Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Sarah Snyder. She's associate director of medical affairs at BioSplice Therapeutics. And we talk about the power of podcast, one of my favorite subjects, 3 surprising ways MSLs can level up by tuning in. So great conversation. I really enjoyed it. I hope you guys will as well. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram, YouTube, and, of course, LinkedIn.
Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Sarah. Welcome to the podcast. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Yeah. I'm so excited. I'm excited that you're here, and I'm excited to talk to you. And I love your topic near and dear to my heart. But before we get into that, why don't we start with an introduction? Alright. Yeah. Well, thank you for having me.
I'm Sarah Snyder, and I am a pharmacist by training. I've been in the industry, gosh, over 20 years to age me a bit. So, in I've done a variety of roles at both big pharma and then also startups. So currently, I work as an associate director in medical affairs at Bio Spice Therapeutics, which is a company that's developing a therapy for knee osteoarthritis and also some oncology, products in the pipeline. So it's exciting.
And I live in the Midwest, and so we can talk about why podcasts are near and dear to my heart with a big territory. But I love the MSL role and medical affairs and just I really am a big fan of your podcast. So I appreciate you having me on. Well, thank you. And I'm I appreciate you coming on, and I appreciate your idea. So you had an idea of doing a podcast about podcasts and the importance of podcasts and why MSL should really be using podcasts. So tell me about your background.
Like, are you just a big fan? Yeah. So it's kind of silly. I think with the way I worded it to you is I feel like podcasts literally changed my life. And when I say that, I I'm in the Midwest, so a lot of my territory is, you know, 3, 4 hours in the car. So that time that used to be like listening to music or maybe, you know, XM series radio or whatever, when I found podcasts, it just opened up a world that I could continue to learn but on the road.
So it was like a way to use that time so much more wisely. And I also I'll say I'm a big fan of Audible and audiobooks. But the unique thing about podcasts is just the diversity of topics. So if you wanna learn, you can pretty much learn anything and, just that whole I think most MSLs are lifelong learners, so it's just a perfect gift for us. For sure. For sure. And, you know, it it keeps you company.
It's because you feel like and the more you listen to the podcast, the more you feel like you know the people, and it's like your friends are talking to you. I'm a big Joe Rogan guy. I listen to Joe Rogan every day. And Yeah. I feel like I'm these are he brings on his friends and people he knows and, like, all these scholars and all this, you know, these really, really smart people.
And so not only do I feel like I'm getting educated, but I almost feel like I'm in the I'm in the middle of a conversation of people that I kinda now know even though I've never met them before. Exactly. Spot on. So now why should MSLs be listening to podcasts? And which podcast should they let's just jump right into it. I really wanna hear your thoughts on this. Well, the first part, I think, is the information overload is real. It is a struggle now.
I mean, the number of journals putting out content and then you have webinars and then you have conferences and just trying to keep up to date in your therapeutic area, you know, it's a full time job just doing that. Right. So the beauty of podcasts is that, you know, where you used to have to go to that journal every month and you know, see look at through the table of contents, whatnot.
You can they they all have podcasts now whether it's I'll just give you some general ones, not specific to therapeutic areas because everybody has their own. But let's say JAMA, Lancet, New England Journal, they all have podcasts. You can listen to that and get, okay, what is new in medicine this month? Where for me, let's say rheumatology, there's, you know, 10 different rheumatology podcasts that I could listen to and stay up to date in my therapeutic area. And some of them are journals.
Some of our of our, like, individual rheumatologists putting them on. Some of them are societies. So things like that are just it's it's a great way to keep up to date. Yeah. Mhmm. I mean, I I I kinda think that it this is just something that people just need to be educated on. I think once they, you know, get into the habit of listening to podcast and start to really enjoy it and make it a part of their I know I'm not gonna say their daily life, but maybe their weekly life.
And then you start to figure out which ones are gonna be really helpful, and which ones you probably need to tune into. Then you you start to subscribe to them, and then you start to see what episodes you wanna watch. So there's it's there's a little bit of a process involved. I mean, do you agree with that? I totally agree with that.
