Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Welcome to our podcast. Want to have you guys join me in welcoming my very special guest today, field director for MSL's on the hematology oncology team for Janssen Myeloma CAR T. Please welcome Amy Mystic. Hey, Amy. Thanks. Thanks, Tom. So happy to be here. Appreciate you having me, today. Awesome. Awesome. So yeah. So Amy and I know each other for a long time.
I don't know how long, but it's a while. So why don't you start by, maybe introducing yourself and where you're from and all that good stuff? Yeah. Absolutely. So as Tom mentioned, my name is Amy Misnick. I'm a Pharm d by training and background, and I currently live in Buffalo, New York, which is actually, where I grew up. And I'm really lucky to have, my family all nearby. On a personal note, you guys will hear more about my career a little bit later, but I'm married.
My husband and I love to travel, explore new places, experience different cultures and food, and, of course, being from Buffalo, we're both huge Buffalo Bills fans. Of course. Well, I guess I'll let you have that one. I'm a Giant fan. And since we stink now, I'll, I'll just leave it at that. I can't really I can't write too much. So, awesome. And you did you just get back from vacation? I wanna say you were on vacation recently?
Yeah. Actually, we just got back from California, which, it's February. So in Buffalo, there's a lot of snow on the ground and it's freezing. So we usually like to, get away somewhere warm. So I'm feeling very refreshed, and I got some vitamin d and some sunshine. So it was a good trip. Good for you. Awesome. Well, welcome back. So let's talk about, let's talk a little bit about your role and your team and just let love to hear a little bit more share a little bit more about what you do.
Yeah. So I'm currently a regional field director for an MSL team. So primarily my team, I'm responsible for the East Coast region. I have 7 MSLs on my team, and so, of course, primary responsibility is, helping to lead and develop that team, as well as supporting some of our strategy and launch ex launch execution, for our launch products as well as supporting our field medical operations for some of our products as well as, those in the pipeline. Awesome.
Yeah. It's exciting exciting times for you guys. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of good things going on. Awesome. So, you know, a lot of people always act. I think one of the things that people are most intrigued with is, you know, how did you get where you are? You know, what was the transition like? And, you know, how did you get into industry? Mhmm. Yeah. I think that's a really good question, and I love this question because I think it's so different for everyone.
And for me, it was really serendipitous, honestly. So, you know, when I was in pharmacy school, a friend invited me to join her at a fellowship networking event. And at the time, you know, I had no idea what a fellowship was. I really was just going because I think they had free food. And as a college student, that was really enticing to me. At the event, it was actually very eye opening.
It was the first time I learned about anything within the pharmaceutical industry and all the opportunities for a Pharm d within the industry. And so it was really at that event when a light bulb went off for me that, you know, this is what I wanna do, and and this is what I need to do, I think, with my career. During that event, they reviewed all the different types of industry positions, and what really spoke to me was medical affairs fellowships, for two reasons.
One of which being that passion for the science and really being close to the science as well as having the opportunity to really collaborate and build relationships. And that communication piece that I feel is is a strength of mine.
And so after that event, I started to research, network, prepare for ASHP midyear, you know, went really strong in the interviews and was fortunate to, yeah, land a postdoctoral fellowship with Janssen Oncology, specifically through Rutgers University within the medical affairs space. Wow. That's an awesome story. There's so there's probably people out there listening to be like, oh my god. Why can't that happen to me? You know?
There's a lot of job seekers that are struggling, quite frankly, to to find their first role. So and that's that's actually why I one of the reasons I wanted to start this podcast, because I wanted to be able to help people and share stories like yours. It's an awesome, awesome story. It shows the power of networking, which we're gonna talk about. Actually, that's gonna be our topic today. Yeah. We'll get into that in a second. But I love that.
You know, you started out, you know, networking and, you know, knew that you had it in your heart to wanna do it and it came together. So congratulations on all your success. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. I think I got really lucky too to to find and kind of stumble upon the fellowship program when I was still in school.
