Hey, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Don Sandell. He is keynote speaker and best selling author and also the founder of Go Positive. He's also a peak performance coach, and we talked today about how to adopt a positive mindset and shift your thought process for better and more positive outcomes. Don's awesome. I loved every second of this conversation. I think you guys are going to enjoy it. Don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn and Instagram and TikTok. I'm now on TikTok.
Check us out on YouTube. We put all the videos on YouTube, and tune in to MSL talk live, which is the 1st Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM EST, and that's on the LinkedIn live platform. Thank you for listening. I hope everyone enjoys this. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Good morning, Don. Welcome to the podcast, my friend. How are we doing today? Good morning, Tom. Doing great. Good to see you.
I'm so excited for this. I I'm I'm gonna have to try to contain my enthusiasm, because I love this topic. I love this stuff. I'm such a student of anything that has to do with positive psychology mindset. And that is your forte. So before we get I always like to tell people how I get my guests and how these these podcasts come to life. So before we get any too too far into it, guys, I had the opportunity, the pleasure really of of of meeting Don at a conference.
So Don was a keynote speaker at the MSL Society Conference. We met there. Actually, he's a friend of Paul Ward, who's been on this podcast a number of times. And I'm like, listen, dude. You have got to come on my podcast. So we're very fortunate to have him, and I'm I'm looking forward to digging into your book and into your go positive, company and and all that you do. So let's start with an introduction.
I'll let you introduce yourself, where you're from, and how you got started in all this stuff and all that good stuff. Well, thanks. Thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah. I've been in the corporate world for 30 plus years and loved it. Worked with some great people, some great organizations, but I kind of always knew that at some point, I was gonna kind of run my own show. Right? I had been there, done that, and I just fell in love just like you.
Just had this curiosity, this interest in positive psychology, and that was it. That was the topic that I knew that I was gonna end up kinda running my own show. So I've been running Go Positive for about 4 years, live just outside of Chicago in Arlington Heights. 2 kids, wife, and love what I'm doing. Just a great way to make a living. It's awesome. And so you wrote a book called positive mind shift, which I've had the pleasure of reading. I I highly recommend you guys checking this out.
And just so you know, in the announcements for LinkedIn and for all of everything from the announcements on Spotify to Apple, wherever you listen to this, I'm going to include the link. So if you guys just just look for it, you'll find it or go to Amazon. And the book is called Positive Mindshift, and it's Don Sandel, or Donald Sandel. It's s a n d e l. So guys, check it out. We're gonna talk about it today on this podcast, but you definitely wanna check it out.
So, Don, let's start with when I saw you speak live, you one of the things that resonated with me was some of the science behind your your book and behind some of the stuff you talk about, statistics. So why don't we start with that? I think that's a good way to kinda get into this topic.
Yeah. And and I really spend a lot of time on the science because I think that's really important because what I what I don't want people to think is that this, Tom, is just a social virtue that this is just a nice thing to do. While that while that is true, what really pulls people in when they understand the research and the neuroscience behind this, right, that that our physiology literally changes when we shift to a mindset.
That that is really important, really powerful, and that takes some of the naysayers and they go, wait. Holy. So you're saying my physiology changes, and it does in such a way that it helps us produce these positive outcomes. Right?
So that's very important that I spend a little bit of time whether I'm keynoting, whether it's a workshop, or in the book that I spend time helping people understand that this is so powerful that our physiology changes, our brains change, our guts change, our neurons change, our blood changes, our chemical changes, even our tissue changes all in the service of creating predictable positive outcomes. And it changes to the positive or to the negative depending on where your mindset is. Correct?
Right. Right. Right. Absolutely. So when we make that shift to a positive mindset, we get a release of certain neurochemicals, right, neuropeptides, neurotransmitters, and we call it DOSE. So the acronym is DOSE, so it's it's easily, recognizable and memorable, but it's dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins. We might get a little bit of GABA that gets released, but those are are some of the physiological changes that start this cascade of of biological transformation.
