Hey, guys. Welcome back. My guest today is Sarah Snyder. She is associate director of medical affairs at BioSpice Therapeutics, and we talk about why it's important for MSLs to be lifelong learners. As always, Sarah is awesome. She's a repeat guest. I hope you guys really like this. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube and Instagram, and, of course, hook up with me on LinkedIn. And don't forget to check us out on MSL talk live on Clubhouse, which is the 1st Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM EST.
Thanks for joining me. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Sarah. Welcome back. How are you today? I am doing great. How are you? Awesome. I am awesome, and I'm glad to have you back. You're always so easy to talk to. You're and and you have such great ideas. And so I I was just telling some folks on my team. I'm like, yeah. Doing a podcast today. Sarah Snyder's coming back. I'm like, it's gonna be great.
It's gonna be such a great conversation. So I'm looking to have have forward to having you back. I'm thrilled to be back. So I think the podcast that you're doing is is not just for aspiring MSLs, but for existing MSLs in all medical affairs. It's just something we should be listening to. It's especially in the last year, like, when we can't get together a lot of times or we can't go to maybe the conferences with other MSLs and and talk to each other.
It it it shows everybody what some of the best practices. So thank you for doing it. You know, it's kind of funny, but a lot of people think that this podcast is just for aspiring MSLs. And, you know, I love my aspiring MSLs. Quick shout out to anybody that's looking to break into an MSL role. I love you guys. Keep doing what you're doing. Stay motivated. Keep listening. But there are so many MSLs, MSL leaders, folks that are in the industry, that reach out to me all the time.
I have there's I talked to VPs of medical affairs. Like, Tom, I have never missed one episode. They really like and I'm not trying to like, I'm saying that only because the content that comes from folks like you and the guests that I bring on here is tremendous. It really is. And I I go back and listen to certain episodes at different times because I'm like, jeez. I have to listen to that again because I was so good. There was so much really good information.
So but why don't you do an introduction before we start talking through this whole thing? Yeah. I know. Okay. Yeah. My name is Sarah Snyder, and I live in the Midwest. And I am a mom and a wife, and, I've got 3 kids actually through international adoption and 3 dogs. I'm actually a fellow podcaster. I podcast about running. So I'm, you know, big into athletics, sports, fitness, nutrition. And then obviously I've been in medical affairs for, oh, gosh, I think almost 25 years.
I started out in drug information, as a resident at Eli Lilly, which is part of the reason I love even though, like you said, that your focus isn't on the aspiring MSLs. I I just remember all the value I got from all my mentors during my fellowship, and that's something that just changed my life. So I'm always willing to help people and just answer questions, and I don't know it all, but I've got made them out a lot of mistakes. Right? So, I like to do that.
And, currently, I work at BioSpice Therapeutics. I'm associate director there in medical affairs, and I work on a drug for, knee osteoarthritis. We're a small company, but I'm really happy there. They're based in San Diego, and, I actually work for a friend of mine, and it's just a great place. So happy to be on, and I look forward to the chat.
Yeah. And when I thought this topic just kinda came to my mind and because I was thinking of how I know how important it is to be a subject matter expert and to be a lifelong learner and to constantly be on top of everything when you're in MSL. That's so important. And I really and I'm not just saying this. I really thought of you when I had had this idea because I know you're really on top of your game. You read a lot of books. You listen to podcasts.
You're all over clubhouse, and you're just totally dialed in and are constantly learning. So my first question is, tell me why that's important for MSLs. Yeah. I the first thing is the opposite of learning is boredom. So I think that, you know, if you find yourself bored, you know, you're obviously you've stopped learning.
So and, you know, if you look at the data, actually, like, boredom is associated with heart disease and anxiety and depression and all these things, and it's really easy to get in a pattern of that. So I think that's the first thing. You know, I think as scientists, anybody that goes into medical affairs as was probably a good student. Right? So, you know, it may be not exceptional, but, you know, pretty good and and considers themselves a lifelong learner. Right?