I know a lot of people don't find it till after, but I I do know of some folks who go back to the fellowship program after they've been and whether that's the clinical setting or they're in retail or whatever it might be that they really find out about it later. But coming back to it, I think, is always an option too. Yeah. So you think that's do you think that's the key for folks that are out there right now? Would you say seek out that type of fellowship program as a a foot in the door kinda?
Yeah. I think the fellowship is an amazing opportunity to get your foot in the door. I think the longer you are kind of out of pharmacy school, the more difficult that might be just because you're maybe more established in a role, and you may have to take a step back from a salary perspective. So I think that can be tough sometimes, but certainly is a great avenue to just get started.
And then once you're in the industry, just learning more about all of the different opportunities, available, I think, is a great way to to jump start. Got you. So you do your fellowship. You, you transition. You get your first role as an MSL. And Yeah. So tell us about that. Did you love being an MSL? Yeah. So, my fellowship, I actually worked in a home office type setting in medical affairs. And, you know, after my fellowship, I had the opportunity to do that full time for a bit.
And then I I have to say kinda how I got the MSL role was, you know, networking was certainly a a big piece of that. I think at the time, I was really focused on, developing medical education content so that science science piece was there as well as managing a speakers bureau, having those engagement with key opinion leaders.
And so the MSL role was a really nice step to leverage some of the skills that I had learned within medical education while also giving me a new challenge to learn a new skill set. And so, you know, I started talking with people before an MSL job was even posted or available for me to apply to, and those informational interviews, I think, were a really crucial part of me landing the MSL job.
So learning about the role, truly understanding what it takes, what are some of the key competencies that I needed to be successful, as well as networking. So meeting folks on the team, perhaps joining them for field rides, also speaking with hiring managers within that area and understanding what do they really look for Yep. And then filling those gaps. So, one, did I have those skill sets already, which some of them I did. They translated really well for medical education.
And those that I didn't have, how do I gain that experience? And so that was about a 6 month to 9 month process of really, you know, informational interviewing, field drive experiences, and then building my skill set so that when that job did open, I was ready to go. And I was a really strong competitive, candidate at the slate. Yeah. Wow. No. That's huge.
And and, I can't tell you how many times I've been you know, trying to explain to folks how important it is to put the work in, put the time in, put the effort in. And, you know, do the pre work that's required so that when it comes time for that interview, you're ready. So you you put in all this work, you get the opportunity, you land the job. Right? And then Yeah. So how did you so did you know you wanted to be a manager? Like, how did you transition from MSL to MSL manager?
Yeah. That's that's a really good question too. So I love the MSL role. It was an amazing job. I I just think it's such a fascinating place to be because you're truly the forefront, from the medical perspective of the company. And not only do you get to educate and be on the cusp of that science, but you get to bring that all in. So I love doing that.
But what I enjoyed the most from being an MSL was, you know, during the time our company grew and and and expanded a few times, which is fantastic, but that led me the opportunity to mentor many new hires. And I really enjoyed that. I loved helping people get to where they wanna be from, you know, the ground up and folks that had, you know, lots of experience, and I could really learn from them and those that are brand new. So really helping them along the way, mentoring, coaching, guiding them.
That was really fulfilling to me. And so I started to think about people management, and people leadership for those reasons. And so, you know, again, starting, like, a year before a job was even available, thinking through, okay. What do I need to learn? What skill sets would make me a really strong people manager? And then working with my leadership and identifying opportunities to build those skills.
So whether that's leading a cross functional project or leading something for the MSL team where I'm helping to provide direction across the the organization and leading my peers and having them pick up the phone and and call on me to help them out. Those were all opportunities that I tried to seek out. And then, you know, when that job came available, certainly, I felt that I had strong examples of how I could be a strong people leader because I hadn't had that experience directly before.
Right. So it sounds like during your tenure, you were raising your hand a lot. It sounds it sounds like you were you were looking for okay. This is gonna help my career. Let me take the issue of raise my hand. Yes. I think raising your hand and saying yes is a great strategy to even if you if even if you think it's not, like, a super exciting opportunity or project, the way I try to think about it is what can I learn from it? So or what skill set can I gain?
