Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Mary Miao. She is an oncology medical science liaison at ImmunoGen, and we talk about why it is so hard to get into oncology. So interesting conversation. Mary's awesome. Don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn and Instagram, and check out our videos on YouTube. We have a channel called MSL Talk.
And then we also have a live discussion group, which is on the 1st Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM EST, and that's called MSL Talk Live, and it's on LinkedIn Live. So be on the lookout for those announcements, and thank you guys for joining us. I think you're gonna like this. Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Mary. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be on.
I know. This is awesome. And for everybody for those of you that don't know Mary, she and I first met actually through Julie Chen, who's my cohost on the MSL talk live, which we do once a month, now on LinkedIn live. It's the 1st Tuesday of the month, typically, at 1:30 PM EST, which is just like this, but it's a panel discussion, and it's live. And, Mary has been on that a couple of times now. So she is no stranger to this. So I am so grateful to have you here. Thank you for joining.
Yeah. Again, thanks so much for having me. I think it's like great opportunity. I'm so excited to be out here. Yeah. Let's do it. Before I let you introduce yourself, we do have a sponsor for this episode. And this is actually really exciting because the sponsor is Momentum Events, and they're producing the 2nd MSL best practices summit, and that's coming up on September 14th 15th. What's awesome about this is it's virtual. So everybody can attend. I highly recommend that you do.
I already saw the list of speakers and the topics. I'm actually doing a panel, so you can come check out my panel. But you definitely wanna try to attend this. It's, it focuses entirely on expanding the MSO role and responsibilities while ensuring core values are maintained to generate value in a compliant and effective manner for KOLs and internal step stakeholders.
So if you wanna check them out or register or both, just visit their website at momentum events.com, and then you just search on the MSO best practices event, and then you'll find that right on there. Now they have an offer for anyone listening to this podcast. Use discount code Tom 20. So it's tom2c0, no spaces, to get a 20% discount on your registration. So momentum events.com/mslpractices. Discount code is Tom 20 to get 20% off. So check that out. And, Mary, let's do an intro.
Tell everybody who you are and where you're from and all that good stuff. Alright. So hi, everyone. I am Mary. I live in California, and I am a pharmacist by training. I start off my career as oncology pharmacist, and I practice for over 5 years and then decided to go into hospital management and pharmacy management. And so I did that for 4 years, and I realized at that point how much I missed being oncology. And that is when I sought out the oncology MSL role, and that is where I am today.
So I first joined industry as oncology MSL for AstraZeneca, and I was there for over a year. And then I transitioned to a small biotech company called ImmunoGen, and that's where I'm right now. Awesome. And you came up with this topic, which I think is awesome. It's really exciting. We had kicked around a couple of different ideas. But what you said is true. It is very difficult to get into oncology, so we wanna talk about that. And I guess we should start by asking the question why.
So why is oncology so hot right now? Well, I mean, I think my answers might be a little biased because I've always loved oncology. It is my passion. I live and breathe oncology. But I think it's just such a fascinating field. I mean, just speaking, like, just speaking on the science itself. Right? There's so much cutting edge technology coming out. I mean, just in the last 10 years, all these different treatment options have grown by leaps and bound across different tumor types.
I mean, you have, like, antibody drug conjugates, you have bispecifics, you have vaccines, you have immunotherapies. Like, there's just so much in oncology that it's hard to keep up, but it's so exciting. So that's, I think, one part about why I think oncology is so hot and why everyone wants to get a piece of it. I think the second part is what touches more your soul, your heart is that just the fact that you're saving lives.
You're really making impact on these patients who are living on very limited timelines. And I think just being that space and being able to help them live a few weeks longer, like, you know, a lot of a few month longer. I mean, that I think that stuff is what really keeps me oncology and really what drives a lot of people in college as well.
