Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Shannon Colton. She is a medical affairs trainer and consultant, and we talk about how important it is to identify and develop your MSL superpowers. So great conversation. I think you guys are gonna enjoy this. Don't forget to check us out on YouTube and follow me on LinkedIn, and check us out on MSL talk live, which is the 1st Tuesday typically of every month, and that is on the LinkedIn live platform. So thanks for joining us.
Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSL's and all things field medical. Hey, Shannon. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me. Thank you, Thomas. This is gonna be a fun talk, so I'm looking forward to it. Totally. It's totally gonna be a fun talk. And let me so just to set the tone so that our listeners know how this came about.
So Shannon and I ran into each other at mass east and we she did an amazing she actually was involved in in the conference, but did an amazing session that I sat in on. And somehow this concept or the idea, I don't know how it came about, but she had mentioned doing a podcast on MSL Superpowers, which I haven't done before. I think it's an amazing topic. So that's what we're gonna do. You guys are in for a treat.
Before we go there, Shannon, why don't you introduce yourself, where you're from, and and and all that good stuff? Great. I will do so. So my name is Shannon Colton. I am a PhD biologist by training.
Spent the first half of my career in science education outreach, and the second half of my career has been within the pharmaceutical industry, largely within medical affairs, specifically more within training, specifically training around the medical affairs team, the field team that's out talking to the providers.
And about a year ago, I started my own company to help focus me on doing what I love to do, which is to train and to coach people and to get them excited about their roles, but also elevate them in their ability to communicate science and to engage with their providers. And that's what brings me here today. And, guys, Shannon is really good at it because, like I said, I attended some of her sessions and some of her talks, and she's just really, really good at the training piece. I can tell you.
And I really thoroughly enjoyed, you know, your all of your insights and and the stuff that you shared. And I love this idea. So let's let's jump into it. Like, how did you start to go about identifying and have MSLs recognize their superpower? So it started with me googling around because I was gonna be doing some workshops, and I like to start workshops, especially with me as a consultant coming in as a way to get to know people.
And so I wanted to do a fun icebreaker just to get people thinking and sharing a little bit about themselves. And I came across a post that talked about having everybody create a trading card, like a baseball card, and putting on some information. And I started thinking about it, coupled to other conversations I've had where I love to ask questions. And so I jokingly have said for years that curiosity is my superpower because I feel like it's gotten me very far by asking all my questions.
So I thought about combining that element of, oh, what's your superpower on this trading card so that we were all superheroes, you know, like the Marvel Universe or something. And so I've created this little, like, icebreaker activity to get people to take a, like, a quarter sheet of paper and draw a picture of them and to identify, like, what's their superpower? What do they bring to the team?
What is the one thing that they feel like they do really, really, really well and helps them be a better team member or a better MSL or whatever the the better is. So what is that superpower that really resonates within you? It's so funny because I think it's an amazing idea. I think it's a great concept. I love the trading card idea. As you're talking, I'm thinking about, what would my trading card look like? I'm trying to picture myself on a trading card. Right? Because I was a kid.
I loved, like, baseball collecting baseball cards and doing that whole thing. So I'm thinking like, okay. Well, what picture would I use? And what would it say? What would the caption be? Like, what's my brand? So is that the idea is to get people to think of their brand and think of what they bring to the table and what their batting average is and why they're so special? And just really relying on, like, what is it that you do that makes you an effective MSL?
Because we know that to be a successful MSL, there's a whole host of skills that you really need to hone and work on, and it's not just one thing that makes you amazing. It's a combination of things. But what makes each individual a really good MSL may vary depending on your personality, your background, your experiences that you've had. And so really highlighting what your strength is gets you thinking about what is it that I do?
What is it that I can bring to the table that makes me really good at my job? And if you've got a younger team, is it something that you could help mentor other team members with? Or if you feel like you're missing an area, but another team member said, I have this great skill, is it an opportunity for you to collaborate with that individual and really hone your own skills?
So really identifying a lot of different things, but recognizing that what you bring to an interaction may be unique to you. And that's what makes you an amazing MSL. You mentioned curiosity being your superpower. So what are some of the other ones? What are what are some of the other skills and superpowers that you see in MSLs that we should probably talk about? Well, I've had this conversation with a bunch of people, and it's always interesting to me.
