Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Samantha Buckley, and we talk about the ultimate checklist for new MSL. So this is an awesome conversation. I hope you guys enjoy it. Don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn and check out all of the regular announcements and content that gets posted for the MSL community.
I appreciate you guys subscribing to this show and following us, and, hope to see you on MSL Talk Live, which is a live version of this podcast, and it's typically the 1st Tuesday of every month. Check LinkedIn for announcements. Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Sam. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me. Hey, Tom. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me today. Hi, everybody.
My name is Samantha Buckley. I'm located in Northeast Pennsylvania, so Scranton, PA. If any of you are office fans, that's kind of our big claim to fame in this area. I'm a clinical pharmacist by training, so I have about five and a half years of hematology oncology experience at one of our hospitals nearby. And, today, Tom and I are gonna talk about how I transitioned from hospital clinical pharmacy to that being an MSL. So Wait. Guys, you are in for a treat. Sam's awesome.
I actually met Sam, in San Diego last year at ASH, and we just kinda, you know, kept in touch and she reached out and had this really awesome idea, which I haven't done this before. So I think that this is gonna be a great benefit to anyone who is a newer MSL or an aspiring MSL, because we're gonna cover some really, really groundbreaking information that'll help you guys. But before we do that, I wanna talk about, mass east. So the medical affairs strategic summit is coming up.
It's one of my favorite conferences of the year, and I want you guys to be there. It's in Jersey City. And the early bird discount actually ends on March 15th. So if you're curious about what it is, it's an event sponsored by Fierce Life Sciences. It's called the Medical Affairs Strategic Summit. It's the ultimate event for medical affairs, medical communications, and field medical leaders.
It's also the premier event to to network and connect with medical affairs leaders across pharma for 3 days. So it's great learning, fun networking. Elevate your expertise at Mass East this year. It's in Jersey City from May 6th to 8th. And listeners of the MSL talk talk podcast can get 25% off on registration. So you have to use the code m s l t a l k, no spaces, when you register. Again, try to do so before March 15th to take advantage of the early bird.
And the best place to go is medaffairsummit.com. That's medaffairssumm it.com. So I'll see you guys in Jersey City. Alright, Sam. Give us the goods, man. How'd you do it? What's the secret? Everybody wants to know, how did you go from clinical pharmacy to MSL Life? Okay. So first of all, I'm not I graduated Wilkes University in 2018 as a pharmacist. So in pharmacy school, you're exposed to you could work, you know, at at CVS in the community. You could be a hospital pharmacist.
And I'm so driven and I'm so eager. I I really wanted to find out, well, what else could I do as a pharmacist? So your last year of pharmacy school, you have what are called clinical rotations, and I opted for 1 at a pharmaceutical company. And it was actually in pharmacovigilance. So I did my rotation. It was 8 weeks there. It was a double block for those of you who are pharmacists. And within that, I said, well, what what else is there? You know, there's there's pharmacovigilance.
And I asked my mentor, and he was really wonderful at providing me some more exposure into the other aspects that a pharmacist could work in in the industry. So I shadowed a little bit in regulatory affairs, and then I also got to shadow in medical affairs. So my mentor, he hooked me up with an awesome MSL, and I actually participated in a field ride with her. So there I was 22 years old. We went and she did a clinical presentation. It was big in service at one of the local hospitals.
And she spoke, and she did her presentation, and she interacted with all of the there were nurses. There were, mid level providers there, physicians there. And I just saw how she was able to engage in them, and it was exciting. And she's talking with all these new people and was able to use her clinical knowledge in a unique way. And I was like, wow. This is awesome. And I was like, I could do this as as a a pharmacist, me? And she's like, yeah.
So, we actually I we kept in touch, and that was really my first exposure to medical affairs and being an MSL. I was like, wow. This is awesome. And sure enough, graduating pharmacy school, it it's hard. I I sent a a 1000000 applications outside of pharmacy school. Really, my goal was I I just wanted a job so bad. I I was always passionate about working in the hospital and, you know, I during my pharmacy school, I interned at a hospital nearby.
So I then transitioned back into being a clinical pharmacist. I landed a role in a cancer center nearby, and I was there for about five and a half years. And then I I was newly married. We just got off our honeymoon. I was, you know, all of these great vibes. And I'm like, to my husband, I I said, I think I'm gonna try to break in into the industry again. I said, I I think, you know, it's time. I have my clinical experience.