That's so important to understand, and and it is those physical changes that makes us different and makes us better. Right. Right. But one of the things that resonated with me is is you talked about not just in, you know, in the presentation, but also in your book about people have a negative bias. So our our brains are are we're we're already at a disadvantage because our brains go negative. We focus on the negative. So talk about that a little bit.
Yeah. No matter how positive you are, you have a negativity bias. We all do. Right? That's because our brain is is the primary function of our brain is our survival, not our life satisfaction, unfortunately. Right? The brain's focus is our survival. Right? So it's always out there looking for, threats, negativity, danger. Right? And and that's important, and we need a brain that does that.
But because that is still, part and parcel, the function of our brain, well, there's there's our negativity bias. Right? That when we see something, the brain is first evaluating, is this going to affect the survival of my human? Right? Right? So so we naturally are out there looking for it, and we see it sometimes maybe even if it isn't there.
But that's our negativity bias, and that is so strong and so pervasive that we actually need to be intentional about overcoming and pushing back on that negativity bias So then instead of having a negative default, we actually start to produce more of a positivity default. And how much of this I have to imagine that a lot of this comes with as as humans, we tend to live in the past or let the past affect us almost always in a negative way. How much of it is just dwelling on the past?
Well, yeah, our our perceptions, right, the way that we think our habits are based on what has happened in the past. And our brain, when something positive happens, the brain says, well, I can't really learn from that, so it's gone. But when something negative happens, the brain says, wait. Hold it. I I could learn from that. So it tends to store the negative into memory. So if I were to ask you, Tom, tell me about your your worst leader. Right?
Right away, you're you're gonna you're gonna have that person. You're gonna have that image. You're you're gonna have even that visceral response. Right. Right? But if I said, tell me about your most positive leader, it's it's not as easy as your brain bringing up the negative, bringing up that negative emotion. Yep. That's just the way our brains function. So I'm gonna cut to the chase. So how do we overcome this negativity bias?
How do we overcome the pattern of negative thoughts and living in the past? What is the what are some of the ways that we can use this positive mind shift that you talk about? Yeah. And in the book, we really take the reader by the hand Mhmm. And each chapter ends with a technique or an intervention or some sort of activity to start to push back on that negativity bias. So one of the key things is first to understand that we need to start doing this. Right? It's not just gonna happen.
So we need to start doing we need to be intentional, and being intentional, having our intention to shift that mindset is really that first foundational step. So my intention is to shift my Mindset and and to lead a more positive life. So so that's where it all begins But you'll also see you'll also see in the book, Tom, you probably saw this, that one of the first actions that I talk about is is this idea of deepening our relationships. You know, they've done multiple studies.
There's a great study out of Harvard. There is a longitudinal study where they followed the lives of almost a 1000 men. It started in the 19 thirties. So sorry, ladies, but that it was the 19 thirties. So they followed the lives of almost a 1,000 men for the totality of their lives.
And there's a number of great things that came out of this study, but one of the greatest things that came out of the study was, look, the thing that ultimately drives our happiness, that one thing that ultimately drives our happiness, no surprise, it is our relationships.
So one of the things that I promote and and and I encourage is that people really think about their relationships that, you know, you don't need 30, you don't need 50, you don't need dozens, but you need a couple of really good, authentic, trusting relationships. So we start there. Yeah. But then but then one of the other techniques, and this one's really important, researchers tell us that about 80% of our self talk, what we say to ourselves, our inner monologue, about 80% is negative.
Well, think about that for a second, that if 80% on average, our self talk is negative, what do you think our outcomes are gonna be? So so I encourage people to start paying more attention to their self talk, that inner model monologue. What are you telling yourself? Yeah. Right? In in changing that self talk and reframing it more to the positive. And and when you say self talk and you're because I I I totally agree with this, and I think a lot of people realize this.