I mean, like, just to give an example, if anyone attended ASCO in June during the plenary session when they presented a data for DESTINY Breast 4, which really gave these patients who didn't really have a lot of options, a new treatment regimen. There was a standing ovation after the presentation, and that's I mean, that stuff gives me goosebumps, and that's what keeps me going every day. And I think that's what really drives a lot of people to oncology as well. Totally.
I mean, that's what it's all about, and we all know someone. We've all been affected. You know, we all know someone that has, you know, struggled with or had this disease, even if it's a little bit separated from us. But, you know, no one's a stranger to this. So when it comes to good news and it comes to scientific advancements, it it it's it's one of the greatest things in our profession that we can see. And I think that that's part of a draw.
I think that people wanna be involved in that type of excitement and that type of science and that type of advancement potential because of what it can do for the patients. Definitely. Definitely. I totally agree. So why is it so hard to get into oncology? I mean, let's just cut right to the chase. It it, you know, it's not easy to break in, but it seems like there's a lot of opportunity at the same time.
I think the biggest thing about getting to oncology is really need to have that experience before you can really become a good oncology MSL. I mean, oncology is just so specialized. There's, like, different terminologies and different terms and different, like, nuances in oncology that I really need to know that you can't pick up from a textbook. I mean, it's like just to give example. Right?
Like, if you're talking about hair loss associated with a certain treatment regimen, it's just not hair loss. Like, you need to know that there's different degrees of hair loss. There's like hair thinning, there's total hair loss, there's partial hair loss, and how that matters and how that impacts patients depends on where in the treatment regimen they are. Like, is it in the curative settings, in the palliative setting? Is it first line? Is it second line?
I mean, all of that makes a difference, and that kind of stuff, we only really get to pick up once you've been oncology and have practice and been exposed for a certain period of time, and you can't pick up that kind of stuff from a textbook. So I think that's what's really critical about getting to oncology is having that prior experience before trying to make it in. Because otherwise, it's really hard for you to, so to speak, like talk to talk and walk the walk, right?
And the great thing about oncology is these KOLs and HCPs actually want to talk to MSLs because they're constantly looking for that data update. They want about they want to know about what's coming out and what the newest treatment regimens are or treatment options are for these patients. So the MSLs have high impact every time they meet with a KOL. And if you can't build up your credibility right away, you lose them. I mean, you lose your street cred. Right?
And, like, if you can have that deep scientific conversation right up front, you're just gonna lose them right away. So I think that's why it is a little bit difficult to break into oncology, especially if you don't have any prior oncology experience. And it's you're so right. It's such a strong community. And oncology wants oncology, meaning, you know, oncology companies want people from the community to be a part of their team, essentially.
And that's one of the other reasons why it's so tough to break in is that in order to be a part of it, you have to kinda show that you're a part of it. Exactly. Yeah. I don't wanna get too far ahead of ourselves. I know we're gonna talk about that a little bit later. But looking at the therapeutic area itself, how does that differ from other therapeutic areas? I think oncology is just so fast paced. I mean, kinda like what I mentioned before, like new data is just constantly coming out.
I mean, by the time a drug gets approved by the FDA or it makes it to the national guidelines, it's already old. People have already been doing it for a month or years, and, like and then by that time, new data is coming out. It's just constantly it just explosion of data, and you just have to keep on top and stay ahead of everything that's coming out. And I think that's what makes oncology a little bit different.
And it's just, you know, the sense of urgency because there's there are lives at stake, and these patients are living on very limited timelines. So I think that's what, is a big difference between oncology and some of the other TAs. I mean, for example, if we think about I'm just gonna give out statins as an example. I mean, that's a life changing cause of drugs. Right?
And also changing lives and making huge impacts for patients, but we're talking about extending lives for years years instead of month as an oncology. So I think for me, that's one of the biggest difference. And another difference and it's really in the research piece, and it highlights the highly unmet need for the patients too, is if you look at the phase one trials, right, like oncology phase one trials, they're all done with patients who really have no options left.