I I got to see all of these solid and liquid tumors, and I have so much knowledge within this therapeutic area. I said, I I think it's time to, you know, move forward and give it a shot again. He's like, alright. I'm I'm supportive of you. So what I did, I went on LinkedIn and, you know, it it's it's hard to when you have a wonderful job and to put on LinkedIn that you're open to work.
That's something that I had a hard time doing, But in the end, you know, my goal is to always grow and to learn more. So that was the first thing I did. I went on LinkedIn and put open to work. Then, from there, what I did was I started reaching out to recruiters. I I knew I I connected with a couple of old folks who did some fellowships and were in industry already, and they said, you know, recruiters are your best friend. They're your secret weapon.
So I when I did in LinkedIn, I just searched, you know, medical affairs recruiters and tried to connect with as many people as I could. And then during that process, I probably sent Tom about 70 applications, to big pharma, small pharma, using their websites. I applied through LinkedIn. And then, to be honest with you, it it you know, I I wrote different papers. I adjusted my resume. I tried to do so many different things. And of all of those 70 applications, I heard back from one company.
So you applied to 70 positions. Yeah. And you wound up eventually hearing back from one company. And was that like, hey, we're interested in your background. We want you to interview or, like, what happens then? Yeah. So, actually, it was I heard from a recruiter, and he said, you know, Sam, your your experience is awesome within that Hema Hema therapeutic area. The the the business is really booming right now for MSLs and in that specific field.
He said the only thing that could possibly hurt you, and he was very transparent, which I appreciated. He said that you don't have MSL experience. And I said, yeah. But what I on a daily basis, it correlates to so much of that as an MSL. Speaking with health care professionals, understanding the data, being able to dive into that to help make those therapeutic decisions. So he says, like, you know what?
I'm gonna submit your name for this company because recruiters work with, different, companies to help get positions. So what I did then was I I heard back from that company said, hey. You know, they're they're really intrigued by your resume and your experience, but they really appreciated, Sam, that you wrote a cover letter and that you made it personalized and, you know, you don't just seem like a robot or just someone who's standard setting you know, sending in your application.
And he goes, can you interview tomorrow? They they it was a Saturday. This was Friday towards the end of the day. And, he said the director's traveling and wants to speak with you briefly tomorrow. So that's how But wait. Hold on a second. Let me unpack a little bit of that here before we go too much further. So what you're saying is one of the ways you stood out is in your cover letter. So what exactly did your cover letter say?
So I need a personable something very like, my family and my friends and my support group is everything to me. So I spoke. I said, hi. You know, my name is Samantha Buckley. I'm a clinical pharmacist, PharmD. I've you know, my experience in the Hema Cancer Center. And then I I spoke of my husband, Tyler, and he's a fireman, and he's the love of my life. And I spoke of our German shepherd, Cali, and she's our our puppy and our baby.
And then I really emphasized, you know, what I do as a clinical pharmacist and how that hones in and correlates to that of an MSL. You know, I think really one thing is important is making yourself different, like, some differentiating factor, what makes you unique, and then talking about your strengths. And just because you don't have MSL experience, everyone has to get that experience somehow.
So I just spoke of how what I did on a daily basis in the hospital ties so closely to what an MSL does and just that I'm passionate and I'm driven, and I really just wanted to grow and have a new challenge in my life. I I said I'm young, I'm energetic, and I I'm ready. And my my my old boss even said that's what made the difference. So alright. So you write this really personable cover letter. It gets noticed. Now this is a so then you got a call on a Friday, and you interviewed on a Saturday?
Yes. That's amazing. Yeah. I I remember having I had plans, and I was like, everybody, hold the call. Plans are off. Plans canceled. Yep. Let let's get the office ready. We clean my office. I got my computer all downloaded, and everything was ready. I think I was on the interview, like, a half hour early. And I love it. It but, it That's amazing. Well, congratulations. So then you so you wind up getting the MSL position. Right? And then what happens next? Now you're like, oh, wow.