I have yet to have someone come back to me with the exact same phrasing of something. They may mean something similar, but a little bit of a different variation or a nuance. So everything from, like, well, I know my science really well. And that's an easy one to kinda lean into with an MSLs because, you know, we're kinda science nerds. We all love to dig into the data.
But some people will come back and say, well, I really understand, you know, the safety because I was a clinician for a while, and I know that that's really important. And so we have a really good understanding there. Or somebody might come back and say that they collaborate really well with their commercial team members, and that's a skill set that really can be honed across the board for everybody.
Or I've had people come back and say I'm really good at being sociable and connecting and building that rapport with providers, which we feel is really crucial as you're establishing those relationships or growing your relationships over time.
And I've had people come back and say that they're they feel empathic in a way as they're having conversations because they can empathize deeply with their providers, and that helps them set up additional questions that they may ask or probe a little bit differently into an area because they have that connection with the providers. But I think the list can be, you know, huge.
We we've talked a lot about what skills are necessary for an MSL to have and communication skills, being resilient, being able to commute, articulate that information. All of those things could eventually be someone's superpower if that's what they feel is like their key contribution that they make. Yeah. These are great. So you started with curiosity yourself, science, safety, collaborative, sociable, empathetic, just to name a few.
So would you say that the the way to identify your superpower is to come up with a word that describes you or your your a special MSL skill the best. Is it as simple as that? I think it can be. You can make it as simple or complex. I have also had people tell me that their super strength is that they have the ability to tell the medical story, which is more words than just, you know, communication, but narrows it down to just the one attribute that they feel that they really do strongly.
But I think it's it's important for us to really think about what is it that I do as an MSL, but what is it that I do really well that gets me that next meeting or enables me to be that trusted scientific partner or, you know, allows me to be their go to person when they've got questions. They don't go to the competitor MSL. They come to me to discuss things. So that's that underlying skill set that you just that's your superpower.
That's what makes everybody excited to be around you when you're having those conversations. Yeah. It makes sense. It makes sense. So why is this important, and how are people using this? So why is it important?
I think for us, a lot of times, especially if you get caught in the day to day, we may forget what our skill strengths really are, especially if you've been doing the same conversations or, you know, you may be a little travel weary or, you know, maybe you're a little frustrated because you haven't been able to secure the next meeting kind of a thing. But we all do this for a reason. And what's that reason? What do you get excited about? Where's your passion? What's your purpose?
What's your excitement? And oftentimes, those two questions are kind of linked. You know, that super skill that you have, that superpower may also be linked to, you know, what's your why? What's your reason for doing what you do? And I think that that makes it super important for us to evaluate and to remember what it is that we're doing and why we're doing it. But then also, how do I use that skill for whatever the next thing is?
So if you're looking for a promotion or a different opportunity, or you're looking to grow a certain skill skill set yourself, how do you use that? How do you use your superpower in order to elevate you to that next space? Yeah. I think I think it's, so it reminds me a little bit. I did a an a solo episode, podcast episode on how to lead with your strengths, but develop your weaknesses.
That's very, very similar because I talk about a lot of these concepts, talk about how important it is to know what your goals are, have passion, know what drives you. So it's it's similar. But as we talk to identifying your superpowers and your strengths and utilizing them, like, where where do people what challenges are people faced with? Are there mistakes that people make, by either doing this or not doing it? Is it a mistake not to do this?
I think that one of one of the biggest things that I look for when I'm talking with MSLs in terms of, you know, are they gonna be successful, is do they have that growth mindset? Do they have that ability to grow, to learn, to not stay stagnant, to not feel like, oh, I've learned everything. It's it's fine. It's all good. But to seek out those opportunities to grow oneself.
So if you can identify like, if you have a strong skill, like like, just using mine as an example, that curiosity piece, that is great for being in an MSL, but it also can be applied to so many different things. And having that skill underlying everything that you're doing can kinda help drive you forward into the next piece of it. And if you connect that passion, that purpose in what's driving you, that can also help individuals determine what is next.
If I wanna continue to be passionate about clinical care, what are my opportunities? What can I continue to do? What are what are possible roles that I could pursue? So I think it's important for us to always envision, you know, what are we good at? What are our strengths? Where are the gaps? What can we do?