Those are the patients who are doing phase one trials, whereas if you're looking at other TAs, they're healthy volunteers. And I think that for me really highlights the difference between oncology and other TAs. Yeah. That's great. I mean, it's, I don't think a lot of people realize, like, the stuff that you're talking about, like, the only way you would know this is if you're, like, ingrained in the space. Exactly. So this is valuable information.
So the next question is gonna be, because people are gonna really want to know the answer to this, is how does somebody get into oncology? Well, I feel okay. If you already have oncology experience, I feel like that's a little different. But if you don't, I think the most helpful thing you can do for yourself is get that oncology experience.
I mean, definitely expand your network and, you know, try to see if you can get any kind of works experience in an infusion center, in a clinic, in a hospital setting, or even doing, like, oncology research and things like that. I think that's how you build your foundation to be able to get in. Because like I said, without that experience, it's really gonna be hard for you to survive in an oncology role and be be able to pick up all that street talk, so to speak, in a limited amount of time.
And then if you do have, like, oncology experience, but I think, you know, also building up your network, doing your research, and if you have a specific tumor type that you're interested in, like, definitely do your due diligence and find out which companies specialize in a tumor type that you're looking for. Do your homework, talk to people, and, like, talk to your local MSL.
You know, like, if you work at a cancer center or, like, a hospital and you know that there's MSL who visits that site, you know, build your relationship with the MSL because they can make connections for you, and they can introduce you to people, or you can learn from them. And, like, you know, if they ever leave their role, that's an opening for you.
I mean, I'll tell you, it seems so simple, but that is such an important thing to do is if you're a clinician and you're working in the community, you should definitely create relationships with MSLs even if it's just to gain some insights, do an informational interview. We had a whole podcast about doing informational interviews, how important it is.
But once you get that person in your network and get to know them, hopefully, get them in your phone, you could if if there's a way that in the future, maybe a position comes up, you could text that person and be like, hey. Just so this position popped up in your company. Any chance you can help me get my resume in front of the right people? It seems simple, but it it but that's how it works sometimes. No. It totally is. And same thing with the KOLs.
So if you work in oncology already, then you should know your territory and you should know who the major players are. So make your connections with them. And then that makes a difference if you're going through the interview process. If you can say, like, let's say, like, you're covering Texas, then you obviously need to know that MD Anderson is a huge player.
And if you can say, like, oh, I work with so and so from MD Anderson that, like, you know, that makes you stand out and that makes you that shows that you know what you're talking about. You know your territory and what you're dealing with. Well and by the way, I mean, we're we should be clear that I it's important to network any opportunity you can get. If you're in the community, you should actually network and get to know as many people in the community as possible.
So that goes beyond what's in front of you in your clinical practice. It goes beyond the MSLs. It's anyone that is in the community that either you can be an asset to at some point in time, or that they may be an asset to you. It works both ways. And I think that that's important when you're networking is to let people know, hey. I'd love to help you out in any way I can. Yeah. So keep that in mind. Alright. So let's just say you transition it.
So you wind up your in an oncology MSO role and you transition in. Like, what do you need to do to prepare yourself and ensure your success in that transition? Learn. Learn. Learn. I mean, you really gotta, you know, just immerse yourself in that in the data, in the environment. Talk to as many people as you can. Really know your product, really know your own data, but also your competitors, because oncology is all about, like, there's just so many options out there.
There's so many drugs coming out. Like, you need to not only know your own drug and data, you should know your competitors and what the competitive landscape looks like. I think that's really important. Join professional societies, like ASCO is a great one. You get a lot of resources from there. And you just talk to as many people as you can, do a lot of field rights, learn from your fellow MSLs.
I mean, that's how I think that you can just keep your options open and just keep learning, learning, learning. Yeah. Asco is a no brainer. I mean, you definitely wanna mark that on your calendar. Try to get out there every year. Some companies don't send everyone. Some do. Sometimes you're lucky enough to be able to go and sometimes not.