Or, what new network might this offer me to work on this different project with different people? And and really thinking through, you know, how can this help me in the future? Because I think sometimes if you say yes to everything, you you wanna be strategic in the same breath. So it's a balance of saying yes and putting yourself out there, but also thinking about, okay. How is this actually going to help me so that you're saying yes to the right thing.
Yep. So you obviously, you're developing your your skill set. You're developing your career. You're growing. And then, like so did you did a position open up and you just applied for it internally? Yes. So, we grew and that, offered a few opportunities for leadership positions, within my own company. So it was really amazing opportunity, timing, and, honestly, just having, timing, and, honestly, just having been kinda working towards this for quite some time, it was just the perfect fit for me.
Yeah. So what was that like? Were you nervous? Did you, like, learn a ton of preparation? And how did you prepare for that? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I was so nervous. And I I think that's a good thing. I think that's normal, and I think that's good to be nervous because I think that shows you care. Yeah. I spent a lot of time prepping, going through, you know, the star format type questions, thinking through okay. I knew going into it what my gaps were.
I never had people report into me before, so I've never technically had done that job. But really thinking through, okay. Give me an example of maybe when I demonstrated that particular skill. I didn't have any direct reports, but how did I show that? And that could have been through mentorship of my peers or special projects. You know, I spent a lot of time thinking through all of those scenarios where I could show and demonstrate my skills even though I hadn't been in a job like that before.
Yeah. Well, that's huge. That's why you got the job. It's because you're able to show that you have the ability, and you did your your homework, and you're prepared, and and you crushed it. Yeah. So Yes. Thank you. So then you start out. You become a manager, and Mhmm. You have a team. And I'm sure that had to have been, you know, an interesting transition. Now not only do you have one in your job, now you're responsible for the lives of, you know, 7 other MSO. Right.
So did you love it right away? Like, how was that was that a good transition for you? Yeah. So that's a that's a really good question. I think, you know, I I loved it right away because it was truly what I wanted to do. I think the transition in that first 6 months was certainly very, eye opening for me. I think there was a lot that I thought I knew that you don't really know going into it. And I think I would actually say the same about an MSL role.
You know, you have all of these expectations even if you have a really strong understanding of what the job is, what you're gonna be doing on the day to day. It's not until you're living it that you actually kind of fully understand and it and it just clicks for you. So I think for me, that transition and learning period was was definitely there at the beginning. But I I loved every minute of it because I learned a lot, and I I love where I am today.
I've definitely evolved my leadership style over, you know, from where I started 3 years ago to where I am today. But I will say I loved it, and I was really fortunate in the fact that, I had a great team. So I was on a team, and then I went from peer to manager, and so I had a a great relationship with my team members. And I was very lucky in that sense of having that well established relationship with many of the folks that were, you know, now reporting into me. Yeah. Awesome.
So awesome transition. You Yeah. Your career progression's amazing. So let's go back because we you had mentioned networking, you know, as really an important way for you to kinda to transition into industry. So let's talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. How important is networking in industry for an MSL, and, you know, what can you tell us about that? Yeah. I think, networking is a critical piece of the MSL role, but not even the MSL role.
I just think in in all roles within our industry or any industry is is really crucial. And I think sometimes, you know, when you say the word networking or or many people hear that word, it could be very intimidating. You know? It's a big word, and it you know, you have to have this network, and you have to know people.
But to me, networking is truly just simply connecting with people informally and building relationships, which we all do that every day, whether it's with our friends, our families, with coworkers, with people you're engaging with, you know, when you're checking out at the grocery store or, you know, going through the car wash, whatever that might be.
I really think of networking as just the opportunity to have a conversation and connect on whatever level that is, and whatever, kind of connection or similarity that you might find with that other individual. Yeah. It it is huge. I think it's important to to to as you develop and grow your career, your career the success of your career is built on the relationships that you've been able to make along the way. So if you're a good Absolutely.
If you're a good networker and you constantly develop relationships, you're just improving your career and the chances of having a good solid network so that when it comes time for the promotion Yeah. Or if you're looking to transition, you have people that you can go to. So how how does that work? Let's talk about that a little bit. So what Yeah. What are some examples of of what people can do to help build their network?
