Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Abby Adenola, and we discuss how to be a leader and mentor in your space and the importance of mentorship. So I hope you enjoy it. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Abby. How are you doing today? I'm fine, Tom. How are you? I'm awesome. I'm awesome, and I'm I'm really excited to have you join me today.
I love your topic, and I know you have a lot of really good stuff to share. Before we get into that, let's do an introduction. Why don't you tell everybody, you know, who you are, where you're from, what you're up to these days, that sort of thing? Yeah. Sure. First of all, thank you so much for having me. It's truly an honor to be here. But, yeah, my name is Abby Soe Yadinola. I'm originally from Nigeria, and I moved to North Carolina at a young age and went to UNC Chapel Hill.
And that was where I got my degree in psychology with a minor in chemistry. And then I went on to receive my Pharm d in Charleston, West Virginia at University of Charleston. So I decided to pursue a residency, and I completed that at UNC, and that was where I also obtained my teaching certificate and got some academia experience. But as far as, like, professional experience, I've been in the community pharmacy, specialty pharmacy before I found my calling in industry.
So right now, I'm in medical science liaison for dermatology company called LeoPharma. Yep. And I've been here for a year, and I love it. So that's just a little bit about my background. Yeah. So yeah. I mean, I looked at you know, just looking at your background, I know you were a pharmacist for, like, 11 years. Right? Mhmm. So what made you wanna transition the industry, and how did that happen? Yeah. No. It's always interesting to hear about people's journey into pharma.
And I've been a pharmacist for 9 years, I'll say. And, you know, I feel like a lot of pharmacists can relate to this when sometimes you hear that industry is known as the dark side. Yeah. But it's not. It's a great side. And but I wasn't really aware of all the opportunities that existed within the pharmaceutical industry. So for me, it was more of, like, are you going into community? Are you going into hospital? Or you have a residency? And for me, I went the residency route.
But I was at a point in my career where I wanted something new, and I was analyzing all my strengths and the things that I truly love to do and really trying to put all of that together to find fulfillment in my career. And I had the opportunity of meeting a community liaison several years, after I got into, the, the community pharmacy who worked for a pharmaceutical company. So was she was kind of like an MSL, but the KOLs were pharmacist like myself, and she was one too.
So I was really intrigued. Like, wait. What is this? I can do this. Yeah. And, you know, just building those relationships, sharing scientific data, supporting, like, all the data generation training, and utilizing those skill sets that I felt like I I I excel in. You know, my personal interpersonal skills, communication skills. So that was how I got to know about the MSR role. And but I was also at a stage in my personal life where I couldn't come into that role just yet.
Mhmm. And I heard about the medical information and communication route, and that's actually what I did. So I went to MedInfo for about 3 years with a contract research organization. And then when I was ready to get into the field, I leveraged all of my experiences to obtain an MSO role, which I've now been for over 3 years. And, again, I love it. That's awesome. It's funny.
You're like the 3rd guest in a row that transitioned into industry, or got their first role in industry in a position that wasn't an MSL job. It was, you know, a position in industry and we whether it's Betinfo or whatever else. So I think that's great. So you ultimately got to where you wanted to be, but you took, I say I say the word starter position, but clearly, that's not to take away from that MedInfo position. But it wasn't your ultimate goal, I assume. Is that correct? That is correct.
It wasn't my ultimate goal, and they are some people in medical information role where that is the role they aspire to be and wanna be in for a long period of time. And I like the term starter role as well because there are some people who may have the ultimate goal of becoming an MSL, but maybe go into sales and then transition Mhmm. Or go into academia Mhmm. But then heard about the MedInfo role and then transition.
So I feel like whatever role you aspire to be, whether it's an MSL role or something within medical affairs, the most important thing is, you know, hearing about the role and then trying to go for the role and then staying true to your path. Okay. And not making sure that you don't get too comfortable is that if that's not your ultimate endpoint. Yeah. Well, that's great advice. So and it worked for you. Right? It worked for me. It worked for me.
And I would also say that my years in med info and med communications really shaped me as an MSL, and I was able to leverage a lot of those experiences and bring more value to my MSL role. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. You're definitely, you know, more prepared, and you have that 3 years of industry experience. And that info is such an, you know, such a great entree into it's just a great medical affairs position that's gonna prepare you well. Exactly. Alright.