But if you're in the oncology space, especially if you're looking to break into this space or if you're an oncology, looking to become an MSL or you're looking to get a position in industry, you need to get there. It's the number one greatest networking opportunity for people in oncology in the whole year, really. It's in the beginning of June. Put it on your calendar. Get yourself out there. Bring a ton of business cards. Be organized. Do your research ahead of time.
Figure out what companies you wanna see, who you wanna network with. Start getting feelers out there on LinkedIn. Set up meetings ahead of time. That's really good advice, and I think it's important to make sure that you stay connected within the community, just like you said, because that's gonna help you grow your career once you're in. Yeah. Exactly. And that's just one conference. I mean, there are a lot of other ones depending on your specific tumor type.
There's a lot of local conferences that you can meet too, and that'll be great for getting to know your territory if you join a lot of the local conferences. So any kind of conference, I think, is good, especially now that we're live. You just get to meet so many people in a short amount of time. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Alright. So we're gonna do something a little different. We're gonna flip the script right now because Mary has some questions for me.
In the course of our preparation for this, she actually started firing some questions out. I'm like, alright. Let's do it. Let's go. So what do you got for me? Alright. So my number one question, and this is something I always wonder when I first started applying, is how do you make your application stand out on paper? I mean, I've talked to and I experienced this myself, and I also have people who reach out to me LinkedIn.
And when I talk to them, they're awesome like they have such really awesome good experience and I think they will be really good. But then they're always telling me like I never hear back. I never get past HR. So like how do you make your resume or CV stand out so you actually get past that screening process?
Yeah. This is a question that I get all the time, and it's it's an important one because if you don't have the right keywords, phrases, and information documented on your CV, you're not gonna get to go. You're not gonna pass go. You're not gonna get to where you need to be. So the first thing that you wanna do is you wanna make sure that before you apply to any position and this goes for any position.
And I want everybody to listen to what I'm about to say very clearly because it's really, really important. It could change the whole course of your job search. Take the job description, highlight the keywords, phrases, and language specific to that job description, and take those and incorporate them into your CV where you can. And when when the reason I say where you can is because you need to support everything that you're putting on your CV. Anything you put on your CV, you need to support.
Can't just put keywords and transferable skills and phrases onto your CV unless it's something that you've done, you're capable of doing, or you have some level of background or experience in. But the reason I'm saying that you wanna be really specific in using their language is because on their job description, their applicant tracking system is gonna be set to those keyword phrases and that language. So if you incorporate it into your CV let's just say you're you're saying the same thing.
You're doing the same thing. You're just not using the right language. Well, by making this change, incorporating the right language and the right keywords and the right phrases, you're now gonna be you're gonna prove to be a match for that job description and for that opportunity. So when you apply, it's gonna stand out. And this is this doesn't just go for the way the electronic and digital applicant tracking systems, AI, let's call it, or, you know, artificial intelligence.
It goes for when someone's reviewing your CV against the job description, they're gonna be looking for that same stuff. So once you include it, you now are matching the job description, and you have a much better chance of being selected. So that's the number one thing I think people need to do to make their resume stand out, get noticed. You know, it it's if you, you know, if you change your CV to a pink background, yeah, it's gonna get noticed. It's not gonna get noticed in a good way. Right?
I mean, I don't want you to get crazy. Some people get really super creative, and they send their CV out to get reformatted, or they send it out to a specialist. And it has all these fancy charts and graphs and boxes and images and and all this other stuff. And to tell you the truth, that's not it's actually gonna hurt you because that stuff doesn't get picked up in applicant tracking system filters. It's the language. It's the keywords. It's the phrases. That's what you wanna focus on.