Be careful what you wish for. Now you become an MSL. So walk us through because what we're gonna talk about today is this checklist of what a new MSL should expect and what a new MSL should consider doing or how it works. So let's walk me through what happens right after you start. Yeah. No. That that's great. And I think it's so important to talk about because, you know, I throughout pharmacy school and my my last position, it it really was different.
And, you know, like I said, you use those same skills. So the first process was simple. It's your 1st week. It's all the traditional onboarding and HR paperwork, very similar to, like, when you start any new job and they give you the policies and procedures. But with being an MSL and through my experience, what happens is you have to go through a certification. So what that means is depending on your therapeutic area. So mine was HemOnc and depending on the product portfolio.
So some companies, you may just have one drug or you may be covering multiple drugs. You have to get certified in that drug and basically become the key expert on that product. So it for me, my experience was I had 6 weeks of rigorous training. And throughout that though, you you have a great support team. So you not only you know, you're a team of MSLs. So you had your team of MSLs. You have your manager helping you. And what that what that is so I had a series of modules.
So you learn about the disease state, the drug, the competitor products, the different literature out there. It's it's really intense, but it's wonderful. You almost feel like you're back in school again because you're sitting studying and then you have check ins with your teammates and your managers and you're learning how to not only understand and read the data, but then you also have to understand how to be able to effectively communicate that data. Awesome.
Yeah. So then after certification, basically, once you do all of that studying for 6 weeks, certification is a presentation, front of you in front of usually your peers' leadership, and it's fair game. They could ask you basically any question. And you need to confidently be able to answer it, or if you can't answer it, you need to be able to find the information and follow-up, of course, after. Okay. So let me let's go back.
So when you talk about this certification, the certification and the training are pretty much the same thing. So it's like you go through training for 6 weeks, and at the end of it, when you pass the training, then you're certified? Yeah. Then you're certified in that product. Okay. Got you. So that's the certification. And I wanna be clear because there's a lot of, like, certification programs out there that people look into. That's different.
That's something that has nothing to do when you go to and get your first job as an MSL, you will go through training and you will be either what they call certified or verified. There's like a verification process, that you have to go through, and and then you're ready. You're field ready at that point. Yeah. You're field ready. And then you're like, wow. I did all that studying, you know, you're like a bookworm, and you're like, wow.
Now I need to go out and start meeting people and start talking about all of this wonderful information that I just learned. Well, it's funny. The I did another episode. And if you're interested in in information just like this, it's different, but it's similar. There's an episode called, what do I do on Monday? And it's it's, no. It's a true story about how someone, Bobby Faizan, you know, when he first got an MSL position, he went through the entire training process.
This is exactly where we're at in this story right now with you. And get certified is trained. And right before he would they they closed the meeting, he raised his hand. She says, does anybody have any questions? Like, literally, like, the next day, he was at had to go out and be in himself. And he raised his hand, and he said, yeah. What do I do on Monday? I get trained, and now it's like, okay. Yeah. Now I gotta be an MSL. So pick the story up from there. You get certified. You get trained.
And now what happens after the training? Yeah. So I think there's 2 different components. I mean, there's the actual, okay, territory planning, doing a business plan, mapping out your KOLs. So that's one portion. And then the other portion is kind of people talk about as the art of MSLing, so how to be an MSL. So I think I'll start with actually the territory mapping and planning because I think that's really important for new MSLs to understand because you're so right.
It's after you get trained and all of that studying and now it's like, now what? Well, so as far as territory mapping and planning, you you basically do a business plan. And, one of my wonderful mentors, Ari, always says that as an MSL, you are the CEO of your territory. You're in charge of it.
So and she's totally right and spot on with that because now, you know, depending on what your territory, if you have multiple states, a smaller region, depending on the company, you need to be able to identify, okay, what are key institutions within that state and within that area. And then from there, you know, there's this whole other process of, okay, identifying the different health care, facilities and clinics and hospitals.
And then, alright, who are the actual physicians within your therapeutic area? Are they tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 KOLs? And I I'm sure some of you might be asking you're wondering what is a KOL? So it's a key opinion leader. And that just stands for someone who is very influential within, you know, that your therapeutic area, who is out there prescribing. And then there's differences and variances between tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 KOLs. Awesome. Alright. So you, you're getting out there.