So you go from a med info role to an MSL position. Is it everything that you thought it would would be? I mean, how do you like being in MSL? I love it. It's the it's the hidden gem. I'm telling you. And I think that I joke with people when I try to coach them and help them get into their roles that it's hard to get in because it's a great role. So they try to filter out the people. Yeah. But, again, like, the role is great.
I feel like I'm able to combine all of my experiences, utilize my knowledge. I mean, we go to school for so many years. Yep. And being that scientific expert within your therapeutic area, establishing those relationships where, for me, speaking from a pharmacist perspective, we've kind of been trained to do anyway.
So I truly believe it is that role that combines everything together and just gives you that great work life balance, utilize your scientific knowledge and acumen, and really also it's rewarding. And maybe you may not be directly working with patients, but you have this indirect role, whereas you are helping and shaping the KOLs within your therapeutic area and providing those education and that scientific exchange that is really important. Yeah. For sure.
Well, it sounds like you're doing great. And I know you're doing some coaching and mentoring now, which is really exciting. And you came up with the topic for today's podcast, which is, c one b one teach 1. Did I get that right? Yes. You got it. Took me, like, 4 times to actually get that right. So where did where did you hear that? Like, where did that come from, and how's how has that affected you? Yeah. No. That's an excellent question. And you know what?
I can't pinpoint exactly the way I heard those exact words. Mhmm. I feel like I've heard variations of it over time. You know, there's an African proverb with the phrase, each one, teach 1. Okay. And then I also have a lot of friends in the medical field, and I know with the residents, a lot of times, it's see 1, do 1, teach 1. So I think it's a combination of all of the above, and I've just adopted it as my philosophy.
Okay. When I was young, my mom was a pharmacist, and I saw her growing up, and I wanted to become a pharmacist. And throughout pharmacy school, I was really interested in mentorship and leadership opportunities. So whatever role I'm in, I wanna help those who are aspiring to be in that same role. Share my knowledge, you know, share resources and help them in their journey to achieve their their goal.
So at UNC, when I was getting my teaching certificate, we had to write out our teaching philosophy, and I used the same phrase. So to me, it's no longer just words, but it's my motivation and truly my passion. Yeah. So how are you doing that now? What's So How how do you incorporate that into your, you know, daily life? Yeah. No. For for me, I do it personally and professionally.
So even within, like, my role and my current company, it's helping those who may be new to the role or just being serving as a resource to them, an onboarding or anything of that nature. But outside of that, personally, I actually do have a consulting, business that I do on the side, and it's like career coaching.
And that stemmed from over my years of experience in every one, you know, reaching out, asking for advice, and, questions on how to break into the MSL role and serving as that mentor to help them and to guide them in their journey. And right now, that's kind of what I do also on the side. So Mhmm. It's a way for me to pay it forward and also, you know, impact other people's lives. Because, again, I love the MSR role, and I think it's truly, a very rewarding position.
So whatever role that I can play to help someone else's journey, whatever information I can share to make it a little bit easier for them, I think to me, anyway, it's very rewarding. Yeah. So give give us some examples. So in your current role, at Leo, how are you able to do that? Yeah. So, a lot of times, we may get, like, an expansion or somebody new may come into the role. So I have served as a mentor or like a buddy when somebody is onboarding.
And a lot of times, you know, some people may already have an MSL role, so they're not new specifically to the role, but maybe new to Leo. So helping them and providing, you know, advice that was just serving as a great resource Mhmm. For that. And then outside of Leo, having, like, 1 on 1 coaching with people, helping them with, like, interview preparations and things of that nature, scientific presentations.
So, really, it's just a combination of different things from different places that I do and work with different people. So you just look for opportunities where you can help others establish yourself as a leader and mentor, you know, within your current role. But, obviously, you've you've must have been doing such a good job, but you're you're starting to do it kind of on the side now as well just to help folks. Is that your story pretty much? Yeah. It's my story pretty much.
And, you know, it's not even it doesn't have to be limited to industry. Right? Okay. It can be applied to any role, any industry. And in fact, I encourage it. So when you think about what it truly means is a call to action. Mhmm. And it doesn't require an official title or an official designation. It's really just providing knowledge, motivating others, and sharing your experiences.