I think if you look at the data, there's surveys out there that 3 out of 4 Americans consider themselves of a lifelong learner. So we do. We think we are. But then I think that we have to do this gut check and think, like, wait a second. You know, are we really? And most of my colleagues and friends that have entered that MSL role, we all started with this entrepreneur spirit. Right? We came in and we were excited.
And then you you slug away for a while and you kind of you get the training plan brought to you and you get the the articles that you're supposed to read. And all of a sudden, you're doing the things that you're told to do. But are you also seeking out the things that are gonna make you even better and bring you up a notch? And I think it's easy to kinda get lost in that. And and then also, I think you know, I I say this too. Like, I don't know how to do that, or they haven't taught me that yet.
And when you find yourself saying that, if you've ever said that as an MSL, like, well, the company you know, my trainer hasn't taught me that, or the company hasn't sent us training on that. You know, I think that you gotta look back at yourself, and I have to do that to myself and be like, personal accountability. Like, my my learning is my responsibility. It's not my director. It's not my, you know, my mentor. It's not anybody else at my company. You know? It's me.
Yes. They can give me my training plan and whatnot, but I think it's up to us to, like, take over what we really need to be, you know, the best. It's it's kinda cliche, but, like, that best version of yourself. So that's that's kinda where I'm at. Yeah. No. I'm right there with you. And I and it's so easy now. I mean, it's never been a better time. No. Because if you feel like there's something that you're you're you need to learn more about or that you're not up to speed on Yeah.
There's obviously the Internet. There's podcasts. There's books. There's books on tape or, you know, audiobooks. There's so much available that we almost have no excuse. Right. What tell me about so, obviously, you think MSO, you think of the importance of the scientific piece. Or is that what we're talking about, or is there a lot of personal development learning that you're adding into this as well? Yeah. Well, obviously, you have to have a scientific background. You know?
I think that, you know, 99.9% of the people that get into the role, they'll have that. So we all you know, it's just being able to apply that. I actually I'll tell you a quick story. I remember, one of my jobs previously, like, before you went to talk to KOLs, even if you had been a previous MSL, you had to give this canned kinda talk, and you had to have all the p values memorized, like, to the, you know, to the exact, you know, decimal point and whatnot, all these things.
And I remember thinking, like, this is ridiculous. And when I think back to that, it was ridiculous because you do have to be able to think on your feet. You've gotta be able to know your data in and out, but you also have to be able to read your clients and figure out what people wanna know. You have to be able to negotiate. You have to be able to talk to people at different levels and, figure out how to write, you know, good emails.
There's all these different things that I think make an exceptional, MSL that are so way beyond just the data. I mean, yes, being awesome at statistics, I think, can take you another level too. You know? Like, that could be your kind of niche on your team, and you could teach your colleagues about, you know, statistics and whatnot. But I think those all the things that are really gonna move you up a notch are the more the the things you can get on your own.
Like you said, you can get all that stuff. Some of the problem is there's so much out there. It's hard to know kinda where to start, and then you've got that decision fatigue where it's like, woah. Jeez. There's all these books. I go to Barnes and Noble, and you go to the nonfiction section. You're like, well, I don't know which one to choose, so I'm not gonna choose any of them. You know? I think that comes into play too.
Yeah. So sometimes it's, you know, a little bit of a a wheel that people can get on. Well, how do you manage that? So what's your advice to people that are looking for a place to start? What what would you tell them? Yeah. I think that you gotta think about where you wanna get to. So when I was thinking about some of these questions, I was thinking about when, you know, I mentioned my kids are from across the world. So I remember thinking, I wanna learn Russian. You know?
I'm gonna learn Russian. Well, let me tell you. I never learned Russian. You know? I I got the tapes, like but I never actually did it. Well, why didn't I? I didn't do it because I didn't tie it to anything in particular. I you know, looking back, if I would have said something more like, I want to learn Russian because I want to be able to keep my kids, you know, somewhat fluent or be able to communicate, if there was some kind of why behind it, I think that makes all the difference.
