Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSL and all things field medical. Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, Tom. Special guest today. So I have my very own Sarah Snyder, who's an MSO recruiter on my team at the Carolyn Group, and Katrina Pellet, who is MSL or medical affairs excellence lead at MSO Mastery. These guys are my partners in crime in MSO Mastery. We'll get to that in a second. Quick announcement.
Guys, do not forget to sign up for AI in medical affairs. It's a conference coming up January 28th 29th. That's in Philadelphia. For more information, go to aimedicalaffairs.com. Go to my LinkedIn. There's a link in there. And if you type in the code MSL 15, you get 15% off. And this episode's also sponsored by MSL Mastery, and I have my 2 partners in crime in MSL Mastery. So, Katrina, how great is are things going right now?
Didn't we just, like 14 of our members just got MSL positions through their through our programs. Is that accurate? Actually, Tom, I think it was 15. Okay. So 50? It's been really incredible. For those of you that aren't aware of the Aspire MSL program, this is a point and shoot program to help aspiring MSLs land their first role, and it is incredible in terms of all the content.
It has an online course as well as a ton of group coaching where Sarah and Tom come in hot and give unbelievable tips. You guys, the tips are so good that I'm texting other people outside that are not MSLs with these tips. I'm like, oh my gosh. You gotta do this tip lead LinkedIn tip from Sarah. Sarah, what would you add? Well, I think that you hit everything, Katrina. I came on last night's call with my Santa hat, so I was really excited about that. I think that we have a lot of fun.
And the number one reason I think that people quit or don't lay into their MSL job dream dream job is that they just they get so frustrated, and it's a lonely job search. So I think we've added that component, and we come in, and we just have a good time when we have live coaching calls. People have been so open and honest and hardworking. And when you surround yourself with those kind of people, you just can't lose. Well, guys, we're excited.
I don't mean to take up all this time on the podcast, but we're just really excited about all of the progress, and success that our our members are having, and I I can't thank Katrina and Sarah enough for all their hard work. So we are gonna talk about today's topic is the top five frustrations for MSLs and how to overcome them.
And this information, just so you guys know, is gonna be based on, a survey that was done that we did, and just feedback that we're getting from MSLs that we're working with in coaching and, people that have come on this podcast. So why don't we start with go let's go through the top five frustrations, and start with Mhmm. What's number 1. So, Sarah, do you wanna start with what is the number 1 MSL frustration that you're seeing? This one's so easy to say. It's definitely at the top of the list.
It's access to KOLs. And when I say access, it's getting the appointment. But then when you do get the appointment, it's actually time with the KOL. So it's hard enough to even get a response to an email and get the time. But also when you get the time, then you show up, you travel from whatever state you're in 3 states over, and then all of a sudden they only have 5 minutes for you.
And I think that's the biggest frustration that you have done all of this learning in your PhD, PharmD, PA, NP program, and then you've done all your training as a new MSL and you get there and you don't even get to have a conversation, or you just feel like you can't develop the relationship if you can't get access to the person you're trying to meet with. Katrina, what do you think? Yeah. This is one of the top things that new MSLs reach out to me about.
I get messages almost every day exactly along the lines of what Sarah said. It's so frustrating to have this great scientific knowledge. And a lot of people think that when they become an MSL, that the KOLs will be lining up the door to talk to them. And they're really shocked when this is not the case. So 100%, having the same experience that you and Sarah are having, Tom. Well and I'll I'll tell you. I just did a podcast on this Mhmm.
On KOL Access Mhmm. And, with Carson Snotwinkle and Gina Cooper, and it was awesome. And I have to give a shout out to Archie Stone because it was his idea. He brought that idea to me at Mass West. Archie's awesome. So Yes. Shout out to him. But definitely check out that episode, and we're gonna talk about how to overcome KOL access issues in a in a minute. But let's talk about what would what would you say, like, the number 2 frustration might be? You want me to start with that one too, Tom?
Yeah. Go ahead. I'll give that one a crack because I actually just talked to a hiring manager today who is sharing with me some of the frustration that 2 of his MSLs have that their brand's spanking new. They started 3 months ago. So they're entering the time where they've gotta do what's called their certification at their company. So this is when you get done with your training. Some companies have you do a final checkout presentation. There's some type of an assessment.