I love the CEO of your territory thing. I've I've definitely heard that before, and I think it's an awesome way to describe it because I think that when you can establish yourself, as an entrepreneur, almost an entrepreneur, like, in within a company, and you realize that you're responsible for the way your territory runs, you're gonna handle it like it's your own business, which I think is awesome. So you have this network or these these KOLs that you're responsible for, and you get out there.
And now it's time to, like, really be an MSL. And I know that you and I talked about, like, there's an art to it. Right? There's there's like the art of MS selling. So tell tell us how you've discovered some of those, you know, some of that art form and and how it worked for you? Yeah. I think, you know, I throughout my life, I I've always been a a people person, and I think that plays into your favor if you are more sociable sociable and, you know, really like talking to people.
But I think one of the key things is really making that initial connection with the KOL. I think hands down and I you know, I've had good meetings and I've had bad meetings. And, the meetings that don't go as well, I always sit back and reflect and think, you know, we I wish I connected more with them in the beginning, or maybe I got nervous and dove into the data too much or talk shop too much too quick.
So I I think, you know, everyone's human at the end of the day regardless if they're, you know, the chief physician at this prestigious institute. You know, they're they're human. Talk talk say, how's your day? You know, where do you live? How's your family? Find something to really connect with them and just to show that you're appreciative of their time.
The whole idea of being an MSL is forming these relationships and, you know, hopefully, that you're able to relay, gather insights, and relay the data with them. That's super important. But the most important thing is being able to follow-up again. Can you meet with them again in 6 months? So what helps with that is or, you know, 3 months, whatever your timeline is, what helps with that is really establishing that initial connection.
So, you know, just being a human and find finding some way to really bond with that other person that you're talking with. Awesome. That's such great advice. And I think that the key, really, and one of the separating factors with good MSLs and great MSLs is relationships. That's really the key. Yeah. Because we always hear about, well, access is so difficult. It's so hard to get access. Well, the people that have the best relationships don't have a problem with access.
Now I know in the beginning, it's tough. I'm jumping a little further ahead. But I think the point of the matter is you hit the nail on the head in in saying that establishing the relationship is the key. Absolutely. From the beginning. It is. And don't be afraid to some of my meetings, you know, depending, they'll give you 15 minutes or they'll give you a half hour. And one time I was talking to a physician, and I was so nervous. And we just dove into the conversation.
And we we were talking about sports and hockey, and it it was about, like, 18 minutes into the conversation. And we're like, oh my gosh. And he's like, I I'm so sorry. We got so deep in it, you know, talking off topic. And I said, no. I love this talk. And I just said I I appreciate it. It it made the conversation more interesting. So then the last 10 minutes of our conversation, we were really able to get down to the business aspect of it.
But, you know, don't be afraid to that especially for your first meeting, don't be afraid to take, you know, more than half of your time to just establish that connection. I found that very beneficial as I started to become an MSL. I'm really able now I I'm an MSL for almost a year, and I'm following up on a lot of those relationships and meeting with some of the same people again. And I think connecting with them initially has helped me reget a second, 3rd, 4th meeting.
Well, I think that's that's critical. That first meeting is really critical. So maybe walk us through that a little bit. Like, in if there's, you know, people listening that either are new MSLs or aspiring MSLs, what what's your system for that first KOL meeting, and what advice do you have for some of these folks? Yeah. That that's a great question, Tom. I so I like to kind of break it down into 3 components for when I'm prepping for a meeting.
So there's prepping for the meeting, so doing your homework. There's executing, so actually having the meeting. And then I like to say conquering. So after the meeting, you know, that that follow-up, and really reflection. So as as far as prepping for the meeting, I I think it's important that you do your homework and do your research on the KOL.
Whether they spoke at a conference or whether they just published depending on the physician or, you know, the health care provider, find something to show that you you looked them up and, you know, you did your background work and you know what specialty they're in. I think that's very important. And then depending, you know, your therapeutic area, what type of physician they are, what what data are you, you know, going to reactively share with them? What questions are you gonna ask them?
You know, use open ended questions. Make them do more of the converse you know, do make them do more of the speaking. I think it's so important to be more of an active listener and to be able to gather their insights and make making them feel comfortable. So, you know, after you do your background work and then it's time, you know, you're in the meeting. So this is someone random normally. So how are you gonna gain credibility and gain their trust?
