Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Sarah Snyder. She is actually on my team here at the Cowen Group. She works as a, senior MSL recruiter. And we talk about her strategies and best for how to overcome setbacks and challenges and adversity. And Sarah's amazing at all this stuff. So you really need to listen to all the stuff that she's gonna share on this episode. It's really, really good to know, and it will help you with your mind and and your attitude and the whole deal.
So don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn, and check us out on MSL talk live, which is typically the 1st Tuesday of every month, although we've been moving it a little bit because of travel schedules. So just check LinkedIn for our next MSL talk live, which would be on the LinkedIn live platform. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Sarah. Welcome back to the podcast. How are you? Hi, Tom. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. Awesome. Excited, guys. So you guys know Sarah, we work together and she's amazing. And, I I she, like, inspired me to do this episode and and the inspiration came. So Sarah was asked to speak at an event, last week in Chicago for MAPS. MAPS is the Medical Affairs Professional Society. They do an amazing job and they asked her to speak. And so she's up there and she's talking in front of this group. And she said, I heard her say, this quote, things will be hard, but we can do hard things.
And that just in I like the whole crowd was like, oh, like it resonated because of the topic that we were talking about. And then it resonated with me, and I don't know. I was inspired to do this episode based upon that quote because I know that there's a lot going on right now. So we're gonna get into that. Sarah, why don't you just do a quick so you could tell everybody who you are, where you're from, all that good stuff? Yeah. Thanks again for having me, Tom.
And that quote, I mean, it actually comes from my heart, and I live it. And it it really throughout my career, I've had to tell myself that over and over. So as far as an introduction, I am a Pharm d by training, and I went into the industry right after school. And I did a residency that was industry based, and then I moved on and worked in house. So I have a little bit of in house pharmaceutical experience. But most of my pharma experience is field based.
So about 20 years at both small biotech and large pharma. And then after that, I pivoted most of you guys know, I pivoted to work with Tom as a recruiter. And, you know, the recruiting world has really taught me a lot of resilience too that I think I sort of expected, but I probably didn't realize quite as much how it was going to be. So we, you know, we can talk about that, but I think when I say quotes like that, I don't say things unless I use them myself.
And so I I feel like this is such a great episode for people to, you know, learn from you, you know, hopefully learn a couple of things from my mistakes and move forward because the world isn't getting any easier. No. And that's the whole reason why we decided to have this conversation is because things are you know, it's tough out there for a lot of people. So let's just jump right into it. It's the Q4, so we're almost at the end of the year. We have, you know, a couple months left.
And as we reflect back on the year and even just right now, like, what are some of the things that you're seeing right now in the market? When I mean market, I'm I'm not just talking about the job market, but I'm talking about the state of affairs in the pharmaceutical industry, in business, just the the, you know, the overall climate. Yeah. I mean, let's start with just health care. Right?
I've never seen a higher number of people reaching out to us that are looking to get in the industry because they're, number 1, burnt out, and number 2, just don't know where else to turn. So they're looking for someone and something to help them. Pharmacists in general you know, I'm a pharmacist by training, and their level of just frustration with the retail environment is sky high.
And then just moving over into, you know, post COVID, the health care professionals, the the doctors that were on the front line or just, you know, nurse practitioners, everyone, I feel like just has this extra level of stress that they're carrying around, and it doesn't seem to be going away even post pandemic. It actually seems like, if anything else, their responsibilities and stress load has gone up. And then trans it's going over to pharma and biotech.
You know, we've seen a lot of drugs not do what we expected in phase three trials. So that's one thing that, you know, just rocks people's world. You know, there's nothing worse. It was 2 years ago almost to the day. It was actually on Halloween that I saw our pivotal trial data, you know, from the biotech that I was working on. There's nothing worse than when you see the graph and you're expecting to see this, separation and the placebo and the active drug arm are equivalent.