So you can leverage both the the good, the the strengths that you have, but then also continue to learn and to grow and to develop so that you are not staying stagnant and that you're moving constantly towards that growth and progress and moving outside of your comfort zone a little bit to explore different opportunities. Yeah. I love it. So now you let's say you develop this awareness and you start to recognize this superpower. How can you apply that? Or how does this awareness help the team?
And how can it help others? So if you can identify what your strength is, one of my favorite things within an MSL team is to share best practices. So if you've got an amazing way to reach out and connect with providers in a virtual world to secure that next meeting, that's a strength, and that is something that you could share with team members to help them become better at it.
Or if you've got a particular project that you're working on, if you're, like, you know, one of the work streams that they have MSLs participate in and your super strength is collaboration with the commercial team, how do you implement that? How do you use that? How do you make that your strong suit so that it benefits the team on whole?
You know, could it be helping to establish better relationships across the board, not just with you and your commercial partners, but with other members of your team? So there's all these great opportunities that you can use it to help benefit the team.
And I think the other bit I love about having a really nice, diverse team when it comes to different strengths, different years within role, different experiences, is that those who have a set of skills, they can mentor other people, help grow those newer MSLs within their roles, but then also they can learn from one another.
And so you're just helping that team dynamic over time building, you know, the relationships between the team members, but then also helping individuals grow within their spaces too. Gotcha. So then what what would you say as a trainer as a medical first trainer, what do you hope people take away from this exercise? Couple of things. 1, elevate your own self awareness to recognize what you are good at.
Sometimes we get caught up in what we're not so good at and focusing on how do I develop this area that I'm not as strong in. That's the feedback we tend to focus on, right, when people tell us these are your gaps. But sometimes we do really need to remind ourselves that we're good at some things, and we need to continue to grow and to develop in those areas as well so that we can leverage those strengths. So building that self awareness, I think, is critical.
I think the second piece to it is that when we talk about being in pharma, things change on a regular basis. Right? We talk about the only constant is change. Recognizing what your strengths are can help you navigate through those uncertain times or the times when things aren't going quite as well as we would like them to.
And so being able to identify what my strengths are in times of, you know, good, the the equilibrium, everything is good, so that when you do shift into more of an uncertain space, you can lean a little bit more into that strength to help you go through a a particularly tough spot or a rough day or a tough meeting, depending on whatever the scope of time is. Love it.
You know, I think I think for for my part, understanding your strengths, being aware of this, having this awareness should translate into confidence. You should be more confident knowing that you you've got the goods. You have superpowers. You have really good skills. You have strengths, and you're utilizing them both internally and externally. And you're on your way to being a kick ass MSL for lack of a better explanation. So I think confidence in my mind is always, always important.
Do you agree do you agree with that? Yeah. I think confidence is crucial. You can be the smartest person in the room and know how to communicate your science. But if you get into the HCP's office and you're talking to your providers and you kind of start to second guess yourself or you you're in your head too much, then, yeah, that doesn't translate well.
But if you can go into the office or the meeting that you're having with that confidence, because you know you've got the skill set behind you or this knowledge behind you, then you're gonna come across as being that much more approachable, that much more engaging, that much more, you know, open to these conversations so that you can have really deep and meaningful conversations with the provider so that you're bringing value to them,
and then you can bring that value back to the company as part of what you're doing. And then when when we look at that, as you're talking about bringing that value to the external stakeholder and value internally, like, is this really a value play? Is this a way that by MSL's doing this, they become more valuable? This is a is this a a values play in in such a way? We always hear that term. We always hear the term, how important it is to show your value. Is does this go hand in hand with that?
I think so. It's one of those virtuous circles, right, where you think about what is it that I do well, and how does that then translate? So it could be a confidence thing. It could be an engagement piece where you're like, I've got this. I know what I'm doing, and so you have a really good meaningful dialogue. And then you bring back some really cool medical insights back into the company, so you show that value piece.
And I think your question's a good one from a standpoint of, oftentimes, new to role MSLs question the value of what they're doing out in the field. They're uncertain. Like, I go in and I talk science. That's it. That's all I have to do. Where's the value? What am I bringing?