And he said they're struggling, and it's information overload. And I asked him, what what is the what what do they have to deliver? What are we talking about here? 262 slides, okay, are in the deck. I said, 262 slides. What do you guys do? You take all the aims. Like, well, it's a 2 and a half hour conference call. And we sit there and they deliver the slides and I thought, okay. You guys might or the the you know, we can talk about what the issues are here, but it's information overload.
This is so much information. That's the therapeutic side of it. And I know that we have one of our Aspire members that was saying too on the other the compliance end of it. All of a sudden, you have all these compliance modules coming at you. So this is just information, information, information. Katrina? I need that. I totally agree. It's it is literally like drinking from a fire hose.
It is so much, and it's also a really big shock for a lot of folks that transition into the role to realize that you really have to manage your own time. Right? So how do you do everything that's expected of you and absorb all this information? I don't know if that's, like, sneaking in on one of the other 5, but, hopefully, we have time to talk about time management too later. You and your time management, you are like It's a thing. Yeah. It is a thing. Alright. So number 3. What's number 3?
You already started it, so take that one. Mhmm. Oh, well, I think number 3 is actually role clarity. Right? Oh. I think, Sarah, you as well get a ton of outreach with questions like, am I doing a good job? Am I doing the right thing? And so Mhmm. I think either I've been thinking deeply a lot about this recently, and I have an article coming up on how leaders can communicate KPIs and metrics to MSLs. But where is this gap?
Like, why do do MSLs feel so uncertain about what they should be doing in the field and knowing if they're doing a good job? Sarah, what would you add on to this? I like that one. I think you're hitting it because I think it's like, am I doing when you said am I doing enough, like, how do I know if I'm doing it enough? I remember, guys, this is a funny story, but when I was first in MSO and I had the schedule where you are building your own time, etcetera, and I had did a lot of dinner programs.
And I thought, well, can I go to the gym, like, over my lunch hour? Is that allowed? Like, can I do this schedule or is that weird? You know? Or should I be available all day long to take in case a physician calls me, like, what is my schedule supposed to look like? What if I work a weekend or a medical conference? When I come back, what what should I be doing right away? Like, all of that, that role clarity, I like that term. Yeah. And it's it's lonely in the field.
Like, when you're field based Yes. You're detached, which makes it more difficult because when you're in an office, you could get up and talk to one of your coworkers and be like, hey. Is it cool if I do this? Or, you know, what's the fastest way to get to the bathroom? Like, when you're new Mhmm. And you're in an office, you can ask people questions. But when you're out in the field, you it's just it's lonely in the field, and you just have to kinda figure some things out on your own.
What are we on? Number 4? Yep. I think so. Alright. Sarah, you go. Sarah, let's let Sarah go on this one. Yeah. I think we can go with impostor syndrome here. All of a sudden, you're surrounding yourself with everybody is really, really smart, high performers.
This is big, especially if you're a new team member on a team that's already established and you're a brand new MSL and you're coming in and it's gonna be the imposter syndrome is gonna be even bigger than it would be if you're a new MSL joining, like, a a new team build. Then it's a little bit easier, Tom. And since you mentioned the loneliness factor, I think same with that.
If you're joining a team where it's this new team building, everybody's starting together, there's more people that are going through training with you, and you can rely on each other. Hey. What do you think about this? But if you're the one that's a backfill or is, you know, a brand new role that is an add on, that is where I think it gets even harder. Good one.
Mhmm. Yeah. We just published an article on the MSL Mastery blog on how to thrive as a new MSL, and we called this imposter syndrome 2.0. So what we see a lot of helping all these aspiring MSLs, that there is a lot of imposter syndrome already going on. Right? We get a lot of questions. Can I do this? Am I qualified? But then when they actually land the role, it skyrockets even more for all of the reasons that Sarah outlined as well.
And so this is, I think, a really big challenge for a lot of new MSLs. And I also did a podcast on impostor syndrome because Of course. Such well, it's just it's such a big thing, and I hear about it all the time. It's just Mhmm. It's it really is so common. It's a solo episode. It's from a while ago, so you gotta kinda dig to find it, but I get a lot of comments on it. A lot of people are like, oh my god. That was so great. Anyway, what so let's go to number 5.
Let's and is I guess this might be the last one. We said top 5, but we might have a bonus one too. But what's the 5th one? Sarah, what is the 5th one? I don't remember. Communication challenge. It's you know all your information. You have now gone through your certification, or if you don't have that, you're just ready to go. And you know the data, but you don't necessarily completely have how to translate the so what to the KOL yet.