And anybody listening to this will know exactly what I'm talking about, and your stomach just kinda does this. And then you think, well, maybe we can look at it a different way and then a different way. And then when, you know, all the ways are looked at and there's still that flat line, it's just this feeling of, you know, now what? So I think a lot of people feel that. And then you and I both know so many people are laid off. So many people are doing more with less that are left.
So even if you're left, you have this residual guilt for being left on the team, and then you're asked to, you know, pick up multiple territories and just do more. So I I I think you know, what do you think? I I I just feel like people have a level of stress like I haven't seen before. Yeah. And and it it is true. And I know that I I had just talked to Coraline Truitt recently. If you guys haven't heard that episode, you should really listen to it.
And it was about her situation and how she had gone through, 2 unexpected layoffs and how she recovered. So this episode's a little different. We're gonna we're just gonna take a different spin on it. But, you know, the point of the matter is there's there's just a lot of uncertainty right now. There's a lot, because of the the state of affairs that Sarah just mentioned, the fact that there's a lot of layoffs.
There's there's actually something that companies are doing right now, which is called quiet cutting. And you've heard of quiet quitting, which is when an employee, they don't they don't quit or or, like, resign, but they stay in their job, but they kinda, like, pseudo pseudo quit. They just do the bare minimum to get by, which, by the way, I think is totally deplorable. I think that that's just either do a good job or you get out. That's my own personal opinion.
I hope I didn't offend anybody by saying that, but that's my personal opinion. But what companies are doing, like, not as a response to that, but is instead of having mass layoffs or laying people off, they're restructuring, in what they call quiet cutting, which is it's basically like they're they're demoting a level.
So people are actually winding up in in either different roles or lesser roles, which, again, I I don't I don't I don't support anybody having to get laid off or anybody getting demoted, obviously. But that's just another thing. Who even heard of such a thing? It's another thing that's that's kinda going on right now. So I'm I'm hearing and seeing the same things. Obviously, we're all in this together. But, Sarah, like, what about the emotions?
Like, what kind of conversations are you having with people now? What are you hearing from people? What are the emotions out there? Yeah. The 2 that really jump out at me the most are, first of all, surprise. So I think a lot of people I'm gonna start with the people that are already in pharma and biotech. I think that, you know, that we've had a pretty good ride the last couple years. So I think a little peep we can be a little bit shocked by the level and the multitude of the layoffs.
And then, you know, when they do look to see, you know, what's next, it what you know, the opportunities might not be what they were 6 months ago for them. So I think a little surprise, from that front. I maybe a little surprised too on, you know, what happened within their own company. They, you know, they sometimes you don't see these things coming. Sometimes you do. So it's it is tough. And then I think going to the clinicians too that are looking to transition, Yeah.
It used to be that industry was the dark side and that when you were ready to make that transition, you know, you'd call a friend and just say, hey. You know, I'm ready to enter pharma. You know? What do you got? And I think now people are surprised at how difficult it is to transition over. It's it's definitely not the way that it used to be. And then I think after that surprise, it's really frustration.
I feel like I hear the frustration in people's voices and just a little bit of pessimistic attitude overall. Those are the things that I see the most. How about you? Yeah. I you know, you you you really took the words out of my mouth. The frustration piece is just it's so heartbreaking because you you talk to folks. And, you know, you can you can hear that they're trying, and you can hear that they wanna be positive, and they wanna make something happen.
But you can hear that frustration where it's like, everybody seems to be looking for a break. They're looking for answers. They're looking they're coming to us hoping that we will give them some type of advice, some type of strategy, something that they can do to get them through this this current level of frustration. And and, you know, and thankfully, we do have some strategies, and we we are, you know, doing our best to help people.
But, you know, the timing is something that nobody can predict. You can't. I can't tell anyone. Oh, yeah. We'll just do this. And tomorrow you'll get that or just do this. And a week from now, you're gonna get a new job.
