming to Josh's defense, and I also appreciate the discourse. So thank the polite discourse. I appreciate that. So for

It's still very present, it's still.

Very much running it. I mean, that's almost as good as winning. Doesn't pay as well, but it is almost as good as winning. And uh so, yeah, I think I'm gonna have to give my gold star to the editors and Devon on this one because it's very Yeah, that's just really as impressive as hell. Now for timeouts, I'm gonna have to say it's Ryan, Ryan, Ryan, we

So I love that they caught when it clicked for him, he was like, oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was just so good. It's so good.

Yeah.

It's interesting that Ryan is on both of our timeouts this week. But the beautiful thing about that is he's here to clear it up.

We give people a chance. You know, it doesn't mean that our opinions will change by the interview, but we do in fact give people a chance, so we definitely want to hear him out. I just also have to give a shout out to long Live Murr and one Quante on Twitter. Appreciate you guys and all the Challenge love so funny. And also shout out to Katie Casey, who I met over the weekend, who also is a big Challenge fan. She's watched every season, So shout out to Katie. It was fun hanging with you and all

Oh.

He has some really inspirational things to say and also some messing things to say, So definitely don't go anywhere because when we come back, we will be talking to Mario Kart Junior himself Ryan right after this.

All right, Challenge fans, we have arguably one of the most fun but also one of the mauthiest Challenge cast members this season on the podcast with us today. He may not be the best driver, but darn it, he's good at everything else.

Please give it up for Ryan.

Hey, Ryan, what's up, ladies?

How you doing doing well? How are you doing? Is the question?

Oh, that was hard to watch back. It was hard in the moment, but that was hard to watch back.

What about It was the hardest part for you to watch well?

It truly the most depressing to be the third man finishing after giving two of my balls to Laurel, who was already you know, you already had stuff going on there. So to put my two first balls in her canisters set the.

Tone for like, okay, you gotta make that doing with.

Your bay What exactly what were you doing with your balls? What was Banana doing with your balls?

Like you know, I know my balls had a minded their own, So it just the way that they randomly selected us.

Laurel and I were right next to each other. So when I sprinted on that first run.

I wasn't It was so hot out and we were in the sun for so long before we started competing.

I was just running in a general direction.

I didn't look at the sign that said Laurel or Ryan.

I just saw a canister and I.

Put the balls in, and as they're dropping down, I see Laurel's name on the top, and I'm like no.

Like, really, what are the odds?

Like with all of the chaos that her and I had that season, it was kind of poetic justice for her, But it definitely it definitely lit a fire up my butt to go even harder.

And you mentioned that, like you guys stood out in the heat for a while also before you even started running. Can you tell us a little bit about the conditions, like how hot it was, how long you guys had to kind of get ready before running, because obviously we see it impact all of you, and we saw how it almost took out Michelle.

Yeah, it is the Sahara in Vietnam on the regular, and you know how long it takes for the camera setup and you're just even under an umbrella, like you're waiting.

For a good hour or two. Wow. So I honestly just felt like I was running in hell.

It helped to pass people to like just kept lapping THEO, who is like a triathlete olympian to the max. So the fact that I wasted my first by giving Laurel my two balls, and then I continued to beat THEO, and then when I finished finished, I beat Rachel, who didn't give any of her balls to anyone else, like I felt good about my you know, my comeback, You're endurance?

Is that a lot of time? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I want to touch on this because and we're definitely going to get into the episode, but her name keeps coming up and we have to go ahead and talk about this. What is going on with.

You and Laurel.

I'll try to keep it like short for everyone's attentions, fan because the fact is Laurel and I were fast friends. We had competed on Fresh Meat two together. We were in the same alliance. That was fifteen years ago. That was her first challenge and that was actually my last Flagship was Laurel's first season. So we reconnected on All Stars for had a lot of fun on All Stars for We're definitely in the same alliance. I was still

Know, an ear to her.

But things just turned sour. She and I were friends outside of the show.

She stayed with me in New York. She had a set of keys to my apartment.

It was like that, and then anytime her and Nicole would get in a little tiff, she would come running back to Manhattan and stay with me. So inadvertently I became friends Cole because when they were good, they were really good, and I spent a lot of time with the two of them. But I also dipped out whenever they would get into their you know, lesbianic Titanic explosion fights. I would be like, I've literally just like walked out in the middle of their fight because I'm like, this

But I just kept getting roped into the drama.