And when I was talking to you about, you know, just the whole why, you know, I really thought about 3 specific reasons that I can say, okay, MSL is our own medical affairs professionals in general. You know? Number 1, keeping up to date. Number 2, we can talk about this separate, is connecting with opinion leaders. So I found it, especially with COVID, you know, my territory this year includes a lot of new people that I've never met before. So podcasts are a way to, like, learn about people.
Like, you already alluded to how you're like actually, feel like I'm in a conversation with these people. So we can talk about that a little bit more. But then the third thing I think is personal development. And again, we can talk about that. But those are kind of like when I think about the whole why and you're right, it's it's an art not a science of finding which ones, you know, do I personally really like, and then I can subscribe and and, you know, keep up with.
Well, I mean, and you did come up with that, the 3 surprising ways you can use pocket. So let's jump into that now. I I really do wanna hear more about these 3 different ways that, you know, that MSLs can use podcasts. So, yeah, let's definitely jump into that. Yeah. So I I already kind of talked about the first one, but it's keeping up with information. Mhmm. So I think you've got it. Can you go through your therapeutic area and look again, journals. Mhmm. Look at the societies.
Yeah. And those are usually pretty short ones that maybe they're once a so it's not like a big time stuff or anything. And then individuals that are doing them, especially post conference, some of those are fantastic. A lot of times they have like a daily one post ASCO or during ECR for rheumatology, for example, and you can get kind of the highlights from OLs in their speaking, what their opinions are. So it's not just an article or a poster, but they're actually giving their thoughts on it.
So, that's I think that's really important. The other ones that can be really good are journal club ones, and that would be therapeutic area specific too. There's some in rheumatology and they'll actually critique an article and then you can again, what you're getting that's different is actually you're getting opinions from people and what they think. So I think that's kind of where I would go. I already mentioned New England Journal of Medicine.
Another one that's more general is Curbsiders, and that is a good one. It's like Curbsiders internal medicine, and it's pretty broad. But, you know, a lot of us are trying to keep up with not just our therapeutic area, but kind of overall medicine. So that's kind of a nice one that they just, do general topics. And then again, if you just go to listennotes.com, so www.listeningnotes.com and put in, let's say you work in, gastroenterology.
If you put that in and then put, you know, put podcast shows in, you'll get a list of what the shows are in your therapeutic area, and you can kinda pick, okay, that one looks like it might be relevant. Oh, there's one on disease guidelines. I should listen to that episode. That's kinda how I would if I was gonna start. Awesome tip. Mhmm. I mean, that's a no brainer. Mhmm. Yep. So that's where I would start with kinda that one. But Awesome. And it's listen notes dot com. That's exactly right.
Yep. Cool. Mhmm. Alright. So number 2. Are we on number 2 now? We are. Yeah. Alright. So number 2 is my favorite, I think, because the MSL role is all about connecting with others. Right? Right. So we wanna connect with our opinion leaders, and we wanna provide them value. That's the number one thing. So what I found is those people that have either their hosts on a podcast or you'd be surprised how many of your key opinion leaders are actually out there being guests on podcasts and talking.
So if you can know that and listen to it before you go and meet with them or you can follow-up with a note that said, hey, I heard you on the Room Now podcast or I heard you on, my therapeutic space right now is osteoarthritis. So I'll give you an example. A key opinion leader, David Hunter, hosts one called the Joint Action Podcast and he has key opinion leaders worldwide on this.
They're usually about 45 minutes on a specific topic and what they do at the beginning is they talk about themselves a little bit. So he'll say, you know, tell me 5 words that describe you or, you know, tell me a little bit about what you do in your spare time. Well, right there you're like, okay, I'm understanding a little bit about this person, what they value, what kind of, how in-depth they are, just, you know, just their persona a little bit.