So there's this is definitely an exercise in patience for a lot of people that I think a lot of people are out of patience, but it's it's it's definitely something that they have to kinda force themselves to get up every day and and overcome the frustration and try to try to find a level of of patience and resilience to get through this. So what let's talk about, because you're really good with people and with giving people advice and strategies.
So tell me, when you're having conversations with folks that are surprised and frustrated and going through these emotions that we just talked about, what are some of the things that advice and some of the things that you're telling them? Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing more than ever is to take action and take ownership over your own career. And one of the things that I wanted to talk about today is they a lot of times, we avoid problems. Right? And we we like life to be a little bit easier.
But if you wanna think about your career as seeking problems, it almost sounds counterintuitive, but if you can seek out areas where you can fix problems, that's where you're gonna get hired. So whether you're in the interview setting or you are just trying to find the right company that could be a fit for you. If you look where hey. Where could I solve a problem? Where is there something that I could add to in a different way that maybe someone else doesn't have?
And I have a unique skill set that could be an asset over there. That's you know, I think thinking a little out of the box about it, you know, you never know what might come transpire. I mean, look at me. I'm a recruiter now. We would have never thought that to be 2 years ago, but we saw you know, I saw where, hey. There is a problem and that, you know, people are seeking careers and maybe they would like to hear from someone that is similar to them.
And then, you know, I was able to come and and help with that. So it's a it's a funny way of thinking that. But if you try to look for problems and where you can solve them, I think it helps a lot. Yeah. And I'll I'll just add to that. I you know, you guys have heard me say this a 1000000 times on this podcast, but, like, the battle starts in your mind.
You really have to control the internal dialogue and the narrative that you keep telling yourself, because if you keep beating yourself up, and replaying that state, that same negative soundtrack, beating yourself up, you know, not putting yourself, in in that frame of mind that's gonna make you that's gonna pull you in the right direction, you're gonna be stuck. So, you know, I try to tell folks that it's really important to encourage yourself.
The word encourage means bring courage to, and we're we're very good at encouraging others. But we're not very good at encouraging ourselves. So when you encourage yourself, you're bringing courage to yourself with that's what we need to do every single day. We have to be our own best advocate. We have to control the internal dialogue. And we have to make sure that when we start going negative, you guys know what I'm talking about. You all know what I'm talking about.
When you start going negative, you have to reframe that narrative. And you have to start to encourage yourself so that you can find the motivation and the energy and the excitement and the enthusiasm to chase something. You're gonna get hits of dopamine just by knowing that you're chasing something and that you're on the right track. Sarah said it before, take action.
You know, once you start to take action and pick yourself up, you're going to start to feel better about where you're going, and you're not going to be stuck. So let me ask you, though, what do you do? What are what are some of your own personal strategies and techniques when you're having a bad day when you need to pull yourself up after maybe you had some type of setback or something that affected you? Yeah. I mean, the number one thing that I do, Tom, is get outside.
And there's nothing you guys say is gonna make you feel better than a 10 minute walk outside, and it's not just because of the movement. It's because of the nature. So there's something definitely healing about that. So I most every morning, you'll find me out by the weather actually getting in a run or a walk because I do believe in the importance of that, and it it helps me tremendously. The second thing I would say I do is I try to stay off social media as much as possible. I'm on LinkedIn.
But social media and the news, I mean, I I don't know, guys. It it's not gonna help you right now to play the news at night and sit there and talk about your family, you know, or your your friends about all the things that are going on in the world. It doesn't mean that you, you know, that you can't know what's going on, but it definitely isn't gonna boost your mood at all, and neither is Netflix.
I mean, I always tell people if they're having a bad day, you know, there's nothing wrong with taking your your night and just relaxing and doing some Netflix. But when you think about it the next day, you really don't feel better. Like, that doesn't do much for you long term at all. So, you know, we all do it, but you gotta make sure that you stop it at a day, and then you get back to your habits and you start to have some type of plan moving forward.