And one particular instance, Laurel and I were visiting a Cole in Staten Island. Nicole went to work her Apple watch was charging. Laurel was like, oh, she left her Apple Watch. I'm gonna go on her phone and I'm like, not a good idea. She's like, come on, look at this. Read this with me, and I'm like, no, I don't do that. I don't go in people's personal things. I

This cheating villain.

Meanwhile Laurel was having her cake and eating it too, but you know, playing victim. So I just was seeing a lot of red flags. And it started to bleed into my real life in New York. And truly it came down to Laurel got tickets to the VMEs. She had keys to my apartment already. She asked me if she could stay with me to go see the VMAs. Not to ask me to go.

See the VMAs, but can I stay with you?

And I literally was out of work for five months because I broke my clasical so I had not been working. This was the first week I was back to work full time in production, and I was getting my puppy. That's Saturday. So I told her, honestly, this week is not good. I have a small, one bedroom apartment in New York, I said, any other week, but like I'm back to work, I'm getting a dog. And she took that no as if I, like, you know, killed her.

Puppy or something.

She just was not used to me creating boundaries and so me saying no to her translated to you are taking the cole's side in this breakup. She twisted it somehow, and that was when we fell out. Was when I said, no, you can't stay with me. It's not a good week. And that was the last time that we were like literally in communication until I saw her on forty.

WHOA, But then how did it get to a level of cause, you guys's clapbacks made Nini Lynch look like a baptistre on Twitter in particular, So how did it get to that level?

So honestly, like I gave her a bribe at the beginning of forty to just clear the air before we were on camera. We hadn't spoken in like six months. She was being like cordial with me vice versa. But we were in the hotel and I said, and I think we just have a conversation to clear the air for the past six months. Why we had a you know, why we stopped talking And she said, well, I don't have a problem, right, you have a problem clearly, but

And then watching the show back, I'm seeing.

That she is throwing challenges and like doing things that I don't do, and so I just wanted her.

It was just really painful to be on the same team as her.

When we started this episode with the eras disbanded and TJ announcing it was an individual game. How did you feel about that, Like, how did you feel that would affect you moving forward in this game.

I kind of loved it because I felt like.

I finally was freed of Johnny questioning my abilities or worrying about challenge being thrown on a day that I'm a target. You know, these fears were there because our era started on such a faulty foundation. There were so many cracks in the surfaces and so much distrust that it was really hard to compete as a team and celebrate as a team because I didn't buy well and I can't even loop my entire era.

I trusted every.

One of my teams, and I even trusted Johnny most of the time.

But Laurel was just honestly poison on our.

Team, and it just like saturated into everything that we did, like while competing. You know, It's just I just was excited to not be tied to anyone else and to be just competing for me. If I us up, I only have myself to blame, and I deal with the consequence of like having to go on an elimination and sucked.

You know.

It felt a little bit like in some of these episodes that people were underestimating you Ryan, and just like what you're fully capable of? Did you feel that way and coming into the show, had you prepared or trained or like, what had you done to kind of get ready to come into season forty?

I mean I did a complete overhaul of my life.

To be honest with you, I at the peak of the beginning of COVID of Bala Sequille Day, I found drink.

I was having the shapes like steps away.

From being categorized like Death's door kind of alcoholic.

So I stopped drinking. I stopped smoking cigarettes.

I also found out I was diabetic, like literally when I did my blood work for All Stars Too. I had been diabetic possibly for like two decades and didn't even know it. Wow, it wasn't from the drinking. It was like something that I acquired in my early twenties, but it was un notice because my numbers were high, like almost dangerously high, but I had no physical signs, so I literally caught it.

I mean, to be honest with you, this sounds really cheesy, but.

Like getting that blood work, finding out I was diabetic, and then going on All Stars Too, still like having a drinking problem, but secretly, all of those things really put that mirror up in my face and was like, who are you, Like you're gonna die. You're hiding this from production, You're hiding it from your friends and family back home. Like it forced me to like get real with myself getting a diagnosis like that diabetes is not

Yeah for me. We're so proud of you.

Yeah, we really are so.

Proud of you. Yeah, because it's a hard step to acknowledge and recognize it and then also to do something about it. So we're very very proud of you.

And to stick with you.

That's proud of your driving skills, though.

Dude, you'd think I was drunk relapsed right.