That's really helpful, Tom. And I'm sure our listeners will benefit a ton. I wish I had that when I was applying, because it took me a lots of tries to get there. Okay. But let's make it a little more specific then. So if you're looking specifically to higher oncology MSLs, what are your clients looking for? So that's a good question. It does vary, but I will tell you this. Most times again, I said it before. Oncology wants oncology.
So if you're a neuroscience expert and and let's say you're at MSL and your whole background's in neuroscience, I wouldn't apply for an oncology MSL position because you're they're probably not gonna wanna see you. Maybe rare rare instances, but, so number 1, you wanna highlight your oncology expertise. More specifically, my clients typically look for clinical experience.
So if you're let's just say you're a clinical pharmacist or let's say you're a BCOP, a board certified oncology pharmacist, very desirable. That background is a very desirable thing to have on your resume. It's gonna get flagged in a good way. So that's definitely something that you wanna document. You know, oncology is so much about the patient that if you have oncology research experience, I'm not saying it's bad. Not at all. And I'm not saying that you're not a good fit for an MSL position.
But clients typically wanna see some experience with the patient, some type of clinical experience. So that piece of it, I think, trumps everything else. So highlight experience that you have in a clinical setting. I think that that's gonna be really important in how you document it, again, against what it says on the job description. Because when they see that, they can say, wow. This person this is really relevant. This person knows their stuff.
You also wanna be specific about what type of oncology experience you have. You know, you wanna just say oncology. You wanna talk about tumor types. And if is it you know, are you talking about you know, do you have experience more hematology oncology? Is it more medical oncology? Is it, you know, is it lung cancer? Is it pancreatic cancer? Is it head and neck, GU? Like, you really wanna be as specific as you possibly can.
And you also wanna document anything that would lend itself to you being a good fit as an MSL. What types of writing skills do you have? You know, abstracts, articles, presentations. Put everything on there. And a lot of times people say to me, well, Tom, you know what? If I do that, my CV is gonna be 14 pages. Okay. Then it's 14 pages. Maybe you have a 2 page version that references for a complete CV. Please, you know, notify, whatever.
But you wanna have that full version because you wanna be able to show everything that you've done and everything that you're capable of doing. So I hope that helps. You totally hit on a nail, Tommy. I mean, oncology is all about the patients, and having that pace direct patient experience is so invaluable. Totally agree. So with that, like what advice then would you have for any kind of or MSL or aspiring MSL's to transition to oncology?
Well, and I don't wanna be redundant and just repeat what you said, but if you don't have oncology experience and you really wanna get in the space, you have to factor in a a couple of years of of service in the in the space. Otherwise, you're not really gonna be a viable candidate. I just had someone reach out to me on LinkedIn literally last night, and they're like, okay. I just started this new job.
I'm in this biotech company in an entry level position, and, you know, I'm gonna stay here for 6 months, and then I'm gonna transition into being an MSL. Do you think that's a good idea? Well, I can't tell you that in 6 months, you're gonna be ready for an MSL role or someone's gonna wanna hire you for an MSL role. It might take years. I think it's good that you're out there getting professional experience. You're getting industry experience.
But when we look at oncology, you have to be prepared to be in it for a little while. So I think it's important to level set your expectations, get as much experience as you can, try to get experience on the patient care side, obviously, on the clinical side, and do everything that you can to make yourself an attractive candidate. So if you have the clinical piece and let let's just say let's fast forward.
So you have the clinical piece, and you have a really good oncology background, but you're not getting noticed. Well, what else are you bringing to the table? What presentations can you show that you've done? How are you as a speaker? How are you as a writer? What kind of, you know, publications or abstracts or articles have you done that are gonna show that you can be a good written communicator in the role? Because that's a big part of it as well. How are your interpersonal skills?
It's hard to highlight that that on a CV, but you certainly can. You can use language and action verbs that show that you're a good communicator. You could just literally tell them and put it in there. So, like, you have to be really incredibly detailed with your value proposition so that when people look at your CV, they could start checking boxes of everything that's required to be a good MSL. And it's a lot. It's a lot of work.