So I think, you know, you can take a day, it can take 2 days, but don't make it more than that and then figure out an action plan and start taking action on that. That's the way I do it. And, I mean, as far as tactical things that I actually do, You know, when I laid got laid off, I had a dry erase board and I had it on my bathroom mirror. If things don't happen to me, they happen for me. And when times got tough, I literally would say that to me myself over and over and over.
And I also would say I can do hard things just like I did at that talk. It maps I would I would tell myself that. And I love how you said, you know, you gotta talk to yourself better, you know, than you do right now. You gotta look at yourself talk because that's what I would say to a friend. You know? So you gotta talk to yourself the way you talk to one of your coworkers and not, you know, beat yourself up about gosh. I can't believe this is happening to me again.
Why do these things always happen to me? You know? It's you it's not gonna get you anywhere. So if you sit there and and worry about it and stress about it, you're just gonna be in the same place the next day and feel worse.
Yeah. And, you know, when you were talking before about how you don't get anywhere by complaining to your friends and calling your mother and calling your sister and your brother and, like, you know, all these people, every minute you waste talking to somebody about the, you know, negative things that are going on, or, you know, gossiping or just getting down on yourself and beating yourself up, the more time you waste, that's the less time you have to actually focus on the solution.
You're just focusing on the problem, you're not focusing on the solution. So spend your energy in a positive way. And, and, and force yourself not to have those conversations. Put those conversations aside. Instead, replace them with positive conversations, and maybe start telling every you know, calling people and said, hey. Guess what? You know what I'm gonna do today? I'm gonna go take a 10 minute walk. And then I'm gonna, you know, go online, and I'm gonna research job opportunities.
And then I'm gonna gonna network for for 30 minutes, and then I'm gonna apply to some positions. And then I'm gonna do some you know? Like, you you really want to start to develop a consistent strategy of what kind of process you're gonna put in place to get yourself out of the situation that you're in. You're focusing on the solution. You're not focusing on the problem.
So that's what I think a lot of people need to do because they spend so much time wallowing in their own self misery either to themselves or to others, and you don't get anywhere doing that. You don't. And I think you're right. Like, if you have your strategies and you have your tactics that you do on a daily basis and you have your plan, even though when you don't feel like it, you're just gonna do the things.
It it doesn't mean that you're gonna wake up feeling better 3 days from now because you've listened to this podcast or you did this, you know, extra 10 pages of reading. But you're gonna have those tactics, like Tom said, and you're gonna do those things. So it's it's that idea that I'm gonna do it even if I don't feel like it because that's what I set out to do. And then eventually, over time, it finally starts to catch up and and you build some momentum. It's so important.
Develop some really, really good habits. And maybe if you can take the time let's say you're going through a layoff and you have some time, where you're not working, but you are gonna be working towards your job search. Well, in addition, get up and start to work out. Do things that you wouldn't normally do. Drink more water, stretch, meditate. If you're spiritual, find more time to, you know, for some prayer time. But, you know, eat healthier, take supplements.
There's so many things that you can adopt and and incorporate into your daily routine that will become habits, and then those habits are gonna stay with you when you get your next job. So I talk about habits and process. I'm not just talking about how much time you spend networking and researching and applying to positions. I'm also talking about positive habits that are gonna help you physically and mentally for the long haul. So what's the thing you what's the thing you do, Sarah?
The, that Mel Robbins thing. There's a Mel Robbins thing you do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, guys, look, I am a worrier by nature. You know, I don't have, like, this disposition where everything comes, you know, positive in my brain. You know? So I have to use actual tactics and strategies, and there's 2 things, Tom. The first thing is, my kids would tell you that I actually do say this. And I'll say, like, would it matter in 5 days? And would it matter, you know, in 5 months?