I didn't have that. I was just, like, kinda like the people that say on January 1st, I'm gonna start going to the gym. Well, you know you're not gonna keep going because you didn't have any why behind that. So I think if you could, like, think, okay. Maybe if you're an MSL and you want to be an MSL, director, then you need to think about what you would do in that role, and then you need to backpedal and figure out the skills that would help you get there.
And then what books, what, like you said, what podcast, what training could you do that would help you get to that point? But if you don't ever think of the why, you know, and the the actual, like, path, then, yeah, you're just gonna be, like, googling things and going from book to book and never really not, like, latch on to anything in particular. Yeah. I think that's great. I love that. So tie it to something.
Yes. Because if you tie it to something and you have this intention and there's a goal in mind for whatever it is that you're looking to learn, you know that I'm I have to apply this. I just committed myself because I tied it to this, and now my intention is to make it happen. I think that's awesome. Yeah. And I also wanna add, like, I think something that really when I was thinking through these this topic, I was thinking about the time of my life too.
And I think that, you know, especially for work working women, you know, and that's not the subject of this podcast, but I think that we have this idea that we can do all the things. Right? And we're just gonna go and be career women and be moms and do all these things. And I think that, you know, just throwing this out there to people too. Like, you can do all the things and, like, meet your goals, but probably not at the same time.
So even just putting it on a calendar and making some longer term goals. You know? I wasn't doing I wasn't on a podcast like this. We didn't have a podcast maybe. But, you know, 5 years ago because my kids were younger and, frankly, you know, I had to to place my goals and my plans at different stages. And then you can you know? So you might only have 10 minutes to read. Maybe you only can read 10 pages a day.
Maybe you just do little things at that time of your life, then later, you can do kind of the bigger things. Well and that it's I was just about to ask you about specific things that you've learned, read, listened to that maybe you can share with others. And you just mentioned, you know, take 10 minutes here, take an hour there. And you and I were both talking about the book, Atomic Habits, and how it's helped both of us and how much we're getting out of it. But that's a perfect example.
I mean, that book is so helpful, and it just shows you that if you could break things off into chunks Yes. And just assign a certain amount of time each day towards a task to better yourself, 1% each day or whatever your goals are, it over the course of time, you get that compound effect, and you could really make big change. You can really make a big difference.
So you kinda beat me to it because I was gonna ask you about some of the stuff you've been listening to and you've been been tuning into nowadays. But is there anything else? Like, when you think of MSLs, have you learned anything recently, read anything recently, or listened to anything recently that it's like, oh my god. You have to check this out. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like these are not necessarily the things that, again, will help you, like, scientifically. Right?
But I know you also just read High 5 Habit. Right? Oh, yeah. I think that's another really good one, and she also has the 5 second rule. So those are also by Mel Robbins. And I think if you listen to her, whether you listen to actually her books, read her books, or listen to her interviews on any kind of podcast, one of the things that she does so well is gets the message out that you have to just kinda start something before you feel confident in it.
And, you know, we're talking about learning, and I I truly believe, like, you should dive in and learn, you know, and be a deep learner. But you also can't just wait. You can't just wait until you're, like, the best presenter ever or you're the best, you know, podcaster ever or you're, you know, at know everything in this article before I can go talk to a KOL. And she's really good about just starting before you're ready.
Like, you that you can the confidence is generated from doing the things that you're not ready to do yet. You know? So sometimes you just have to step up and do it and just build that confidence along the way. So I highly recommend anything from Mel Robbins. The other one that I there's 2 others, I guess, that I like a lot that I'm listening to right now. 1 is, Jay Shetty on Purpose, his podcast.
I think he his, just ability to communicate and talk about whether it's building relationships with KOLs or someone in your life, whether it's dealing with difficult people, negotiating. He's got leadership episodes. You know, he has a lot of solo episodes. He actually was a monk for years. So he's got some just kind of wild out you know, just background, but it's fascinating. His book is called Think Like a Monk.