And you do that through displaying respect, you know, and genuine interest in someone else's development or seeing what may be a data gap or just be a gap in, something that may be occurring within the company or even outside in your own personal, personal, interactions with people and where you can fit in.
So before you come into a role, there are other people that have already been in that role, then I'm sure that there's something that you can share with them so that they can help to that you can help them obtain that role. Mhmm. And it's just about giving back. So you learned, like, if you wanted to be an MSL, for instance, you either saw someone doing it, you heard about it, you become an MSL.
Mhmm. And then you have others who are reaching out to you for quick advice or quick tips, and you're able to extend that same information to someone else. So and that's what leadership is. Right? You know, extending beyond a title, beyond a manager, having direct reports. It's having that mindset that you wanna help others succeed. Okay. So let's let's go back to the title, c one, b one, teach 1, and talk about, how that can benefit you professionally. Like, what can actually come of that?
Yeah. No. That's a good question, and it's great to try to apply that in not just the role that you're trying to get, but in all areas of just professionalism. Right? Yeah. So for instance, it can help you outside of the personal fulfillment, like, if this is something that you're passionate about. It may even also help with promotions and establishing yourself in your career. And when people see that you're willing to go over and beyond Mhmm.
They can see that you are also exhibiting, like, just that team spirit. For instance, a a team may have, like, just diversity of experiences, of strengths. 1 person may be really, really good when it comes to technology, or one person may be extremely great when it comes to presenting and just engaging with the audience. Or some may have, like, this medical information background where they're really good at, like, verbalizing or having written, information.
And when you're seeing, like, okay, I have the strength. Let me share that with others. Mhmm. Let me teach, quote unquote, and how they can become this or how they can, excel in that particular area. And you're becoming a team player. And Yeah. Hopefully, leadership can see that. You have that personal fulfillment.
It may show up in performance reviews, and it really just also helps you in establishing your career and where you may want to go in that career, whether it's a more leadership opportunities or diverging into a different career path within, the industry. But it really, I think, gives you just that leverage and also gives you that personal, motivation again to help others. Yeah. No. That's awesome. And, you know, it's so funny. You mentioned the word team player. Right?
So there's a lot of times that'll appear on job descriptions. And there's a lot of times it won't. But I can tell you in the MSO role and in almost all my clients, they want team players. They they want to establish a good cohesive group. So to be able to adopt this philosophy and have a team that, you know, gels and is collaborative, and it's a bunch of team players that are helping each other out, that's what an organization wants.
But you as an individual, you know, if you adopt this type of philosophy, you're gonna get noticed. You're gonna get noticed. It's gonna help your numbers, your performance reviews. Mhmm. I don't see really the downside other than it takes effort. I mean, do you agree? I mean, what what are the downsides to to making an extra effort? I don't see any downsides. I mean, like you said, it does take effort. It takes time. It takes resources.
But also knowing that somebody probably invested that time and resources in you as well. Yeah. And you're right when it comes to interviewing. I feel like team spirit or some sort of that question is asked, and it's usually a situational thing.
So do you have those experiences where you can say, hey, this is what I did for my team, or this is how I I was able to contribute to the team, and this is how we were able to meet those objectives and those goals because, you know, I helped, do this particular thing. And it's not like a self serving or being self righteous, like, oh, yeah. I did that. I did that. But knowing that you contributed towards that, And at the end of the day, the whole team succeeds.
Yeah. And, you know, I think there's you know, a lot of people are born leaders. There's true leaders that this comes natural and it comes easy to them. Yes. And then there are other folks that maybe this doesn't come naturally to them. Maybe it's a real effort. So what advice do you have for those people where this is a real effort or it's not even something that maybe came into their mind. Is there some advice that you might have for those folks?
Yeah. I think that if you're naturally a leader, you probably have heard that from other people. Mhmm. And I think it's embracing that and making it a strength. Mhmm. Right? So if this is something that's natural to you, take it to the next level and see how you can continue to improve. Mhmm. And if it's something that you feel like, I really wanna do this, I really wanna strive for this, or I want to be better at this, identify those who you may perceive as being great at this and ask them.