Yeah. And we've even received some feedback from new MSLs that they they told us something like, my manager is telling me that I'm data dumping. Yep. Right? So this is exactly a communication presentation issue. Mhmm. And a lot of times, it's a big shock for, especially, PhDs like me where you're used to giving a certain type of presentation, and that's what ex is expected.
Now you've gotta basically unlearn that and flip it on its head and really change your communication and presentation style. Mhmm. Tom, I I told Katrina this story the other day, but when I was in new MSO, I got a my very first question about using a product off label, and I was so I can remember this. I was so excited. I go home. I do my literature search. I check our internal databases, found a lot of information for this particular physician.
I remember going back to him, and I had, like, 12 different abstracts. And I was like, I won't say the doctor's name, but it was in Indianapolis. He was really, really kind. And I'm like, here's all the stuff I found. You did that. And he was like, I'm gonna give you a little advice. You know, that's a bad sign. Right? He's like, you know, I know that you're you're relatively new.
You know, we're building this relationship, but he told me, you know, hey, you need to come back with a little bit more tailored information. And I was like, oh, okay. He like, it's not more isn't better here. They're looking for the answer that matters to them, not necessarily all the information, and then they can I mean, obviously, they've gotta make the decision, and they have to analyze the data themselves? But, really, you gotta be able to deliver the so what. Awesome. Alright.
And so that's that's the top five. Is there between you said something about a bonus one. Did you wanna throw your time management thing in there? Oh, okay. Time management. As I already said, it's it's a shock, especially what we are seeing with clinicians, practicing clinicians that transition over. Right? You have pretty structured days where you're seeing a lot of patients back to back, and then all of a sudden, you are in charge of your own schedule.
So if you combine that with some imposter syndrome, some lack of role clarity Mhmm. Then you really don't know what you're doing, or you really feel like you don't know what you're doing and how to manage your time. The little story, a new MSL recently told me that he's loving the 2:30 PM naps. He thought this was a huge bonus because he was working in the pharmacy all day, and he was like, these 2:30 PM naps are legit. Oh. What? Okay. What are you in in, you know, preschool? Go to yeah.
Oh, sounds great to me. You won't bet. You're a hippie. That's why. Oh, come on. You think all hippies like naps? Yeah. Me and Sarah work in triple sessions. There's no naps for overachievers. We don't naps. Oh, please. The overachievers rest the hardest. Right? They're, like, the best at napping. Well, I'll tell you one thing. True. Like, I work my freaking ass off. And when it's come when it comes time to, like, go to sleep, like, it's You go to sleep. Oh, yes. I'm I'm out. Mhmm. Just yeah.
It's like Dead to the world. Yeah. Sorry for that visual. But, alright. Let's let's recap and go back over the list. But let's talk about how do we overcome these challenges. So, Sarah, how what is your advice for people that are struggling with KOL access? How do they overcome that? Persistence is the easy answer here, but it doesn't mean doing the same thing. So if you try email and you're not getting a response, don't just send the same type of email again.
You either need to recraft your subject line, recraft the entire email, get some type of warm introduction from somebody internally, try a a different individual in the office. You know, don't just send the same email and say, following up again, you know, haven't heard from you yet. You know, that's that's persistence, but it's just doing the same thing over and over to expect a different result. Mhmm. So I would say get creative.
I know that we've got some different ways that we recommend access to difficult to reach accounts and some I mean, pretty much now everywhere is difficult. Katrina, do you wanna chime in on that? Yep. I 100% agree with everything that Sarah said, and I would add to this. I gotta look at my notes. I was like, what did I what was I thinking? Definitely create a mindset around adding value. Right? This is what you should be thinking about doing first.
If you're not getting responses, you're not hitting them with their top challenges. Like, that's that's the bottom line there. I did a hack recently with a hospitalist, and he gave 4 insider secrets to kolaccess. And he gave this really great example where he said that he actually responded to a cold email from a sales rep because it addressed a core challenge and problem him and his team were having at that time.
So the it was he paid attention and had the meeting because it was really addressing his challenge. So think about what are your KOLs and HCPs facing? What are their problems, and how can you help? And to Sarah's point, don't do anything like, oh, just following up. Like, that's not adding any value. They don't wanna respond to that. They're really, really busy. Do I have can I give one more? Yeah. Go for it.
Okay. I did another hack that I did recently was in collaboration with this very experienced med device sales rep, and he said something that I can't get out of my mind. He said, for these top KOLs, an email is not going to cut it. Like, you will not be able to get in. They're just too busy, too important. And we have 8 different ways that you can level up your warm intros.