Yeah. So I love what you just said, Tom, because I think it's about networking and having those relationships. So when the opportunity does come up, you can really I I hate the word leverage, but in a way, leverage, those relationships to support you. Right? And just like you would leverage your friends and family to support you. And I think that's the key piece is developing these relationships over time.
It's not just, oh, here's a job, and then you reach out to someone, and and it's like, hey. Help me with this. It's truly developing strong relationships, and it's a two way street. So how you can help that individual and support them as well. So I think that's a really key piece of it.
And I will say as a hiring manager, I think, you know, each individual's network is is truly critical because when I have an open position on my team, the first people I go to are my own team and my peers in my network. And I say, do you know anyone that might be a great fit for this role that would be a great addition to our team?
And I I will say, you know, when those names come through and those referrals come in from people that I really respect and that I trust, you know, they're at the top of the list for me. Doesn't mean they're gonna get the job, but, you know, those are the people that I'm like, oh, I really wanna talk to that person and and learn about them and see if they're the right fit for this position within the organization. Yeah. No. That's actually a great point.
So thinking about the job search, so networking Mhmm. For a job search. Do you have any tips or suggestions? There's job seekers out there. Right? What can they do? Well, I think the first step is is call Tom. That's that's a good point. Me. Yes. Tom Tom, has one of the strongest networks, and and that's one of the first people I call, honestly, when I have an open position. But I think Thank you. Personally you're welcome. You know, who do you go to?
I think the answer to that question is, okay. You know, what company are you interested in, or what roles are you interested in? And then think through who are the people you know in that space or even leveraging your network network. So taking it kind of to the next level and that next step and maybe ask someone within your network. Hey. I saw you're connected with, John at this particular company. I'm really interested in learning more about it. Would you mind introducing me?
Because I think that helps a lot when you have a mutual connection or at least that second, third line connection, to establish a relationship rather than, you know, just reaching out kinda to anyone and everyone. So starting there, I think, helps, to at least that initial outreach. Yep. So you're saying that, like, use LinkedIn when you're saying connections. You're talking about LinkedIn. So go to LinkedIn. Yeah. Research the companies that you're interested in.
See Yeah. Who you might either be connected with or you might be a second connection with. And then Yeah. Work the network that way. I think it's important just to expand on that. If you're a job seeker and and you're using LinkedIn, you know, definitely up your ink you know, what do they call it? Upgrade your membership so that you get more InMails. Yeah. Because then you can send 2nd and third connections InMails.
And the InMail can be just something like, hey, you know, saw that you're with x y z company now. There's a position posted. Can you help me get a foot in the door? People, you know I I find that people are really willing to help folks, at least just to to get their resume in the right place. And that's a lot of times how it works. It's huge Yeah. Just to be able to have a foot in the door. Otherwise, you're applying to the position online and your resume goes into the big black hole of Right.
Your resumes that exist on the Internet. 100%. And I think that Outreach and LinkedIn is a great first step, and I would agree with you. I think a lot of people are willing to help, at least figure out, okay, who should this go to? Do you know the hiring manager? Can you pass along my CV? You know, I'm I'm okay doing that personally.
Even if I don't have a strong connection, certainly, I wouldn't recommend someone that I don't know or can't, you know, speak to their work ethic if I don't have that experience, but I'm happy to get that to the right person so it doesn't get lost. The other thing I'll mention about that too is, you know, when people reach out to me on LinkedIn, finding that connection, I think, helps. So if someone says, hey. I saw you went to Duquesne University or, you know, hey.
I saw you were from the Rutgers fellowship program. That kinda piques my interest even more, and I wanna help them more because we have that commonality and that similar interest.
And so my recommendation would be, you know, if someone's looking to pursue an MSL role or or a job search at any company for that matter, try to find people you're connected with in some way and share that connection in your outreach of, you know, why you wanna connect with them and maybe some of those similarities that you have in your background or where you live, whatever it might be. Yeah. That's a huge point. We always tell people never send a connection request by just clicking connect.