I'm sure people who are true leaders are willing to give back and willing to share how they got there and who mentor them along the way and how they've been mentored and how they became who they are. And I've been able to do that. I identify mentors, really, and I think it's important just for your professional, professional growth and development to be able to identify mentors who can help hone in on your skills and also fill in that gap.
So I think that those are some actionable items that you yourself can do. Yeah. So, obviously, mentors have played a big role for your career. And it sounds like you sought them out. Or did they just emerge? Like, how did it work out for you? Well, mentorship is important. As you know, it's important in any role. But in the context of the MSL role, I do think it's extremely important and it really helps facilitate that individual success. Mhmm. I personally sought some of my mentors out.
Mhmm. And I have been fortunate enough where some saw something in me and they're like, Abby, I wanna help you. Mhmm. I wanna help develop you, and I embrace that. Yeah. So I think it's important to gain knowledge and skills to really enhance your performance and knowing that, okay, this person does this really, really well. How can I learn from that?
Or this person kinda had the same path that I took, but they're now, like, maybe several steps ahead, and you wanna know how they got there, what are some tools that they utilize, what are some things that they've done, and they can share that with you as well. The MSL role is very dynamic, and Yeah. It requires different attributes, you know, communication, scientific acumen, active listening, and to really be able to, you know, convey scientific ideas and let it resonate with those audiences.
But sometimes it may not you may not do that right away. And it it it requires you to hone in on some of those skills and ask the right questions. And there's always things to learn. I think one of the attributes that a lot of higher managers look for too is, like, are you coachable? Because Yeah. Totally. You are committed to lifelong learning. Yeah. You know, there's always a way that maybe this can be better.
And I think that that's where mentors can come in and they can really help to inspire you and, you know, provide that guidance and they can also even connect you with people and really other people of influence too. Yeah. So I think it's one of the things that I always encourage people to find and to also become one yourself if it's if it's possible. Yeah. And No. It's funny. So we started out talking about how important it is to be a leader. Right. Establish yourself as a leader.
Go above and beyond. Seek opportunities to help others. But what you're saying is it's very important to have mentors, to have people that are going to help mentor you and lead you and guide you. So it's it's twofold, really. Exactly. It's important on both sides. It is. And if you go back to the original concept, you're seeing 1. Right? So you're seeing a mentor. Mhmm. And then that mentor kinda helps you and shapes you.
And now, hopefully, you're able to become 1 and then guide somebody else along the way. Yeah. So it's really two folds, and it's this great dynamic of everyone, you know, giving back in some way and paying it forward. Yeah. I love the message, you know, and it's funny. You know, when you when you gave me the quote and you said, yeah. This is what I wanna talk about. I was like, alright. It's pretty cut and dried, you know, being a leader.
So let's talk about, you know, what it means to be a leader, which you've done great. And, you know, but I I I love the fact that you flipped the script and said, oh, yeah. By the way, don't forget. You need mentors yourself. You need guy you know, I've said this a 1000000 times, but, you know, even the top top performers, you know, the best athletes in the world. You know, Michael Phelps, the most decorated Olympic athlete of all time, had coaches. Right?
Yeah. Michael Jordan had coaches his whole career. Like, it's just the way it is, so you can't lose sight of that. You can't forget how important it is. And you're right. You know, when I look at the interview process, talk to hiring managers, it really is so important to show that you're coachable. Mhmm. You mentioned the word team player, and then you mentioned the word coachable. It's very consistent with a lot of the language that I see on job descriptions.
Yeah. But, also, what you're going to hear when you do your performance review, you're going to your manager. If they use the words team player and coachable, that those are good things. Right. Right? Absolutely. No. And, you know, when you look at the MSO role and even just medical affairs, you work with so many different people. It's very like, you have, like, just, cross functional matrix colleagues. You have, like, your commercial colleagues, the sales, marketing, regulatory.
Mhmm. There are so many people involved. So it's really important to be able to work as a team Mhmm. And bringing value to your role and knowing that there are other people involved in the success. Because once you succeed, the whole team succeeds and the company succeeds, and it's going back again to those patients because you're able to help those patients in your own unique way. Yeah. No. This is great stuff, and it's it's a unique perspective.