So I know Sarah already mentioned this one, but I just really wanna reiterate, especially if you're new, you don't have the relationships, you don't know the HCPs, you need to have a system for mining your network, your company's network to get those introductions because that's what's going to give you the breakthrough. Love it.
As another really small plug, Sarah and I have this amazing KOL access program where we take you through all of these different steps to really help you get in front of those hard to reach KOLs and HCPs. Good. That's really good info, guys. I I, I was gonna add that last piece that you said, Katrina. Oh, I stole it? Yeah. You stole it. Yeah. Well, I listen.
I just had that that podcast, with Karsten and and Gina, and and they talked about a lot of this stuff that you just talked about, but, the relationship piece, leveraging internal relationships and and your network to be able to get information, that's gonna help you get access and get in front of people. You know, information is definitely power. Relationships are gonna be really helpful. Leverage those internal relationships with your sales reps and and counterparts.
Okay. Number 2. How do we overcome let's see. Number 2 is role clarity? Info over Info is what I am. Info overload. Yeah. So sorry. With that one. Yeah. I'll start with that one because I was talking about the certification. And you get all of a sudden all these articles, you get these slide decks. You just automatically jump in and start reading and start going slide by slide, slide by slide. Maybe you're writing everything down.
One of the things that you can do this transformed the way that I learned is something I learned from Jim Kwik. He teaches how to learn for to Google, to all the major big corporations. His book is called limitless. He says to ask yourself 3 questions before you dive in. So you ask yourself, how will I use this? When will I use this? And why will I use this? So before you read the article, you sit there and think, which type of physician would I use this with?
When might I talk about this particular thing? Would it be, like, a mid level? Would it be somebody that's concerned with safety? Like, who you know, when am I gonna use this and then why? What would be a reason that I would wanna pull up this information? That starts to get you thinking about the so what while you're reading the article or tabbing through the slide deck. I think that will just level you up.
The other tip is always gonna be find yourself a partner so that you can talk through the data. Don't just go back and forth with what you think about it. Talk about what you think the outside clinic clinicians will think about it. So PHDs, PharmDs, MDs, MPEs, we all start to talk about, oh, well, I think that we should have done this analysis. That's not really gonna get you very far, and it's just gonna take a lot of time. So start to think already what how is this gonna be received?
What could be the possible questions that we would get about this? Cool. I have a great add on to this and so many hacks for you guys as well. Start leveraging these AI tools. It is absolutely mind blowing what they can do with paper summarization and review. There's one tool in particular, PingMe, if you want to know more about it, where it has a feature called chat with PDF.
And so similar to what Sarah was talking about with an accountability partner to help with your learning, a lot of these AI tools will do it for you. And so this will help enhance your learning so that you can have those better conversations and really focus on the so what. Also, I just had a podcast that is going really crazy. The MSLs are loving it. But the, the Google tool, notebook l m, you can upload a scientific paper, click a button, and have it generate a podcast. And it's pretty good.
So then you can start I don't like the word multitasking, but while you're going for a walk or maybe doing the dishes, you can also listen to get the high level overview of this paper. And then I think layering that on top of what Sarah said with those three questions Mhmm. That's that's amazing. So definitely leverage technology to help you stay on top of the literature. This is a a huge challenge for a lot of MSLs. I think that podcast idea is gonna put me out of business.
Yeah. Mhmm. I'm gonna have to work out of the job. You guys will be. No. Or maybe you'll have people will be making podcasts out of your podcast. Out of your podcast. Maybe. Uh-huh. It could be. Yeah. Talk tips from Tom. Yeah. Alright. That would be great. Number 3. Number 3 is role clarity. Correct? Mhmm. Yep. So how do how would you advise, MSLs handle learning more about the role and overcoming role clarity issues? Sarah, what do you think? You want me to go? Yeah. You take this first.
I am thinking of this from the perspective of the MSL MSL. Mhmm. And I think one of the best tips for this is to feel comfortable or overcome your fear of asking questions to your manager and your team. At the end of the day, you need somebody helping you. You're brand new. You don't know what you're doing. Someone has to show you, and that starts with asking for help and being brave enough to ask your team for help.