The challenge is they don't take enough time to take action to do anything about it. So is it daily affirmations? What when you what what is what would be a good technique to do a better job in controlling your self talk? Yeah. You know, there's there's this term called metacognition. Mhmm. That is our ability to think about our thinking. Yeah. Right? The animals can't do it, but we can. Right? We can think about our thinking. So it really starts there. It's just being more present.
Okay. And really paying attention to your own thoughts. And you're going to if you do that, you're going to really got realize how often it's negative self talk. Yeah. So that's where it starts as metacognating, thinking and paying attention to your own thinking. But then when you catch yourself in negative self talk, you you you reframe it to to more positive. So you have to think about what you're thinking about. Yeah. Yeah. How how else are you gonna change it unless you're aware of it?
Yeah. And that comes with that that awareness and that self awareness and and being intentional. Yep. But, you know, for us to be more in the present and and, more intentional, it really helps for us to be more mindful. Yeah. Now, of course, in the last 15, 20 years, this idea of mindfulness being where your feet are, being more self aware, right, has has just, like, mushroomed. It's it's Yeah. Really incredible and really, really powerful.
Well, that's certainly one technique is being more mindful, doing more meditation, but really just having that attention to to pay more attention to your self talk. And I think people think this is harder than it is. Don't don't freak yourself out into thinking that you need to be a meditation expert to start meditating. Right? Am I right? Or it's it's pretty easy. Right? It's just a matter of maybe just Tom, you are so right. It is so easy, but I will say this. Here's my parenthetical on that.
That it's a little bit like working a muscle or working a new exercise technique or something new as an athlete. Right? Is technique or something new as an athlete, right, is that when you first meditate, you're gonna have your brain flooded with all these external factors when when you first meditate, and that is going to make you hesitant to keep trying it. But as you do it more, you get better at just not paying attention to those external factors that come in.
Yep. Listening to the externals, and and eventually, you won't even pay attention to it, and you'll really start to own your own mind and your own thoughts, and that's when it becomes really powerful. So don't get discouraged when you first try meditating and being more mindful that, yeah, things are gonna come. Don't feed that monster. Don't pay attention to it. Just keep focusing on those positive thoughts. And what would you say?
Start with, like, a 15 minute quiet yourself, turn your phone off, get put your phone in another room, just find a good 15 minutes, maybe get in your car if you're at work or in the morning before you even start your day. What would you recommend? Yeah. In in in 15 minutes sounds like a short amount of time, but for for people new to it, that's gonna seem pretty long. So I would say even start look. Just start by before or after an important form phone call.
Yeah. Just before or something that's important to you or something that you're excited about. Just paying attention to your breathing. Breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth and just calm yourself by just spending a little bit of time paying attention to your breathing. Yeah. If you did that and just did that for a couple of minutes, I I do that all the time with with clients. I'll do it in webinars. I'll I'll do it from the stage.
And I'll just say, breathe in and then breathe out. And we'll just do that a couple of times. And people go, we just did that for a couple of moments, and I feel great already. But but the power is that eventually you get better at it, but you gain back control of your own mind. Right. Right. No. It's so I'll tell you. It's so powerful, and you did it when, you know, live when when, you know, we went to see you speak.
So it it definitely with thousands of people in the audience, and it's really powerful. And you have this contagion that happens, Tom. Yeah. That everybody's in this kind of better place. And and, and it also opens up the learning centers of of the mind. So, like, when I when I do a workshop, I will start people by look. Gain back control of your own mind. Do these breathing exercise. Do a quick exercise that just gets the blood going. And, man, are they ready for the rest of the learning?
Yeah. Yeah. No. It's a great way to to and you you know, and again, your book is about positive mind shift, you know, and and how to shift from, you know, maybe that negative, you know, negativity bias or what or whatever situation you're in and just try to trigger into the positive. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. I was just gonna say, if if there might be some skeptics out there who feel, oh, this is just a nice to do. Yeah. Again again, this is just a social virtue.