And so understanding the role, understanding how you contribute in that space and what your strengths are can help you realize what those values are that you actually do bring for the company and for the provider, both that internal and external engagement component. Yeah. Well, it's funny when you mentioned that. It's what what jumped into my head is there are a lot of MSLs that have imposter syndrome. I talk to them all the time. So like you said, is this this is it?
Like, you know, this is all I have to do. Well, they're second guessing or wondering, or maybe they don't think they have a superpower, or they second guess their superpowers. So what do you say to MSLs that feel like they don't have a seat at the table yet, or they feel like they don't have a superpower, or they feel like they have impostor syndrome? Said impostor syndrome. It's a sneaky devil, isn't it? It comes up everywhere with everybody at some point in their career.
And and I've had those conversations with MSLs as well. And I think one of the best things that I can do for them is to sit and talk and listen to what they have to say. And the longer I can work with MSLs, the more easy it is for me to identify, you know, what are those strengths. But I think for them, they also have to have that exploration and understanding. And so sometimes just having the conversation with them to talk about, you know, what is it that you're good at?
What do you really enjoy? What is something that you do within your meetings that you find so easy or just comes naturally, or it's it gives you that rush of satisfaction because you were able to do something really well. And when you have those conversations with individuals, they often can come up with something.
They may think it's a small thing, but it often can be a lot bigger when they start to really explore it and identify it and to really put it into perspective to see that just because your you think your your attribute is really small, doesn't mean that you're not having an impact elsewhere.
You know, if you're somebody who thinks that, well, I'm really good at having that small talk upfront at the beginning of a meeting where you're kind of chit chatting a little bit beforehand, that may not seem super meaningful to everyone. But those providers on the other side who really appreciate that and take that time to go through and do it value it, and it helps to establish that relationship so that you could have an easier conversation.
And I know people who struggle with that little small talk at the beginning of meetings, and they wanna hop right in to a deep dive of the mechanism of action or something without laying sort of those initial foundational conversations. So those skills can be envied by somebody else. Even if it's a small thing or a big thing, it's still your super strength. It's still the power. And it's what you do with that that makes the difference. What are you using that power for?
How are you using it to really make sure that you are having the most effective meeting that you can? Yeah. You know, and it reminds me I don't know why, but it brings me to this I I recently read something or heard something, about how to avoid burnout. And in this day and age, everybody's working so hard. We're back out in the field now, and there's a lot of pressure. And and you hear the term burnout.
And one of the things that has been brought up is that one of the ways to avoid burnout or to get yourself out of that is to focus on the things that you're good at. Focus on the things that you wanna do more of and things that you feel comfortable with. So I kinda feel like being in touch with your superpower, understanding your strengths, and knowing what you're good at can help you to avoid burnout because you wanna focus on places where you have energy.
Your superpowers and and what you're skilled at and what you're good at shouldn't be an energy drainer. You should have the energy to do those things. The things that burn you out are things that are pulling energy from you. They're draining your energy, and they're burning you out. So what do you say about that? Am I crazy by saying this, or is there a good parallel here? Am I on to something? I think you're onto something. It's I mean, it makes sense.
We talk a lot about how you need to keep your energy levels high enough, and you can only give so much. So if you haven't taken care of yourself, you're not gonna be able to give anything else. Right? I we've had many people over the years say that you can't pour from an empty cup. So if you are burnt out and you don't have that energy, you're not gonna be able to do your job. You're not gonna be able to interact with people effectively, etcetera.
And I I like what you've raised here in terms of finding what you're excited about and what makes you energized, and where can you draw that energy so that you are replenishing that on a regular basis. And if your superpower is you like to ask a lot of questions and find out what people are thinking, then find that opportunity to do that so that you can fill that part of you so that you are empowered, ready to go.
You've got the energy levels to deal with some of the other things that may not be as much fun. I love that. You can't pour from an empty cup. That's gonna be your quote of the podcast. But you know what I love about that is is we're talking about filling your own cup and and using your superpower to to build fill your cup and build yourself up. But don't forget that when you fill someone else's cup, there's there's something you get from that. There's an energy that you get from that.
So how important is it for people to use their superpower to help others, and what do they get from that? Yeah. And I think that goes back to the comment about best practice sharing. Right? If you are someone who can share why your super strength is so amazing and wonderful in an HCP environment and you can share that with other people, then and people get excited, that's invigorating back on yourself because it it kind of provides a lot more confidence in yourself too.