Always send Yeah. Personalized message to that person telling them why you're looking to connect. Find some common ground, like you're saying, if maybe you went to the same fellowship program, or you went to the same school, or you just noticed something. But find some common ground, but never just hit connect. Yeah. Have some context around it. So that's a huge that's a good point. What about outside of LinkedIn? Like meetings and conferences?
And what's your feeling on the that using that as a networking opportunity? Yeah. I think those are fantastic opportunities to connect. You know, even if you're at a large medical meeting, you know, you're waiting in the really long line and for an hour to get your coffee before session starts, just chatting with the people around you, getting to know each other. Even at local meetings and congresses.
When I was in the field as an MSL, you know, we would go to Grand Rounds, and you kinda see that same network of local MSLs within the area. And so it's really nice just to get to know each other, and, also, you know, some of us even became friends because as an MSL, you know, you're in the field. You don't have an office to go to.
So, you know, even though you're maybe with different companies, it's still, you know, a similar space and you can relate and and kinda share your interest and career goals, and build that network that way as well. Yeah. Yeah. I I actually it's funny. I got an email from someone yesterday. An aspiring MSL emailed me and said, I see that MAPS, the Medical Affairs Professional Society Yeah.
Meeting's coming up in Miami, and I know that the Medical Science Liaison Society meeting is coming up in September in Vegas. Should I go? Do you think it's worth the time and the money? Well, here my answer is yes and yes. If you know, it's an investment. And if you're looking to transition your career and and try to break into industry, you have to put yourself out there. And I'm not in a position to spend other people's money. If you can't afford it, I get it. You know?
I mean, I mean, like, you know, mortgage your house to go to conferences. But if you can figure it out, I highly recommend putting yourself in you're putting yourself in position because Mhmm. Apps is gonna have 600 people. The MSO Society is gonna have 4, 500 people, and that's probably your best bet for networking. Do you agree? 100% agree. I think, you know, my colleagues are going to MAPS. I haven't had a chance to go to that meeting, but I've heard very good things.
I know, the MSL society meeting, I actually had the opportunity to go, and I I know I think that was the first time I met you in person, Tom. But, it's a really great agenda, I think, especially for those who are aspiring to be MSL. It really goes into a lot of different aspects of the role in which a candidate, I think, can really dive deep and learn about in a formal setting, and then the networking there is just huge.
I mean, you're surrounded by different companies, current MSLs, hiring managers, folks like you and your team, just to get your name out there. I mean, I met so many people that gave me their part. I had fantastic conversations with. And even if I don't have a position today, I still have their information. And so, you know, if that opportunity comes based on their background and what I'm looking for, you know, I have that saved.
And so I think it's a great, great opportunity for those aspiring to be MSL. Yeah. That's funny. That is how we met. So go like yeah. So I think we knew each other. Right? So we we obviously were, you know, we Yeah. Hop on the phone, whatever. We're at I guess it was the MSL Society meeting. It was the networking thing. It was at night, and I was talking to someone, and I look up. You were standing next to her, and I looked at your name tag. Right? That's how I met. So so there you go.
That's how important it is. Yes. Yeah. It is. And we had, you know, obviously, talked via email, but that face to face meeting, I think, is so valuable and just takes that networking and that relationship to the next level. I just putting a face to a name, I think makes a big difference. And then, I don't know, I just feel like you get to know the person a lot better in person rather than over email or over the phone. No doubt. Yeah. I I I'm I'm a big advocate.
I go to a lot of I go to a lot of the meetings. I go to a lot of congresses. Yeah. And I think, just to I mean, not to belaborate, but you learn a lot. You know? Oh, yeah. Sessions and and take advantage of every single aspect of those meetings. You know, show up early, stay late. You never know who you're gonna meet when. Timing's everything. So I'm a be the advocate. And, especially for, for folks looking to break into industry.
Let's talk about that for a second because I do a lot of work with aspiring MSLs. What advice would you give to an aspiring MSL looking to break into their first industry position? Yeah. I think, gosh, there's there's there's so many things. I think if I could really boil it down to to just one, I would say keep going. Be persistent. I think it only takes one opportunity.