There, Ryan, Like, oh my gosh. First of all, though we're going out of order. But that was like such a fun elimination overall. How was it?

Like?

Was it fun? I mean, obviously we it was okay cool, tell us tell us a little bit more about it, because it seemed like almost everyone up there was envious of you being able to do that elimination.

It was my worst case scenario because when Ben found out he was going against me, I was pumped to have something in the sand involving like wrestling. I literally just wanted to do something physical, hand to hand combat. And I heard Johnny talking to someone in Era four like, dude, if it's like hand to hand, I'm just gonna let him win.

I don't want to mess up my face. I don't want to mess up my body. I'm too old. I can't afford an injury.

I know he's gonna give it his all, and I I just someone's gonna get hurt.

So I knew if I got something physical, I was.

Going to go him and he would probably not he would let me win. He would be more concerned about protecting his boat faith than like, you know, like And I also think he was actually okay to go home at that point in the game.

He didn't.

He wasn't running the show the way he's run shows in prior seasons, you know. And he said this to me when he hugged me after he eliminated me, Like, dude, you just had.

A better social game. You had the best social game in the house.

You're the only one that wasn't even selected as a target up until that point.

So it was worst case scenario.

For me to drive a vehicle. I literally haven't had a car since.

The year two thousand.

I only dried my mom's car when I'm in Jersey visiting. I don't drive, you know, And I know it's like an ATV and it's like Mario Kart, but but there is like.

It is like riding a bike, you know.

When you don't do it, it's kind of scary and when people are watching, it's embarrassing.

When you there's a time where you got close, like well, well there were two times that you got close. Uh one time when you got close and then you like reached over to grab it and then like everybody thought you were going to win that round and then you lost it. Can you tell us what happened? Did you did you hit the hay? Did you dip over like what happened.

Then I hit the freaking hay, is what I did.

I took a turn way too sharp, and I didn't really understand like the dynamic of like the turns in the sand. I just I accelerated too quick. And with those kind of vehicles with sand, you're going to like spin out if you're not like actually going in the same path that you've been going. If you're hitting loose sand full speed, it's going to get caught up in the motor. I don't really understand the hydraulics of it, but I knew that I was going too fast.

I think I got a little too ahead of them myself.

Wow.

And then the second time when he caught up to you, did you run out of gas?

I literally it's as if you were giving a ten year old an ATV for their tenth birthday and they're driving it for the first time, except you're competing for money and doing it on camera in front of all of your peers. So it was quite emasculating, to be honest, But you know, honestly, like if anyone's going to give me shit that I lost in a Mario kart elimination with Nanadas, Like, that's fine, I'll take it.

What were the rules because in that last one it looked like you tried to reach back and like block him and also try to grab his flag.

What were the rules for that?

That was me panicking. That was full on panic disco. I had nothing. I had nothing.

It was me just being like, I mean to take your flag, Like there was no way that I could even reach his flag. But that was just me like attempting to block him getting my flag. There was nothing I could do at that point. So yeah, I just panicked, just like I panicked at the end of the puzzle.

You know.

Yeah, let's talk about.

That, Ryan, Ryan, I say this with love. Now, when in the history of challenged him, has there ever been a solid black puzzle? Okay, now, there have been solid different color puzzles. When they put a solid all black puzzle on an all black board, you didn't flip, You didn't there wouldn't it.

When I dumped out my puzzle pieces, I kid you not, and they fell on the sand. They were all turned facing down. I didn't see any white. So when I picked up each puzzle piece one by one, I was solving the puzzle as a black tanagram or whatever shape hectagon. Yeah, yeah, stop stop sign. We'll just say stop sign gone. And I salved it and I was like and they're like nope. Rachel said she was watching me solve it and couldn't

No talking.

So I was just it was so depressing because I was the third guy to finish after giving away.

Two balls to Laurel. Yeah, so like I made up for lost time. And I think the heat.

I think I was rushing through it. I wasn't thinking outside of the box. And there was not one moment that I flipped a piece that had white on it.

It like I just see black ladies. That's it.

That was intense to watch. I was screaming at the screen, like Ryan filipp Am, I I know.

It was sad. It was sad.

All right, we have to take a quick break, but you already know we will be right back after.

Okay, let's get back to the show.

Wait, how much further behind were you than all the guys and were you the last person as a whole, like out of everyone or the last guy.