It's nothing religious, but, it's it's just kind of about thinking about everything on a deeper level. So I really like that book. I think that one's worth it or just his podcast on purpose. And then let's see. The I guess I'll also throw out I like Marie Forleo a lot. The book is Everything is Figureoutable, and that one really resonated with me during COVID. But, you know, we were kinda like, jeez. Now I gotta communicate with people in a different way.
I've gotta learn how to do, you know, more of these digital things. And, her book, you know, the title kinda tells you what it's about. Everything is figureoutable, and it talks about, you know, figuring things out and just getting diving in, just figuring you know, doing the things. One of the things I mean, I have to go back to what you said. I think that one of the biggest problems that we all have is we overthink everything.
Yes. And we put this fear in our minds of, you know, oh, I'm not gonna go for a run because I'm not ready. Well, you don't have to go for the best run that you ever had. Just lace your shoes up and start walking or start jogging and see where it takes you. And maybe the 1st day, it's not so good. But maybe the next day, it's a little bit better. And then the next day, it's a little bit better. And this kinda goes back to the atomic habits thing where you break things off into small pieces.
But the point of the matter is whatever it is that you're looking to do, whether it's a book, whether it's a podcast, whether it's a certification course. Mhmm. If you could just convince yourself to just start Yes. That is the one of the most important things because that's gonna take you to the 2nd day and the 3rd day and the 4th day. When I started this I'm I'm I can be or I used to be an overthinker. Mhmm. But when I started this podcast, I set some things up, and I was like, alright.
I'm just doing this. I'm just doing it. And if you listen to some of my earlier episodes, I kinda listen to them like I stunk. Mhmm. I was my speech was riddled with mistakes and ums and, you know, and over the course of time, I got better at it. And I think I'm a much different version of myself than I was. But if I never started it, I might never have. Mhmm. Yeah. I completely agree. Yep. And it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be this huge thing.
Like, you know, it doesn't have to be running a marathon or starting a podcast. It can just be this tiny like you said, lacing up your shoes. I if people haven't read Atomic Habits, I think you and I would both agree. Like, go get it. Because he even talks about, like, the act of driving to the gym. Like, this guy literally drove to the gym for I can't remember the the amount of days.
But for so many days that finally he just once he was like, well, if I'm gonna drive there, I might as well do something there. You know? It's just an act of doing something and putting yourself in in that those shoes. Well and and I love that example because the guy that drove to the gym, the goal he would drive to the gym, and he would spend 5 minutes there every day. That was it. He'd drive to the gym. He'd do a couple of push ups.
When the 5 minute mark came, he'd get back in his car and he would leave. Yes. And the idea is like, well, that's stupid. Why would anybody do that? But the idea is to get himself programmed and familiar with and used to going to the gym. That's right. And then, eventually, he apparently, he wound up, you know, making it a very serious thing, and and, you know, it worked out for him. So I just think that that analysis paralysis that we all go through when we're overthinking things can really be.
You can handle that, and you could remedy that by just taking the first step to doing whatever it is that you wanna do and see how it goes. Completely agree. Yeah. Yeah. The other book and we're talking about not that this was the reason for this podcast, but there's one other book that I I read recently and actually listened to it. It's called Peak Mind by Misha Shah. Okay. And so it's j h a is her last name.
And just like I did an episode on the high five habit because it had such a profound effect on me, and I thought that it was something worth sharing. I might do a solo episode on this book because it's all about focus. We all could use Yeah. This information to help us focus. And she breaks down techniques and tips on how to be how to redirect your mind, how to be more intentional, and how to really focus and be more present. And it's really, really good stuff.
And what I love about it is it's not highly scientific where it's just all research, but there's enough research in there that really gets you interested. So you should check that out too. I will. I will. Good recommendation. Yeah. So what else can you tell MSLs, aspiring MSLs, MSL leaders that are listening to this? You've obviously done very well with incorporating this into your day, incorporating this into your professional life.