So, really, again, forming a relationship and just showing that you are you are human and making that, you know, friendship and that relationship. And then that's when you start to normally I start to build the story of, you know, I'm, the this is our pipeline. This is our product portfolio. I talk about my clinical experience just to share with them, you know, I I'm a pharmacist by training. That that was my background and connecting on that.
And, really, the best advice is to listen to the KOLs needs. You know, let them drive the conversation. See where it goes, and just be ready to hang on tight to that train and follow the the railroad wherever it takes you. And then, yeah. Lastly, then just following up. Just really, I always follow-up with them and see, you know, hey. This was an awesome conversation.
Is there anybody else that you think would be beneficial that I could talk to or that I could help or mentor or teach or share some data, you know, try and plan the next meeting, and then really just reflecting. How did it go? What went well? What didn't go well? Do I do you need to brush up on some of your skills, etcetera? Yeah. That's such a great system. I love that. And and that isn't like, guys, I think what's really important is, the this isn't like kind of a alright. Well, I'm an MSO.
I'm gonna kinda wing it. Like Mhmm. Sam has a cyst sounds like she's got a system for everything. Yeah. And and being that organized and systematic is what it takes to be the CEO of your territory. So I think that's really good advice, and I think that it's important to, as you're getting started, to really be super organized, develop a system. And if you don't really have one, you should probably ask some others what is been working for them so that you can Mhmm.
Come up to speed quickly, and figure out what's gonna be best for you. Does that make sense? Yeah. No. You you were spot on, Tom, with that. And, you know, be being new, there's no silly questions. And I I know everyone says that, but you wanna exceed and and do great things as an MSL. Right? You just got this role and you should be so thrilled or for all those aspiring MSLs out there. So ask questions. Ask questions for your friends, your colleagues, your teammates, ask your manager.
You know, everybody had to start somewhere. So ask ask tips what went well, what doesn't go well. You know, I I have this that I'm nervous about. You know, give me some tips. Just using your resources. There's so many resources out there, whether it's material online or just colleagues. Don't be afraid to ask for help for sure. Yep. Good stuff. So let's talk about insights.
I I I think that's something that's really important for a newer MSL or aspiring MSL to be aware of, understand, and realize it's a thing. So what are insights, and why are they important? Yeah. Absolutely. So that is kind of one of the main roles of an MSL.
So an insight is really something that an MSL will go out into the field and, you know, something that the physician will say or do or something that's unique or even their opinion on the the product, whatever that may be, or they're, you know, using duplicate therapy or having these side effects.
So what you do as an MSL, you take that insight, what that health care provider is saying, and you bring that back to the company and that ultimately affects strategy on commercial, market, you know, clinical development. It's it's really key. So as an MSL, you're able to connect with your local territory and figure out what's going on out there. What are these KOLs actually seeing? Is is the product working? Is it not working? Are they having these side effects?
You know, is there another mechanism of action with your product and is it could it be used for another disease state? It's it's incredible some of the things that you'll uncover as an MSL that a physician just had one patient or a group of patients experience, and you get to bring that back to your team and it's it's incredible. And I I think it's, you know, there's an art to that too.
Yes. So I think that the the better the earlier of an adopter you are to be really good at gathering good insights and reporting insights, the better you're gonna be at being an MSL. Because that's one of the things I see. It takes people a while to really get comfortable with being insightful, meaning getting good at MSL insights, reporting them back, reporting them back consistently, not waiting too long to do the reporting because then you're not really capturing what's most important.
So I know that that's a key. And the other you know, it's it's funny. A couple of things I was thinking about with this conversation is, you know, what am I asked from newer MSLs or aspiring MSLs? And that was one. And the other thing and, you know, we have I think I told you, we have a coaching program for aspiring MSLs. It's actually called aspire MSL. And one of the things that we talked about in our coaching call this week was, was cross collaboration and cross functional partners for MSLs.
And a lot of I I'm, I'm always surprised that this comes, this isn't common knowledge for a lot of aspiring MSLs and newer MSLs. They don't realize how much cross functional collaboration there is with other counterparts within the organization. So can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, again, I'm coming up on my my year of MSL, so it may be different depending on your company or where you at you're at. But that's one of my favorite parts of being an MSL.