And then when I get to meet with them, I already have a vision of what they like and, you know, how detailed do you think? You know, you can just make a lot of predictions based on listening to them. And, again, like I said, you can follow-up with them immediately and say, hey. I heard you last week. This was really insightful. Can we meet? I'd like to hear more about this. You know? So that's that's where that value is.
I mean, what better way to get an inside track and really kinda get to know someone than by listening to them and hearing about them and maybe their interest? Because I have to imagine that they're going to inject their personality and and interests into the pockets. That's just the way it works. It's totally the way that it works. And, you know, don't we all like to be heard?
So if if you are paying attention and you're, like, following up and then maybe you go to their Twitter and you give when they post that podcast, you can, you know, give them a like on that. You know? I mean, those things, I think, pay off. They when they know that you're listening and you're not just coming to them to, like, feed them your data, I think it just makes much more of a relationship as an MSL. Totally.
Totally. And I love that in mentioning the engagement piece, I think, is really important because follow-up, obviously, because you can listen to all the podcasts in the world of your k wells unless you follow-up. You know, you're just collecting information. You're not acting on it. So follow-up's really important, but that engagement piece is important because a lot of times, if you're engaging with these folks, they start to see you and they start to get familiar with you.
And now unless they know you already. But if they don't, that's that that's just exposure. Right? Right. No. You're exactly I mean, we're prelaunch stage right now on the product that I'm working on. So one of my top kinda digital opinion leader, national opinion leader, he, you know, won't be with me until after we launch. Right. But I will be I'll tell you.
I am sure to respond to his podcast and give him, you know, like like I said, a like or a, you know, comment on that kind of thing because, you know, that's I can show that I appreciate what he's doing and actually really do. It's an educational service that he's providing. But, yeah, it's a wonderful way to engage. Awesome. Mhmm. Alright. So where we at? Number 3. Alright.
Number 3. And I think this is something we tend to neglect because we are in an industry that we're so high pressure and we're trying to give, give, give, and we tend to personal development can kinda fall to the wayside a little bit.
So again, I'm a big fan of audiobooks on this subject, but I think, the power of podcast is they can be really motivational and just help you gather, like gain skills in a different way that it's hard to keep up, whether it's technology or just, communication, especially the last year where we were all stuck at home. It's, I think podcasts can be incredibly motivational and I can talk about a couple of my favorites.
But also subjects like personal finance that maybe you don't have time, you know, and you don't wanna spend your weekends, you know, reading a personal finance book. You know, there's some great ones out there. One of my favorites is the White Coat Investor and it's geared to healthcare professionals and it's all about personal finance. And we keep telling stories. And like you said earlier, you feel like you're part of the conversation and you're like, oh gosh.
I would I wish I would have that 20 years ago when I started. Right? Yeah. So that is really good. Another one for medical professionals is the podcast, by Kevin MD. And he is a he's probably the top digital influencer as far as physicians go. But he had so many episodes on burnout and relationships out of, you know, work and things like that that I think we all benefit for from even if we're not, like, in clinical practice. You know, we still can feel the burnout.
Then some of the other ones, I guess, as far as personal development, I really like the quote of the day. It's short, less than 10 minutes, and, you know, if you're kind of feeling like this is a you know, I gotta get myself going today. You know, you're like, you can come out of that. It's amazing how you can feel like, okay. I'm pumped up now. You know, John Maxwell, we've probably all heard of him. He has one On Purpose is one, it's On Purpose by Jay Shetty.
He has a book out too, but he is one that I think we as MSLs could learn, like, the interviewing questions and the way that he communicates. You can learn some amazing things on a he does weekly or no. Actually, twice a week once. You know? So you can look at the title and see. It's not like I listen to all of these on a regular basis, but I kinda you know, I subscribe and then if the title jumps out at me, I'm like, okay. That's one that, you know, I think I'll listen to today.
So I hobbies too. Let's say I love to run. So, you know, if I kind of went to 1 maybe a drive or something, like, I wanna listen to something a little bit more low key. You know, you can just listen to one about trail running or whatever hobby that you have. If you like to garden, you know, there's pretty much one about anything. Well, I will say the MSL Talk podcast is excellent to listen to while gardening, running, jogging, cooking, working. Exactly. I'm kidding.
