Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Claudia Barube. She's in MSL Quebec for Ashfield Engage. And her boss, Jeffrey Vaughn, is also with us. Just been on this podcast many times. And we talk about her story and transition into her role as a Canadian MSL versus what it's like to be a US MSL. So really interesting conversation. I think you guys are gonna enjoy it. Don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn.
Check us out on YouTube as well, and join us for MSL talk live, which is the 1st Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM EST. Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Claudia and Jeff. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you, guys, for joining me. How are you? Good. Thank you. And you? I'm great. Doing great, Tom. Thanks for having me back. Really excited to have you guys on. And this is a guys, this is a topic.
People ask me all the time, how to transition to an MSL role internationally. Like, so there's a lot of folks that listen to this podcast that are in we're we're, I think, 78 different countries right now. And a lot of people, have questions about what it's like to be an MSL in other countries, to transition from other countries to become an MSL in the US. I don't know if we're gonna cover every single piece of that.
But I think that this is a really good topic to be able to give people insights on the differences between an MSL that broke into the market in Canada, and how you got there. But also, the nuances between what it's like to be an MSL in, you know, in Canada versus US or maybe, you know, other countries. So we're gonna get into that. Why don't we start with some introductions? And many of you that have listened to this podcast already know Jeff.
So I'm gonna have Claudia go first and then Jeff, you can go second. Thank you, Tom. So I am currently an MSL, so employee of Ashfield, and I currently have a contract for a small global pharma company dedicated to women's health and also rare disease based in Canada. And I started, you know, in August 2021, so I'm still a brand new MSL. Got you. And, Jeff? Hi, Tom. And as you were, saying before, this has been, a couple different options with us going into podcast.
And I work for Asheville Engage, oversee, medical affairs in the MSL space for our company and, both in the US and in Canada. And just happy to be here, happy to contribute. And I think, in terms of a unique, topic, this is this is great to touch on, as you were saying earlier, to give a perspective from a different, side of the country. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I'm excited to get into it. I'm excited to have you back on, Jeff and Claudia. Jeff, has been just a a fan favorite.
He he always does an amazing job. And, and, actually, this episode is sponsored by Ashfield Engage. So I appreciate you guys coming on and sponsoring. And for those of you guys that don't know, Ashfield Engage is actually a part of Inisio Engaged and Engage.
And they are a commercialization and strategic engagement partner for the health care industry delivering solutions to meet the needs of patients, providers, payers, and pharmaceutical companies to improve the treatment experience and outcomes. Asheville Engage, just so you guys know, for those of you guys aren't aware, creates personalized impactful experience and delivers an average of 5,000,000 engagements annually across all health care stakeholders. So these guys are awesome.
Check them out online. For more information, go to ashfieldengage, dotcom. So, guys, excited to talk about this topic. Claudia, I'm gonna start with you. And I wanna talk about your background and your experience and kinda how you made this transition. Yes. So I have a background in a bachelor. So I have a bachelor degree in microbiology, also a master in pharmaceutical science and tissue engineering more specifically from Laval University. So I'm based in Quebec City in Canada.
So very French, French, part of Canada. And I also did a micro program in pharmaceutical LeBlanc from the faculty of pharmacy. And I started in 2016 in pharma industry where I started as a sales rep. So my background was, you know, couple years as a sales and I made the transition in 2021, to be an MSL. And you know basically I remember during my, you know, my undergraduate year and during my bachelor I never heard about the MSL job.
So I think I just heard about it like a couple years ago like when I was promoted to the position of specialist representative And to be honest, I think I was immediately drowned, you know, attracted by the MSL job. So you alright. So you're a sales rep, and then you learn about the MSL position. Yeah. And then you say, so you're attracted. So what? So you just decided, okay. I'm gonna transition from being a sales rep to try to be an MSL.