Not only that, you're able to meet the different positions in your territory and, you know, attend conferences and things like that, but you're actually able to meet other colleagues in different departments. So, for instance, you know, as an MSL, you can work with your commercial colleagues. There's a lot of you know, you have to depending on your company, there's compliance and different things like that you have to be mindful of.
But even as far as if you're having trouble meeting a KOL and your commercial counterpart has access into there, whether it's, you know, administrative assistant or someone to reach that KOL. You can leverage your commercial counterpart and work together to have an introduction meeting and have it have that introductory meeting and be able to gain access in there. There's also you could work with your regulatory counterparts on working on different PowerPoints and medical information.
So within there's medical affairs and then there's also medical information. So they're the ones who actually create all of the field material for you as an MSL that you're able to use and, you know, whether it's your laptop or your PowerPoint, you're able to pull up the data fast and be able to speak to that on your laptop or computer. And, so you get to work, you know, if you depending on your company, you could actually create that.
I've had I've had some experience actually creating some of the different field material and sharing my thoughts of, you know, what should we put on this slide or so you could work with medical information and you could work with regulatory. And then, I've also had the experience to work with some of our market access team. So there are some of the people who actually influence payers and, you know, insurance companies and depending on the institution. You know?
And that is to me, that is so important and such an awesome experience because when you work with market access as an MSL, you not only have to be able to share the data and understand it and communicate it, but you need to effectively and strategically share the data because you're speaking to these payers who could it could ultimately affect their formulary. You know?
Are they only prescribing your agent for x, y, and z when your agent has a, you know, multiple therapeutic areas or off label or, you know, the guidelines were just updated? So you can go in as an MSL and, you know, make just wow them and share that information and update them, and that could ultimately affect their formulary, which then could trickle down to millions of patients. So really helping expand access for your drug. That's one of my favorite things to do.
Well, I could tell you just from hearing you, it I I'm sure you're very good at it. And, guys, I wish you you you really should watch this on YouTube. If you're listening to this now, watch this on YouTube because you have to see Sam's face. Like, she lights up when she talks about being an MSL. Sam, tell everybody, you you obviously love what you do. And you have you said that to me. So share your feelings about this profession. Yeah. I I do. I it's funny.
A lot of my old colleagues and coworkers will call and say, Sam, how would you break in? You know, you're one of maybe 1 or 2 folks from our pharmacy class that that broke in. How'd you do it? And I actually just talked to one of my old, classmates. We hadn't spoke maybe in 6 years, and we connect with last week. And he's like, thank you so much. You know, I I really appreciate all of the advice, and I'm gonna utilize all of these tips.
And then he starts laughing and he goes, I could just tell in your voice how happy you are and how much you enjoy your job. And I said, it's the most incredible rewarding job, I think, in the world, especially for a pharmacist. You're utilizing all of the skills that you learned in school and that you've learned on the job whether you've done clinical pharmacy.
And now you're able to take that and share that data and interact with people and from all over, travel to new places and just have a broader impact. And it does. It makes me proud to say that I'm an MSL and that I get to do this every day. So for all of you new folks out there, don't give up. I mean, like I said, I submitted over 70 applications. It it's a lot of hours put in, but all it takes is, you know, someone to give you a shot, and I think it's the best career in the world.
You're an inspiration, Sam. You really are, And you did an amazing job today on this podcast. And I thank you for sharing your story and and, and all of your your amazing insights. I I I really wish you all the best, and, I think you're gonna kill you're gonna be a killer. You're gonna be a a MSL superstar. Thank you. I hope that's the goal. And thank you, Tom, just for today and for your you know, I I remember graduating school.
And when I was at that first pharmaceutical department, she was, have you ever heard of Tom Carbella? I was 22 years old. I said, no. She's like, follow him on LinkedIn. So, you know, you have just been an inspiration and a mentor and throughout all of your podcasts and everything that you do to support the field of medical affairs, thank you. Thank you for helping people like us. Well, I love you guys. I'm rooting for each and every one of you.
I hope you got a lot out of this episode, and, I wish you all the best. And, Sam, we'll have to cut you have to come back on in a in, like, a few years from now or whatever, a few months from now or something. And we'll do like a, you know, a status update and see how you're doing when you get promoted to, like, you know, king, queen of the world or whatever it is that comes next for you. So good luck, guys. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Thanks. Bye, everyone. Take care.
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