But think about this, that if you can really shift, you can do that positive mind shift and more often gain this new circuitry where your new habit is defaulting to the positive. Think about how that's going to affect your outcomes, how that's going to affect your health and your well-being, how that's going to affect your relationships. It's really that simple, but yet that profound. And you talk about how positivity creates better outcomes, and it also creates better health.
So talk about that a little bit. Yeah. That's where some of the research is really, really moving that when we shift to this positive mindset that we here's one of the things. We create new neurons. We we boost our our mood. We improve our blood pressure. We mitigate pain. All of it, we we lead longer lives. We lead healthier lives, and that's not just me saying it. The Yeah. The research is irrefutable.
In fact, there's some research that says that if you do this and you shift your mind to a more positive mindset, and that's how you lead your life, that is better than stops, stopping smoking or stopping drinking. It's that it's that, significant of a physical change. There's a lot of smokers and drinkers out there that are like, yeah, man. I could keep drinking and smoking. Now, Getting back on track here. So I'm gonna ask you this question. You're gonna this is gonna sound crazy.
So would you say happiness is a choice? Yeah. The yes. Overall, it is. You wanna increase your happiness, you need to choose to do so. Right? Mhmm. But but there's there's, again, some really interesting research about, you know, is there a happiness set point, and and where is it related to? So this is what the research tells us is that, about 50% of our happiness is determined by genetics. K? Wow. But but don't let that lose hope. Either positive or not positive, don't let that lose hope.
10% is life circumstances. Okay? And you would think that it would be higher than that, but the research tells us that, you know, for instance, life circumstance, you get a promotion at at work. Mhmm. Awesome. Congratulations. Does that increase your happiness? Yes. But for the short term. Mhmm. Right? But the rest, about 40%, is up to that choice, up to our intentions, up to our own behaviors and actions. So is 40% the same as 90%? No. It's not. But it's still 40%. Right.
So your positive emotions that get released because of your happiness, 40% is up to your intention and and your choices. And it's a matter of almost and I I know it's gonna sound like, it's almost you're you have to learn how to practice this. This is a habit. This is a practice. This is the the the the triggers and the mind shifts that we're talking about.
You saying using the word intentional, which, by the way, I did a podcast on intentions, one of my most downloaded episodes, my podcast on intentions. Again, guys, I believe in all this stuff. I practice all this stuff. It's this has to be habitual in order for it to work. Yes or yes or no? Yeah. It has to be habitual and choose the new actions that you really like, that you love, that you can't wait to do.
Because if you should and there are dozens of of techniques and actions and new behaviors that you can you can start. But if you choose the ones that are laborious, that you don't really enjoy, of course, you won't really stick to it. So it's really key that with some of the interventions that you choose, that there are interventions that you really look forward to doing it because then you'll you'll increase the probability of perpetuating these new behaviors before they become habits.
Mhmm. So choose choose the habits that's the new habits that, that you really enjoy so that you'll keep doing it. And I'll add this. So this is the thing. Use technology to your advantage. Yeah. And most of us use either, Google Calendar or use Microsoft Outlook. I use Microsoft Outlook mostly, and I have recurrent events that I put within my calendar as reminders to do some of these things. Right? For instance, meditation, reminder to do it every single day. Right?
Now when that reminder pops up, do do I do it right then? No. But it reminds me to make sure that I do it that day. Reconnecting with people. Right? Oh, that's right. I was gonna call Bob this week, make sure that I call Bob this week. Right? But use technology to your advantage. I'm always put I'm always telling Alexa to remind me of things. Right?
And if there's somebody that I really wanna connect with, then then shout out to Alexa, but use technology to your advantage to help perpetuate these new habits and actions. Yep. No doubt. Especially well, you know, and I don't know if this this always needs to be in the calendar or if you just make it a daily and weekly habit.
But the physical part of of bringing your mind to the right place, meaning working out regularly, to me has had the most profound effect on my mood, on my happiness, and my positivity. I work out every day. I very, very rarely miss. Yeah. And it's changed everything for me. How much is the physical part of it important in this? I'm glad you brought that out up in the book again. I talk about taking your meds. Mhmm. Yeah. I and I don't mean pharmaceuticals.