And will it matter in 5 years? So even if something silly happens, you know, you actually ask yourself, is that gonna matter long term? And if it is, then maybe it is something you gotta figure out some tactics to, you know, work around it. But likely, a lot of the things that give us upset on a daily basis are not even something that, you know, we're gonna be concerned within 5 days or even 5 months, let alone 5 years. So that's tactic number 1.
And then the other thing is a Mel Robbins tactic, and it is when you really start to spiral and worry, you just have to take a second. You have to breathe, and then you have to say, what if it all turns out okay? So, literally, just saying to yourself, like, what if it all turns out okay? And I do that, especially with my middle daughter. You know? Like, if she starts to freak out about her grades or about her sports. You know? You just have to sit there and think, what if it all turns out okay?
Because what's the likelihood that, you know, in 2 years, we're gonna be having the same conversation about the job market. It's highly unlikely. It's gonna, you know, be a better market and people are gonna have more options and, you know, moving forward. But just taking a second and thinking that to yourself and, again, there's nothing better than making your screenshot on your not your screenshot.
Your, what's your home page, you know, on your phone or your background on your laptop or writing it on your bathroom mirror, something like that. What if it all turns out okay? And then you start to think to yourself, hey. It is gonna be okay. And then your mindset just shifts. And, I mean, our brains work that way. We have so many PhDs and pharmaes and MDs that are listening to this that are way smarter than me about the neurochemistry and the biology of our brain, but our brain does.
It searches for those things. So if you start to think it's gonna be okay, your brain is gonna look for things that show you, hey. It is going to be okay, and things will start to happen for you. It it just is the way it is. Yeah. For sure. And I love Mel Robbins. You know, I I did a podcast on, her, high five habit, and and I I'm a big fan of her 5 second role. So another thing that, that Mel Robbins actually that she actually became, like, famous for is the 5 second role.
So when you're going through, like, an anxious time or there's a stressful moment or situation, you just stop, and you count to 5 backwards, 54,321. And you just, by doing that, it actually takes your brain into kind of a different place. It's just like a mental reset. You know? And and one of the things that I started doing more recently in my adult life than I ever have before is breathing. I really am focused on my breath work.
So one of the things that I would recommend, if you guys don't do this regularly, it's really, really simple. Just go to Google and type in breathing techniques. There's all these different types. You you'd be surprised. They're like Wim Hof breathing. There's this, like, Navy Seal style of breathing. There's the the the cadences in in how you breathe.
And I'm not saying that, you know, you need to be an expert at this, but even just getting good at deep breathing, I think, is really, really good, not just for your physical self and putting your body into a different state, but it really calms your brain. And the 5 the 5 second rule helps in combination with breathing.
So, Sarah, what you mentioned Good. And before you go on, just just really quick, because I I don't know if it was Mel Robbins that did this or someone else, but it was definitely, like, the count back. And I did this. I remember when I got laid off, I was pretty, you know, disappointed. This is several years ago, and it was the 54321. And she recommends you do it just to get out of bed in the morning, guys.
So it's literally your alarm goes off, and you can give yourself that 5, but, like, you count backwards. And when it hits 1, get out of bed, and you get up and you start your day. And that, I think, just was really impactful to to me too because your brain just starts to signal. Okay. When it hits 1, like, I get up. I don't hit this news again. Yep. No. And that's and that's her story. I you know, if you guys don't know who she is, it's just Mel Robbins.
You should check her out on, like, social media. She's got, like, bazillion followers. She's really popular nowadays. But she's really good at helping people through difficult times. Yeah. But, Sarah, what are you telling your kids nowadays? I know that they I'm sure they probably have, you know, they're at different ages, so they span from college to, like, middle school. And, you know, so now what are they seeing? What what kind of parenting do you feel you have to do? Is it extra nowadays?
And what are you telling them in this what seems to be kind of a negative time? Yeah. Yeah. That's such an interesting question. I think I parent a lot differently than I used to, to be honest. We we focus a lot more on the actual journey in our house versus the outcome, and I try to make them as, like, process oriented as possible. It doesn't always work, but, they're you know, we're hanging in there. I've got all 3 of mine are, you know, heavily involved in athletics.