And how did that tell us a because I know a lot of people are gonna be interested in how that happened. Oh god. It wasn't an easy journey. So, you know, I remember, you know, I always question myself. So how you can jump the wall from, you know, commercial to medical? Because this wall is quite high and nobody really talks about, you know, this wall when you are in the commercial part. So everyone talk it when you are in the medical part.
And I remember, you know, I had many discussion with people from commercial, from medical, and some of them told me it's impossible first to jump this wall or to do the transition. And other told me that I will have probably less credibility in front of, you know, KOL because my experience as a sales rep, but that didn't stop me. And, you know, I remember it was a very long process so I applied on many many many job out there and nobody really thoroughly called me.
And I remember you know the day that you know Asheville, the lady from Asheville HR called me and told me that my profile was interesting. I probably applied before that on 20 different jobs, and only, like, 3 of them called me. So, yes, it was a very, very long journey. It takes probably several weeks, not to say months, without, you know, airing nothing from all the resume that I sent and everything. But yes, it was a really really tough journey.
Very happy right now with, you know, MSL for mostly year enough. So, yes, I think it was the best decision ever to to do this jump. Well and your story is not uncommon. I I think for everybody listening out there, it's hard. It's that's that's the the big challenge. I think that's part of the reason why so many people listen to this podcast is because there's a lot of information for people that are looking to find ways to break into the role. So I think it's important.
And what I'm hearing you say is that you made up your mind. You wanted to do this. You applied to a whole bunch of positions. You were very persistent. You were patient. It sounds like you're a patient to an extent. Right? Not in my personal life. No. In my, you know, work life. Yes. I'm a patient. So do you think it was just a matter of you, being in the right place at the right time? Was there any did you know someone at, like what what do you think made the difference?
Yes. I think first, you need to be patient and, you know, preparation is the key. So we need to be honest about that. You know, the interview process for MSL job is quite important. So you meet different people from HR, from, you know, different level in the company, and at the end of the interview process, you need to do this scientific presentation. And I like to see myself like, you know, an FBI agent, so I want to know everything.
You need to know everything about the company, about the product, about the study that you are, you know, presented in the, scientific presentation. But yes, I think, you know, you need to be prepared. So preparation is the key here, but yes, it's a mix of good preparation and probably a little bit of luck because I I meet, you know, Jeff and I think we are already this, you know, amazing connection.
But, yes, I think you need to show also that you care about this job and you want to have this job. Yeah. So you put it together. You obviously did a great job. You put it together. So you become an MSL. So let's talk about like, start getting into this conversation of the differences and, and that sort of thing. So let's talk about your territory. Obviously, when you're a sales rep, your territories look a certain way. Usually, they're a lot smaller. You become an MSL.
Territories are typically bigger. But what I'm curious. What territory do you do you cover? How large is it? And how do territories differ in Canada versus the US? So it's kind of gonna be a multifaceted question with a bunch of different Yes. But I think, you know, the answer is super simple because I'm covering the entire Canada. So I'm covering from, you know, the British Columbia to Quebec City and everything in between. But, you know, yes, it's always different from a company to another.
It's always different from, the therapeutic field you're working in. But, you know, yes, for me, I'm working to the Ontario Canada, many different time zone also. So you need to be, you know, flexible. You need to be super well organized. So always, always. Because I'm, you know, with the time zone, everyone is 3 hours or 2 hours behind me. Right. Which means that if, you know, a KOL in British Columbia want to meet me after a very long day at 7 or 8 PM, it's 10 or 11 PM for me.
But, you know, I think it's also the beauty of working as an MSL. It's not a regular 8 to 5 job. So, yes, it's something different. And, you know, for the US probably, it's also different. So probably Jeff can give give us a little insight of what this looks like to be an MSL in in the US. Well, yeah, Jeff, I was gonna ask you. In your experience, is that common? Are territories ex US? So in other countries, are territories typically that large? Yeah. They are.
They tend to be, particularly up in Canada with our partners because, you know, there are concentrations of where are the key opinion leaders reside, and that would be in the bigger cities. And Canada is broken up into so many different provinces. But ideally, it's new territory when we have partnerships with US based pharma companies that are looking to build out scientific support in Canada. And what I've seen repetitively in a pattern is the teams are very small, Tom.