And it's, again, I'm I'm I'm learning and and it's coming all there, but it's so some of the stuff seems so obvious, but I think it's not something that we inherently just do. It's not like we just wake up every day and we, you know, we we think of this stuff. So and and it seems like it comes really easy for you. So, like, what other advice do you have for MSLs, in, you know, and even aspiring MSLs Mhmm.
In in what they might be able to do on a day to day basis to really help position themselves, you know, either as a mentor, or someone that is on the other side of the equation and is coming up in their career. Yeah. No. So this might be a little long because, you know, I serve as a career coach, but I'll try to be concise. Yeah. But as far as, like, aspiring, MSLs or those aspiring to be in medical affairs, I would say the first part is to be driven.
Okay. You know, starting a career in medical affairs is not gonna be the easiest. You have to go through some kinda, like, rigorous application process, but you have to be driven and motivated to want to be, to go over beyond because that's that's the that's the start of it, right, which is gonna be needed when you get the role, when you try to get into another role or promotion. So be driven. And then be prepared. Mhmm. Make sure that you have everything that you need.
You've done your research. You have the right resumes. You have the right, tools to really help you to succeed in preparing for those interviews. Right? I think it's also important to hone in on those skills we discussed. You know, those communication skills, interpersonal skills, and being able to be flexible and adaptable. And how can you show that? Be a team player. How can you demo how can you demonstrate that?
Or what are some things you've done in the past that you can articulate in your interview process? Because it's gonna be asked. Yeah. And I also think it's important to network. Network is pivotal. You know, the old saying, it's not about what you know, it's who you know. It's really important, and it's important to connect with people on LinkedIn. It's important to join professional organizations and societies to really increase your network.
And, you know, through that, you may also find out that you're actually networking with potential mentors that can guide you in your journey and guide you, you know, within that career to have that career progression. And then be confident.
You have to be confident in your abilities, your experiences, whatever your background is, whatever degree you have, identifying what those transferable skills and experiences are that you can leverage and that you can be able to showcase the value you can bring to an organization. And then be persistent. I think it's really important because when I started this, I said that this trying to get into that role into medical affairs is not easy, so you cannot give up.
You Yeah. May get a lot of noes before you get the yes, but it's gonna be important because it's truly worth it. So just be persistent. Keep going. And then for those who are already established in their career, keep striving for more. And, you know, don't get so caught up in the role that you're in right now that you kinda put yourself in a box.
And even if it's you wanna be an MSL for the rest of your life, you know, there are probably other responsibilities that you can embrace, and also giving back to others. I think that's really, really important to be able to pay it forward, become that mentor, ask and, you know, answer those questions that people may ask or tips that people may, require of you, and, you know, continue to just have that positive impact in the space that you're in.
No matter your title, no matter the department, just continue to be a leader within your space and pay it forward. That's awesome. I mean, I love it. I I think that this is such great advice. I think it's great for really anyone. I mean, you know, you had mentioned before that, you know, it's not just the medical affairs industry that this concept applies. It really applies to could apply to any industry, any job.
I think that if you seek out ways to help others and and, you know, be a mentor, be a leader, try to fill in some gaps on your team, you know, with individuals, raise your hand. It just goes such a long way. And I feel like in your, you know, in your career having established yourself, you know, first as a as a successful pharmacist, but now as a successful MSL and following this, it shows.
I mean, I could just tell just from, I've learned a lot just from from the time that we're talking, and I could see that this is really intrinsic for you. And I hope that the people that are listening, could pick up tips if it's not necessarily something that comes, you know, second nature to them. Right. So you're awesome. You're you're very special. I'm so glad that we were able to get together. Likewise, Tom. Thank you so much.
And, you know, to that point, I think being intentional is important too. You know, some people, like you said, it comes natural. And, this is something I'm passionate about, but for those who are trying to be, it's being intentional. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I'll tell you, I gotta go back and listen to this. You gave us a lot to to, to unpack there. So I hope so. Good stuff. Thank you again. I really appreciate you coming on. You were great. Alright. Thank you so much for having me, Tom.
Alrighty. Thanks, Abby. Be well. You too. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.