Mhmm. So I think, you know, Sarah and I and Tom have a lot of people reaching out to us because they're too scared to talk to their team or their manager. So just you might be surprised how much people wanna help you. I really encourage you to just get clarification and be brave. Mhmm. Mhmm. Sarah, do you need to add? Yeah. And when you get the advice from experienced MSLs, take it. I'll be honest. That's the one thing that I struggled with when I started.
It's one of those things where you're at a medical meeting, you come back and you think, well, I have meetings on Monday too. That's not gonna get you any award. It's only gonna lead you to probably getting sick and getting burnt out. And so you've gotta maintain some time and some continuity in your life for things like exercise, things like getting back on track with your family, or, again, you're just gonna be a very unhappy MSL after a year.
And even if you win that MSL of the year or any or whatever, it's not gonna mean too much because you're gonna not have the energy that you should for the next year. Yeah. And, you know, in any in any walk of life, there's always somebody that's gone before you that's done it and done it better. And you look at some of the best athletes out there. They always had mentors. They always had role models.
They came into the league and they but I just I know for myself when I when I first started in sales, I just migrated to the people that I thought were the best at it and just asked a million questions and shadowed them. And I just wanted to learn from the best, and that's just it's human nature, but but like Katrina said, you have to ask. Yeah. You have to put yourself out there. Okay. So we are on imposter syndrome. Right? And you just answered that, Tom.
I think that you're the whole goal, right, of improving yourself is to surround yourself with people that are a level up from you. So if you're doing that, imposter syndrome is a natural thing. You should feel like that. But I think the tip that you just gave is number 1 of what I would recommend to do. It's just ask like you guys both said, ask them questions, learn from them. Use imposter syndrome as a positive thing. It's not something that has to bring down your confidence level.
You're there. You're in the room with these people, and you earned your right to be there. And now it's your chance to continue to learn and continue to grow. Yeah. And and, you know, I'll tell you. There's a lot of people might respond to that and say something like, well, fake it till you make it. Right? You hear that fake it till you make it. No. Just make it. Don't take anything. Be it. Just do it. You know, you you take that step. You you learn from your peers.
You do the extra work, and you do the thing, whatever that thing is. So if it's MSL ing, you do your best at what you know about MSL ing. And then the next day, it's gonna be easier. And the next day, it's gonna be easier. You're gonna learn more and more and get better and better at it. Nobody's perfect the 1st day Right. Or the 1st year. Mhmm. But the way you get there is one step at a time. I'm sorry, Petrine. I just, like, steamrolled you. Yeah. Like, wasn't it my turn?
Yeah. No. That was that was really great. I, actually, I was like, what am I gonna say? So that was perfect. It gave me time to think. Something that helps me and definitely reach out to me if you agree or disagree. I think about it from the perspective of the other person and what their expectations are. And they want to work with somebody that's really confident. And I think about that a lot because I've been in the receiving end of that. I have a a small story.
Think, Sarah, I told you this story. I had, or maybe it was you, Tom. But, you know, when you have to go to the dentist, you have to get the big X-ray, like, the smile the smile one? So there was a tech there, and she was, like, so timid and, like, you know, like, lightly trying to put on the the vest. And, like, she just seemed so unconfident. And I was like, are you qualified to operate this thing? Like, should you be actually doing this? Like, should I be scared?
And I think about that a lot because that's not how I want my customers to feel. Right? Like, when I talk to a person and they're confident and they seem like they know what they're doing, even if they maybe don't, it makes me feel confident. And so I think about that a lot when I'm interacting with somebody, and maybe I don't feel as confident as I would like, or I'm having some imposter syndrome.
One other kind of mindset shift that I like to do, I always remember that they don't want me to suck either. You know, like, people don't wanna interact with people that are unconfident, and uncertain. And so that that motivates me. I'm like, oh, they're cheering me on. They want me to do a good job. So I think that really works for me. Let me know what you guys think if that's stupid. No. That that is true.
The confidence piece, like, being getting to the point where you feel really confident in your own skin as an MSL is really, really important. That's a really good analogy because I think that that person was probably new. Yeah. And she probably didn't wanna mess up your teeth or whatever. I don't know. But She's, like, gonna shoot me with x rays or something. I don't know.
Yeah. But I talk about in in the imposter syndrome, podcast episode, you know, I talk about how important it is to give yourself some grace. Mhmm. You you you you gotta you you can't be your own worst enemy. And that's what happens with imposter syndrome is doubt. And and you have to give yourself a little bit of grace to overcome that doubt and realize that, you're human, and you're gonna learn. You're gonna get there, and you just have to take it one step at a time. So what are we up to?