So 1 to 2 MSLs occasionally get a 3rd, but they are covering the large territories. And strategically, you want somebody in Toronto. You want someone that's in Quebec. And, Claudia can allude to this a little bit more, but depending on what part of Canada you live in, but the language is either French or English based. So, ideally, you want to have someone that is bilingual to in Claudia's case, she is.
So she's able to cover more of the territory and switch gears to cover, like, the Quebec side, which is more French speaking Mhmm. And, also the English side in Toronto. So I think what you find is large territories. And I would say it's a little different in Europe, although European MSLs will cover more than one country. Canada is a little different in terms of its geo.
And typically, you're covering a lot of the well, the 2 or 3 major cities in in the country, but then also having the flexibility to cover the outer provinces if there are KLLs that are residing there. So, large territories. But to Claudia's point about being organized, I think particularly in Canada, there's you have to be, you know, you have to have your stuff buttoned up and know from a strategic standpoint where your first move is going to be or your second move.
Yeah. And I think the reason this is so significant and why I wanted to cover it is because you need to know what you're signing on for when you're an MSL and you hear about the MSL role. It sounds great. But depending on where you are in the world, you have to find out, well, what size territory am I covering? Are there different time zones within that territory? Are there different languages that I need to be prepared for in that territory?
You know, there's nuances that you just need to understand. So it's interesting, Claudia, from you. I'm sure you came from a really small territory or much smaller territory into this huge geography that you now need to navigate. Is that accurate? Yes. And it was only in French. So, you know, basically, the first 4 or 5 years I was working in pharma was exclusively in French.
And for sure when you go from cell to MSL, you want to have, you know, a certain linguistic level to show that you're still a smart one in English. So it's it's a main, like, I will not say issue, but a great challenge for me to, you know, switch French and English always and try to, you know, navigate in this scientific word in English. So, yes, it's, it's, like, a huge transition for me.
Yeah. Well, one of the other things that we need to talk about when we look at differences in different, you know, MSLs in different countries, is the drug development process and federal health agencies. So here in the US, we have the FDA, and we have this drug development process that can be pretty intricate. There's different phases to it, and we're not gonna get into that. But I do wanna know what exists in Canada, and how does that work?
Yes. So, you know, in Canada, the FDA in Canada is called Health Canada. So it's include different, you know, federal law and, you know, cultural and also pharmaceutical industry. And like you say, we don't want people to fall asleep here. So let's just say that in term of general procedure leading to approval of a new drug, both FDA and Health Canada are, you know, similar in the general process. But both agencies are independent.
So for a pharma company, you want to, you know, add its product on the market, you need to go through every single step in FDA if you want it on the US, but also same step for Health Canada. And it's interesting also to know that they are, yes, independent and, you know, it's not because a product that has been approved in the US that it will be in Canada.
And we can apply the same analogy to the indication, the contraindication, and all the clinical studies that we found in, you know, the prescribing information and product monograph, which, you know, sometimes add a great challenge. So for me, I'm covering also sometimes training for new member in the US, and I need to take in account the different, you know, in the indication, contraindication, and, you know, in the prescribing information in the US that we have in Canada.
So, yes, it's another great challenge to work globally in a company that also have, you know, activity in the US. Yeah. There's layers. So there's clearly layers to it, which makes it hard. Obviously, you're navigating through a lot of different, you know, rules, regulations, and, you know, compliance and and regulatory is is gonna be different, in different countries.
And but what about one of the things I definitely wanna talk about is what are the different responsibilities for MSLs outside the US? So how does your job as an MSL differ from the job of an MSL in the United States? I love this question because first, I'm probably different than other MSL because I'm working for a smaller pharma company which allow me to be involved in tasks outside the usual one we know for MSL like, you know, KOL relationship and gathering insight.