I was the third person to get to the puzzle, third person in general, and the last person, last man to solve it correctly.

Okay, yeah, so.

There were still women that were like still solving their puzzle.

It was yeah, Niam Mischelle, we're still doing their thing. But still it's just it's really.

Everybody has their moments. It's all right, Yes, it was entertaining. You made a really good episode, and no would is don't take it home.

Yeah, yes, you're right, you're right, yeah, don't.

Take it home. I do want to, you know, talk about something. It seemed like I'm the only one because first I brought up Laura. Now I'm about to jump into bananas because your relationship this season pretty much was like that elimination, the back and forth. I would like to know walk us through that you and this this Johnny thing.

I'm cool with Johnny.

I've seen Johnny a few times since we filmed, at like events in New York, and he's so different off the show when money's not on the line and when it's not his game, like he's.

He's a different human.

And I have to realize that I am the same human in the game that I am off he's not, and he's just able to compartmentalize that stuff, you know, He's able to like, Oh, we're good, now we're done filming, you know whatever it is. Yeah, really what happened was like we had no say in who the woman winner of the elimination was going to target, and him and the Amayah were selected for different reasons. I think Niamayah didn't have a relationship with a lot of the women.

Or Neamayah was. Derek also got.

Targeted as well, but at that point in the game, I had not been targeted once, Like, not a single girl wanted to say my name.

I didn't like seek that out.

Honestly, I was just myself and cool with everyone in the house, and so I'm literally brushing my teeth in the vanity room. Bananas comes in and he's like, you're just gonna let you're just gonna let me be a.

Target every time.

And I was like, I have no control over that, really brushing my teeth, and he's like, you're just gonna You're just gonna let me and Namiyah just like you're just gonna ride your way to the final. And I literally he had this smirk on his face that maybe

I couldn't believe it.

It really like it like it ruined my day because I was chilling.

And I get it. I get that you're pissed that you're being targeted, but.

Let's also remember the seasons I've done with you. I was kissing the ring so that I didn't get thrown into an elimination, not even the prospect of me potentially making a final. But it's like he would sprinkle breadcrumbs and be like, oh, you can stick around another week if you do this.

So I played his.

Game seasons over and over again, and he doesn't know this version of me. He thought he could talk his shit and intimidate me, and like, I'm not calling.

Him a bully. He didn't bully me, but you know.

Bull doze me into volunteering myself when no one else on our team had volunteered themselves except Emily. And the last thing Emily said to me when I said I'm going to volunteer to be target, she said, no, you're not. Do not volunteer to be a target. Not on this team. We've never done it. We don't trust each other. Do not ever nominate yourself to be a target on this team. So those were her famous last words to me. And I wasn't going to start like this trend of nominating

Going to stay out of that as long as I possibly can until it happened.

And then the following week I did wind up nominating myself because I felt like it was time and I knew that Rachel was going to select me Amaiyah and Neiamiah was such a team player and such a solid human being on our team. I did not want him to get selected as target again, and I just truly did it because I felt like it.

Was yeah, but it wasn't for Johnny.

It wasn't because Johnny got in my head and a lot of the fans were like saying, oh, you let anyone you I'm like, no, there's other people on the team and them is my boys.

So oh I appreciate that.

Yeah, I appreciate that. What do you think about this whole explosion that we're seeing between bananas, To and Tory and quite frankly, the impact Devin seems to still be having on the game.

I honestly think that Johnny easily crushes on several female cast members, and I think a lot of his behavior is very much like schoolyard tactics, like crush on Michelle.

Devin got Michelle.

Devin is public enemy number one because Devin got the girl in the playground. Olivia is taken with THEO once again, Like you know what I mean, I think it's this.

Like interesting take.

Yes, I do.

Think I think he kind of hates on beautiful independent strong women pairing up with you know, matched men, and yeah, and then at the end of the day he's.

Left alone with his hand in the shower. So I think that's where it stems from. Oh okay, I mean that's not shady. It's not shady.

It's not not it's not it's not sunny.

No, there's a chance of rain.

Little Palm tree Ish has an interesting take though, Yeah, I mean yeah, even if it's more of just like whether or not it's that he had like a full blown blown crush, which you know, hey, would.

Be valid, or if it's just the idea that he's not necessarily the sought after or like hot heart throb, you know what I mean, like of the season like that none of that, not only say none because I wasn't, but just that like the girls seemed to be to your point, interested in other people, and we see less of someone pursuing or chasing or showing strong interest in him, and so him not him missing that attention.