But what else can you tell people on doing this as a practice to help your career and maybe even help your performance or your goals? Like, is there anything that you can kinda recommend? Yeah. I think the number one thing is, like, not making your performance something you look at, like, in December. And then, you know, in January, you write your plan. So that's, like, for the past you know, all my life, you know, that's kinda how the MSL like, your performance goes. Right?
Kinda like in December, all of a sudden, you rush to write your performance plan, the your objectives and stuff. So I would say, you know, if you use an electronic planner, that's fine, but I would take a paper planner separate or, you know, whatever some kind of Google Doc or something and track your progress throughout the year. One of the things I'm not sure if you follow Brendan or not or or not, but I I listened to a lot of his stuff.
And the thing he taught me was that you have to have you have to rate yourself. Like, the other part of being an MSL is that, like, no one's your your manager might come, you know, occasionally, but no one's with you. And a lot of times we get this feedback that you're doing great. You know? Like, everything is good and blah blah blah. You know? And you know in reality, like, there's a lot of things you could at level. Right? But we're not doing that on a daily or weekly or a monthly basis.
And so, I recommend his planner. It's a paper planner. It's called the Brendon Burchard high performance planner, I think. It's just on Amazon. It's not very expensive. But each day, actually, he has you rate yourself. And then at the end of the week, you rate yourself again. And then you, you know, you actually, like, make tangible things that you know, you're not gonna rate yourself 10 out of 10. You know?
So then you're actually looking at the things that you need to improve upon and figure out you can make a plan of how to do that. Right? But if you never rate yourself, you know, in relationships or in work or whatnot, you're never gonna get anywhere. So, you know, that's kind of the number one. And then the other thing that I think, you know, I didn't touch on is just your learning style.
So, you know, again, in school, like, we're we're for you know, we're brought all the learning and maybe as MSLs too, but we're never and we all most of us know, like, the 4 learning styles. Right? You're either auditory, visual, reading and writing, or a consent. So you know that, but then you don't really do anything with it. So I think just taking, like, a step back and thinking, like, which which predominant kind of learner am I?
And then am I, like, actually applying that and doing my stuff the right way? Like, I'm a I like to read, write. I like to write on stuff, which since I like podcast and Audible, doesn't necessarily make sense, but I'm more like you. Like, I like to have something I'm doing while I'm driving or working out. So I don't know. Just kinda, like, thinking about that and then making sure you're matching it up. And then the other question to ask yourself is, like, where do I learn the best?
And so is it you know, we're we're at home usually as well kind of a COVID, obviously. But, like, as MSL, it's like, if you don't learn the best at home, like, go to the coffee shop, go to the library. Like, you gotta set yourself up like that. Like, I used to not my kids were younger. I was always at the coffee shop because I couldn't focus at home. You know? And then I guess the final thing I'll add to that is just like, if you learn best in a group or individually.
And if you learn best in a group, you should be going to a group exercise class or signing up like for group presentation skills. You know, the most pharma companies have something like that. But if you learn more individually, then maybe books and podcasts are more for you. You know, those are the kind of things that I think about, when I think about learning and, like, how I I do it. And, certainly, like, you know, it's it has to become a habit.
Like, it's not something that I'm just like, oh, I'd rather read this book than Netflix. Right? But you just get you know, you make yourself do it, and then it just becomes a part of who you are. Totally. And I think that that goes back to some of the stuff we were talking about before. I mean, this is something that you really have to work at it. You you have to schedule it. You have to make time for it because there's so many other distractions.
And, yeah, I'd love to just binge on Netflix all the time. And I'm a big Netflix guy. I mean, I talk about it every once in a while in here. I do. But sometimes I'm like, alright, dude. You're like a loser. Stop now and do something. I need to be productive. I need to like, even when I'm at the gym and I'm working out, I'm listening to a podcast. I'm trying to learn something. If I'm in the car and I'm driving, I'm trying to learn something. I'm trying to help myself in some way.