Well, a lot of people do tell me, you know, I always listen to you when I'm walking the dog. Right? I listen to when I'm working out. And so I have to give a shout out every once in a while to, you know, to people that are out there on a long drive or or whatever. But, yeah. I'm I'm right there with you, and I think that I I see you kinda almost catalog, and you have, you know, you have, you know, podcast for hobbies. You have podcast for education, podcast for, I was listening to podcast.
There's, like, crime drama podcast, like murder mystery podcast that suck you in. You start listening to you. I'm like, oh my god. I gotta hear what happens next. So it really is a great way to occupy your time. One of the things that we've that I've tried to do on this podcast is to also have the video, on YouTube. And and I'm not saying this as a plug. The the reason that I did that was because people tell me that they take notes.
So sometimes when they're driving or they're working out, they don't have the ability to do that. But when they get back to their desk, they either listen to it online or they'll pull it up on YouTube, and then they'll take notes. So do you look for your podcast on YouTube as well to see if it's it's out there? Because I think a lot of them do that.
You know, I don't, but I will say just if you know search engine optima like, the whole way that it all works, you're gonna get a lot more views from you even if you're just typing in Google. Your podcast probably doesn't, like, pop up, but it'll show up on YouTube. And then if people know you both you have the podcast and I I guess my point is searching for podcast is harder. The it's just the whole way that they're searchable is not as good as YouTube. So YouTube is much easier to find things.
Yeah. Yeah. That makes yeah. No. Totally. And I and I you know, again, the the the podcast that I really like, I try to look them up on the Internet because, like, sometimes you'll listen to them and you don't know what the person looks like. You might see a picture of them, but so it it's kinda nice to see him in action and get a good feel for the interaction, get a feel for for the guest. But, that was just a thought.
What about are there any so you have great advice, and you've given some real good, what I would say action items for MSLs on how to utilize podcast. Are there any other action items, or is there any other advice that you have for folks on what they should do with this medium? Yeah. I would say just remember that, you know, you might be going to Tom's website to get it. You can you can go to Spotify. You can go to Apple. You can go to whatever player that you have.
And, again, like Tom said, subscribe to the ones that you might have an interest in. You can always unsubscribe. It's completely free. But what will happen is you'll see what new episodes come about. So, otherwise, you know, you'd have to come back through. So even if it might seem a little overwhelming at first to, like I said, maybe 5 rheumatology ones or something, it doesn't mean you have to listen to them, but at least you'll see when they're new, or, you know, MSL talk, for example.
So you'll see when new episodes are available. So I would subscribe, and then just get in the habit of, you know, maybe every set of put it on your calendar for every 2 weeks. Just do a quick search in listen notes.com for your therapeutic area because what will happen is you can filter it by time. So you could say latest, and then it'll take you 2 minutes to look and see anything new that I should be listened to.
And what will happen is right under the title, it'll say who the host is, who the, guest is. So you can pick out right away if I can see, okay. Like I said, I gave the Dave David Hunter example. I can see he's interviewing, you know, another top expert. Oh, I'm gonna, you know, tune in right away. So that way you get it timely and you're not saying I heard you 6 months ago, which is not a bad thing either. I don't think that there's nothing wrong with that.
But, you know, that way you're you're picking out your opinion leaders. And if you find one that's a host, you need to you should be a listener of it. That's my personal opinion. I agree. And I and, again, I don't I don't mean to be redundant. We talked about this already. But so I think it's really the engagement piece, I think, is really important as an action item.
So if you're an avid listener of let's just say it's a KOL that has a podcast, you have to assume that that person, he or she, is passionate about what they do and probably passionate about their podcast. I know I am. So when people reach out to me and either offer a a comment, a compliment, or if they offer a suggestion and say, hey, Tom. I really love your podcast. One of the things I'd love to hear about is if you can cover this topic.