That he Yes, he's also had like two decades of women fans throwing themselves at him, wanting to take pictures with him, wanting any sort of piece of him, like you know, just a piece of that fame or I.

Expect him to be better with his balls in the challenge exactly.

Yeah, yeah, right. Tell us your take on Johnny's angels.

Well, I I think that I thought it was interesting that Rachel did what Evelyn did on the island, which was kind of surrender and just get like, all right, if you're not going to be in my enemy, you're going to be on my and we're going to do this together.

Like if you can't beat him, join them.

So I thought it was very strategic, very smart on Rachel's behalf, because quite honestly, I don't think anyone in the entire season has a higher standing than Rachel. She is kind of like everyone wants to seek her out, everyone wants to hear.

Verbally like oh I got your back for.

The next one, you know, like she is the one. She is like the queen Bee. And I don't even think she needed the alliance with Johnny, But I think in her head she now having that alliance with him, like she has him in the palm of her hand.

So I don't think that she was his angel. I think he was her hooker or something. I don't know, kind of like.

Yes, yes, Jenny it wasn't a surprise, like she was giving him foot massages on the bus every single day, like.

They were clearly formed the bond on war, the world's or whatever.

Did he ever give her one? Did you ever see that?

No?

Ew?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, oh yes yes he did.

So it was equitable massages, Okay, it was, but Jenny, like Jenny, didn't have a lot of number ones there, you know, And she wasn't also trying to make new alliances.

She was just being Jenny and just like very sweet to everyone, but not really putting in the works socially. So I think I think Bananas was Aviv's number one, Jenny's number one at some point Rachel's number one, or at least on paper, so he just had to end on moral as well. So he had four different girls that would consider him their number one, therefore creating this Johnny's Angels situation.

What I would say is smart about that. Not so

And yeah, and it's four champions. I mean, Aviv only did one season, but she won. All four of.

His angels have won a season as the solo female winner. That's yeah, that's four strong assed angels to have on your side, and so the likelihood of them winning and being able to protect him were very high, so he knew how to pick him.

So the way that the game is laid out, I think Johnny doesn't have a choice. The women pick the target, the men targets right, so he doesn't have a choice but to align himself with these women. The other women that are left, they're either in a showman's or like you said, they cousins who together or lived together for six and seven months at a time, or taken a trip for like a year and a half together. It's very tight knit. So it's like he really doesn't have

I will say, the one dumb thing I think he has done, I don't know if it's dumb, but like the one fallback. Well, actually no, there's two things. One of them is dumb. One. I think it was Kara who said right, which is so true. Anytime someone's ever won a daily they've never been up for elimination. At least in recent years that I can ever recall. So why he would have thought that Tory would have been target number one when she won that date? Like, why he would have thought that would have been.

Allowed because because on the last episode, I had volunteer to be a target, I escaped elimination because Rachel won and stay to me right in theory, I could not be targeted again because I was just a target. But when the game turned individual after Tory sent Casey home, TJ said, you can pick three targets. And Tory said to TJ, what if they were just a target? And TJ said, all rules are off, all.

Bets are off. It's individual now.

And I knew that Tory was referring to me because I was just a target. So I think that Johnny thought all best were off in every way because this is the first time that we would have known if Tory could get targeted even though she won. Like so the way that TJ worded it kind of made it seem like everything that you thought you knew this season is now out the window.

It's extreme for all. So he was thinking that that rule was gone.

No, you're right, so mad, but it's still done. Yet like you know, but that's fair, that's fair. I appreciate you singing up for him. That makes sense. The other thing that is semi dumb on his part but not fully done, but just bad you know example, or a bad repercussion. So, yes, he's made this alignment, the fact that he's now going after these women to sort of get back at Devon, who's sitting on his couch somewhere

Care kind of yeah, yeah, if he was gonna go, he was gonna go guns. I think after he told me when I saw him after we filmed, like when I won that elimination with you, I realized, you know what, I could win another one of these things. So it was that if I had sent him home, he would have been like shell fine. So it's kind of like, well, dude, you have so many other opportunities, like good for you, but like go do them, you know, like let us play let's let us play this game.