I'm losing track. We're on number 5. I'm a terrible host. I should be writing this stuff down. I know we're on number 5. What is it? Oh, communication. Oh, Sarah, did you not know either? I just looked at your face. It was it's communication. Thinking we were talking about the time management one. So we're doing communication. You take this one, Katrina, and then I'll chime in. This is something I get outreach about a lot. Mhmm. We see this all the time. How do I present this data?
How do I not data dump? How do I connect with my audience? Even down to what do I say to these k wells? I have to do an ad board. What do I say to them? I would say that practice, practice, practice. This is really important. And the more you do it, the easier to get it gets. The first time's gonna feel horrible. The second time will feel less horrible. You'll get better and better at it and also to experiment. Right?
Figure out if you're trying to present to a different type of, stakeholder or HCP, really put yourself in their shoes. Try try something a little bit differently and see how they respond. That's going to help. Definitely, I know Tom and Sarah will echo this Get coaching. It can be so helpful. There are little things that you're not recognizing. And now I'm just rambling, so I'm gonna let Tom and Sarah go. Yeah. You're data dumping, Katrina. I know. Again. Again. I it's the PhD. I can't stop it.
Yeah. What not to do, folks. Yeah. Yeah. That was a example of what not to do. I'm gonna go with the most important thing. I mean, that's so simple, and I think it's one thing that always brings me back, especially if I have slides. So if I had as an MSL, if I had especially if I have slides. So if I had as an MSL, if I had a slide deck to present, think about for every single slide, what's the most important thing on this slide?
Or what is and if there's not a most important thing, then it might be one that you can just go through really quickly. So if you think about that, it'll make you what do I wanna say? It'll just make you really zero in on the things that are most important to the person that you're talking to and less apt to data dump. It's hard. Like, Katrina said, it's gonna take a lot of practice, and you also have to get to know your audience so that you know how to better tailor that most important thing.
But most important thing are 3 pretty keywords to remember. Yeah. Tom, can I tell a story about Sarah really fast? So, Sarah and I teach a lot of frameworks around presenting to help people learn this and get better at it and to avoid data dumping. And we were on one of our Aspire MSL calls, and one of the aspiring MSLs call called out Sarah. She was like, what about the most important thing? I think you listed more than what I thought. It was so funny. And so That is funny. But yes.
Yes. Well, sometimes it will have someone that's doing their practice presentation and they'll go over the entire slide or like 3 slides, and then you'll ask them, what do you think was the most important thing? And then they'll have this 2 sentences. It sounds so eloquent. And I was like, okay. That was it. That was it. That's all you had to say. It's less is more. I love it. Mhmm. Ironically, we are getting very long on time, and time management is the next topic. So go figure.
We're not doing a very good dime good job managing the time here. So let's quickly just finish up this conversation with what Katrina, you're the queen of time management. What would you say folks that are struggling with time management frustrations? What advice do you have? First thing is to listen to the podcast that Tom and I did on a time audit. That was a month or so ago, Tom. Yeah. It's a couple of months ago. Yep. Check that out. Go to the MSL Mastery website.
Download the time audit worksheet that we have. It is a really great starting point, and then start experimenting with systems. There is no single time management system that works for everybody, even for the same person because you change over time as well. So figure out where you spend your time, and then experiment to get a system that works works for you. And then, of course, follow me or ask me. I have a ton of resources on time management.
Once you nail this, I'm telling you, it's life changing. Like, you just you feel great. Sarah, final words. The last one from me is just to make sure to schedule some time for yourself, especially after a lot of travel. So time management doesn't mean that every single second has to be devoted to work. And when you're doing this travel, you've got a brand new role and you do have imposter syndrome.
You've gotta make sure that you schedule some time to have some decompression and get back to whether it's reading a book, going for a walk at home. I mean, you gotta get that on your calendar too. Important stuff. Personal growth, development. Love it. Guys, this was awesome, and I am really excited to, to hear from you all because I know that this is gonna be a popular episode. If you liked it, please share it with others, and and interact with us. Comment. We love your posts.
We love hearing from you. Sarah, Katrina, happy holidays to you both. Thank you for being here. Lot of fun. Thanks, Tom. Yeah. Thank you. This is great. Alright. Guys, we'll see you next time. Love you all. Appreciate you all. And, Yeah. Have a happy holiday season. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the show, and if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future, and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment.
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