You know, I I think a lot of aspiring MSLs can get discouraged if they'd applied to 1, 2, 3 multiple positions and it's just not working out. But what I would say is is just keep trying because often, at least from my perspective, it's not about you personally as an individual. There are so many factors at play, when you're seeking an MSL position. It could be the timing. It could be the background that the hiring manager is looking for, the specific territory needs. You know?
Is it a more rural community focused, or is it highly academic? And who are you up against? What's the candidate slate? And so, you know, I've seen a lot of MSL breakthrough because you have everybody has to start somewhere. And so someone will be willing to take that chance. It just is a matter of of timing and all those other factors coming into play. And so I'd say just keep going.
Continue to network, continue to talk to people, continue to get experience that might help support you, and then just keep trying and keep going for it. Yeah. That's awesome advice. I know a lot of people are gonna appreciate that. You know, to I guess to add to that, the the Mhmm. Other thing people love to hear from folks like yourself that are in a hiring capacity, you know, what qualities do you look for in MSLs? Yeah. I I think that's such a good question.
I I guess I'd have to say, I'll kinda maybe split it into 2 sections. 1 would be the the skill sets that I think are really, really crucial and then probably more of what me personally some of the personal qualities of the individual. So from a skill set perspective, definitely that high scientific knowledge and acumen, and learning agility.
So the, you know, the MSL is truly that scientific resource in the field, and having that knowledge base and the passion to continue to learn with all the new data that's being thrown at us is is crucial, for an MSL to be successful and I think credible, in the field. The other piece of that is being able to communicate and articulate the data across several different levels.
So whether, you know, the MSL is talking to an international OL or thought leader versus, let's say, they're in a smaller clinic and talking to a nurse that maybe this is their 1st day in oncology, so, whatever therapeutic area it might be. So having the skill set to translate that high science, whether it's, you know, to an OL or to a different level. And then last but not least, as you know, pharma is a very complex matrix environment.
So being able to partner effectively, build those relationships, and really collaborate with all these different stakeholders, I think, is what really helps to make an MSL successful. And then I guess some personal qualities, I think, for me, I'll you know, just three things, and then I'll I'll pause and stop talking. Someone who's authentic. That's really important to me, the authenticity and and someone who's just genuine, a self starter. You're in the field by yourself.
So, you know, really taking things and running with it, being able to multitask and be organized. And then last but not least is grit and tenacity. And I think that grit and tenacity to me is what differentiates really a good MSL from a truly great MSL in all that they do. Awesome. That's huge. Yeah. That's huge advice. So, you know, I'm, like, just I I first of all, I can't thank you enough for Yeah. Joining me today. You're awesome. I love your story. I I love your your passion.
I appreciate your, opinions and your viewpoint on networking, relationship building, how important it is. And I think that, and I think that what we've discussed today is really important, not just for people that Yeah. Are looking to break industry into industry, but anyone that's that's in an MSO role that is looking to continue their career. I mean, you said it so perfectly. You saw or were looking for opportunities to develop your skill set where you knew you needed Yeah. To add to it.
You raised your hand a lot. You put yourself in the right position. And that's what helped you get to where you are today. So what's next for you? Are you gonna what how how is Amy Mystic gonna dominate the world? We wanna know. Oh, gosh. Good question, Tom. I don't know. You know, I think I know what I love, and I love, leading and developing people. And so, and I I still love the science. I love being in oncology.
So, you know, somewhere I can continue to grow and develop those skills, I'm I'm not I haven't figured that out quite exactly, but, you know, I'm I'm loving what I'm doing. And, just the opportunity to continue to grow and develop people at a a larger level, I think, is is what is the next step for me. Awesome. Well, listen, I wish you the best. All the best of luck Thank you. And continued success in your career. Thank you again for joining us. And I hope everyone enjoyed the podcast today.
I hope you can use some of this information whether it's in your job search or in your career, and definitely please join us again in the future. Everybody have a great day. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.