I mean, I I try to tell people, you know, every once in a while, someone, like, knows someone and they just kinda get lucky and they're in the right place at the right time and it works out. And then there's other times where it takes years for people to break in. I get I agree. It took me almost a year to break in, so totally get it. And then I'm gonna last question. I'm gonna flip, the quest the question around what you asked me.
I'm gonna ask you, like, what advice do you have for people once they land in oncology? Well, and and this again, and I don't wanna sound redundant, but when once you land a role as an oncology MSL, it's a competitive environment. So now you're in this this community of people all around you that probably have a decent amount of experience or at least more than you. So how do you stand out? How do you establish your career? How do you grow your career? Well, you do it once one day at a time.
Don't there's no such thing as the 5 run home run. Don't think that you're gonna show up on day 1 and you're gonna have 5 years of experience. Every single day, you need to be working towards developing your resume, your skill set, your experience, your background so that a year from now, 2 years from now, 3 years from now, you're gonna have a really nice body of work that you can document on your resume. So you wanna work each and every day.
Now what are some of the things that you should be doing? Well, the first thing that you should do is if you let's just say you're on a basketball team and, you know, you're new and, you know, you're good, but you're you're not the best and you want to get better. The first thing I would do is I'd find the best player on the team, and I'd work with that person. I'd ask that person to help me. I'd emulate that person. I would see what their workout routine is like. How much extra do they put in?
What kind of drills do they do? What kind of cardio do they do? What's their nutrition, their diet? How often do they do free throws? Whatever. I'm not a basketball player. I'm a wrestler. I use the wrong analogy. But the point of the matter is surround yourself with performers, surround yourself with leaders and senior folks that are gonna be able to bring you to the next level. Emulate what they do. Ask them questions. Spend time with them.
And that's how you want to model your career after the people that are best in the role. It's almost like you're going in for a test and you grab somebody on the way out and say, hey, by any chance, do you have the answers to this test? And they're like, oh, yeah, by the way, I do. Here it is.
Like, not that it's that easy, but I could tell you that the mentors that are out there that I know that I've had on this podcast, they're delighted to help people that come in in the beginning of their career, to show them the ropes and what it is that they need to do to define success. So that's the first thing that I would do. The second thing I would do is or the next thing I would do is, as you're building up this body of work, document it.
Pull your resume out, your CV out every 3 months, at once a quarter, once every 6 months. Make sure that at least twice a year, let's just say during Christmas break and during the summertime, during 4th July weekend, I don't know, give it a name, like, twice a year, you're going to revise, update, and put into your CV all of the things that you've accomplished over that 3 to 6 month period.
And now what happens is this is a living, breathing, growing document that when it comes time, whether it's for that promotion or whether it's for a new job, you're set. You're ready to go. I would absolutely do that. I would also be really, really diligent on LinkedIn. I would be on LinkedIn weekly. I would connect with every single person you interact with in your professional life.
So every day, at the end of the day, make a list of all the people that you interacted with internally and externally and send them a connection request. Hey. Great chatting with you today. Wanna add you to my professional network. Please let me know if I can ever be of help to you. Boom. Now you have that person in your network. You also offered to help that person, which I think is really important.
And maybe you might have to take the they might take you up on that, which you really wanna make sure you do do a good job because now what you're doing is you're building relationships. You're also building indebtedness, and that's what helps you grow your career. So those are really the three things that I would do right from the get go is I would start out by emulating the the the top key players and senior folks on your team.
I would, document your success, and I would get on to LinkedIn each and every day to make sure that in addition to doing the stuff that you need to do on a day to day basis, you're also building your network so that you have those relationships for when you need them down the road when you start a job search or when you're looking for a promotion. That is such great advice, and I love that alert. I actually I think I heard it from your podcast.