Yeah. Yeah. If they work for you, by all means, absolutely. But meds is an acronym for meditation, exercise, diet, and sleep. Yep. Meds. Meditation, exercise, diet, and sleep. Take your meds. Yep. But with exercise, I love it that you brought that up because exercise is so important because that connection between mind and body is a real thing. Right? Irrefutable, that that is a real thing. But exercise is the best way for you, the number one way to build new neurons. Right?
It is the number one way to boost your your mood. Yeah. Think about it. You exercise, how do you feel when you're done exercise? $1,000,000. You feel a $1,000,000 and that's not by accident. Right? That is our body helping us to crave the release of these chemicals. Right? The body wants us to crave doing beneficial behaviors. So when we exercise, we get a release of those dose chemicals. We get a release, doxy dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins. We get a release of those. Right?
And that's why our mood improves. So people who are dealing with anxiety, people who are dealing even with some depression, they're just in a funk. Yep. So with a lot of the people, I do a lot of performance coaching, and a lot of that, one of the main things almost to a person that I coach, one of the things that we talk about is increasing exercise. Yep. Just because of the physical change, yes. But the psychoemotional change is really, really moving. Totally agree.
It's actually it was one of my favorite parts of the book because I firmly believe that it's hard to feel good about yourself when you don't feel good about yourself. Yeah. Right? How are you gonna feel good about yourself when you don't feel good about yourself? So if you eat like crap, if you're not working out, if you feel like you're out of shape, if you're not sleeping well and you're you're not taking your meds as you just did it Yeah. Then you don't feel good about yourself.
So now it becomes even more challenging to convince yourself through self talk, through meditation. It makes that part of it harder. So if you actually, like you say, take your meds, get some good sleep, exercise, hydrate, meditate, eat well, and you do all the and you have a habitual weekly pattern and routine of doing these things, you're gonna position yourself to make this so much easier. Yeah. You create that foundation that becomes a multiplier for everything else. Exactly. Right?
And it doesn't have to be that difficult. Yep. Right? And here's one of the things that really helps is that I've I've got friends. I've got my spouse. I've got my kids. These people that surround me, that if we all start to seek this change. Mhmm. And we encourage it in each other. My wife and I are actually really good about pushing back and encouraging each other with the language that we use or the self talk that becomes external talk.
Yeah. And and if we start griping and being negative, that we will make each other aware of that in an encouraging way, but did you, you know, did did you know that for the last 5 minutes, you were just grousy? How did and we asked the question, how did that serve you? Yeah. How did that serve you? And if it doesn't serve you, well, then by all means, stop doing it. Real quick about habits. Yeah. Right? Habits are really brain circuitry. It's the neural maps in our brain that we keep doing.
Right? And the best way to break your habits is not really doing battle against the current habit, but just replace that old habit with something better. Yep. Right? I'll give you a for instance what you'll appreciate this time when I was on the golf course, and and I I love golfing, but I'm not a very good golfer. I love golfing. And I would be that guy on the golf course, cursing after shots. But then when I was on one fairway and I heard a guy on another fairway cursing, I go, oh my god.
That sounded horrible. I said, I have to stop that. Yeah. Right? So in place, instead of doing battle against those curse words, I replaced them with other words. It became so simple to stop that. Right? So so in terms of changing our circuitry, don't do battle against the bad habit, but just create new healthier habits that eventually will overcome those bad habits. That's awesome. I love that. And I I I don't want I wanna get back to what you said.
I think it's so important to try to surround yourself with the right people and get other people on board with this. Because what happens a lot of times, you know, it's the old misery loves company. You have a long day. You get home from work, and, you know, you're tired, and your spouse starts to complain about something. So what happens? You start to complain about something. And now it's just this big pity party, and you're bringing yourself down. Right?