I love that engagement, and I love the suggestions, and it really helps me direct. It really shapes the podcast. It helps me direct the initiatives for who my next guest is gonna be, what we're gonna talk about. So I personally appreciate the engagement. I have to imagine k Wells are gonna appreciate it as well if they're as passionate about it as I am. Yeah. I completely agree. And I did you just made me think of one additional step.
And if they have a podcast, most likely, they're promoting that podcast again, like, on LinkedIn and on Twitter. Yeah. So when they are doing episodes, you know, everybody wants to try to get, you know, I'll say likes or whatever however LinkedIn works, you know, you can have their your reaction, because then your stuff will show more, you know, that's the way that all of social works. So if you if you're continuing to like that, then that shows you know, and and follow it too.
So not only would you be able to follow, I keep bringing up David Hunter, but I'll just since I did, David Hunter, but also the Join Action Podcast. You would actually want to follow that on Twitter or LinkedIn too because they probably have a separate account for that. So that's my last little take home. No. But that's really it's really important stuff. I mean, everything that you're saying and, again, this is near and dear to my heart, so I love this topic. I could talk about it forever.
But it is true. And I'm not fishing for likes. When I when we talk about the engagement piece, I'm fishing for likes. But I do appreciate them. And I do wanna give a shout out to our international listeners because we actually have a huge following in Singapore, in Portugal, in France, and in Spain. So I just I wanna give a shout out to all my international listeners as well. Thank you for for listening and for engaging. But this was this was really helpful.
I think that people I I learned a lot just from talking to you in even though I'm kind of in this space to an extent, but I learned a lot too. And I love the idea about I really think it's important to kinda catalog, if you will, and kind of set this into your schedule, so to speak. I know that in conversations that I've had with people recently, I talked to a lot of MSL leaders that are actually starting to use this podcast as a bit of a, like, a a training tool, telling their MSLs, hey.
Listen to this episode. Listen to that episode. So I think that if depending on what podcast you're listening to, if it's educational, can also be a part of training. Yeah. I completely agree. And I can see where, you know, we're gonna be hiring later this year for MSLs, and I can see where people would definitely benefit if they're whether they're new or existing MSLs from your podcast.
And, you know, as a medical affairs team, we've actually picked certain episodes that have been really good about, like, a disease state topic, and we've listened to it together, in a virtual way this past year and then, you know, stalked it and then had, you know, commentary back and forth. So that's been really neat. Well, thank you. And, again, it's it's, it's just a testament to the awesome, awesome guests. It's not me.
It's it's the it's the it's the medium and it's the guests like yourself and and all the other folks that have come on. So I, I'm grateful. I'm grateful for you. Any last words of advice? So what are you gonna be doing? So other than other than podcasting, what are you doing this summer? What are you doing for fun? Yeah. That's a really good question. I've got, 3 kids and a husband and 3 dogs, so they keep me pretty busy.
We're doing a little bit of traveling and starting to travel back for work too. So just kinda balancing all that and, you know, just enjoying every day. You know, I we had a great year as a family, but we're really excited to, like, get back to some normalcy and just spend time with our extended family and whatnot. But That's awesome. But, yeah, the last thing I'll say about podcasts is they're totally free too.
I think, you know, people know that from your podcast, but you forget that you have all these other ones. You know, that it's I mean, it's literally information that what why not try it? So And they're so easy too. You just you you know, you put it you pop it in your phone, and, and you're good to go. You put your AirPods in, you pop it in your phone, and and you're good to go whether you're working out or you're in the car. You know, it's funny.
I talk to folks like friends of mine that are in the business, and they're like, oh, you know, I'm dying to listen to your podcast. I'm like, well, just subscribe. It's so easy. You subscribe to it, and then pick out the episode you wanna listen to, and it's real simple. So, again, I appreciate you. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for all your insights, and, and, you know, let's let's do this again. We'll have to think of another topic that we could talk about next time. Perfect. Thank you.
I appreciate the opportunity. So Awesome. And Alrighty. Thanks for the podcast. Yep. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Thanks for listening. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future, and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.