But there are times when I just wanna unwind and not have to think, and I'll put Netflix on. But, you know, you gotta find that balance. I think it's like anything else. I agree. And I think then, you know, the neat part of it is it well, it's medical affairs or MSLs. Like, you'd be surprised at, like, what kind of conversations you can have with your KOLs that aren't necessarily related to, like, your drug. You know?
And, obviously, the company wants you to, you know, talk to the scientific, and that's all great. But, you know, sometimes they do wanna talk about technology or maybe the last book that they read, you know, and those kind of little things. And that's why I like social listening so much because you can kinda pick up those things and figure out maybe who would be more apt to have those kind of conversations. Right? And not just be like a stalker, but you know what I'm saying?
You know, and then you can build relationships faster too. I think that is helpful. Yeah. No. That's great advice. So tell let's talk about Clubhouse because I know that you're, a a Clubhouse user, and you've come on to the our MSL talk live on Clubhouse discussion. And we love having you on because you're obviously so natural.
And but tell if you could tell everybody what is Clubhouse and what how you use it, I think that that might be helpful because I think a lot of people don't know what Clubhouse is. Yeah. Yeah. So Clubhouse is social me it's a social media app. It's an actual app. It used to be just for iPhone users, Apple, but it's not for everybody. And it's live audio only sessions about all sorts of topics. So I'll give you an example, actually.
When I wanted to start the podcast, I just searched in podcast on Clubhouse and, like, there is, like, groups where you could just hop on and you could listen to people talk about how they started a podcast or how and and some of them, honestly, it can be a time suck, and you're kinda like but you can actually just quietly leave the room if it's not something that you can learn from or contribute. You know?
But it's it's literally pretty much, you know, any topic that you can imagine, whether it's health and fitness. I think it's a wonderful, place for MSLs to stay up on digital medicine. Like, we're not we don't learn about that. You know, there's actually like, every Sunday, there's a biotech clubhouse, chat where they just talk about the up and coming biotechs. They talk about a a lot of clinical trials, just the future of the future of clinical trials.
Like, clinical trials aren't gonna be the same in 5 years. You know? But if we just sit there and wait, you know, and not listen, then then we aren't gonna know and be up. You know? Maybe this doesn't and none of this applies to my job. Like, the I mean, not, like, directly. You know? But it's just, like, if you're interested in medicine and health care, the the, the amount of wisdom on there is phenomenal.
And then they also just have good chats about things like running, you know, parenting, you know, different things. So what you'll probably find on there is if you follow certain people, then you'll find, you know, clubs that you can join. And you're kinda like I said, I like to do the Sunday one. I like to you do yours, which is on Tuesdays. There's another medical affairs one on Fridays that I've gotten a lot of wisdom from. You know?
So you kinda find these ones that you go back to, but it's also just good. Like you said, you like to have something at the gym or in the car or, my gosh, while you're cleaning your house. There's no better time to do stuff like that. You know, just walking the dog. You can actually hop on a clubhouse and see, like, maybe you can connect with somebody that isn't, like, a KOL, but just a potential you know, who knows what your future's gonna hold. So I kinda like it.
I think it's a it's an interesting platform. Yeah. It's, you know, it's a you know, this discussion platform that you just get to have a conversation digitally. The only thing I don't like about it is it's not video, which everybody's so used to video nowadays. And but, actually, that's kinda cool too, because you can just kinda be a little bit anonymous, and it's not recorded. So a lot of people that listen to MSL talk live Yeah. When they miss it, they're like, how do I get a recording?
I'm like, sorry. You gotta kinda tune in. So, we're we're gonna keep doing it. It's, just a quick plug. It's it's the first Tuesday of every month, at 1:30 PM EST if you wanna check it out. I am thinking about maybe changing it a little bit and doing it on LinkedIn. Yeah. So would it be LinkedIn live Yeah. Which would be video. And it's recorded. Recorded. Yeah. So that might be the next iteration of the MSL talk live discussion, but, it's check it out. It's awesome. Sarah's on all the time.