So being part of a small group allow me to be involved in tasks like advisory board. And when we talk about, you know, an advisory board, usually it's like, you know, it's a meeting of 2, 3, 4 hours and, no. It's a huge process. So being part of every single step of an advisory board like literature review, like developing the slide deck, and also being involved in tasks like medical training of all new member in the company, both in Canada and US.
No. It's something that is not the common responsibility of an MSL. And like you say, Tom, you need to ask the question in the interview process. Like, what is the job of the MSL in the company? Which task? Which responsibility you're involved? Because I think you're, in this perfect fit for me, but another MSL will think about, no. It's not the best job for me. So, yes, it's always depending on the task you're involved in.
Yep. And, Jeff, what about so from your perspective as as an MSL and medical affairs leader, what do you see as some of the differences in responsibilities and leadership? What you have to do to to help the MSLs find success in other countries. Yeah. I mean, most of the time from a leadership perspective, you know, the clients are usually US based. Okay. And have just recently received a Health Canada approval for a drug.
Mhmm. So, the conversations at the top tend to be more strategic in in nature. And one of the questions is really just knowing where to put these individual team members within the GO. Mhmm. Again, and I've heard earlier to this about, like, taking someone in from a larger province, you know, and covering that geo, for example, Toronto, and then someone from Quebec, and then tiering out the the the KOL list, finding out, so, sort of who the top tier folks are within that therapeutic area.
So, those discussions are usually, talked about, planned, 9 times out of 10, the drug's already been approved by Health Canada. At this point, it's sort of like building those relationships. So, from a job perspective, I think the MSL role in many ways mimics what we have in the US in terms of relationship building Got it. And bringing back meaningful insights to the company. I think where it changes a bit is really on the strategic, ground that you have to cover with the territories.
And that's why what we want to look for is someone that, a, has a good background of Health Canada, how the the payer space works because, you know, obviously, up in Canada, it's very different than what we Socialized medicines. Exactly. Exactly. So, you have to know that process pretty well. Right. Right?
And to Claudia's point about being a smaller company, you know, I would say yes and no, because we do have large companies that want to get that do get approvals and, you know, for US and Canada. And the teams are small in general.
But where it differs a bit is there's a lot more autonomy if it's a US based company trying to support with field medical and commercial, across the border because they're relying on a lot of that knowledge of the payer space, the GO, and what we want to do is find someone that is like Claudia that's very organized, knows the territories really well, obviously has, connections within the therapeutic area that she can establish immediately and build upon that.
But, ideally, there are a lot of similarities and the differences really lie upon just the geography and the provinces and sort of planning out where your priorities are, from within that geography. Right. If that makes sense. And by the way, I I Claudia, I hear you're pretty darn good at your job. Just saying. That's what I heard. I don't know. I'm just saying. Heard you're pretty darn good.
So let's talk just before we get into something some other topics, I wanted to just get was there anything else, Claudia, that you feel is unique to your role as an MSL in Canada versus what a US MSL might do? Just out of curiosity. I don't say that is unique, but yes. Because probably I'm covering, you know, the entire country. Usually, I need help, and I'm the only MSL working to, this company right now. And I like to have the help of the reps.
And, you know, I don't want to put controversy in your show, Tom. So I know that there is a wall between commercial and medical, but I think when, you know, everyone know the boundaries or the limit of their job, you know, the reps can be our best ally on the field. So I cannot know everything about, you know, Saskatoon and Halifax and I cannot be everywhere. And because I have, you know, prior experience as a self, I know that they know everything about their their territory.
They know how to how long it takes before seeing a specialist physician. You know, they know everything. So I think one of the thing is we we don't work in kind of silo. So we still respect the wall and, you know, Asheville and the 3rd party company I'm working with, everybody respect the wall. But I think we can still share some, you know, information regarding the KOL because we work a lot in virtual environment.