Interesting? Yeah, yeah, Well, on our episodes for this podcast, we usually do this era superlatives. However, we're no longer in eras anymore, so we can't do that. But Ryan, we would still like to ask you two questions. Are you up for the challenge?

Always up?

I see like that.

First question, who would you say is the under the radar person to watch in future episodes?

I would say Derek Chavis.

Yeah I feel that too.

Yeah he is. He's playing a really good game. He's getting some favors, not in a bad way. He's an amazing human being and he deserves that. He makes really long lasting friendships, and Avery did him a solid. I did him a solid I didn't want to go against him. I wanted at least one of us to move on in the competition. So and you, he doesn't get these favors because it's like people feel bad.

It's because people believe that.

He hasn't had a chance up until these past two seasons to really showcase how good at everything he is, and he just he doesn't. He stays like he I am very different than him. He stays out of the drama. He has opinions, but he's not vocal about them, and he's he's playing a really cute game, ladies, really cute.

He's very charismatic, very Yeah.

I love me some Derek, like I love me some Derek down that he is, and.

I like that he is not like he's not like an evil gay, you know, Like I mean, they definitely have like the evil gays.

I don't. I would hope to not be in that category.

Maybe I'm a little more sassy, Yeah I wouldn't.

I don't bite my tongue, but I'm not evil. I'm a truth teller.

But Derek, I like that he is so authentically a sweetheart and that's who he is. And he still competes. Well, it's like, you don't have to be an asshole to get far in the game.

And did you see those tworking skills? I mean that side handstand. I really feel like overall, Devin is still winning this season. He got the upside down handstand lap dance from Derek, He's not he got the girlfriend, okay, the girl of his dreams, and he's not even competing anymore. And yet he's still a pain in bananas behind and he has like this team of a binger women sort of rallying behind him, but he's not even there anymore. Like that's actually quite impressive.

He also got more appearances, like a superimposed.

Devin yes and boys appearances than Grel did the entire episode.

Not you throwing shade back in full circle? Yeah. Speaking of which, who do you want to see go home? Of the guys and the girls? Who do you want to see go home? Next?

Hmm?

I would I would like to see Jordan have to see an elimination. I don't necessarily want him to go home because I do love the guy, but I'd like him to get in the sand and remind us why he is Jordan.

But I would like i think I would like Kyland to go home.

Oh oh not Cam Why he's just been a little too opinionated on both things recently.

Like just I just think I think he needs to like be humbled a little.

Bit, Okaylumar. Yeah, we enjoy having you here Ryan so much so as we are so glad that you've come. You've given us some insight. You have driven faster and further into these questions than you did in the elimination, and for that we thank you.

Uh.

For those who want to continue to follow your your journey, your story and sort of the inspiration of how you've really changed your life in such a beautiful way, where can they find you on.

Social Ryan Kehoe? My first and last name, five is my Instagram, Ryan Kyo five is my Twitter, and I mean for the grandparents out there, you can find me on Facebook as well.

I'm probably the first.

Geez Facebook invite. He's been such fun, Ryan, We appreciate you, uh and what you contributed to the season. Look, the season wouldn't have been the same without you by any means, so we hate to see you go, but you definitely have contributed a lot to this season.

Thank you so much.

Such a great interview. I love that Ryan was so open with us and shared everything about his experience on this season. Yes, now, as always, where can the people find you? All the socials of the medias well.

You can find me on the socials of the Media's on Instagram at Devin Simone. You can go to my website devinsimone dot com doing some fun games including polls and trivia's. I know a lot of you guys like to give me your opinions what I do and don't say this, so come find me on Amazon go to I think it's like Amazon dot com slash Devin or just type that in and you'll find me because I'd love to hear from my challenge peeps. You can also find me on TikTok at Devin Simone as well what about you Day.

You can find me on the socials and media's all of them across the board, all platforms at devon Diane Underscore, and you can also catch me here.

Yes, woohoo, we absolutely love that and we know that this episode covered some serious topics. So if you are someone you know as struggling emotionally or with substance misuse, you are not alone. Visit mentalhealth ishealth dot us for more info and ways to get help.

Yes, and we would like to thank you guys for joining us for another episode of MTV's Official Challenge Podcast. To all your fellow Challenge fans to listen, Let them listen, okay, and make sure to leave us a five star review on Apple and Spotify.

And of course, join us every Thursday to hear brand new episodes of TV's Official Challenge Podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts.

I love how he said Mary o'part.

I did

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