Julie Chen's my cohost. She's amazing. So, we're gonna keep doing it. And it's definitely a way to learn really good information. What about last question. What about TikTok? Do you go on TikTok at all? No. No? Oh my god. I I no. I don't do TikTok at all. My kids do. So, I, yeah, I actually don't even have the app on my phone. But that's great. I yeah. No. I I'm obsessed with TikTok. Well, here's the thing. The thing you have to know about TikTok Yes. Is you have to self direct it.
Yeah. Because if you don't, you're gonna wind up just getting a bunch of people dancing around on your screen that you're not gonna have any interest in. Yeah. And what I mean by self directing it is you search on what you're interested in. Yeah. Yeah. You search on what you're interested in. You look you you know, maybe like or follow the content that you're interested in, and then it's gonna set the algorithm to show you that.
So when you go to your home screen and you're just looking at videos that are coming to you, it's gonna follow the algorithm that you set. And if you don't like on any given day, sometimes I'm like, wait a minute. What is going on? Why am I getting these crazy videos? Sometimes the algorithm gets out of whack. You just go through the search. Like, I might go to the search and type in, you know, the topic might be interview tips.
Yeah. I wanna see what people are saying about interview tips because that's some of the stuff that I do. And then all of a sudden, the next couple days, all you're getting is people that are talking about interview tips. Uh-huh. No. Just a little bit of advice, but I could tell you this, and this is my prediction. Tom Carabello said it's December 1st of of 2021. TikTok is gonna surpass all other social media platforms in the next 5 years. You watch. Yeah. I I believe it.
I don't know if you ever listened Gary v, but he's been saying that for a couple years, and I'm like, I just haven't gotten on it. But yeah. There's no doubt. And the reason why Yeah. Is because we are a society of instant gratification. Yes. That's true. We want visual now. Yeah. We want it short to the point. We wanna just boom. We wanna have it out there. And that's what TikTok is, and that's what it does. So, yeah, that's that's my prediction. But any final words?
I know we're getting a little you know, getting to the end of it here. So any other words of advice? Because you're awesome, and I know that you probably have one other thing up your sleeve. No. The only thing I I can think of is just based on what you just said, and that was, like, how you're using TikTok, but you're not just on TikTok. So, like, you're using it strategically. And I think that's where people are getting caught up.
Like, I did a little Twitter for really quick couple weeks ago, and I was like, do you use Twitter? And they're like, no. You know? Like, half the people don't use Twitter as MSLs. And I'm like, no. I don't mean you're just using Twitter to, like, post what you had for breakfast or, like, follow you know? Right?
It's it's very strategic and search oriented just like you would, like, PubMed or, like, having a literature search, you know, about your drug or about the disease state and, you know, things like Twitter lists. Like, if you go to a conference, you should have a Twitter list with all the people that you wanna follow for that conference. It's super easy.
It takes you 5 minutes to create it, and then you can just go to that list and see for that conference, you know, the the stuff that you wanna see. But it's if you if you do just endlessly scroll TikTok, then, yeah, it's wasting time, and it's probably, you know, just not a good value.
But I think if you can use all these tools and figure out a strategy I mean, sometimes it does take a little while to figure out the strategy, but it's worth it in the end to put up the little time and same with LinkedIn. You put the time in it then upfront, and it will pay off. So I think that's kinda yep. Great piece of last advice. I love it. So, Sarah, thanks so much for Thank you. Being a great partner and and for constantly helping us out and coming on here. You're awesome.
And, we're gonna do this again. I'm sure we will. You'll be hearing from me. I'll be like, Sarah, how about this? Thanks for all that you do. So and if you guys didn't listen to that gratitude episode he put out a few weeks ago around Thanksgiving, just make sure to do that one because I think that one is one of the things that we just forget to do really resonated well with me. So thanks. Awesome. Alright. I appreciate that. Okay. Alright. Talk soon. Yep. Bye bye.
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