And I think having this, you know, information also help to show that you care about the physician you are, working with. And I think it's also outbuilding stronger relationship in this, you know, virtual area. Yep. So curious, how how do you get evaluated? How do metrics work? Obviously, you have this huge territory, and you have the the responsibility of of engaging with and calling on KOLs. But I'm just curious. How are you, you know, how how do your metrics work?
How do how does that part of it play into it in Canada? It's a tough question. I was, you know, thinking about this question because, yes, you know, I have specific QPR regarding, you know, inside collection and regarding the number of, you know, KOL I need to, meet on weekly basis. But again, because I, this great lot to be involved in many other projects, you know, I like to keep in mind, like, the medical strategy set by the company.
It's like, you know, it's one of my way of, you know, knowing if I'm doing a great job or not. So I think, you know, like every MSL out there, my obligation, my project change from, you know, in a weekly basis. So I keep the strategy medical strategy in mind. And also I'm still a new MSL. So I like to, you know, weekly meet my director. So I like to meet, you know, probably 1, 2 times per month, Jeffrey.
I like also to, you know, meet my other boss in the 3rd party company every single week just to be sure that I'm always in line with, you know, everyone in every project because, yes, we cover big country. We cover many different products. So it's it can be easy to just, you know, be in completely the opposite direction the company wants you to be. So yes. Yeah. Well, listen. I mean, the reason I ask is there's that expression. What gets measured gets managed.
You know, how's Jeff gonna help you if you don't have any any benchmarks or measurements or systems of being able to say, hey. You're doing a great job, or here's where you need an area of improvement. Jeff, what do you think about this? I'm glad you asked, Tom, because, I think in many ways, KPIs metrics are responsibilities of both the MSL, but I would almost put more of an onus on leadership to help align with that.
Because there are some hard numbers, hard metrics that I think all of us are familiar with. Mhmm. And I don't feel like there's enough stress being put on the strategy piece of it and helping with the development of the MSLs in the field by highlighting some of the strategic accomplishments that their teams can do and what Claudia has demonstrated. So, going back to the specifics of Claudius and her role, I actually communicate with the medical director once a month, and there's a report.
It has the numbers, how many meetings she's had. But let's say it's 10 insights per month. I'm just throwing a number out there. You, as a leader, should be looking for other opportunities and dis and part of that is starts with the conversation with your MSLs and going, hey. Look. Tell me about what you're doing outside the box.
Like, how many of these meetings are you having that are, let's say, working with commercial, you know, and let's say it's an educational piece where you're actually attending a scientific seminar. What are you bringing back from that? What did you do task wise? You can help engineer the strategy piece with your MSLs outside of just the numbers. And I get a lot of clients that ask about, you know, from a global perspective, they're asking, where do we go next with our strategy?
How do we make medical affairs stand out? Right. Part of that is communicating with your field MSLs and saying, hey, outside of just, you know, a meeting that you have, what else are you bringing back? And how can we craft that that space that's affiliated with a strategy point? Right. That typically is what raises the eyebrows up from people outside of the medical affairs arena. Sure. Absolutely. It's it's that word, value. Right? It all comes down to value. Good stuff, guys.
This is this is awesome. So, Claudia, I wanna get back to you. And what are the challenges that you're faced with right now as an MS? And then, you know, I'm asking you this as an MSL in Canada, but this is a question that really would apply to any MS. I'm just curious. In your world, what are the challenges you're faced with right now? You know, we just talked about it, but I think the first challenge I encounter was, yes, the language barrier.
So, you know, every single day I need to work, you know, on the scientific part on, you know, but also on my ability to explain things in English. So, yes, it's my first challenge and still one that I face every single day. 2nd one, the big territory we just talked about. So I try to be more organized as possible. I always try to be flexible. I try to ask the app also to other department and you know, within the company.
And the other one is, you know, I make the transition from, you know, commercial to medical and it's it's a learning curve. So and I want to be honest on it. So I will be well, I can open book about it because I struggle a little bit at the beginning to be honest. The job is completely different. So I was struggling like what can I share by email? How can we share it? So they're always like, you know, ethical and regulatory procedure you need to follow.