So I actually have alert on my calendar every month. Actually, that reminds me if I have done anything that's worth writing down, I actually jot it down on a tracker, and I track it every month just so that I have a living document. Well, it's funny, but, like, you know, some people, like, every I don't know. Every Easter, they change the batteries in their smoke detectors. Right? Like, there's things that you do regularly each year.
You go to the I I get my teeth cleaned every 6 months without fail. Sometimes I shrink it, and every 4 months I go because I believe in in good dental hygiene and I believe in white teeth. Anyway, that's a little too much about me. The point of the matter is it's it's not a question. It's not like, well, I sometimes go to the it's not it's at least 2 to 3 times a year without fail.
And I think that if you take that same approach with your CV, you're never gonna be stumped as to what you need to say and incorporate into it when the time comes. I can't tell you how many people they come to me and are like, well, my CV is not updated. It's like, well, dude, it's been 5 years. Like, well, can you help me? Probably not. I mean, like, you need to document this stuff. I could I can help you with it, but you need to still know what it is that you did.
So don't wind up in that situation where you're trying to recollect what you can't what you accomplished over the course of several years in a few minutes sitting down trying to rewrite your CV. Oh, yeah. I totally agree. And I so agree with, you know, what you said about just emulate the top players in the field because I think, you know, with oncology MSLs, a lot of these, professionals are coming in from at the top of their game.
I mean, a lot of these have been practicing oncology clinicians for, like, years, and they're coming in at the top of the game, and they have to accept that they're starting over in a new role. And you have to be in that mindset that you are starting over. You're no longer at the top, and you just have to be in that humble headspace to just learn as much as you can and try to talk to as many people as you can and, you know, be humble. Yeah. Oh, no doubt. No doubt. I get all fired up.
You got me all fired up flipping the script on me like that. But listen, guys, I'm passionate about this. I want to help you guys. And, you know, I this isn't just advice that I'm giving to somebody that is newly transitioning into a role. This is advice that's good for anybody. Anybody that's in your career. I know how busy everyone gets. I do believe that you need to make time to do this.
This sounds very pie in the sky, but it is easy if you schedule and chunk your time every day and just put it on your calendar and just say, I'm gonna take an hour or 2 hours and segment your time to do this. And I'm gonna take an hour here to send out LinkedIn connection requests. I'm gonna take an hour here to update my CV.
You know, I'm gonna reach out to this MSL, this MSL, and this MSL, and see if they'll give me 30 minutes of their time to pick their brain on what it is that they think I need to do to position myself to be a leader on the team or to to perform. And, and I'm sure they'll be willing to do it or your supervisor. I mean, don't forget that I keep talking about more senior people on the team, but, you know, rely on your supervisors, have a really good relationship with your boss.
I think that that's incredibly important for any career. But these are some of the things that I think, you should definitely make note of, and definitely incorporate into your professional life. But I don't wanna end this. I want you to end this. So last piece of advice, Mary, that you have for the people out there listening that are either in oncology looking to transition or people that are trying to get into oncology. What would you say to these folks?
Keep your connections, establish new connect connections, always be in a mindset to learn, and get that clinical experience. Like Tom said, that clinical piece, that patient that patient care piece is just so important in oncology. And if you have that under your belt, you'll go far. And I think that is the best advice I can get it give anyone, especially if you don't have it that experience. Go out and get it.
Like, do your magic and build your network and get that experience because that is really valuable. No doubt. And last piece of advice, don't forget to sign up and register for the second best practice MSL best practices conference, which is on September 14th 15th. I definitely think it would be a good use of your time, and it's virtual. And you get a 20% discount. So go to their website, Tom 20. Alright, guys. Thank you for your time. Mary, thank you. You're awesome. And, we'll see you soon.
We'll see you on either MSL talk live, or we'll have you back on this podcast. Thanks so much, Tom. It was really great being here. Thank you for the opportunity. Alright. Take care, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future, and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.