So that's something where we have to look for wins even when they're not, you know, outwardly present. There's always something from a practice. It doesn't have to be a skill, but maybe something where you built a friendship or you someone else got something and, like, something that you can focus on that was positive from that day. We actually have a poster board for each year in our hall.
We started this during COVID, and we got a review of the year with, like, tiny lens on it where they just add to it. And then, you know, things that didn't go so well, we write them up there too. And then just talk about it and, you know, what what do we learn from that? And always continually looking forward and try to look at failures as things that were not true failures, but we we look at them and then we move on. You know? Again, I've got athletes.
So there's been some rides home from competitions that are not so fun, and I give them time. Just like I'm saying, if you have something happen in your job, you gotta give yourself a little bit of time. But then you gotta get back up there and, you know, go again the next time. And if you don't try again, you know, you're gonna have more regret than anything else. Right?
Yeah. And then the second thing for my kids that I think, has helped us a lot that I didn't used to do, but we started this, I think, right before COVID, actually, is, my older 2 kids have what I would call, like, a life coach for them. And it sounds kinda you know, when I tell people that, sometimes, you know, I get some weird looks, but, it was more for sports that we started it, like a sports psychologist type.
But, honestly, it's helped in ways I can't even really explain dealing with, you know, a homework assignment they didn't get a good grade on. Because I feel like everybody who listened to this podcast was probably really good at school, you know, did it all, you know, and has kids that are like that too that are high performers. And so, you know, when things don't go right, they have a tough time dealing too.
And I think having a life coach for them has just given them some someone besides their mom to talk to, and they get things to read. Well, my son is in college now, so he doesn't have this anymore. But my daughter does, and she gets things to read. He'll give her a podcast to listen to. It's a sounding board for her, and it's made a tremendous difference, I think, in her mindset. What I know you're a personal growth junkie. So what what resources would you recommend to people right now?
Mhmm. Yeah. I just finished Lewis Howe's book, and I was gonna bring it down here. And I so I we we could put the, the title in the show notes because I don't have it off the top of my head, but I really liked that book. So that was a recent one that I just finished.
I honestly don't think you can go wrong with any personal development book at Barnes and Noble or off Amazon, and it's the fact of the matter is a lot of them say the same type of thing in a different way, but you can take something from each one of them. But my point of the matter is read something. Even if you read for 10 minutes every night instead of looking at your phone, I think that's number 1.
And then the second thing that, I've done more recently, and I started doing this in the summer, and it was really, really hard for me, is I don't look at my phone in the morning until after I've done my gratitude and after I've done visualization. After that but then I, you know, will look at emails and things like that, but II won't even pick it up until I've done that part and it makes a big difference in how I frame and go at my day. So I think those are 2 just simple things that you can do.
There's no reason that we have to look at our phone right when we wake up. You know, it may be your alarm, but, nothing is waiting, you know, more than your mind for you. And if your phone consumes you first thing in the morning, I think it can just take you where you woke up in a certain kind of mood and spiral you very, very quickly, and you lose control over your thought process and your day. Yeah. No. For sure. It's such a bad habit. We all tend to do it, but it's such a bad habit.
I'm the same way. I try not to look. And and I'm, sometimes I struggle with it, but I'm just I force myself not to do it, and I get through all my morning stuff beforehand. Tell us about your your cold plunge. Oh, well, this one's your fault. So Tom got me, and I think you got me. And, Tay, one of the people that Tom listens to has a program that's called 75 hard, and it's not a wellness program or a fitness program. It's a mental toughness, program.
And you, you essentially have different things that you do, and you have to do them on a daily basis for 75 days. I actually did it last year for the first time at the end of the year, and I did it over the holidays, which was it wasn't I would do it again in a heartbeat because I really do feel like it rewired a lot of my mindset and made me a lot tougher. And then I did it again starting in the summer, but he had added to what you had to do for the challenge.