So it's a learning curve and I, you know, read many times the medical affairs SOPs. I always, you know, ask advice to Jeffrey, to my, you know, medical director. There are also, you know, organizations out there can give you training about that. But, yes, it's a learning curve. It's not like easy, you know, I'm not a salesperson and right now I'm an MSL. No. It's it's still a gray zone. So, yes, I will say that it's sometimes it's still, you know, something that I need to ask advice about.
Can I do this thing or, you know, I'm allowed to share that by email? So, yes, it's it's still a learning curve, let's say. Yeah. Well, and that that happens. Right? With with any position, there's always that learning curve. I think it was just a little you know, there's some nuances and challenges for you coming from the commercial world over to medical affairs. Yes. But what about, access and FaceTime?
And having such a large territory, getting out there, are your KOLs more looking for virtual engagement? Are you able to set up meetings? Tell talk to us about that piece of it. So I'm almost embarrassed to say it, but, you know, I didn't face any any challenge regarding accessibility. Mhmm. And it's probably because of I'm thinking 2 separate things. The first one, when I started in 2021, we were in the middle of pandemic and Canada was super strict.
Like, hospital, all medical clinic were closed. So everyone, you know, requests to have virtual meeting instead of face to face. And it's probably also because the company that I'm working with launched drip product in the same year. So, you know, everyone was looking for, you know, scientific presentation or medical information or support. So I think it's was just a great timing for me. And I still do a lot of my job remotely, like almost 95 to 100 percent of the time.
And you know, I think it's the perfect fit for me because you know every single time you travel to, you know, Ontario and after that to British Columbia, I think you lost a little bit of your time on the road and instead of working at home, I can woke up very early in the morning like at 5. You know, I can manage my professional life, my personal life. So for me it's the Vex fit and also the KOL request to have virtual meeting.
So yes, if you know a person KOL want to meet me in face to face and you know Manitoba, it's no problem. But let's say, like, 95% of the time, they request, you know, virtual, virtual meeting. And, Jeff, how do you feel about that? Are you encouraging your MSLs to get more live engagement? Are you okay with the virtual engagement? Yeah. Great question, Tom. I'm old school, and, you know, nothing takes away from a face to face meeting.
Mhmm. And I know that we have had to learn our lessons gradually with COVID, and we were forced our hands were forced to communicate by virtual means. I think from an efficiency standpoint, it makes sense the larger your territory is, probably that needle has moved more over to the virtual side because you wanna cover as much ground as you can and not be on a plane all day trying to attend meetings.
This is where the strategy and planning piece, I think, comes into play with really large territories, is finding out where your key counts are and nesting there and trying to have those face to face meetings more frequently where there's a higher concentration of people that you can get to. So going back to the ratio, I think it's very dependent on the territory that's covered Mhmm. From an efficiency standpoint, whether it's in the US or Canada.
But I also want to foot stomp that, you know, face to face meetings are you know, with us going back to more of a normal way of communicating, I'm starting to see more companies make the directive to say, hey. I want the team out there, you know, having the meetings, engaging with them, face to face versus via virtual means. So I think it's taking a little bit of retraining. Sure. You know? At least in the US, it's train it's retraining those teams to say, alright.
Don't forget about the value that you can the added value that you can bring to a meeting face to face. And, yes, there is always going to plea be a place because we've already we can't unlearn, you know, Zoom or Teams. That'll always I don't think that'll ever go away, but at least in the US and even in Europe, I've started to see a migration go back to least maybe more of a 5050, you know, mix.
Yeah. But in in relations to what Claudia is doing in Canada and and how large the country is, it would make sense that probably to what you were talking about earlier, Claudia, when you came on, you were in the middle of COVID, everything was restrictive. Canada kind of held on to that restriction a little later, you know, in terms of the vaccination of the population. So what we hope to see is maybe more of the face to face meetings, but it's moving a little slower in Canada for that.