So if someone says to you, wow, that's amazing. I never would have thought of engaging with a provider that way or, well, that's a really awesome email that you just sent and it secured you your next meeting. I'm gonna try that. Like, that's invigorating. That's exciting.
That's that reaffirming that you know what you're doing and helps to kinda push that imposter syndrome we talked about, kind of back off into the corner to say, no, I do know what I'm doing, and this is gonna help me continue to do what I do really well and also perhaps motivate me to want to continue to develop some other area so that I can build out more super strengths and have that skill set ready for me when I'm ready to engage with other meetings. So let's talk about the future.
I always like to look into the future a little bit and wanna get your advice on where you think see things going for MSLs. And what are the future superpowers that MSLs need to start to develop? Future superpowers. I think that that ability to communicate science with a context around it. So call it the storytelling, communicating the scientific narrative, whatever phrasing you wanna use.
We live in such an information rich environment where we literally have access to data point after data point after data point by typing a few words into a search bar. The value the MSL brings is they bring it the context, the why is this important? Why is this relevant to what you're doing in your clinical space? We can all read papers. We can all read posters, but the MSL brings that value add by being able to put it into context.
So having that ability to communicate effectively and using that narrative, that storytelling, that design, I think is super, super important, especially as you start to compete with so many other places, whether it's new therapies in the market or new companies that are coming in or you have to compete for time with their provider, you need to be able to bring that value in that piece.
We're all, as humans, hardwired for stories, so it's an opportunity to really engage with your provider in that way. The second thing that I would really go back to, again, it's just that resiliency of being able to roll with changes, to find opportunity when things may not be going quite your way, because that's gonna really impact what you do with your career down the road, whether it's staying within the MSL role or moving in house or taking on a leadership role.
All of that, all those great skills that feed into resiliency are just gonna help you become that much more qualified as a candidate or that much stronger in your role, and so really building in that space. So those are the 2 that I would say are probably gonna be really important over the next couple of years. Really good, especially the first one. I think the first one is so important, you know, because you could have said anything.
You could have said, oh, well, people need to get better with technology and artificial intelligence. And you know what? I'm so glad you didn't say that. I'm glad that you said really focus on the, you know, the relationship and the value that you bring and being that conduit because the more you do that is more proof that the MSLs of the future are not gonna be replaced by machines. I've had people say to me recently, well, you know, the MSL job eventually is just gonna be replaced by robots.
It's gonna be replaced by artificial intelligence because all KOLs are gonna need to do in HCPs is they're just gonna go in front of their computer, and they're just gonna type a question and into, you know, whatever it is, any art whatever artificial intelligence tool it is at the time, and they're gonna get all the information that they need.
But there's no replacement for that human interaction, for that nuance, for the value, for the question be able to to solve problems and answer questions and, ultimately, help the HCPs treat the patient. It's not an exact science. Yeah. If it were, then then MSOs would have been placed replaced a long time ago. That's how I feel. Do you agree with that? Only a place for all those upcoming technologies.
I mean, I've had different experiences using the AI pieces, and I think there's definitely a role for it. But I think at the end of the day, this is still a really important dynamic that you have human being to human being to really ensure that our providers, who are people, who are treating people, can still have those kind of dialogues, those conversations, and really understanding what's at the heart of some of their concerns, or where do we wanna go in the future?
Like, what's still on the answer? Like, that part of it, I think, is still very humanistically driven. So if you know, I didn't answer with the AI piece of it, but largely because I see it as a tool and we'll be using it. But I think that we still, as humans, still need that ability to communicate. And until that completely goes away, which I don't see ever going away, that's still gonna be super paramount to the successful MSL. Well, I agree. And MSLs aren't going anywhere.
You guys have the best job in the world, so keep doing what you do. So, Shannon, let's leave it there. This was awesome. Great conversation. Oh, thanks, Tom. Great questions. Always fun to talk about this stuff. Well, curiosity is your superpower, but it is also something that I have to have as podcast host. But this was awesome. Thank you for coming on, and let's do this again sometime. Great. Thanks, Tom. Alright. Thanks, guys, for listening. Don't forget to share the show.
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