So the first thing and some of you, again, the PHGs especially might know the benefits of a cold shower. But let me tell you. Like, I I read that I had to do that, and I was like, are you kidding me? I I don't do cold showers. Like, this is not gonna happen. And I was like, well, sir, you already decided you're gonna do this. So, you know, now you're gonna do a cold shower. So I I started doing the cold showers, and I did them for 3 days.
And after the second day, it was a it was a, 5 to 10 minute cold shower. And I'm talking a cold shower. It I'm not talking like you're trying the cold shower to the hot shower, you know, and back and forth. You literally stand in the thing for that amount of time. And luckily, I did this in the summer, so it's a little easier. But number 1, my body felt amazing, and number 2, my mind felt amazing.
That dopamine that you talked about earlier really hits and, made it so that I was just so much more focused, so much better off, like, for the rest of the day. So I started I'm trying to get Tom to do this too. I I I invested in the cold plunge thing. Like, it's a thing that you sit in and you put ice in there, and you sit in there for 10 minutes every morning. It sounds absolutely insane. But I look forward to it now in a weird way.
I still like, right when you do it, you think to yourself, oh my gosh. This is gonna be so hard. This is insane. And my family thinks I'm a little crazy. My daughter will do it because of hard workouts. But, it's not just if you're an athlete. It's actually you know, I think if you look at the data, cold plunging is great for your mindset. It is great for athletes and your performance, but more so, you're, you know, you're just overall mindset than anything else.
So I do it every day, and I will continue. I actually wanna invest in the thing that you you don't have to replace the ice in. It's really cool. So someday, you'll see me with my plunge. It's a big trend now. Yes. And I do have to do it and invest in it. Sarah's been talking about it for a long time. It's actually really changed her significantly because she talks about it all the time, and she's always all fired up and and optimist. She always is.
But, like, even more so, there's a physical and a mental benefit to it. So, that's another really good thing that you could do to get through some of these these challenging times that we're in. So let's leave it at that. I think that's an awesome, awesome episode. And, Sarah, thank you as always for coming on and sharing your wisdom. Thank you for having me. I can talk about this stuff all day.
And, I mean, I I know you're you're wrapped up, but I just wanna add, you know, the when I was my second job was in biotech. And back then, I was the person that did gossip. We spent you know, we knew we were gonna get acquired. We would spend the days on the phone talking about, like, do you think we're gonna get acquired? And so and so did this. And, well, I heard this rumor. And the sales rep told me this. And I heard this from the marketing person. And you know what?
We got acquired after about 8 months of that, but that 8 months was lost time. Like, just like you were saying, where we were just purely gossiping. So I get it. I know why you're doing it, and I used to do it too. But if you're in that kind of a place or even if you're in the layoff and you're just talking to your colleagues about it, like, it does not get you any further than you are today. So I'll leave it at that. Yeah. No. That's actually I think that's a great way to end it.
And I think that it I I think that if we can force ourselves to just try to take the high road in, in all aspects of what it is that we're talking about today, just really reframe your mind, and take the high road and try to figure out 2 things. What is gonna serve me, and what is gonna serve others? Is it gonna do me any good if I if I engage in whatever the activity or thought process is? Is it gonna do anybody else any good? So if you think along those terms, that should be the guiding light.
That should be what brings you to the decisions and actions that you need to take right at that time. It's such a good barometer. I find myself doing it more and more every day. I kinda let that govern me, in a way to just be able to keep me on track in the where I spend my time and what I spend my time doing. So, guys, as always, thank you for all your support. Thank you for joining us every week and for sharing these episodes.
The podcast continues to grow, and I have all of you guys to to thank for that. And, yeah, appreciate you guys. We'll see you next time. Thanks again, Sarah. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.