And the fact that right now, Claudia has such a large territory to cover. It it would also make sense that the majority of the meetings are, virtual. Makes sense. It makes total sense. And and I think that that's a smart directive. And, and if they're like you said, Claudia, if you're not having any trouble with access and they're open to the meetings as long as they're virtual, then that makes sense. But, Jeff, I'm old school like you, man. I I do. I like to meet people.
And, guys, I I I've I got to know Jeff. Did a couple podcasts together. Never met the guy live. First time I met him, I was like, look at this guy. I mean, for for those of you who've never met Jeff Live, he's super tall, but warm and friendly with not just a big handshake, but big hugs. And that's what it's all about. That's how you get from that one step of of knowing somebody. And I'm not saying you're gonna be hugging all your k wells.
I'm just saying I'm just saying that when you're alive, you just get the full feel and that relationship and that that intimacy that you're able to develop takes things to a whole another level. So but you guys hear me talk about that all the time. You guys know I'm a hugger. Anyway, Claudia, I'm gonna let you finish this off by giving you an opportunity to just offer some advice.
What have you learned it as in your time as an MSL that you think is really valuable that you wanna share with everyone? Yes. So I'm thinking about, you know, probably 3 to 4 advice. And my first one is is the preparation. So preparation is the key to success and, you know, I I make the analogy of the FBI agent, but I always see myself like that. Like before meeting a KOL, I want to know everything they publish on Twitter, on LinkedIn, you know.
I want to know every single thing because I think, you know, it showed that you also care about is, you know, is interest and everything. So the preparation is the key to success. Also, I think, and we don't talk about that, but I think you need to be also empathic. And we, you know, the MSL job, it's also human connection. So you need to be empathetic toward, you know, the patient and what they face, but also towards the attending physician.
I think it's also more important regarding the field that I'm currently working in, which is, you know, gynecology. You know, there is, you know, multiple layers. It's not only the medical, condition. It's also affecting, you know, the psychosocial component. It's affecting also sometimes the sexual life, and a lot of patients feel ashamed to talk about it. So I think being empathetic in, you know, this job and more specifically in the field of women's health, it's super, super intel important.
And we talk also about it, but you need to ask question. So if you want to, you know, land in the job of MSL and you are from, you know, a background of commercial, no, this job is is completely different. This job is totally the opposite of the sales. So they either ask questions. And I I remember when I was, you know, looking for this first job in Amacel, my thinking was just I will apply on everything and, you know, the first one to say yes I will, you know, go for it.
But in fact, you know, the task, the responsibility, the territory, everything we just talk about, It's like it's all the job and if you don't like it, you will not like the MSL job.
So I think you need to ask questions during the interview process just to be sure that, you know, it's a perfect fit with, you know, your value, what you're looking for in terms of the job because, you know, MSL job is the best job in the world, but there is many different MSL out there with many different responsibilities. So, yes, I think it will be my 3 main advice. I think that's awesome. I really think that's great advice. And you did a great job today, Claudia. Jeff, you're awesome.
As always, I'm so grateful to have you guys on. And for everyone listening, again, check out Ashfield Engage on, you know, the Internet and, you know, learn more about these guys because they're a force to be reckoned with and they're doing such great work. But I appreciate you both. I wanna wish everyone happy holidays. I don't know when this is gonna come out, but we're in the middle of the holiday season. We're getting close to the New Year.
So I just wanted to express my gratitude towards everyone that's listening and to especially Claudia and Jeff today. You guys are amazing. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much, Tom. And I will use my French language to say. Okay. What does that mean? I wish you a great holiday. So I love it. That's great. It's great seeing you, Tom. Thank you for your partnership as always, and, I'm sure that we'll end up seeing each other and giving each other another hug, get out next year.
But I wish the best for you and your family and to all of our listeners out there. Can't wait. Can't wait for that, Jeff. Thanks again, guys, and we will talk soon. Thanks, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.