So what you're saying is that you and your spouse hold each other accountable to not go down this negative spiral rabbit hole of negativity and try to change that the the dynamic when it comes up. Yeah. And it it's a little bit like exercise. You know, when you exercise and you have a partner that you exercise with Yeah. You exercise more and harder and longer because you don't wanna let that person down. You know? Yeah. It is the same thing with our behavior. It's so good.
You know, the old the old, adage that we are, the 5 people that we hang out most. Yeah. Right? Now are we flawed? Do we still make mistakes? And do I still have negative days and negative moments? By all means, of course, I do. And this is an important point, Tom. We're not asking people to be to be happy and positive and optimistic every single moment of their lives. That's not reality. That's not what life is. We still are gonna have bad days. Sure. It's not what happens to us.
Mhmm. It's what we tell ourselves about what happens to us. So change that inner monologue, have that intention, take your meds, do your exercise, and hang around people that are really gonna boost your spirits as opposed to mitigating your spirits. So good. So good. I I'm at listen. I I we've been talking, like, 30 minutes. I could talk for another hour. I mean and I just I love all of this. I hope that everybody buys your book.
And even even if you just incorporated some of this stuff, it will have an impact. You talk a lot about outcomes, and the outcomes of this, and the science behind it. This stuff really does work. We're not just this isn't just, hey, look at yourself in the mirror and smile and just, you know, be happy. And there's there's real research behind this, guys. And most of the people that listen to this podcast are scientific. You're scientific folks. Right. For sure. You know?
So that's why I thought that this was great. I do wanna ask you if and and if you could, the one thing I did love about the book was the stories. There were some great stories. So I wanted to ask you, which one of your favorite stories or what story do you like to tell as it relates to some of the stuff we're talking about? Well, my my neighbor who lives across the street, and it's kind of a long story, but I'll make it really quick, is that I hadn't seen him in a while.
And and finally, when I saw him outside, I I went over to say hello, and and he wasn't the same guy. He looked really, really different. In fact, he looked sick. And it turns out that he had stage 4 throat cancer. Oh, no. Again, long story short, great guy, big Jim, still lives across the street. We lived across from each other for decades, and and he was this ex cop. Right?
So think about kind of having a, a defensive posture and a negative mindset because he really was surrounded in his job by negativity and danger. Right? So so he ends up getting stage 4 throat cancer, and one of the and and months later, I saw him again, and he had this great news. He said that he had full fully recovered, that the that the tumors were gone. Really a great wonderful story.
And I remember asking big Jim, I said, well, what do you what was the key to to this this this great outcome? And he said, first, I had great doctors, great medical care, right, first, but it had had to have been my mindset because every night when when I get up and I'd have to take my medication, I would sit down in my chair in the living room, and I would just think positive thoughts.
And the fact that this guy had a had really his whole career with this kind of negative posturing surrounded by threats and danger, but he found a way to change his mindset that actually and the research will support this. He was a be able to mitigate pain and change his body.
Now I'm not saying that the whole situation of Big Jim and his change was because of positive mindset, but there's enough research and data that says, yeah, but I bet you that played into it, that he actually was able to affect his outcomes by his mindset. That is a powerful story. And when he told me the story and it came from him, it was really powerful the way he changed his outcomes. But but we can all experience that.
We can all experience better outcomes because a positive mind shift produces predictable positive outcomes. And if that's true, we'd be crazy not to try it. Let's try it, man. I'm on board. I'm fired up. I'm serious. I love that story, and, and that's a great way to to kinda to wrap this up. Don, thank you for joining us. I really appreciate it. I hope that this was able to help a lot of people. It's helped me, I could tell you. And I practice a lot of this stuff, but I learned a lot from you.
I'm grateful that we have become friends. And if there's ever anything I can do for you, please let me know. But I really hope that this is something that a lot of people get a lot out of. Thanks, Tom. So nice to connect with you. Thank you for your time. Alrighty, man. Come back again soon. You bet. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment.
Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.